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GS4Life
Come on the last thing we need is for RanFan to die, nobody wants me to pull a Darth Vader(Yes my no woould be that bad). We could always use more Winry though. I am still disturbed by Gluttony popping out of The Father's chest, I guess there really isn't a normal place for men to give birth so it could've been worse(Your Welcome to whoever wants to sarcastically thank me for giving them a masty mental image)

On the other hand I wonder if Dr.Knox completely stopped RanFan and Mei's fighting while their still in his house, or will one of them try another assassination attempt. Mei would ridicoulsly scary if she were older and if she has seen beyond the gate so she could clap her hands and use alchemy.*shudders* Poor RanFan would be dead and Mei would be uber powerfull and even scare "The Father"
Ed probably will head over to Knox's after he's done with Riza. I'd laugh if Al and RanFan already left without him.
Jedi28
QUOTE(popogeejo @ Mar 14 2006, 07:10 PM) [snapback]363345[/snapback]

It'll still take LanFan 6 months to get better and I can't see things being calm for that long.Atleast this showss that the manga is gonna be going for quite some time...unless LanFan dies.


Or unless they suddenly start a chapter with her having automail and go "wow, six months already."
kaizenyorii
i hope it takes lan fan a long time to recover. if she recovers in like 1month like archer did that would be lame.
Popogeejo
The anime never said how long it took to recover so it can be assumed to a diffrent ammount of time.
MonsterEnvy
It seems most likely that we'll go to an ishbal flashback for the next four (maybe five) chapters and then six months will have passed (or however long it takes Ranfan to recover) Gluttony will probably be near reborn (if not all the way) at that point, and we'll get caught up on what the alchemists have been doing as we go to a bit of a new story arc.

Does anyone else think that we'll see ishbal from three points of view? (marcoh/scar, Knox, and Riza/mustang)
Popogeejo
Definalty possible.Don't forget Armstrong though.I don't think I can cope with an extended ammount of 'tachless Armstrong though.Might drive me mad....Probablky won't though.
Jedi28
That would be cool as long as they're not showing the same things from three different points of view.
MonsterEnvy
No. Knox was a doctor. I think that we may get to see winry's parents.
Armstrong, Riza, and Roy apparently have their own convoluted history. (tattoo, why armstrong left exactly, etc.)
Then, Marcoh and Scar were doing whatever they were doing, which will be quite different. kimbley will come into the picture, probably... maybe as soon as the next chapter!
Popogeejo
Well looking at the flash backs Alex couldn't stomache the dead kiddies.

A part of me (the strange part) thinks know is due for a MASH type paradoy.He's Burns,Win's dad is Hawkeye and her mum is Hotlips.
...
just ignor that paragraph.
Sensenic
QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 15 2006, 05:52 AM) [snapback]363436[/snapback]

It seems most likely that we'll go to an ishbal flashback for the next four (maybe five) chapters and then six months will have passed (or however long it takes Ranfan to recover) Gluttony will probably be near reborn (if not all the way) at that point, and we'll get caught up on what the alchemists have been doing as we go to a bit of a new story arc.

Does anyone else think that we'll see ishbal from three points of view? (marcoh/scar, Knox, and Riza/mustang)

Yeah, that's what I said, on th 1rst post, actually happy.gif


QUOTE(GS4Life @ Mar 15 2006, 03:22 AM) [snapback]363365[/snapback]

Come on the last thing we need is for RanFan to die, nobody wants me to pull a Darth Vader(Yes my no woould be that bad).

XDD
bemused_non-alchemist
So... ok, just straightening out my mind. Currently there are several different elements (?) in the story, being:
  • Ed and Al, trying to get back their various body parts, and hence the PS.
  • Ed and Al, trying to uncover the secret of the homunculi, because it is related to the PS.
  • Ed and Al, unable to investigate further on the above secret, because Winry is being held hostage. (sorta. More like threatened.)
  • Roy, trying to attain the position of fuhrer.
  • Roy, trying to uncover the secret of the homunculi, because it is related to the upper echelons of the Military and because he needs the PS to cure Havoc (see below).
  • Roy, unable to investigate further on the above secret, because Riza is in danger. (fine.)
  • Riza, having a mysterious tattoo on her back.
  • Havoc, being paralyzed and hence retiring, but not out of action just yet. (go Havoc!)
  • Armstrong, joining Roy in the struggle against the homunculi because he does not want to run away from the battlefield again.
  • Scar, trying to avenge his countrymen by killing State Alchemists.
  • Scar, going to try to uncover the secret of the homunculi, because he discovered that they were the ones responsible for the Ishval War.
  • Scar's brother, having tattoos which are related to Rentanjutsu. (Hey, this is important.)
  • Ling and Lanfan, wanting their clan to be on top of the competition back home, and hence are trying to discover the secret to immortality, which is the PS.
  • Ling and Lanfan, trying to uncover the secret of the homunculi, because it is related to the PS.
  • Ling, having been taken over by Greed so as to attain "immortality", and because (going by his comment in Ch. 55) he wanted to have the same determination as Lanfan in achieving his goals.
  • Lanfan, wanting to get an automail arm so that she can go back to serving her master ASAP.
  • Mei, wanting her clan to have a better chance back home, and hence is trying to discover the secret to immortality, which is the PS.
  • We can assume that she will try to uncover the secret of the homunculi, because it is related to the PS.
  • The homunculi, building underground structures for unknown reasons.
  • The homunculi, causing chaos and violence in strategic locations.
  • The Father, trying to recreate the Gates (through Greed) and failing. (Might indicate some sort of mentality rather than an actual goal)
  • The Father, knowing all about alchemy but next to nothing about rentanjutsu, leading some to speculate that he is the Eastern (West? East? I'm all mixed up.) Sage.
  • Hohenheim, being in some way mixed up with all this, in that he knows what's going on with the homonculi and has all these suspicious powers, and yet remains an enigma as to his true role in all this.
Ok... Izumi doesn't have much of a role in the plot, now, does she? And I don't know what I've been writing for the past 10 minutes, so yeah. biggrin.gif
Jedi28
Yes, many many elements. It's kinda weird though now with Ed, Al and Roy.

