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Full Version: Do You Hate What Bones Did To Fma(manga) By Making Fma Anime (first Series)? Spoiler Warning For All Fma Series!
Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > Fullmetal Alchemist Discussions > Fullmetal Alchemist Anime (FMA-1) > Original Japanese episodes (with sub)
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Evan_Unisil
That was the point. You claim to understand the meaning behind my post but clearly none of you are. I thought The Island gave it away. TheVileOne seems to understand what is going on here though.

How funny it would be if the manga went in the direction of the anime. You are probably the kind of people who would say "Donnie Darko" has a major plothole in that they never come right out and explain to you what is going on. What about Cowboy Bebop? SPOILER:

Did Spike die?!?! Major plot hole, they never explained whether he did or not, they left it up to the viewer. Even now stupid people still fight over whether he died or not.

Full Metal Alchemist was a great anime. And I'm glad you changed the title to "Do You Hate What Bones Did To FMA?" because Bones is one of the greatest studios making anime right now.
Dai
ok, I'll just say

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I really has nothing more to say, I really think all your post is almost offtopic XD we are talking about fails, we are not talking about things anime don't finish so we can imagine it ^^

really, I think you should read what Reika wrote in that pdf, all the fails are explained in detail
Reika
1)You are saying exactly the same TheVileOne said before but with another nick, even the examples are the same.

2)The one that doesn't understand the posts is you. And by questioning our thoughts in other movies/animes, just proves that you are the one that doesn't understand what's being discussed in here, nor our posts. I'll tell you the same I told TheVileOne not long ago that it seems you didn't unsterdand or even read: How the hell are you proving you are right about what you say about FMA with examples of another movies???? That proves:
1)You are not Jerry Bruckheimer even if you've dreamt about it.
2)that you can't actually discuss things giving a real cinema critique opinion.

3)If you want to discuss what I think Donnie Darko is, tell me a forum where we can talk about that, and not in FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST. (Is it something contagious? Because both of you talk exactly the same way, stating the same examples, etc. Because if it is, I'm going out of this forum right now).

4)The manga for first instance isn't going to follow the same path since:
1)The homunculus aren't created the same way
2)It doesn't resort to secondary characters in order to continue with the plot and story. (And don't even try to do as TheVileOne and compare Ling and Ran Fang with Flecther and his brother. While the Xing characters have obviously a deep plot and story behind their backs, which is connected with the inmortality, they've even made alliances with the military (Roy to be more specific) and Ling is the heir of Xing which is going to lead to more plot deepeners in the future, Fletcher and his brother were after the dream of their father and appeared in the last episodes just in the very right moment so Ed could find the homunculus lair without anykind of trouble, saving time, plot, animation, money etc. and rushing the ending)
3)The bad guy who controls everything is not Dante (nor is some girl invented by the anime in the first episodes that suddenly appears at the ending and is transformed into the bad girl when Dante transfers her soul into her body)
4)There's NO such unanswered questions as to be able to make 30 pages (even if some can be answered, they are still too much).
5)There's NO filling of rushing, nor trying to fit something that was the beggining into 51 episodes (52 with the movie).
6)The producer of the anime read the first volume and in the 2nd they were already making the anime, when every chapter is mensual. That proves how different can be the plot since there's 99% of chance that the manga has a much deeper plot and storyline, since it's clearly more worked. And I remind you that we are not in a discussion about which is better, the manga or the anime, so don't start a discussion from this.
7)After so much volumes and chapters since the anime separated from the manga is more than clear that it's not going to be the same by any chance.
8)Arakawa herself said "You are the ones releasing this, not me" <-- she has obviously no intentions of making it like the anime. Also, when the anime ended she said "*sigh* Finally it ended. Now I'll be able to go to europe and look for information, at last".

5)Most of the Unanswered Questions of the pdf file, which you obviously haven't read ( Because:1.-You are discussing minor details with us instead of the big ones that appear reaching the ending (Just like TheVileOne), oh, I forgot, they sound all the same for both of you so you can discuss even the most minor of them, right?)2.-you keep saying I say that everthing bones did are plotholes 3.-I stated there I don't care one bit if they change things as long as they do it making sense. In fact, I like it because that makes more FMA for us) are concerning to the anime and not to the adaptation made from the manga. And as I already stated in the document, unless someone proves, with real proves based on statements and/or articles on the anime and NOT personal opinions or conclussions, the 80% of what I stated there can be given a real satisfying answer and not a simple "no, because Scar is very cool and that's that" or "I know more than you, so you shut up" (because except from Keos, the reasons stated here where like that, without even checking for the episode in question (oh, yeah, I forgot it too, you don't need to check for it because you don't care and you know you are right. But still you make such a fuss about it and we still can discuss them.), I will still think it's not a great anime, which is what I said from the start. And as I also said from the start, in spite which are our careers, which were stated after a certain two people tried to sound bigger than us and insulted us, THAT IS MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION, AND THE REASONS ARE STATED IN THAT DOCUMENT WHERE ANYONE CAN FREELY DISCUSS THEM AS LONG AS THEY DO IT PROPPERLY, RESPECTING PEOPLE, GIVING REAL ARGUMENTS, NOT INSULTING, AND HAVING FUN WITH IT. <-- Another thing both of you DON'T UNDERSTAND. If you really are who you say you are, you should already know that, after all, you've lived long enough to know some things, haven't you?

--EDIT--------
Heh, but of course, the fact that you are him is rather really doubtfull:
1)You appeared two weeks after TheVileOne almost didn't get online, just when he made his "reappearance" with more insults and full days of active participation at trying to show how stupid we are, which makes it too suspicious.
2)You said you produced something you didn't and your answer was "I thought The Island gave it away"
3)Man, both of your timing zone are really doubtfull. TheVileOne says he's from Texas, but his timing zone is the one from England. You say that you are Jerry Bruckheimer, who, for your information, is in the Bahamas, and your timing zone is the one from Texas (or Utah <--or however that's spelled).
4)You have 4 posts in total, if you think this is such a great anime is rather surprising that you posted 3 of the 4 posts in this thread, deffending TheVileOne and saying how superior you are.
5)The only post outside this topic was in the "FMA movie raw" post where you asked for the film but didn't give your e-mail address so it would be sent to you.
6) Jerry Bruckheimer is a currently really busy 60 year old man, who has better things to do than come here to say how stupid all of us are and how great he and TheVileOne are.

And you still spect us to believe you.
-------EDIT--------

6)You aren't the only ones that think the anime is great, so there's no need to have such favouritism towards only one that says it's great, specially when he does it with insults and very low respect towards others. All the others who think it is great, don't even care about the document, or have discussed what is written on it have been respected, do you know why? If both of you have the age you are trying to demonstrate you have, and are as mature as you think and try to show you are, you'll know and understand why.

7)In the 90% of the cases you've not argued about the topic nor the posts, but instead of that you stated how right you are because you are MUCH superior than us, TheVileOne even insulted us, and you've tried to pass your opinion down our throats, making this topic some battlefield where it can be discussed who is more God than the others rather than somewhere to state your opinion with respect (that is precisely how the forums should work (and I've already said this, but this is some other thing you just can't understand)). <-- That is how my 12 year old brother acts when he can't discuss or argument something.

Really, this is the last thing I say about this. Any other post about how superior both of you are and how right you are because of that and it will be ignored because it's OFFTOPIC and doesn't prove ANYTHING.
Dai
*clap clap clap clap clap clap clap* ^^

(see? I'm clapping with my hands, not with my fist or my feet XD)

you know what am I going to do? I'm going to ignore them even if they are talking about the topic, I really don't want to discuss things with that kind of people who have prove they are not the kind of people who should be in a forum.

I'm sure you'll say now that I'm doing this so I have not to face (your) reality so I don't have to see we are wrong... but you know? I don't mind ^^ because the only thing I want to prove at this forum is that I'm a person which is able to disscuss here without saying lies or insulting people... not like you.
Guest
Ok, I have an answer for all the previously unanswered questions about FMA!!


"Everytime something like that happens, it was a magician!" -The Simpsons

(I'm being sarcastic...)
Reika
LOL! I saw that episode!! XDDDDDDD you got me there, I can't discuss it with you... XDDDDDD so finally The Simpson were the ones who gave an answer to them!! O.o
Guest
LOL

the simpsons can solve anything. biggrin.gif

is it just me or do that evan unisil guy and thevileone seem remarkably similar....
Dai
I really loves that episode XD and I think too it can explain everything in FMA XD
Evan_Unisil
QUOTE(Reika @ Aug 31 2005, 07:46 AM)
1)You are saying exactly the same TheVileOne said before but with another nick, even the examples are the same.

2)The one that doesn't understand the posts is you. And by questioning our thoughts in other movies/animes, just proves that you are the one that doesn't understand what's being discussed in here, nor our posts. I'll tell you the same I told TheVileOne not long ago that it seems you didn't unsterdand or even read: How the hell are you proving you are right about what you say about FMA with examples of another movies???? That proves:
1)You are not Jerry Bruckheimer even if you've dreamt about it.
2)that you can't actually discuss things giving a real cinema critique opinion.

3)If you want to discuss what I think Donnie Darko is, tell me a forum where we can talk about that, and not in FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST. (Is it something contagious? Because both of you talk exactly the same way, stating the same examples, etc. Because if it is, I'm going out of this forum right now).

[snapback]269190[/snapback]



How the hell are you proving you're right? You're coming up with all this junk that you call 'plot holes' but they are all assumptions! As I said earlier an explanation can be used for almost every one of them, you are only assuming.

I don't think you understand the use of a simile. This argument is completely useless and you manga fanboys are pointless to talk to. Not only that but you are not understanding a word I am saying. Oh and you are horribly wrong about my location. Try the Southern Hemisphere buddy.
Dai
as I was saying, the simpsons explanation is the only one which works XD

it's a pity, it should have been the best anime in years, BONES, I hate you XD
TheVileOne
QUOTE(Dai @ Sep 1 2005, 01:41 PM)
as I was saying, the simpsons explanation is the only one which works XD

it's a pity, it should have been the best anime in years, BONES, I hate you XD
[snapback]270066[/snapback]



Yes, and this is exactly what I'm talking about. These posts are disgusting.

Dai is in the minority.
Maes-Hughes
without BONES there probably would be no fma anime so no i dont hate him
Keos
QUOTE("Mizumi")
Could you mark that stuff with spoilers next time, please (or better, Movie Spoilers)? I started reading and I haven't finished the movie and it almost ruined it for me  Thanks.

(and whoops, sorry if this was a way too late post, just realized that the thread is 13 pages long ^^;;)


Oh, sorry about that. I was pretty outraged by the Movie ending that I didn't think of posting spoilers probably. The premise of the movie is so well-known on this forum (I think) that I neglected to put spoilers here...

Wow, been away for a while and there's more progress of garbage-tossing than discussion on this thread. But I suppose that's to be expected.

BONES did an great job overall, with inconsistencies all over the place. They did a great job because the product overall was fairly well-scripted/written/animated/scored and was greatly moving at some points. The inconsistencies themselves are not necessarily "plotholes"; most of them aren't really, and I need examples of the ones that are. I haven't thoroughly looked at FMA and this generally what I make of it.
Parts they didn't do so well, include the lack of character development in some characters.
Reika
Welcome back, Keos!!

Sorry about those posts from before, we are working at preventing that kind of posts again right now ^^U, the mods have been warned about what kind of discussion is being developed anytime we say "I don't like what Bones did to FMA in the second half".

