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Blitz
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Jan 20 2006, 06:19 PM) [snapback]340688[/snapback]

*touched* You guys make me want to cry. T__T

Umeko's working on it!! SORRY WE'RE SO LATE OMG. Will never happen again...hopefully.

I'm just glad you guys are even translating for us. If it weren't for ZOMG, I would have probably been REALLY depressed...
Dark_Fishie
Can someone upload the HQ RAW again please? I'm late coming to this chapter this month so I missed it. Thank you so much!!!!

and to CSakuraS and Umeko: you guys are the greatest! I'm just amazed that people would take their own time to scanlate such good-quality work. It is always difficult to transfer as much meaning as possible from one language to another, so thank you thank you thank you!!! biggrin.gif

Edit Jan10 2230: Chapter55 is now out from ZOMGFTA
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Jan 20 2006, 05:19 PM) [snapback]340688[/snapback]

*touched* You guys make me want to cry. T__T

Umeko's working on it!! SORRY WE'RE SO LATE OMG. Will never happen again...hopefully.


*pets* you know we love you guys... *does to download 55* lol its almost about that time for 56 XD!!!
Qeomash
Yay ZOMG! Good chapter!
Antimony
Hey, did anybody else notice on page 25, Ed is sitting in the same position that Truth always sits in? Al's body was doing the same thing when he saw him at the Gate in Ch. 54. I swear it means something important, but what??

And somebody else mentioned a theory of Scar hiding Mei inside Al's body. That makes a lot of sense to me now after reading their dialogue again. But how long will she go unnoticed by the homunculi?

So in Ch. 56 we should see Wrath and Roy again. I hope he gets to talk with the Elrics soon, they have a lot to discuss. Ed still hasn't told Al about finding his body yet, either, and that's going to be pretty important. And poor Gluttony's running out of lives, so he may be about to die soon.

Is it really almost February?? Wow, the time just flew by!
MasterKris
QUOTE
Is it really almost February?? Wow, the time just flew by!

Hehehehee, and I'm happy that the next chapter will come out on my b-day~ tongue.gif
Sensenic
QUOTE(Antimony @ Jan 22 2006, 06:53 PM) [snapback]341339[/snapback]

Hey, did anybody else notice on page 25, Ed is sitting in the same position that Truth always sits in? Al's body was doing the same thing when he saw him at the Gate in Ch. 54. I swear it means something important, but what??

Noticed, altho' in another way.
Feel free to comment. happy.gif
It's true that Al's body and Truth-kun also sit like this.... hmmm...
QUOTE(Antimony @ Jan 22 2006, 06:53 PM) [snapback]341339[/snapback]

And somebody else mentioned a theory of Scar hiding Mei inside Al's body. That makes a lot of sense to me now after reading their dialogue again. But how long will she go unnoticed by the homunculi?

Yep, I was gonna post about that too. I thought he meant to escape, but certainly he didn't. And now Al's comment might be referring not only to Scar throwing his head but also... Hmm, hmm ( u_u)

Whatever. Big thx to ZOMGFTA girls! And don't be sorry, I'm glad it was like this because this way the thrill lasted longer, enough to make all these "Oh? Is it almost february already?" thoughts appear. Yay!

One thing, tho'... (to CSakuraS if you come by and happen to read this) I didn't like that you changed (in page 31) Gluttony's "Itadakimaaaa...(su)" for "I'm digging in!"... Well, I dunno about the rest of people here, but generally in fanscanlations "basic" Japanese things/words/expressions like this one are kept and I like it so. The more truthful to the original the better. And, hey, you even kept Greed calling himself "Greed sama" and Mei Chan's "Edward-sama". Or, in other chapters, the term "rentanjutsu", for that matter (altho' for different reasons, I know).

But well, that's just my humble opinion.
Rasputin42x69
QUOTE(Antimony @ Jan 22 2006, 09:53 AM) [snapback]341339[/snapback]

Hey, did anybody else notice on page 25, Ed is sitting in the same position that Truth always sits in? Al's body was doing the same thing when he saw him at the Gate in Ch. 54. I swear it means something important, but what??


