..... My thoughts are just.... The world is a hard place. No offence but, it very selfish to kill yourself. That's like handing the terribale(sp?) life you had down to the ones closest to you.. But I write songs about it all the time.... oh well, I like emo stuff.

I'm not going to type more than I have to. There haven't many times in this debate where more than one sentence was required. For example, I could have just said "I'm not going to type more than I have to, and so far I haven't had to." But since you're so "intelligent" as you put it, I'll give your unnecessary statement a longer response. First off, did you just grab my responses and copy and paste them? Because if you had been reading anything that had been going on, you'd see that one sentence responses aren't just coming from me, and that most of the ones in your quote box are questions.....I'm the one ASKING for explanation. Secondly, I'm not trying to win this debate. The inevitable outcome of this all is that the topic will die. I stated my opinion and now I'm defending my opinion and since my opinion differs from yours, questioning yours. And lastly, I don't need tips on how to debate nor do I want them. I don't care for your respect, and therefore I don't really care if you like how I debate. I don't care if I'm pissing you off or if my opinion offends you. It's my opinion. If you don't like it, don't read. Think about that the next time you decide to come with a worthless block of words like the one I just responded to. Oh and please don't bother responding to this part of my post, It's highly off topic, so I'd rather not. I don't consider depression a mental illness because it seems self-inflicted. I think the re are very few TRUE mental illnesses. I've already seen where a mental illness will be created on the spot SPECIFICALLY to describe one person. I find this entire idea to be preposterous. If a person is truly mentally ill and does not know what they are doing, then I can't really judge their actions can I? However, if the person has the mental capacity to realize what they are doing, then I have no respect for them."Serious suicide is for quitters and cowards.
'Attempted' suicide is for attention-starved brats.

That's all i have to say on this issue."

That's a quote from void from the second page of the topic. Simple, to the point, and very similar to my opinion. Yet he didn't receive half the shit I got for my opinion. Grow up. I'm not even going to attempt to debate the idiotic idea that his post that added absolutely nothing debate was ok, but a similar post from me is grounds for a rant....You just need to shut up. You have two choices, actually debate my arguments or sit back and watch, because I'm not going to bother making another post defending my actions. I never said me shooting you in the face is cowardly. The point is,it's a choice, but a bad one. Just like suicide. Since phoenix dying assumes that you are an idiot and can't understand the things I'm saying, I'll ask you. Do you understand what I'm saying here? No. By my logic, a man jumping off a cliff is self-inflicted death. By your logic, the ground killed him. Suicide by cop is self inflicted. The cops did not suicide the person because that's impossible. They also did not murder the person. He jumped off a cliff, and the cops were nothing but the ending point of the fall.I'm not telling anyone not to kill themselves, I'm simply stating that I think it's cowardly and that I have no respect for anyone that commits suicide. I'm not imposing my beliefs on anyone, and I DO have the right to my beliefs do I not? I don't have any obligation to respect in what in my opinion is a coward. So instead of imposing your moral beliefs on me, move on. I realize a cold isn't fatal. But the point was to expose the flaw of your statement. You said that if a treatment wasn't providing enough relief that it wasn't doing it's job. The amount of relief expected from each person is relative, and should be defined by the doctor, not the patient. What if they didn't want treatment at all? And also, if life support is the only thing keeping them alive it's one thing. But if they have like a year to live, then I'm still finding it selfish.[quote]
Homeless people, Orphans, single adult children who's parents have died. There are people who don't have families and millions who don't have jobs.

Suicide is one of the most selfish things anyone can do... People are always wrong when they say "no one would care if something happened to me". Nothing is more precious than human life and the love it creates.

I don't care if anyone says that it is close minded or idealistic. It is the truth, and you can try to come up with all the exceptions you want, but more often than not, it is selfish, and I wish people would just... stop and take time to think and breathe and talk and realize that life is worth living...

Ah, Slashrose1010, but that is only your point of view. All that is on this thread is only someone's point of view, I'm afraid. Not 'truth', not even close.

