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Nepharski
QUOTE(Guest @ Oct 7 2005, 07:23 PM) [snapback]297184[/snapback]

QUOTE(animefangirl @ Oct 7 2005, 04:12 PM) [snapback]297071[/snapback]

envey true form looks like a frog /snake thingy and since glutany has to die by digesting frogs andd snakes maybe they all got digested


That's what Envy's true form looks like in the anime. In the manga it's a lot more bizarre and disturbing ...

Personally, I think Gluttony is either going to starve to death or go mad and eat himself.

Actually, after reading the recent chapters, I think Gluttony is, how should I put this...innocent. I don't think he knows or even comprehends what he's in the middle of. All he knows is what his brothers and sisters and father tell him. The Father seems, to me, to be a very pragmatic sort of person. If Gluttony is a failed gate, perhaps father is cold or angry towards him, because of the mistake, thus giving Gluttony a void, a void he filled with Lust. All the other Homonuculi seem to treat him more like a pet or dog. He just does what they tell him because that's all he's ever known. He doesn't know what he's doing is wrong.

At least, that's what I think.
Reika
I wonder... if there's a fake gate inside of gluttony.. is there a fake truth too? I don't think so, but it could be, what do you think O.o? It just came to me now
Chibi Viki
QUOTE(MasterKris @ Oct 7 2005, 09:00 PM) [snapback]297030[/snapback]

I get the feeling that the manga won't end that happily... mellow.gif


well... the fact that arakawa has kept MOST of the characters alive says otherwise. besides, from the way her stories go, she's more likely a fan of fun than of angst. in the manga, ed's angsting is kept to a minimal unlike the anime. the characters only show angst when it is necessary but it only lasts for a short time.
Tyoria
Well I suppose now's as good a time as any to introduce myself. Hi, I'm Ty, and I too am dying for the next installment...

My first guess re: Roy was that we'd see him first in a detention cell somewhere and maybe flip to flashback after a while. Whatever happens, if there's any dialogue between him and Wrath I REALLY look forward to it. Roy's been in the army a long time now, and now he has his confirmation that the Fuhrer is in fact a homunculus -- and the higher-ups know it. Set sail for disillusionment? It seemed he still had SOME faith in the military prior to this. And Wrath... we don't have the full measure of him yet. He's sort of caught halfway between a human and a homunculus, and he claims to have been enjoying the competetion Roy and the others provide.

As for Ed/Ling/Envy... anyone else noticing Envy's eyes? His "true form's" main face appears to have multiple irises in the left eye, and the right eye is kind of darked out (the "monster eye"?). I thought that was interesting, especially when we saw Envy's right eye get rather similiarly funky even in human form when Ed punched him (here). Compare his first meeting with Dr. Marcoh ( here), and remember Greed's comments (in 31) about "liking those eyes?" As for the left eye... . I notice that when Envy was fighting Ran Fan she stabbed him in the left eye when he was a dog, and he appeared to revert back instantly (here). Dunno what it means, exactly, except perhaps that Ed and Ling should aim for the eyes... Also envy is sometimes called "the green-eyed monster" and in the Divine Comedy it is purged from your soul in purgatory by having your eyes sewn shut...

I agree with Nepharski on Gluttony's innocence. (I was actually thinking the other sins sort of treated him like a child, sort of a technical "younger brother" although pet works too.) I think he's in much greater danger of being killed by his "own" side than by the good guys at this point.

Can we expect Scar to run in to anyone? I think he'd immediately recognize Hawkeye if they crossed paths since she's shot him TWICE now...
MasterKris
QUOTE
As for Ed/Ling/Envy... anyone else noticing Envy's eyes? His "true form's" main face appears to have multiple irises in the left eye, and the right eye is kind of darked out (the "monster eye"?). I thought that was interesting, especially when we saw Envy's right eye get rather similiarly funky even in human form when Ed punched him (here). Compare his first meeting with Dr. Marcoh ( here), and remember Greed's comments (in 31) about "liking those eyes?" As for the left eye... . I notice that when Envy was fighting Ran Fan she stabbed him in the left eye when he was a dog, and he appeared to revert back instantly (here). Dunno what it means, exactly, except perhaps that Ed and Ling should aim for the eyes... Also envy is sometimes called "the green-eyed monster" and in the Divine Comedy it is purged from your soul in purgatory by having your eyes sewn shut...