Fuhrer: Yes, as a matter of fact I am the enemy. Deal with it.
Ed, Al, and Roy: Darn, now we have to go on like normal except we're working for the enemy.
Colette
QUOTE(Summoner Colette @ Mar 13 2006, 07:32 PM) [snapback]362845[/snapback]



OH! I just remembered something Mustang said! He said that Marcoh AND the stone that he made were taken. What's Father gonna do with this Stone?

Just bringing this up again, I'm curious if anyone has any theories.
MonsterEnvy
QUOTE
The Father, trying to recreate the Gates (through Greed) and failing. (Might indicate some sort of mentality rather than an actual goal)
The Father, knowing all about alchemy but next to nothing about rentanjutsu, leading some to speculate that he is the Eastern (West? East? I'm all mixed up.) Sage.

Father is (i think) the sage from the East, coming to Amestris. Hohenheim would then be the Sage from the West.
Father is trying to recreate the gates through gluttony, not greed.
Also: Ed and Al: Trying to discover the secret of the homunculi, because their country is going to be blown up or some such.
QUOTE

QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 15 2006, 05:52 AM)

It seems most likely that we'll go to an ishbal flashback for the next four (maybe five) chapters and then six months will have passed (or however long it takes Ranfan to recover) Gluttony will probably be near reborn (if not all the way) at that point, and we'll get caught up on what the alchemists have been doing as we go to a bit of a new story arc.

Does anyone else think that we'll see ishbal from three points of view? (marcoh/scar, Knox, and Riza/mustang)

Yeah, that's what I said, on th 1rst post, actually

Sorry for repeating you! I forgot that you had mentioned that already... not the three parts though, right?
Nepharski
Man...STILL waiting for the MSN group to update with translations.

Still, I got the general cut of the gibb of what was going on here. Suffice to say, we need a government amendment to make each month come quicker for the next installation.
Redthorn
QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 15 2006, 10:39 PM) [snapback]363844[/snapback]

Also: Ed and Al: Trying to discover the secret of the homunculi, because their country is going to be blown up or some such.


Definitely belongs on the list, but I don't think it can go to Ed and Al. They don't know about this yet. Only Marcoh.

I suppose Marcoh will want to tell Scar before Scar blows his head off (though really, Marcoh should have coughed that info up BEFORE enraging Scar, it would have been safer...) huh.gif

But will Scar care if most of Amestris gets eaten by Father? He might think it serves them right. unsure.gif
Jedi28
Marcoh says to Envy something along the lines of "You're going to create an array that encompasses the entire country aren't you?" to which Envy responds "you're close, you're on the right track." I was thinking, is that what Sloth has been doing this whole time? Creating an underground array that encompasses the entire country of Ametris?
Redthorn
QUOTE(Jedi28 @ Mar 15 2006, 11:58 PM) [snapback]363892[/snapback]
I was thinking, is that what Sloth has been doing this whole time? Creating an underground array that encompasses the entire country of Ametris?


It's been proposed before in other places. Seems like a good bet to me. The upcoming invasion of Drachma is intended as a move to grab control of that missing fifth point in the north, probably. (I think that's where Hoho is headed, too; that north point is in the Briggs mountains, and Hoho was up in some mountains in the middle of nowhere last we saw him.)

I'm expecting the plot to head north to Drachma once we're done with the Ishbal flashbacks, myself.
Sensenic
QUOTE(bemused_non-alchemist @ Mar 15 2006, 05:47 PM) [snapback]363611[/snapback]

So... ok, just straightening out my mind. Currently there are several different elements (?) in the story, being:
(all of it)
[/list]

Great summary, BNA (if you don't mind, it's shorter happy.gifU)!
QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 16 2006, 04:39 AM) [snapback]363844[/snapback]

QUOTE

QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 15 2006, 05:52 AM)

It seems most likely that we'll go to an ishbal flashback for the next four (maybe five) chapters and then six months will have passed (or however long it takes Ranfan to recover) Gluttony will probably be near reborn (if not all the way) at that point, and we'll get caught up on what the alchemists have been doing as we go to a bit of a new story arc.

Does anyone else think that we'll see ishbal from three points of view? (marcoh/scar, Knox, and Riza/mustang)

Yeah, that's what I said, on th 1rst post, actually

Sorry for repeating you! I forgot that you had mentioned that already... not the three parts though, right?

Yes, I said that we were probably going to see the story from Armstrong's, Mustang's and most surely Knox's, Marcoh's, Scar's and Hawkeye's POVs. happy.gif

But whatever, I'll be the one to ask your pardon, cuz I'm being quite an a$$ as of late. sleep.gif I'll try to control myself (after this post m'afraid).
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Mar 16 2006, 05:38 AM) [snapback]363880[/snapback]

Man...STILL waiting for the MSN group to update with translations.

Still, I got the general cut of the gibb of what was going on here. Suffice to say, we need a government amendment to make each month come quicker for the next installation.

XD Poor, poor Neph.

What was the reason you couldn't (or won't) download from ZOMGFTA again?
QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 16 2006, 05:44 AM) [snapback]363884[/snapback]

QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 15 2006, 10:39 PM) [snapback]363844[/snapback]

Also: Ed and Al: Trying to discover the secret of the homunculi, because their country is going to be blown up or some such.


