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The Great Asparagus
wow this topic is making me really sad (i'm listening returnable memories at the same time too) it would be sooooo sad if ling won't be the same old awesomeyful guy anymore, but an awesomeyful-in-an-evil-way but sorta... possessed? ;_; poor ling. why did he do that to himself!! T_T

at least ed's arm is better. it pains my heart to think of all the pain he had to endure cuz of his broken arm.
Death 316
What??? Greed has been reborn in Ling's body? Where did you read this chapter, because it isn't on groups MSN? Why Ling, why?



AA battery
QUOTE(Meo @ Dec 11 2005, 05:15 PM) [snapback]328243[/snapback]


I want to see the Truth again. D: He's interesting too. And his role is a lot bigger than how much screen time he gets. x3 I guess Father would be the closest to Truth, aside from Hoho but we know nothing of him yet. Sage of the weeest! O:

Wow.. o.o Scar and Meichan are risking a lot for an undergrown panda. x3


LOL XD

I wanna see Truth again too but that's only because I am a little perverted.


QUOTE(Neo2x @ Dec 11 2005, 05:56 PM) [snapback]328272[/snapback]

Didn't anyone else notice that maybe Father is doing alchemy with his feet? That would be really funny tongue.gif and explain why he wasn't moving to do so.


XD

QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Dec 11 2005, 06:48 PM) [snapback]328301[/snapback]

Wow... what a crazy chapter... her are my thoughts:

Father said that he had a spot left for Greed.... makes you wonder if Lust is comeing back or maybe if she already came back **grins from the fact that he mention Ed and Al's "mother" transmutation earlier** it also means that maybe..... Pride = Hohenheim since it was hinted at by father that he is a Homunculi... and it looks like Ling got what he came to Ameteris for =D anyways... maybe father is transmuting with his feet... but how did he stop ed and al from doing so... anyways... *misses the old kewl greed*


bemused_non-alchemist already had the perfect answer for that *points down*

QUOTE(bemused_non-alchemist @ Dec 11 2005, 07:17 PM) [snapback]328310[/snapback]

So... does Hoho = Pride still stand?

1. From the sounds of it, Father hasnt been in touch with Hoho for a long time. This has been brought up some time ago, I think.
2. The other homonculi seems to treat Pride like their leader, who reports back to Father. If so, then Father must know Pride, and quite intimately too.

So Hoho does not = Pride. Yay. Then who is he? He may be the result of an experiment that Father had conducted ages ago. We still don't know if Father is only limited to the 7 Sins, so we shouldn't assume that. Perhaps he was trying to create a homonculus with a mixture of sins (like normal people), and ended up with something looking like him which also possesses the ability to.. procreate. But this thing, Hohenheim, decided that he didn't like whatever Father was doing, and left him. Father may find that Hoho is useless to him, so he lets him go and forgot about him.

... possible?

And sorry to say, but I don't think Lust is ever coming back. Greed was liquified and distilled (ergh.) into "essence", which was returned to Father. That's why he can be recreated; because Father still has his essence. But Lust was vaporized and her stone disintigrated, which dashes any hopes of her reincarnation. (But imagine if Mei Chan were to receive the PS and becomes Lust. blink.gif Run Ed!!)


Lust won't come back, but I think it's possible for a new Lust to be created... (and lol, I had the same thought about May Cheng getting it... xD) But I want to see Riza getting the stone more (even tho Father would probably consider her useless... except for her high aimming and sensitivity maybe?? but... not likely.)

Really, I want to know how Hoho-papa and Father are related... next chappie, next chappie... (and will Ed ever get to tell Al what he saw in the gate anytime soon? Seeing how they already got dragged off that topic already)
Reika
after reading this chappy I bet Arakawa is a great Chess player. She just knows how to use her pieces to move the story the way she wants.
AA battery
QUOTE(Reika @ Dec 11 2005, 11:49 PM) [snapback]328441[/snapback]

after reading this chappy I bet Arakawa is a great Chess player. She just knows how to use her pieces to move the story the way she wants.


agreed... interesting how Greed's death was all planned along and the Xing people showed up and Lin was used that way... no wonder Wrath mentioned how he was created! it was FORESHADOWING!!!!!!! *very amazed*

I wonder if Lust's death foreshadow anything, too.

... guessing fma plot gives me headache. XD
kaizenyorii
o well..... us making up lots of wild theories and then being given something so much more shocking and deviously clever than anything we could come up with is waht makes the manga such a wonderful read
Aoko-chan
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Dec 12 2005, 04:40 PM) [snapback]328463[/snapback]

QUOTE(Reika @ Dec 11 2005, 11:49 PM) [snapback]328441[/snapback]

after reading this chappy I bet Arakawa is a great Chess player. She just knows how to use her pieces to move the story the way she wants.


agreed... interesting how Greed's death was all planned along and the Xing people showed up and Lin was used that way... no wonder Wrath mentioned how he was created! it was FORESHADOWING!!!!!!! *very amazed*

I wonder if Lust's death foreshadow anything, too.

... guessing fma plot gives me headache. XD


gives me a headache too XD

Maybe ... Lust's death DOES forshadow something, and the location will probably come up again??
and Mei's ability with Rentanjutsu could come into play too (and that panda getting lost) and many many other things.. so much XD

Armstrong's sister who is a general up north? and Hohenheim is going to the mountians...maybe THAT too biggrin.gif

--

One thing, I dont think that Wrath's stone is from another homunculus (meaning King Bradley is the first Wrath). Since he was "created to serve the last purpose" why not keep the original one and just make a new homunculus (which means 8 homunculi). Also, with Lin's case, it was Greed speaking..not Lin himself. With Wrath, I think its an "original"
Ladymercury
I have a feeling Riza is going to be used for something since she's being kept close to the humonculi while the others are being dispersed amongst Amestris to be forgotten.