SMART! blink.gif
The left eye of Envy... I think Arakawa-sensei won't let Envy die that quickly YET....
Automne
Wow, but that's a good theory! ohmy.gif You're very observant, I didn't even take attention to this before. It might be it. I can't especially see how can Ed freeze Envy to death but Arakawa sensei can surprise us at any moment tongue.gif Also, isn't the green eyed monster Leviathan? I wonder how Ed and Ling are going to get out of here. Certainly 'Father' might do something?
Nepharski
QUOTE(Tyoria @ Oct 8 2005, 10:57 AM) [snapback]297425[/snapback]
As for Ed/Ling/Envy... anyone else noticing Envy's eyes? His "true form's" main face appears to have multiple irises in the left eye, and the right eye is kind of darked out (the "monster eye"?). I thought that was interesting, especially when we saw Envy's right eye get rather similiarly funky even in human form when Ed punched him (here). Compare his first meeting with Dr. Marcoh ( here), and remember Greed's comments (in 31) about "liking those eyes?" As for the left eye... . I notice that when Envy was fighting Ran Fan she stabbed him in the left eye when he was a dog, and he appeared to revert back instantly (here). Dunno what it means, exactly, except perhaps that Ed and Ling should aim for the eyes... Also envy is sometimes called "the green-eyed monster" and in the Divine Comedy it is purged from your soul in purgatory by having your eyes sewn shut...

Observance, thy name is Tyoria.

Very nice. I don't think sewing Envy's eyes shut would him him/her/it, but maybe that would weaken Envy somehow...perhaps the loss of sight would cost him/her/it his/hers/its transformation powers.
Aoko-chan
Tyoria, your theory is super!!!

I never took note of that actually ~.~ Envy's eyes does play an important part doesn't it ?? he he

what if the PStone is in his eye, though I think its improbable
Guest
Wow, I am very impressed by Ty's theory!!
I noticed Envy's eye being drawn like that before, but never put deeper thoughts into it.
I think there's a good chance that Ty nailed it.

And, about Gluttony going to eat himself, that's kind of fitting to their Ouroboros tatoo. happy.gif

Tyoria
Hey, thanks guys. happy.gif I have to admit I like Envy and I find his character rather odd, and thus interesting. So I spend a bit too much time trying to speculate on what exactly is going on in his (her/its/their??) head. I would also like to know why he transformed telling Ed and Ling he'd "show them something good' and then call out for them not to look at him? I'd tell him to make up his mind, but should I refer to minds in the plural?

Actually the "green-eyed monster" doesn't refer to Leviathan, it's just an old phrase referring to the more monstrous qualities of jealousy. Though Leviathan is supposedly the biblical demon that represents Envy...
SweetJanie
Tyoria, it was really nice reading all that, so clever! biggrin.gif (btw, you're name doesn't mean theory, does it? o_O just a random thought...)

QUOTE
I wonder... if there's a fake gate inside of gluttony.. is there a fake truth too? I don't think so, but it could be, what do you think O.o? It just came to me now

For what I could understand from this chapter, Gluttony, as well as all homunculi, are fake gates. Homunculi are the result of a failed experiment of someone (the Father) that wanted to reach The Gate, and, thus, all knowledge. Since homunculi are fakes, failed experiments, they have no Truth in them. Just like a broken link. That's why, where Edo is, it's a void, full of blood, things eaten by gluttony... and endless void... o_O Creepy...

QUOTE
Actually, after reading the recent chapters, I think Gluttony is, how should I put this...innocent. I don't think he knows or even comprehends what he's in the middle of. All he knows is what his brothers and sisters and father tell him. The Father seems, to me, to be a very pragmatic sort of person. If Gluttony is a failed gate, perhaps father is cold or angry towards him, because of the mistake, thus giving Gluttony a void, a void he filled with Lust. All the other Homonuculi seem to treat him more like a pet or dog. He just does what they tell him because that's all he's ever known. He doesn't know what he's doing is wrong.

