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Qeomash
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Dec 17 2005, 12:01 PM) [snapback]330572[/snapback]

Sorry? huh.gif Which facts did she ignore in that? o_O

The hommunculus-making seems pretty coherent to me so far (keeping in ming we're dealing with abstract concepts).

A hommunculus was actually a creature believed to be able to be created with Alchemy. The process believed to be required is very different than Arakawa's version.

If I remember (correct me if I'm wrong, I read about them over a year ago), it involves placing human semen and I think skin cells or hair, on a pile of compost and manure. Then, with the "proven" law of spontaneous conception, at around the full moon a small creature called a hommunculus will emerge from the pile.
AA battery
QUOTE (Qeomash @ Dec 17 2005, 06:33 PM) *
QUOTE (Sensenic @ Dec 17 2005, 12:01 PM) *

Sorry? huh.gif Which facts did she ignore in that? o_O

The hommunculus-making seems pretty coherent to me so far (keeping in ming we're dealing with abstract concepts).

A hommunculus was actually a creature believed to be able to be created with Alchemy. The process believed to be required is very different than Arakawa's version.

If I remember (correct me if I'm wrong, I read about them over a year ago), it involves placing human semen and I think skin cells or hair, on a pile of compost and manure. Then, with the "proven" law of spontaneous conception, at around the full moon a small creature called a hommunculus will emerge from the pile.


You are right.

The term appears to have been first used by the alchemist Paracelsus (Theophrastus Philippus Aureolus Bombastus von Hohenheim). He once claimed that he had created a false human being that he referred to as the homunculus. The creature was to have stood no more than 12 inches tall, and did the work usually associated with a golem. However, after a short time, the homunculus turned on its creator and ran away. The recipe consisted of a bag of bones, sperm, skin fragments and hair from any animal of which the homunculus would be a hybrid. This was to be laid in the ground surrounded by horse manure for forty days, at which point the embryo would form.
quoted from wikipedia


ETA:
replying to Sensenic's comment about PG2 (since I don't like to quote): ... good point. O_O
Aoko-chan
Yeah, it IS different from Arakawa's version.
Arakawa's versions are that 1) for the 'real' homonculi (example : Lust, Envy) the composition of the human body & PS are alchemised together and 2) Greed!Ling and Wrath, the PS is put into the body... so yeah, basically its very different
Qeomash
Yeah, the other way is a little less dramatic...

Father: Now, in a few weeks, we'll have our new Greed...
Gluttony: Can I eat the manure?
Father: No, Gluttony...
Ling from under the Manure: Mmmph!
Ed: DO I REALLY HAVE TO BE STUCK UNDER THIS FREAK'S FOOT FOR THAT LONG!??!
Envy: Hold still, Pipsqueak.

Nepharski
QUOTE(Qeomash @ Dec 17 2005, 09:12 PM) [snapback]330822[/snapback]

Yeah, the other way is a little less dramatic...

Father: Now, in a few weeks, we'll have our new Greed...
Gluttony: Can I eat the manure?
Father: No, Gluttony...
Ling from under the Manure: Mmmph!
Ed: DO I REALLY HAVE TO BE STUCK UNDER THIS FREAK'S FOOT FOR THAT LONG!??!
Envy: Hold still, Pipsqueak.

*A few weeks later.*

Greed: I'm baaaack-What the!? NO! Not on the jacket, man!
Ladymercury
QUOTE(Qeomash @ Dec 18 2005, 12:12 AM) [snapback]330822[/snapback]

Yeah, the other way is a little less dramatic...

Father: Now, in a few weeks, we'll have our new Greed...
Gluttony: Can I eat the manure?
Father: No, Gluttony...
Ling from under the Manure: Mmmph!
Ed: DO I REALLY HAVE TO BE STUCK UNDER THIS FREAK'S FOOT FOR THAT LONG!??!
Envy: Hold still, Pipsqueak.


lolz. Makes me want to draw that.
AA battery
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 18 2005, 11:21 AM) [snapback]330982[/snapback]

QUOTE(Qeomash @ Dec 17 2005, 09:12 PM) [snapback]330822[/snapback]

Yeah, the other way is a little less dramatic...

Father: Now, in a few weeks, we'll have our new Greed...
Gluttony: Can I eat the manure?
Father: No, Gluttony...
Ling from under the Manure: Mmmph!
Ed: DO I REALLY HAVE TO BE STUCK UNDER THIS FREAK'S FOOT FOR THAT LONG!??!
Envy: Hold still, Pipsqueak.

*A few weeks later.*

Greed: I'm baaaack-What the!? NO! Not on the jacket, man!


Hohenheim: Hmm... I really like the nice view up here. Can I stay here for another few weeks?

~~~

May Cheng: Xiao May~ ;-;

~~~

Roy: .....
Wrath: ....
Roy: .... Is this supposed to be a staring contest? o_O We have been staring at each other like this for weeks....
Wrath: .... You got tired already? *opens eye patch*
Roy: .... I admit defeat in this staring contest. *passes out*

~~~

Riza: ... Just how much longer am I getting locked out from the Fuhrer's room? *already dressed as a secretary with a sh!tload of weaponary hidden under her clothing somewhere*

