Okay, so I've watched the entire series (season one on adultswim and season two via online) and noticed the radical change in direction the series takes in season two. If you don't realize that, then think of the crazy ending the series has.

Then I've read the intro one of the original production managers wrote for the latest dvd volume released yesterday. He said that the anime series ran ahead of the actual manga, and the second half WAS NOT written by Hiromu, but by their story editor.

He also went on to say that they really went crazy in fabricating the second season ("writing to his heart's content" is roughly what he said).


So this got me thinking. If they disregarded the story written by the original author, then that could explain why the second season seems so convoluted and bizarre. (And if you don't agree, just think of the crazy ideas introduced in the 2nd season: Dante and Hoenhim and their "immortality," the gate and what's on the other side, Scar and his plunge into instanity, the philosopher stone becoming real, and the fates of the Elrich boys, are all very new and were not hinted at in the first season.)

Now it will be a VERY long time before the manga is fully released in American, so I dont know if Hiromu wrote a different ending, but what do you think? I think they did a very wrong thing in writing the second half.


okay did i stir enough of you up?

Arguements can be fun if everyone supports their reasoning. ^-^

Now, I love both the manga and the anime, which I have seen the whole anime and read all the manga scanlations up to this point. It seems obvious where the point is in which the manga and the anime differ greatly. Personally, I loved season 2 of the anime. That's what made me love the series! I think it was a little strange the way things worked in the second season, but I thought it was well thought out and made the series a WHOLE lot better. I don't like cliche endings where the characters have their happy endings, and though the ending was sad and unexpected, it made room for you to continue their stories. (But that gets into the movie and I don't want to spoil myself ) I loved the ending, even if it was ironic in a way. I guess I like anime that has unexpected plot twists and makes you cry even. (Hey! I cried!)

And, even if Arakawa-sensei didn't do the second season, her manga has been just as good, just different. Guess I love FMA all around.

But the answer is no! I don't think they made a big mistake! And the reason they changed the second season is because they were releasing the manga at the same time as the series in Japan and they needed different stories.

Actually Hiromu Arakawa had no hand in the anime. The anime's scriptwriter only used her manga as a reference for the first half of the anime(and a bit for the second). The anime's story is controlled by BONES' staff. Yes, it is a big mistake of BONES in my opinion since it diverted greatly from the original spirit of FMA, turning it into a stupid illogical weepy soapfest. They could have came up with another better adapted storyline than the one shown.

that was my thought.

Personally I like most of season two. The thing I could not handle the most, though, was the parallel worlds. Being used to crappy sci-fi shows in america, I was disappointed to see such a cliched element brought into FMA, especially since it was so out of the blue. it was never refered to in the series.

My beef is with mostly the last two episodes, when all the crap hits the fan. Beyond that it was apparent that there were some continuity issues with season two and season one.

For instance, in an early episode, Envy says he doesn't remember what his original form was, yet in the end he not only knows it, but remembers his history. And that is just one little one (although I admit there are not a lot of continuity problems).

I am hoping everything is resolved in the movie, but am not completely optimistic. I'll just have to wait about year before i get to see it!

Whatever. I like that they went in a different direction. It just makes our reading and enjoyment of the manga that much better. We know its going to end differently, so I want to see how they do it.

The guys who did the series had to do it that way since they couldn't wait for Arakawa-san to finish the manga. Same thing for Trigun, which Nightow didn't even finish. And I still think the Trigun anime is superior to the manga.

With the Fullmetal Alchemist series and movie, we have one complete brilliant piece of work, I like it that way.

I knew they did the second part of the series without any kind of help or refference from Arakawa (except Kimbley) and stuff because there are too much changes. Not just in storyline, but in personalities too.

For instance, Roy suddenly starts to act like he was the father of Edward. He's always been worried about him (and it's more shown in the manga than the anime) but he started acting more like that, and much less "hey, chibi" on the other half. Also, I noticed they centered the story more in the relationship of the brothers and their father (making their father as if he wasn't bad, but someone that admited he was wrong and loved their children, dadicating him just a few episodes) and the Ishbal war (now repeting on Lior) than in finding a way to change their bodies back, homunculus propose etc.

