It's reply time![quote name='Tyoria' date='Oct 13 2005, 12:50 AM' post='299218']
Sensenic, one more reply. I'm also laughing at your sig, btw, that's hilarious!
[quote]No he's not. He's an hommunculus plain and simple. The difference seems to lie in the fact that, while in the other homunculi the people in the stone were/are dead, merged and used as mere regeneration and power source, in Envy they, their souls were kept somehow individual and alive. Or whatever... [/quote]
Possibly not a literal chimera then. But it did seem that the series was trying to make a comparison to chimeras specifically -- Ed thinking of Nina, Scar's mention of them being "creatures born from alchemy," plus the voices saying things we've seen the other chimeras in the series say -- "I want to die" (like Nina's mom), "let's play" (like Nina) and "I want to live" (like the chimeras in Greed's gang). One big difference in this case is that the people fused together were ALL human, and all done to create a Philosopher's Stone, so they might not be literal chimeras, but I think some of the idea is the same...[/quote]
Well, indeed some of the idea is the same: both homunculi and chimera are artificial, human-made through alchemy, living beings. They're both results of human beings (alchemists) playing God, as Ed in the first chapters might've put it. As a matter of fact, yesterday I noticed both words ('hommunculus' and 'chimera', or at least 'human chimera') have the same last two kanjis, those of 'person' and 'between' -> "ningen" -> human.
The main difference is, chimeras are made from mixing two or more living beings into one, and that determines the outcome, whereas hommunculi are made creating a body around PS, which was made from human beings too, true, but since you create the body, I believe that you can make, or even 'program' the final result as you want it to be to a certain degree (I mean, make Greed greedy and Gluttony... glutty? o_O by giving them that part of the soul, etc.). And, of course, there's the obvious difference that hommunculi are way more powerful, they're more hi-tech.[quote name='Tyoria' date='Oct 13 2005, 12:50 AM' post='299218']
[quote]As how did he manage... there's this thing about him calling himself "kono Envy" (this Envy) instead of I or similar that we discussed elsewhere... To me, a main personality, with a preferred form, was "born" from them and became the Envy we know, but he was perfectly aware that he was many a people, that's why talking about himself in that fashion.[/quote]
The reason I'd think he'd have some difficulty is that the voices don't seem to be agreeing with each other on much. Not just age and gender... some are asking to die, and some are saying they still want to live, and some are saying something else entirely. If his personality is composed of all of them together -- which is what he seems to be indicating by calling himself "this Envy -- wouldn't such conflicting desires create some degree of internal confusion? [/quote]
Oh, I did reply to that, but I explain myself so poorly...
U Let's see... What I meant to say is that you are probably right, there was conflict within Envy, as he is many, and there is, as it shows. But, from what we've seen, this conflict must've been solved, or stabilized to a certain degree, at some point, when a defined personality, that of the Envy we all know and love/hate
, "kono Envy", rised predominant.
Maybe it's the "soul bit" Father gave him, that ruled over the others, or maybe it's another personality that grew up by itself. That, go figure.[quote name='Tyoria' date='Oct 13 2005, 12:50 AM' post='299218']
[quote]As for Ling, I think he knew they were people too. Heck, he can feel them. I say that when he was telling Ed that it was a monster, he was also actually telling to himself, in order to keep a clear conscience (you know, as in: "he's an evil monster, I'm fighting a monster, I am not killing innocent people.") so, unlike Ed, he can keep the mind clear and not die to Envy. [/quote]
I wouldn't necessarily look down on Ling if he just thought it was a trick Envy was trying to pull -- since one of Envy's attempts to be emotionally manipulative is the reason they're all stuck there in the first place -- though your suggestion sounds quite plausible too.
[quote]He probably knows too (Ed too probably), that they cannot be saved any longer and that they are indeed better dead than suffering that much.[/quote]
That's possible too. Though it's kind of the same problem as with Nina. There wasn't any way to change her back, but she hardly asked for Scar to kill her, and not all the voices are asking for death. Some are, and some are specifically saying they DON'T want to die.
Well, must I say I wasn't blaming/looking down on Ling at all. It's completely understandable that, in order to survive, Ling kills the "people", knowing that Envy is using (I know he/she/it
is) to trick them both.
As for the "better dead than suffering" part, let's just say that in "real life" I'm completely opposed to death, death penalty and the likes. I agree on euthanasia tho' if and only if the person is 100% conscious and aware and wants it, if s/he's really suffering and there's no mid, long term solution. But that's off-topic, just excusing myself for saying so. I said it, tho', because it's a common line of thought in this kind of dramatic stories (I'm reading Dracula
right now, and there's a part where the main character thinks so: "she's better dead" etc.), and I think it's the one Ling is following, again, to keep a clear conscience. The fact some of the Envy-people are asking to be saved (I probably would be one of those, was I in that situation. Don't even wanna think about it...