Similar, yet different. Al had left-elbow on left knee, whereas Edo had right-on-right.

But the major difference I see here is that while Al's right leg was folded in front of him, Ed's left leg was behind him.

Al == Contemplation. Ed == Contemplation+ready-to-pounce. biggrin.gif
FullMetal_Stella
Chapter 55 was SO exciting and SO good!! I love Arakawa-sensei's work!! smile.gif
Chiyo
Although I did enjoy this chapter (heck I like em all) it did seem to be a bit thin on the ground although it had the same amount of pages as the others. I suppose it is because of all the fighting thats involved which is good, but I can't wait for the next one.
Enderz
where can i read/download chapter 55, i've been looking for it for over a week now and have been waiting for it for over a month!
Kirara
I am almost positive Mei is in Al's armor. In fact I posted this on LJ when the chapter was first translated by Tobu Ishi Not only does Scar say Mei would not be safe with him, after the explosion instead of reaching for his helmet, Al reaches inside his armor as though something is inside.

Here for reference:

http://pictures.greatestjournal.com/userimg/5485462/603343
AA battery
QUOTE(Kirara @ Jan 23 2006, 07:29 PM) [snapback]342067[/snapback]

I am almost positive Mei is in Al's armor. In fact I posted this on LJ when the chapter was first translated by Tobu Ishi Not only does Scar say Mei would not be safe with him, after the explosion instead of reaching for his helmet, Al reaches inside his armor as though something is inside.

Here for reference:

http://pictures.greatestjournal.com/userimg/5485462/603343


could be... but somehoiw I doubt that.
Kirara
QUOTE
could be... but somehoiw I doubt that.


But why? Do you think Mei is with Scar, after Scar himself said he could not protect her in his current condition and he had no intention of going to the surface. If Scar could protect Mei than I do think she would have went with him. However giving what Scar said, Mei is probably the safest in Al's chest cavity than she is anywhere else at the moment. Both Scar and Al's objective would be to keep Mei safe.

Also as that picture referenced why would Al reach inside his armor instead of going for his helmet. Arakawa never draws or writes anything without reason so I think there is a reason to that.

Of course I am not 100% certain, but I am about 80%. I guess we will find out in chapter 56.
Tombow
QUOTE(Enderz @ Jan 23 2006, 07:57 PM) [snapback]342024[/snapback]

where can i read/download chapter 55, i've been looking for it for over a week now and have been waiting for it for over a month!

@Enderz - Ahem... As has been discussed on this thread (hint...you didn't even read any of the posts on this thread didn't you.. laugh.gif ) it's up at ZOMGFTA now. And also, other versions of scanlations are available and download links for those are on last few pages of this thread. smile.gif
Sensenic
QUOTE(Kirara @ Jan 24 2006, 02:19 PM) [snapback]342302[/snapback]

QUOTE
could be... but somehoiw I doubt that.


But why? Do you think Mei is with Scar, after Scar himself said he could not protect her in his current condition and he had no intention of going to the surface. If Scar could protect Mei than I do think she would have went with him. However giving what Scar said, Mei is probably the safest in Al's chest cavity than she is anywhere else at the moment. Both Scar and Al's objective would be to keep Mei safe.

Also as that picture referenced why would Al reach inside his armor instead of going for his helmet. Arakawa never draws or writes anything without reason so I think there is a reason to that.

Of course I am not 100% certain, but I am about 80%. I guess we will find out in chapter 56.

Well, pretty good arguments you give there, indeed... *approves* tongue.gif

Yeah, I also believe that Mei is in Al now. Plus, remember that Al had just told Scar that the bad guys wouldn't kill him for the time being, so Scar probably went 2+2=4 and...

Yup ( u_u). Hah! We outsmarted Arakawa sensei!