What I didn't like about this other half is the fact that they needed to add characters that shouldn't be there, I mean, 2ndary characters that showed their face in the first episodes and didn't have anything important to do but show the beginning, in order to be able to continue and give an ending: Roze, Lyla etc.

I didn't like either the Roze/Ed that there's in the last episodes. Specially in the last 2. When Dante said "I understand why he fell for you" I was like "huh???!", and when Ed seems so important to her, as if they were really in love I was like "when did that happen??? when Ed tried to convince her her boyfriend wasn't going to live never again and she looked at him with hate and pain? Or when Roze said that she didn't understand him when he said she needed to keep walking??".

I recall BONES saying "We may not make Winry appear in the movie because she didn't give much to the anime", and I was like "WTF?!", because THEY did make more important Roze in the last episodes, adding Ed/Roze, while they could have change that and add more protagonism to Winry, and more Winry/Ed.

Another idea that,for me, could have been better was the idea of Roy having killed winry's parents. This idea isn't from the other half, but from before, but what bothers me is in the other half, I think the idea itself was good. Episode 43: Winry's continuesly looking bad at Roy, with pain in her eyes and asks him "Answear me! Is this the same as when you killed my parents?!", we are continuesly seeing how she's worried about Ed and how she links that to their parents. (Same impression gave me Shiezska with her continous "and what if you discover anything? (Episode 44)" and "You don't care about anything but raising in the military"), but then in episode 44: Shiezska "I've been all this time wrong about him, I thought he didn't care about Hughes" Winry "I will become... the most respected man of this country. He promised that. that's why he can't do anything with the hatred impulse. He's an adult". And I ask "When did we see that radical change of actitude?

Same happens with Ed and Roy, I think their relationship's always been "you are starting to really annoy me~" but there's a way between that and "I hate him to death", which doesn't seem as hard as that when you see how they treat each other in other episodes but 44. It really surprised me and I couldn't agree with that.

And there are some more things, not to say the mistakes they made, forgetting some things, and holes (which I'll state in another thread ("Do you hate what BONES did to FMA?"), that make me don't like this other half.

(But what really really bothers me is that they said they would show things in the movie they don't show!!!!! >.<)

In conclusion, what's for me this other half of the series?: I think it's a poor written script, with some good ideas that could have been better developed. They tried to add too much drama without considering some important facts and made it seem rushed because of that and the continuous trying to surprise us in just 25 episodes, making it look as if they took it out under their sleeve in one moment as they were making the animation.
Also, after reading the manga, it gives me the feeling that they tried to end something that was just the beginning, and that they couldn't make a really deep plot in this other half, forgetting the storiline of the first half and leaving it aside and having the need to put secondary characters instead of original ones with their own story.

My personal opinion is that they could have made a stop in the series of a year and then continue with the anime with the manga as support. Or at least consult Arakawa more often, although I have an omake where she said "You are the ones releasing this, not me".

The anime has a lot of continutity problems, I'm not contesting that all. And the story was weak in a few spots, but it gave us something to look after, concepts to argue about, to develop on our own. And let's not forget that Arakawa-san has yet to finish her masterpiece, which is what we're all really after anyways. And that she already has the ending all planned out, though she hasn't revealed it to us yet.

After reading all the online mangas and spoilers of the anime series at my disposal, I must admit that I like the manga much better. It really seems much more coherent as a whole and exists as a world of its own. It's a completely alternate reality you can immerse yourself in, but the anime's connection to our mundane reality breaks the illusion and reminds you that none of what you're watching it actually real. Another problem I have with the anime is that the focus is mainly on Edward. I know he's the main character and his name is in the title, but he just wouldn't be Ed without Al. And though he's an important character Alphonse tends to have a more passive role then his loud, confident brother. The manga is like this too but isn't quite the same. Al is definitely gaining more confidence in himself and his alchemy skills are improving. He often takes charge when Ed isn't around, and in one funny scene Ed worries that Al is surpassing him! Speaking of characters, although there have been some new ones brought in they don't take too much attention away from the main cast. Arakawa-sensei takes time to develop the new guys but does not forget the major characters and their relationships. Maybe once I actually watch all the anime episodes I'll come to appreciate as a separate story in itself, but for the time being i find the manga to be superior in quality and content.