Either she's going to be a pawn for Roy to do something (like a sacrifice to have Roy open the gate or something) or turned into something (like a humonculi? sloth?). Its one of the two.

When I read the translation, I got a different perspective from the inital raw reading. It seems that Ling had a choice of life and death... and seeing as if he was going to die either way if he didn't accept the stone, he took his chances and accepted becoming Greed. So in part he got what he wished for: Eternal Life.

It sucks but hopefully chapter 55 will shed some liiiggghhhtt <3

Queen of the dammed
*De-lurks for a moment* Hmm... after reading this chapter:
[spoiler] Well, to be honest, I think Ling turning into Greed may not be a bad thing for the Elrics. Afterall, has Greed EVER listened to father? No, not in the last few hundred years. So this probably means he's not going to start now, is he? I mean the most likely thing that's going to happen is that he' going to go "Thanks for the body old man!!! BYE BYE!!!" and hop off to form a new Devil's nest or something, which means that now father has just recreated a problem instead of eliminating one. Which is sort of a good thing for Ed and Al.

But... LING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TT.TT I LOVED YOU!!!!!! *Cries for the next month*[/spoiler]
Aoko-chan
QUOTE(Ladymercury @ Dec 12 2005, 07:46 PM) [snapback]328474[/snapback]

I have a feeling Riza is going to be used for something since she's being kept close to the humonculi while the others are being dispersed amongst Amestris to be forgotten.

Either she's going to be a pawn for Roy to do something (like a sacrifice to have Roy open the gate or something) or turned into something (like a humonculi? sloth?). Its one of the two.


No, Sloth is already a homunculus.. but only appeared in one or two panels. He's the big guy digging stuff (mentioned in the chapter of Greed's death, so Riza can't be turned into a homunculus)

Her being a pawn is more likely though.

Kirara
QUOTE
Father said that he had a spot left for Greed.... makes you wonder if Lust is comeing back or maybe if she already came back **grins from the fact that he mention Ed and Al's "mother" transmutation earlier** it also means that maybe..... Pride = Hohenheim since it was hinted at by father that he is a Homunculi... and it looks like Ling got what he came to Ameteris for =D anyways... maybe father is transmuting with his feet... but how did he stop ed and al from doing so... anyways... *misses the old kewl greed*


Go back and read my earlier post. Pride cannot be Hohenheim because Father did not know what Hohenheim was doing at least since he had Ed and Al (for all we know even longer) but Father DOES know what is going on with Pride. Remember in chapter 49 Wrath is talking to Pride about Father.

Also I think this chapter proves once again that Arakawa is totally unpredictable. It seems she was planning Ling to be Greed from the beginning. Ling was introduced in the chapter directly after Greed ďperishedĒ and from the beginning Ling was asking about immortality like Greed. I wonder how Meiís search for immortality will play into this.

I am also not entirely convinced that Ling is completely gone. Now I know it looks bleak with the way Greedling responded to Ed and Father at the end of the chapter. Itís true Ling wanted immortality and to become the emperor of Xing but he also once said to Wrath that without the ďpeopleĒ a king is not a king and he told Wrath that he is no King. I canít believe Ling would sell his soul to those he completely disagrees with. Also in this chapter Ling had told Ed you need to know your enemies first before you can defeat them, well what better way to defeat your enemies than to become one with them. So I am not convinced that we lost are Xingese Prince completely. It might seem like that for awhile but I think Arakawa has a few tricks up her sleeve.

Also Greed might prove to be an unlikely ally to the Elric Brothers. Can you really imagine Greed working for Father? For some reason I can see Greed doing the exact opposite to what Father wants just to piss him off. wink.gif
Reika
Riza can be transformed into a homunculus, remember Lust's place is free, and that SCARES ME A LOT!! >.<! Now I understand why the other chappy came out not as worked out as the other, because this one was really really amazing, I bet she wanted to draw with all her might this one, and it's really important, many things have been revealed. Also... they say "human based homunculus" SO, that means there are other ways. Geez, I love how it looks that the manga will last long XD and every chapter I read the more amazed I am, will I have a heart attack at the end of the manga? XD

Also... WHAT THE HELL IS HOHO NOW!!!?? He's not a homunculus, he's not father, he is "it", and he "can't die", and he is the same as Father.

I'm so amazed, not only Ling's role was planned from the beginning, I just read vol 12 were he got scared on the same place the philosopher's stone is introduced. Lust's death was planned since the beginning too, and who knows what more, Roy still must have a bigger roleplay as well as Marcoh, Scar, the chinese girl, kimbly, Armstrong big sister, etc! And there's nothing out of place, as I said, all the pieces are on the correct place and doing the right move. No wonder why there are so many characters on the story that love playing chess, I bet she loves that too. Arakawa... I admire you!!! T^T

It's just as if the real story, the real plot is starting from now on, and up untill now there's been just the introduction to the world, the characters and the situation. As I said, I can't be more amazed (untill next chappy xD).
Kirara
Donít worry so much about Riza (well donít worry about her becoming the new Lust at least). Lustís spot is not open. Remember when Greed was destroyed his philosopher stone was extracted out of his body and put back into Father thus Greed still existed in Father. Not so with Lust her philosopher stone was destroyed completely by Mustang. Unless things arenít as they seem, Lust cannot come back.

QUOTE
Also... WHAT THE HELL IS HOHO NOW!!!?? He's not a homunculus, he's not father, he is "it", and he "can't die", and he is the same as Father.