Even though I agree with the innocent part, I don't agree with Father being angry at Gluttony. He's a failed experiment, just like all of the others, but he's still useful. With the homunculi abilities, it's easier for Father to get what he wants... Such as sacrificies... ^^v


Is it just me that thinks Father considers himself a God? o_O Well, he doesn't die, he controls the homunculi, and they call him 'Father'. Not dad, or father, its Father. Back there I almost typed Him insteda of him... blink.gif Maybe after reaching the Gate, he will become one, who knows...
Nepharski
QUOTE(SweetJanie @ Oct 9 2005, 05:12 AM) [snapback]297743[/snapback]
Even though I agree with the innocent part, I don't agree with Father being angry at Gluttony. He's a failed experiment, just like all of the others, but he's still useful. With the homunculi abilities, it's easier for Father to get what he wants... Such as sacrificies... ^^v


Is it just me that thinks Father considers himself a God? o_O Well, he doesn't die, he controls the homunculi, and they call him 'Father'. Not dad, or father, its Father. Back there I almost typed Him insteda of him... blink.gif Maybe after reaching the Gate, he will become one, who knows...

Where does it say that they're all failed experiments. Seems to me just Gluttony.

And as far as Father's rumored god-complez, see my Supersized PS theory.
Koneko
QUOTE(Tyoria @ Oct 8 2005, 11:57 AM) [snapback]297425[/snapback]

Also envy is sometimes called "the green-eyed monster" and in the Divine Comedy it is purged from your soul in purgatory by having your eyes sewn shut...


But Envy's eyes are purple...
Tyoria
QUOTE
Tyoria, it was really nice reading all that, so clever! biggrin.gif (btw, you're name doesn't mean theory, does it? o_O just a random thought...)


Alas, nothing that clever. It doesn't really mean anything, I just like the sound of it.

QUOTE
For what I could understand from this chapter, Gluttony, as well as all homunculi, are fake gates. Homunculi are the result of a failed experiment of someone (the Father) that wanted to reach The Gate, and, thus, all knowledge. Since homunculi are fakes, failed experiments, they have no Truth in them. Just like a broken link. That's why, where Edo is, it's a void, full of blood, things eaten by gluttony... and endless void... o_O Creepy...


Actually from the way Envy puts it, I think it sounds as though Gluttony's the only failed Gate among the homunculi. But the fact that he'd be referred to as a 'failure' but still be one of the Sins makes me wonder if some of the others might have been 'failures' too -- failures at trying to reach Truth in some other fashion, perhaps?

QUOTE
Even though I agree with the innocent part, I don't agree with Father being angry at Gluttony. He's a failed experiment, just like all of the others, but he's still useful. With the homunculi abilities, it's easier for Father to get what he wants... Such as sacrificies... ^^v


He's kind of a liability though -- not only was he captured, the attempt to 'rescue' him culminated in both Envy and one of the sacrifices getting swallowed. At some point Father (or maybe Pride?) might decide to cut their losses...

QUOTE
Is it just me that thinks Father considers himself a God? o_O Well, he doesn't die, he controls the homunculi, and they call him 'Father'. Not dad, or father, its Father. Back there I almost typed Him insteda of him... blink.gif Maybe after reaching the Gate, he will become one, who knows...


I think it all fits, although... given that 'Father' indulges in human sacrifice and has unleashed on the world his 'children' whom he named after the 7 deadly sins, I wonder if maybe he's more of a 'fallen angel'/Lucifer type.

QUOTE
But Envy's eyes are purple...


True. Though it's only the 'green-eyed monster' since green is the color typically associated with jealousy.
GaluxKitty
Chapter 52 has been leaked!

QUOTE
Spoilers: I could've translated wrong (and trust me that's likely) but are they transferring Riza to Bradley's control? If so... *dies inside*
Satsuka
I've uploaded ch. 52 RAW here:http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2PR606CKB7X852YSR0M200AUVY

^_^

EDIT: Galux Kitty,you beat me. ^_^
Antimony
I saw it!! I got a vague idea of what was going on, but I know I'm going to like it better once I see it in English.Thank you so much for making it available to us!
GS4Life
WTF? I wanna see it, but for whatever reason I just got various porn and Sonic pictures??????????????????? sad.gif *cries*

Seriously thpough that was really weird.
lialiakicks
Holy crap! The Raw is out already?! O_O

SPOILER!