I totally agree with this TheVileOne. I like that they went in a different direction. Like just look at some of the differences and the manga comes out as being the more in depth emotionally. That last line in particular, now having seen the movie I have to say, "With the Fullmetal Alchemist series and movie, we have one complete brilliant piece of work, I like it that way." I like it that way indeed.



I agree with you too especially about the focus being more on Ed in the anime, he needs Al, he is his reason for living and breathing. You put it nicely about how manga Al is different then in the anime was something I identified with just from the manga of it I've read. I've seen all eps and spoiled myself by seeing the movie too. Increidble stuff FMA. Will need to start collecting the manga. Great reply, thought you should know someone agreed with you.

Thanks, Pamster!

I agree with you Antimony. I think they tried to make us, the audience, so into the story and conected with the characters on them that they had to "break the fantasy" and invented the london idea, made Ed and Al stay in our world, etc.

I just discovered this review of the FMA anime which points out a lot of continuity problems and compares it to the manga. It's an interesting read if you don't mind all the profanity.

Rossman Ratings and Reviews

WHOA talk about profanity! You weren't kidding Antimony! But all in all it was a good read. I get the jist that they didn't like the second half of the series and that's cool. I just wish they (Bones) had not gone with the alter world beyond the gate thing. But I guess by then they had thoughts on the movie in mind maybe? Who knows. Interesting read I'll say that much. LOL!

I read it. Just more bitter and nonsensical whining to me.

They just can't accept any changes or deviation from the manga. So they must hate Trigun as well which is vastly different from Nightow's manga in many places.

I don't think they were complaining about how the anime was different from the manga, it was because the storytelling in the anime was inconsistent. And I don't know if they've seen Trigun or not since there's no review for it on the site.

Its just semantics. Everything seemed consistent to me.

Like the thing with Trisha. The guy's whining about how his 3 yo nephew assumed that the homunculi killed Mother Elric.

Well the series never spelled it out but left it to interpretation, and I think that's fine. One can make the argument that perhaps Dante had something to do with her death. I like to think she just got sick and passed on out of some disease that either wasn't diagnosed and/or the combination of her depression after Hohenheim left. It made for great conflict and drama between Ed and his father that's overcome in the end and Ed learns the anger for his father was misplaced. Its just one of the many ways Ed's pride and ego gets the best of him

Virtually every anime ever made is gonna have some continuity problems, because unlike manga, there are a lot of different writers at work, and they all have different ideas about the direction the story should go. To complain about a few minor inconsistensies in FMA is pretty pedantic, as far as I'm concerned.

That said, I think the anime has one major aspect going for it over the manga: NO EVER-SO-PREDICTABLE ED X WIN MUSHINESS!

I agree TheVileOne. I don't think Dante had anythiing to do with Trisha's death, she didn't seem to know where Hoenhiem had been when they met up later...And agreed on the way that her death (Trisha's) could be a combo of depression and disease. It really did add to the drama of the angst between Ed and his father when they met up...

I think there's a clear implication, if you go back and watch one of the later episodes, that Dante WAS responsible for Trisha's illness. But that's pretty irrelevant.

When rewatching the series my interpertation (in an attempt to shrug off the plot hole) was that Envy didn't WANT to remember his old form. He hates his original form because it resembles the one man he despises the most. So I just told myself that he was lying when he shrugged and said "I don't remember!" it's because he doesn't want to.

I think that when someone doesn't make sense we use to try to come up into conclussion that are not clear and much less confirmed, although it's a possible theory.

That's what I came up with also.
True or not, it's kind of understandable that way.

It makes perfect sense that Envy would've lied about that. Since deception seems to be Envy's business.

I had this argument with someone a long time ago. It's pretty obvious that Envy was just plain lying.