-ehem- No. Sorry. tongue.gif
MasterKris
whoa!! good eyesight, Kirara-san!!
Never noticed... ha....
TimothyLeary
where can i find chapter 55 to read
Tombow
QUOTE(TimothyLeary @ Jan 25 2006, 12:17 AM) [snapback]342752[/snapback]

where can i find chapter 55 to read

*ahem... feels like I'm on the "repeat" mode*

@TimothyLeary - It's up on ZOMGFTA site now. And also, other versions of scanlations are available and download links for those are on last several pages of this thread. smile.gif
AA battery
QUOTE(Tombow @ Jan 24 2006, 11:07 PM) [snapback]342774[/snapback]

QUOTE(TimothyLeary @ Jan 25 2006, 12:17 AM) [snapback]342752[/snapback]

where can i find chapter 55 to read

*ahem... feels like I'm on the "repeat" mode*

@TimothyLeary - It's up on ZOMGFTA site now. And also, other versions of scanlations are available and download links for those are on last several pages of this thread. smile.gif



omg!!! THEY ARE DOING POKEMON!!! ♥ ♥ ♥ So much LOVE! >w<~

To Kirara: Ahhh I see. Now I am convinced too! biggrin.gif
Kirara
Now that I've convinced everyone watch I'll be wrong tongue.gif

Of course I am not sure how Mei will react when she realizes she is in Al. I guess she will freak out unless Xiao Mei can tell her that Al is a good guy. I am hoping that Mei will get to know the real Ed and Al this way.
Alxchemist
QUOTE(TimothyLeary @ Jan 25 2006, 12:17 AM) [snapback]342752[/snapback]

where can i find chapter 55 to read



ITS ON A MSN GROUP CALLED

fullmetal alchemist

THEY GET IT OUT UNDER A WEEK AFTER IT CAME OUT
IN JAPAN. ITS ONLY EDITED BUT U GET IT.
Nepharski
I've read it now. My guess? Gluttony is dead, or just about. He was a failure as a gate, but Father obviously kept him around to be a feild agent and dispose of evidence. However, it seems Gluttony's next death will be his last. I wouldn't be surprised if Father killed him himself. He is now useless, unless Father has another Gluttony PS on hand.

That Greed is the same one as before, albeit he has no memories from that body (His former, fuzzy jacket self). Wikipedia seems obsessed with stating that he is a completely new Greed.
yaminogame
YAY Chapter 55!
MasterKris
QUOTE
omg!!! THEY ARE DOING POKEMON!!! ♥ ♥ ♥ So much LOVE! >w<~

OT:GASP!! THEY'RE DOING POKÉMON!! THE SPECIAL VERSION!! I LUV THAT MANGA!! AND IT'S THE JOHTO VERSION TOO!! CAN'T WAIT! It has been what? around 5 years since I read the last of the Kanto version~!! Compared to the anime, this manga is NOT RETARDED!!
AA battery
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Jan 25 2006, 11:28 AM) [snapback]342929[/snapback]

I've read it now. My guess? Gluttony is dead, or just about. He was a failure as a gate, but Father obviously kept him around to be a feild agent and dispose of evidence. However, it seems Gluttony's next death will be his last. I wouldn't be surprised if Father killed him himself. He is now useless, unless Father has another Gluttony PS on hand.

That Greed is the same one as before, albeit he has no memories from that body (His former, fuzzy jacket self). Wikipedia seems obsessed with stating that he is a completely new Greed.


omg, discrimination against the fat people! *gets bricked*



and I found a typo on page 32 D:
Usefuk -> Useful
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Jan 26 2006, 01:45 AM) [snapback]343267[/snapback]

QUOTE(Nepharski @ Jan 25 2006, 11:28 AM) [snapback]342929[/snapback]

I've read it now. My guess? Gluttony is dead, or just about. He was a failure as a gate, but Father obviously kept him around to be a feild agent and dispose of evidence. However, it seems Gluttony's next death will be his last. I wouldn't be surprised if Father killed him himself. He is now useless, unless Father has another Gluttony PS on hand.

