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Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > Fullmetal Alchemist Discussions > Fullmetal Alchemist Anime (FMA-1) > FMA Conqueror of Shambala Movie
yellowduckie
After watching the movie, I was so affected, both by the pre- WWII references in TCS, and the surely dissatisfying ending to a fan.

But after some analysis, I actually changed my mind about the ending. And I propose a new way of looking at the film.

If you are/were dissatisfied with the ending, I invite you to read this piece I wrote.

Yes, shameless plug.

http://www.xanga.com/libraryminion

(as a warning, it is a fairly academic but also subjective analysis.....)
The Great Asparagus
wooooww... i praise you and your wonderful writing skills

i was just happy for ed that he and al are together again, but poor winry...
Ed Elrich
QUOTE(yellowduckie @ Nov 4 2005, 07:23 AM) [snapback]308961[/snapback]

After watching the movie, I was so affected, both by the pre- WWII references in TCS, and the surely dissatisfying ending to a fan.

But after some analysis, I actually changed my mind about the ending. And I propose a new way of looking at the film.

If you are/were dissatisfied with the ending, I invite you to read this piece I wrote.

Yes, shameless plug.

http://www.xanga.com/libraryminion

(as a warning, it is a fairly academic but also subjective analysis.....)


What movie?
who me?Yes you!!!!
Sorry Yellow Duckie you may not like it, but you have to accept it. Who know's Chirstmas is coming and maybe if you have been good this year santa will grant your's and the wish of other fan's that the Bones Studio continue's the FullMetal Alchemist story . laugh.gif
kokoro_shadow_angel
actually, i thought i'd hate the ending too....but actually, i loved it...

disney has poisoned us american viewers...from the day we were born, we were taught that "all good stories have happy endings...that's just the way things are"...

children have to be taught that life isn't fair...sure, i loved barney and at one point, disney princess stories (what was i thinking?!)...but you know what? we're just lying to kids...fma's awesome because its a good story that shows us life ain't fair...and it doesn't give the happy ending we were trained to like...its the truth...embrace the truth people...

as much as i wish they'd continue the fma story...there's not much of a story to tell anymore...

read fanfics LoL
TheVileOne
I'm glad SOME people are finally having an open mind about the ending.

This is the way that the story needed to end. This is just the type of person Ed is now. I wanted him to end up with Winry too, but you know what? That's what fan fiction is for. I'm surprised no one's really doing it. Well a couple are, and a couple are well-written, but not very many.
Keos
That was well-written, YellowDuckie and I applaud you for taking the time and patience to write the analysis. The ending may not be meaningless or bad, technically speaking, but I still don't like it. In fact, I greatly dislike it, but oh well, it's all done now. Ed and Al are living in a dangerous time now, away from the Rockbells. I love my fairy tales and there's always the manga to make things more "Disney-like", maybe tongue.gif

The world is not fair and that's what has always been said in the anime, still, it would've been more satisfying to see that something fair actually happened to Ed and Al (Al having got back together with Ed is one of the more fair things that could happen, but it would've been even better to have kept the family together).
TheVileOne
QUOTE(Keos @ Nov 27 2005, 06:57 AM) [snapback]320277[/snapback]

The world is not fair and that's what has always been said in the anime, still, it would've been more satisfying to see that something fair actually happened to Ed and Al (Al having got back together with Ed is one of the more fair things that could happen, but it would've been even better to have kept the family together).


I don't feel it said this at all. I think its just what you said.

And they did keep the family together, the family being Ed and Al. I remember all the whining before the movie came out. That's what EVERYONE wanted. "Ed and Al REUNITED" That's EXACTLY what happened.
FMA23
I didn't like the ending at all. Especially for poor Winry. I was crying so much. The very least they could of done was say good bye to her....
Dusha
I thought one of the most touching parts of the movie was the fact that Ed and Al didn't have to "say" goodbye to Winry. Due to her connection with them, she knew without the words being said that she would never see them again. I find it interesting that some fans are really upset about the fact, but Winry herself looked rather resigned about the entire thing. She knew that there was something greater than her going on and willingly accepted it.
Tombow
QUOTE(Dusha @ Nov 29 2005, 10:43 AM) [snapback]321722[/snapback]

I thought one of the most touching parts of the movie was the fact that Ed and Al didn't have to "say" goodbye to Winry. Due to her connection with them, she knew without the words being said that she would never see them again.....