And yeah, you are right, The inconsistencies themselves are not necessarily "plotholes", that's why I changed the title long ago to "unanswered questions". "Plothole" was the first word that came to my mind when I started this thread, I don't quite control well the cinema terms in english either. So after a while, and specially when I started to work on the document, I said "yeah, more than plotholes they are inconsistencies or contradictions".
Keos
Nice to see you're all healthy and fervantly putting forward your points though biggrin.gif

I have no big problems with the garbage-tossing on this thread - it makes it more interesting in a way hahaha, and the moderators can fix things if they get too out of control, so you need not worry smile.gif

Yeah, it's easy to label inconsistencies as plotholes, though the mis-labelling can result in attacks from people who are keen to point out any potential weak points in your arguments.
Reika
Thankies!! Nice to see you are well too! Actually, I've been wandering where have you been, 'cause I haven't seen you in the whole forum. Well, I suppose summer... vacation... that kind of things XDD too bad, I had to work everyday T_T

hahaha, you are right, actually, I had a big time. But then suddenly they became 2, well, like double TheVileOne and more than once in a day, and it became tiring.. really.. I don't have the energy enough to argue them... XDDD Sadly enough... this topic has kept going because of them ^^U My god, that's really sad...

I KNOW XDDDD And actually, in a kind of way, I understand them. They like what they saw, they like the anime of FMA, they like the result and how it was developed, so I can't blame them for trying to deffend it and their opinion when someone says "I think it's not good". But honestly, I think there are better ways of stating why this anime is great. I stated why I thought the second half wasn't good at all and that it could have been one of the best animes ever, they can do the same the same way, but instead, look what I got myself into ^^U

I posted one of the unaswered questions about... 3 pages ago? XDD What do you think about it?
Keos
Haha, yeah, I've been away cuz I became more busy and interested in uni work tongue.gif But also because I got addicted to another manga (Hana Yori Dango). Are you still schooling or have an official job?

QUOTE
They like what they saw, they like the anime of FMA, they like the result and how it was developed, so I can't blame them for trying to deffend it and their opinion when someone says "I think it's not good". But honestly, I think there are better ways of stating why this anime is great. I stated why I thought the second half wasn't good at all and that it could have been one of the best animes ever, they can do the same the same way, but instead, look what I got myself into ^^U


Oh, but come to think of it, we're ones who have been criticising the anime in some way, and they are right to defend it in a way they think is appropriate. That is, they're outraged that you based your criticism of the anime majorly on the inconsistencies that you've listed in your document (or at least that's an impression they could have gotten because of the amount of effort you put into the document) and of course the whole point of "manga purism" coming into the argument. Compared with the overall high achievement of the series, placing alot of weight on these inconsistencies can attract quite a bit of criticism unless you also state very obviously that you also recognise the good points of the anime (they may tolerate your criticisms better that way) Don't mind me, ^ ^;; I just look and state what I think.

"Wasn't good at all" - I can't agree with that statement. It was still very well done, but just that they COULD have done much better tongue.gif - so I agree they didn't do the best on the story, that could have potentially been realised in the anime. *sigh* There's just no denying that the manga has better story than the anime whichever way you look at it. It also had better character development for more people other than Ed/Al, unlike the anime.

Don't stress, I think you're making good arguments. I gotta bring this one up though:

QUOTE("evan_utensil")
I rest my case. If you people did not understand the meaning behind my "twelve cars and a mansion" statement then truly you cannot understand an anime.


Sorry, buddy, that just doesn't look like a compelling argument however I choose to look at it.... unless you're trying to be extremely subtle with semantics and specific knowledge of things that people don't know and thereby reject any hopes of arguments they can bring up because you are trying to avoid discussion. Either that or making a ludicrous statement which has no bearing on the discussion.


Anyway, back to before with regards to your unanswered questions, Reika:

There are many inconsistencies and mistakes or questions which I'm willing to overlook since BONES wasn't the primary story-maker when they started and weren't in a position where they can look carefully at what they're doing and decide with our type of hindsight that some things they will do will be contradictions. Also sometimes just because they're not that careful about what they put and forget minor details at times. That's just human nature, and it's to be expected from the average anime studio. However, if they were diligent enough to cover all of that (plus more collaboration with Arakawa-sensei herself), I would be VERY impressed.

The following is just a list of questions that I feel compelled to make more comments on. There are more mistakes/inconsistencies of course, according to Reika's document. But I won't make statements on those other ones because I am either not sure about the events in the story (can't recall), too lazy tongue.gif or just willing to overlook them because of what I said above.

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS (in episodes as per Reika's document) -

Episode 1

1) Animals have only been transmuted together when they are alive right? If that is so, then it should be ok. If the animals that are being transmuted are not alive, then we can only say the forbidden rule applies to humans which makes no sense since animals have souls as well (I strongly believe this is true... but your answer may differ depending on the type of animal).

I would like to believe the rule of forbidden transmutation only applies to transmuting things with souls, so since plants have no souls and if they're being transmuted when they are dead, then it still doesn't break the rule.


Episode 2

1) Good question - I suppose they dropped it in because he was panicking and the stone refused his ownership (very odd). Otherwise, no good explanation other than that Ed has some powerful aura or has transmuted the giant statue which affected the stone which was in very close proximity to Cornello. I still just think they put it in for dramatic effect and to go along with the events in the manga.

How does one transmute statues and get them to move? :| I don't get it... that might've been in the manga too, not sure.. but it's a strange concept. Ed isn't telepathic or anything or are the solid statues flexible and pliant enough to move without breaking.

2) Yes - that's the same type of question I would put together with giant moving statues.


Episode 5

1) I think he just punched his hands together which is close enough to clapping. They needed some way to make him realise he can clap.


Episode 9

1) General Hakuro sucks. But of course, you can't determine a person merely on basis of first impression. He may love his family, but that doesnt' mean he can't be an a$$hole to other people.

Episode 10

1) if you're talking about Al transmuting... I thought he transmuted a broken plate into a whole apple :| Now that would be strange since a plate is obviously inorganic and an apple is organic. If you want to talk about chemical composition, then the plate is probably missing a few elements. Making life is not the same thing as making inorganic things... transmuting plants/animals from inorganic materials seem like a shoddy concept to me.


Episode 18

1) Lust probably just used dynamite or something stuff... who knows. To make it sensible, I suppose we gotta assume she had TNT with her.


Episode 29 or 3

I want to know something about the transmuted mother - obviously, in episode 3, she had her innards and ribcage everywhere outside her body and everything was a mess. Somehow she seems pretty complete when she crawled away and became Julia Douglas.


Here's another thought I've had:

QUOTE
Ed recovers his body: Yes. But he gives it in exchange and appears in another world, suddenly with his automail restored (as Winry made it), when even he had to transmutate a different hand for him to fight against the homunculus by just clapping with his broken automail. But in that world misteriously it doesn't work, but in the film yes.


Actually, I don't understand why after regaining his arm/leg, he lost them again when he was trying to bring Al back and ended up in the other world. What was that? Why was he missing his arm/leg anyway? Doesn't make much sense to me since he didn't specifically sacrifice his arm/leg to get Al back, but his whole self. I'll just conclude that the directors like him having metallic arm/leg to keep up the fullmetal namesake.

I might do more later on if I feel like it.
Reika
Ok, let's go bit by bit... XDD your post was long XDDD yay!

[quote]Haha, yeah, I've been away cuz I became more busy and interested in uni work† But also because I got addicted to another manga (Hana Yori Dango). Are you still schooling or have an official job?[/quote]

Both of them XD I have a work and meanwhile I study Japanese and "Sound Technique" (I don't know if that's the right translation). Also, Dai and me are developing the plot of our future to be manga, while producing and directing a couple of dubbings and a short film.

[quote]Oh, but come to think of it, we're ones who have been criticising the anime in some way, and they are right to defend it in a way they think is appropriate. That is, they're outraged that you based your criticism of the anime majorly on the inconsistencies that you've listed in your document (or at least that's an impression they could have gotten because of the amount of effort you put into the document) and of course the whole point of "manga purism" coming into the argument. Compared with the overall high achievement of the series, placing alot of weight on these inconsistencies can attract quite a bit of criticism unless you also state very obviously that you also recognise the good points of the anime (they may tolerate your criticisms better that way) Don't mind me, ^ ^;; I just look and state what I think.[/quote]

Of course, I have to say that I was outraged about the movie when I decided to open this thread. Personally, I think they should have asked Arakawas opinion, but... reading her comments towards the anime, I think she didn't want to have much to do with it.

I suppose you are right about the impression it might give... but afterall it's the thing you can expect to find in a thread that says "Do you Hate what BONES did to FMA?". So if someone comes here to read what's this about, should be prepared to read every kind of statements about this anime, should be a little bit more open minded, I mean.

About the "manga purism"... I find that funny XDDDDD because they MADE me read the manga of FMA, I don't like mangas and I laugh when someone calls me "you are a manga freak" XDDDDD since they had to FORCE me read it (it took me a while untill I decided to do it XD). But now I'm really glad Dai made me read it ^^ (thank you, dai!!!). I'm more an anime freak in general, that's why I saw the anime first. And I thought it was good, taking the inconsistences away, because the story itself is really good and man, I LOVE drama XD. I didn't have seen any other anime like this, and it's great to see an anime where not all the main characters are youngsters or kids, so it really reached me, specially with Hughes' death and Nina's. In the second half.. I wasn't so interested and I noticed some things, but overall I thought "It's a great story". I would have changed some things, develope some points a little bit more and be carefull with other things, but that's my personal opinion.


[quote]*sigh* There's just no denying that the manga has better story than the anime whichever way you look at it. It also had better character development for more people other than Ed/Al, unlike the anime.[/quote]

I agree, what I found first thing weak in the second half was the weak character development, that's one of the things that made me notice there was a change in the script-writer or something.

[quote]1) Animals have only been transmuted together when they are alive right? If that is so, then it should be ok. If the animals that are being transmuted are not alive, then we can only say the forbidden rule applies to humans which makes no sense since animals have souls as well (I strongly believe this is true... but your answer may differ depending on the type of animal).

I would like to believe the rule of forbidden transmutation only applies to transmuting things with souls, so since plants have no souls and if they're being transmuted when they are dead, then it still doesn't break the rule.
[/quote]

I agree with this, about the soul transmutation, because after all, making a body without life, should be as easy as to make a puppet (well, not as easy, but, nothing to give in exchange as to request some parts of your body or even yourself)

Anyways, we can't know if plants don't have souls, since it isn't prooved that even we have souls. We would need to enter in the biology territory XD but in my biology classes, I was told that the plants where living forms. But I can see your point, and what it made me suspect about this, was the fact that in the manga has never happened, so I decided to point it out to discuss it.

[QUOTE]1) Good question - I suppose they dropped it in because he was panicking and the stone refused his ownership (very odd). Otherwise, no good explanation other than that Ed has some powerful aura or has transmuted the giant statue which affected the stone which was in very close proximity to Cornello. I still just think they put it in for dramatic effect and to go along with the events in the manga.

How does one transmute statues and get them to move? :| I don't get it... that might've been in the manga too, not sure.. but it's a strange concept. Ed isn't telepathic or anything or are the solid statues flexible and pliant enough to move without breaking.
[/QUOTE]

1)I agree.

I've been thinking about that since a couple of days ago, and the only explanation I can give is that while you can transmutate it into any form, you can keep transmutatin them so they have the movement effect. I mean, first, you transmutate the statue, and secondly, you break some points of it and transmutate another points and it makes their feet move. That way, it makes it to be something really difficult since it must be done really fast in order to the statue won't fall, and that would explain why cornello said "Even I with the PS can't move something that big". *shrugs*

[QUOTE]
2) Yes - that's the same type of question I would put together with giant moving statues.[/QUOTE]

While I can't think about an answer for Envy, I would bet for the one I stated above for the statues. Dunno, what do you think?

[QUOTE]1) I think he just punched his hands together which is close enough to clapping. They needed some way to make him realise he can clap.[/QUOTE]

But still, it isn't clapping. And anyways, a transmutation is something you control, right? I find odd the fact that he could make the water boil without realizing it.