That Greed is the same one as before, albeit he has no memories from that body (His former, fuzzy jacket self). Wikipedia seems obsessed with stating that he is a completely new Greed.


omg, discrimination against the fat people! *gets bricked*



and I found a typo on page 32 D:
Usefuk -> Useful



i think that Father can create PS's at will... so it doesn't matter if Gluttony dies.... he probably will rather soon i'm thinking but not before some crazy battle.... and that only if Father doesn't like... heal him or whatever....
Full Metal Elf
Hmm...good observation with the Mei thing in Al...I need to look at that again...
Nepharski
QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Jan 26 2006, 08:31 AM) [snapback]343335[/snapback]
i think that Father can create PS's at will... so it doesn't matter if Gluttony dies.... he probably will rather soon i'm thinking but not before some crazy battle.... and that only if Father doesn't like... heal him or whatever....

Really? Where does he produce all those people from? He needs ingrediants.
Sikiu-San
I have a theory about how greed lost his memory. This may be a spoiler for thoes who have not seen all of the anime so be warned ph34r.gif and sorry if someone already posted this theory ^^;;; this might not need to be in a spoiler but i rather be safe then somone yelling at me -.-



[spoiler] Around episode 50 or 51 hoho was talking to ed about how traveling through the gate works and how your mind and soul can be in one side but your body on the other, its the same thing with greed. His soul and body were in this world but his mind was else where so he had no place to store the information. Once his body and soul were removed from this world and sent back to where ever homuncliu's souls go everything was stripped clean [/spoiler]
DesFS
[spoiler]
But then again, in the anime, the homoculi were created by failed human transmutation attempts whereas in the Manga 'father' created them. I can understand the gate theory in the anime, but in the manga, the homuculi are created from 'father' and aren't pre-existing.

What I'm saying is, when do the homuculi in the manga go through the gate if they were created by 'father?
[/spoiler]
Dark_Fishie
[SPOILER]I don't really remember, but in the manga didn't Ed and Al realize that Al's body still exists because his mind had to store the information somewhere? The theory can still apply since Greed's old body was destroyed, all his memories of his old life could have been destroyed with it. It would not matter if his body went through the gate or not. However, Greed's personality should remain since the soul is the same. It's just the memories that are gone. [/SPOILER]
Reika
actually, greed doesn't have a soul
AA battery
QUOTE(Reika @ Jan 29 2006, 02:20 PM) [snapback]344609[/snapback]

actually, greed doesn't have a soul


... really? I thought Lust said "we are the same like you. We have feelings, we have love for our father." Shouldn't that also imply that they have a soul too? I don't think it was mentioned in the manga that the Homunculus lack soul...
Sensenic
QUOTE(Reika @ Jan 29 2006, 11:20 PM) [snapback]344609[/snapback]

actually, greed doesn't have a soul

Arrr! Anime-facts ahoy! Shiver me timbers!

The hommunculi have a soul = a personality and whatnot, which comes from the PS, the feeling Father put in it and their own "learnings".
See Wrath's explanation for this, or how Greed's soul was together with the other souls inside his PS.

And the Doors of Truth have nuthin' to do with them hommunculi (except for Gluttony being a failed attempt whatsoever).

As Dark_Fishe says:
QUOTE(Dark_Fishie @ Jan 29 2006, 09:31 PM) [snapback]344589[/snapback]

[SPOILER]I don't really remember, but in the manga didn't Ed and Al realize that Al's body still exists because his mind had to store the information somewhere? The theory can still apply since Greed's old body was destroyed, all his memories of his old life could have been destroyed with it. It would not matter if his body went through the gate or not. However, Greed's personality should remain since the soul is the same. It's just the memories that are gone. [/SPOILER]

Indeed.

This, tho' creates a doubt... When Roy pulled the Stone from Lust and her body, the whole of it died away... brain included. Lust, then, regenerated from the Stone with all her memories the same as before... Hmmm...

Mistake?