WTF?! Ed just keeps getting eaten... >_> Can Envy die now? XD
Tyoria
Freaking awesome! But... What the hell is going on?!
GS4Life
For whatever reason I can't see it!

*cries* No fair God hates me so much. I wanna see it!
tathchan
@ Satsuka and GaluxKitty: eeeeeeeeeeee, thank you so much!!! 33%... *paces*

@ GS4Life, have you tried both links? Could it be that you don't have WinRar software to open the files? sad.gif

78%!!! laugh.gif

And hey, is it just me, or are these chapter raws coming out earlier and earlier each month??? blink.gif Not that I'm complaining, mind you...

Ack, it's done! WOOT!

ETA: WHAT THE.... That's IT?!?!?!? *wails* Is it November yet??
GS4Life
Shoot I probably don't have WinRar. Shoot that means I'll have to try a different computer tommorrow. Well Thanks anyways, I'd probably be up till 3 in the morning trying to find a way. dry.gif Yes I am that desprate.
GaluxKitty
QUOTE
SPOILERS: All of Roy's subordinates are being transferred to different HQs (except for Riza, who is staying in Central and is to assist Bradley *shudders*) so they can't conspire against Bradley with Roy anymore. As for Roy himself, I don't know what they'll do but I have a hunch they may take him away like they did with Marcoh...

Ed thinks he's found a way out of Gluttony and is actually asking Envy to help... O_o;; I think.

And Al, Mei and Scar have all gone to meet 'Father'.
Reika
Why has been the RAW released SO soon!!! O.o
Tombow
Bowing to Satsuka and GaluxKitty - Thank you!!!

I just got it. Holly cow!!
[spoiler]Bradley is so mean!! His comment about Hughes' funeral is horrible!![/spoiler]

-Momo-
This is angsty looking....I can't wait a month more!!!
Aoko-chan
That's scary if
[spoiler] Roy's subordinates get transfered FROM him *shakes* and especially if Riza into Bradley's division *shudders*[/spoiler]

WAHHHHHHH WE HAVE TO WAIT TILL NOVEMBER TO GET THE NEW CHAPPY 53!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *pouts*

/off topic/ by the way, GaluxKitty, where did you get your avatar? I Love it ^^/off topic/
Guest
I read the manga on msn so I'm good.


spoilers
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Riza and co's transfer cannot spell good(kind of ionic huh about my first sentence ya know? Never mind....). I doubt Envy will make it past chapter 53 so yeah, sorry Envy fanboys/fangirls. Even so Mei and Ling still may die. If Envy doesn't kill Ling then Pride may. I doubt Hoenheim will get off his lazy ass to fight, but you never know. Since Bradley has control of Mustangs group, then that not only means it's bad for them but...........it..............means...................GAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get Ran Fan and that doctor guy over to Rush Valley, Pronto! Seeing Winry again will be nice, but most importantly get Ran Fan away from Bradley, far far away. Hopefully Ed,Al,Ling,Mei, and Scar won't be stupid enough fight each other. Ooooooooo Ling's new sword is pretty cool and we got to see the return of Ed's uber cool automail sword. Can't wait till chapter 53(yeah that seems to happen a lot ya know I just finish reading one chapter and I wanna see the next so badly, but it's a month away and.......Never Mind....)
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GS4Life
oops forgot my name^ though I think everyone who read the Ran Fan part would have figured it out anyways. Yeah i'm just like that, worrying outside the box. tongue.gif
MasterKris
ARG!!
My stupid computer is slow!! It's not showing some pages and ME WANT TRANSLATIONS!!!!!
Guest
For those of you having trouble:

I found the translation here. And the raw is up at the FMA MSN group. happy.gif It's amazing what you can find with a little searching.
Automne
Ow thank you so much Guest! happy.gif
It's going to help me alot when the download is over! (Thanks to the one who posted this! I <3 you! happy.gif;;)
Oh my god, Ed is asking Envy to...I just hope he says yes! XD (Yeah I know it's impossible...)
Tyoria
HOLY JESUS YES.

AWESOME.