~~~

*inside the gate*
Al: .....
Al: .....
Al: .....
Al: .....
Al: .....
Al: ..... tabete ii? *looks at the truth, while grabbing cow-sensei* (What Gluttony always asks before eating someone... )
Truth: hai~ tabete mo ii desu yo~ (Yes, you may eat... Not sure if this is correct since Al's question was informal, while the response I used was formal... cuz I am not completely sure what I should put for informal response xD Formal question would be "tabete mo ii desu ka?")
Al: *chomps on cow-sensei*

~~~

Please excuse my lame jokes. *crawls back into rabbit hole to study for chemostry final exam*
Kyo_Umerio
*kills Armor-Alchemist's Sig for reminding him or the scary Naruto Dub and whimpers* i bet i know where Hoho-papa is going... i bet theres another one of those Circles in the Mountains (the one that Ed drew in Gluttony)
Frazzie
Greed wouldn't want to go have kids anyway, so this question will most likely end up unanswered. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, Ling's personality went poof.
Qeomash
Either that, or that might be where Sloth is digging...
Nepharski
QUOTE(Qeomash @ Dec 18 2005, 09:07 PM) [snapback]331221[/snapback]

Either that, or that might be where Sloth is digging...

Hmm...then we may just get to see Hohenheim vs. Sloth.

I've always wondered if she would create a character none of the "Main" characters meet. I mean, supposed Hohenheim is the only guy who interacts with Sloth, and Ed and Al know nothing about it until later, and thus go their entire journey without once seeing or meeting Sloth, only hearing about him. That could be interesting...
AA battery
QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Dec 18 2005, 06:59 PM) [snapback]331169[/snapback]

*kills Armor-Alchemist's Sig for reminding him or the scary Naruto Dub and whimpers* i bet i know where Hoho-papa is going... i bet theres another one of those Circles in the Mountains (the one that Ed drew in Gluttony)


AH, you noticed. (BUT I LOVE THAT LINE!)

Compared to yugioh dub, naruto dub is pretty okay.... I watch it every week XD

and you don't like to make yourself type my nick in caps since I like small a's more than big A's. Now please ignore me and carry on with your discussion.
Sensenic
QUOTE(Qeomash @ Dec 18 2005, 03:33 AM) [snapback]330763[/snapback]

QUOTE(Sensenic @ Dec 17 2005, 12:01 PM) [snapback]330572[/snapback]

Sorry? huh.gif Which facts did she ignore in that? o_O

The hommunculus-making seems pretty coherent to me so far (keeping in ming we're dealing with abstract concepts).

A hommunculus was actually a creature believed to be able to be created with Alchemy. The process believed to be required is very different than Arakawa's version.

If I remember (correct me if I'm wrong, I read about them over a year ago), it involves placing human semen and I think skin cells or hair, on a pile of compost and manure. Then, with the "proven" law of spontaneous conception, at around the full moon a small creature called a hommunculus will emerge from the pile.

Ah, oh! A misunderstanding then.

I thought you meant she ignored her own FMA-Alchemy facts (equivalent trade, things transmute into things of similar nature, etc.), not "real" alchemy.

My bad. /( ;n_n)
QUOTE(Qeomash @ Dec 18 2005, 06:12 AM) [snapback]330822[/snapback]

Yeah, the other way is a little less dramatic...

Father: Now, in a few weeks, we'll have our new Greed...
Gluttony: Can I eat the manure?
Father: No, Gluttony...
Ling from under the Manure: Mmmph!
Ed: DO I REALLY HAVE TO BE STUCK UNDER THIS FREAK'S FOOT FOR THAT LONG!??!
Envy: Hold still, Pipsqueak.

L laugh.gif L!
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Dec 19 2005, 12:56 AM) [snapback]331248[/snapback]

QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Dec 18 2005, 06:59 PM) [snapback]331169[/snapback]

*kills Armor-Alchemist's Sig for reminding him or the scary Naruto Dub and whimpers* i bet i know where Hoho-papa is going... i bet theres another one of those Circles in the Mountains (the one that Ed drew in Gluttony)


AH, you noticed. (BUT I LOVE THAT LINE!)

Compared to yugioh dub, naruto dub is pretty okay.... I watch it every week XD

and you don't like to make yourself type my nick in caps since I like small a's more than big A's. Now please ignore me and carry on with your discussion.


XD!!! well Yugi-oh the Anime is horrible anyways.. so is the manga.. the only Yugioh i like is the original manga with Demented Yami who kills people *grins* he is the best.... and... Naruto Dub is horrible.. it makes me cry... i will go and destroy toonami one day for ruining my show.. i mean they cut the scene where he stabs his own hand.... they are idiots ~_~ so they get no respect from me.. and if one more poser Naruto fan tells me to "believe it!" Then i'm going to introduce them to Desert Funeral... and watch them bleed... ~_~ YAY! GAARA!!! anyways.....

aRMOR-aLCHEMIST there is that better? XD!!!!!!!

SenSenic your new Ava is Pretty Kewl and Chiyo is soo Kawaii happy.gif;;;

back ontopic now... i think Ed and Al will meet up with Sloth.. and i'm thinking soon.. maybe while "fleeing" from father they will run down the tunnel that sloth has dug on accident and will be chased by Ling.. and then it'll be Sloth and Ling/Greed Vs. Ed and Al. and then soon Glutton and Envy will follow and we will have a handicap match. until Ling takes Greed over =D just a thought..
Gizmonicgamer
Interesting. Well, I was reading up on Alchemy (school project), and on the wikipedia entry, I found something interesting, that may or may not relate to FMA.

QUOTE
The most important name in this period is Philippus Aureolus Paracelsus, (Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, 14931541) who cast alchemy into a new form, rejecting some of the occultism that had accumulated over the years and promoting the use of observations and experiments to learn about the human body. He rejected Gnostic traditions, but kept much of the Hermetical, neo-Platonic, and Pythagorean philosophies; however, Hermetical science had so much Aristotelian theory that his rejection of Gnosticism was practically meaningless. In particular, Paracelsus rejected the magic theories of Agrippa and Flamel. He did not think of himself as a magician, and scorned those who did. (Williams p.239-45)

Paracelsus pioneered the use of chemicals and minerals in medicine, and wrote "Many have said of Alchemy, that it is for the making of gold and silver. For me such is not the aim, but to consider only what virtue and power may lie in medicines." (Edwardes, p.47) His hermetical views were that sickness and health in the body relied on the harmony of man the microcosm and Nature the macrocosm. He took an approach different from those before him, using this analogy not in the manner of soul-purification but in the manner that humans must have certain balances of minerals in their bodies, and that certain illnesses of the body had chemical remedies that could cure them. (Debus & Multhauf, p.6-12) While his attempts of treating diseases with such remedies as Mercury might seem ill-advised from a modern point of view, his basic idea of chemically produced medicines has stood time surprisingly well.


Note the 'Van/Von Hohenheim' as an alternative title for his name. Considering that seems to be the primary topic at the moment for this thread (The Papa/Hohenheim discussion.) I figured I may as well post this here, as it certainly doesn't deserve an entirely new topic of its own.
ElvishVamp
Considering Wrath can't have kids and it would seem Greed!Ling was created the same way, I don't see why he should be able to. Though, you never know. It's still possible, especialy if Hohenhiem is a homunculus, but I think there's more going on there than just that.

I doubt we're going to see the answer to this one any time soon...
ElvishVamp
In the chapter where Greed "dies", doesn't Father call him "son with which I share my soul" or something like that? Or maybe I'm confusing it with something else. I'll have to look it up when I get a chance...

carla
i think my comments come a little late. when was the chapter released anyway? finals and then flying back home made it impossible for me to see it until today... but OMFG am i glad i did it. this is the best friggin' chapter ever! (or well, perhaps it's tied with 38-39 & 46-48... but it's definitely up there...)

not much to say, i just finished reading it and i'm still speechless. but i'll venture some reactions--

1. ok, so father and hoho-papa are DEFINITELY not the same person. duh! blink.gif

2. as for father's reaction to hoho-papa, i'm thinking hoho-papa might be a homunculus. i'd say pride but pride didn't sound like him that one time tongue.gif and i still think hoho-papa's not evil. pride sounded evil. i haven't read you guys' comments in this thread but i know i must not be the only one. and yes, the issue of homunculi being able to procreate keeps coming up and i thought they couldn't until a few chapters ago but hey, father himself was surprised, so what the hell. if hoho-papa's not a homunculus, he was at least created by father... or something along those lines. since father keeps referring to him as "it". and has hoho-papa been called "hohenheim of light" in the manga or is that an anime invention? i can't remember at the moment...