I guess it can be explain if we ASSUME the PS can hold memories along with the soul, as long as the hommunculus does so. I mean, when Lust saw Roy was going to pull the Stone from her, she might have immediately "saved to disk/Stone" herself so she'd restore as a whole later, whereas Greed was denied to do so because of Father knows whatever alchemical properties might that boiling liquid have had, so Greed's body would have really died with all his memories and stuff, leaving only the soul behind within the PS for Father to use later.

or not. \( u_u)/
Aoko-chan
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Jan 30 2006, 06:11 PM) [snapback]344822[/snapback]



I guess it can be explain if we ASSUME the PS can hold memories along with the soul, as long as the hommunculus does so. I mean, when Lust saw Roy was going to pull the Stone from her, she might have immediately "saved to disk/Stone" herself so she'd restore as a whole later, whereas Greed was denied to do so because of Father knows whatever alchemical properties might that boiling liquid have had, so Greed's body would have really died with all his memories and stuff, leaving only the soul behind within the PS for Father to use later.

or not. \( u_u)/


Very likely. Either she *quotes Sensenic*saved to disk/stone, OR her memories are automatically saved there
Wyrd_Raven
Or it may be that once Greed was assumed back into Father, that Father did some disk cleaning, removing unnessacary "files" so that his next attempt would be more loyal. Of course the problem with Greed may not have been the files he gained by himself but rather as, he said, his nature wink.gif
AA battery
QUOTE(Wyrd_Raven @ Jan 30 2006, 09:24 AM) [snapback]344880[/snapback]

Or it may be that once Greed was assumed back into Father, that Father did some disk cleaning, removing unnessacary "files" so that his next attempt would be more loyal. Of course the problem with Greed may not have been the files he gained by himself but rather as, he said, his nature wink.gif


You computer nerds. *flees*

just kidding, I found this theory very interesting ^^
Wyrd_Raven
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Feb 1 2006, 07:02 PM) [snapback]345608[/snapback]

You computer nerds. *flees*

just kidding, I found this theory very interesting ^^


I've been found out!!! blink.gif

I do apprericate the kind words though :3
Sensenic
QUOTE(Wyrd_Raven @ Jan 30 2006, 06:24 PM) [snapback]344880[/snapback]

Or it may be that once Greed was assumed back into Father, that Father did some disk cleaning, removing unnessacary "files" so that his next attempt would be more loyal. Of course the problem with Greed may not have been the files he gained by himself but rather as, he said, his nature wink.gif

Oh, explained it better than me. Thx! happy.gif Completely agree with you, specially that part about that his greedy nature is what made him a traitor in the first place. And now he's well aware that he's in the body of a candidate to emperor of one of the most prosper countries in the World...

Father, you may be God-like, but you're an IDIOT!
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Feb 2 2006, 01:02 AM) [snapback]345608[/snapback]

You computer nerds.

*throws brick*
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Feb 2 2006, 01:02 AM) [snapback]345608[/snapback]
*flees*

*misses*

Dammit, it's what I studied, it's my job! \(`A´ )/

Why won't they understand me...? Boo-hoo T_T
Colette
[Spoiler]It was awesome! Mei finally met Ed (Poor thing, her dreams are crushed!) and Greed's just as badass as before. Personally, I think it's the same Greed as before, he just lost his memory. I also think that it's possible for Ling to control his body from time to time. It also seems that Ling still likes Ran Fan~ And poor Scar, finding out about Ishbal and Envy...[/spoiler]
AA battery
QUOTE(Summoner Colette @ Feb 2 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]346074[/snapback]

[Spoiler]It was awesome! Mei finally met Ed (Poor thing, her dreams are crushed!) and Greed's just as badass as before. Personally, I think it's the same Greed as before, he just lost his memory. I also think that it's possible for Ling to control his body from time to time. It also seems that Ling still likes Ran Fan~ And poor Scar, finding out about Ishbal and Envy...[/spoiler]



hold on a second there! Lin never mentioned that he likes Ranfan the lovey dovey way!
yoko0217
I can't wait..
emtee
I'm feeling pretty dumb for never connecting the dots all the way, but they've never really spelled this out and the anime sort of helped me come to this: The only human transmutation Ed and Al performed that night was on themselves - wasn't it? It had nothing at all to do with what they were attempting to bring back: it may have been loosely human in bodily composition but without the soul it was just transmuting base elements into another form composed of those elements. The gate opened because they accidentally transmuted themselves! They were the human alchemy performed that night.