[QUOTE]1) General Hakuro sucks. But of course, you can't determine a person merely on basis of first impression. He may love his family, but that doesnt' mean he can't be an a$$hole to other people.[/QUOTE]

True, but in next episodes he seems a "happy-happy" man, and in the next he appears again an a$$hole XD I found that odd too.

[QUOTE]1) if you're talking about Al transmuting... I thought he transmuted a broken plate into a whole apple :| Now that would be strange since a plate is obviously inorganic and an apple is organic. If you want to talk about chemical composition, then the plate is probably missing a few elements. Making life is not the same thing as making inorganic things... transmuting plants/animals from inorganic materials seem like a shoddy concept to me.[/QUOTE]

No... in the avi files I have he transmuted a pealed apple into a non-pealed apple, with trunk and all! XDD

[QUOTE]
1) Lust probably just used dynamite or something stuff... who knows. To make it sensible, I suppose we gotta assume she had TNT with her.[/QUOTE]

hahahahaha!!!!! XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD *5minutes later* ok, maybe she had TNT. ehem... XDDDD

[QUOTE]I want to know something about the transmuted mother - obviously, in episode 3, she had her innards and ribcage everywhere outside her body and everything was a mess. Somehow she seems pretty complete when she crawled away and became Julia Douglas.[/QUOTE]

According to BONES, the homunculus obtain a form and power after they eat the red stone, and we are shown how Dante (before she became Lyla) gave them to a hand and a deformed form (puaj! >.<). But... thinking about it, I hardly think that homunculus could stand since it even spited blood... (agh! let's stop thinking about this xDDD)

[QUOTE]Actually, I don't understand why after regaining his arm/leg, he lost them again when he was trying to bring Al back and ended up in the other world. What was that? Why was he missing his arm/leg anyway? Doesn't make much sense to me since he didn't specifically sacrifice his arm/leg to get Al back, but his whole self. I'll just conclude that the directors like him having metallic arm/leg to keep up the fullmetal namesake.
[/QUOTE]

That's some point I added in the document:

18) When Ed wakes up in London, he has his automail back. WHY? Since he had his new complete body, which he gave in exchange after he started the transmutation of Al, his body should have been separated from his soul and mind inside the door (as exchange). Even if we ignore this fact, and imagine that it doesnít happen that way and he keeps himself all together, lets imagine that he, for some reason, while trying to go to London, loses his arm and leg again. It would be understandable that he appeared without the arm and the leg, but how did he get the automailed arm and leg, and connect them to his body? Did even Al give it in exchange for Edís transmutation? (so was it inside the door in the first place so Ed could take it when he gave himself as sacrifice?). But most important of all, since Edís armís automail got broken in episode 47 and he managed to somehow transmutate some kind of hand... if we look carefully the hand is not the same as the one Winry makes him: 1.- Edís transmutation has his fingers all in one piece while Winryís have all their articulations.
2.-Edís transmutation doesnít have the big screw and the two ones on each side of this that Winryís has.
So after we realize this... and look at the hand he has when he is in London... why the hell is it the same as Winryís fabrications?

along with:

19) Why does Edís automail fail in London? Why isnít he able to move it properly?

---

I suppose they thought that Ed without Automail wasn't Ed, and it gives a continuity to the film and the show if they need a second part.

But in order for him to have the automail back when he was in london first: Al had had to give those automails in exchange to the door along with himself and the philosopher's stone (which I find quite unbelievable) so Ed could find them inside the door when he gave himself in exchange.

Secondly: After he gave himself in exchange, he needed to lose his current arm and leg inside of it. Something that I find quite nonsense since he could have fight for this arm and leg instead of the automail (which needs to be implated, and to do that, Ed needed the metallic part that joins the nervs with the automail already implated. So if he was able to still do that, he should be able to join his arm and leg, also, he would have to look for the automails in the door). So I can't find any explanation for this, at least logical.

*teary eyes* *sniff* I'm discussing this... without insults... nor gabbage-tossing... Keos, you made my dream come true... I LOVE YOU!!!! T^T XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Guest
QUOTE(Keos @ Sep 3 2005, 03:20 AM)
Episode 5

1) I think he just punched his hands together which is close enough to clapping.  They needed some way to make him realise he can clap.
[snapback]271931[/snapback]


Just a note that the punch was changed to a clap for the DVD versions, which was used for the American broadcast. This was discussed in the thread Something Perculiar started by Quitis88.

So that means BONES saw the original punching as a mistake.
Reika
QUOTE
Just a note that the punch was changed to a clap for the DVD versions, which was used for the American broadcast. This was discussed in the thread Something Perculiar started by Quitis88.

So that means BONES saw the original punching as a mistake.


They changed it for the DVD version?? O.o maybe they changed the plate thing too??

And here I was being insulted because I said it was a mistake when BONES itself agrees with me *sigh*
Dai
QUOTE(Maes-Hughes @ Sep 2 2005, 01:55 AM)
without BONES there probably would be no fma anime so no i dont hate him
[snapback]270481[/snapback]


Well, that's a very respectable opinion, but I don't agree. Because without BONES, any other company should be able to make FMA, and the results could have been better... or worse (TOEI, for example XD)
Keos
Hahahaha - that's one thing to note then, one question solved! XD Wow, thanks for the note, guest!

QUOTE
Both of them XD I have a work and meanwhile I study Japanese and "Sound Technique" (I don't know if that's the right translation). Also, Dai and me are developing the plot of our future to be manga, while producing and directing a couple of dubbings and a short film.


Oh really? Future manga, huh That sounds so fun and creative biggrin.gif You Do you just publish it in your deviantArt place?
You probably mean sound engineering? (I'm not too sure what sound engineering involves though.. writing music? :|)


QUOTE
About the "manga purism"... I find that funny XDDDDD because they MADE me read the manga of FMA, I don't like mangas and I laugh when someone calls me "you are a manga freak" XDDDDD since they had to FORCE me read it (it took me a while untill I decided to do it XD). But now I'm really glad Dai made me read it ^^ (thank you, dai!!!). I'm more an anime freak in general, that's why I saw the anime first. And I thought it was good, taking the inconsistences away, because the story itself is really good and man, I LOVE drama XD. I didn't have seen any other anime like this, and it's great to see an anime where not all the main characters are youngsters or kids, so it really reached me, specially with Hughes' death and Nina's. In the second half.. I wasn't so interested and I noticed some things, but overall I thought "It's a great story". I would have changed some things, develope some points a little bit more and be carefull with other things, but that's my personal opinion.


Dai must be given credit to get you to read the manga, then tongue.gif I also watched the anime first... actually, I got a friend who was working really hard to push me into reading the manga, but I was just too bored. However, but chance, I got to see the anime and decided to pick up reading the manga when I finished, haha. At first, I was kind of in denial that the manga was better than the anime, but since the movie, I am resenting some of the anime openly now, and am embracing the manga for it gives me new hope smile.gif


QUOTE
Anyways, we can't know if plants don't have souls, since it isn't prooved that even we have souls. We would need to enter in the biology territory XD but in my biology classes, I was told that the plants where living forms. But I can see your point, and what it made me suspect about this, was the fact that in the manga has never happened, so I decided to point it out to discuss it.


Well, the concept of having a "soul" is usually something entrenched in religions, and religions have large influences in society views. So no matter what religious background you have or if you're atheist, the general concept of a "soul" should still be well-known and understood. I think, it is universally recognised that all humans have souls (something that is a spiritual part of oneself). An animal may or may not have a soul depending on the religion probably ... I'm not sure, but Christianity probably doesn't regard animals have having souls... at least not to the extent that is within religions like Buddhism. But also, I think it is generally accepted that plants don't have souls - unless you can rebut this with some source. FMA has been strongly influenced by Christianity, so while I don't want to touch whether the animals have a soul or not, I think I can say that in the FMA world, plants would not have souls (yeah, I know... I've written alittle too much on this point tongue.gif).


QUOTE
I've been thinking about that since a couple of days ago, and the only explanation I can give is that while you can transmutate it into any form, you can keep transmutatin them so they have the movement effect. I mean, first, you transmutate the statue, and secondly, you break some points of it and transmutate another points and it makes their feet move. That way, it makes it to be something really difficult since it must be done really fast in order to the statue won't fall, and that would explain why cornello said "Even I with the PS can't move something that big". *shrugs*


Yeah, that's one way of making the statues move, but the amount of concentration and skill involved in such a process would have to be impossible to fathom for just one statue... much less for a whole heap of them - but if we're talking about a whole lot of statues, I suppose the philosopher's stone facilitates all that work (hey, you know, all this is quite a lot of work... you don't think the philosopher's stone overworked itself there and broke a few minutes later, do you? Right now, we're trying to make up theories to cover up for these things - not sure if the producers or even the manga-ka had these sort of things in contemplation when they wrote their stories).

Still, even if one can argue that there's a way to move them, by what Cornello and Ed were doing (ie. standing there, raising fingers, imitating statue's movements), it's hard to tell whether what they're doing is alchemy or summoning through telekinesis laugh.gif


QUOTE
No... in the avi files I have he transmuted a pealed apple into a non-pealed apple, with trunk and all! XDD


Really? Which episode is that? I think I saw the Psiren episode where the lady dropped the plate and it broke. Then Al quickly moved over, drew a transmutation circle on the ground and transmuted the broken plate into an apple mellow.gif


QUOTE
According to BONES, the homunculus obtain a form and power after they eat the red stone, and we are shown how Dante (before she became Lyla) gave them to a hand and a deformed form (puaj! >.<). But... thinking about it, I hardly think that homunculus could stand since it even spited blood... (agh! let's stop thinking about this xDDD)


Ahh... deformed eh? Well, that would supposedly cover it, but then the extent of how much the philosopher's stone can recover someone so deformed becomes very far-fetched. There should be a limit to how much eating the philosopher's stone can do that, and I think the transmuted mother had her innards strewn about like she's been turned inside out. In fact, I don't think she she had a completely normal body - the whole thing looked like a mess. Well, fact that none of it was clearly shown lets BONES take that advantage to cook up the Julia Douglas story. All in all, not a bad improvisation, though obviously can become noticeably flawed.


Woah, the whole stuff to do with the gate and exchange is pretty confusing and hard to understand tongue.gif I'm glad at least one of us knows what we're talking about ^ ^;; All I know is that Ed's arm/leg had no evident signs of being the instruments that needed to be exchanged in order to get him to the other side of the gate or Al back.


QUOTE
*teary eyes* *sniff* I'm discussing this... without insults... nor gabbage-tossing... Keos, you made my dream come true... I LOVE YOU!!!! T^T XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD



laugh.gif Awww cool.gif *hands over tissues*
Stuart
Well, what a mess.

First of all:
QUOTE(Guest @ Sep 3 2005, 08:27 PM)
Just a note that the punch was changed to a clap for the DVD versions, which was used for the American broadcast. This was discussed in the thread Something Perculiar started by Quitis88.

So that means BONES saw the original punching as a mistake.

You are right, Bones changed it, and I agree with the change, it was a mistake and they know, so they change it. I think that did well in this case.

QUOTE(Evan-Unisil)
]And I've produced such famous movies as Pearl Harbour, The Island and Pirates of the Caribbean. I know much more about movies than you do.

That's not important. In fact, japanesse productions are different from american ones, you can't compare them, and you can't give a perfect opinion just because you work in one of them, neither.

If the Anime script writers and producers are so good to change so much without mistakes (hey, they almost make a new story), why do they need the mangakas?

QUOTE(TheVileOne)
Its a big deal to me when the complaints are among the most superficial, nitpicking, and ridiculous I have ever seen.

If they are nitpicking, ridiculous and superficial mistakes... why do they spent time and money (2 of the most importants things in cinema productions) to change them?

After reading all this thread (yes, ALL), I have to say that I have more reasons to think that the Freak ones are TheVileOne and Evan_Unisil since they didn't gave any open into this discussion.

Have you thougth that maybe you are the ones which don't understand the anime?