3. the bit about edo and aru having trisha's family name was an interesting tidbit. just reinforces the fact that hoho-papa's not really (or completely) human but i found it nice. he could've just made up a family name for himself anyway.

4. the "shooting the leader" quote... that is SO going to my quotes archive. lol laugh.gif if it were possible, ling and ed should get married and have babies. they'd be the funniest things on the face of the earth. mwahaha.

5. OMFG FATHER IS A MUTANT!!!!!! *hides* he has a third eye!! and it freakin' cries philosopher's stones!! geez, how many dead people must he have absorbed into his body for THAT to happen? is it enough with all of xerxes? ishbal? whoa. i'm going to have nightmares today. and was i the only one having dragonball flashbacks from that third eye? (nevermind-- my brain is being st00pid).

6. GREED!LING IS THE COOLEST THING SINCE COLOR TV!! and believe me when i say this-- i was a ling fan since the beginning and i don't feel sad at all... this just makes him three times more awesome. mwah. and some people thought ling was going to be killed off... nah. it doesn't seem like it will happen anytime soon now. it really does fit well with his personality if you think about it-- not that ling's evil or anything, but he has a goal and he's going to reach it, you know...

7. how can arakawa-sensei always write in an "awwwww" moment even in the middle of all this DOOOOOOOOOM and drama? when edo screamed "he has someone waiting for him!!" i went "aaaawwwww" not only for ranfan, but for winry too. because she always waits for ed and al and that just goes to show that the fact is important to ed. that he tries his best to stay alive so he can go back to her. but nevermind that now, poor ranfan-- i wonder how she'll react. breaks my heart, really ohmy.gif and what's the other guys' name? fu? something like that? will hit him hard, too.

8. ok, so ed and al are screwed because they can't use alchemy (i'm not even going to try and guess-- i have no idea how father did that. he's just all-mighty to me. an all-mighty fugly freak, but all-mighty nonetheless), but... there's still scar, isn't he? i'm just expecting him to burst into the chamber and try and blow father apart... only to be badly hurt (won't say dead, don't think he's gonna die yet) by greed, cuz greed!ling is cooooool~! tongue.gif can you tell that i really loved this chapter? smile.gif

and speaking about dubs (yeah, i just read the few previous posts biggrin.gif ), the naruto dub is pretty much ok. you haven't heard a horrible dub until you've heard the evangelion dub. OMG they killed the best anime ever. it is so sad... sad.gif *cries*
Sensenic
QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Dec 19 2005, 09:13 PM) [snapback]331414[/snapback]

SenSenic your new Ava is Pretty Kewl and Chiyo is soo Kawaii happy.gif;;;

Uh.... She ain't Chiyo... But certainly... I once saw this tag with a pic of her and Chiyo with the text "Separated at birth?" between them.

She's Yotsuba Koiwai from yotsubato!, by Kiyohiko Azuma.
One of my "top three" mangas right now (to me it's even better than Azumanga Daioh, and that's saying A LOT), altogether with Naoki Urasawa's Monster. I'll let you guess the third one... wink.gif
QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Dec 19 2005, 09:13 PM) [snapback]331414[/snapback]

back ontopic now... i think Ed and Al will meet up with Sloth.. and i'm thinking soon.. maybe while "fleeing" from father they will run down the tunnel that sloth has dug on accident and will be chased by Ling.. and then it'll be Sloth and Ling/Greed Vs. Ed and Al. and then soon Glutton and Envy will follow and we will have a handicap match. until Ling takes Greed over =D just a thought..

Betting again... I believe we're at the half-series climax, so I don't think the action is gonna get even higher. Whatever has to happen will happen and the situation will stabilize somehow (To what or how, tho', don't ask me happy.gif), so the action may move north at the beginning of the second half.
QUOTE(ElvishVamp @ Dec 20 2005, 08:31 AM) [snapback]331748[/snapback]

In the chapter where Greed "dies", doesn't Father call him "son with which I share my soul" or something like that? Or maybe I'm confusing it with something else. I'll have to look it up when I get a chance...

He means his greed which he put into Greed's PS.
QUOTE(carla @ Dec 20 2005, 09:24 AM) [snapback]331756[/snapback]

i think my comments come a little late. when was the chapter released anyway? finals and then flying back home made it impossible for me to see it until today... but OMFG am i glad i did it. this is the best friggin' chapter ever! (or well, perhaps it's tied with 38-39 & 46-48... but it's definitely up there...)

Never is late to comment FMA!
QUOTE(carla @ Dec 20 2005, 09:24 AM) [snapback]331756[/snapback]

not much to say, i just finished reading it and i'm still speechless. but i'll venture some reactions--

1. ok, so father and hoho-papa are DEFINITELY not the same person. duh! blink.gif

2. as for father's reaction to hoho-papa, i'm thinking hoho-papa might be a homunculus. i'd say pride but pride didn't sound like him that one time tongue.gif and i still think hoho-papa's not evil. pride sounded evil. i haven't read you guys' comments in this thread but i know i must not be the only one. and yes, the issue of homunculi being able to procreate keeps coming up and i thought they couldn't until a few chapters ago but hey, father himself was surprised, so what the hell. if hoho-papa's not a homunculus, he was at least created by father... or something along those lines. since father keeps referring to him as "it". and has hoho-papa been called "hohenheim of light" in the manga or is that an anime invention? i can't remember at the moment...

3. the bit about edo and aru having trisha's family name was an interesting tidbit. just reinforces the fact that hoho-papa's not really (or completely) human but i found it nice. he could've just made up a family name for himself anyway.

There are a couple of threads right now about Father and Hohenheim, and WTF are they... Everything's there.

If you want my opinion, I believe Hohenheim is human and an alchemist (Well, duh... I mean a somewhat "normal" alchemist like Ed or Al. Obviously changed somehow, so he doesn't age and is invulnerable, and waaay more powerful, but, still, a human alchemist) from what he said: (referring to Ed) "We're bound to meet again in the future as we're both alchemists..." (or similar) -> From this comment I deduce he's a Human Sacrifice too... who happens to be aware, to some extent, of Father's plans.
QUOTE(carla @ Dec 20 2005, 09:24 AM) [snapback]331756[/snapback]

4. the "shooting the leader" quote... that is SO going to my quotes archive. lol laugh.gif if it were possible, ling and ed should get married and have babies. they'd be the funniest things on the face of the earth. mwahaha.
(...)
7. how can arakawa-sensei always write in an "awwwww" moment even in the middle of all this DOOOOOOOOOM and drama? when edo screamed "he has someone waiting for him!!" i went "aaaawwwww" not only for ranfan, but for winry too. because she always waits for ed and al and that just goes to show that the fact is important to ed. that he tries his best to stay alive so he can go back to her. but nevermind that now, poor ranfan-- i wonder how she'll react. breaks my heart, really ohmy.gif and what's the other guys' name? fu? something like that? will hit him hard, too.
(...)

That's so great about Arakawa sensei... her ability to add funny and, as you say, "awwwww" moments without spoiling at all a dramatic scene... Impressive. *bows*
RocketJess
OT: <curious>

*notices Nepharski's avatar*

OMG a Commander Keen fan! ^__________^

Those games rock.
Ladymercury
QUOTE(carla @ Dec 20 2005, 03:24 AM) [snapback]331756[/snapback]

and speaking about dubs (yeah, i just read the few previous posts biggrin.gif ), the naruto dub is pretty much ok. you haven't heard a horrible dub until you've heard the evangelion dub. OMG they killed the best anime ever. it is so sad... sad.gif *cries*


Off Topic
May I mention to you that the Evangelion dub was one of ADV's first projects and that the dub in question is over 10 years old now... or well, 9 years old. Comparing that to newer dubs is comparing Gigantor to Gundam.
Has the old school VHS where the opening sequence looks like a fansub with translated text over the japanese
Antimony
Just in case nobody's seen it yet, Ch.54 is now available at the FMA MSN group! http://groups.msn.com/FullMetalAlchemist/ch54translated.msnw

