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eX Dream
<Moved the thread from FMA Anime Japanese Audience sub-forum to FMA Anime forum section front. 02/03/07 ~Tombow>



I was just wondering if anyone else interpreted the military based government in FMA as a satire of the American government. First of all, the FMA characters are white caucasians, and the military system, especially the hierarchary, is very similar to that of the American military.

But, what struck me most about FMA was the incident (massacre) with the people of Ishbal. These supposedly people were driven off their homeland by violence because they believe in a different god. This can be compared to the current situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the US is trying to convert their system of governent to a Democracy (some might speculate that we're trying to Christianize those people) ultimately through violence.

Not only that, but the people of Ishbal actually LOOK Islamic. The brown skin, the style of clothing all look similar to the people in the Middle East.

Iono...maybe this is all just a coincidence, but I would like some other input on this...
TheVileOne
You obviously don't pay attention to the series. The people of Ishbal weren't driven from their land because they believe in a different God, they were driven from their homes b/c Dante and her homunculus were trying to create the Philosopher's stone and manipulated events to do so.

And other than a few similarities, I don't think they are mocking the US govt. at all. If they are, I can deal with that, but I still don't think its like that.
Carnal Malefactor
Ishval had weapons of mass destruction! I have proof of it, and it's right...over...HERE!


[runs away]
Style
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Sep 24 2004, 04:22 AM)
Ishval had weapons of mass destruction! I have proof of it, and it's right...over...HERE!


[runs away]

well technically they did...scars brother
Chibi Viki
QUOTE
Not only that, but the people of Ishbal actually LOOK Islamic. The brown skin, the style of clothing all look similar to the people in the Middle East.


yes and no... remember, the catholic faith also started from the east. early christians would've looked like them. looking closely at the ishbar religion and culture as so far seen, it is entirely different from islam... a lot of people come to the conclusion that ishbar religion and its people is an interpretation of the islamic religion and its people when the truth is it is the representation of the religious society of the world.

the military vs. ishbar is more like science vs. religion.

QUOTE
I was just wondering if anyone else interpreted the military based government in FMA as a satire of the American government. First of all, the FMA characters are white caucasians, and the military system, especially the hierarchary, is very similar to that of the American military.


hmmm... let's see... the US is a democratic state wherein Amesteris is under dictatorship. all power belong to the fuhrer, the president may have the power, but he can only excercise it under constitution and rely on the votes of the people to put him in power.

the dictator can declare war w/o counsel while the president must wait for the approval of the senate to declare war.

the head of the american army does not have the power to declare war nor does he have any political power over the state... only to its military. he is not head of the country and is under the president of the state.

the american army isn't the only caucassian army in the world...

see the big difference? besides, arakawa-sensei based her research more on the european settings than american.
Carnal Malefactor
The timing's a little convenient, though, wouldn't you say?
Beowulf
Isn't the Military vs. Ishbal war thing a mockery of the Sudan war? This is just a theory I heard a while back of course...
Chibi Viki
only arakawa-sensei could answer this question... but looking at the structure of the manga, the original story, i don't think it had any intention of reflecting any event in real life.
NINJ4
America? Seems more like Germany to me - since they are most popularly known for Genocide (thus the Ishbals would have been the Jews). Also, in terms of diversity, the US army consists of the most numerous races when compared to any other army in the world - Asians, Natives, Latinos, African - as opposed to the all Caucasian army in FMA. In terms of goverment - FMA has a militaristic dictatorship compared to the democratic/republic system that the US uses. Although less socialistic than the current Western Europe, the US still is far from being a Military Dictatorship. Maybe its just a name thing, but the leader of the US is called a "President" where as the leader in FMA is called "Fuher" - and if i recall it right, it was either the Germans or the Russians that have named their leaders Fuher.
Queen of the dammed
Atermis= Nazi Gemany
King Bradley=Adolf Hitler(You *beep*ing *beep**beep*)
Isbal massacre=Holocaust
State Alchemists=the SS

If you did Nazi Germany in history you should see the links...
Guest
QUOTE(Chibi Viki @ Sep 24 2004, 07:22 AM)
only arakawa-sensei could answer this question... but looking at the structure of the manga, the original story, i don't think it had any intention of reflecting any event in real life.

