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TheRainbowConnection
QUOTE(ehxhfdl14 @ Nov 4 2007, 07:41 AM) *
I'm not sure it came up yet, but a bionic arm that can perform 25 joint motions(real arm can do 30)was invented. The wearer could play the piano, if they wished. It's not on the market yet, but the team is considering implanting electrodes directly on nerves—or in the brain itself—to achieve more natural neural control by 2009. It's mind-controlled. The scientists made it look like a human arm(skin covering), and kept it under seven pounds. It was costly, for sure($55 million), but heck, it's a big step forward.

I read it on PopSci, and found the article here:
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/5d...ecbccdrcrd.html

Oh, that's really cool. Didn't know that muscle contractions in the shoulder would be fine enough to differentiate between different finger movements.

Thanks for sharing!
Chiisana
Now I didn't read entire discussion.

Experiencing extreme pain is not actually a 'surprise' since FMA already did told us the pain is unbearable. Beside, it's easy to imagine that too.

I think having automail in real world would be cool, but of course it's the person's right to chose if he/she want it or not. Especially because it's this painful.

But having it on animal, I'm not sure of that. It kinda sounds like I look down at the animal, but it's because we do not understand their language. Thus we don't know if they want it or not. And I'm glad the cat did manage to walk like nothing happened (?). It would be extremely cruel if the cat wouldn't be able to go after all the pains...
Fujihakama
Who would've thought.....
SH_Jack
Hey guys, I got an article in the email I thought you might be interested in happy.gif here's the source:

Newswise: Science Extends Reach of Prosthetic Arms
QUOTE
Newswise — Motorized prosthetic arms can help amputees regain some function, but these devices take time to learn to use and are limited in the number of movements they provide.

Todd A. Kuiken, M.D., Ph.D., a physiatrist at the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago and professor at Northwestern University, has pioneered a technique known as targeted muscle reinnervation (TMR), which allows a prosthetic arm to respond directly to the brain’s signals, making it much easier to use than traditional motorized prosthetics. This technique, still under development, allows wearers to open and close their artificial hands and bend and straighten their artificial elbows nearly as naturally as their own arms.

“The idea is that when you lose your arm, you lose the motors, the muscles and the structural elements of the bones,” Kuiken explained. “But the control information should still be there in the residual nerves.” He decided to take the residual nerves, which once carried the commands from the brain to produce arm, wrist and hand movements, and connect them to the chest muscles so that the signals can be used to move the artificial limb.

Nearly a dozen patients who have undergone TMR so far have motorized prosthetic arms that produce two arm movements: open and close hand and bend and straighten elbow. But in a new study from the Journal of Neurophysiology, published by The American Physiological Society, Kuiken and his colleagues demonstrate that TMR has the potential to provide an even greater number of arm and hand movements, beyond the four they’ve already achieved. The researchers have begun work with two U.S. Army medical centers to help soldiers who have lost limbs.

The study, entitled “Decoding a new neural-machine interface for control of artificial limbs,” was conducted by Ping Zhou, Madeleine M. Lowery, Kevin B. Englehart, He Huang, Guanglin Li, Levi Hargrove, Julius P.A. Dewald and Kuiken, all of Northwestern University and the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago. Hargrove is also affiliated with the University of New Brunswick, Canada and Lowery is also affiliated with University College Dublin, Ireland.

Redirects nerves

Kuiken first got the idea for TMR when he was a graduate student during the 1980s. In his first patient, Kuiken took four nerves that had gone to the amputated arm and redirected them to the patient’s chest muscles. As a result, when the patient wants to close his hand – a hand that is no longer there – the impulse travels down the nerve, into his chest and causes the chest muscle to contract.

The next step was to use the muscle contraction in the chest to move the prosthetic arm. This was accomplished with the help of an electromyogram (EMG), which picks up the electrical signal that the muscle emits when it contracts.

The signal is directed to a microprocessor in the artificial arm which decodes the signal and tells the arm what to do. In their work thus far, Kuiken and his colleagues have programmed the processor in the prosthetic arm to recognize four signals to produce two arm movements: open and close hand and bend and straighten elbow.

