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Dark Alchemist Sakura
<Moving this from FMA Anime forum to FMA Character Discussion forum. 02/19/07 ~Tombow>

I suppose many characters before have been accused by being a Mary Sue. But seeing as we got a fanfiction area that basically discourages writers to put Mary Sue in, I can see where some people are like, "Well, Ed is contradicting that...."

If you go to this wonderful Wikipedia article (yeah I do wiki all the time) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue_(popular_culture)

You see in the list of Male Mary Sues that Edward is one of them. This poses an interesting and actually pretty controversial question? Is Edward a mary sue/harry stu/airy oo???

I am not saying, by the way, that Edward is necessarily a Mary Sue. Although he has many of the traits as one, he does one thing that no Mary Sue ever does: he GROWS. While most Mary Sues stay in their state, because obviously they can't grow spiritually because they are oh so perfect and experienced, Edward starts out as a naiive kid, and grows into a mature young adult. He is a sheltered kid in a small town who does not know the evils of the world, and has a quite rosy view of it until he joins the military. Although he takes a long time to adapt to this new view, in the end, he does it. And that is only one aspect of his personality.

So, what are your views on Edward as a Mary Sue?

EDIT: I don't know whether this should be in the fanfic section or in the anime section. If you want me to put it in the fanfic section, I'll more than gladly do it. Just tell me ^^
Automne
Ed as a Gary-Stue? Now, that's a new.

I'll say not, even if he indeed has got some characteristics like the angsty background, good looks, etc, which is very common, normally for almost all the main anime characters, so the author of this article has forgotten quite a lot.

First, it looks like Mary-Sues/Gary-Stues are good at everything, while we only know Ed is good at alchemy, not everything. And we all know Ed is not so mature, hell, he sometimes acts like the most immature kid I've ever seen, while Mary-sues/Gary-Stues always seem to know everything and always take the good decisions.

Normally, Mary-Sues/Gary-Stues are always sweet, friendly, forgivable, etc, while Ed is definitly...not always like that. And Ed does not seem so interested in love to begin with, while Mary-Sues/Gary-Stues are most of the time always in love.

So I'll say Ed acts most of the time like a boy his age (and what you said is true, he grows as well)? and concerning his incredible knowledge of alchemy, well, everyone has got their strong points and their weak ones. And I'm sure Ed certainly has got some also.

Well, it's not so good but I'm tired, and I'm sure someone else can defend him better than me. And, yes, I do think it should be in the fanfic section. smile.gif
Toby-Chan
Ed is far too flawed.

I've seen that article before. Since it's Wikipedia, and anyone who wants to edit it can, they can add whoever they please to that list. Really, every character could be called a Sue/stu, but that turns into a weak argument after a while when you dole out the label like free stickers.

I'd say the stu quality probably comes in with the fact that he was a prodigy and did some amazing things at his young age like enter the military.

However he has far too many flaws and mistakes he's made to be called a stu.

(Side Note- InuYasha as a Gary Stu? HA! That's a new one! *sporfle* I think people are becoming way too confused with this definition. Inuyasha is a blatant idiot for one thing...)

I wonder why Kenshin isn't there... (Loves Kenshin, but realizes he fits the profile more)
Chiyo
A Mary-Sue type character? Yes, that short, fowl tempered, doesn't care about much but alchemy boy is most certainly is.

Did a fan-girl suggest they add Ed to the list? Only they wouldn't see he is flawed. Then again you could question quite a few on that list, Mary-Sue is usually a creation of a fiction writer.
Katana Alchemist
I always thought a Mary Sue was a character with such powerful abilities that all others pale in comparison. Perhaps this person did as well. It's true that Ed is the most powerful alchemist is the series but he's far from unchallenged. I would prefer if he had more balanced fights throughout the show but he had plenty of good ones anyway.

Besides, a Mary-Sue is not always a bad thing. I can think of a certain lanky cowboy with puffy hair and a blue leisure suit that knows jeet kun do that is undoubtedly my favorite anime character of all time...
Toby-Chan
Most powerful alchemist in the series?