Definitely belongs on the list, but I don't think it can go to Ed and Al. They don't know about this yet. Only Marcoh.

I suppose Marcoh will want to tell Scar before Scar blows his head off (though really, Marcoh should have coughed that info up BEFORE enraging Scar, it would have been safer...) huh.gif

XD

But Marcoh's purpose, from the moment he knew it was Scar in front of him, was to die by his hand, not to tell him his "Grandpa's War Memories".

And Ed already knows they plan to do sth "big" (and definitely not good) with the whole country... he thought of it after seeing what had happened with Xerxes.
QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 16 2006, 07:48 AM) [snapback]363922[/snapback]

I'm expecting the plot to head north to Drachma once we're done with the Ishbal flashbacks, myself.

That's what Arakawa said (the going north part, not the flashback)... And we'll meet Armstrong's older sister too! Yay!
Redthorn
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Mar 16 2006, 03:21 AM) [snapback]363950[/snapback]

QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 16 2006, 05:44 AM) [snapback]363884[/snapback]

QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 15 2006, 10:39 PM) [snapback]363844[/snapback]

Also: Ed and Al: Trying to discover the secret of the homunculi, because their country is going to be blown up or some such.


I suppose Marcoh will want to tell Scar before Scar blows his head off (though really, Marcoh should have coughed that info up BEFORE enraging Scar, it would have been safer...) huh.gif

XD

But Marcoh's purpose, from the moment he knew it was Scar in front of him, was to die by his hand, not to tell him his "Grandpa's War Memories".


I'm not talking about Marcoh flashbacking to Ishbal for Scar. I mean, Marcoh knows that the homunculi are going to do something bad to the entire country of Amestris in the near future. If Marcoh wants to die to keep the homunculi from destroying his village, you'd think he'd definitely want to make sure he passed on the information about the "Big Plan" to someone before he meekly submits to Scar's vengeance. Because otherwise his village is going to go down in flames anyway, and the whole point of having Scar kill him (instead of Marcoh killing himself) is so the homunculi won't take revenge on Marcoh's village.

Really, he won't have done the village any favors if he commits suicide-by-Scar but fails to get out the word about what the homunculi are doing and thus causes Amestris to be completely destroyed, village and all.

QUOTE
And Ed already knows they plan to do sth "big" (and definitely not good) with the whole country... he thought of it after seeing what had happened with Xerxes.


Yeah, but he has no clue what or how. Which means he has no hope of stopping it except by dumb luck. And Ed's luck ain't so good, generally speaking! sad.gif

Marcoh has details on the specifics. He should have been sure that info got out before he invited Scar to kill him, if he wants to save that village.

Hoho probably knows what's up too but I'm unclear exactly whose side he's on in this, if anyone's. I mean, he's not locked up anywhere -- he could tell pretty much anyone about what's going on, and he hasn't said a word that we know of... mad.gif
Sensenic
QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 16 2006, 10:02 AM) [snapback]363954[/snapback]

(About Marcoh)

Ah, oh, I see. My bad tongue.gif

Yeah, you're right there... The poor man's so eager to die he forgot, maybe. sad.gif
QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 16 2006, 10:02 AM) [snapback]363954[/snapback]
Hoho probably knows what's up too but I'm unclear exactly whose side he's on in this, if anyone's. I mean, he's not locked up anywhere -- he could tell pretty much anyone about what's going on, and he hasn't said a word that we know of... mad.gif

Ah, good ol' Hoho... Such a big mistery he still is...
But i have trust in him. He probably follows his own way for a reason, but I believe he's doing sth, and not for Father, but against him.

I hope. sad.gif
bemused_non-alchemist
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Mar 16 2006, 04:21 PM) [snapback]363950[/snapback]

QUOTE(bemused_non-alchemist @ Mar 15 2006, 05:47 PM) [snapback]363611[/snapback]

So... ok, just straightening out my mind. Currently there are several different elements (?) in the story, being:
(all of it)
[/list]

Great summary, BNA (if you don't mind, it's shorter happy.gifU)!

Thanks, and no, I don't mind, though it seems fated that I always be known by my initials on or off-line. Ah, just another downside of a long complex name. (besides occasionally spelling it wrong) biggrin.gif

Gah, I can't get myself into the discussion at all. Must be homework sucking all the joy out of life.

Random off-topic comment: Man, my blister's big. And it's bouncy.
Jedi28
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Mar 16 2006, 06:59 AM) [snapback]363970[/snapback]

QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 16 2006, 10:02 AM) [snapback]363954[/snapback]

(About Marcoh)

Ah, oh, I see. My bad tongue.gif

Yeah, you're right there... The poor man's so eager to die he forgot, maybe. sad.gif
QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 16 2006, 10:02 AM) [snapback]363954[/snapback]
Hoho probably knows what's up too but I'm unclear exactly whose side he's on in this, if anyone's. I mean, he's not locked up anywhere -- he could tell pretty much anyone about what's going on, and he hasn't said a word that we know of... mad.gif

Ah, good ol' Hoho... Such a big mistery he still is...
But i have trust in him. He probably follows his own way for a reason, but I believe he's doing sth, and not for Father, but against him.