The result? When the patient thinks ‘close hand’ the hand closes. Contrast this with current motorized prosthetic arm technology: The patient has to learn to use new muscle groups to move the prosthetic arm; can perform only one movement at a time; and must contract two muscles at once to achieve a new movement.

“It’s not very common to flex your chest muscle to close your hand or bend your wrist,” said Kuiken. “Quite frankly, most people with a unilateral shoulder disarticulation amputation don’t wear a prosthesis at all: It’s just too cumbersome.”

More moves

While TMR is more intuitive and natural, Kuiken and his team wanted to see if they could extract more of the wealth of information from the electrical signals produced by the nerves and chest muscles and harness it to provide a greater number of hand and arm movements.

In the study published in the Journal of Neurophysiology, they placed between 79-128 electrodes from the EMG onto the chest muscles of five patients to see if they could identify the unique EMG patterns emitted with 16 different elbow, wrist, hand, thumb and finger movements they asked the patients to perform. The EMG signals from each of the 16 movements were analyzed using advanced signal processing techniques. The study found that the researchers could recognize the signals associated with the different arm movements with 95% accuracy.

The next step is to use this information to program these new moves into the microprocessor of the artificial arm, so that instead of just opening and closing a hand and bending and straightening an elbow, now the signals can produce various hand grasp patterns, such as the one needed to hold a baseball, pick up a pen or grasp a tool.

May benefit soldiers

Kuiken and his colleagues have begun to work with the military at Brooke Army Medical Center at Fort Sam Houston in Texas and the Walter Reed Army Hospital in Washington, D.C. to apply this technology to soldiers who have lost limbs.

“We’re excited to move forward in doing this surgery with our soldiers some day,” he said. “We’ve been able to demonstrate remarkable control of artificial limbs and it’s an exciting neural machine interface that provides a lot of hope.”

There are a couple of additional things to note in the work of Kuiken and his colleagues: They performed nerve transfer surgery 9-15 months after the injury that led to amputation, showing that these neural pathways remain intact, even when they have not been used for awhile.

Also, when the researchers touch these patients on their chests, the patients say it feels like they are being touched somewhere on their arm or hand -- the arm or hand that is no longer there. That’s not really surprising, because the brain receives an impulse from a nerve that used to go to the arm. The brain doesn’t know the nerve is now embedded in a different muscle, and interprets this touch as it always has.

Editor’s Notes: An audio version of this story will appear on Life Lines, the podcast of The American Physiological Society. You can find it on Nov. 12 at www.lifelines.tv.

Physiology is the study of how molecules, cells, tissues and organs function to create health or disease. The American Physiological Society (APS) has been an integral part of this scientific discovery process since it was established in 1887.
billyswong
Reply to the above article post:

Close, but still missing the elegance of automail in FMA. The scientist mentioned in the article connect nerve to existing muscle in chest, and the prosthetic arm "read" the chest muscle contraction. Unlike direct nerve connection hinted in FMA, their technology intrincally provide no mechanism available for signal feedback from arm to brain. The feeling of the arm's position and posture, a condition which prelude all fancy power of automail in FMA, will never be there unless they started investigate how to feed signal from arm to the nerve.

Will the automail in FMA ever come true in my lifetime? Ok, one can always dream.
Chiisana
Let's see it in opposite way. What if Hiromu Arakawa actually got her idea from these articles instead? I don't think she would be able to think of this all by herself?
billyswong
~Automail Closer To Reality ("readies For Clinical Trials"!), "18 degrees of freedom..." "rerouting amputees’ nerve... ~


An exciting news on prosthetic arm. http://spectrum.ieee.org/feb08/5957

QUOTE
...If all goes well, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration gives its approval, returning veterans could be wearing the new artificial limb by next year...
...a human arm has 22 degrees of freedom, not three. The Luke Arm prosthetic is agile because of the fine motor control imparted by the enormous amount of circuitry inside the arm, which enables 18 degrees of freedom...
...Deka engineers modeled the arm based on the weight of a statistically average female arm (about 3.6 kg), including all the electronics and the lithium battery...
...When a Deka engineer tests the arm via a linked exoskeleton, the arm can replicate almost every subtlety of human movement...
...neuroscientist Todd Kuiken has had recent successes in surgically rerouting amputees’ residual nerves—which connect the upper spinal cord to the 70 000 nerve fibers in the arm—to impart the ability to “feel” the stimulation of a phantom limb... With Kuiken’s surgery, a user can control the Luke arm with his or her own muscles, as if the arm were an extension of the person’s flesh...