Wow, I didn't think that, but yeah, makes sense!!
Good observations!! happy.gif
TheVileOne
QUOTE(Dusha @ Nov 29 2005, 04:43 PM) [snapback]321722[/snapback]

I thought one of the most touching parts of the movie was the fact that Ed and Al didn't have to "say" goodbye to Winry. Due to her connection with them, she knew without the words being said that she would never see them again. I find it interesting that some fans are really upset about the fact, but Winry herself looked rather resigned about the entire thing. She knew that there was something greater than her going on and willingly accepted it.


Exactly! And this is why its great. Its sad, depressing, and yes, FRUSTRATING! But its dramatic and beautifully done. FMA is great because it incites these strong emotions out of you. If you are sad that Ed and Al will probably never see Winry again, that's exactly how you should feel.
snake-eater3
The endings is good, not great but good, I wished that they would of made a "happily ever after" thing for Hawkeye and Mustang or a pic with hawkeye with a wedding dress and Mustang with a tux.
kokoro_shadow_angel
QUOTE(TheVileOne @ Nov 30 2005, 10:24 PM) [snapback]322353[/snapback]

QUOTE(Dusha @ Nov 29 2005, 04:43 PM) [snapback]321722[/snapback]

I thought one of the most touching parts of the movie was the fact that Ed and Al didn't have to "say" goodbye to Winry. Due to her connection with them, she knew without the words being said that she would never see them again. I find it interesting that some fans are really upset about the fact, but Winry herself looked rather resigned about the entire thing. She knew that there was something greater than her going on and willingly accepted it.


Exactly! And this is why its great. Its sad, depressing, and yes, FRUSTRATING! But its dramatic and beautifully done. FMA is great because it incites these strong emotions out of you. If you are sad that Ed and Al will probably never see Winry again, that's exactly how you should feel.


man these writers are geniuses...i was hella FRUSTRATED at that depressing ending...i feel bad for her...she gave up some of the best years of her life for those guys...then again, she did get some pretty good memories out of the times she had with them....i guess that's the equivalvent exchange here....


QUOTE(snake-eater3 @ Dec 1 2005, 12:51 AM) [snapback]322425[/snapback]

The endings is good, not great but good, I wished that they would of made a "happily ever after" thing for Hawkeye and Mustang or a pic with hawkeye with a wedding dress and Mustang with a tux.

uh...considering how emo roy was in the movie, that would've been strange...plus in the movie, they made it seem like hawkeye and mustang hadn't spoken since she was taking care of him...

but i still think it was really stupid of BONES to make him all depressed in the movie...after all, he was the one telling hawkeye not to be so depressed in episode 51...that's the one thing i'd like to change about the movie...otherwise, its all sad and tragic for a good reason
zanirii_master
it wasn't bad or good, I wished to see them returning to their home 'cause Ed worked a lot to be a nacional alchemist and Al was getting stronger as an alchemist. Ed sacrificed his arm and leg and got all to be a great alchemist and for nothing at the end? well I think that, but either he joined with Al at last and it's something good for him that wished to return to his world to see him.

Well maybe if Dante appeared as a villain the end may change a lot making Ed think about his decission.

Well I think that, even if FMA Conquereor of Shamabala had a strange end it was interesting.
fmaPHSYCO
I'm glad that Al and Ed's together again and all, but they really should make a movie about Ed and Al returning to their own world...
searclaw
What did these Elric brothers want???
From the beginning of the series, all they wanted was to get back what they have lost. Al wants to feel the sensation of another person's touch once again and Ed wants to get back his arm and leg.
They want their original bodies back.
It was resolved by the end of the TV series but then a conflict arises again.
They were living in two different worlds. And Ed has artificial arms and legs again.
(if he was wholly human, it wouldn't be called Full Metal Alchemist now, would it?)

The end of the movie resolves this conflict of their separation but by a sad twist of fate
they're now living in a foreign world. A world without alchemy.
WHY THE HECK DID THEY DO THAT?!?!
Even Ed wonders why he did that!! Why!?!!

Enter the wonderful world of open-ended endings tongue.gif which gives fans something to debate about!
When I finished the series, I couldn't wait to see the movie. It just hooked me!
Sheesh, like, HOW will they get back together again?
HOW? HOW? That just kept circling my head so I just HAD to watch it.

Did i love the movie? Did i hate it? I'm not really sure...I'm in the mixed stage right now.
But I think I'm slowly understanding it. Slowly but surely, as I'm writing this.
And I was also influenced by the posts of The Regal Tigress and yellowduckie. Awesome posts btw.

Back to the question at hand, WHY is this the ending?
Ed and Al in a world without alchemy?!?! Presposterous!