I think this is what we all want to know. Though I donít think Hohenheim is exactly the same as father. I still think Hohenheim might be a clone of Father, but I guess we will see. The more important question is if Hohenheim isnít human what does that make Ed and Al.
Ladymercury
QUOTE(Aoko-chan @ Dec 12 2005, 10:47 AM) [snapback]328489[/snapback]

QUOTE(Ladymercury @ Dec 12 2005, 07:46 PM) [snapback]328474[/snapback]

I have a feeling Riza is going to be used for something since she's being kept close to the humonculi while the others are being dispersed amongst Amestris to be forgotten.

Either she's going to be a pawn for Roy to do something (like a sacrifice to have Roy open the gate or something) or turned into something (like a humonculi? sloth?). Its one of the two.


No, Sloth is already a homunculus.. but only appeared in one or two panels. He's the big guy digging stuff (mentioned in the chapter of Greed's death, so Riza can't be turned into a homunculus)

Her being a pawn is more likely though.


Hmm, must have forgot. Gawd, too many hidden thingies ;_;

Ed and Al are aliens. Yep, that's it. Aliens from another dimensssiiioooonnnn....!
Reika
@kirara:

Still, if Father creates another PS he can create Lust again.

In the translation he didn't say it like this, but in japanese he says "so he "created" some children!" "Tsukutta"
Kirara
QUOTE
Still, if Father creates another PS he can create Lust again.


Thatís true, except we still donít know ďexactlyĒ what the philosopher stone is. We know it is made up of human souls (the souls of Xerxes) but what is Father that he contains the Philosopher Stone. Also it seems Father extracts his sins to make the homunculus. Pride, Wrath, Gluttony, Envy, Sloth, Lust and Greed are all part of Father. So I do think it is significant that Lustís philosopher Stone was completely destroyed. I think it shows that Lust no longer exists. Also if the Philosopher Stone was made with the souls of Xerxes it is probably not something easy to make again.
Reika
yeah, but Lust also said "I can't wait to see the day you etc." XDD can't remember it exactly
Nepharski
What is taking those people so long to update the MSN!?!?!?

People, Lust is dead. Her PS shattered. Greed could be resurrected because his PS was preserved.

Lust is gone. Period. Pay attention people.
Reika
I still think Lust can come back, Arakawa can do it if she wants.
Animeoldtimer
Thought 1: Wow! Intriguing chapter! It will be interesting to see what Ling does.

Thought 2: I beginning to think that it's possible Hohonheim is trying to find a way to defeat Father. I don't believe he is Pride because Father was not up to date on his wearabouts. I'm glad he is not father. It's still a mystery as to what he is. rolleyes.gif

BTW, Nepharski, I'm begininng to think there is something wrong with the MSN site. I tried replying to a message on the board there and it wouldn't let me reply. I didn't even get a message of why.
Jellybean
Lust!Riza would be my new favorite character. biggrin.gif But somehow, I can't see that happening.

Wrath's creation from the previous chapter makes a little more sense now. I couldn't figure out what that blob they scooped off the floor was supposed to be. I guess that was Wrath itself (himself?). But Bradley retained memories of his human life and wasn't sure whether he was actually a different person or not, so maybe Ling is still in there in some form. I can't wait to find out.

Also, that big anti-alchemy shebang that Father did seemed to encompass a large area. I wonder if it affected Scar and Mei Ling as well. And if so, what are they gonna do about this situation when they come across it?
Kirara
QUOTE
I still think Lust can come back, Arakawa can do it if she wants.


Arakawa can do whatever she wants, except to this point everything Arakawa has written has made sense with the context of the story and had a purpose. You can bet there is a reason why Lustsís stone was completely destroyed and Greedís was not. Also I canít see Arakawa playing the same trick. The reason why Greed coming back was so fascinating is none of us expected it (and if someone out there did expect this development, kudos to them). If Lust is brought back somehow it wouldnít be as exciting because it already happened with Greed. Still I donít think it is physically possible to bring back Lust without creating a new philosopher stone, and I am pretty sure the resources of Xerxes were already used up with the last stone.

Perhaps Father does want to make another stone, but for some reason I think his plans are more sinister than creating new homunculus.
kaizenyorii
Technically, yes, the Lust we all knew and loved cant be brought back. But Riza being used to create a brand new one who happens to also be called Lust is quite possible. Remember, it seems the new breed of homonculus are made with emotions (Bradley = wrath, Ling = greed). and we have no idea if the PS that father secreted from his forehead is the only ones he has stored up there. I mean, he can transmute without moving, so theres much about him that we dunno. "Lust" is a feeling that father (or any human for that matter) could easily replicate again and again, its not like something that can only happen once and then thats it........but id rather just wait and read the manga than make up crackhead theories!
Sensenic
Some replies:
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 11 2005, 10:05 PM) [snapback]328124[/snapback]

Your previous Read or Die avatar no doubt cause the confusion. Your screen name also sounds somewhat female.

O Rly? "Sensenic" sounds female?

And, yeah, I also thought, f. ex. that armor-alchemist was a guy... happy.gif Damn avatars, that lead to confusion... Now I think you're a bouncing red blob-like thing... (tongue.gif Just kiddin')

But, hey!, Yomiko is Yomiko! I had to! sleep.gifU
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Dec 12 2005, 06:36 AM) [snapback]328397[/snapback]

QUOTE(Meo @ Dec 11 2005, 05:15 PM) [snapback]328243[/snapback]

Wow.. o.o Scar and Meichan are risking a lot for an undergrown panda. x3

LOL XD

LOL too.