I would ask you to put yourself in the mindset of a suicidal person, but that would be impossible. It isn't about what is right or wrong, or even why, on a universal scale you seem to be thinking of, 'life is worth living'. It is about, I believe, a very subjective state of mind. It is not selfishness, because like everything else, what is 'selfish' is relative. And if it's one thing someone who is suicidal cannot understand, it is themselves in relation to others and vice versa: community and the love of others are made obsolete, pointless. There is such thing as the love of a community, the inherent worth of human life. But there is also such thing as free will and the ability to act only for one's self.

I know, that is the sterile realistic logical point of view. I agree with you, don't get me wrong, but I still believe that it is quite selfish. I know that all the person wants is peace or freedom from paine, but causes that much paine to anyone who loves that person. Of course suicidal people deny the love of others if it exists, even if it is coming from the ones closest to them... I do realize that it is an extreme mental disorder.

I just wish people could just somehow notice that these thoughts are running through people's minds, but it is rare that they do. It just seems like another bad day, but sometimes one too many bad days can tip the scale...

Is it not similarly selfish for the friends/family members to deign to give their 'love' as a reason for the individual not to take their own life?



Now that, I wholeheartedly agree with.

That is exactly the problem...the ones who usually are suicidal don't promote that they want to die and the attention seekers get attention they don't deserve. As you say suicide can hurt a lot of people...thinking what could they have done...but in many cases there is very little they could have done.

Same here. Homicide is cruel. No one should deserve to die in the hands of a cold blooded murderer whose excuse was rediculous. I don't care if Jesus told you it was for the better, don't take ones life just cause you can. I also go with this is criminal executions.



This is a stupid reason. Ok, for the obese, listen, you don't have to kill yourself cause your 70+ pounds over weight. You know what you have to do? Diet, and excersise.
Maybe you should put the fry's and hamburger down, head to subway, or home, and find something healthy to eat.
Reduce your calorie count, don't eat fatty stuff, no more fast food restuarants, excersise for an hour, or 30 minutes everyday, and your good.
I don't like when people say, especially women, "I'm so fat, why me? what am i doing to deserve this?"
"Uh, honey, look where you are and what your eating."
And then people always say it's hard to diet, or loose weight.
I've been there. Age 12, 4'10, 138 lbs.
Now by keeping my life healthy, Age 16, 5'1, 109 lbs.
So no excuses.


Before I go and also admit I don't like suicide I have to confess, I was a self injurer, and had suicidal thoughts, but never did i have the guts to do it.
Not only because i was scared, but also cause i thought of how stupid i would seem, and how sad my dad would become. Sure friends too, but time passes and soon they cope.
Then, i began to think of e good reason to destroy a life that was given so many things when people out in the world live off the clothe on their back and eat the worms or dirt beneath them.

People do lead their own lifes and you could do what you want, live it well, or screw it up.
But you also have to remember before you hang yourself, or bleed yourself to death. You all who are in this forum, typing from a computer, have something.
You have shelter, food, a family, or half, even though they ignore you, their still there. You have friends, even if it's one. You have clothing, even if it's just a few.
Don't waste your life when someone out there crys everynight wishing that they had a life like yours, not caring if it was crap, but that they would atleast have food, shelter, family, and education.

I do agree with how some say its someone to his own life, but then again, i also agree with how selfish it would be to just take it away without thinking.

I thought about it. But something keeps me clinging to this life and to keep living no matter how bad things seem. I wonder why I want to live even though I don't think I fear death.

I have no clue how to use quote (Some one please explain?).
Chiyo, I'm all for you. That really is how people are. It sickens me. I should know because I've attempted it and failed. But I wasn't emo or anything, I just had a real fucked up year. And I'd liked to say that I'm over it and don't have thoughts about it, but I can't. It's not a decision that comes and goes constantly, it takes time, and balls. it takes balls to do it, but it also takes balls to stop yourself. It annoys me when people feel sorry for themselves and make those embarrassing scratches in their wrists. And then, they show it to the world, and receive attention for their selfishness. If they were seriously depressed or had mental issues, they woudn't show anyone or make a scene.