Actually arakawa-sensei has no responsibility to answer for the anime since bones already freely twisted whatever idea she has into their own (e.g. gate, equivalent trade, truth, characters, story, etc). If there is any 'similarity' to our current world, the answer lies with bones.
dreamcatcher_alchemist
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Sep 24 2004, 05:01 AM)
The timing's a little convenient, though, wouldn't you say?

yes, but couldn't it just be coincidental to everything that's going on right now anyways?

and if it mocks our government, I say go for it. tongue.gif

~ais
Queen of the dammed
I stilll think it's more like Germany...
- Lancer -
It's kinda convenient but I don't think it's based on the US government, it would be funny if it was though.. rolleyes.gif
EditDeath
Its definitely closer to Germany, but I gotta agree that the timing is pretty convenient. Besides, the way Bush is running things, the rest of the world can't exactly see the U.S. as much better. I swear, the way the U.N. was looking at Bush during his speech, if looks could kill, the election would be Kerry v. Cheney.

*shivers*
MaesHughes33
Bad theory....... Theres no way Japs made the government seem like the US. The US government is nothing new, and neither is invasion. They could of been modeling it after the Roman empire for all we care.

They made the government to fit the plot, not model the US Government. Bad theory.
TheVileOne
QUOTE(EditDeath @ Sep 24 2004, 09:58 PM)
Its definitely closer to Germany, but I gotta agree that the timing is pretty convenient. Besides, the way Bush is running things, the rest of the world can't exactly see the U.S. as much better. I swear, the way the U.N. was looking at Bush during his speech, if looks could kill, the election would be Kerry v. Cheney.

*shivers*

Yeah. Especially after the U.N. was exposed for the bogus, corrupt institution and organization that it is. Can you say OIL FOR FOOD?
Torx
QUOTE(Style @ Sep 24 2004, 04:32 AM)
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Sep 24 2004, 04:22 AM)
Ishval had weapons of mass destruction! I have proof of it, and it's right...over...HERE!


[runs away]

well technically they did...scars brother

good one.
Vael
Another thing to back up the Amestris=Nazi Germany theory: Note the large amounts of people with blonde hair and blue eyes.

Also note how Roy's mass use of FIRE during the Ishbal Massacre is emphasized throughout the entire thing..... death by fire... Sound familiar?

And Fuhrer is German for "Supreme Leader". Hitler was Germany's only fuhrer, I do believe... I could be wrong on that one, though (Rolf, correct me if I am, assumin you're even reading this XP)
Carnal Malefactor
'Fuhrer' is a case of fansubbers taking creative license a bit far. There's no exact English definition for "daisouto", but it could just as easily mean 'president' or 'generalissimo'.

Also remember that Ishival's people weren't massacred because of ethnicity or race.
Guest
Concerning the Ishbal massacre, I actually made more of a connection with it and the Armenian Genocide from WWI rather than the Holocaust. Though you can argue that since the Jewish people are a religious group, they are more closely related to the Ishvarites.
Guest
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Sep 26 2004, 02:53 AM)
'Fuhrer' is a case of fansubbers taking creative license a bit far. There's no exact English definition for "daisouto", but it could just as easily mean 'president' or 'generalissimo'.

Also remember that Ishival's people weren't massacred because of ethnicity or race.

Nope it is not a case of fansubber taking creative license a bit far.

Episode 8, 21 minutes 15 seconds...

Check that lettering out!

IPB Image
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Guest @ Sep 26 2004, 03:34 AM)
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Sep 26 2004, 02:53 AM)
'Fuhrer' is a case of fansubbers taking creative license a bit far. There's no exact English definition for "daisouto", but it could just as easily mean 'president' or 'generalissimo'.

Also remember that Ishival's people weren't massacred because of ethnicity or race.

Nope it is not a case of fansubber taking creative license a bit far.

Episode 8, 21 minutes 15 seconds...

Check that lettering out!

IPB Image

D'oh.

Ah, well. Can't win 'em all.
Prinz_Zoisit
QUOTE(Vael @ Sep 26 2004, 03:49 AM)
Another thing to back up the Amestris=Nazi Germany theory: Note the large amounts of people with blonde hair and blue eyes.

