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Popogeejo

Well it's been flirted with in other topic but I've decided we need a debate about this properly.
Do you belive people are born Gay or are made Gay.
Are you in favour of Gays and Lesbians,one but not the other or neither?
Should children be taught anything possotive about benig gay?

I know this will probably be one sided but don't be shy about what you think.

Just don't be a Fred Phelps.*

I'm pro gay/lesbian and belive it is something your born with (this is shown by Brain disection. Gay men had brains more simmilar to females) and I belive kids should be taught about it in Sex Ed.



*it is a real site so don't even ask.
Carnal Malefactor
It doesn't stand to reason that people would choose to be that way, given how much gays are ostracized.

I also don't think it's entirely genetic, though.
Popogeejo
Maybe I shouldn't have said "Born Gay"
It has been shown that both homosexuals and transvestites do have more feminine brain structure.It is not set in stone that they will be attracted to the same sex and that masculine structured brained males will be attracted to the opposite sex but it is more likely that they will be.

Other factors do come into it ofcourse like upbringing and peer groups but I think it is the biological factor that has the largest influence.
FullMetal Shrimp
Well, it is an interesting topic. And about the GOD HATES FAGS thing is so untrue. God loves all people, but he hates sin, which would include homosexuality, thus he doesn't hate homosexuals he hates the sin of it. He hates the sin but loves the sinner. I'll just stop there, don't wanna get too involved in religion again...

But, if homosexuality is something that is shown in the brain, it may not be helped, but they could try to get help, although they most likely wouldn't want help. I'm not exactly for homosexuality, but the Bible does still say that you can go to heaven anyway, but if it is something that is very hard to treat or can't be helped then it would be something understandable.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
Homosexuality is not a sin and it's not a lifestyle choice. There are many homosexuals who wish more than anything that they were straight because how most of society views gays. I had a gay friend I met when I moved to SF who used to be a popular jock in high school, he'd date cheerleaders the whole nine yards. He said he cried like a "little b*tch" when he figured it out.

People who are actually gay are born that way. Then there's the people who are gay/bi because it's so hip and alternative and that's they only thing they could think to do to be "different".
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ Apr 17 2006, 10:50 AM) [snapback]382176[/snapback]

Well, it is an interesting topic. And about the GOD HATES FAGS thing is so untrue. God loves all people, but he hates sin, which would include homosexuality, thus he doesn't hate homosexuals he hates the sin of it. He hates the sin but loves the sinner. I'll just stop there, don't wanna get too involved in religion again...

But, if homosexuality is something that is shown in the brain, it may not be helped, but they could try to get help, although they most likely wouldn't want help. I'm not exactly for homosexuality, but the Bible does still say that you can go to heaven anyway, but if it is something that is very hard to treat or can't be helped then it would be something understandable.

I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate and ask, but didn't God say, "Be fruitful and multiply"? How does homosexuality fit into the equation of humans are supposed to reproduce?
Envy's lil' miniskirt
Maybe homosexuality is a form of population control. After all, other animals practice homosexualilty as well.
Carnal Malefactor
When did God ever say anything about population control? wink.gif
Envy's lil' miniskirt
I think god did say something, not that you could hear over all those fundies squeeling.

After all, if "god" subscribed to population control their sex lives would go waaaaaay down. laugh.gif
Popogeejo
Technicly it's sodomy thats a sin.So lesbians are safe and gay guys who just use their hands.Strait guys who "use the backdoor" are in trouble though wink.gif
Tombow
^^ And, also technically, it's SOME God(s) in some religeons that say those are "no-no's.
There are other poeple who believe in other god(s) that are ok with homosexuality.
(Just wanted to remind everyone. tongue.gif )
Envy's lil' miniskirt
Yeah but I think we're all talking about what passes for christianity these days.
Popogeejo
Hell,look at the Greeks.They percived homosexuality as very Masculine.They only slept with women to pass on their line.
Strange that it wasn't mentioned in Troy that Brads character was Bi.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
Oh man, I was so close to getting some Brad Pitt yaoi. sad.gif
Popogeejo
QUOTE
Oh man, I was so close to getting some Brad Pitt yaoi.