My opinion, honestly, would be that anyone stupid enough to want to kill themselves needs to take a look at themselves first. I mean, come on. Life is so short, why would you want to shorten it more? And if someone seriously ails, they don't really want to die... they want to be saved.

That's it, really...

I wonder how this logic works:

1. Those who have suicidal thoughts are not thinking rationally
2. Rational arguments to prevent suicide are impossible (per 1)
3. Taking action based on irrational thinking is to be avoided (moral appeal)
4. Those who commit suicide take action based on irrational thoughts, which should be avoided (per 1 & 3)
5. Society should protect people from irrational action (per 3 & expanded moral appeal)
6. Society has an obligation to prevent someone from commiting suicide (per 1,3,5)

As a side note, I do think that rational arguments showing how suicide is "stupid" or "selfish" are not really meaningful. Suicide in itself is an irrational choice and the key assumption for the above notes.

What wrong with this statement people?

Yea and going on and killing everyone is so much better. People do that because thats all they can see as a way out. Some people will just go and kill the other person and then take a few more out just for the hell of it.

What an argument to help your case. When you say something like that you just sound like an idiot. So give reasons, facts something to back up what you have to say.
That may be true but what is suicide? Suicide is to take ones life is it not? Jesus did this for a reason. He did it to save us all. as well all know.


That is the most idiotic statement that I have seen to date. It happens Not a lot you can do about it.
Like Popogeejo said doctors may not be able to help. They even can recommend death.

OK well I have a family member who is losing his mind. For me and my mum to look after him would be highly impractical. We are to far out of any town for if something to go wrong we cant help for him in a few min. its more like a few hours. We cant get the fact that he cant remember a thing so telling him to do this and not that (dont play with fire play with that dog.) Can be something of a nightmare. as well as the fact that we need to keep an eye on him all the time. I get off work at 2am so I cant expect him to come to work every night to pick me up with my mum. We would need someone to keep an eye on him while that happens. So for me and my family it would be to much of a burden. So it would in a way be cold as you said but a hell of a lot better for all for him to be in a hospital.

Thats because we know he has an IQ. From memory he said something like this but in more words "suicide is not suicide when you do it because of medical reasons" He is rite but then again he is wrong because it is still suicide. We also understood where he is coming from. He was logical you have not been as much.

Ok Im just going to say that’s true you can t argue with that statement and all that.
People who are thinking about suicide don’t see it as that. They see it as no one can help no one knows that they are alive that type of thing. They see the problem as they fighting the world and that’s it. No help no nothing.

One of my friend's attempted at suicide, but couldn't do it. There's always a way out, or help so to speak.

Suicide should be a person's choice (legally). However, that does not mean that I think suicide is by any means right. This is because I am a selfish human being who has a friend who gets depressed/suicidal (though he's promised me he won't off himself until he's at least twenty). I mean, it's just not right that you put the people you leave behind, well, left behind (I know that sounded less than brilliant; I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it). In short, it's not something I'd ever want anyone to do, but in the end it's their choice, because it's their life.

I've been to the point when I was younger where I couldn't take all my stress, and things that were going on in my life. So I would think about it, but then always get a HUGE headace or some thought inside my head telling me I shouldn't. After getting into Middle/High school, I started to make lots of friends, and joined lots of clubs, and sports teams . I haven't had one thought or even a sensation of suicide cause I knew what I would be losing. My friends, and family, and not being able to spend time with them. I now think just to have fun, and not to worry about things that are come in the future even if somethings are bad. Just to go on, and be healthy taking life as it comes .

(Everyone has a decision in life. So don't say I couldn't help but think it cause its your body, and your mind. Only you can control it .)

I've seen suicide so many times; at least the scenes of it, and I can't seem to find myself to cry about it, anymore. But if you want my thoughts, it's this!

Suicide may be thought to save you, when truly, it doesn't. The feelings that were around you will be carried with you down into the fiery darkness that is hell. Dying of natural cause, or of murder, gets you to heaven (if you pray for forgiveness, and your good goes over your bad), but if you kill yourself, according to what I was taught, you'll just suffer for eternity.