It's really strange then I thought Ed had figured out in his way out of Gluttony that he could just transmute himself to open the gate and sacrifice parts of Envy - something I'd considered entirely new, but really he'd already done that transmutation before - only it was mostly Al that was sacrificed.


The most interesting thing, I think, is that Mei-chan's alchemy can get past Father's defense measures. Whatever that means, Father is probably from Amestris and holds the same science-based understanding of alchemy that Ed and Al do. Mei-chan's alchemic point is different in where it starts from, it has to be. Ed and Al are going to need to develop an entirely new understanding of their alchemy! And that's after being two of the most accomplished alchemists in their country!


And I still think that Hohenheim is the product of Xerxes' failed PS attempt. It still works perfectly: Father tried to create the PS doing human alchemy to open the gate, but he's arrogant so he performed the human alchemy to create himself, but not transmuting himself instead transmuting others - it's a pride thing mostly. And from Barry's adventure we know that body and soul attract each other and if Hohenheim was created using those bodies then their souls (and therefore the created PS) would be immediately attracted to him. We know there is something strange about Ho-ho (like not aging) and that Father knows of him but calls him "it" - this would actually work. Gluttony was the failed gate attempt and Father's got beef with him, wouldn't it make sense then he would further reject him ultimate failure, Hoenheim?


These waits are getting madder and madder.
Sensenic
Wow. essay!
QUOTE(emtee @ Feb 5 2006, 05:28 PM) [snapback]346844[/snapback]

I'm feeling pretty dumb for never connecting the dots all the way, but they've never really spelled this out and the anime sort of helped me come to this: The only human transmutation Ed and Al performed that night was on themselves - wasn't it? It had nothing at all to do with what they were attempting to bring back: it may have been loosely human in bodily composition but without the soul it was just transmuting base elements into another form composed of those elements. The gate opened because they accidentally transmuted themselves! They were the human alchemy performed that night.

No they didn't. They transmuted "a human body" or, more probably, a hommunculus (obviously they did it wrong because they lacked the PS), not themselves.
It was someone completely new and anonymous, not an existing human. And it couldn't be either of them cuz "it" had black hair.

It happened, tho', that Al's soul, after having payed his whole body as the price, ended up into that body, killing it in the rejection (if its own malformation didn't kill it before, that is happy.gif).
QUOTE(emtee @ Feb 5 2006, 05:28 PM) [snapback]346844[/snapback]

It's really strange then I thought Ed had figured out in his way out of Gluttony that he could just transmute himself to open the gate and sacrifice parts of Envy - something I'd considered entirely new, but really he'd already done that transmutation before - only it was mostly Al that was sacrificed.

Again, no he hadn't. He thought of the idea of transmuting himself into himself at that moment (he's a genius after all, and has to prove it from time to time happy.gif).

The other time they transmuted a human's body, believing it would be their mother's.
QUOTE(emtee @ Feb 5 2006, 05:28 PM) [snapback]346844[/snapback]

The most interesting thing, I think, is that Mei-chan's alchemy can get past Father's defense measures. Whatever that means, Father is probably from Amestris and holds the same science-based understanding of alchemy that Ed and Al do. Mei-chan's alchemic point is different in where it starts from, it has to be. Ed and Al are going to need to develop an entirely new understanding of their alchemy! And that's after being two of the most accomplished alchemists in their country!

I agree about the Elrics having to figure out from 0 what alchemy is again, in order to use it. Again, this should show the Elrics' (specially Ed's) genius.

About Mei Chan and Scar, they do Rentanjutsu. Go look in this thread a few pages before, there's a post where everything about renkinjutsu and rentanjutsu (and ougonjutsu) is explained.
QUOTE(emtee @ Feb 5 2006, 05:28 PM) [snapback]346844[/snapback]

These waits are getting madder and madder.

Yes... sleep.gif
Colette
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Feb 4 2006, 06:17 PM) [snapback]346698[/snapback]

QUOTE(Summoner Colette @ Feb 2 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]346074[/snapback]

[Spoiler]It was awesome! Mei finally met Ed (Poor thing, her dreams are crushed!) and Greed's just as badass as before. Personally, I think it's the same Greed as before, he just lost his memory. I also think that it's possible for Ling to control his body from time to time. It also seems that Ling still likes Ran Fan~ And poor Scar, finding out about Ishbal and Envy...[/spoiler]



hold on a second there! Lin never mentioned that he likes Ranfan the lovey dovey way!