[spoiler]Ah, well, it appears I'm batting a zero these days prediction-wise. Oh well.

So, is Envy a chimera? How did he ever manage to come across as even slightly sane when in human form if he has all those conflicted people inside of him?[/spoiler]
Guest
I just finished reading a translation and everything makes a lot more sense now. If I only knew how to make spoiler tags so I could rave, rant, and speculate to my heart's content!
Antimony
QUOTE(Guest @ Oct 10 2005, 03:53 PM) [snapback]298246[/snapback]

I just finished reading a translation and everything makes a lot more sense now. If I only knew how to make spoiler tags so I could rave, rant, and speculate to my heart's content!


Arrgh, that was me. I forgot to log in again ... rolleyes.gif
Automne
Antimony: [ spoiler ] your spoiler [ /spoiler ] Just get rid of the spaces! happy.gif
Blitz
*drools* I wuv Hagaren. rolleyes.gif
Antimony
QUOTE(SinLuxuria @ Oct 10 2005, 03:57 PM) [snapback]298248[/snapback]

Antimony: [ spoiler ] your spoiler [ /spoiler ] Just get rid of the spaces! happy.gif


Thanks, Sin! Brace yourselves for some big time spoilers now, folks!!!

[spoiler] A new layer of conspiracy is revealed! Father and his children have been skillfully pulling the strings behind the government of Amestris for years! This whole thing with Wrath and the military was planned for a long time and the higher-ups discuss the human sacrifices for opening The Doors, specifically the Elric brothers. Now that Mustang knows the truth about the military they'll be wanting to keep him quiet, but I doubt they'll kill him because of his value as a sacrifice. Chances are he'll end up like Marcoh locked away somewhere but he's not one to just sit there and do nothing. Looking back at Ch. 40, I see that it was Wrath's plan all along to break up Mustang and his crew. Now we see that it's actually going to happen.

It's very interesting that all of the characters from Xing can sense such things as homunculi and chimeras. Heck, even the panda can do it!!It seems like they can detect anything 'evil' or 'abnormal' much better then the Amestrian people can, probably because of martial arts training, or they haven't been lulled into the same state of complaceny by an evil mastermind hiding right under their noses. Either way it's bound to keep causing problems for the bad guys. Notice how Ling was not deluded by Envy's "victims" the way Ed was. He was able to fight him without being fooled by the wailing and cries for help. (Brrrr, freaky scenes there ....)

Speaking of Ed, he kept seeing flashbacks of the array he saw at the Xerxes ruins. Part of that same ruin appears to be inside of Gluttony's void, and Ed has made a connection between them. What does this have to do with his escape plan? I'll have to check back to that time when he first saw the ruins for clues.[/spoiler]
Reika
I'm just puzzled at this chap, it's extremely greatly drawn and it was even released 2 days before the release date... and so much cliffhangers!! >.<

[spoiler] I want to know Roy's reaction after hearing about riza!! He's just "What the hell?!!! she's going to be under your command?????!!!!!" [/spoiler]
Antimony
More spoilers! I'm on a roll today!

[spoiler] The circle Ed saw in Gluttony's void and at the Xerxes ruins also appears in the 5th Lab, although it looks slightly different. The best explanation I can think of for the one in Gluttony's gut is that he ate the missing part of the Xerxes one all those centuries ago. Gosh, he's older then I thought! But there's still no explanation for what the circle means yet! [/spoiler]
Tyoria
[spoiler] Antimony, it's interesting that you'd attribute Ling's reaction to the 'victims' inside Envy to his being from Xing... since, to be honest, my reading of that was that it's actually Ed and not Ling who's really correct in interpretation. As the scene cuts to Envy we have Gluttony remind us that it was 'Father' who created them all, and just after we leave the scene we have Scar mention chimeras as "sad creatures born from alchemy." What if they really WERE victims? Some of the voices beg for death in much the same way we're told Tucker's wife did after she was made into a chimera. Some are children, some are adults, some want to live, some want to die, most are hopelessly insane or despairing from being merged together with so many other beings in a hideous conglomeration. It forces the spotlight on the kind of person who would make that kind of creature -- "Father" makes Tucker look positively benign. [/spoiler]
Dark_Fishie
NO!!!!!!!!!!!! I just lost all my rambles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! T.T