Hey, I like FMA anime and manga, but I can face the facts.
Reika
QUOTE(Keos @ Sep 3 2005, 03:22 PM)
Oh really?  Future manga, huh That sounds so fun and creative biggrin.gif  You  Do you just publish it in your deviantArt place? 
You probably mean sound engineering?  (I'm not too sure what sound engineering involves though.. writing music? :|)



No, we are going to register it and publish it proffesionally ^^. Sound engineering???... well, I'm learning how to use a mixing table... how to join the dubbed files and edit them, etc...

QUOTE
Dai must be given credit to get you to read the manga, then tongue.gif  I also watched the anime first... actually, I got a friend who was working really hard to push me into reading the manga, but I was just too bored.  However, but chance, I got to see the anime and decided to pick up reading the manga when I finished, haha.  At first, I was kind of in denial that the manga was better than the anime, but since the movie, I am resenting some of the anime openly now, and am embracing the manga for it gives me new hope smile.gif


I've always thought about the mangas as "some drawings in a paper that can't have as much as emotion as an anime or film" XDD Then I discovered the FMA manga (DAI THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! XDDDD) and discovered that it's not like that. You just had to see me in the floor laughing hard or when I cryed with Hughes' and Nina's dead... I was so surprised by this because it was the first time I was so emotionally with a manga. I started reading "Angel Sanctuary" because they said it was better than the anime but I got bored.. I was like "come on Reika, another page..." and finally I left it behind XD if I ever have the chance I'll see the anime, but the manga really bored me... sleep.gifU The only one I have been able to read besides FMA was Evangelion, I think it was because it explains much more than the anime. You gotta know some religion and philosophy terms to understand that anime... and the manga helps.


QUOTE
Well, the concept of having a "soul" is usually something entrenched in religions, and religions have large influences in society views.  So no matter what religious background you have or if you're atheist, the general concept of a "soul" should still be well-known and understood.  I think, it is universally recognised that all humans have souls (something that is a spiritual part of oneself).  An animal may or may not have a soul depending on the religion probably ... I'm not sure, but Christianity probably doesn't regard animals have having souls... at least not to the extent that is within religions like Buddhism.  But also, I think it is generally accepted that plants don't have souls - unless you can rebut this with some source.  FMA has been strongly influenced by Christianity, so while I don't want to touch whether the animals have a soul or not, I think I can say that in the FMA world, plants would not have souls (yeah, I know... I've written alittle too much on this point tongue.gif).


Don't worry XDD. Well... actually, my point of view is that every living form has a soul XDDD but that's besides the point. This point is something really difficult to discuss, for the terms of the soul. Anyways, they are living forms, and as a living form they have their own mechanism to raise, feed and breath etc. and the one that is trying to transmutate it must know pretty much about that to be able to do it correctly. I suppose the one that is able to make a human transmutation, is able to create plants,but it should be really difficult (you know, the cloroplasts and all this thingies I can't recall now XDDD).


QUOTE
Yeah, that's one way of making the statues move, but the amount of concentration and skill involved in such a process would have to be impossible to fathom for just one statue... much less for a whole heap of them - but if we're talking about a whole lot of statues, I suppose the philosopher's stone facilitates all that work (hey, you know, all this is quite a lot of work... you don't think the philosopher's stone overworked itself there and broke a few minutes later, do you?  Right now, we're trying to make up theories to cover up for these things - not sure if the producers or even the manga-ka had these sort of things in contemplation when they wrote their stories). 


In the manga is clearly that it happened after he transmutated the gun... but in the anime.. yeah, that could have been the reason of the overload... but still, why all that cables? The funny thing is that they are exactly the same as the manga's O.o (And yeah, I don't think they took all of this in contemplation XDDDDDDDD, specially because it was the start)

QUOTE
Still, even if one can argue that there's a way to move them, by what Cornello and Ed were doing (ie. standing there, raising fingers, imitating statue's movements), it's hard to tell whether what they're doing is alchemy or summoning through telekinesis  laugh.gif


hahahahahahah!! XDDDDDDDDDDD you are right, I suppose that it could be stated as another "unanswered question"? We can give our theories but... that's what they are, theories.

QUOTE
Really?  Which episode is that?  I think I saw the Psiren episode where the lady dropped the plate and it broke.  Then Al quickly moved over, drew a transmutation circle on the ground and transmuted the broken plate into an apple mellow.gif


O.o!! wait, I'll look for it right now. *opens the windows movie player and automatically starts playing FMA XD*

It's episode 10, minute 8:22: The plate falls along with the apple, but the plate is alright. The apple is the one on the ground. Minute 8:28 Al takes the pieces of the apple and draws a transmutation circle with a chalk. Minute 8:35, he transmutates the pealed apple into a non-pealed one with trunk and all XD.


QUOTE
Ahh... deformed eh?  Well, that would supposedly cover it, but then the extent of how much the philosopher's stone can recover someone so deformed becomes very far-fetched.  There should be a limit to how much eating the philosopher's stone can do that, and I think the transmuted mother had her innards strewn about like she's been turned inside out.  In fact, I don't think she she had a completely normal body  - the whole thing looked like a mess.  Well, fact that none of it was clearly shown lets BONES take that advantage to cook up the Julia Douglas story.  All in all, not a bad improvisation, though obviously can become noticeably flawed.


I agree.


QUOTE
Woah, the whole stuff to do with the gate and exchange is pretty confusing and hard to understand tongue.gif  I'm glad at least one of us knows what we're talking about ^ ^;;  All I know is that Ed's arm/leg had no evident signs of being the instruments that needed to be exchanged in order to get him to the other side of the gate or Al back.


Yeah it's pretty confusing, I need to ask for help to Dai in order to put all my ideas together so they can make some sense XDDDDDD I start thinking about it and the ideas come, but when I start to write them I'm like "...and... what was I going to say with this...?" XDDDDD

It doesn't make sense that Al give all that in exchange of Ed (I mean, himself + Philosopher's Stone + supposedly Ed's automail) while Ed "only" gave himself. And it doesn't make sense to me either that he appears in london, he could have fought to go back to Amestris, right?
Keos
First of all, I gotta applaud you for reading all the way through such a long thread, Stuart and then making your points smile.gif Welcome to the forum!

@Reika:

QUOTE
No, we are going to register it and publish it proffesionally ^^. Sound engineering???... well, I'm learning how to use a mixing table... how to join the dubbed files and edit them, etc...


Publishing it professionally eh? That means we won't get access to it here on the internet then? blink.gif


QUOTE
I've always thought about the mangas as "some drawings in a paper that can't have as much as emotion as an anime or film" XDD Then I discovered the FMA manga (DAI THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! XDDDD) and discovered that it's not like that. You just had to see me in the floor laughing hard or when I cryed with Hughes' and Nina's dead... I was so surprised by this because it was the first time I was so emotionally with a manga. I started reading "Angel Sanctuary" because they said it was better than the anime but I got bored.. I was like "come on Reika, another page..." and finally I left it behind XD if I ever have the chance I'll see the anime, but the manga really bored me... U The only one I have been able to read besides FMA was Evangelion, I think it was because it explains much more than the anime. You gotta know some religion and philosophy terms to understand that anime... and the manga helps.


The thing is, it's usually difficult to go back to reading the manga all the way from the start when you've finished watching the anime series.... especially if it's exactly the same. So, I know what you mean. I've never read the NGE manga, but I've watched the anime. Is it different from the anime? I have Angel Sanctuary too, but I never bothered reading it - the relationships all look so complicated and twisted.

QUOTE
I suppose the one that is able to make a human transmutation, is able to create plants,but it should be really difficult (you know, the cloroplasts and all this thingies I can't recall now XDDD).


Even though I think plants have no souls, they are still organic and to make them from elements/inorganic materials is very hard to do.... just look at the experiments of what they're trying to do in the labs - just trying to get the right formulation of compounds that make up life (carbon-based, yes, but rearrangement of molecules etc). Actually, that's something more - it seems alchemists have the abilities to rearrange the molecules of certain compounds/elements and make them different, which is amazing and far-fetched as reality goes (not forgetting this is a fantasy show). But the difference with bringing life (even if it's a plant) is giving it the self-growth ability.... mm logically speaking, then I gotta say that bringing a plant back to life is as difficult as bringing a living being back - but the noticeable difference here is the hurdle presented by the presence of a soul when transmuting a dead animal/person back to life as opposed to plants (keeping in mind, plants probably don't have souls in FMA). While it seems impossibly difficult to bring plants back to life, FMA is still fantasy and can make that happen (as it seems it already happened right?). So really, bringing a plant back to life does not really break the rules of forbidden alchemy.


QUOTE
O.o!! wait, I'll look for it right now. *opens the windows movie player and automatically starts playing FMA XD*

It's episode 10, minute 8:22: The plate falls along with the apple, but the plate is alright. The apple is the one on the ground. Minute 8:28 Al takes the pieces of the apple and draws a transmutation circle with a chalk. Minute 8:35, he transmutates the pealed apple into a non-pealed one with trunk and all XD.


Wow, you sure? I suppose I gotta watch that part again then tongue.gif Later maybe.


QUOTE
Yeah it's pretty confusing, I need to ask for help to Dai in order to put all my ideas together so they can make some sense XDDDDDD I start thinking about it and the ideas come, but when I start to write them I'm like "...and... what was I going to say with this...?" XDDDDD


Haha, yes... that happens all too often to me... especially at night, but hopefully not during tests > <

QUOTE
It doesn't make sense that Al give all that in exchange of Ed (I mean, himself + Philosopher's Stone + supposedly Ed's automail) while Ed "only" gave himself. And it doesn't make sense to me either that he appears in london, he could have fought to go back to Amestris, right?


No that doesn't make sense - which is why I'm confused as well, I guess huh.gif But it's just the way the anime was made.... they made the story, so, however non-sensical it may seem, we gotta accept it.


I wonder - have you ever thought about the possibility that Ed (or other automail users) might've contracted tetanus when he got bound to the automail with still raw, fresh wounds? tongue.gif I thought that was a pretty large flaw but one that is so necessary that it should be dismissed for the greater good of the story. No, I'm not forgetting that FMA is not real and things like this happens. I guess it depends on how much you notice. This is just something interesting to note.
Stuart
QUOTE(Keos @ Sep 4 2005, 12:40 AM)
First of all, I gotta applaud you for reading all the way through such a long thread, Stuart and then making your points smile.gif  Welcome to the forum!

Thank you Keos, and thanks too because the welcome.
edwardasakura18
some slight spoilage:

well..i just finished watching all the anime episodes..sans the movie and yea..i guess im kinda mad too. i was expecting this great grandiose ending and now i sit here pretty much confused. im not sure how to feel about the end and it left so much open. it was building up and just so great then i get to the end and i kinda feel like ive been dropped on my head. im sad that its over and im sad over some of the things that happened but it was like this.. teachers tell you not to bring new information towards the end of your essay right? well i think that they broke that rule here and abandoned so much of what the show had been building on like equivalent exchange. i still gotta go back and rewatch it a couple more times but ya.. im sure some of you guys feel the same. in fact im not sure how to feel. its weird i thought id be sad or content and i am hardly either. i love this anime but now im not so sure what to say or anything... and another point that lost me: the other side of the gate.. up till that i felt that the series had kept pretty consistent with the ideals of actual alchemy but now its all different. sure i can accept that it is a story and one can do whatever they want since it is theirs but.. i really loved that fact that it was so well researched, so true-ish..gah.. im at a loss <_> TELL ME HOW TO FEEL!! (or well not..eash im just so --> @_@)
Dai
I think you feel what I feel XDDDDDDDDDDDDD I really can't stand to that end, please... the first time I saw London I almost fainted XDDDDDDDD
Reika
@EdwardSakura18: I felt the same way when I saw the anime (specially after reading the manga). But what really told me how to feel was the movie XDDD

@Keos: I'll answer you as soon as I finish something I'm doing.