An underground undergrown panda, might I add.
QUOTE(Queen of the dammed @ Dec 12 2005, 03:00 PM) [snapback]328485[/snapback]

*De-lurks for a moment* Hmm... after reading this chapter:
[spoiler] Well, to be honest, I think Ling turning into Greed may not be a bad thing for the Elrics. Afterall, has Greed EVER listened to father? No, not in the last few hundred years. So this probably means he's not going to start now, is he? I mean the most likely thing that's going to happen is that he' going to go "Thanks for the body old man!!! BYE BYE!!!" and hop off to form a new Devil's nest or something, which means that now father has just recreated a problem instead of eliminating one. Which is sort of a good thing for Ed and Al.

But... LING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TT.TT I LOVED YOU!!!!!! *Cries for the next month*[/spoiler]

QUOTE(Kirara @ Dec 12 2005, 05:05 PM) [snapback]328491[/snapback]
Also Greed might prove to be an unlikely ally to the Elric Brothers. Can you really imagine Greed working for Father? For some reason I can see Greed doing the exact opposite to what Father wants just to piss him off. wink.gif

What I said. This'll eventually lead to a homunculus on the "good boys"' side.

Or so I so much hope! Ling, come back!!
QUOTE(Kirara @ Dec 12 2005, 05:05 PM) [snapback]328491[/snapback]
I am also not entirely convinced that Ling is completely gone. Now I know it looks bleak with the way Greedling responded to Ed and Father at the end of the chapter. It’s true Ling wanted immortality and to become the emperor of Xing but he also once said to Wrath that without the “people” a king is not a king and he told Wrath that he is no King. I can’t believe Ling would sell his soul to those he completely disagrees with. Also in this chapter Ling had told Ed you need to know your enemies first before you can defeat them, well what better way to defeat your enemies than to become one with them. So I am not convinced that we lost are Xingese Prince completely. It might seem like that for awhile but I think Arakawa has a few tricks up her sleeve.

Oh Lord, what is this Lack of Faith in Him?!! XO
The phrase should've been "I am almost sure that Ling is NOT completely gone"
He's had a plan ever since that panel in which his eyes are shadowed, right before he starts "don't butt in!"!!

OK, I'll try to control my fanboyism from now on... Understand this chapter has been very traumatic for me.... After taking away Ranfan (for a long while, that is), now Ling... no.... T_T *goes cry in a corner. Alone.*
QUOTE(Reika @ Dec 12 2005, 05:32 PM) [snapback]328492[/snapback]

I'm so amazed, not only Ling's role was planned from the beginning, I just read vol 12 were he got scared on the same place the philosopher's stone is introduced. Lust's death was planned since the beginning too, and who knows what more, Roy still must have a bigger roleplay as well as Marcoh, Scar, the chinese girl, kimbly, Armstrong big sister, etc! And there's nothing out of place, as I said, all the pieces are on the correct place and doing the right move. No wonder why there are so many characters on the story that love playing chess, I bet she loves that too. Arakawa... I admire you!!! T^T

Whoa, whoa, hold yer horses. Now, what's with all these conspiracy theories appearing everywhere? That sth is well (magnifically?) thought, planned and worked doesn't necessarily mean "OMFG!! She had it all planned from the beginning!!". It may have been, it may have been not. The Lust thing, we know from the interview, but this doesn't mean that necessarily every surprise that may pop out was thought right from the start.
Remember that Arakawa sensei said she was doing FMA with an idea for the beginning, an idea for the end, and then she'd make it up on the way.
I (most certainly) agree that she's a wonderful, careful, coherent, detailist author, and heck of course I admire her too, but maybe that's taking it a little too far...

And, BTW, on the chess topic, Guest here disagrees with you (from the manga analysis thread):
QUOTE(Guest @ Jun 1 2005, 02:36 AM) [snapback]183222[/snapback]
Now for a real mistake, check out the chess game played between Roy and the Brigadier General of East City [Sensenic's note](Riza's grandpa)[/Sensenic's note]. Check out the final position of the chess pieces. There's no way that was a checkmate laugh.gif Arakawa probably never played chess. tongue.gif

Contradiction? LOL
I won't take part in this matter (I don't know and don't care whether Arakawa sensei likes/plays chess or not), but gotta confirm that position was certainly only Check, not Check Mate IIRC.
Kirara
QUOTE
Technically, yes, the Lust we all knew and loved cant be brought back. But Riza being used to create a brand new one who happens to also be called Lust is quite possible. Remember, it seems the new breed of homonculus are made with emotions (Bradley = wrath, Ling = greed). and we have no idea if the PS that father secreted from his forehead is the only ones he has stored up there. I mean, he can transmute without moving, so theres much about him that we dunno. "Lust" is a feeling that father (or any human for that matter) could easily replicate again and again, its not like something that can only happen once and then thats it........but id rather just wait and read the manga than make up crackhead theories!


Reread the chapters, we saw father store Greed back into his body this is why Greed was able to be reborn. Father did not do the same with Lust. Lust's stone was destroyed by Mustang, so Lust no longer exists. The events of the story are significant.

Also true Lust is something that normal humans cannot get rid of but I think chapter made it pretty clear that Father is not a normal human. After all most humans cannot extract their sins and make beings out of them.

Also I understand Father is extremely powerful but I don't think he is "all powerful". If Father was all powerful than he probably wouldn't need the philosopher stone to begin with. How the hell the stone is in his body I have no idea.


And sorry Sensenic, What I should have said is Ling is not gone for good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sensenic
Some replies. Round 2 (To avoid quoting problem... sleep.gif):
QUOTE(Kirara @ Dec 12 2005, 06:41 PM) [snapback]328503[/snapback]

QUOTE
Still, if Father creates another PS he can create Lust again.