I hope. sad.gif


I'm not sure what side Hoho is on either. He tells Pinako that she should leave the country immediately and then says he'll never be able to visit her or eat her meals again. That of course could just mean he's not going home again (he tells the passengers on the wagon he's lost a reason to go home) but it could also mean he's not planning on trying to stop whatever is about to happen. Or perhaps he might try to stop it but he doesn't have a lot of hope of being sucessful. AHHH! He's such a darn enigma! biggrin.gif
Popogeejo
Prehaps Hoho just has an eating disorder...
It's obvious he has a big part to play,what with surviving a hail of bullets.
Is it just me or is he kinda "not all there" he seems to be very removed from everything around him like none of it really effects him in any way.
MonsterEnvy
As i said before, i think that he's the "Sage from the West," because the Sages from the East and West and Renkinjutsu and Rentanjutsu are related, it follows that the other counterparts, Father and Hohenheim, are likely related in the same way. Since Father's alchemy seems to be Rentanjutsu, it follows that Hohenheim's is more like Renkinjutsu (though we haven't seen it) I think that they're most likely two sides of the same coin, essentially, we can assume Hohenheim is whatever Father is not, for lack of any better information.
Animeoldtimer
Yeah, I thought he seemed out of it from the beginning. Maybe because he suppossedly can't die as Father said he doesn't need to eat either. Or maybe what he is going to do will allow him to die. He intrigues me.
ElvishVamp
It took quite a while for me to read all that. I really need to get on here more. It's not like I have much of a life anyway. happy.gif

I'm extremely curious about Riza's tattoo. I don't think she's evil or anything like that. There's definately a story there, though, I think most likely from Ishval. Since I really have new info or theories to add I'll leave it at that.

It seems to me that Hohenhiem has kind of decided stopping Father is a lost cause. At least, he doesn't seem very confident in stopping whatever it is Father's planning. He probably came home to warn Trisha and tell her to leave the country as well. I'm pretty sure I just contradicted myself there. I need to think about this one a bit more.

I know I've said this before, but since it's been made quite clear that Hohenhiem is not human, what does that make Ed and Al?
Jedi28
I was actually wondering the exact same thing. They're at least half human because of Trisha, but what's the other half and why haven't we seen any manifestations of it? I mean Hoho gets shot a bunch of times and doesn't even get nicked, Ed gets hurt all the time so he's clearly not got the same ability. Father didn't seem THAT interested in Ed and Al as Hoho's children, he's interested cause they're sacrifices and he was interested in the fact that Hoho had had children but he didn't seem that interested in the children themselves. That makes me wonder if whatever Hoho is just didn't get passed on.


I'm sure this has been mentioned before (and I think I saw some discussion on it but I forget where) but why does Ed's watch change from gold in the first novel to silver in the other novels? Mustang says it's a gold watch and then later it's a silver watch. Is it just a translation error?
Popogeejo
Father and Hoho are probably brothers.Maybe they werent born with their abilitys so therefore can't pass them down geneticly.
Jedi28
I don't think they're brothers myself, Father refers to Hoho as an "it." I think maybe there used to be one guy named Hoho and he did something that A. Changed his body in some way so that he can't be killed easily or perhaps at all, and B. Split him into two entites, one of which is Father and the other is Hoho.

Here's something else I was wondering about. According to Ed and Envy's conversation, the people of Xerxes were killed to create the philosopher stone which was eventually used to create Envy. BUT we've already seen that Father can secrete a philosopher stone from his own body which he then drops into Ling to create Greed. Why did they need to destroy Xerxes if Father could create it himself? Did he not have the ability at the time of the destruction of Xerxes?

I also wonder if the Fuhrer isn't going to try to kill Riza at some point now that she's his secretary. He told Father something along the lines of "I WILL make him (Roy) open the doors." Roy is around the Elrics all the time, he already KNOWS Human transmutation of the dead doesn't work so what would make him behave irrationally enough to try it anyway? Of course if the Fuhrer DID kill Riza he'd lose his hostage hold over Mustang.

Popogeejo
Maybe we're takng the term "it" to litraly...
We seem to think Father thinks of Hoho as an object rather than a person.Maybe (and this is just me thnking...well typing) father just hates hoho and chooses to act as he [hoho] was an object like Hitler with the Jews.(An extreme comparison I now but the only that springs to mind)

Them being brothers would explain their resemblance but so would them being one Being...This hard.
MonsterEnvy
QUOTE(Jedi28 @ Mar 17 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]364653[/snapback]

I don't think they're brothers myself, Father refers to Hoho as an "it." I think maybe there used to be one guy named Hoho and he did something that A. Changed his body in some way so that he can't be killed easily or perhaps at all, and B. Split him into two entites, one of which is Father and the other is Hoho.
Here's something else I was wondering about. According to Ed and Envy's conversation, the people of Xerxes were killed to create the philosopher stone which was eventually used to create Envy. BUT we've already seen that Father can secrete a philosopher stone from his own body which he then drops into Ling to create Greed. Why did they need to destroy Xerxes if Father could create it himself? Did he not have the ability at the time of the destruction of Xerxes?

Father didn't actually destroy Greed's stone. He just took it back into himself or something and reused it. Most, if not all of Father's stones were probably made from the destruction of Xerxes.
Also, the entity "Father" is probably the one who transmuted himself, according to Envy and Ed's conversation in Gluttony's stomach. Hohenheim is a byproduct- perhaps all of Father's virtues, while Father kept the sins? The transmutation that Father preformed probably was useful both in destroying Xerxes and giving him the souls he needs for a stone, but also we can't forget that he did transmute himself. Unlike Ed, he probably didn't just transmute himself into himself, but probably transmuted his "cycles of energy" and "body composition", that Scar, Mei, Ranfan, and Ling have all said to be strange and inhuman.
Jedi28
You know what would be really funny? If there were NO relation between father and Hoho, it's just a coincidence. biggrin.gif

I was rereading chapter 39 (where Riza thinks Roy is dead and collapses) and Roy makes the comment that "everyone" dies before he does. Who is he talking about I wonder?
Colette
QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 17 2006, 03:39 PM) [snapback]364707[/snapback]

QUOTE(Jedi28 @ Mar 17 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]364653[/snapback]

I don't think they're brothers myself, Father refers to Hoho as an "it." I think maybe there used to be one guy named Hoho and he did something that A. Changed his body in some way so that he can't be killed easily or perhaps at all, and B. Split him into two entites, one of which is Father and the other is Hoho.
Here's something else I was wondering about. According to Ed and Envy's conversation, the people of Xerxes were killed to create the philosopher stone which was eventually used to create Envy. BUT we've already seen that Father can secrete a philosopher stone from his own body which he then drops into Ling to create Greed. Why did they need to destroy Xerxes if Father could create it himself? Did he not have the ability at the time of the destruction of Xerxes?