---Edit---

Ok, I finished what I was doing, here you have it. Someone said "I can fix your list in two days and at class", I answered him:

http://es.geocities.com/aahboba/hello.pdf

(This was stated in American Audience--> A little Mistake)

I'll answer you tomorrow, Keos, I don't have strength right now XD
Keos
Reply when you're feeling fresh then smile.gif


I had a look at that link you just posted and I feel compelled to say something:

Although I understand that you are displeased with the anime (as I am as well), saying that "...what BONES did to FMA was crappy, pitiful and shameful, and there's no way that it can be a praise to the manga" is very harsh and unfair to BONES. I'm going into semantics now, but, to be fair, you must realise that the FMA anime is, by itself, a very high achievement in the current anime media pool. I can confidently say it's one of the best anime broadcasted and made in recent years. Alot of anime are very dodgy with cliche concepts and characters, and although credit for the original concept of FMA, is to be given entirely to the manga-ka, the overall presentation of the FMA anime plus the makers' attempt at the continuation of the rest of the series (when they could not base it on the manga anymore) is undeniably of a very high standard. It didn't outdo the manga, but it certainly gave most people a positive opinion of "Fullmetal Alchemist". In the west, there will alway be more people watching anime than reading the manga as you well know, even when it's clear that the manga is superior. Sadly, that's just the way it is.


I have to remind you that FMA is not real and of course, things that may happen in real life cannot be expected to be followed exactly (namely the science/physics/chemical reactions which were presented as they had been in the show) - that is the premise of making fiction. To be entertained, we cannot worry about little things like following the normal law of physics or chemical reactions in the anime; anime is a genre known for its defiance of reality and laws of physics smile.gif
Reika
Thanks XD

About what I said, I also stated it was MY own personal opinion, as others have thems. About "BONES' SUPER REALISM" I pointed them out because first: In the first half the anime was more realistic, they died with just one bullet, they got tired by fighting and felt dizzy because of the loss of blood. And second: they went in the movie and said "we made this anime and movie very realistic". Of course, this points won't show when the document is sent to them. It doesn't bother me if an anime is not realistic XDD the thing I like the most is the fantasy, GODS, I LOVE the Lord Of The Rings!

Anyways, those point were in the first document too, what interests from the new document is the answers this person tried to give.
Keos
Actually, I didn't mean not liking fantasy or things that are not realistic, I won't elaborate, but suffice it to say, it's one of those things I classify as minor enough to dismiss/overlook in an anime production. I didn't like Lord of the Rings... well, I didn't like the books (tried reading Two Towers, but it was so boring). The movies were good, the third one was the best, but the other two were not life-changing for me or moving for me as other people seems to make it out as.

EDIT

In addition to my opinions, I was also trying to be objective, taking into consideration, how much fans embraced the show and comparing the anime in general to other anime out there. Just doing that, I can see that FMA is head and shoulders above quite a lot of recent anime out there. To be honest, although I say that FMA is a great anime, I sometimes get bored with parts of it and it just wasn't as moving for me as some great anime like Card Captor Sakura. I immensely enjoyed CCS, loved most, if not all the characters in it, felt very attached to them and was so moved at many times by their actions and demeanour that I actually cried (this was due in part to the great music there).

I'll say it right now that alot of what I said about FMA being a great show is me trying to be objective - but I don't speak of it as it being one of my favourite anime of all time. A measure I love an anime is how often and how deeply I feel moved by the characters (which makes those moments very memorable to me and make me remember how much I love the anime). This can be heavily influenced by the music and animation (the overall atmosphere). I don't think I cried much during FMA - I didn't really cry when I saw Hughes die, but I was very stabbed when Ed died the first time and I felt very moved when he sacrificed himself to bring Al back. In general, I was very moved by the brothers' childhood and trials, but there were flaws in the latter half of the anime that made me feel that there was a lack of character development. Remembering what I said about characters moving me making me love an anime more .... well, due to the lack of character development, I felt there were times when it felt rather tedious watching the anime.

I do not claim FMA to be one of the greatest anime of all time, nor do I claim it as my favourite anime of all time due to the reasons given above (lack of character developments can go a long way). Because of how much I love Ed, Al, Winry and the military people, I can only say that I greatly love the Fullmetal Alchemist manga and feel disappointed by the anime.
Reika
QUOTE(Keos @ Sep 3 2005, 04:40 PM)
Publishing it professionally eh?  That means we won't get access to it here on the internet then? blink.gif


Nop! hehe, actually.. we are thinking about the possibility of publishing something for free and see what happens.

QUOTE
The thing is, it's usually difficult to go back to reading the manga all the way from the start when you've finished watching the anime series.... especially if it's exactly the same.  So, I know what you mean.  I've never read the NGE manga, but I've watched the anime.  Is it different from the anime?  I have Angel Sanctuary too, but I never bothered reading it - the relationships all look so complicated and twisted.


It's not different, but there are more scenes and some are more clearly explained, I advise you to read it, if you like the series you really ought to read it ^^.

QUOTE
Even though I think plants have no souls, they are still organic and to make them from elements/inorganic materials is very hard to do.... just look at the experiments of what they're trying to do in the labs - just trying to get the right formulation of compounds that make up life (carbon-based, yes, but rearrangement of molecules etc).  Actually, that's something more - it seems alchemists have the abilities to rearrange the molecules of certain compounds/elements and make them different, which is amazing and far-fetched as reality goes (not forgetting this is a fantasy show).  But the difference with bringing life (even if it's a plant) is giving it the self-growth ability.... mm logically speaking, then I gotta say that bringing a plant back to life is as difficult as bringing a living being back - but the noticeable difference here is the hurdle presented by the presence of a soul when transmuting a dead animal/person back to life as opposed to plants (keeping in mind, plants probably don't have souls in FMA).  While it seems impossibly difficult to bring plants back to life, FMA is still fantasy and can make that happen (as it seems it already happened right?).  So really, bringing a plant back to life does not really break the rules of forbidden alchemy.


Well, I think it may be breaking the rule since in the manga never's happened... but your reasoning is actually good.


QUOTE
Wow, you sure?  I suppose I gotta watch that part again then tongue.gif Later maybe.


Yup! Maybe you have the DVD version? BONES did change some points for the DVD version, for example, the punching scene in episode 5? They changed to a clapping version.

QUOTE
No that doesn't make sense - which is why I'm confused as well, I guess huh.gif  But it's just the way the anime was made.... they made the story, so, however non-sensical it may seem, we gotta accept it.


Of course, no matter how much we complain about it, what is done is done.

QUOTE
I wonder - have you ever thought about the possibility that Ed (or other automail users) might've contracted tetanus when he got bound to the automail with still raw, fresh wounds? tongue.gif  I thought that was a pretty large flaw but one that is so necessary that it should be dismissed for the greater good of the story.  No, I'm not forgetting that FMA is not real and things like this happens.  I guess it depends on how much you notice.  This is just something interesting to note.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD You know??? I never thought about that!!! OMG is really interesting and something to think about... I don't think they had the technology and medical knowledge as to sterilize them...
Keos
QUOTE
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD You know??? I never thought about that!!! OMG is really interesting and something to think about... I don't think they had the technology and medical knowledge as to sterilize them...


Yeah, I know tongue.gif - I had been thinking about that for awhile now, but hey, if one wants to criticise the manga/anime based on that, one would end up criticising the entire story etc. It's interesting to note it of course - it depends on when the manga was set in. In the anime, I'm definitely sure that it was set in the early 1910s to 1920s where they couldn't have sterilised or prevented such things happening. I don't know if the manga was also set in that time and whether they have modern medical treatment. I suppose if they had the skills to actually attach nerves to metals, then they probably provided for tetanus treatment as well. I'm going to see how modern prostheses work.

I also edited my previous post to include more of my personal subjective thoughts.
Reika
Both the anime and the manga are based basically in the same time. the end of the series is supposed to be in 1914. But the movie, which is after two years, instead of being in 1916 it takes place in 1920. That's some point of the 7 year time gap stated in the document, although I couldn't really understand well xDDD it was stated by Uber_Panda.

Anyways, Anime!Amestris seems more advanced than it should be at that time (see the cars, the cigarettes, the roads, etc), so I suppose there would be that kind of trearments XD

EDIT: Nice post the other one XD. It seems the anime didn't reach me the same way (which is normal XD). I like the characters, the story and their childhood trials and all, but I can't say that's something I like from the anime itself, because I feel that that's something the anime took from the manga, as well as the alchemical powers and all, and that's the basement of both stories. So I like the anime, because I like the story. I don't like the anime, because I think they should have paid more attention to some points and develope other ones (for example: the characters). So it's kind of "I like it, but... I'm not satisfied".
Keos
Yeah, and look at the sort of clothes Winry wears - definitely not something people in the 1910s would wear. She's one modern gal that's for sure!

"I like it, but... I'm not satisfied" - that's just how it is for me .... I agree, I would like FMA because the basis is all good and BONES did do good making me feel moved (just be glad BONES didn't make FMA into something like DBZ or Yugioh).
Reika
QUOTE(Keos @ Sep 4 2005, 02:13 PM)
(just be glad BONES didn't make FMA into something like DBZ or Yugioh).
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AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--Super high-pitched scream

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Yes, I'M REALLY GLAD, THANKS BONES!! [offtopic]We have enough with Naruto...[/offtopic]
Keos
hahaha biggrin.gif

I think Naruto is a great manga/anime - just the side stories are dragging on for abit too long... but it definitely beats Yugioh and DBZ tongue.gif
Reika
Yeah, I think so too XD
TheVileOne
[QUOTE]
Ok, let's go bit by bit... XDD your post was long XDDD yay!

Of course, I have to say that I was outraged about the movie when I decided to open this thread. Personally, I think they should have asked Arakawas opinion, but... reading her comments towards the anime, I think she didn't want to have much to do with it.[/QUOTE]

Stan Lee didn't have much to do with the Spider-man movies or the wonderful animated series from the 90's, but they still rocked. In fact, on the DVD for the cartoons, the only guy that appears on them is Stan Lee. He didn't work on the series AT ALL. The real show-runner and series creator, John Semper got shafted. I know Stan Lee created Spider-man and everything, but he had NOTHING to do with the series and got all the credit for it.

Maybe they could do something with with FMA like they are doing with Hellsing now, apparently "more faithful to the manga" OVA's. Arakawa-sama can supervise them and maybe you guys will be quiet tongue.gif .

[QUOTE]
About the "manga purism"... I find that funny XDDDDD because they MADE me read the manga of FMA, I don't like mangas and I laugh when someone calls me "you are a manga freak" XDDDDD since they had to FORCE me read it (it took me a while untill I decided to do it XD). But now I'm really glad Dai made me read it ^^ (thank you, dai!!!). I'm more an anime freak in general, that's why I saw the anime first. And I thought it was good, taking the inconsistences away, because the story itself is really good and man, I LOVE drama XD. I didn't have seen any other anime like this, and it's great to see an anime where not all the main characters are youngsters or kids, so it really reached me, specially with Hughes' death and Nina's. In the second half.. I wasn't so interested and I noticed some things, but overall I thought "It's a great story". I would have changed some things, develope some points a little bit more and be carefull with other things, but that's my personal opinion.[/QUOTE]

You should be a lot more grateful to the anime and BONES then since without it you wouldn't even be reading the manga in the first place.

[QUOTE]I agree with this, about the soul transmutation, because after all, making a body without life, should be as easy as to make a puppet (well, not as easy, but, nothing to give in exchange as to request some parts of your body or even yourself)[/QUOTE]

The anime never established that transmutation of animals or plants was forbidden or taboo. Just humans. Its the same in the manga last time I checked, which also had transmuted animals.


[QUOTE]1)I agree.