But remember that Ed realized that the alchemy that they've been using in Ametris comes from the life source of the people dying in the "foreign world". Sort of like what they had to do to get the Philosopher's Stone.
By interacting with the people in the "foreign world" he realized that the people are just the same as the people back in Ametris. Same human will, same desire to live, same emotions. Even the people's faces are the same. But the most important factor is that they could survive without the use of alchemy.
Maybe he realized that they've been relying too much in alchemy. Did he still want to go back to Ametris? He could opt to go back and withhold using alchemy. But then there would still be alchemy.
All their life they learned that alchemy can be used to ease life's burdens. But at the expense of the lives of other people? Now, even the people from the "foreign world" wanted to use alchemy to help them win the war. This Thule Organization wanted to draw power from the world of "Shambala". So in effect, they're just draining each other's life sources. Wars erupting because of the unending search for more power. Ed realized this and maybe, subconsciously, he wanted to leave it all behind. To leave all their friends and loved ones behind...

Could that be their sacrifice? You know, the law of equivalent trade. To regain Al's body, all of Al's memories had to be erased and they were separated. So to get back together again, and to make right what they've done wrong, they had to leave their whole world behind. Which just shows that you can never get everything. It reflects how things are in the real world. You can't have your cake and eat it too. smile.gif

In the series, somebody said that
"The world is imperfect. That's the beauty of it."
Or something like that.
That was how the ending is. It's imperfect and therein lies the beauty of it.
I didn't get the ending that I wanted, it was unpredictable.

Towards the end of the series, Ed realized that there are
"things more important than your dreams, than yourself..."
and in the movie he showed this ideal. He was even willing to leave his brother behind just to make everything right. He didn't think of himself or their dreams. He was thinking of others. That's the most important lesson he learned.

In the end, the brothers realized that there's no easy way around anything.
They sought the Philospher's Stone. They obtained it but it only brought on more conflict.
They tried to get back together and that made things even worse.
In the end, they realized that what matters most is that they're together,
that they can take on anything that comes their way. Without the Philosopher's stone. Without alchemy.
After all they have each other. And we have each other. Our families, friends and all the lives that we touch. And all the lives that touch us. We're all in this life together. We might as well help each other.
That's the most important lesson we can learn.

I just wanna say thank you to everybody who made Full Metal Alchemist possible to watch.
It has a great story and a depth to it that only few other anime could rival.
And thank you for reading this post. It's 3 am and I haven't slept yet.
And I have classes tomorrow, I mean, later lol.
I just wanted to get this out of my system. haha
Peace.
O-chibi-san
I thought during the series Edo was becoming fond of his automail. Whenever Al said something like "Oh, we need to restore you first, that automail is tough on you," Ed would always say it was nothing and unimportant.

I think all Ed and Al really wanted was to live together happily. Of course, the open end was to let you imagine your own adventure with Ed and Al in our world, going after the uranium bomb and whatever. Some have said theres going to be another series but I can't really see that happening, and I don't think they ever go back to their own world since we see a 90-year-old Edward living in an apartment in Japan in the OVA entitled "kids."
Dova
The effort and time that we spend in this topic will not change anything. As O-chibi-san said, Ed has already grown to his ultimate stage of oldness and has three grand-children. It means he has never attempted to go back, and the movie gives us a clue that he doesn't have a tiny intention to do that. Ed enters the door so that he can close the door from the other side, and he had to close it before anyone burn up their ambitions again to use the power of "Shambala".

If you are uncomfortable with the way how the FMA ended, it means you are thinking differently from Ed's and Al's definition of their own goal and happiness, and if you are a real FMA fan, you should respect their choices. Even though it wasn't expressed in any of the official series, there goal might have been living calimy, after retrieving their own flesh.

It is just my abnormal and uneducated psycology that you are not really satisfied with how the FMA ended, and I bet one of your reasons is because Ed couldn't be with Winry together. However, Ed is practically with Winry in our world. If you happend to watch OVA: "Kids", one of the grand children of Ed looks exactly like young Winry. I don't know about genetic science, but my common sense tells me that it is pretty dang sure that Ed has found Winry in our world and have married with her. Therefore, you should try to change your mind and be pleased with the ending.
Edamame
I believe that everybody is entitled to their own personal thoughts regarding the ending of the movie and there is not right or wrong way to comprehend the ending. I feel that you draw on some interesting points in your post Searclaw, including the nature of the sacrafice that the brothers have made. I agree that the ending of the movie indeed reflects the very nature of human existence and the world that we live in. Although Edward and Alphonse are finally together once again, they have lost so much at the same time making us wonder whether or not their struggle was truly worth the effort. The Elric brothers learn the true nature of sacrafice in the movie and very nature of their own dreams. As you have remarked, I believe that Edward has come to the realization that their are things that are more important than one's dreams. Edward learns that not all of our dreams can be obtained although we may wish so. I am reminded of the old war veteran that tells Edward that "if your dream comes true, then it never really was a dream." As human beings we desire so many things and will go to no ends to achieve our goals. However at the same time, we have to sacrafice things such as friends and family in order to get ahead in life. Nothing worthwile comes without a pirce.
Although the brothers have lost such much they realise that their greatest gift is one another and Edward remarks that he cannot detach himself from this new world. He has become a part of it now and shares in the same plights and struggles of everybody. The ending reminds me of Hohenheim 's final words at the end of the series: "The world is imperfect, but that is what makes it so beautiful." I still do not know how to interprate these words, but I do believe that their is beauty to be found in this crazy chaos that we live in. That beauty can be found in the love that we show towards one another as the brothers learn in the end of the movie.