I'd say Hohenheim and Dante easily beat him.
FullmetalRaptor
Oh, for the love of..! Ed, a sue? Don't make me laugh! How could anyone accuse Edward Elric of being a sue? He actually makes mistakes, he loses his temper over the dumbest things, he has to learn and grow, and I've never seen any character that can actually qualify as a sue that has even 1/100th the depth of character that he has. Obviously, someone just looked at the fact that he's a child prodigy and accused him of being a sue just to get tempers raised (completely despite the fact that child prodigy's do actually exist). Honestly, can't a protagonist be highly skilled without being accused of being a sue anymore? There are a real life people who would be referred as "Mary Sues" or "Larry Stus", if they appeared in a story.
Melxitm
Ok, i feel stupid for asking this, but what exactly is Mary Sue? Is it like... someone whom is flawless in almost all they do? Cause thats what Im getting right now. huh.gif
ed's numbuh 1 fan
just click on the Wikipedia link on the first post



Edward a mary sue huh.gif naaaah , it never accured to me that people thought he was ^^;
though i definatly don't think he is, he may be talented and such but a Mary Sue/Stu is'nt like Edward at all
darker_element
QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 20 2006, 10:34 PM) [snapback]398580[/snapback]

Most powerful alchemist in the series?

I'd say Hohenheim and Dante easily beat him.


[spoiler] Well, he survived both the series AND the movie. I guess he wins by default... [/spoiler]
Toby-Chan
QUOTE(darker_element @ Jun 15 2006, 02:29 PM) [snapback]412314[/snapback]

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 20 2006, 10:34 PM) [snapback]398580[/snapback]

Most powerful alchemist in the series?

I'd say Hohenheim and Dante easily beat him.


[spoiler] Well, he survived both the series AND the movie. I guess he wins by default... [/spoiler]


Surviving doesn't determine alchemic skill.

[spoiler] Besides, Hohenheim's death was voluntary. [/spoiler]
Envy's lil' miniskirt
Someone must have edited that list because Ed is no longer on there.

I still disagree with parts of the article. I thought the concept of Mary Sue/Gary Stu only existed in fan fiction where the author inserts an idealized version of him or herself into the story to be close to the main characters of thier favorite show.

This article accuses well know Tv shows of making Mary Sues but I don't think it's the same thing. It's common for authors to put a bit of themselves into their characters but I don't believe it automatically makes the character a Mary Sue.
Automne
Still, some characters from fandoms are truly Mary-sue/Gary-stue-ish and deserve to be up there. Riza Hawkeye from the manga for example (or maybe she already is?), even though some of her aspects are a bit shadowy, has got a a good deal of similarities, IMO.
FullmetalRaptor
Hawkeye is a professional trained soldier who takes her job seriously, there are people out there in real life in the military who are like Riza, so she can't be a Sue either.

By that logic, Super-Man is a Mary Sue, as is Aragorn from the LotR books. Come on! Lighten up! Mary Sue should be fanfiction exclusive only. Don't bring canon characters into it.
Automne
QUOTE(FullmetalRaptor Posted Today @ 05:53 PM)
Hawkeye is a professional trained soldier who takes her job seriously, there are people out there in real life in the military who are like Riza

Duh! No kidding!

Anyway, I don't think it should be fanfictions only, because these characters are themselves original and coming from someone's mind already if you think about it. I know many authors, wether it be novel authors or manga authors, often want one or many of their characters to be near perfect; this is in no way something rare. I don't know if Arakawa showed us in depths the personality of Hawkeye, not that I mind or care, but she does present Sue points.