I've been thinking about that since a couple of days ago, and the only explanation I can give is that while you can transmutate it into any form, you can keep transmutatin them so they have the movement effect. I mean, first, you transmutate the statue, and secondly, you break some points of it and transmutate another points and it makes their feet move. That way, it makes it to be something really difficult since it must be done really fast in order to the statue won't fall, and that would explain why cornello said "Even I with the PS can't move something that big". *shrugs*[/QUOTE]

You should ask Arakawa-dono, since she put it in the manga.

[QUOTE]But still, it isn't clapping. And anyways, a transmutation is something you control, right? I find odd the fact that he could make the water boil without realizing it.[/QUOTE]

Ed knew he needed to boil the water and was thinking about how. That's what he was willing to do. That's why it worked. Its not that hard to figure out. Sometimes you just have to stop trying to understand and just accept.


[QUOTE]True, but in next episodes he seems a "happy-happy" man, and in the next he appears again an a$$hole XD I found that odd too.[/QUOTE]

I know a ton of people like that. Like my older brother. Sometimes he's nice, other times he's an ornery a-hole and I don't want to be anywhere near him.

Ed's like this too. Sometimes he's a nice, kind, and mature beyond his years. Other times he acts like a spoiled brat. And other times he acts downright cold and harsh. Do you find Ed odd as well?

Hakuro's the same in the manga as well. In volume 3 which I just purchased he appears for the second time in the manga as an @$$hole.

It sounds like your real problem is with Arakawa-chan since she is the one that interpreted the character as such originally. Bones was just following her interpretation in the anime.

[QUOTE]According to BONES, the homunculus obtain a form and power after they eat the red stone, and we are shown how Dante (before she became Lyla) gave them to a hand and a deformed form (puaj! >.<). But... thinking about it, I hardly think that homunculus could stand since it even spited blood... (agh! let's stop thinking about this xDDD)[/QUOTE]

It didn't stand. At least not until it reached a form that resembled Ed and Al's mother.

[QUOTE]
18) When Ed wakes up in London, he has his automail back. WHY? Since he had his new complete body, which he gave in exchange after he started the transmutation of Al, his body should have been separated from his soul and mind inside the door (as exchange). Even if we ignore this fact, and imagine that it doesnít happen that way and he keeps himself all together, lets imagine that he, for some reason, while trying to go to London, loses his arm and leg again. It would be understandable that he appeared without the arm and the leg, but how did he get the automailed arm and leg, and connect them to his body? Did even Al give it in exchange for Edís transmutation? (so was it inside the door in the first place so Ed could take it when he gave himself as sacrifice?). But most important of all, since Edís armís automail got broken in episode 47 and he managed to somehow transmutate some kind of hand... if we look carefully the hand is not the same as the one Winry makes him: 1.- Edís transmutation has his fingers all in one piece while Winryís have all their articulations.
2.-Edís transmutation doesnít have the big screw and the two ones on each side of this that Winryís has.
So after we realize this... and look at the hand he has when he is in London... why the hell is it the same as Winryís fabrications?
[/QUOTE]

Even Ed doesn't understand it himself. He expected to die after his final transmutation. But for whatever reason, he ended up in back in our world, losing his arm and leg once again. Its fate.

It just shows that the forces of alchemy possibly have a will that goes beyond explainable fact and science, something Ed always stuck with and believed during the series.

Also, the prosthetics Ed has at the end are clearly NOT auto-mail and clearly NOT Winry's.


[QUOTE]19) Why does Edís automail fail in London? Why isnít he able to move it properly?[/QUOTE]

Cuz its not automail tongue.gif .

[QUOTE]I suppose they thought that Ed without Automail wasn't Ed, and it gives a continuity to the film and the show if they need a second part.

But in order for him to have the automail back when he was in london first: Al had had to give those automails in exchange to the door along with himself and the philosopher's stone (which I find quite unbelievable) so Ed could find them inside the door when he gave himself in exchange. [/QUOTE]

Why do you assume its the automail that Al gave to the gate? Why can't it just be something Ed fashioned himself? Ed is a genius and a scientist. I don't find it much of a stretch that he made his new prosthetics. But he's not Winry, so he obviously couldn't make something more useful like automail.

[QUOTE]
Secondly: After he gave himself in exchange, he needed to lose his current arm and leg inside of it. Something that I find quite nonsense since he could have fight for this arm and leg instead of the automail (which needs to be implated, and to do that, Ed needed the metallic part that joins the nervs with the automail already implated. So if he was able to still do that, he should be able to join his arm and leg, also, he would have to look for the automails in the door). So I can't find any explanation for this, at least logical.[/QUOTE]

Nope. As Ed says, "I was supposed to reaffix his soul to his body. But, before I realized it, I was in this world." He wasn't trying to fight anything. He was just trying to restore Al, and the gate sent him back to our world. Its THAT simple. He wasn't trying to fight for his arm and leg because he didn't care!
Dai
Well, I know most of this is for Reika, but I know she'll understand that I get a little fun XD

QUOTE(TheVileOne @ Sep 4 2005, 03:20 PM)
Stan Lee didn't have much to do with the Spider-man movies or the wonderful animated series from the 90's, but they still rocked.  In fact, on the DVD for the cartoons, the only guy that appears on them is Stan Lee.  He didn't work on the series AT ALL.  The real show-runner and series creator, John Semper got shafted.  I know Stan Lee created Spider-man and everything, but he had NOTHING to do with the series and got all the credit for it. 

how many times have we to say that american comics and / or movies are different from japanesse? XDDDDDDDD Marvel and its staff only want one thing, money, their movies are great movies but terrible adaptations, but I'm not going to enter in details because it is REAL offtopic.

QUOTE(TheVileOne @ Sep 4 2005, 03:20 PM)
Maybe they could do something with with FMA like they are doing with Hellsing now, apparently "more faithful to the manga" OVA's.  Arakawa-sama can supervise them and maybe you guys will be quiet tongue.gif .

weeeeeell... you know? we won't ^^, not jus because you think we should, there is reasons. First of all, even if they start to make great movies without fails... it don't mean the previous anime has fails, so we can talk about them even if they do things better ^^.

Second, I think you have a problem with us, really. You know? we don't want you to be quiet, we are here to discuss and talk about FMA, the goods and the bads. We want you to talk about anything you want ^^ (well, we'd like you say more than "hey, it is good because I like it and you are not right, I don't want to see the bad things so I'll close my eyes, cover my ears and start singing loud", but it is ok if you can't do better).

QUOTE
You should be a lot more grateful to the anime and BONES then since without it you wouldn't even be reading the manga in the first place.

wrong, as it was said early, if Bones had not made the anime, another of the millions of companies would have done it. There is better companies, and worse, but BONES is not the only one.

QUOTE
The anime never established that transmutation of animals or plants was forbidden or taboo.  Just humans.  Its the same in the manga last time I checked, which also had transmuted animals.

I'm not sure about this so I can't assure it, but I think there is time when they said "The transmutation of the flesh is forbidden"... flesh, animals have flesh. Did you remember when Neena was turned into a chimera? Ed was going to restaure her (she was almost an animal then) but Ed didn't do it because there is no way he really knows if it is going well... or like her mother's transmutation. But, it is not clear, so I think the anime's opinon it is a little confusse here.


QUOTE
Ed knew he needed to boil the water and was thinking about how.  That's what he was willing to do.  That's why it worked.  Its not that hard to figure out.  Sometimes you just have to stop trying to understand and just accept. 

I think something so difficult as alchemy needs a litle more than a "want it and then clap".

QUOTE
It sounds like your real problem is with Arakawa-chan since she is the one that interpreted the character as such originally.  Bones was just following her interpretation in the anime. 

oh man, Reika is going to have fun XD so I'll leave that to her.

QUOTE
Even Ed doesn't understand it himself.  He expected to die after his final transmutation.  But for whatever reason, he ended up in back in our world, losing his arm and leg once again.  Its fate. 

ok, there is a missunderstanding, you call fate what we call "bones super realism", you can call it the way you want, but Bones just make it up and let's us to understatn that sometimes, strange things happens? XD I think it is veeeeeeeeeery easy for them. "well, instead of explaining it, because we probably has no idea about the reason, let's going to be quiet and try to think that never happens" XD

QUOTE
Cuz its not automail tongue.gif .

what is it then? a puppet arm?

well, ... I have to study for my driver license exam, so I'll leave it here XD see you all later!

bye bye
TheVileOne
QUOTE(Dai @ Sep 4 2005, 03:05 PM)
Well, I know most of this is for Reika, but I know she'll understand that I get a little fun XD


how many times have we to say that american comics and / or movies are different from japanesse? XDDDDDDDD Marvel and its staff only want one thing, money, their movies are great movies but terrible adaptations, but I'm not going to enter in details because it is REAL offtopic.


The Spider-man movies are more faithful to the spirit of Stan Lee's comics moreso than the comics they publish now.

QUOTE
weeeeeell... you know? we won't ^^, not jus because you think we should, there is reasons. First of all, even if they start to make great movies without fails... it don't mean the previous anime has fails, so we can talk about them even if they do† things better ^^.


I'm saying, they make a new anime panel for panel of Arakawa's manga, little to no changes from start to finish.

QUOTE
Second, I think you have a problem with us, really. You know? we don't want you to be quiet, we are here to discuss and talk about FMA, the goods and the bads. We want you to talk about anything you want ^^ (well, we'd like you say more than "hey, it is good because I like it and you are not right, I don't want to see the bad things so I'll close my eyes, cover my ears and start singing loud", but it is ok if you can't do better).


Hey that's great. But if people are going to be downright disrespectful as I've seen, I'm going to say it.

QUOTE
I'm not sure about this so I can't assure it, but I think there is time when they said "The transmutation of the flesh is forbidden"... flesh, animals have flesh. Did you remember when Neena was turned into a chimera? Ed was going to restaure her (she was almost an animal then) but Ed didn't do it because there is no way he really knows if it is going well... or like her mother's transmutation. But, it is not clear, so I think the anime's opinon it is a little confusse here.


It is forbidden. Ed and Al wanted to restore her in the manga as well, but Al says, "I'm sorry but I don't have the skill to turn you back to normal right now."

QUOTE
I think something so difficult as alchemy needs a litle more than a "want it and then clap".


And yet that's what Ed does throughout the entire series and manga. Funny, huh?

QUOTE
oh man, Reika is going to have fun XD so I'll leave that to her.


Well I hope someone's having fun.

QUOTE
ok, there is a missunderstanding, you call fate what we call "bones super realism", you can call it the way you want, but Bones just make it up and let's us to understatn that sometimes, strange things happens? XD I think it is veeeeeeeeeery easy for them. "well, instead of explaining it, because we probably has no idea about the reason, let's going to be quiet and try to think that never happens" XD


I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Explaining the reasoning would be bad storytelling. Its symbolic to Ed because it finally proves to him that there are somethings that can't be explained through human words and science. Ed was a lot like you and always rejected the idea that things could not be explained or defined. He didn't like the idea of a great power beyond human control. At the end of the series he believes in it and finally accepts it. It was his will to give up his body and die in order to restore Al. Yet the forces of Alchemy did something different. You can call it Bones doesn't have any idea, but the person who has no idea is you.

QUOTE
what is it then? a puppet arm?


I guess that would be a way of putting it bluntly. I called it a prosthetic.
Reika

*siiiiiiiiiiiiiggggghhhhhh*... and the never ending discussion continues...

[quote=TheVileOne,Sep 4 2005, 03:20 PM]

Maybe they could do something with with FMA like they are doing with Hellsing now, apparently "more faithful to the manga" OVA's. Arakawa-sama can supervise them and maybe you guys will be quiet tongue.gif .[/quote]

This was stated by more than one person, but of cour, you just had to point it out from me, because you have such a... personal "thing" towards me and Dai that can't kept you in your terms.

You know, I think it's the.. 4th? time that I'm saying this: I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE CHANGES.