*reads it all again* Wow. Still amazing.
Nepharski
OT:

QUOTE (RocketJess @ Dec 20 2005, 04:05 AM) *
<curious>

*notices Nepharski's avatar*

OMG a Commander Keen fan! ^__________^

Those games rock.

Wow.

You are the only person in the universe to identify this thing.

Congratulations. biggrin.gif
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(Antimony @ Dec 20 2005, 05:57 PM) [snapback]331887[/snapback]

Just in case nobody's seen it yet, Ch.54 is now available at the FMA MSN group! http://groups.msn.com/FullMetalAlchemist/ch54translated.msnw

*reads it all again* Wow. Still amazing.



*nods nods* and also if anyones interested.. all 54 Should be up on ReadManga.com i think...
njx
~ Post-chapt54 Speculation / Analysis, Some plot-based ideas that haven't been fully explored (SPOILER) ~



I have a couple of ideas that haven't really been fully explored/explained yet, and I thought it would be good to do a brain dump and see what people think about it all:

1) Hohenheim and Trisha not registering their marriage: DUH. If Van Hohenheim is immortal/ quasi-immortal, trying to register with the government could be somewhat difficult, don't you think? "Uh, sir, we don't have any record of you being born 40 years ago. Huh? Did you say *400* years ago? That's a pretty funny joke, sir. No, really, how old are you?" It's not surprising that Ed & Al thus don't take on his name, at least from a legal sense - he was never formally registered as their father and thus the government treated them like they were children of a single mother..

2) Hohenheim and Pinako: OK, this is a radical suggestion on my part, but imagine this: Hohenheim actually dated/married Pinako when she was young and gave birth to Winry's parents. Now, I think such an idea is RIDICULOUS but I thought I would throw it out - realize that we know VERY little about Pinako's relationship with him, and that Pinako herself seems to have quite a history, even though it's never really described. Whatever happened to Winry's grandfather? Both Winry and Ed have blond hair *and* bad tempers. They both have stubborn, obsessive personalities (Al over alchemy, Winry over automail). Again, I personally think I'm totally off on this one, but I thought I would throw it out there and see what people think.

3) I think the only realistic way out of Ed's & Al's predicament is that Hohenheim shows up and somehow saves them. Think about it - Ed & Al can't perform alchemy, are pinned down by Envy, and the famed Hohenheim (of Light? or is that an anime thing only?) is going to be showing up at their door. Iit's a prototypical/stereotypical plot twist that their perceived "enemy" turns out to be their ally. It makes sense to the point where it's nearly predictable - until Chapt 54, many thought Father was Hohenheim; only now we know otherwise. Scar & Mei-Chan are not even remotely capable of dealing with Father, given what happened to Ed & Al, so I suspect that they will only get entangled. The only evidence against this theory is that Arakawa is anything but predictable, so there is a very high chance that she will do something completely different, knowing that we anticipate this very outcome.

4) Speaking of, the conclusion of Ling's literature-oriented purpose in the story raises questions about Mei-Chan. Ling entered the picture as a replacement for Greed; what is Mei-Chan's ultimate purpose in the story? To become another homonculis? I doubt it, mainly because it would be poor storytelling to repeat the same dramatic event in another context. From what we know about Arakawa's full utilization of characters (no named character is ever completely irrelevant to the continuation of the plot), we should start theorizing how Mei-Chan fits into the puzzle. Personally, I have no idea; which is a great credit to Arakawa's storytelling skill.

5) Ran Phan (Lan Phan?) is a total wild card right now. We have no idea how she could swing on this one - will she join Ling in his form as Greed? Against him? Will her reaction be deeply personal, or simply deeply patriotic? While textual evidence leans towards the idea that (L/R)an Phan has deep emotional ties to Ling that go beyond mere citizen's servitude, we have yet to see solid proof of such. Ultimately, her stance may play a critical role in how GreedLing plays out in the remainder of the tale.

6) Compare Ling's Ouroboros mark to Lust's (see Chapt 2, Top of Page 37) and Gluttony's (ibid, mid pg 38). Note that Ling's serpent doesn't devour his own tail - it doesn't form a full circle - like that of Lust or Gluttony. Is that because he is a "hybrid" homonculis (one created from a human) like Wrath, or do you think it's simply a graphical error? [See Ch 54, pg 7 - not a great shot of Wrath's mark, but it looks like the Serpent isn't quite full-circle.]

7) Sloth's digging: Think about it - how did all of those underground tunnels come to be? It makes sense that Father created a homonculis just to do all of the digging underneath Amestris so that he could travel underground. I think that's the best current explanation of what Sloth is doing.

8) Maria Ross - she's stated that she's willing to come out of "retirement" when she can to serve Mustang whenever she could be helpful - any idea of when you think she will re-enter the story? (Personally, she's my favorite character and she gets so little love...)

Any thoughts, ideas, comments or remarks are welcome.
GodsAlchemy

"Also....just because Hohenheim may not be Pride, doesn't rule out he's a Homunculus...i'm sure it's possible to have a Homunculus not named after one of the 7 sins...."

What are the 7 sins?

Also, don't you think it is strange that the "Father" of the immortal homunculi is very similar to the real father of Ed&AL?
Do the homunculi share a connection with the Elric Brothers?
Why do the homunculi regard the brothers as precious human sacrifices/ gate openers? Is it simply because Ed opened the gate of death or is is because of Ed's mysterious transmutationor is it because of something related to Hohenheim?

Also, the Father of the homunculi previously told Greed that he would have to restore his soul before killing him. This implies that the homunculi are different pieces of the "father"'s soul. Because Hohenheim as been revealed as a homunculus, his strong resemblance to the Father might represent his soul connection to the Father. Hohenheim may even represent a GOOD part of the father's soul bacause he is relatively benign and less brutal than the Father.
Qeomash
It hasn't been proven that Hohenhiem is a homunculus...But I whouldn't be surprised if he was.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that you're right on each of the seven sins being that "sin" within Father. And it is quite possible that Hohenheim is the "good" part of Father...

Ed is a human sacrifice because he has opened the gate. Anyone who has the ability to open the gate can be a human sacrifice cantidate. Hence why Wrath has already said he'd "Try and make Mustang open the gate" to see if he has the potential.

I just had a horrible thought. Though, it may have occured to others and I just haven't noticed...

We all know that Riza has now been transferred to be a personal assistant to the Fuhrer. Now, why would he want her? His real target is to get Mustang to open the Gate...

...Wrath will kill Riza. And, with the bait of a "complete human transmutation", he will coerce Roy into attempting to bring her back to life. Therefore, forcing Mustang to open the Gate.
Sensenic
QUOTE (njx @ Dec 21 2005, 06:18 AM) *
I have a couple of ideas that haven't really been fully explored/explained yet, and I thought it would be good to do a brain dump and see what people think about it all:

1) Hohenheim and Trisha not registering their marriage: DUH. If Van Hohenheim is immortal/ quasi-immortal, trying to register with the government could be somewhat difficult, don't you think? "Uh, sir, we don't have any record of you being born 40 years ago. Huh? Did you say *400* years ago? That's a pretty funny joke, sir. No, really, how old are you?" It's not surprising that Ed & Al thus don't take on his name, at least from a legal sense - he was never formally registered as their father and thus the government treated them like they were children of a single mother..

LOL @ the registry scene
QUOTE (njx @ Dec 21 2005, 06:18 AM) *
2) Hohenheim and Pinako: OK, this is a radical suggestion on my part, but imagine this: Hohenheim actually dated/married Pinako when she was young and gave birth to Winry's parents. Now, I think such an idea is RIDICULOUS but I thought I would throw it out - realize that we know VERY little about Pinako's relationship with him, and that Pinako herself seems to have quite a history, even though it's never really described. Whatever happened to Winry's grandfather? Both Winry and Ed have blond hair *and* bad tempers. They both have stubborn, obsessive personalities (Al over alchemy, Winry over automail). Again, I personally think I'm totally off on this one, but I thought I would throw it out there and see what people think.