I'll maybe edit this post later and will add a link mostly relating to this.
Keoni
well, Don't they all have a bit of Mary Sue in them?
I mean, sure, Edward does (parents unusual eyecolor, parents, prodigy, bad temper), Riza does (again the parents, exceptional sharp shooter) But if you think about it couldn't you find the same points for both Roy and Alphonse? Or Armstrong? Not to mention Winry or even Bradley. happy.gif

I think every character has a bit of Mary in him/her
Ailuro
If they only have a little, that isn't really a Mary-Sue. Everyone has talent at something.
Automne
Indeed, Aily.
Hyugafalcon
If this Mary Sue-ness definition applied to real life, more than half of my friends would be considered Sues because at least one of them has a 4.0, a lot of friends, a good personality, and good artistic talents. Geez! If you wanted to make the anti-Sue Fullmetal Alchemist, you'd have to make them all white trash with mediocricity written all over everything!
Automne
Geez! Go read the frickin' article!
Hyugafalcon
I did... the whole thing twice.
Automne
And it does not seem like it. I remember this article being pretty complete, and many other posts in this thread have explained the Sue/Stue problem as well - what does and does not make a Sue. Everyone has specific talents, a personality with flaws and qualities, etc. A Sue/Stue is something else.

Anyway, I'll just link to that.
Dark Alchemist Sakura
QUOTE(FullmetalRaptor @ Jun 17 2006, 07:53 PM) [snapback]413179[/snapback]

Hawkeye is a professional trained soldier who takes her job seriously, there are people out there in real life in the military who are like Riza, so she can't be a Sue either.

By that logic, Super-Man is a Mary Sue, as is Aragorn from the LotR books. Come on! Lighten up! Mary Sue should be fanfiction exclusive only. Don't bring canon characters into it.



Well.... I'm pretty guilty of making a Mary Sue.... in an original story. Since then, I've scrapped it, but it pretty much proves that Mary Sues exist everywhere. I sorta believe mary sues are anyone who sickens the reader with her perfectness. Therefore, Spiderman with his awkwardness with girls makes him not a mary sue. As for Aragorn.... well, in my point of view, LoTR is more of that "fairie tale" thematic kind of story, where the characters are supposed to be like that to keep the story going. At least that's my point of view. Because then, most of the characters in LoTR would be Mary Sues..... XD

But Hawkeye is not really a mary sue. Anybody could get to her level if they practiced enough. Just look at the Olympics in shooting.... *falls over* Although I do have to agree that Hawkeye is getting overboard with the angst in the manga....
Those guys are amazing....
fmaPHSYCO
o.O Ed? A mary sue? No bloody way! He's not perfect...There are just so many flaws about him that makes him faaar from a Mary Sue....

But if Ed's a Mary Sue, wouldn't that just about make everyone else a Mary Sue?
blubbernuggetalchemist
i just felt lazy, so i didnt even bother to read what a mary sue is. i just dont think ed is one.
Tombow
Moving this from FMA Anime forum to FMA Character Discussion forum.
LoMXD
Well peoepls version of Mary-sues can be different, and the person who wrote that article might have a different veiw on it. personally, I don't think ed is a mary-sue.
angelstar2408
I don't think Ed is a mary-sue.....

If you think about it, Ed has been through a lot of terrible situations like loosing an arm and a leg.....
Loosing the body of Al...... having a hard time on getting their bodies back... losing a mom who is very dear to him..... and many other stuff....

I think Arakawa did a really good job on making the characters equal when it comes to burdens and talents.... biggrin.gif

And I think in the first place a character can be a mary-sue to other people and not be one when it comes to others.... It's pretty much on the perspective. smile.gif
Misty- Nala
Edward is totally a Mary-Gary-Harry- traditional character, whatever you want to call it.
List:
Daddy Issues
Angsty Background
Good Looks
Is talented in one specific are
Is a Genius
Has challenged something or done something unheard of for a kid of his age
Is a caring older brother
Naive
Has some rare, original trait in his looks Xerxes heritage

Well, we still love him biggrin.gif
AXavierB
I've never heard of daddy issues being a Mary Sue/Gary Stu trait. Plenty of people would be embittered toward a parent who they thought abandoned them.