Of course, this was one of the early scenes that coincided with the manga, and of course, Envy did show his 'true form' in the manga recently, as well, and it was something completely different.

Why didn't Bones just follow the manga instead of going off on their own? Did they just want it over and done with or something? =_=

Okay...



Okay, why is this wrong? They'd known each other for four years, and they were fighting on the same side all along. It's only natural that Roy would worry about Ed in some way. It's nothing fatherly at all, if you pay close attention. Roy takes charge like a commander who doesn't want to lose a valuable soldier.



Okay, so how is this a continuity problem?


Remember that Dante is pretty much deranged. And she doesn't know the real extent of Rose/Ed's relationship.



Women are attracted to charisma. Ed was at his most charismatic when Rose first encountered him. He was pretty much the strongest man that she knew, so it's pretty logical that she'd be attracted to him.



It's true. Winry was pretty useless in the anime.



This is retarded logic. Why does there need to be Winry/Ed? To satisfy your fangirlism? There's nothing at any point in the first half of the anime to suggest a romantic relationship between the two. Having them suddenly fall in love and start making babies towards the end would've made a lot less sense than Ed/Rose.



So you thought it would be better if she kept on hatin'? That's pretty shallow. People can change attitudes pretty easily if they think more thoroughly about circumstances. Roy acted on orders when he killed Winry's parents. He was weak back then. Winry saw firsthand his speech about wanting to change the face of the military, and put 2 and 2 together, and concluded that she can't hate him for what he did 8 years earlier. Just because you're not smart enough to wrap your head around this doesn't mean that she can't also be.



You're pretty damn shallow, aren't you?


My conclusion is that yours was a poorly thought out rant full of half-baked ideas that added up to little more than an immature viewer who was dissatisfied when she got a nuanced plot after expecting a straightforward one all along.


To piss off people like you.

Another ignorant manga purist.

Bones had to make 51 episodes at the time, and Arakawa wasn't even half-way finished with the manga. So they had to make make amendments and go in their own direction.

THE EXACT SAME THING happened with the Trigun anime. Nightow was not even finished with the manga while the anime was being produced, so the anime had to take liberties and go with their own direction for the story since they had only 26 episodes.

I love that they are different since now that the series is finished, when you read the manga you get a different story and a different ending. This makes it both unpredictable and exciting.

Why people complain about trivial crap like this I can't understand.

I doubt there will be another anime series along soon that will be as masterful, beautiful, and emotional as Fullmetal Alchemist.

[quote post='297300' date='Oct 8 2005, 04:39 AM' name='A Song of Storm and Fire']
Why didn't Bones just follow the manga instead of going off on their own? Did they just want it over and done with or something? =_=
[/quote]
To piss off people like you.
[/quote]

Figures. But I'm not pissed, just curious to why they wrote the anime that way. I rather like the convenience of reading two versions of the same basic story.

I already explained.

Anime = finished

Manga = NOT finished

I tried to make it very simple .

Thank you for being rude about it. I'm not some "ignorant manga purist". Honestly people, are your soul existances based on putting people down in your own fashions? I was not complaining. Maybe you shouldn't assume? I was reading posts with people talking about "oh Bones messed up the anime" blah blah blah. Must I spell it out for you that I like how the anime was written and the differences between it and the manga? I think I already mentioned that.

Although I do think the manga is much better than the anime I did enjoy the anime right up to the end (though I do have some problems with the movie). I am also glad that the anime didn't follow the manga exactly because then the series would have been overrun by filler and I have no tolerance for filler.

I also missed any indication that Dante was responsible for Trisha's death. Can someone let me know where this occured in the series?

I thought the 2nd half was okay, same with the movie. I still think after finishing the anime and movie that they centered on the "humans are cruel" topic way to much. The gradual change in characters was too much to handle with 25 episodes before hand building the characters up.
I also saw it this way

Anime = bad things happened to everyone
Movie = good things shoulda happened to everyone

Equivalent Exchange. too bad it didnt turn out like that, thats okay.

I have to admit near the ending episodes were rather unexpected but hopefully the manga can clear up things more. Personally much as I like the more "emotional" focus of the Elric Brothers I can't help but find it boring at times.