That’s true, except we still don’t know “exactly” what the philosopher stone is. We know it is made up of human souls (the souls of Xerxes) but what is Father that he contains the Philosopher Stone. Also it seems Father extracts his sins to make the homunculus. Pride, Wrath, Gluttony, Envy, Sloth, Lust and Greed are all part of Father. So I do think it is significant that Lust’s philosopher Stone was completely destroyed. I think it shows that Lust no longer exists. Also if the Philosopher Stone was made with the souls of Xerxes it is probably not something easy to make again.

My thoughts exactly. Making another PS doesn't seem quite a walk in the park precisely. Even for Father.
QUOTE(Kirara @ Dec 12 2005, 10:24 PM) [snapback]328555[/snapback]

QUOTE
I still think Lust can come back, Arakawa can do it if she wants.


Arakawa can do whatever she wants, except to this point everything Arakawa has written has made sense with the context of the story and had a purpose. You can bet there is a reason why Lusts’s stone was completely destroyed and Greed’s was not. Also I can’t see Arakawa playing the same trick. The reason why Greed coming back was so fascinating is none of us expected it (and if someone out there did expect this development, kudos to them). If Lust is brought back somehow it wouldn’t be as exciting because it already happened with Greed. Still I don’t think it is physically possible to bring back Lust without creating a new philosopher stone, and I am pretty sure the resources of Xerxes were already used up with the last stone.

Perhaps Father does want to make another stone, but for some reason I think his plans are more sinister than creating new homunculus.

Yeah, yeah! God I love it when someone explains what I think better than I'd ever do. Thx Kirara! tongue.gif
QUOTE(Jellybean @ Dec 12 2005, 09:44 PM) [snapback]328545[/snapback]

Wrath's creation from the previous chapter makes a little more sense now. I couldn't figure out what that blob they scooped off the floor was supposed to be. I guess that was Wrath itself (himself?). But Bradley retained memories of his human life and wasn't sure whether he was actually a different person or not, so maybe Ling is still in there in some form. I can't wait to find out.

The red blob was the Philosopher's Stone, and the creepy alchemists said it clearly (the golden tooth guy, specifically), as well as Wrath himself.
That PS contained Father's feeling of Wrath.

As for Ling, he's in the Stone (I believe). His soul, I mean.
QUOTE(Jellybean @ Dec 12 2005, 09:44 PM) [snapback]328545[/snapback]

Also, that big anti-alchemy shebang that Father did seemed to encompass a large area. I wonder if it affected Scar and Mei Ling as well. And if so, what are they gonna do about this situation when they come across it?

Certainly. If they can't do alchemy they're screwed, if the chimeras are still around, that is.

BTW, loved the word 'shebang' smile.gif
QUOTE(kaizenyorii @ Dec 12 2005, 10:47 PM) [snapback]328564[/snapback]
but id rather just wait and read the manga than make up crackhead theories!

That, indeed, is THE answer. The problem is, we're all too eager to wait another whole month... >_< -sigh-
Reika
@sensenic:
She said she already planned the end, the lust and roy fight among other things, the fact that wrath in vol 12 made Ling that scar on the cheek where the PS enters to 8 chaps ago (that means 8 months ago) means that she knows where does she exactly want to go with the story and the characters, as well as the fact that characters such as xiao mei, etc appear from behind before they appear on the story etc etc. The only one comment I recall from her about doing things "spontaneously" was letting Barry the Chopper live longer than her first thoughts, where she admited he was going to die at the 5th laboratory but suddenly decided to see what happened and let him live a little bit longer.

Just by reading all the chapters I reached the conclusion that she has almost everything already planned. There are a LOT of details perfectly matched at the right time and as if it didn't matter when you read it but it's vital for next chapters, that's why I said "she has all the pieces where she wants them and doing what she wants and needs them to do". That, and the fact that if she needs to kill some character for the story to go on, she kills him (hughes, nina, Ling being a homunculus now (now, when did Greed "die"? and was drunk by Father? <--that's something planned too, that's how I see it...), just like when you sacrifice a pawn in order to do a bigger move (that can be to show us some vital information or whatever)

also, I don't think this is a story you can go and plan as you do it, it's too complicated and there are too much details that have something to do with chapters that will come along that make me think she knows the story how's going to be developed. Besides, you can easily notice when some script is written as it's being done or previously studied and developed.

Sorry, I didn't catch what you said about the chess thing ^^U
Nepharski
QUOTE(Animeoldtimer @ Dec 12 2005, 12:42 PM) [snapback]328544[/snapback]
BTW, Nepharski, I'm begininng to think there is something wrong with the MSN site. I tried replying to a message on the board there and it wouldn't let me reply. I didn't even get a message of why.

Oh, alright then.

I'ts so hard to be patient when you know all sorts of awesome things are occuring behind closed doors.

@Sensenic: No! My cover's been blown!

*Teleports.*
kokoro_shadow_angel
wow...i'm kinda late, but i here's my thoughts on this chappie...

LING, WHY!??!?! DEAR TRUTH, WHY?!?! what's going to happen to ran fan now? WHY?!?!?!

and as for the whole thing about hohenheim...say what you want to say, but i still think he's pride. not only did father hint it, but in on page of the manga (i forget which chapter)

Woman: What are you?!
Hoho: A monster (and as for the background, we panels of him and the other homunculi)

now i ask you...why would arakawa draw something like that?
Nepharski
QUOTE(kokoro_shadow_angel @ Dec 12 2005, 08:01 PM) [snapback]328769[/snapback]

wow...i'm kinda late, but i here's my thoughts on this chappie...

LING, WHY!??!?! DEAR TRUTH, WHY?!?! what's going to happen to ran fan now? WHY?!?!?!

and as for the whole thing about hohenheim...say what you want to say, but i still think he's pride. not only did father hint it, but in on page of the manga (i forget which chapter)

Woman: What are you?!
Hoho: A monster (and as for the background, we panels of him and the other homunculi)

now i ask you...why would arakawa draw something like that?