[SPOILER]Ehm, lets try again... Bradley's probably gonna use Riza to keep Roy quiet. Riza! T.T... Hoho can be disturbing - "Those boys have grown up so well" and "We'll meet again, because we're alchemists". What if he planned from beginning for them to be "sacrifices" and hoped for Ed and Al to study alchemy in the first place? He would be referring to their developement into becoming "sacrifices," no??? *shudders*

And why would he have a picture of the Xerxes array in his workroom? Would really appreciate it if somebody can find the picture. The top left sun of the Xerxes array is missing its face, and the top of one of the stone blocks has half the face of the sun. If somebody has better copies of the pages, we might be able to tell what the writing around the array says. ^o^

Also, if someone as the RAW to chapter 40, can they check whether a lot of people introduced alchemy to Xing, or only one person did. Cuz the readmanga translation has it as singular while the msngroup translation is plurial. If it is singular... Then Father might be the person that introduced alchemy to Xing and Amestris. That means he really did plan the fate of the country from the beginning... Wow... *shudders* Aahhh, need to borrow my friend's Perfect Guide 2 to check the timelines. From Gluttony's stomach contents, it seems that the Homunculi were around when Xerxes fell. It seems likely that they were involved in it. Also - would all the other old artifacts in Gluttony from Xerxes? A very good place to perserve old things eh? XD

Oh yeah, about Envy - I think he's a failed gate too - notice how the arms that grabbed Ed were almost exactly like the arms in the gate? What if that was Father's attempt at creating the "entrance fee" of the gate? And how does he know so much? Maybe both Envy and Gluttony were both byproducts that failure??? Darn, really need that PG2. T.T And I don't think the "heads" are chimeras but "reflections" of all the human transmutations. CsakuraS translated some of their dialogue as "...play", "mother", "mama", "I want to die", "Give me back my child", and "brother". Those phrases can be pointed back to Nina, Ed, Al, Nina's mom, Izumi, and Al. Why would the heads say those things? I'm cold...*shivers*

One last thing, I think. When Ed saw a connection between the PS, the array in Xerxes, and the fragments in Gluttony's stomach, his pupil flashed. The same thing happened when Ranfan and Ling realized that the Homunculi were the answers to their "immortal" question. Does it happen often?[/spoiler]
*Phew* I think that's everything... Sorry of the longness of my ramble!
Cough, one more thing, [Spoiler]Antimony, I think the reason that Ling and Mei-chan and Xiaomei could sense Homunculi and chimeras was because they could feel that their "flow" was different. Don't remember which chapter, but I think that it was mentioned somewhere... I also think that's why they felt uneasy in Amestris - they could feel that there's something wrong with the country. Please correct me if I'm wrong. ^^[/spoiler]
GaluxKitty
@ Tyoria: You have a very interesting point.

QUOTE
Ed DID hear Nine mixed in with all the other beings; she just kept saying "Big brother, wanna play?" and all this sort of stuff. That was definitely the voice that affected him the most.

And with the Xing people being more savvy with the evil... I don't know; Ling not being affected at all and Mei seriously freaking out are two pretty big extremes...


QUOTE(Aoko-chan @ Oct 10 2005, 11:17 PM) [snapback]298092[/snapback]

/off topic/ by the way, GaluxKitty, where did you get your avatar? I Love it ^^/off topic/


I made it! happy.gif

The pic is from Riza's Japanese TCG card
Nepharski
Okay...Envy is starting to freak me out here.

Going with the gate and entrance fee idea, I wonder what purposes the other Homonuculi serve. Bradley, of course, is to keep the country in line, but what of the rest? Hmm...

Gluttony seems eager to please Father ("Will it make him happy?"), so I think there is an emotional rift between the two, which Gluttony is trying to over come.

Can't believe we have to wait another month.
MasterKris
We are thinking a lot around here, are we?

When we wait for a month for one chapter, it seems hopeless... WHY?!!
Tyoria
GaluxKitty: hmm..