It's a sorrow we all share.
Tombow
Greeks, Romans, Chinese Emperors, and what about Alexander, the Great...
The fact that so many non-Christian clutures permitted the homosexuality is not deniable, I think.

And, speaking of Christianity, there are document (actual authenticated dcument, I think, tho I can't recall where i read the article at the moment) that's showing that in the earlier stage of Christianity, some churches performed marriage "same sex union" ceremonies for homosexual couples.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ Apr 17 2006, 12:19 PM) [snapback]382217[/snapback]

Homosexuality is not a sin and it's not a lifestyle choice. There are many homosexuals who wish more than anything that they were straight because how most of society views gays. I had a gay friend I met when I moved to SF who used to be a popular jock in high school, he'd date cheerleaders the whole nine yards. He said he cried like a "little b*tch" when he figured it out.

People who are actually gay are born that way. Then there's the people who are gay/bi because it's so hip and alternative and that's they only thing they could think to do to be "different".

I completely agree with this. The idea that people actually WANT to be part of a group that's deprived of basic rights, condemned by religious figures, and often targeted with violence is simply laughable.
Sharingan Serpent
I really find nothing wrong with it if two people of the same sex it's clearly alright ... As long as they don't get me involved... rolleyes.gif
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Greeneyes Alchemist @ Apr 18 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]382889[/snapback]

I really find nothing wrong with it if two people of the same sex it's clearly alright ... As long as they don't get me involved... rolleyes.gif

laugh.gif
Why would they want to?
Sharingan Serpent
QUOTE(Void @ Apr 18 2006, 09:45 AM) [snapback]382890[/snapback]

QUOTE(Greeneyes Alchemist @ Apr 18 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]382889[/snapback]

I really find nothing wrong with it if two people of the same sex it's clearly alright ... As long as they don't get me involved... rolleyes.gif

laugh.gif
Why would they want to?


There you go with asking me questions again... dry.gif

And also many people ask me these things... Friends and enemies included...
Popogeejo
Don't worry Greeneyes,it's just that practicly everyone loves Lesbians.
I mean they rock.Lesbians,lesbians,lesbians. wink.gif
*[/joke]

On a diffrent tangent,studies show that those who are violently anti-homosexual ae infact latent homosexuals themselves.



*I'm certain this is ok for PG-13 but if not sorry.

You need to use more discretion when you choose links to post.
Sharingan Serpent
QUOTE(popogeejo @ Apr 18 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]382906[/snapback]

Don't worry Greeneyes,it's just that practicly everyone loves Lesbians.
I mean they rock.Lesbians,lesbians,lesbians. wink.gif *[/joke]

On a diffrent tangent,studies show that those who are violently anti-homosexual ae infact latent homosexuals themselves.



*I'm certain this is ok for PG-13 but if not sorry.


For the last time I am not a Lesbian...I am straight DARN IT!!!
Carnal Malefactor
Better yet,

http://manga.clone-army.org/AAM///AAM_061.jpg
Sharingan Serpent
I am not even going to bother to see that... dry.gif When I am certain that I said that I'M NOT A LESBIAN
Popogeejo
QUOTE
For the last time I am not a Lesbian...I am straight DARN IT!!!


I'm just toying with you.the more you react he more fun I have.*Cue evil laugh*

QUOTE
You need to use more discretion when you choose links to post.


Fairly warned by I.Yarr.

QUOTE


Hail the Gewd guys.I would stick up a loserz comic about double standards but I can't be bothered looking for it.Safe to say people will be happy if a girls a lesbian but not if a guy is gay.
asunder
My view on homosexuality is different strokes for different folks.

As long as it isn't hurting anyone, life's too short to be that judgemental on the happiness of others.
Popogeejo
QUOTE

Popo
Fix your spam banner, it's stretching the screen.


Fixed.I deleted where I should have returned.I had my side bar up so it didn't show rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
As long as it isn't hurting anyone,


What about S&M? wink.gif
Automne
Yay...It was slightly getting off-topic here, hehe...