Why would a prideful Homunculi demote himself to a "monster"? Why doens't Hohenheim match Pride's out line? Pride is so important to Father's mission, how come he hadn't heard from Hohenheim in a long time?
kokoro_shadow_angel
@ Nepharski: darn...you got me there...

ed's matured so much...i miss the younger ed
Nepharski
QUOTE(kokoro_shadow_angel @ Dec 12 2005, 08:12 PM) [snapback]328782[/snapback]

@ Nepharski: darn...you got me there...

ed's matured so much...i miss the younger ed

The red blobber-thingy strikes again.

...

I feel so totally out of the loop. I hope whatever is wrong with the MSN group is corrected soon. sad.gif
Otoki Tomoe
Ok, I'm trying very VERY hard to dodge spoilers (geez, guys!)...

Is the scanlation out yet by any chance? If so, could someone please PM me so I don't have to sift through all the spoilers. I already caught one that I didn't want to know. sad.gif
Ladymercury
Yes, it was mentioned about two pages ago.

also, this is a thread soley about 54 so you should have figured 'hmmm 16 pages? there must be spoilers!
Sensenic
QUOTE(Reika @ Dec 12 2005, 11:24 PM) [snapback]328574[/snapback]

@sensenic:
She said she already planned the end, the lust and roy fight among other things, the fact that wrath in vol 12 made Ling that scar on the cheek where the PS enters to 8 chaps ago (that means 8 months ago) means that she knows where does she exactly want to go with the story and the characters, as well as the fact that characters such as xiao mei, etc appear from behind before they appear on the story etc etc. The only one comment I recall from her about doing things "spontaneously" was letting Barry the Chopper live longer than her first thoughts, where she admited he was going to die at the 5th laboratory but suddenly decided to see what happened and let him live a little bit longer.

Just by reading all the chapters I reached the conclusion that she has almost everything already planned. There are a LOT of details perfectly matched at the right time and as if it didn't matter when you read it but it's vital for next chapters, that's why I said "she has all the pieces where she wants them and doing what she wants and needs them to do". That, and the fact that if she needs to kill some character for the story to go on, she kills him (hughes, nina, Ling being a homunculus now (now, when did Greed "die"? and was drunk by Father? <--that's something planned too, that's how I see it...), just like when you sacrifice a pawn in order to do a bigger move (that can be to show us some vital information or whatever)

also, I don't think this is a story you can go and plan as you do it, it's too complicated and there are too much details that have something to do with chapters that will come along that make me think she knows the story how's going to be developed. Besides, you can easily notice when some script is written as it's being done or previously studied and developed.

Well, don't take my comments black or white (altho' I admit I took yours sleep.gifU). But of course I never meant she goes making up the story as it goes. With all this coherence, foreshadowings et al, if she doesn't plan she's just a friggin' genius (even more, I mean happy.gif).

But, the fact that she had the Lust fight thought from the beginning doesn't necessarily mean that she had it ALL (or almost all) planned right from scratch, specially given her own comment.

There be mid terms... You say that she had all this planned when she gave Ling the cheek cut? Completely agreed. You say she had this more or less planned when Greed died and Ling first appeared? Most probably. But right from scratch? I can't tell, and I believe you can't either (correct me if I'm wrong tho').

Anyway we all agree that she's a friggin' storytelling genius and we all admire her for it, so... let's just avoid the discussion (sorry for bringing it up first, then happy.gif).
QUOTE(Reika @ Dec 12 2005, 11:24 PM) [snapback]328574[/snapback]

Sorry, I didn't catch what you said about the chess thing ^^U

Oh nothing, just a funny coincidence I wanted to point out tongue.gif:
You just said that Arakawa sensei had to be an excellent chess player, whereas that guest said she probably hasn't played chess in her life.

And Guest said so because in the scene where Roy is playing Chess against that East general, Riza's grandpa, whose name I don't remember, Roy does Check Mate. But if you look at the board, IIRC, the position, which is clearly shown, is not Check Mate, but Check only.

That's all folks.
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 13 2005, 05:04 AM) [snapback]328772[/snapback]

QUOTE(kokoro_shadow_angel @ Dec 12 2005, 08:01 PM) [snapback]328769[/snapback]

wow...i'm kinda late, but i here's my thoughts on this chappie...

LING, WHY!??!?! DEAR TRUTH, WHY?!?! what's going to happen to ran fan now? WHY?!?!?!

and as for the whole thing about hohenheim...say what you want to say, but i still think he's pride. not only did father hint it, but in on page of the manga (i forget which chapter)

Woman: What are you?!
Hoho: A monster (and as for the background, we panels of him and the other homunculi)

now i ask you...why would arakawa draw something like that?

Why would a prideful Homunculi demote himself to a "monster"? Why doens't Hohenheim match Pride's out line? Pride is so important to Father's mission, how come he hadn't heard from Hohenheim in a long time?

Add: Why wouldn't kokoro_shadow_angel notice that in that same splash page there were only Wrath and Gluttony (not all the hommunculi) Ranfan, who's definitely not one and Ling who's def... who WASN'T definitely one back then tongue.gif?
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(Ladymercury @ Dec 13 2005, 07:07 AM) [snapback]328939[/snapback]

Yes, it was mentioned about two pages ago.

also, this is a thread soley about 54 so you should have figured 'hmmm 16 pages? there must be spoilers!