Whoa! You see all those red eyes in the dark, looking at you? It's the EdxWinry fans with intent to kill, for suggesting their beloved pairing could be incest...

tongue.gif

Could be... But I don't think it's going that direction. Although, of course, who knows...
\( u_u)/
QUOTE (njx @ Dec 21 2005, 06:18 AM) *
3) I think the only realistic way out of Ed's & Al's predicament is that Hohenheim shows up and somehow saves them. Think about it - Ed & Al can't perform alchemy, are pinned down by Envy, and the famed Hohenheim (of Light? or is that an anime thing only?) is going to be showing up at their door. Iit's a prototypical/stereotypical plot twist that their perceived "enemy" turns out to be their ally. It makes sense to the point where it's nearly predictable - until Chapt 54, many thought Father was Hohenheim; only now we know otherwise. Scar & Mei-Chan are not even remotely capable of dealing with Father, given what happened to Ed & Al, so I suspect that they will only get entangled. The only evidence against this theory is that Arakawa is anything but predictable, so there is a very high chance that she will do something completely different, knowing that we anticipate this very outcome.

I don't think so... Hohenheim is out there in the country (probably north) looking for an "X marks the spot" place which he had to reach partially by carriage, partially by walking (so you can tell it's probably FAR from any city).... whereas the Elrics-tachi are right down under Central.
Improbable.
QUOTE (njx @ Dec 21 2005, 06:18 AM) *
4) Speaking of, the conclusion of Ling's literature-oriented purpose in the story raises questions about Mei-Chan. Ling entered the picture as a replacement for Greed; what is Mei-Chan's ultimate purpose in the story? To become another homonculis? I doubt it, mainly because it would be poor storytelling to repeat the same dramatic event in another context. From what we know about Arakawa's full utilization of characters (no named character is ever completely irrelevant to the continuation of the plot), we should start theorizing how Mei-Chan fits into the puzzle. Personally, I have no idea; which is a great credit to Arakawa's storytelling skill.

5) Ran Phan (Lan Phan?) is a total wild card right now. We have no idea how she could swing on this one - will she join Ling in his form as Greed? Against him? Will her reaction be deeply personal, or simply deeply patriotic? While textual evidence leans towards the idea that (L/R)an Phan has deep emotional ties to Ling that go beyond mere citizen's servitude, we have yet to see solid proof of such. Ultimately, her stance may play a critical role in how GreedLing plays out in the remainder of the tale.

WAS -> "Wait And See"

It is eventually the only way to reach True (FMA) Knowledge wink.gif
QUOTE (njx @ Dec 21 2005, 06:18 AM) *
6) Compare Ling's Ouroboros mark to Lust's (see Chapt 2, Top of Page 37) and Gluttony's (ibid, mid pg 38). Note that Ling's serpent doesn't devour his own tail - it doesn't form a full circle - like that of Lust or Gluttony. Is that because he is a "hybrid" homonculis (one created from a human) like Wrath, or do you think it's simply a graphical error? [See Ch 54, pg 7 - not a great shot of Wrath's mark, but it looks like the Serpent isn't quite full-circle.]

Interesting, shall take a look at it...
QUOTE (Qeomash @ Dec 21 2005, 08:27 AM) *
w00t, new thread...

I just had a horrible thought. Though, it may have occured to others and I just haven't noticed...

We all know that Riza has now been transferred to be a personal assistant to the Fuhrer. Now, why would he want her? His real target is to get Mustang to open the Gate...

...Wrath will kill Riza. And, with the bait of a "complete human transmutation", he will coerce Roy into attempting to bring her back to life. Therefore, forcing Mustang to open the Gate.

The ph34r has been there ever since Wrath said he'd make Roy open the gates. And even more from the moment she was re-assigned.

But I don't think it ends up like that. Riza'll probably be put in danger or be used somehow to make Roy open the Gates... Pull out another Hughes and killing such a popular character (she was 3rd right behind the colonel in the 2nd poll) would be a really risky move...

I imagine the note in Gangan:
"There's no Hagaren this month (nor will be ever after) due to public lapidation of the author by the fans.
Our apologies.
/( u_u)"

laugh.gif
ElvishVamp
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

1) Hohenheim and Trisha not registering their marriage: DUH. If Van Hohenheim is immortal/ quasi-immortal, trying to register with the government could be somewhat difficult, don't you think? "Uh, sir, we don't have any record of you being born 40 years ago. Huh? Did you say *400* years ago? That's a pretty funny joke, sir. No, really, how old are you?" It's not surprising that Ed & Al thus don't take on his name, at least from a legal sense - he was never formally registered as their father and thus the government treated them like they were children of a single mother..

Lol. To be honest, I didn't even think of that. I guess it's not so much a matter of Hoheneim and Trisha didn't their marriage than they really couldn't. I still think there's more to all this though. I just can't figure out what...

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

2) Hohenheim and Pinako: OK, this is a radical suggestion on my part, but imagine this: Hohenheim actually dated/married Pinako when she was young and gave birth to Winry's parents. Now, I think such an idea is RIDICULOUS but I thought I would throw it out - realize that we know VERY little about Pinako's relationship with him, and that Pinako herself seems to have quite a history, even though it's never really described. Whatever happened to Winry's grandfather? Both Winry and Ed have blond hair *and* bad tempers. They both have stubborn, obsessive personalities (Al over alchemy, Winry over automail). Again, I personally think I'm totally off on this one, but I thought I would throw it out there and see what people think.

Though I doubt this one is at all true, it's an interesting idea and it's most definately possible. Even if this isn't exactly what happened, it could be something similar.

EdWin fans: Please don't kill me.

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

3) I think the only realistic way out of Ed's & Al's predicament is that Hohenheim shows up and somehow saves them. Think about it - Ed & Al can't perform alchemy, are pinned down by Envy, and the famed Hohenheim (of Light? or is that an anime thing only?) is going to be showing up at their door. Iit's a prototypical/stereotypical plot twist that their perceived "enemy" turns out to be their ally. It makes sense to the point where it's nearly predictable - until Chapt 54, many thought Father was Hohenheim; only now we know otherwise. Scar & Mei-Chan are not even remotely capable of dealing with Father, given what happened to Ed & Al, so I suspect that they will only get entangled. The only evidence against this theory is that Arakawa is anything but predictable, so there is a very high chance that she will do something completely different, knowing that we anticipate this very outcome.

As Sensenic said, that would be impossible right now, because Hohenhiem is in the mountains somewhere. Then again, if your theory about Sloth is true, he could always use the tunnels to get to them. And who's to say Ed and Al will escape any time soon? They could end up being stuck there, like Marco.

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

4) Speaking of, the conclusion of Ling's literature-oriented purpose in the story raises questions about Mei-Chan. Ling entered the picture as a replacement for Greed; what is Mei-Chan's ultimate purpose in the story? To become another homonculis? I doubt it, mainly because it would be poor storytelling to repeat the same dramatic event in another context. From what we know about Arakawa's full utilization of characters (no named character is ever completely irrelevant to the continuation of the plot), we should start theorizing how Mei-Chan fits into the puzzle. Personally, I have no idea; which is a great credit to Arakawa's storytelling skill.

At the moment it seems her purpose is to help Scar, but I'm sure she'll have a larger role later on in the series. She seems to know a lot about alchemy that most of the alchemists we've seen so far. Her transmutation method with the kunai intrigues me. Who knows, maybe she knows how to reverse whatever Father did to Ed and Al!

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

5) Ran Phan (Lan Phan?) is a total wild card right now. We have no idea how she could swing on this one - will she join Ling in his form as Greed? Against him? Will her reaction be deeply personal, or simply deeply patriotic? While textual evidence leans towards the idea that (L/R)an Phan has deep emotional ties to Ling that go beyond mere citizen's servitude, we have yet to see solid proof of such. Ultimately, her stance may play a critical role in how GreedLing plays out in the remainder of the tale.

Ranfan worries me. It's true that she could go either way and it's impossible to tell which way she will. T_T Poor Ranfan...

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

6) Compare Ling's Ouroboros mark to Lust's (see Chapt 2, Top of Page 37) and Gluttony's (ibid, mid pg 38). Note that Ling's serpent doesn't devour his own tail - it doesn't form a full circle - like that of Lust or Gluttony. Is that because he is a "hybrid" homonculis (one created from a human) like Wrath, or do you think it's simply a graphical error? [See Ch 54, pg 7 - not a great shot of Wrath's mark, but it looks like the Serpent isn't quite full-circle.]

Wow. I didn't even notice that. Maybe because those kind of homunculi age and since the ouroburus is a symbol for eternity, it could be a sign that they won't be able to live as long? I don't know about this one. I'm gonna have to do a little more investigating...

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

7) Sloth's digging: Think about it - how did all of those underground tunnels come to be? It makes sense that Father created a homonculis just to do all of the digging underneath Amestris so that he could travel underground. I think that's the best current explanation of what Sloth is doing.

Definately possible, but if that were the case, wouldn't they have finished it a long time ago?

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

8) Maria Ross - she's stated that she's willing to come out of "retirement" when she can to serve Mustang whenever she could be helpful - any idea of when you think she will re-enter the story? (Personally, she's my favorite character and she gets so little love...)

I completely forgot about that! Maybe she will come back. That would probably bring Fuu back into the picture too. I wonder how he'll react to Greed!Lin?
Nepharski
I think the X Hohenheim is going after...marks Sloth's current underground location.

Okay, so father is temporarily safe against alchemy, but that's it. If Gring does decide to go rouge again, he could potentially be a threat. Also, Scar's tatooed arm would be poweful (Unless it's power is nulled); still, even without his amazing arm, Scar's a pretty powerful fighter in his own right. Those two could easily hold their own. Not to diminish Ed (XD) or Al, but without alchemy...they're kind of useless, fighting wise.

Meanwhile, I want to know what's up with Wrath and Roy. Despite the obvious potential, killing Riza for Roy to do a transmutation would be futile. He's worked with Ed and Al, so he knows what might happen to him. He would then also know that what comes back...would not be Riza. No, they'll have to find some other way to open the gate.

Speaking of which.

They have Ed and Al, who have already seen the Truth, and Wrath mentioned Izumi to Father as another potential canidate. Kimblee is supposedly too timid, but they may need to force his hand. My guess is that they will be in a jam for Alchemist's to open the gate, so they'll decide to go ahead and use Kimblee, but he'll escape during the transportation.

Wonder how many alchemists they'll need.
Qeomash
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 21 2005, 06:31 PM) [snapback]332272[/snapback]
Meanwhile, I want to know what's up with Wrath and Roy. Despite the obvious potential, killing Riza for Roy to do a transmutation would be futile. He's worked with Ed and Al, so he knows what might happen to him. He would then also know that what comes back...would not be Riza. No, they'll have to find some other way to open the gate.


Yes, Roy knows that human transmutation is BAD...However, does Wrath know that he knows? I wouldn't be surprised if Wrath tries the stunt, but Roy is able to resist and ends up fighting him.

Edit: I was just thinking about it more. Perhaps Arakawa-sensei has set it up for Roy and Wrath to be opposites as far as their ideals go. The main one I can think of is that Bradly would leave a comrade behind in an instant, while Roy would never do that. Perhaps that will come into play...
njx
@Nepharsky: As for Roy/Riza vs. Wrath, I think there's more to it than that. Wrath himself is not the tightly packaged homunculis some may think - consider his reactions to Roy and his conversation with Pride. Wrath may be capable of switching sides, however improbable that may seem.

I, for one, don't buy the excuse that Wrath's "body couldn't catch up" when Ling escaped the warehouse before Gluttony was apprehended. The guy could physically walk up a telephone poll to nearly hack off Lan Phan's arm. Personally, I believe he hesitated; and he's been hesitant for a while, providing excuses to Father as to why all of Roy's pawns should live. Why hasn't he just killed off all of Mustang's subordinates? There's only practical use to keeping Mustang alive if all they want are human sacrifices. I think there are grounds for believing that there is still some humanity left in Bradley that does not reside in the others.

One possible line of reasoning is that if homunculi discriminate against humans based on species, there's nothing stopping those like Envy from believing they are superior to hybrid-homunks like Wrath & Ling. Perhaps Bradley's all-seeing eye realizes that as a possibility.

Another, separate thought: Unlike in the anime, there has not yet been an explanation/example as to the alchemical qualities of the Flamel, the mark Ed has on the back of his cape and on Al's shoulder; as well as Izumi's collarbone. Any speculation?
Nepharski
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Dec 21 2005, 03:23 AM) [snapback]332115[/snapback]

Whoa! You see all those red eyes in the dark, looking at you? It's the EdxWinry fans with intent to kill, for suggesting their beloved pairing could be incest...

Well, it's never stopped them before...

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 07:16 PM) [snapback]332298[/snapback]

@Nepharsky: As for Roy/Riza vs. Wrath, I think there's more to it than that. Wrath himself is not the tightly packaged homunculis some may think - consider his reactions to Roy and his conversation with Pride. Wrath may be capable of switching sides, however improbable that may seem.

I, for one, don't buy the excuse that Wrath's "body couldn't catch up" when Ling escaped the warehouse before Gluttony was apprehended. The guy could physically walk up a telephone poll to nearly hack off Lan Phan's arm. Personally, I believe he hesitated; and he's been hesitant for a while, providing excuses to Father as to why all of Roy's pawns should live. Why hasn't he just killed off all of Mustang's subordinates? There's only practical use to keeping Mustang alive if all they want are human sacrifices. I think there are grounds for believing that there is still some humanity left in Bradley that does not reside in the others.

One possible line of reasoning is that if homunculi discriminate against humans based on species, there's nothing stopping those like Envy from believing they are superior to hybrid-homunks like Wrath & Ling. Perhaps Bradley's all-seeing eye realizes that as a possibility.

Hey, if Bradley wants to switch sides, I gladly welcome him. I wouldn't be surprised if he did. Those hesitations...I think that's the real Bradley fighting against Wrath.

I'm a big Bradley fan, and I've been watching him all this time. He's certainly one of the deeper characters.
ElvishVamp
I have to agree. If any of the homunculi are going to switch sides, I think Wrath is most likely. There have just been so many instances where he hesitated or showed doubt. Then again, Arakawa-sensei isn't exactly known to do what we expect... happy.gif
Qeomash
I can't really see him coming fully to the Humans' side, but I can see him hesitating at a critical moment that allows the humans to win.

I don't think he wants the humans to win, but he's not 100% sure he wants Father to win, either...
Animeoldtimer
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 12:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

I decided to make a new thread, since the Chapter 54 thread is so huge it's unmanageable.

I have a couple of ideas that haven't really been fully explored/explained yet, and I thought it would be good to do a brain dump and see what people think about it all:



2) Hohenheim and Pinako: OK, this is a radical suggestion on my part, but imagine this: Hohenheim actually dated/married Pinako when she was young and gave birth to Winry's parents. Now, I think such an idea is RIDICULOUS but I thought I would throw it out - realize that we know VERY little about Pinako's relationship with him, and that Pinako herself seems to have quite a history, even though it's never really described. Whatever happened to Winry's grandfather? Both Winry and Ed have blond hair *and* bad tempers. They both have stubborn, obsessive personalities (Al over alchemy, Winry over automail). Again, I personally think I'm totally off on this one, but I thought I would throw it out there and see what people think.



This is weird. I actually thought of that as well! It wasn't a comforting thought since I am an Ed/Win fan. It got me thinking of the old song:
"I'm My Own Grandpa":
http://www.ziplo.com/grandpa.htm

--If you are interested in hearing it.
bemused_non-alchemist
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 01:18 PM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]
2) Hohenheim and Pinako: OK, this is a radical suggestion on my part, but imagine this: Hohenheim actually dated/married Pinako when she was young and gave birth to Winry's parents. Now, I think such an idea is RIDICULOUS but I thought I would throw it out - realize that we know VERY little about Pinako's relationship with him, and that Pinako herself seems to have quite a history, even though it's never really described. Whatever happened to Winry's grandfather? Both Winry and Ed have blond hair *and* bad tempers. They both have stubborn, obsessive personalities (Al over alchemy, Winry over automail). Again, I personally think I'm totally off on this one, but I thought I would throw it out there and see what people think.

Nooo. If this were true, Pinako, knowing full well how Ed and Winry are related, will never let them become so intimate. She's not blind to their relationship, I would think. And Ed would be Winry's half-uncle. o_o
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 01:18 PM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]
4) Speaking of, the conclusion of Ling's literature-oriented purpose in the story raises questions about Mei-Chan. Ling entered the picture as a replacement for Greed; what is Mei-Chan's ultimate purpose in the story? To become another homonculis? I doubt it, mainly because it would be poor storytelling to repeat the same dramatic event in another context. From what we know about Arakawa's full utilization of characters (no named character is ever completely irrelevant to the continuation of the plot), we should start theorizing how Mei-Chan fits into the puzzle. Personally, I have no idea; which is a great credit to Arakawa's storytelling skill.

Ling and Mei Chan both share the same goal, but probably for different reasons. Ling wants the secret of immortality to boost his chances of becoming emperor; we don't really know why Mei Chan wants it, but most likely it's to help consolidate her clan's power and raise its standing. My bet? That Mei Chan will be the one to remind Greed-Ling of his original priority that may have become obscured by the tantalising taste of power: his people.
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 01:18 PM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]
5) Ran Phan (Lan Phan?) is a total wild card right now. We have no idea how she could swing on this one - will she join Ling in his form as Greed? Against him? Will her reaction be deeply personal, or simply deeply patriotic? While textual evidence leans towards the idea that (L/R)an Phan has deep emotional ties to Ling that go beyond mere citizen's servitude, we have yet to see solid proof of such. Ultimately, her stance may play a critical role in how GreedLing plays out in the remainder of the tale.

Maybe Lan Fan's related to Mei Chan. >.> Whatever. She will, of course, be devastated; it may look like Ling, sound like Ling, maybe even taste like Ling, but whatever's talking sure ain't him. And maybe because of that, she'll regard him as dead and put aside her feelings and fight against the thing that had taken over his body. She's a tough girl.
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 01:18 PM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]
6) Compare Ling's Ouroboros mark to Lust's (see Chapt 2, Top of Page 37) and Gluttony's (ibid, mid pg 38). Note that Ling's serpent doesn't devour his own tail - it doesn't form a full circle - like that of Lust or Gluttony. Is that because he is a "hybrid" homonculis (one created from a human) like Wrath, or do you think it's simply a graphical error? [See Ch 54, pg 7 - not a great shot of Wrath's mark, but it looks like the Serpent isn't quite full-circle.]

I dunno, it's very hard to determine. I'd say it's mere coincidence.
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 01:18 PM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]
7) Sloth's digging: Think about it - how did all of those underground tunnels come to be? It makes sense that Father created a homonculis just to do all of the digging underneath Amestris so that he could travel underground. I think that's the best current explanation of what Sloth is doing.

QUOTE
Definately possible, but if that were the case, wouldn't they have finished it a long time ago?

Maybe they would, if the particular homonculus they used for this job weren't called Sloth.
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 01:18 PM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]
8) Maria Ross - she's stated that she's willing to come out of "retirement" when she can to serve Mustang whenever she could be helpful - any idea of when you think she will re-enter the story? (Personally, she's my favorite character and she gets so little love...)

Her return will probably a major plot point, otherwise what was the point of getting her messed up in all this and exiled to boot? I bet Arakawa's got it all planned out for her...
Sensenic
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 06:18 AM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]

6) Compare Ling's Ouroboros mark to Lust's (see Chapt 2, Top of Page 37) and Gluttony's (ibid, mid pg 38). Note that Ling's serpent doesn't devour his own tail - it doesn't form a full circle - like that of Lust or Gluttony. Is that because he is a "hybrid" homonculis (one created from a human) like Wrath, or do you think it's simply a graphical error? [See Ch 54, pg 7 - not a great shot of Wrath's mark, but it looks like the Serpent isn't quite full-circle.]

Found this (leeching):
IPB Image

As you can see, Greed's tattoo was the same... I'd say... not graphical error, per se, but keep in mind this is drawn, and thus the tattoo's form cannot be kept "exact" every time... sometimes it'll be thinner, sometimes it'll be in a slightly different position, sometimes it'll be more open... etc.

Of course I could be wrong, tho'. You never know.
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 22 2005, 02:31 AM) [snapback]332272[/snapback]

Okay, so father is temporarily safe against alchemy, but that's it. If Gring does decide to go rouge again, he could potentially be a threat. Also, Scar's tatooed arm would be poweful (Unless it's power is nulled); still, even without his amazing arm, Scar's a pretty powerful fighter in his own right. Those two could easily hold their own. Not to diminish Ed (XD) or Al, but without alchemy...they're kind of useless, fighting wise.

No way! They're supposed to be great fighters (remember Izumi's motto), only behind their sensei and a few others. Anyway, whatever happens I don't think the situation they're in now can be solved by physical fighting... I mean, remember Ed going to kick Father and slamming his foot against the newly formed wall (LOL at him in the next panel, BTW).
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 22 2005, 02:31 AM) [snapback]332272[/snapback]

They have Ed and Al, who have already seen the Truth, and Wrath mentioned Izumi to Father as another potential canidate. Kimblee is supposedly too timid, but they may need to force his hand. My guess is that they will be in a jam for Alchemist's to open the gate, so they'll decide to go ahead and use Kimblee, but he'll escape during the transportation.

Wonder how many alchemists they'll need.

Saa...

But remember Marcoh and Armstrong are also HS Candidates.
And Izumi is indeed a valid sacrifice, it's just that Bradley couldn't confirm it, as he didn't get to see her. So, to them, she's just a Candidate, for now.
*Whispers*And I believe Hohenheim is one too but don't tell anyone...
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 22 2005, 11:55 PM) [snapback]332554[/snapback]

QUOTE(Sensenic @ Dec 21 2005, 03:23 AM) [snapback]332115[/snapback]

Whoa! You see all those red eyes in the dark, looking at you? It's the EdxWinry fans with intent to kill, for suggesting their beloved pairing could be incest...

Well, it's never stopped them before...

True... ph34r.gif



laugh.gif
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 22 2005, 11:55 PM) [snapback]332554[/snapback]