Anyway, Ed has a few traits of a Gary Stu, but so do many characters. That doesn't mean he is a Gary Stu. He merely has some symptoms. He's a child prodigy, he has an unusual eye color and he's accomplished feats most people have been unable to. But that's about it. Being a prodigy alone doesn't make him a Gary Stu, because plenty of prodigies exist in real life. Al is talented in alchemy too, and anyone would be skilled after receiving Izumi's training. The eye color isn't unique, because Hohenheim and Al both share that trait, as do Father and all other Xerxians. No one ever really makes a big deal out of Ed's eye color. At best it gets an offhand comment here or there, but I can't remember more than one instance of that happening. As for the feats he's accomplished, Ed isn't very special once you consider that basically every main character is some badass. Ed's accomplishments are eclipsed by those of Hohenheim and Roy, which more or less drive the story if you think about it, and he's far from being the most powerful alchemist in the series. He couldn't even beat Dante, Izumi or Roy on his own, and he couldn't lay a finger on Father initially.

As for good looks, yeah, Ed's hot, but it's never mentioned in the story. Girls don't flock to him like lambs. In fact, if May Chang's reaction to seeing him is anything to go by, Ed is probably considered pretty average-looking in-universe. Honestly, Roy is more of a Gary Stu than Ed is.
Pyroclasm
Ed only has a few traits that could be considered "Gary Stu", but they're not enough to actually make him one.
Anomia Grey
Down in the fanfiction section, there's a very nice drabble by Tobu no Ishi which describes Edward in quite an almost unflattering manner: http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/forums/...st&p=467974

It all does depend, as the title of the fic suggests, on your point of view - he does indeed have a big nose ^^ The first anime has indeed made him grotesquely ripped from the start, but I love how skinny and more child-like he appears in the second. I think he exudes such an air of MS-ness because of his nigh-all-powerful alchemical abilities and the attitude that comes with it, but I think it's an intrinsic part of the message of the story, how power comes with responsibility and is useless without the cause and the friends to use it for.
Luxuria-Cat
"Ed only has a few traits that could be considered "Gary Stu", but they're not enough to actually make him one."

I agree with this, I think a lot of people are too quick on naming characters Stus/Sues when they are not even that cliched. I think if a characteristic is common enough in real life people, such as in Ed's case, a close relationship with a brother not-so-desirable parental relationship or being attractive, then that trait doesn't quite count as a Stu/Sue trait.
rosieechan
Ed as a Gary-Stu? Now that's a new one. Ed isn't really a Gary-Stu at all. Sure, he's a child prodigy in alchemy, but that's basically about it as far as being I'm-oh-so-awesomer-than-anyone-else goes. Seriously. He's not the most good looking character, he's not the best alchemist (what about Hohenheim? Father?), and he's certainly not the kindest. And I agree with the first post, he does what most Gary-Stu's don't: he grows. He develops physically, mentally, and emotionally. Gary-Stu would be the last label to tag on Ed. tongue.gif

I also dislike it when fans pick out some Mary-Suish qualities on characters and immediately label them as a Mary-Sue. Just because they've got some qualities doesn't mean that they're the most Mary-Suish character in the world or anything. A character would be boring without SOME Mary-Suish qualities.

QUOTE
If you think about it, Ed has been through a lot of terrible situations like loosing an arm and a leg.....
Loosing the body of Al...... having a hard time on getting their bodies back... losing a mom who is very dear to him..... and many other stuff....


Not trying to say Ed IS a Gary-Stu or anything, but just because a character has a tragic life doesn't mean he's not a Gary-Stu. In fact, Gary-Stus are known to have tragic past lives that they somehow overcome in the most Gary-Stuish manner.

Sure, Ed's gone through much, but he's overcome it by learning lessons: he doesn't have just one tragic moment in his life, but many more that's able to make him achieve his goal. He isn't good and perfect for no reason, he learns to be better throughout the story.

QUOTE
Good Looks


No. Good looks only count if either the characters in the story mention his good looks, or he knows it. Not by Ed fangirls.

QUOTE
Is talented in one specific are


Actually, Gary-Stus are supposed to be talented in many, almost every area(s), right? Correct me if I'm wrong. ^^'

QUOTE
Naive


What does that have to do with being a Gary-Stu? It's all how it's interpreted: if he's naive but is interpreted as a good thing, than yes, that would be considered a Gary-Stu quality. But I don't think that applies to Ed...
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