*nods* but then again some people provide spoilers everywhere *sighs* evil-ness
Full Metal Elf
Yay!! I found up to pg 37 translated!! happy.gif..can't wait to read the rest..but all I can say is...WOW!! O_O.....The craziness of it!! And like everyone else is asking...who or what is Hoho-papa!?!? Hehe...(sigh)...and LING...oy...I want to read the rest translated...i'll be back when it's there..happy.gif...
MasterKris
WOAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO LING DID DESIRE FOR GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GASP!! WHAT THE HECT IS WRONG WITH YA LING???!!
kokoro_shadow_angel
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 13 2005, 05:04 AM) [snapback]328772[/snapback]

Oh nothing, just a funny coincidence I wanted to point out tongue.gif:
You just said that Arakawa sensei had to be an excellent chess player, whereas that guest said she probably hasn't played chess in her life.

And Guest said so because in the scene where Roy is playing Chess against that East general, Riza's grandpa, whose name I don't remember, Roy does Check Mate. But if you look at the board, IIRC, the position, which is clearly shown, is not Check Mate, but Check only.

would anybody like to point me to the chapter and page of this scene? because i'd like to see ^^


QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 13 2005, 05:04 AM) [snapback]328772[/snapback]

Add: Why wouldn't kokoro_shadow_angel notice that in that same splash page there were only Wrath and Gluttony (not all the hommunculi) Ranfan, who's definitely not one and Ling who's def... who WASN'T definitely one back then tongue.gif?

...well, considering that showing ling in that splash page might have been foreshadowing....what if ran fan becomes the new lust?
okay, i'm shutting up now...enough sugar for me ><

back to the main question: what the heck is hohenheim ><
Reika
@sensenic: haha XD I just said that I bet she is a great chess player, not that she plays XD but well, this is starting to sound random XD I'll take a look at the image, I never noticed O.o
Full Metal Elf
Ok...so..now that i've read ALL of it...again..all I can say is OMG..hehe happy.gif. So..Ling gave in willingly...this will make it interesting...and I think he'll have a much better chance of fighting back with Greed...to hopefully regain control of his body....This is going to be so interesting!
Jellybean
QUOTE(kokoro_shadow_angel @ Dec 13 2005, 03:09 PM) [snapback]329038[/snapback]

QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 13 2005, 05:04 AM) [snapback]328772[/snapback]

Oh nothing, just a funny coincidence I wanted to point out tongue.gif:
You just said that Arakawa sensei had to be an excellent chess player, whereas that guest said she probably hasn't played chess in her life.

And Guest said so because in the scene where Roy is playing Chess against that East general, Riza's grandpa, whose name I don't remember, Roy does Check Mate. But if you look at the board, IIRC, the position, which is clearly shown, is not Check Mate, but Check only.

would anybody like to point me to the chapter and page of this scene? because i'd like to see ^^



It was chapter 25, pages 20-22. happy.gif It looks like a checkmate to me, because the knight's in position to take the king, and a pawn will get it if it moves forward and the queen across the board will get it if it moves right, but I can't really tell what the piece next to the knight is and I know jack about chess anyways, so I'll shut up now.
Nepharski

QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 13 2005, 05:04 AM) [snapback]328772[/snapback]

Oh nothing, just a funny coincidence I wanted to point out tongue.gif:
You just said that Arakawa sensei had to be an excellent chess player, whereas that guest said she probably hasn't played chess in her life.

And Guest said so because in the scene where Roy is playing Chess against that East general, Riza's grandpa, whose name I don't remember, Roy does Check Mate. But if you look at the board, IIRC, the position, which is clearly shown, is not Check Mate, but Check only.

Why does this have my name? I never wrote that.
AA battery
QUOTE(Queen of the dammed @ Dec 12 2005, 06:00 AM) [snapback]328485[/snapback]

*De-lurks for a moment* Hmm... after reading this chapter:
[spoiler] Well, to be honest, I think Ling turning into Greed may not be a bad thing for the Elrics. Afterall, has Greed EVER listened to father? No, not in the last few hundred years. So this probably means he's not going to start now, is he? I mean the most likely thing that's going to happen is that he' going to go "Thanks for the body old man!!! BYE BYE!!!" and hop off to form a new Devil's nest or something, which means that now father has just recreated a problem instead of eliminating one. Which is sort of a good thing for Ed and Al.

But... LING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TT.TT I LOVED YOU!!!!!! *Cries for the next month*[/spoiler]


agreed.

QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 12 2005, 12:06 PM) [snapback]328530[/snapback]

What is taking those people so long to update the MSN!?!?!?

People, Lust is dead. Her PS shattered. Greed could be resurrected because his PS was preserved.

Lust is gone. Period. Pay attention people.


I still think there is the possibility of new Lust... Somehow, I think if Riza is not the new Lust, then she has gotta be involved in the production of it somehow... or likely, the one used to open the gate.

QUOTE(Kirara @ Dec 12 2005, 01:24 PM) [snapback]328555[/snapback]

QUOTE
I still think Lust can come back, Arakawa can do it if she wants.


Arakawa can do whatever she wants, except to this point everything Arakawa has written has made sense with the context of the story and had a purpose. You can bet there is a reason why Lusts’s stone was completely destroyed and Greed’s was not. Also I can’t see Arakawa playing the same trick. The reason why Greed coming back was so fascinating is none of us expected it (and if someone out there did expect this development, kudos to them). If Lust is brought back somehow it wouldn’t be as exciting because it already happened with Greed. Still I don’t think it is physically possible to bring back Lust without creating a new philosopher stone, and I am pretty sure the resources of Xerxes were already used up with the last stone.

Perhaps Father does want to make another stone, but for some reason I think his plans are more sinister than creating new homunculus.


hmm...


oh well don't feel like commenting anymore xD;; *drags legs back to study*


Sensenic: I hope my avatar shows that I am clearly a girl now... cuz the drawing style is so chibi... (altho Al is a GUY...)

whatever, I don't care anymore.

and I love my new signature. period. ^___________________^ BELIEVE LIN!
Full Metal Elf
I agree that this may be a good thing that happened to Ling. We all know Greed NEVER listened to Father...hates Father...so..yes, why would he start listening now?