Yeah, but....I think he does XD
emtee
QUOTE("Sensenic")
No they didn't. They transmuted "a human body" or, more probably, a hommunculus (obviously they did it wrong because they lacked the PS), not themselves.
It was someone completely new and anonymous, not an existing human. And it couldn't be either of them cuz "it" had black hair.

It happened, tho', that Al's soul, after having payed his whole body as the price, ended up into that body, killing it in the rejection (if its own malformation didn't kill it before, that is happy.gif).



But "human" is the entirety: body, soul, and connector mind. And transmuting "human" is what opens the gate, right? So isn't it just as likely that because the human they attempted to transmute wasn't the cause of the gate's opening - because it had no soul. Could the attempted transmutation have actually opened the gate even though it wasn't technically "human"?

Or is the homunculus the "gate opener"?
Sensenic
QUOTE(emtee @ Feb 5 2006, 08:07 PM) [snapback]346902[/snapback]

QUOTE("Sensenic")
No they didn't. They transmuted "a human body" or, more probably, a hommunculus (obviously they did it wrong because they lacked the PS), not themselves.
It was someone completely new and anonymous, not an existing human. And it couldn't be either of them cuz "it" had black hair.

It happened, tho', that Al's soul, after having payed his whole body as the price, ended up into that body, killing it in the rejection (if its own malformation didn't kill it before, that is happy.gif).



But "human" is the entirety: body, soul, and connector mind. And transmuting "human" is what opens the gate, right? So isn't it just as likely that because the human they attempted to transmute wasn't the cause of the gate's opening - because it had no soul. Could the attempted transmutation have actually opened the gate even though it wasn't technically "human"?

Or is the homunculus the "gate opener"?

Er... Maybe Human Transmutation (what opens the gate) is making a human body which, theoretically, if done right would have a brain and then be able to host a mind and a soul.

Damn abstract concepts, hard to deal with...

Anyway, the Elrics were trying to transmute a whole human with all of it so it was human transmutation. Failed, but still HT. No?
AA battery
*head spins*

..... again, I came to this conclusion... WAIT FOR THE NEW DAMN CHAPTER! It's in 4 days!
emtee
QUOTE(Sensenic)
Er... Maybe Human Transmutation (what opens the gate) is making a human body which, theoretically, if done right would have a brain and then be able to host a mind and a soul.


I can see that. The gate is opened then by the creation/recreation of the "host" uh, thing, which has the ability to be human (now defining human: to house a soul. This is probably a better working defination in any case because what I'd previously posted on meant that Al wasn't human), the ability to be human being a body and mind. So the thing was the human transmutation and then the rebound was to open the gate...did Ed open the gat again then to get Al's soul? Because that'd make the soul transmutation also human transmutation, which would mess up the "host" transmutation as the gate opener unless they both open the gate which would work also and put the counts of human transmutation at two that night.

But at the same time, even though this will define Al as human, any transmutation performed on him (as Al soul + armor) is *not* human transmutation. But that still goes back to - Al can't do human transmutation to open the gate like Ed did to release them from Gluttony's stomach, so is Al human? Which...wasn't my original proposed point, but still it's discussion.

QUOTE(Sensenic)
Damn abstract concepts, hard to deal with...


smile.gif That's actually why I love FMA so much. I love getting hit from the left side by a new interpretation of something I'd accepted already as a concrete perception of an abstract concept. Hard to deal with, definatly, but fun to deal with too!

QUOTE(Sensenic)
Anyway, the Elrics were trying to transmute a whole human with all of it so it was human transmutation. Failed, but still HT. No?



I can't even tell if we're still on differing pages or the same page or something entirely different already! sad.gif




@armor-alchemist: but figuring things out ahead gives us something to do besides "ARG Wait = killing me" (which it is) xD
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