Father didn't actually destroy Greed's stone. He just took it back into himself or something and reused it. Most, if not all of Father's stones were probably made from the destruction of Xerxes.
Also, the entity "Father" is probably the one who transmuted himself, according to Envy and Ed's conversation in Gluttony's stomach. Hohenheim is a byproduct- perhaps all of Father's virtues, while Father kept the sins? The transmutation that Father preformed probably was useful both in destroying Xerxes and giving him the souls he needs for a stone, but also we can't forget that he did transmute himself. Unlike Ed, he probably didn't just transmute himself into himself, but probably transmuted his "cycles of energy" and "body composition", that Scar, Mei, Ranfan, and Ling have all said to be strange and inhuman.

Nice. I wouldn't be at all suprised if that was all true.

@Jedi28- That WOULD be pretty funny laugh.gif
Redthorn
QUOTE
I know I've said this before, but since it's been made quite clear that Hohenhiem is not human, what does that make Ed and Al?


Confused? laugh.gif

I don't think they were able to entirely process what Father was saying about Hoho in 54, or they'd probably have had an "OMGWTF...if Hoho's not human...what are we?" moment by now. They must have been too distracted by Father looking like Hoho.

QUOTE
why does Ed's watch change from gold in the first novel to silver in the other novels? Mustang says it's a gold watch and then later it's a silver watch. Is it just a translation error?


The webmaster at the Genuine Truth Behind Truths site says:

QUOTE
The watch is supposed to be silver. Viz (and even fan scanslators) mistranslated the watch to be gold. Gin (Silver) and Kin (Gold) are sorta easy to confuse, if you think about it.


Not knowing any Japanese, I'm willing to take his word for it.

QUOTE

I also wonder if the Fuhrer isn't going to try to kill Riza at some point ... "I WILL make him (Roy) open the doors." Roy is around the Elrics all the time, he already KNOWS Human transmutation of the dead doesn't work so what would make him behave irrationally enough to try it anyway?


Presumably, since Wrath is Father's offspring, he knows a heckuva lot about human transmutation. Ed's already shown that you can open the Doors without trying to resurrect someone, when he transmuted himself into himself (and did the same for Ling and Envy).

So Wrath doesn't have to kill Riza, he just has to tell Roy, "Transmute yourself into yourself using this array I'm going to show you, or the Lieutenant will be beside herself -- and I mean that LITERALLY...(draws swords)" blink.gif

Presto, Doors are open.

Of course, without an outside energy source, Roy will end up dead or maimed from this attempt, but it's not like the bad guys care. dry.gif

I think the biggest flaw in Wrath's plan is something else. It seems that opening the Doors is an important part of the transmutation Father is trying to do (and I doubt he's actually trying to make a giant Philosoper's Stone -- that seems to have been the by-product of FAILURE at Xerxes, if you follow me...Father most likely wants to become God...) -- and if the transmutation goes through, everyone in Amestris dies, including Riza. If Roy finds out about that, no way he'll participate, because Riza will just end up dead, or as good as dead, anyway.

Really, Marcoh is being a moron...he HAS to get the information he knows about Father's plan out to the wider world ASAP, because that's the best way to stop it. So Scar drops in on him, and what does he say? "Please kill me". A smarter person would have said, "Hey, these guys ruined Ishbal! Want to make them really mad? Go tell everyone you can find all about this -- especially alchemists! Tell them not to do a human transmutation for them UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, or everyone dies!"

Father's plan would have a much harder time going through if certain people would just spill what they know, but Marcoh's too guilt-stricken to think and Hoho's just not talking. Stupid, stupid people! (or whatever Hoho is.) mad.gif

Of course Father's plan may be harder to derail than that, but still -- Marcoh and Hoho have vital information and they're just stitting on it. mad.gif THOUGHTLESS FOOLS!
Nepharski
QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 17 2006, 04:09 PM) [snapback]364763[/snapback]

I think the biggest flaw in Wrath's plan is something else. It seems that opening the Doors is an important part of the transmutation Father is trying to do (and I doubt he's actually trying to make a giant Philosoper's Stone -- that seems to have been the by product of FAILURE at Xerxes, if you follow me...Father most likely wants to become God...) -- and if the transmutation goes through, everyone in Amestris dies, including Riza. If Roy finds out about that, no way he'll participate, because Riza will just end up dead, or as good as dead, anyway.

Ah, but we don't know what Wrath's plan is for Riza, so speculating on it's flaws is relatively useless at this time. I'm fairly certain that he's just keeping her close by to stop Roy from going AWOL.

I think Father wants to become a god as well.

Is there some reason Monster Envy keeps saying all the stuff I also think? What, can you read my mind!? SPEAK, FOUL DWIMMERLAKE!!!

I believe that Hohenheim and Father are two sides of the same coin. It can't be merely a coincidence that they look like each other and know each other. I'm pretty sure that they are the Sages.

They could also be angels come to Earth, albeit Father is a fallen one.
Keoni

[quote]
I also wonder if the Fuhrer isn't going to try to kill Riza at some point ... "I WILL make him (Roy) open the doors." Roy is around the Elrics all the time, he already KNOWS Human transmutation of the dead doesn't work so what would make him behave irrationally enough to try it anyway? [/quote]

Presumably, since Wrath is Father's offspring, he knows a heckuva lot about human transmutation. Ed's already shown that you can open the Doors without trying to resurrect someone, when he transmuted himself into himself (and did the same for Ling and Envy).