[spoiler] I'm relying solely on Csakuras' translation since I can't read any Japanese at all, so I might be confused. But was the voice actually Nina or did it remind Ed of Nina because it said "let's play?" I guess I'm just confused as to how/why Nina would end up in there after Scar had already killed her, and Ed doesn't seem to react as though he thought she was literally in there somewhere (wouldn't he have called out to her?). I just thought Ed's reaction might have been horror because he was realizing that the people inside 'Envy' were going through the same thing as Nina? [/spoiler]

Nepharski:

[spoiler] Check out the titles they give each other. Envy calls Gluttony a "failed Gate" and I think this is the only time we're given any indication of what purpose Gluttony was created for. We've had the "ultimate shield" and the "ultimate lance", Bradley's got the "ultimate eye" and he's also "created to serve the last purpose," and Envy's "Monster Envy." "Father's" ultimate soldiers perhaps? But no idea as to what Pride and Sloth were created to do.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a rift between Father and Gluttony... but he might genuinely want to please the guy too. Not that I'd blame him if he were worried too... considering what Father did to Greed for ditching him and to Sloth for... um, whatever Sloth did to warrant being chained up and forced to work until his hands bleed... [/spoiler]

anyway...

[spoiler] How deep in this are the military brass? They're talking about "electing" the sacrifice candidates -- do they have Father over for tea, too? Are they after having the Gates opened for themselves as well? [/spoiler]
GaluxKitty
QUOTE(Tyoria @ Oct 11 2005, 10:51 AM) [snapback]298374[/snapback]

GaluxKitty: hmm..

[spoiler] I'm relying solely on Csakuras' translation since I can't read any Japanese at all, so I might be confused. But was the voice actually Nina or did it remind Ed of Nina because it said "let's play?" I guess I'm just confused as to how/why Nina would end up in there after Scar had already killed her, and Ed doesn't seem to react as though he thought she was literally in there somewhere (wouldn't he have called out to her?). I just thought Ed's reaction might have been horror because he was realizing that the people inside 'Envy' were going through the same thing as Nina? [/spoiler]



[spoiler]I can read Japanese, and the way that it spoke was very similar to the way Nina did; very childish. Mabe it wasn't Nina, but it as certainly very similar to her.[/spoiler]
Sensenic
YO, people!

SCANLATION'S OUT \(n_n)/ { yaaaay!
QUOTE(GaluxKitty @ Oct 11 2005, 06:17 AM) [snapback]298451[/snapback]

QUOTE(Tyoria @ Oct 11 2005, 10:51 AM) [snapback]298374[/snapback]

GaluxKitty: hmm..

[spoiler] I'm relying solely on Csakuras' translation since I can't read any Japanese at all, so I might be confused. But was the voice actually Nina or did it remind Ed of Nina because it said "let's play?" I guess I'm just confused as to how/why Nina would end up in there after Scar had already killed her, and Ed doesn't seem to react as though he thought she was literally in there somewhere (wouldn't he have called out to her?). I just thought Ed's reaction might have been horror because he was realizing that the people inside 'Envy' were going through the same thing as Nina? [/spoiler]



[spoiler]I can read Japanese, and the way that it spoke was very similar to the way Nina did; very childish. Mabe it wasn't Nina, but it as certainly very similar to her.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]At first I thought the same, but it can't be Nina. Envy was made faaaar before Nina was even born. Indeed all those children just reminded Ed of Nina.[/spoiler]
Sensenic
More on detail discussion. Yay!

BTW, I won't use spoiler tags any more. This thread is called chapter 52 for a reason, after all happy.gifU
QUOTE(Tyoria @ Oct 10 2005, 07:46 PM) [snapback]298169[/snapback]

[spoiler]Ah, well, it appears I'm batting a zero these days prediction-wise. Oh well.