Thanks for making an interesting post Searclaw...I'm going to be reflecting on it all day now. laugh.gif
sachiko hyuuchi
whoa yellowduckie you are really talented at writing 0.0 well I suppose I can't because I'm still in middle school *coughcough*

the ending was pretty unexpected 0.0 I thought that it would be like a more "happy" ending -.- yeah what most people want and used to see in anime endings.

Ed and Al were together but they were no longer in Amestris ... and they can't use their alchemy anymore, which is pretty sad and the upcoming WWII thing...

But yeah it does fit what Al said "the world is not perfect and the law (referring to Equivalent Exchange) is incomplete, Equivalent Exchange doesn't encompass everything that goes on here. But I still choose to believe in its principle: that everything do comes with a price. ...etcetc (believe me I memorized the whole lot of what he said lol).

I've just watched it yesterday and like most, is still a bit confused... -.- maybe i'll understand in three to five years? lol =\
Tombow
Wonderful discussion, but...could this discussion be possibly merged to...
"Didn't like the movie ending?" thread which we already have?? smile.gif


ETA: Thanks, Ailuro-san!! happy.gif
Ailuro
Topics merged.
Bluewish
I liked the ending.
I'm happy that Ed and Al are back together that's all that matters to me really!
Amol
Compaired to the searies and what was going on in that and the way it ended i thought that the movie was going to be sad too with a lot of sacrifice and hardship for both of them....

But after looking at the searies i found the ending in the movie preety decent.
Though it was not the "HAPPY ENDING" type ... but it was fine as the brothers were finally togther and Al had his body back. smile.gif !!!

Mustang_93
I thought the ending was ok but it wasn't the ending it was what it symblozed for me. Once i saw Laws and Promises i had one thing on my mind: getting the movie. But when i got it, it was somewhat sad it meant that its over... I usually hate the animes that go on forever but i wish FMA always went on.
Francesco Carter
It wasn't a bad ending at all. I just though it was kinda messed up that this is as far as it goes. No more.
pocketwatch-keeper
yellowduckie, that artivel is really interesting. To be honest I was one of the fangirls who's gut reaction was "nooooo you cant end it like that!" and hadn't even considered the deeper layers beneath (that's what happens when you see yr fav characters split apart hehe)

However after some time has passed I can see the points made here are valid. Yes the brothers are back together, which was the main thread of the whole series end anyways. Yes there are some lovely undertones reflecting on our world today and i applaud the makers for being brave enough to take on such issues in an animated movie, no less. And yes, the tragic air really does suit the FMA style, I even agree with the statement made countless times "It had to end that way." I think in some ways for Ed it did.

Still there was still a lot of the movie that for me was off theme and off character (which im sure i'll ramble about elsewhere) and because of that my whole perception of the ending as clouded. It became just another reflection of the drastic waprings of some characters and such. I dont think Winry would have just let him go like that and I'm not sure Al and Roy would have either. But in the end the movie makers wanted to make the ethical point rather than the character one, and they did that well.

So although it wasn't my perfect ending, they did good on their intentions.

pwKeeper
Mercy_Alchemist94
I didn't hate the ending, but I didn't like it either. I didn't feel that it was saticifing(I know I can't spell! T_T) either, but at the same time it works for me.

I feel terrible for half the cast. Especially Alphonse and Edward... They're stuck in a world that they were not born into, and are so far away from the ones they love but at the same time so very close. But on the other hand, they are together again... Going onto an adventure just like they did in the series.

I can live with the ending... I won't say I hate it or I dislike it because I do not. I'm Ok with it.
esrz22
I don't like the movie ending too much. So, I don't count it in my personal continuity, instead following up directly from episode 51 with Fanstuff. tongue.gif
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