So Wrath doesn't have to kill Riza, he just has to tell Roy, "Transmute yourself into yourself using this array I'm going to show you, or the Lieutenant will be beside herself -- and I mean that LITERALLY...(draws swords)" blink.gif

Presto, Doors are open.


[/quote]

I dont think Bradley will want to kill Riza, Hes using her to keep Roy in check. Shell be no good to him when shes dead.

As for opening the doors, hell need to get Roy desperate enough to risk it. What about Havoc? Roy wants to get a stone so he can fixhim, right? Maybe thats how Bradley will convince him.
MonsterEnvy
[quote name='Nepharski' post='364778' date='Mar 17 2006, 05:22 PM']
Is there some reason Monster Envy keeps saying all the stuff I also think? What, can you read my mind!? SPEAK, FOUL DWIMMERLAKE!!!

I believe that Hohenheim and Father are two sides of the same coin. It can't be merely a coincidence that they look like each other and know each other. I'm pretty sure that they are the Sages.

They could also be angels come to Earth, albeit Father is a fallen one.
[/quote]
Ummm... i'm not sure i'm a dwimmerlake... (definition?) tongue.gif
Can we just go with articulate?
i sort of doubt that they're "angels" or were at one point anything other than normal people/a normal person. From Ed's convo with Envy it gluttony it really does seem like a) Father was a normal Xerxian cool.gif He performed the transmutation c) he know how alcehmy works, therefor could have taught it and d) he created hohenheim (refers as "it", surprised that "it" survived, so he obviously hasn't seen hoho in a while (probably b/c he was teaching alchemy in Xing)
[quote name='Keoni' date='Mar 17 2006, 05:27 PM' post='364782']
[quote]
I also wonder if the Fuhrer isn't going to try to kill Riza at some point ... "I WILL make him (Roy) open the doors." Roy is around the Elrics all the time, he already KNOWS Human transmutation of the dead doesn't work so what would make him behave irrationally enough to try it anyway? [/quote]

Presumably, since Wrath is Father's offspring, he knows a heckuva lot about human transmutation. Ed's already shown that you can open the Doors without trying to resurrect someone, when he transmuted himself into himself (and did the same for Ling and Envy).

So Wrath doesn't have to kill Riza, he just has to tell Roy, "Transmute yourself into yourself using this array I'm going to show you, or the Lieutenant will be beside herself -- and I mean that LITERALLY...(draws swords)" blink.gif

Presto, Doors are open.


[/quote]

I dont think Bradley will want to kill Riza, Hes using her to keep Roy in check. Shell be no good to him when shes dead.

As for opening the doors, hell need to get Roy desperate enough to risk it. What about Havoc? Roy wants to get a stone so he can fixhim, right? Maybe thats how Bradley will convince him.
[/quote]
Roy knows perfectly well that a stone requires a large number of souls. It's not just made by opening the doors. And, Redthorn meant that King would only threaten to kill Riza, to make Roy transmute himself. or, possibly, he'll make Riza die in some (apparently) totally unrelated incident, and then convientlly allow mustang to "accidentally" discover a transmutation array. Something like that...
Keoni
QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 17 2006, 05:28 PM) [snapback]364784[/snapback]


Roy knows perfectly well that a stone requires a large number of souls. It's not just made by opening the doors. And, Redthorn meant that King would only threaten to kill Riza, to make Roy transmute himself. or, possibly, he'll make Riza die in some (apparently) totally unrelated incident, and then convientlly allow mustang to "accidentally" discover a transmutation array. Something like that...


Sorry, I was a little vague on that. What I meant was Roy wants a philosopher stone to cure Havoc (its important to the storyline I just know it!) and is prepared to do what it takes. By creating a stone, youll need to sacrifice souls, by sacrifising the souls youll open the doors, right?

So what I meant was that Bradley will let Roy create a stone, opening the doors as a side effect

or someting like that
Nepharski
QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Mar 17 2006, 04:28 PM) [snapback]364784[/snapback]

Ummm... i'm not sure i'm a dwimmerlake... (definition?) tongue.gif
Can we just go with articulate?
i sort of doubt that they're "angels" or were at one point anything other than normal people/a normal person. From Ed's convo with Envy it gluttony it really does seem like a) Father was a normal Xerxian cool.gif He performed the transmutation c) he know how alcehmy works, therefor could have taught it and d) he created hohenheim (refers as "it", surprised that "it" survived, so he obviously hasn't seen hoho in a while (probably b/c he was teaching alchemy in Xing)

Well, they're certainly not normal people any more.

I have no idea what Dwimmerlake means. They said it in one of the old Lord of the Rings cartoons, and it seemed to fit the bill.
Jedi28
MonsterEnvy- Thanks about the gold watch thing, I figured it was just a translation. As for the rest of your post, laugh.gif laugh.gif I can actually picture the Fuhrer saying something like that to Roy!

"Begone foul Dwimmerlake, Lord of the Carrion, leave the dead in peace" biggrin.gif

I forgot about Roy wanting to heal Havoc. That's another good way to get Roy to open the doors. ESPECIALLY because Roy knows the Homunculi have stones in them. The Fuhrer can just say "Hey, what if I gave you a no risk way to open the doors and get what you need to heal Havoc?"
Redthorn
QUOTE
Ummm... i'm not sure i'm a dwimmerlake... (definition?)


That's from Eowyn's great speech that Peter Jackson left out of Return of the King. (For which he should be shot. And then resurrected, because otherwise, it's a great movie.) "Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, Lord of Carrion! Leave the dead in peace!" That was right before she and Merry tag-teamed the Nazghul king.