Being bi, I have no problems with homosexuals, however, when I see a guy/girl who thinks girl on girl/guy on guy is "hot" but is totally against the idea of gays/lesbians, I have the habit to think there's something wrong and I flame.

Plus, some above shouldn't be so uptight about it. Like asu said, life is too short and I also believe it is open for experimentations...Well, of course, there's always consequences.

Now about being, or not, born gay, I have no idea. What about the guy/girl who's always been always attracted to the opposite sex but who suddenly finds him/herself attracted by the same sex? Or what about bisexuals? Yeah, it's kinda confusing.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
I'll never understand the mindset of people who like to see same sex couples in entertainment but are against gays. Confused much? huh.gif

As for bisexuals. I think it's normal to be attracted to the same sex be it admiring from afar (even on a small scale) or actually dating people of the same sex. While my bicycle never completely fell out of the closet I'm not apposed to the idea that I might date a woman somewhere down the line.

I've noticed alot of people in the gay community are against bisexuals saying that their just confused, faking it, etc but I think bisexuallity is possible.
Carnal Malefactor
Bisexuality is supposedly even more commonplace in nature than heterosexuality. I guess it all just depends on whether you act on it.
Automne
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt Posted Today @ 12:51 PM)
I've noticed alot of people in the gay community are against bisexuals saying that their just confused, faking it, etc but I think bisexuallity is possible.

Woah, really? Well, personally, I know I both like men and women the same but that's just me, because I do know some who pretend they are bi, leaning towards men/women, but they do not seem confused or anything. So, yes, I think bisexuality is possible too, though that, like you already said, some are using this argument to look "cool". It's mostly girls who do that, I noticed. It's really stupid though.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Void @ Apr 18 2006, 01:11 PM) [snapback]382978[/snapback]

I guess it all just depends on whether you act on it.

I think that's pretty much it. Like I said, I think everybody is bi on some level even if it's very minute and disguises itself as something else.
QUOTE(SinLuxuria @ Apr 18 2006, 01:13 PM) [snapback]382980[/snapback]

QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt Posted Today @ 12:51 PM)
I've noticed alot of people in the gay community are against bisexuals saying that their just confused, faking it, etc but I think bisexuallity is possible.

Woah, really? Well, personally, I know I both like men and women the same but that's just me, because I do know some who pretend they are bi, leaning towards men/women, but they do not seem confused or anything. So, yes, I think bisexuality is possible too, though that, like you already said, some are using this argument to look "cool". It's mostly girls who do that, I noticed. It's really stupid though.

Well I used to live in a prodominately gay neighborhood when I first hit the bay area and thus would hang out with a lot of gays and quite a few said that they didn't believe in bisexuality. It could be the same arguement that others have about homosexuals, lumping it into a catagory because they don't understand it. However this was in the early 90's so I'm not sure if the feelings are the same.

However, due to the hipness of being bi that has surfaced in the last 5-10 years the attitude might be the same.

Sinny
Nice icon. tongue.gif
Popogeejo
It's alot of 15-25 year olds who se sexuality as a means to individuality.Bi sexuality has become a fashion like Goth,Skater or [insert another social group] which takes away from actual bi sexuals.
Basicly there's "Bi" and "Poser Bi" with the later out numbering the former.
Toby-Chan
QUOTE(Void @ Apr 18 2006, 01:11 PM) [snapback]382978[/snapback]

Bisexuality is supposedly even more commonplace in nature than heterosexuality. I guess it all just depends on whether you act on it.


huh.gif Do you have sources?
MonsterEnvy
Wow, I was sort of waiting for someone to start this topic...

Okay, I think that people are born(genetically prone) to favor a certain sex, or both sexes equally. The only 'nurture' aspect as opposed to 'nature' is the environment. If homosexuality and bisexuality are seen as acceptable lifestyle choices, then more people will be seen as homosexual and bisexual, but only because they won't feel that they need to hide it. Personally, I'm of the opinion that sexuality can be viewed on a scale, with heterosexuality at one end and homosexuality at another. The amount of people who fall at each place would be represented by a bell curve that's shifted towards the heterosexual side of the spectrum.