So, if you are even considering it, I have one word of advice: DON'T. It will not save you, for the despair is a sin, and if you accept that sin, you accept hell.

On a quick note:

I know there are religious views on suicide and there are other views, but if we could refrain from the telling people that if you're going to die by suicide you're only going to hell etc etc... this will only cause fighting. Thanks! -ScarMySoul


OT:

My step brother's mom killed herself. Though her reasons were a lot deeper like, being abused as a child not only by a parent but by a sibling, being a closet alcoholic as well as pill popping... I don't think suicide is a way to go. If you're willing to get help for your problems and move forward with the help you do receive in order to make yourself better, then you can move past all the skeletons in your closet and live your life...

I've lost a friend through suicide, I have a friend who has a written out plan for suicide, and the other began to cut and tells me she contemplates suicide.
One too many. I don't want to loose another friend--especially if it's going to be 3 at once.

Honestly... Suicide is one greedy act. Although some of you may think that it's one way to relieve yourself of the pain and suffering this damnable world has to offer, you're only bringing grief and giving those aroudn you your suffering. You msut all stop and think how it will effect those around you. If maybe your mother does not love you how about your father? If not your parents siblings? Friends? Others in the family. You loose your chance of relieving the stress in a different more delightful way.
You miss your chance to smile and laugh again.
All those little things that you love that make life at least a bit better. They'll be gone.

Maybe this world revolves around pain, misery, agony, but there shall always be something there that should stop you from suicide. Suicide is not a way to go.. It is not an art, and it's the ultimate way. All-in-all it's just a way to make you suffer more.

Suicide is one of the main reasons i plan on being a pyschiatrist. To make my friends smile again and hopefully stop them from suicide if that time comes. The human brain is a beautiful thing, it does not deserve to be tainted with the blood of suicide. There is my crazy opinion. and I will be back to edit this post and add full detail. That's a promise.

But there isn't always.

Of course I agree that suicide is extremely selfish. In most cases you can be helped, only often you don't realise it at the time. Which is damn tragic. I know people who've had times in their lives when they really didn't want to go on living, and when they were serioulsy considering suicide. At the time they were dead serious and couldn't see a brighter future. But today, 5 years later, they're so happy and thankful that they didn't go through with it. In hindsight, you realise that you weren't thinking clearly.

But, in cases where truly nothing or no one can help you, I'm not as against it. Some may argue that there's ALWAYS something to be done, but guess what, there isn't.

I do support one's right to choose over your own life and body, and when it comes to really sick or incapacitated people with only pain in their lives, with nothing in their lives to make it worth living, I'm for euthanasia. It's cruel to keep people alive who don't even have anything you could call a "life".

As an example, some months ago there was a huge fuzz in the media about whether or not the law against euthanasia should be revoked, during extenuaing circumstances (note that euthanasia is not the same as assisted suicide). The case that brought this to light was a woman in her early 30ies, who couldn't move an inch of her body. She could barely move the muscles in her face if I recall correctly. This was due to a disease which she had been suffering from since very early age, and her condition had only worsened, until she became completely incapacitated. And she had been so for the last 16 years or so, lying in a hospital bed day in and day out, only kept alive thanks to machines and medication. She pleaded to the government to make changes in the law regarding euthanasia, she sent a letter describing her situation and saying how every day was nothing but pain for her, that she really didn't see a point with her life. She was being kept alive, not living. And, they changed it. She was finally allowed some piece of mind.

Anyone insisting on keeping a person like this alive against their own will is cruel, in my book. There are tons of people in similiar situations, people who have MS and suffer excrutiating pains everyday that prevent them from having anything like a normal life whatsoever. There are people who can't take care of themlselves, who are stuck in their apartments for the rest of their lives, who need help with eating, showering, getting dressed, going to the bathroom etc. etc. Not a very fulfilling or dignifying life. In many cases not a life at all. In extreme situations like this, I think you should be allowed to choose not living.