So, is Envy a chimera? How did he ever manage to come across as even slightly sane when in human form if he has all those conflicted people inside of him?[/spoiler]

No he's not. He's an hommunculus plain and simple. The difference seems to lie in the fact that, while in the other homunculi the people in the stone were/are dead, merged and used as mere regeneration and power source, in Envy they, their souls were kept somehow individual and alive. Or whatever... As how did he manage... there's this thing about him calling himself "kono Envy" (this Envy) instead of I or similar that we discussed elsewhere... To me, a main personality, with a preferred form, was "born" from them and became the Envy we know, but he was perfectly aware that he was many a people, that's why talking about himself in that fashion.
QUOTE(Antimony @ Oct 10 2005, 10:58 PM) [snapback]298262[/snapback]

[spoiler]It's very interesting that all of the characters from Xing can sense such things as homunculi and chimeras. Heck, even the panda can do it!!It seems like they can detect anything 'evil' or 'abnormal' much better then the Amestrian people can, probably because of martial arts training, or they haven't been lulled into the same state of complaceny by an evil mastermind hiding right under their noses. Either way it's bound to keep causing problems for the bad guys. Notice how Ling was not deluded by Envy's "victims" the way Ed was. He was able to fight him without being fooled by the wailing and cries for help. (Brrrr, freaky scenes there ....) [/spoiler]

Rather than feeling "evilness", they said they feel your standard 'ki', lifeforce/whatsoever. In the case of Homunculi and chimeras, they just detect that there's more than one person (or living thing, in the case of chimeras) inside one body. And as for Father and the country itself... go figure \(happy.gif)/

And, yeah, freaky scenes indeed (;šAš)
QUOTE(Antimony @ Oct 10 2005, 10:58 PM) [snapback]298262[/snapback]

[spoiler]Speaking of Ed, he kept seeing flashbacks of the array he saw at the Xerxes ruins. Part of that same ruin appears to be inside of Gluttony's void, and Ed has made a connection between them. What does this have to do with his escape plan? I'll have to check back to that time when he first saw the ruins for clues.[/spoiler]

Aaahh... That's most intriguing. But seeing this. I'm afraid they will come out thanks to Ed's genius instead of Father's intervention (I mean, Ed's the main chara, and seeing other things that happened before, it's quite safe to think it'll be this way, no?).

As for Xerxes ruins... now I'm really amazed by that. Till now I thought those were pieces of Ishval, since Gluttony was alive by then... And it's true that Gluttony has been present in some massacre (see his question to Lust, back at Lior: "Lots of people going to die again?". And, of course, "can I eat them?" happy.gif)... When Xerxes fell, he wasn't yet born/made... At least, according to PG2's chronology. So... what's Xerxes doing inside of Gluttony?
QUOTE(Tyoria @ Oct 10 2005, 11:42 PM) [snapback]298286[/snapback]

[spoiler] Antimony, it's interesting that you'd attribute Ling's reaction to the 'victims' inside Envy to his being from Xing... since, to be honest, my reading of that was that it's actually Ed and not Ling who's really correct in interpretation. As the scene cuts to Envy we have Gluttony remind us that it was 'Father' who created them all, and just after we leave the scene we have Scar mention chimeras as "sad creatures born from alchemy." What if they really WERE victims? Some of the voices beg for death in much the same way we're told Tucker's wife did after she was made into a chimera. Some are children, some are adults, some want to live, some want to die, most are hopelessly insane or despairing from being merged together with so many other beings in a hideous conglomeration. It forces the spotlight on the kind of person who would make that kind of creature -- "Father" makes Tucker look positively benign. [/spoiler]

They WERE victims indeed. They are the human lives needed for the Philosopher's Stone, that are somehow still alive/conscious, but, of course, completely desperate/mad.

As for Ling, I think he knew they were people too. Heck, he can feel them. I say that when he was telling Ed that it was a monster, he was also actually telling to himself, in order to keep a clear conscience (you know, as in: "he's an evil monster, I'm fighting a monster, I am not killing innocent people.") so, unlike Ed, he can keep the mind clear and not die to Envy. He probably knows too (Ed too probably), that they cannot be saved any longer and that they are indeed better dead than suffering that much.

My 2 cents.
QUOTE(Dark_Fishie @ Oct 11 2005, 01:22 AM) [snapback]298329[/snapback]

[SPOILER]
And why would he have a picture of the Xerxes array in his workroom? Would really appreciate it if somebody can find the picture. The top left sun of the Xerxes array is missing its face, and the top of one of the stone blocks has half the face of the sun. If somebody has better copies of the pages, we might be able to tell what the writing around the array says. ^o^[/spoiler]

I posted the picture of that poster in Hoho's room in the FMA Manga Analysis thread, which is back there in page 2. smile.gif
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