Pulled off the net:

QUOTE
Dwimmerlaik: A contemptuous title for the Lord of the Nazgl. A title of the Lord of the Nazgl, granted him in defiance by owyn in her guise as Dernhelm during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. It means 'phantom', and is derived from the Old English word gedwimer, 'sorcery'.


I suspect the word that was wanted was "Doppleganger," but maybe someone thinks you're a Nazghul wink.gif

As for what Wrath intends for Riza -- possibly he has something strange and nefarious in mind, but up front it looks like a simple hostage taking. Even Ed sees that much, and he's not the brightest bulb in terms of thinking tactically.

(Ed: "Yikes, Bradley has taken Hawkeye hostage! That monster! I'll resign my commission and foil his plans and I'll tell him so right to his face! Because there is no one he can use as a hostage against me!" mad.gif
Bradley: "I guess that 'child genius' thing is kind of an exaggeration, eh?" rolleyes.gif )

(Back, Ed fangirls! I love Ed too, I just like trash-talking my favorite characters. If they weren't flawed I wouldn't love them so.)
Jedi28
trashtalking favorite characters is fun. Yes, Ed is not always the brightest bulb. I love the scene in the hallway right after that though:

Ed: Quick give us some money!
Roy: Why?
Ed: Don't ask questions, just give it to us! Is this all you have? What are you cheap?
Roy: What are you, gangsters?
Redthorn
QUOTE(Jedi28 @ Mar 17 2006, 09:29 PM) [snapback]364871[/snapback]

Ed: Don't ask questions, just give it to us! Is this all you have? What are you cheap?
Roy: What are you, gangsters?


If Roy weren't so shaken, he'd probably have been more sarcastic: "No more allowance for you, Fullmetal. You haven't finished your weekly chores yet. Now go pick up your room, take out the garbage, and feed Black Hayate. And clean the cat poop out of Al while you're at it."
MonsterEnvy
QUOTE(Redthorn @ Mar 17 2006, 07:11 PM) [snapback]364861[/snapback]

QUOTE
Ummm... i'm not sure i'm a dwimmerlake... (definition?)


That's from Eowyn's great speech that Peter Jackson left out of Return of the King. (For which he should be shot. And then resurrected, because otherwise, it's a great movie.) "Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, Lord of Carrion! Leave the dead in peace!" That was right before she and Merry tag-teamed the Nazghul king.

Pulled off the net:

QUOTE
Dwimmerlaik: A contemptuous title for the Lord of the Nazgl. A title of the Lord of the Nazgl, granted him in defiance by owyn in her guise as Dernhelm during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. It means 'phantom', and is derived from the Old English word gedwimer, 'sorcery'.


I suspect the word that was wanted was "Doppleganger," but maybe someone thinks you're a Nazghul

AAAH!. I can't believe i didn't recognize that! LOTR is my serious fandom (FMA is a bit more like a hobby-ish thing, but since there's actually new material coming out, i'm more active around there...) and i love Eowyn! *rereads scene* ah, how wonderful! Eowyn wub.gif Faramir 4EVER. Yep, that's my pairing...

Anyway...
@Keoni: We don't know if transmuting the stone requires the doors to be opened. It might, but, then again, you're not actually transmuting a human. You're just condensing a whole bunch of souls. It probably does require the doors... but it would also require a bunch of sacrifices, and Mustang wouldn't kill that many people just for Havoc. Mustang already knows about the doors, and the basics about transmuting the stone, so he couldn't be "tricked" into it. If he does open the doors, it would be to 1) Bring a dead Riza back or 2) to gain "true knowledge" to help himself fight the homunculi/become Fuhrer.
Acerbus
Hey, there! new member Acerbus here (its latin, look it up). Just finished reading straight through from the beginning all 57 chapters of FMA, and lo and behold, the shower scene with Riza catches my eye!! Aside from the graceful curves and gorgeous blonde hair biggrin.gif , that 'advanced' Flame sigil really perked my interest.

My theory?--It dosen't seem Ishvarite in origin. Their transmutation designs seem to involve "tribal" type designs that feature lots of sharp curves, points, eccentric circles, and other designs like snakes and such. No where in any Ishvarite art in the series did I see any mathematical designs like the more "scientific" works of Amestris. However......

On the chapter where ed travels to Xerxes, he sees the remains of an old transmutation circle on the walls of the ruins. On that circle, there were not only geometric designs like in Amestris, but also non geometric designs like those of Ishvall. Perhaps the proof in the pudding, so to speak, is that both the Xerxes ruins and Rizas design featured A LOT OF WRITING around the outside circle (see ch 57 pg 31, and also ch 27 pg 39 ).

Is it possible that Riza's design is of Xerxes origin? Is her ancestry linked to Xerxes? maby...

I do remember a chapter a while back where it stated that when Xerxes was destroyed, those that fled the destruction ran away to other nearby nations INCLUDING Amestris, and whats more, I think it also stated that Amestris was orignially made up of portions of the various surrounding nations including Xerxes. True, Father is the one who probably originally founded the nation with Centeral as its capital--Centeral first becoming a powerful economic/military city-state, then expanding its territory outward to create a future giagantic transmutation circle....

Point is, I think the design is of Xerxes origin, and with the more advanced and complicated 'flame' design on her back, she certainly may have knowledge of how to control fire (or more accuratley, like roy, control the flow and condensation of oxygen and hydrogen, and then ignite it), and since her design is more detailed, it may mean she knows more about how to control hydrogen atoms but cant BECAUSE OF HER LEFT SHOULDER SCAR...