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 07:16 PM) [snapback]332298[/snapback]

@Nepharsky: As for Roy/Riza vs. Wrath, I think there's more to it than that. Wrath himself is not the tightly packaged homunculis some may think - consider his reactions to Roy and his conversation with Pride. Wrath may be capable of switching sides, however improbable that may seem.

I, for one, don't buy the excuse that Wrath's "body couldn't catch up" when Ling escaped the warehouse before Gluttony was apprehended. The guy could physically walk up a telephone poll to nearly hack off Lan Phan's arm. Personally, I believe he hesitated; and he's been hesitant for a while, providing excuses to Father as to why all of Roy's pawns should live. Why hasn't he just killed off all of Mustang's subordinates? There's only practical use to keeping Mustang alive if all they want are human sacrifices. I think there are grounds for believing that there is still some humanity left in Bradley that does not reside in the others.

One possible line of reasoning is that if homunculi discriminate against humans based on species, there's nothing stopping those like Envy from believing they are superior to hybrid-homunks like Wrath & Ling. Perhaps Bradley's all-seeing eye realizes that as a possibility.

Hey, if Bradley wants to switch sides, I gladly welcome him. I wouldn't be surprised if he did. Those hesitations...I think that's the real Bradley fighting against Wrath.

I'm a big Bradley fan, and I've been watching him all this time. He's certainly one of the deeper characters.

@njx: I don't think his "Ultimate Eye" has anything to do with any possible change of mind... Rather, as Pride said, the fact that he's been living among humans, with at least 2 of them really caring for him (Selim and "Mrs. Bradley" tongue.gif) and his own curiosity to experience "difficulties" in his tasks.
QUOTE(bemused_non-alchemist @ Dec 23 2005, 09:18 AM) [snapback]332761[/snapback]

Ling and Mei Chan both share the same goal, but probably for different reasons. Ling wants the secret of immortality to boost his chances of becoming emperor; we don't really know why Mei Chan wants it, but most likely it's to help consolidate her clan's power and raise its standing. My bet? That Mei Chan will be the one to remind Greed-Ling of his original priority that may have become obscured by the tantalising taste of power: his people.

Good one! It is possible, certainly.

...

Even if it means admitting Ling has indeed fallen victim of his own ambition for now, that is. T_T
QUOTE(bemused_non-alchemist @ Dec 23 2005, 09:18 AM) [snapback]332761[/snapback]

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 01:18 PM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]
7) Sloth's digging: Think about it - how did all of those underground tunnels come to be? It makes sense that Father created a homonculis just to do all of the digging underneath Amestris so that he could travel underground. I think that's the best current explanation of what Sloth is doing.

QUOTE
Definately possible, but if that were the case, wouldn't they have finished it a long time ago?

Maybe they would, if the particular homonculus they used for this job weren't called Sloth.

laugh.gif
QUOTE(bemused_non-alchemist @ Dec 23 2005, 09:18 AM) [snapback]332761[/snapback]

QUOTE(njx @ Dec 21 2005, 01:18 PM) [snapback]332060[/snapback]
8) Maria Ross - she's stated that she's willing to come out of "retirement" when she can to serve Mustang whenever she could be helpful - any idea of when you think she will re-enter the story? (Personally, she's my favorite character and she gets so little love...)

Her return will probably a major plot point, otherwise what was the point of getting her messed up in all this and exiled to boot? I bet Arakawa's got it all planned out for her...

The truth is out there.

EDIT: Yay! Quoting is fun! Right armor-alchemist?
bemused_non-alchemist
You know, Greed once said that his greed knows no boundaries; power, riches, women, etc. etc. So now. 1. Ling = Greed for all practical purposes. 2. Lan Fan doesn't know that. And 3. Lan Fan's a woman.

...

I hope GreedLing doesn't try to take advantage of her or anything. O_o

EDIT: God, I hope Wrath doesn't try to take advantage of Riza. O_O
The Great Asparagus
Nah, it's still at 51 puny chapters. Though last time I checked, it was 40, so thanks for reminding me. =]
Winkle
I personally think that Wrath is using Riza as leverage (read: hostage) to keep Roy in line for the time being. Like they've said over and over again, Roy is considered a very important sacrifice so they can't have anything happening to him, OR have him do anything to himself to jeopardize that and it seems using Riza is the only way to control him.
njx
Something that's been brewing on my mind - both the Flamel and the Ouroboros prominently feature serpents, and both have wingtips. Does anyone think that they might be related? One is circular, swallowing its own tail; the other is curled around a cross - as if to say X and O, practically.

Am I the only one reading too much into this?
Qeomash
No, you're not the only one reading too much into everything. We all are. biggrin.gif

That is a very valid point. We still don't know why the Homunculs have the Oroborus, or why the Elrics & Izumi have the Flamel... There might be something related between the two, but who knows?
Chibi-Usa
Okay, I have a couple of questions:

1) If Greed now uses Ling's body as a host, does that mean that ALL the homunculi (I know that Wrath is) are simply "spirits"(when I say spirits I just mean something without a physical form) that are using another human's body?

Which leads me to:
2) If that's the case, can't Edward and Alphonse save Ling by extracting Greed's "spirit" from his body and destroy the other Homunculi by extracting thiers?
Nepharski
QUOTE(Chibi-Usa @ Dec 29 2005, 10:25 AM) [snapback]334766[/snapback]

Okay, I have a couple of questions:

1) If Greed now uses Ling's body as a host, does that mean that ALL the homunculi (I know that Wrath is) are simply "spirits"(when I say spirits I just mean something without a physical form) that are using another human's body?

Which leads me to:
2) If that's the case, can't Edward and Alphonse save Ling by extracting Greed's "spirit" from his body and destroy the other Homunculi by extracting thiers?

No. Only Wrath, and now Greed, use once human hosts for their benefit. The others bodies are their own.
njx
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 29 2005, 04:52 PM) [snapback]334824[/snapback]

No. Only Wrath, and now Greed, use once human hosts for their benefit. The others bodies are their own.


We don't know that for a fact. There is no true indication that Lust or Alpha Greed were never human. (Although there is an implication that they were not.)
Qeomash
Yes--we have absolutly no idea how Alpha Greed (lol, nice name...), Lust, Glutton, Slot, Envy were made...Or what (if anything) they once were.
Nepharski
I thought it was fairly obvious. I mean, the reason Bradley ages is because he was once human, and he's the only Homunculi who can go undetected as he seems to have one soul.
Sensenic
QUOTE(njx @ Dec 30 2005, 05:26 AM) [snapback]334997[/snapback]

QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 29 2005, 04:52 PM) [snapback]334824[/snapback]

No. Only Wrath, and now Greed, use once human hosts for their benefit. The others bodies are their own.


We don't know that for a fact. There is no true indication that Lust or Alpha Greed were never human. (Although there is an implication that they were not.)

QUOTE(Qeomash @ Dec 30 2005, 08:16 AM) [snapback]335065[/snapback]

Yes--we have absolutly no idea how Alpha Greed (lol, nice name...), Lust, Glutton, Slot, Envy were made...Or what (if anything) they once were.

QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 30 2005, 08:03 PM) [snapback]335164[/snapback]

I thought it was fairly obvious. I mean, the reason Bradley ages is because he was once human, and he's the only Homunculi who can go undetected as he seems to have one soul.

Uh-huh... Well, I believe all the hommunculi have one soul (whereas the rest are just mere energy sources stored in the stone), it's just that Wrath's stone is more diluded or whatever. But that's a theory so... sorry.
Whatever, there's the proof of Lust's comment to Mustang: "Build (make, form... original: "tsukuru") a human body with a PS as its core and you get us." And it is unlikely that she was lying cuz it was one of those "I'll reveal you all my evil scheme because I'm gonna kill you afterwards anyway" scene wink.gif.
Therefore, Pride (assuming here. Guess Greed knew Pride too. And he's the oldest one.), Lust, Greed0, Gluttony, Envy and Sloth's bodies were all made/built/created by Father (most probably, at least).
Michiyo-
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