And YES, I would be more satisfied with the result, do you know why? 1)Because the first half, when they took the ideas, the storiline, the characters, the timing, and the idea itself, I was much more satisfied.
2)I'm much more satisfied with the manga than the anime.
3)I would kiss BONES if they did that.

[QUOTE]
You should be a lot more grateful to the anime and BONES then since without it you wouldn't even be reading the manga in the first place.[/quote]

Hellooooo????? The ANIME COMES from the manga. Do we have some trouble at understanding that the main story wasn't created by BONES? And it seems you didn't read my earlier posts, but I informed you all that:

The producer read the first volume of the manga (ALLREADY PUBLISHED), and in the second volume, they started to do the anime. You know, we don't own ANYTHING to BONES that concerns the manga. The own that should be more gratefull towards Arakawa is you, since if she didn't create the manga, forget about what you saw in the anime (and I mean EVERYTHING, the second half came after the ideas posted in the first half).

[QUOTE]I agree with this, about the soul transmutation, because after all, making a body without life, should be as easy as to make a puppet (well, not as easy, but, nothing to give in exchange as to request some parts of your body or even yourself)[/QUOTE]

The anime never established that transmutation of animals or plants was forbidden or taboo. Just humans. Its the same in the manga last time I checked, which also had transmuted animals.

What the hell are you talking about? That wasn't the point being discussed in the first place, but you had to point out any "weak" point you thought you found on either of my statements, right?
And the problem wasn't the animal transmutation, BUT THE ONE OF THE PLANTS.

"Whoa! Reika posted! oh! let's go to see what did she say and how can I call her stupid and ridiculize everything she says! yay! Today's gonna be a great day!" <--Sarcasm.

[QUOTE]
You should ask Arakawa-dono, since she put it in the manga. [/QUOTE]

Yes, that's the conclussion all of us made after discussing it.

[QUOTE]
Ed knew he needed to boil the water and was thinking about how. That's what he was willing to do. That's why it worked. Its not that hard to figure out. Sometimes you just have to stop trying to understand and just accept. [/QUOTE]

Prove what you are saying is right. Because while you thought that when Ed was told that the water was cold and he went to take it and suddenly the reaction was made, I thought "what? a transmutation out of nothing?". I don't know your episodes but... in the ones I have (the first ones, the ones shown in Japan's TVs) he joined his fist with his hand because he couldn't do a thing, and THEN he was told that the water was cold, so he went to take it and heat it. You know, there are things called "kitchens", where you can heat the water.

[QUOTE]
I know a ton of people like that. Like my older brother. Sometimes he's nice, other times he's an ornery a-hole and I don't want to be anywhere near him.

Ed's like this too. Sometimes he's a nice, kind, and mature beyond his years. Other times he acts like a spoiled brat. And other times he acts downright cold and harsh. Do you find Ed odd as well? [/QUOTE]

Yes, and I stated that in the document.

[QUOTE]It sounds like your real problem is with Arakawa-chan since she is the one that interpreted the character as such originally. Bones was just following her interpretation in the anime. [/QUOTE]

Sorry guy... you've been very bad informed... Arakawa didn't take part in the anime by own free will, buddy. The anime made whatever they pleased, and they started inventing the second half when they saw that they reached the manga and didn't have a base to continue on.

[QUOTE]
It didn't stand. At least not until it reached a form that resembled Ed and Al's mother.[/QUOTE]

It's simple though, Hohenheim "The homunculus obtain a form and powers after eating the red stone".

[QUOTE]
It just shows that the forces of alchemy possibly have a will that goes beyond explainable fact and science, something Ed always stuck with and believed during the series.

Also, the prosthetics Ed has at the end are clearly NOT auto-mail and clearly NOT Winry's. [/QUOTE]

First: Hohenheim: "When you die you come here" <-- They explained it.

Second: Ok, so it seems I just have to take pictures from the anime and the film and everything so you can see that it's the same. Ok, I'll do it when I go back home, because IT IS WINRY'S AUTOMAIL.


[QUOTE]
Cuz its not automail tongue.gif . [/QUOTE]

hahahah I wanna see your face when I show you the pictures ^^

[QUOTE]
Why do you assume its the automail that Al gave to the gate? Why can't it just be something Ed fashioned himself? Ed is a genius and a scientist. I don't find it much of a stretch that he made his new prosthetics. But he's not Winry, so he obviously couldn't make something more useful like automail. [/QUOTE]

Because it is and I can prove it??? and just that you know: in 1914-1920 didn't exist prothetics. Will I need to find the exact year for you on internet??? *sigh* tell me not, please.

[QUOTE]
Nope. As Ed says, "I was supposed to reaffix his soul to his body. But, before I realized it, I was in this world." He wasn't trying to fight anything. He was just trying to restore Al, and the gate sent him back to our world. Its THAT simple. He wasn't trying to fight for his arm and leg because he didn't care!
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[/quote]


And that's my point! Please, read what I say more than once, because you are the only one that doesn't understand what I write, or should I say that doesn't WANT to understand?

If he didn't fight nor anything, who the hell took that automail (YES AUTOMAIL) and put it in his body???

[QUOTE]At the end of the series he believes in it and finally accepts it. It was his will to give up his body and die in order to restore Al.[/QUOTE]

He was willing to that in the the first place.

[QUOTE]You can call it Bones doesn't have any idea, but the person who has no idea is you.
[/QUOTE]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd I find funny how everytime someone shows up and says "you are wrong" and we tell him "prove it", instead of doing it they just say "You don't have any idea. And I know more about FMA than you" But actually, you can't prove a single thing.

And yes, I'm really having fun with some of your posts, otherwise, I wouldn't bother to unswer you.

[QUOTE]And yet that's what Ed does throughout the entire series and manga. Funny, huh? [/QUOTE]

Hellooooooo???? It's explained how they need to understand what they are going to reconstruct, you know??????????????? Maybe you should see the anime again. Well, with the 1st episode and the first part would be enough.

[QUOTE]The Spider-man movies are more faithful to the spirit of Stan Lee's comics moreso than the comics they publish now.
[/QUOTE]

And????? Any kind of problem with the word "Off-topic"????

XDDD Did you notice I'm a little tired about this? Sorry if I went too far in any point.


Dai
Reika, I luv you XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

you have answer ALL and I have almost nothing to say! XDDDDDDDDDDD
DDDDDDDDDDDD

hey, I like the part you say about "when you can't probe you say 'I know more about FMA than you' " XD

I'm getting tired of this, really XDDDDDDDDD but you are right, if it was not funny, there is no reason to discuss so nonsenses XD

now I wonder why he writes in red... maybe he's turning red because or rage? XD
Reika
hahaha!! I "luv" you too!

It was probably because I was the one that stated all and he was trying to argue with me.

TheVileOne
[quote=Reika,Sep 4 2005, 05:22 PM]
*siiiiiiiiiiiiiggggghhhhhh*... and the never ending discussion continues...

This was stated by more than one person, but of cour, you just had to point it out from me, because you have such a... personal "thing" towards me and Dai that can't kept you in your terms.[/quote]

[quote]
You know, I think it's the.. 4th? time that I'm saying this: I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE CHANGES.[/quote]

You sure?

[quote]
And YES, I would be more satisfied with the result, do you know why? 1)Because the first half, when they took the ideas, the storiline, the characters, the timing, and the idea itself, I was much more satisfied.
2)I'm much more satisfied with the manga than the anime.
3)I would kiss BONES if they did that. [/quote]

I guess you do give a damn about the changes then tongue.gif .

[quote]
Hellooooo????? The ANIME COMES from the manga. Do we have some trouble at understanding that the main story wasn't created by BONES? And it seems you didn't read my earlier posts, but I informed you all that:[/quote]

Oh yeah I get that. I love the manga and the anime. Manga came first, anime second. But the anime still got YOU to read the manga.

[quote]
The producer read the first volume of the manga (ALLREADY PUBLISHED), and in the second volume, they started to do the anime. You know, we don't own ANYTHING to BONES that concerns the manga. The own that should be more gratefull towards Arakawa is you, since if she didn't create the manga, forget about what you saw in the anime (and I mean EVERYTHING, the second half came after the ideas posted in the first half).[/quote]

I am grateful towards Arakawa-sama. I am putting money in her pocket you know. What makes you think I don't? She created one of the most fantastic stories and groups of characters ever. She's a genius and her artwork is amazing. She's no slouch, and I wish half of today's mainstream comic creative people had her work ethic. So...what's your point?

[quote]What the hell are you talking about? That wasn't the point being discussed in the first place, but you had to point out any "weak" point you thought you found on either of my statements, right?
And the problem wasn't the animal transmutation, BUT THE ONE OF THE PLANTS.[/quote]

If they can do animals...why can't they do plants... huh.gif ? Not much of a stretch for me. I guess others forms of alchemy in the anime frightens you.

[quote]
Yes, that's the conclussion all of us made after discussing it.[/quote]

Well that's great. I just wanted to clarify, this problem you have (which I do not think is a problem by the way), is something Arakawa did in her FMA manga.

[quote]
Prove what you are saying is right. Because while you thought that when Ed was told that the water was cold and he went to take it and suddenly the reaction was made, I thought "what? a transmutation out of nothing?". I don't know your episodes but... in the ones I have (the first ones, the ones shown in Japan's TVs) he joined his fist with his hand because he couldn't do a thing, and THEN he was told that the water was cold, so he went to take it and heat it. You know, there are things called "kitchens", where you can heat the water.[/quote]

It was partly instinctual. At that time, he really wasn't sure what he was doing, and then later on is able to better control that new power. A power he inherently has after seeing the gate. And this happens in stories frequently. A hero has a power he doesn't know about and when its revealed its like, "Whoa...I can do this?"


[quote]
Sorry guy... you've been very bad informed... Arakawa didn't take part in the anime by own free will, buddy. The anime made whatever they pleased, and they started inventing the second half when they saw that they reached the manga and didn't have a base to continue on.[/quote]

It just seems a lot of the problems you are bringing up, are evident in the manga first and the anime second. When you see it in the anime, it was just them using the manga as the blueprint or starting point. Once again these are not problems I have with the manga or anime though. So I'm just trying to clarify things with you.

[quote]
It's simple though, Hohenheim "The homunculus obtain a form and powers after eating the red stone".[/quote]

Yeah, I get that.

[quote]
First: Hohenheim: "When you die you come here" <-- They explained it.[/quote]

And yet...Ed isn't dead.

[quote]
Second: Ok, so it seems I just have to take pictures from the anime and the film and everything so you can see that it's the same. Ok, I'll do it when I go back home, because IT IS WINRY'S AUTOMAIL.[/quote]

I've seen the pictures. And it doesn't look the same to me. It doesn't work like Winry's automail either.

[quote]
hahahah I wanna see your face when I show you the pictures ^^[/quote]

If you want to serve me a plate of crow, I'll eat it. Wouldn't be the first time.

[quote]
Because it is and I can prove it??? and just that you know: in 1914-1920 didn't exist prothetics. Will I need to find the exact year for you on internet??? *sigh* tell me not, please.[/quote]

Don't mind me, I saved you the trouble. http://inventors.about.com/library/invento...lprosthetic.htm
According to this link, prosthetics have existed through history going back to Egyptian times in the BC era. Know what that means slappy? OVER 2000 YEARS AGO!

[QUOTE]In 1529, French surgeon, Ambroise Pare (1510-1590) introduced amputation as a lifesaving measure in medicine. Soon after, Pare started developing prosthetic limbs in a scientific manner. In 1863, Dubois L Parmelee of New York City made an improvement to the attachment of artificial limbs. He fastened a body socket to the limb with atmospheric pressure. He was not the first person to do so, but he was the first person to do so with satisfactory results. In 1898, Dr. Vanghetti invented an artificial limb that could move with through muscle contraction. [/QUOTE]

How interesting...but...you said in 1914-1920 that prosthetics do not exist?! huh.gif Conundrum.