My opinion is that people should do whatever they want unless they aren't completely aware of the consequences of their actions. Psychologically speaking most people commit suicide as a last resort for a problem. The attempt without the ending means a shriek of despair crying out for any friend or human contact of any kind for help. To do it without thinking or purpose is useless, though some might actually say it's artistic, whatever it's their problem, not mine. I guess I'm ok with it if THIS ain't the situation (either) : Have family or friends or lover(s) who care about you; or have an important duty to do that you can still do it; or if you are pregnant... not to be harsh on the lost souls but honestly we humans make a big fuss if someone dies, usually it's rare to see an animal committing suicide, we cry sometimes for some we didn't even thought we cared. To all the nihilist readers "you are alive!" everybody has strings attached to them or attached to others don't cut them for no apparent reason at least try to make the best of living (i know it sounds cheesy but it actually seems right if you think about it). Not trying here to imply there is a reason for everything or that i know what a life's worth, I only know that no one knows and that usually includes you too.

Mmh... interesting discussions.

I think there are at least three reasons for people thinking about suicide...
Love. Yeah. I know a guy who tried to kill himself twice because of a chick. I am so happy that he didn't manage. Such a dork. She used him but this isn't a reason for killing yourself. I have been told about a guy whose friend wanted to hang himself in his room. The guy noticed it and rescued him. Some years later his friend married another chick and was happy like never before.

Alcohol/Drugs. Have you ever met a REAL alcoholic? I mean really real. Who are shaking like some heroine-addicted guys. In poor countries they usually sell all their things to get alcohol, don't even say anything about drugs.

Sickness. That's quite rare if you ask me... I usually hear that sick people start misusing meds. Morphium or how ever it's called.

Bullying is more that they kill you before you kill yourself.

I dislike people who want to commit suicide. Especially the young ones. My earlier class mate wanted to kill herself with some pills. She informed a friend in icq and the friend called the police. That stupid chick. She wanted to kill herself because of laziness. But that's another story, she just stopped coming to school but she wasn't bullied or anything. Our school is small, and me, as a pseudo-spy, I know everything what's going on.
I'm just feeling sad cause it makes me sad that some people won't live with us in this world. Then I start to feel lonely. Sounds selfish. I hate when people die, I got enough of this. And when they go by themselves, I just want to punch them. And I mean the young stupid people who have their lives before themselves. Not about cases where you just can shake your head and say "There was nothing else to do"

Don't EVER threaten your parents that you will commit suicide if things are rough and if tensions with them are bad.

i know suicide is a choice, but i feel it's wrong. even if you found your way out, the ones that care about you will feel pain because you're gone. i also know that some might be as lucky as others, either they don't believe anyone cares for them, or worse, they really don't, but i still feel like life is something you have to see all the way through(you only get one). who knows, maybe somewhere down the line, you find a reason to wanting to live again.

I have thought about killing myself a number of times....I was recently diagnosed with depression. Whenever I've told people I'd kill myself though I knew it was a lie because I know I couldn't do it because I know that some people do love me and I could never really leave them....but it doesn't mean that sometimes I don't feel like I want to die and think about it.

Sometimes I just wonder why I exist in this world...and feel so worthless and pathetic and like everyone is looking down on me. I try to seem confident but I know inside it's a struggle.

I have been bullied a lot. As a kid some other kids actually called me a monster and told me I wasn't even a human due to the red mark on my face that I was born with. I've been physically attacked too by crazy humans.

One of my family members killed himself when I was 15 years old. It was 11 years ago now. I saw how upset it made the people who loved him, which is how I'm able to avoid doing it myself.

Here is my opinion. I think women tend to commit suicide more because they are emmotionally sensitive (sometimes over sensitive) than the opposite sex. As to the no. Of males greater. Most men turns to be introverts and are most likely to keep their problems for themselves. Which is in a way, very depressing.

In response to the post above, that sad fact that males keep their problems to themselves is sadly true. This is coming from a former cutter/man with suicidal tendencies, but no one knew that I even thought of killing myself until I spoke up after the fact, in which no one could even really do anything. It's also sad because when a man commits suicide, because of the fact that they've kept all their feelings inside, it comes as a major shock because any sort of problem wasn't know in the first place.