) doesn't mean they can... and then this logic (kind of) applies -> "better dead than uselessly suffering anymore". Those are intended to be sad/tragic characters indeed, just like Nina. [quote name='GaluxKitty' date='Oct 14 2005, 01:22 AM' post='299828']
[quote post='299794' date='Oct 14 2005, 08:17 AM' name='GS4Life']
... where in the Blue Blazes is Armstrong?
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M WONDERING. Seriously, while all this crazy stuff is going on he's sitting back and relaxing?
[quote name='sai-chan' date='Oct 14 2005, 01:36 AM' post='299836']
I'm thinking Armstrong is gonna be the one to render Roy of his dead end =o Since his crew got separated, who else in the military could help him now?! D:
[quote name='GS4Life' date='Oct 14 2005, 02:00 AM' post='299848']
Yeah we so need Armstrong to bust into the military headquarters and shout "This method of busting down big heavy doors saving Roy and Riza's asses has been passed down the Armstrong family line for generations". Then he could go over and pick up Ed, Ling, and Ran Fan and shout "This method of making sure Ed, Ling, and Ran Fan get the medical attention that they need and getting them to saftey has also been passed down the Armstrong Family line for generations."The Homonculi and Father would be all like WTF and Al would be like and all would be well.
Well, he isn't there because as Mei stated in this chapter... It has been only 2 days! ever since the Elrics started luring Scar out (it did surprise me a lot to read Mei's line "That armor from yesterday
since it's been MONTHS of cliffhangerness to us
), and the thing has been kept under utmost secrecy, both by the military (out of interest) and Mustang crew (out of worriness)... Fury himself knew nothing of all of this. So it's logic the news hasn't reached the Major, no?
As for what he'll do in the future... yesterday while going back home it occured to me... Wrath and Father "took care" of Greed, Roy "took care" of Lust... Seems Envy will be Ed's "job" (well, not that much now, but still...), etc.
So, on the other hand, who put up a more than decent fight against the big muscle guy -somewhat- Scar and made him decide to retire? Who was the only one who could "confront" Sig Curtis in order to get to see Izumi -ehem
U-? Who was the one who beat yet another "Big Guy" Roa and didn't kill him just because was such a good person?
See where I'm going?
And now... Given how much Arakawa sensei and her crew love Armstrong, that meaning he'll much probably get more stellar moments, and one could be "taking care" of an hommunculus... And which is the big-muscled hommunculus who looks like his main power might be "Ultimate Punch/Strength"?
That's my bet: Armstrong will be the one to beat/kill Sloth.[/spoiler]
Time will tell.[quote name='sai-chan' date='Oct 14 2005, 01:36 AM' post='299836']
[quote post='299279' date='Oct 12 2005, 10:11 PM' name='carla']
buraha = black hayate. liza's dog? it's a play on the japanese pronunciation, "buraku hayate." just like "hagane no renkinjutsushi" gets reduced to "hagaren"
[quote post='299058' date='Oct 12 2005, 02:14 PM' name='Sensenic']And, BTW, what's with the hate for poor Mei Chan/g, ppl? She's just like Ling, bad ass and funny: her way-too-biased imagination is just hilarious ("something small that was there" If Ed knew... And if she knew...). Come on, not everything has to be fighting and angst. Or Royai or Edwin, for that matter.[/quote]
ah, it's not that i hate her! that came out wrong in fact i quite like that girl. she's funny and cute and hyper, how can i not like that? it just irks me that we're not only in a dramatic moment, but in THE dramatic moment, and we're cut halfway through... to go to a mei-chan scene. lol. leave me hanging why dont'cha? haha. but when it's time to be silly and hyper and cute, i'm all for mei-chan, really nothing personal against her. and it's not even that she's only comedic relief, she can be angsty too... when there's a point! nothing to do with a preferred genre or pairing for that matter...
Ahh thanks xD I forgot his full name is Black Hayate xD I just call him Hayate >_>
It's not that I hate Mei-chan either, especially cos she's so freaking cute xD It's a really really nice comic relief for the chapters (<3 cutesy everywhere)... But carla took the words outta my mouth : leave me hangin' dont'cha!! >_< But all is forgiven when it comes to FMA, I just wanted the thrill to be kept at the same rate all over the chapter ;o;
And I liked the big armored monster over the small thing in the back xD Man is Mei-chan getting dissapointed when she finds out who that small thing is ._.''
Ans Sensenic, the fact that Marcoh was indeed a HS candidate slipped my mind, but isn't he still being used solely for the creation of more personnel?[/quote]
Oh, I wasn't refering to none of you for that matter, I just read a couple of posts of Mei Chan scene bashing and surprised me.
And I understand you, but I'm afraid that's the usual rythm FMA follows... I mean, it's not the first time the action is cut at a cliffhanger to move onto another, calmer scene. You should know... \
As for Marco... well, he was being kept alive and watched, after Lust found him, because he was a HSC, and indeed he was taken by Envy when he was needed, we assume that in order to make "reinforcements" for Daddy. One thing doesn't deny/change the other.
Arff... that was tiresome. But I love it when things are lively. Yay!
EDIT: Why quoting won't work?! dammit! Well, if it won't work, maybe coloring will