[quote]
If he didn't fight nor anything, who the hell took that automail (YES AUTOMAIL) and put it in his body???[/quote]

Don't know, don't care. I really don't think anybody did.

[quote]
He was willing to that in the the first place.[/quote]

In the first place he was just trying to bind Al's soul to the armor. And they just took his arm for that.

[quote]
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd I find funny how everytime someone shows up and says "you are wrong" and we tell him "prove it", instead of doing it they just say "You don't have any idea. And I know more about FMA than you" But actually, you can't prove a single thing.[/quote]

Well I did prove it. You are just too stubborn to overthink and overexplain everything.

[quote]
And yes, I'm really having fun with some of your posts, otherwise, I wouldn't bother to unswer you.[/quote]

Great, cause I'm having a ball.

[quote]
Hellooooooo???? It's explained how they need to understand what they are going to reconstruct, you know??????????????? Maybe you should see the anime again. Well, with the 1st episode and the first part would be enough.[/quote]

Yeah well I got those on DVD and just watched them recently, domo arigato.

[QUOTE]The Spider-man movies are more faithful to the spirit of Stan Lee's comics moreso than the comics they publish now.
[/QUOTE]

[quote]
And????? Any kind of problem with the word "Off-topic"????[/quote]

Nope. I have none.

[quote]
XDDD Did you notice I'm a little tired about this? Sorry if I went too far in any point.
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[/quote]
Didn't notice, because I thought you said you are having fun with this. Guess you are starting to "contradict" yourself, just like Bones animation.

[QUOTE]
hey, I like the part you say about "when you can't probe you say 'I know more about FMA than you' " XD[/QUOTE]

I like the part when you do XD and XDDDDDDDDD

[QUOTE]now I wonder why he writes in red... maybe he's turning red because or rage? XD[/QUOTE]

Not sure what's wrong with your computer, but I'm not writing in red. Where I am my text shows up as gray on the posts and the background is light-blue.
Dai
Well, I know most (almost all) of that is for Reika, and I don't want to add more work to her post, so I post just a litle XD

QUOTE(TheVileOne @ Sep 4 2005, 09:12 PM)
oh yeah I get that.  I love the manga and the anime.  Manga came first, anime second.  But the anime still got YOU to read the manga. 

Sorry, you're wrong, I started to read the manga almost a year before Reika start to watch the anime, and when I knew Reika was doing that, I almost force her to read the manga XD so I got her to read it, not Bones or the anime XD. She didn't want to, but I did it! XD


QUOTE
In 1529, French surgeon, Ambroise Pare (1510-1590) introduced amputation as a lifesaving measure in medicine. Soon after, Pare started developing prosthetic limbs in a scientific manner. In 1863, Dubois L Parmelee of New York City made an improvement to the attachment of artificial limbs. He fastened a body socket to the limb with atmospheric pressure. He was not the first person to do so, but he was the first person to do so with satisfactory results. In 1898, Dr. Vanghetti invented an artificial limb that could move with through muscle contraction.

Well, maybe that's my bad, because I missunderstand something about artificial limbs and the year. But back at the 1500 and 1600 year, artificial legs were just the typical "pirate wood leg"... I don't think that in World War I, the limbs were so perfect, but I could be wrong.

QUOTE
Don't know, don't care.  I really don't think anybody did. 

Again covering you from you don't want to see...

QUOTE
Well I did prove it.  You are just too stubborn to overthink and overexplain everything.

You have no proof, just an opinion based in what you know about the series, is that a proof or a theory which can or cannot be true? I ask.

QUOTE
Great, cause I'm having a ball

eeh... I'm having language problems here, a ball? what do you mean?

QUOTE
didn't notice, because I thought you said you are having fun with this.  Guess you are starting to "contradict" yourself, just like Bones animation.

You know? when you play... por example, football, you are having fun, but you still got tired, explain all of this and write all the documents, and discuss once and again is a effort too.

QUOTE
I like the part when you do XD and XDDDDDDDDD

And I like the part you show how unpolite you are and your mental age XD see? we are all having fun.

QUOTE
Not sure what's wrong with your computer, but I'm not writing in red.  Where I am my text shows up as gray on the posts and the background is light-blue.
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sorry about that, it was about Maes Hughes, not you, I mixed the nicks.
Stuart
Well, I think all of you is missing parts here, at least it is what I see.

The anime has lots of fails, I read the original document and (leaving apart the silly fails which Reika herself marked as silly... what I suppose "chorradina" means, according to a friend I have at Madrid) there is onle 4 or 5 of that "unanswered question" which have answers, and she admit it.

The anime, again, has fails, and we should admit it, lots of them, it ussually happens when the anime starts its own way and not follows the manga's way.

I think you, the Vile One, are the last one which should call Reika stubborn, because you are the most stubborn here, and Dai's explanation about you covering yourself from you don't want to see something... I think he's right, at leats it is what you are showing here.

Even Bones admited the fist thing was a fail... and you still say it isn't, this time it's my turn to say there is a more important group of persons above you that knows a lot more about FMA, Bones itself. If they say it is a fail... it is.
TheVileOne
QUOTE(Dai @ Sep 4 2005, 08:56 PM)
Well, I know most (almost all) of that is for Reika, and I don't want to add more work to her post, so I post just a litle XD

Sorry, you're wrong, I started to read the manga almost a year before Reika start to watch the anime, and when I knew Reika was doing that, I almost force her to read the manga XD so I got her to read it, not Bones or the anime XD. She didn't want to, but I did it! XD


Sorry, I was just going by what she said.

QUOTE
Well, maybe that's my bad, because I missunderstand something about artificial limbs and the year. But back at the 1500 and 1600 year, artificial legs were just the typical "pirate wood  leg"... I don't think that in World War I, the limbs were so perfect, but I could be wrong.


Well the argument is, "THERE WERE NO PROSTHETIC LIMBS AT THIS TIME" when there were.

Also, I think Ed had a hand in making them. Seeing as to how in the movie they even have a flesh like covering. Something which certainly wasn't around in WWI.

QUOTE
You have no proof, just an opinion based in what you know about the series, is that a proof or a theory which can  or cannot be true? I ask.


At least I'm thinking about competent theories and answers unlike some people who just say, "Oh they can't explain it, so its crap and they don't know anything." You are the ones focusing on the negative.

QUOTE
eeh... I'm having  language problems here, a ball? what do you mean?


Its an expression for saying, "I'm having a lot of fun."

QUOTE
You know? when you play... por example, football, you are having fun, but you still got tired, explain all of this and write all the documents, and discuss once and again is a effort too.


You cannot obtain anything without giving something of equal value.

QUOTE
sorry about that, it was about Maes Hughes, not you, I mixed the nicks.
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domo. biggrin.gif
Reika
[quote=TheVileOne,Sep 4 2005, 09:12 PM]
I guess you do give a damn about the changes then tongue.gif .[/QUOTE]

My dear friend, TheVileOne, tsk tsk tsk... Man... I'm going to assume you don't understand what I say because of my lack of experience at writing in English. (yes, this is the first english forum I'm in). You know?? I said that because Arakawa wouldn't allow such "unanswered questions" nor "low developed characters". Why do I think that? Just read the manga.

[quote]
Oh yeah I get that. I love the manga and the anime. Manga came first, anime second. But the anime still got YOU to read the manga. [/QUOTE]

Dai already answered to this. Please~ stop putting words and facts in my life that didn't happen~
[quote=Dai, message from him]yeah, please[/quote]

[quote]
I am grateful towards Arakawa-sama. I am putting money in her pocket you know. What makes you think I don't? She created one of the most fantastic stories and groups of characters ever. She's a genius and her artwork is amazing. She's no slouch, and I wish half of today's mainstream comic creative people had her work ethic. So...what's your point?[/quote]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD XDDDD (this XD are dedicated to you *kiss*), It was a side comment, the point of my comment was another one. But I won't tell you~ XD You'll have to figure it out yourself ^^

[quote]
If they can do animals...why can't they do plants... huh.gif ? Not much of a stretch for me. I guess others forms of alchemy in the anime frightens you.[/quote]

Man... I'm not saying of mixing them, but transmutating, which is different. And yeah, I'm frightened, that's why I'm rewatching the anime with some friend XD (<--Sarcasm)

[quote]
Well that's great. I just wanted to clarify, this problem you have (which I do not think is a problem by the way), is something Arakawa did in her FMA manga. [/quote]

Yeeeeees... Aaaaand???? XDDD Did you even notice that Keos and I were talking about both, manga and anime???? I don't think so~

[quote]
It was partly instinctual. At that time, he really wasn't sure what he was doing, and then later on is able to better control that new power. A power he inherently has after seeing the gate. And this happens in stories frequently. A hero has a power he doesn't know about and when its revealed its like, "Whoa...I can do this?" [/quote]

still, a theory.


[quote]
It just seems a lot of the problems you are bringing up, are evident in the manga first and the anime second. When you see it in the anime, it was just them using the manga as the blueprint or starting point. Once again these are not problems I have with the manga or anime though. So I'm just trying to clarify things with you.[/quote]

hahaha, then you didn't understand the problems one bit.

You trying to clarify things? Ok, this is a question to the readers of the topic:
Poll: After reading the posts of TheVileOne, which impression did they give you? (Be objective, please)
Choose:
A) He was trying to clarify things as well as posible.
B ) He was trying to make all of us believe that his opinion is right and that BONES' work was great.

I choose B.

[quote]
And yet...Ed isn't dead. [/quote]

See? Another inconsistence, thanks.

[quote]
I've seen the pictures. And it doesn't look the same to me. It doesn't work like Winry's automail either. [/quote]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD I didn't put any picture yet. see? you just want to say black if I say white. pffff, gods...

Here you have the picies (NOW I POST THEM):

http://es.geocities.com/aahboba/movie.pdf

[quote]http://inventors.about.com/library/invento...lprosthetic.htm
According to this link, prosthetics have existed through history going back to Egyptian times in the BC era. Know what that means slappy? OVER 2000 YEARS AGO! [/quote]

Dai already answered to this. Even today the prosthetics aren't so advanced, take a look:

http://www.armdynamics.com/spanish/utaharm.gif

And anyways, it IS winry's automail.

[quote]
Don't know, don't care. I really don't think anybody did. [/quote] = I don't want to hear what you say because I can't argue it, so I don't care about it, but I still come here to say how wrong you are about EVERYTHING, even what you like and what made you read the manga.

And... WE cared.

[quote]
In the first place he was just trying to bind Al's soul to the armor. And they just took his arm for that.

Ha! You say "I give you even my heart, but bring my brother back!" and you don't want to give yourself as sacrifice??? You know, without heart, no life~[/quote]

[quote]
Well I did prove it. You are just too stubborn to overthink and overexplain everything.[/quote]

XDDDDD And HE calls me stubborn... the one that was discussing me a mistake that even BONES saw as a mistake and changed it, and saying that we were wrong, that he didn't really care, and that we didn't know anything, that it wasn't a mistake etc etc etc.

You proved it???? Theories, perhaps, maybes.... <-- Yeah, maybe I can fly, let's try. Ops! it seems not.

Guessing never proved anything.

[quote]
Great, cause I'm having a ball.[/quote]

Oh, and you were the one that said "At least somone is having fun", I understand now why do you like so much the contradictions of BONES...

[quote]
Yeah well I got those on DVD and just watched them recently, domo arigato.[/quote]

oh! so you got the fixed version! Now I understand why you said something weren't mistakes and so...

[quote]
Didn't notice, because I thought you said you are having fun with this. Guess you are starting to "contradict" yourself, just like Bones animation.[/quote]

Do you know how tired I am when I laugh? and when I play baseball I have fun, but I get tired, you know? BTW, I was getting tired during the post and not the discussion itself.

And see? it wasn't that hard. Bones did contradict itself.
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