I also agree with mini and sin that there are a number of girls (not nearly so many males) who pretend to be bisexual or even lesbian simply for the 'image' or whatever. This is, I think, degrading to their sexuality and the general perception of gays and things. It leads people to believe that others can convert when, truly, they were never homosexual in the first place.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ Apr 18 2006, 09:33 PM) [snapback]383114[/snapback]

QUOTE(Void @ Apr 18 2006, 01:11 PM) [snapback]382978[/snapback]

Bisexuality is supposedly even more commonplace in nature than heterosexuality. I guess it all just depends on whether you act on it.


huh.gif Do you have sources?

I seem to recall molecular alchemist telling me something along those lines.
Toby-Chan
QUOTE(Void @ Apr 18 2006, 06:51 PM) [snapback]383131[/snapback]

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ Apr 18 2006, 09:33 PM) [snapback]383114[/snapback]

QUOTE(Void @ Apr 18 2006, 01:11 PM) [snapback]382978[/snapback]

Bisexuality is supposedly even more commonplace in nature than heterosexuality. I guess it all just depends on whether you act on it.


huh.gif Do you have sources?

I seem to recall molecular alchemist telling me something along those lines.


Fascinating... I'd be quite interested in a few credible links.
Ailuro
I heard that as well. That no one is completely hetersexual or homosexual. That everyone has a certain percentage of bisexuality.
MonsterEnvy
Well, I actually disagree with that. There are some people who are completely heterosexual. They're rare, though. Most people would probably land at around 7.5 on a ten point scale with straight at ten and gay at 0. there are definitely men who could never imagine having relations with a man and women with a woman. They just find it completely repugnant. So, there are some...but yes, most people are at least a little bisexual or homosexual.
FullMetal Shrimp
Homosexuality, bisexuality and heterosexuality is tough to talk about, especially for a religous person, like me, and discovering that their minds are born different is just...yeah... It is definetely something I'd have to research though. I just want to a youth conference with bunches of people and I am certain some of them were gay, and I can just imagine how hard it is for them to be treated or thought of like an outcast and listen to the preacher saying how homosexuality is wrong must be even tougher.

But, I do think that it is wrong. And even then just because it is a mental or physical problem doesn't mean they couldn't attempt to fix it.

Guys with a high testosterone level are prone to be more aggressive, and most of the time, there are your rapists. They cannot control their high tesosterone level, they were born with it. But just because it was something the rapist was born with doesn't make it anymore right.

I remember a preacher said that doing a sin is one thing, but doing it while being proud of it and bragging about it is a whole new thing.

So, my thoughts, is that if you're happy having gay sex with no guilt at all, then that would make it wrong, IMO, of course, because I'm almost certain that someone won't agree with me. tongue.gif

But it is definetely something I'd have to research more.
Carnal Malefactor
You just gave the reason why I'll never become a Christian.

Gratuitous guilt.
FullMetal Shrimp
The Christian's definition of guilt would be anything God says is wrong that you should feel shameful about, or feel bad even for what is morally corrupt.

In the Bible, God says that marriage is between two people that become whole, a man and a woman. This has been broken with homosexuality. Marriage is something honorable, and there is no honor in gay marriage, and they cannot multiply.

And God did not make homosexuals. He hates homosexuality, bisexuality, etc. but he does not hate homosexuals. If I were to guess, I would say it is something in their brains but I think it is really the emotional influence the person goes through during their life that they go through, and that it is something that can be fixed if they wanted to fix it.

I'm still very wishy-washy about this subject though.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE
I'm still very wishy-washy about this subject though.

THis, and every other subject. rolleyes.gif

Look, there's clear scientific evidence now that homosexuality is neither chosen, nor learned. And if 'God' didn't make these people gay, then who did? And why should they be ashamed of something they have no control over? Telling a gay person to try not to be gay is like telling someone with no legs to walk. And telling them to be ashamed of acting on their sexuality is like telling the cripple to be ashamed of using a wheelchair.
Popogeejo
QUOTE("FMS")
I do think that it is wrong. And even then just because it is a mental or physical problem doesn't mean they couldn't attempt to fix it.