And Fuhrer is German for "Supreme Leader". Hitler was Germany's only fuhrer, I do believe... I could be wrong on that one, though (Rolf, correct me if I am, assumin you're even reading this XP)

hmm.. yes, in german it is "Führer".... but this is the translation of the ones who translated this anime.. it could also be "Leader" instead...

watch the anime Dragonball GT... how many in this anime got blond hair if they change into sayajiyn....

P.S.: Today in german military, the highest commander of something signs a letter not with "Führer" anymore(cause of HItler), but simply with "Leiter"(which is another german word for "leader")
Vael
You know, they make their English letters so random and obscure, in the anime... Read that entire letter... It makes NO SENSE. Also, when Roy gets that memo from Ed and you read it, it's positively RANDOM and mentions something about a museum in London, too...
Beowulf
I guess they just crammed in the bits that make no sense since I guess they don't think there viewers understand English?
Kodachrome
Fuehrer comes from the word vuehrer which means "to lead" and Fuehrer basically means "leader." And yes, it was Adolf Hitler's "rank." German soldiers referred to him as "mein Fuehrer."

Fuhrer/Fuehrer and Fuhrer w/umlaut are all interchangable btw.

While the timing on Operation: Enduring Freedom and FMA's use of the Ishvar war are pretty convienent, I'd lean more towards the German theory, especially since he is called Fuehrer. =x
Vael
The umlaut is interchangable because recently a lot of German articles on the net, I've seen, use an "e" after the umlauted vowel, probably for easier typing or some random something... lalala...

Not to mention all the cruel testing on humans, in the anime. Anyone ever read up on the Nazi medical experiments? Some of them were really ..... odd. and probably served no other use other than to sate sadistic urges...

Edit: Oh, and I wonder if FUNimation's going to change the letters or keep them, for the American release. O.o
Virtue
No one in this series is caucasian, they are all asian :-/ People just think they are caucasians because they're stupid...all anime series have asian stars. /swt
Senefen
dry.gif Thats arrgant thinking they made this series with the purpose of mocking the US. Us in the rest of the world would like to point out we exist and everything does not revolve around you.

1. There are white people in the other parts of the world.
2. If Ishabal is more or less the middle east even allowing borders to change over 400 years they'd be bordering Europe or former USSR countries *shock* hey arnt there white people there?
3. The US has a very different system of government to the FMA country (cant remember its name >.<)
4. The war is closer to the crusades of the middle ages rather than Iraq today. Or one of the endless border fights that have happned all through Europe's history.

QUOTE
The timing's a little convenient, though, wouldn't you say?

Because all those Japanese people can vote in the US election?
Remember the HUGE majority of Americans arnt watching this show. There is ALWAYS something on, if it wasnt that why not the endless war in Palastine? There's an election here in Australia in two weeks, maybe the show was made to infulence that *cough*
TheVileOne
I think FMA premieres on American TV right AFTER the election this year huh.gif .
Guest
who cares if it is none of u are old enough to vote neway lol
TheVileOne
Speak for yourself dude. I'm 21 and I am voting in November.
Guest
ya rite sure u are rolleyes.gif so who are u gonna vote for laugh.gif
TheVileOne
QUOTE(Guest @ Sep 27 2004, 03:29 AM)
ya rite sure u are rolleyes.gif  so who are u gonna vote for  laugh.gif

I'm going to vote for this site to not allow dumb ass, unregistered guests (THAT'S YOU) to post stupid crap like you are currently doing.
Guest
at least im not the liar here LOL
Carnal Malefactor
I'm 21 as well...
TheVileOne
Y'see what I'm talking about? We have these dumbass unregistered guests on these forums, calling me a liar. Well fuck you guest.
EditDeath
20 right here, third year of college. Don't like, tough.

Incidentally, I think I've figured something out with that letter. If you read the nonsensical portion, it can be interpreted as a description of the homunculous.

"Pale white and black with false citrine." Citrine is a type of stone, so the false philosopher's stones they eat could mean that, and the colors are those of the homunculi.

"The spotted panther, the green lion, the crow's beak blue as lead. These shall appear before you in perfect white..." This states that all these different beings will become white, just as the homunculi did.

Honestly, I wish I could see the whole letter. I'd be willing to bet it explains everything about the homunculi, only in code.
RoyxRiza BigFan
i think its a mix of a civil warfare plus the armageddeon in a post russian state enviroment near a middle eastern border
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