This brings me to my final theory, or more accuratley, a fantasy:
Roy can control hydrogen atoms------but do you know what happens when a hydrogen atom is FUSED WITH ANOTER ONE??
Yes...A HYDROGEN BOMB EXPLOSION!!!

Imagine if Mei can heal that scar and return Liza's sigil to normal....what awsome power that would be!!
Instant hydrogen bomb at the snap of ones fingers!!! (at a far distance, of course!!)

Then again, the salamander may suggest AN AQUATIC/WATER BASED ALCHEMY, maby the ability to control water.....
That would make mean/ill/rash "Flame Alchemist' Roy a perfect fit for nice/calm/calculating "Water Alchemist" Riza....Just like the asian Ying and Yang, the perfect harmony of exact opposites....yeah, that's probably what it will be

Just remember, you heard it here first!!!
MonsterEnvy
QUOTE(Acerbus @ Mar 18 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]365185[/snapback]

Hey, there! new member Acerbus here (its latin, look it up). Just finished reading straight through from the beginning all 57 chapters of FMA, and lo and behold, the shower scene with Riza catches my eye!! Aside from the graceful curves and gorgeous blonde hair biggrin.gif , that 'advanced' Flame sigil really perked my interest.

My theory?--It dosen't seem Ishvarite in origin. Their transmutation designs seem to involve "tribal" type designs that feature lots of sharp curves, points, eccentric circles, and other designs like snakes and such. No where in any Ishvarite art in the series did I see any mathematical designs like the more "scientific" works of Amestris. However......

On the chapter where ed travels to Xerxes, he sees the remains of an old transmutation circle on the walls of the ruins. On that circle, there were not only geometric designs like in Amestris, but also non geometric designs like those of Ishvall. Perhaps the proof in the pudding, so to speak, is that both the Xerxes ruins and Rizas design featured A LOT OF WRITING around the outside circle (see ch 57 pg 31, and also ch 27 pg 39 ).
Is it possible that Riza's design is of Xerxes origin? Is her ancestry linked to Xerxes? maby...

Latin wriiting is by no means only Xerxian. It's on the Silver alchemist's palms, as well as a number of other complicated transmutation circles.
Also, all alchemy is Xerxian. The Sages taugh alchemy to Amestris and Xing, and there is know way that she could directly trace her ancestry to "beyond recorded history" or have some family tradition of Xerxian alchemy . Simply far too unlikely.
QUOTE(Acerbus @ Mar 18 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]365185[/snapback]

Point is, I think the design is of Xerxes origin, and with the more advanced and complicated 'flame' design on her back, she certainly may have knowledge of how to control fire (or more accuratley, like roy, control the flow and condensation of oxygen and hydrogen, and then ignite it), and since her design is more detailed, it may mean she knows more about how to control hydrogen atoms but cant BECAUSE OF HER LEFT SHOULDER SCAR...

okay, a few misconceptions here. Mei probably can't heal scars. The "cycles" are only disrupted in their flow when a limb is actually damaged (I think). I sort of doubt that she would also be able to restore the tattoo- even if she could heal it, it would probably just be skin.
Read my post, here, about the symbology of Riza's tattoo. More complicated does not necessarily mean more powerful.
QUOTE(Acerbus @ Mar 18 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]365185[/snapback]

This brings me to my final theory, or more accuratley, a fantasy:
Roy can control hydrogen atoms------but do you know what happens when a hydrogen atom is FUSED WITH ANOTER ONE??
Yes...A HYDROGEN BOMB EXPLOSION!!!

Imagine if Mei can heal that scar and return Riza's sigil to normal....what awsome power that would be!!
Instant hydrogen bomb at the snap of ones fingers!!! (at a far distance, of course!!)

Um. You're not quite clear on how a hydrogen bomb works. Yes, hydrogen atoms do fuse, but the fuse because they're traveling at immensely high speeds, and collide. These collisions produce huge amounts of energy which is released in the form of light and heat. Roy's alchemy controls the amount of oxygen, not hydrogen, and he only changes the concentration in different places- normally around people. Besides, one atomic bomb destroyed a city. A hydrogen bomb is incalculably more powerful. To keep from being killed, or burnt to a husk, or something, roy would need to be so far away that the idea is laughable.
QUOTE(Acerbus @ Mar 18 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]365185[/snapback]

Then again, the salamander may suggest AN AQUATIC/WATER BASED ALCHEMY, maby the ability to control water.....
That would make mean/ill/rash "Flame Alchemist' Roy a perfect fit for nice/calm/calculating "Water Alchemist" Riza....Just like the asian Ying and Yang, the perfect harmony of exact opposites....yeah, that's probably what it will be

Just remember, you heard it here first!!!

Salamanders have always represented fire. The sigil on Riza's back is identical to the sigil on Roy's glove. Anyway, Riza probably isn't an alchemist. She's never displayed any sort of alchemic prowess, and her grandfather would have mentioned something to mustang, i'm sure.
Acerbus
ouch....totally torn apart!! well, its ok! still though, I'd like to see a water alchemist....
MonsterEnvy
Yes, it would be interesting, and if we're very very lucky we might get one in the ishval flashback (unlikely b/c it's desert, tho.) After that, we won't get a new important character in the last, say 20 chapters. Everyone who's important should have been foreshadowed at least already.
Nepharski
Welcome Acerbus! An excellent choice of avatar, if I do say so myself (Bradleyfan).

Actually, despite the usual stereotype, a water alchemist could end up being quite powerful. I mean, for example, 90% of the Human body is water, right? Imagine, on the battle field, you could dehydrate your enemies to exhaustion, or even death.

Actually, I have a new theory as to Riza's tatoo; is there such a thing as negating alchemy? Perhaps her tatoo is there to insure Roy's flames don't hurt her, sort of like an alchemic sheild.
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