You can't fix sexuality in the same way you can't fix the urge to eat or drink.

QUOTE("FMS")
Guys with a high testosterone level are prone to be more aggressive, and most of the time, there are your rapists. They cannot control their high tesosterone level, they were born with it. But just because it was something the rapist was born with doesn't make it anymore right.


People with higth testosterone still know the law.if they want unload then Porn and prostitues are a prefrable alternative to rape.You can't get a subsitute for an emotional bond.

QUOTE("FMS")
So, my thoughts, is that if you're happy having gay sex with no guilt at all, then that would make it wrong, IMO, of course, because I'm almost certain that someone won't agree with me


Should we feel guilty for breathing?you can't ask people to feel bad for someting that feels natural to them.So gay's do feel huge ammounts of guilt and deny their feelings.Some homosexuals do go into strait marriage where they are miserable.The partner can't be very happy either.

QUOTE("Void")
And if 'God' didn't make these people gay, then who did?


Satan!Same sex relations are his choosen parth to Global conquest! rolleyes.gif


Sharingan Serpent
Nuh uh uh...it's one of the seven sins I think laugh.gif

And it's really by instinct I think that's why two people of the same sex are oddly attracted to each other laugh.gif

It's happened before you know...

And besides I have a very tinnie tiny problem... happy.gif;;
MonsterEnvy
^^Wow, Sodomy as an FMA sin... that'd give it an OT rating, probably. No, sodomy isn't one of the seven deadly sins, but it's classified under 'violence against nature and the natural order' and placed in the second area of the seventh circle of hell by Dante in his inferno.

I think that FMS is actually being better about his arguments this time, and though I disagree with his point of view, I respect the fact that some people do think that homosexuality is wrong. Voicing that opinion in this way is a hell of a lot better than waving a sign in the streat saying 'DEATH TO FAGS.' there's no way of really arguing whether something is right or wrong, and according to the code that some people follow in their religions, homosexuality is wrong. Although it's a perfectly acceptable belief, it's not right to attempt to force your belief on others through laws and suchlike.

However, a lot of people truly don't want to be gay, and it's hard for me to believe that anyone who could in any way choose not to be ostracized from the world at large because of his or her sexuality would choose otherwise. Given, there are some who do appear to change, but these people are often either pretending to be heterosexual as popo said, or were never homosexual or bisexual in the first place. It's becoming somewhat more common (though not common by any means) among girls, especially teens, to demonstrate some level of bisexuality, but because it's accepted and has to do with finding your identity, and perhaps rebelling against parents or religion, than of a true urge to carry on homosexual relationships.

Yep, my two cents.
The RZA
I luv homo's just as long as they dont mess wit me. To me it doesnt matter what ur sexuality is, it depends on the person. If i can get along wit you then we straight. I agree wit Bacon because why would God make gay people, & hate them. Doesnt make any sense.
Toby-Chan
I bet there's a hidden passage in the bible somewhere, that God made gays so they could adopt children that they *want* to take care of and pick up the slack for all the crappy heterosexual parents who are irresponsibly breeding.

If it's not, then there should be an amendment. Dangitt, God! Send us another prophet so we can change the book.
MonsterEnvy
^^lol, yes.
(prophet, by the way. Though, more profit is never a bad thing either...)

I think that it's unfortunate how so many children are indoctrinated into strict religious beliefs by their parents before they have a chance to really weigh the evidence and decide for themselves whether such things as homosexuality and abortion and evolution should or did happen, and whether they're right or wrong and suchlike.
Toby-Chan
QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Apr 24 2006, 06:31 PM) [snapback]385659[/snapback]

^^lol, yes.
(prophet, by the way. Though, more profit is never a bad thing either...)


>.>

<.<


I knew that! I just had a brainfart.



SHUT UP! I WAS THE SPELLING CHAMPION OF MY FIRST GRADE CLASS! I SPELLED 'ENVIRONMENT', BIOTCH!
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