Though I don't hope I will need it one day, all of these sound just wonderful.
Chiyo
Yea this is news that has been posted before, thank-you anyway.
EniviD EiraM
In my own opinion, I think that someday automails can help ..

I mean, they can be used for handicapped persons and set as replacement
for their missing body parts (like Ed) but automails should be used wisely ..
We can't also deny the fact that more handicapped person get depressed about their
condition so we should help ...

I actually want to see a REAL automail ..

weird ?

maybe but it's true smile.gif
Vagrant
~ So, It Looks Like Automail Is Almost Real, The 'Luke' prosthetic cyborg arm ~

I saw this on the Colbert Report:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-r...2010/dean-kamen
I have no idea how it works though.

People outside the US might not be able to watch it. Without using the Modify Headers Firefox plugin, anyway.

(note to mods: I had no idea where to put this topic since it applies to all the FMA media)
Tombow
Nice vid! smile.gif

We'll add this to Automail Really Can Work! thread in a while since the thread topics are very similar. ^^

Meantime, everyone please feel free to add your replies on this thread. smile.gif
deet-tastic
Wow. That is really amazing. The guy was holding chopsticks. Dude, I can't even do that. I look like a fool at chinese restaraunts. tongue.gif

Oh sure, credit Luke Skywalker. It's all about Elric baby.
ShadowCat17
That was amazing! I was a bit skeptical until they showed the video of the guy using it to eat, after just the first 10 hours of having it on! Looks like it has a lot of potential
Animeoldtimer
That's awesome! Dean Kamen also sponsors FIRST Lego League where kids get to build robots and compete. My sons do that and it's a great way to get started in the robotics world if anyone is interested.
FailToImpress
I can't see the video. boo.

real life automail would be so cool though, and helps lots of people.
Katya Martin
This stuff is really quite interesting. They've got some stuff working with nerve endings (like automail would lol), but also with direct brain control... they've also managed to graft prostheses right to the bone, too, so that people don't have to worry about limbs wiggling around or slipping out of place... and they're even managing to get some touch sensitivity working (so that you can tell how tightly you're holding something, for instance.) The motions aren't as good, though, mainly because the human hand is really zarking complicated.

More articles:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...ionic-hand.html
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/01/...fischman-text/5 (this one's really good)

It's really cool how they can help people with technology these days...

A Pierrot's Aria
The advances in technology are nothing short of amazing! This can give amputees such hope when perfected! biggrin.gif
Winry Chi
>//w//< SO COOL!!

And rather impressive I must say.. the next few years of technology advances could do that some good.. I would like to see it work with nerve endings as well....
Havanese
Oh wow, that's incredible. Thank you for posting the link.
Chiyo
FullmetalAlchemistElric and xHearter, I have moved your posts to the thread Does Equivalant Exchange Apply In Real Life?
Forsaken Love
Firstly, if that happened that's so crule to the cat it makes me sick, I'm against animal testing, and to test when it would cause the lifeform that much agoney, I'm actually surprised it was even legal and tbh im sceptical it even happened, are there any legitimate links around? XD I havn't heard of such a break through in prosthetics

To add to my sceptisim, not only do you have all the thing about the nerves and such to link, is that enough? In a real arm you have muscles that require energy to move them, did this thing have any sort of power supply? I didn't read all the replys so sozzle if thats been awnsered, and lastly, we have such a thing as anaesthetic so why was the cat concious when the nerves were been attatched? And in all practicality I can't see any cat staying still enough to undergo that sort of procedeure
Chiyo
Forsaken Love - one cat story right here. Though not the original story (this thread is years old remember) it is about a crippled cat being given the chance to walk again. This is NOT the same as the "auto-mail" story but its certainly about the developments they are making.
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