What I see possibly happening is...what if Greed/Ling join forces with Ed and Al...bring down Father together...especially if they all hate him. Greed may be Greedy, but he knows how to make the right friends. And then, with the help of Ran Fan and the others, they might be able to help pull Ling through as well. At least, this is my hopes for all this...happy.gif
Sensenic
QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Dec 13 2005, 05:13 PM) [snapback]328952[/snapback]

QUOTE(Ladymercury @ Dec 13 2005, 07:07 AM) [snapback]328939[/snapback]

Yes, it was mentioned about two pages ago.

also, this is a thread soley about 54 so you should have figured 'hmmm 16 pages? there must be spoilers!


*nods* but then again some people provide spoilers everywhere *sighs* evil-ness

*Feels guilty* sad.gif
But I couldn't help it, about my avatar. That pose, that smile, on THAT person... ohmy.gif

Anyway, an advice for Otoki Tomoe, if you happen to read this: Instead of starting from the end, you could start from the beginning and "flip" pages quickly till you find a link with a comment similar to OMG!!! Translation's out!!! Go get it ppl!! next to it tongue.gif

Also, we could make a spoiler free links thread, without comments on the chapter. No? What do you think?
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 14 2005, 02:04 AM) [snapback]329146[/snapback]

QUOTE(Nepharski @ Dec 13 2005, 05:04 AM) [snapback]328772[/snapback]

Oh nothing, just a funny coincidence I wanted to point out tongue.gif:
You just said that Arakawa sensei had to be an excellent chess player, whereas that guest said she probably hasn't played chess in her life.

And Guest said so because in the scene where Roy is playing Chess against that East general, Riza's grandpa, whose name I don't remember, Roy does Check Mate. But if you look at the board, IIRC, the position, which is clearly shown, is not Check Mate, but Check only.

Why does this have my name? I never wrote that.

LOL, that's how you discover that not only you sleepwalk, but also sleeppost.
You, redblob. tongue.gif
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Dec 14 2005, 01:26 PM) [snapback]329159[/snapback]

Sensenic: I hope my avatar shows that I am clearly a girl now... cuz the drawing style is so chibi... (altho Al is a GUY...)

whatever, I don't care anymore.

Dunno, I just know your a girl 'cuz I read it in a post of yours some time ago. I try (but fail miserably, I admit happy.gif) not to guess people's gender from their tastes (which includes avs 'n sigs, among other things).

And, Well, in case you care again, remind you that there's always the "gender" option at your profile, which you have now set as "Not telling" (which gives kind of a "hi∑mi∑tsu! <3" attitude feeling.).
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Dec 14 2005, 01:26 PM) [snapback]329159[/snapback]

and I love my new signature. period. ^___________________^ BELIEVE LIN!

Certainly!
QUOTE(Full Metal Elf @ Dec 14 2005, 02:33 PM) [snapback]329166[/snapback]

I agree that this may be a good thing that happened to Ling. We all know Greed NEVER listened to Father...hates Father...so..yes, why would he start listening now?

What I see possibly happening is...what if Greed/Ling join forces with Ed and Al...bring down Father together...especially if they all hate him. Greed may be Greedy, but he knows how to make the right friends. And then, with the help of Ran Fan and the others, they might be able to help pull Ling through as well. At least, this is my hopes for all this...happy.gif

Ah... This's what most of us are saying right now (more or less). We can only hope... sleep.gif{-sigh-
ElvishVamp
The main things tormenting me:

1. What is Hohenheim? He's obviously not human, but I doubt he's a homunculus either.

2. What does that make Ed and Al? They must be at least partially human...unless Trisha wasn't human either! O_O Alright, no more conspiracy theories about Trisha from me...

3. Is this the same Greed? I'm pretty sure it is, especially considering he told Father "Thanks for birthing me again." Why would he say again if this was a whole new homunculus? Then again, I can't be totally sure from just two lines...

4. Why do all the homunculi still have black hair?! Even the thing Ed and Al made when they transmuted their mother had black hair! What this could possibly mean, I haven't a clue, but I think this is something that will come back later.

Didn't Roy say something to Wrath a few chapters ago about there being a possibility that he could be a human again? Maybe this could be applied to Lin later on.

While I do acknowledge the fact that it is possible for a new Lust to be created with a new philosopher's stone, it is extremely unlikely. Which saddens me, because Lust was my fav homunculus. *laughs* What if Roy became the new Lust? I mean, he does keep stealing Havoc's girlfriend and stuff...

Which reminds me, I miss Havoc! T_T

EDIT: I quoted Greed wrong. He doesn't say again. Don't know why I thought he did...
Animeoldtimer
QUOTE(ElvishVamp @ Dec 14 2005, 01:17 PM) [snapback]329251[/snapback]

*laughs* What if Roy became the new Lust? I mean, he does keep stealing Havoc's girlfriend and stuff...




I was thinking since he wants to be King that he might find a way to defeat Bradley and become the new Wrath. That was just one of my wild ideas. I don't think that would be a spoiler right?
Animeoldtimer
~ Based on what's on Chapter 54, Can Homunculi (manga based) have children? ~

I know the subject of the homunculi having children was discussed probably on the anime forum, however based on what we've learned in Chapter 54 of the manga why couldn't they? Did Ling suddenly become sterile when he became Greed? Maybe this explains the Erlics father.
kaizenyorii
i dunno......Wrath cant have kids (he has an adopted one), and he was most likely sterile before his PS injection. i think the PS rearranges you inner organs so that the stone is the center instead of a heart, so maybe thats why.....
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