I like FMA up until the end. I thought it had a good ending, but I have yet to actually finish the Manga (getting there ).

The end of it satisfied me....and now I move onto the Manga!!

http://www.therossman.com/rrr/anime/fullmetalalchemist.html

Whoever posted that on page one, thanks, because that was some funnnnnnnnnnnnnnnyyyyyy stuff.

Anyway, I basically said what I had to say in the " Did you hate what BONES did to FMA " thread.

Anyone care to take a trip to EMO FEST! 2005 in which the headline showing is FMA while the headliner band is My Chemical Romance?

I kid, I kid.

God I fail at sarcasm.

whoever wrote that (the article) in my opinion is half-delusional or crazy. Anyone who curses THAT much, even if we are arguing on the same side, is crazy and immature

How are those plot holes? Arakawa never said Envy can never do that.
Either you have no idea of what a discontinuity is, or you are biased up to your neck in anime bullshit.

There's no plothole that can be said it is when the manga's not finished yet.

I can't help but laugh at 'critiques' which eschew critical thinking in favor of carping over plot points that simply don't sit well with the writer[s].

Its not a plot hole, as you guys completely and utterly missed the sarcasm noted by the .

The reason I said it because it was people like Reika who were complaining when Envy did the EXACT SAME THING in the anime and said it wasn't possible for Envy to do this or some BS.



Exactly.

Most of these plotholes and essays are not legitimate. Its just complaints and opinions really.

Jeeze why can't anyone ever debate a topic without putting someone or something down?

Anyway even though there was some discontinuity in the way BONES completed the anime I still enjoyed it immensely. Like other people have said here before sometimes an anime that's based on a manga is made before the manga is finished so you have to make an ending up that will most likely be different from the manga author's. Examples of this of course if Trigun which ultimately was a good anime and then you have animes like DNAngel which if compared to the anime version of FMA is the biggest load of rubbish ever the whole way through the only things that are the same there is the fact that the Niwa family male genes carry Dark. However I digress.

I actually have a hard time liking anime that is completely the same as the manga its derived from except for a few special circumstances (Bleach for instance since it stays really close to its manga form). This is because you're just watching the same story unfold in a different medium. Boring! The fact that we've seen the FMA anime unfold in one way and then we'll get to see manga unfold in a completely different way is both exciting and interesting and keeps the love for the series as a whole going long after the anime has ended. Think about this in Japan the anime has ended and they now have the movie you'd think there'd be nothing left for FMA there except for video games and the digression of the fan community over time. But wait there's manga to look forward to there as well and so the FMA love and fan community continues to grow and flourish.

For me I say as long as the following statement can hold true then I'm happy no matter how the series ends in any one of its mediums.

Long Live Fullmetal Alchemist!!!

EXACTLY harmony. That's what I'm constantly saying about the manga. I love that they are divergent since it gives me more incentive to buy and keep reading the manga since I haven't seen how it ends yet!

I don't understand why no one else sees this.

I also think Madhouse did a much better job turning Trigun into one complete anime series than Nigthow's manga. Nightow's manga is good and it fleshes certain things out more...but its a lot slower and he NEVER finished it. At least with the anime we got a complete story.

1)TheVileOne: stop saying things that didn't happen, or at least learn your language, which ever is your problem. "Complain" because it is a mistake it's not the same as "they said they were plotholes". And you know that complain was just for you, my love.
2)Of course noone can discuss anything without putting something/one down. Try saying "I don't like the anime", let's see how much you last.

Thank you for pointing out that you were being sarcastic. However I wasn't asking you for a sarcastic reply, I was looking for a genuine one. In another post you said that the manga has plot holes that you can drive a truck through so I was just interested to know what these plot holes are that you see in the manga. Perhaps you were also being sarcastic with this comment as well?

Yeah, I agree, I want to know too.

i dont get.......

if envy can morph himself into the form of other humans why cant he morph his own hand into a sharp object??

that would be the limitation of his powers. he can mimick others he has seen, but can't change the shape of his body into forms other than that of a normal human.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo