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lialiakicks
Hiromu-sama seems to have read a book called The Picture Book of Devils, Demons and Witchcraft by Ernst and Johanna Lehner. In this book, it describes the punishments of the Seven Deadly Sins. And what's awesome is that what is described in this book follows the manga storyline!

Sin Punishment in Hell
1) Pride- broken on the wheel
2) Envy- put in freezing water
3) Wrath- dismembered alive
4) Sloth- thrown in snake pits
5) Greed- put in cauldrons of boiling oil
6) Gluttony- forced to eat rats, toads, and snakes
7) Lust- smothered in fire and brimstone

MANGA SPOILERS!!!
For #5, Greed was put in boiling er, stuff, and was put in a wine bottle!
For #7, Lust was burnt over and over by Roy Mustang!
Sensenic
Yo, read first, write later. This question was already in some other thread, don't remember which one now.

Sorry for being rude, but that's what it is. smile.gif
Saturn Stars
But this is more clear and straight to the point for people who just want to read a small amount instead of wading through all that crap that was in the other topic.
Keos
Yeah, very true. I think Arakawa-sama has done a great job subtly incorporating all those deaths and making them seem so natural. What will be interesting to see would be Wrath's death.... mm... spectacular stuff. Don't really know what Pride's death mean.... tying him down and pulling him in either directions by wheels? :S
anime_manga_fan
Hm... Interesting...

Kinda interested of the Envy death. He's my fav. Sin! T_T
Saturn Stars
QUOTE(Keos @ Jul 27 2005, 05:21 PM)
Yeah, very true.  I think Arakawa-sama has done a great job subtly incorporating all those deaths and making them seem so natural.  What will be interesting to see would be Wrath's death.... mm... spectacular stuff.  Don't really know what Pride's death mean.... tying him down and pulling him in either directions by wheels? :S
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Yeah, basically that means that if it's going to pull him in seperate directions then he is going to stretch and eventually split.
anime_manga_fan
QUOTE(Saturn Stars @ Jul 27 2005, 02:31 PM)
QUOTE(Keos @ Jul 27 2005, 05:21 PM)
Yeah, very true.  I think Arakawa-sama has done a great job subtly incorporating all those deaths and making them seem so natural.  What will be interesting to see would be Wrath's death.... mm... spectacular stuff.  Don't really know what Pride's death mean.... tying him down and pulling him in either directions by wheels? :S
[snapback]228506[/snapback]



Yeah, basically that means that if it's going to pull him in seperate directions then he is going to stretch and eventually split.
[snapback]229025[/snapback]



Isn't that like a torture chamber kinda thing?
Keos
Sounds gruesome biggrin.gif I'm looking forward to it XD (I'm evil.... *sigh)
lialiakicks
Thank GOD for you Saturn Stars! *hugs*

Woah, you peeps are EVIL. O_< (Well then again, so am I. *evil grin*)

oh, and Sensenic... If I honestly knew about that, then I wouldn't have posted this. >_>
Saturn Stars
QUOTE(lialiakicks @ Jul 28 2005, 09:26 AM)
Thank GOD for you Saturn Stars! *hugs*

Woah, you peeps are EVIL. O_< (Well then again, so am I. *evil grin*)

oh, and Sensenic... If I honestly knew about that, then I wouldn't have posted this. >_>
[snapback]229217[/snapback]



Don't worry about it hun. It was a great post, had pretty coloured titles and everything!

He he, it does sound gruesome, I wonder how she is going to eventually work with all that. But I don't think that the deaths of the two already are just coincidences!
carla
envy's death seems rather... tame, compared to the others. i don't think it really fits him. well, i know it's what we're taught is the punishment for being envious, i just don't think it goes well with envy as a character unsure.gif

and do you guys think that eating rats, toads and snakes would be enough to kill gluttony? with the kind of things that guy's eaten... and people DO eat rats and snakes and toads in some places... blink.gif maybe something else might do the trick... like acid, or something really toxic, that might work tongue.gif as long as he dies through his stomach, i think...
Zyric
/me thinks back to the stoned cheetah scene in that Harold and Kumar movie

What if Gluttony ends up licking those toads the secrete halucenogens and he mellows out and him, Ed, Al, and Ling have chillout party around the table? Nah.


laugh.gif d00d! That would be awesome though!
Senefen
I've heard of those punishments before. I could be wrong but I think it's from a book or painting called Dante's Inferno. Something like that, its "classic" so to speak, meaning it was written a long time ago by some guy (most likely greek and a philsopher) *shrug* will look it up on wikipedia.org later maybe.

But yes, for now their deaths have matched.
AA battery
*holds up hands* I drank snake soup before cuz my mom said it's good for me and I didn't die from it, so I doubt Gluttony will xD
carla
because i'm a geek... (all info from wikipedia)--

actually, the sins and their punishments are referenced even before the lehners' picture book, in dante's "the divine comedy," in the second cantica, "purgatory." virgil guides dante through the seven terraces of purgatory, in which the seven sins are being, of course, purged. dante's punishments are totally different than the lehners', though. except the punishment for lust, which is pretty much the same thing.

Terrace 1: Pride, by carrying a heavy weight tied around the neck that disables the wearer from standing up straight.

Terrace 2: Envy, by having one's eyes sewn shut, and wearing clothing that makes the soul indistinguishable from the ground.

Terrace 3: Wrath, by walking around in acrid smoke.

Terrace 4: Sloth, by continually running.

Terrace 5: Avarice, by lying face-down on the ground.

Terrace 6: Gluttony, by abstaining from any food or drink.

Terrace 7: Lust, by burning in an immense wall of flames.

i think these fit the sins themselves better (gotta laugh @ sloth's punishment)-- but they're pretty useless to arakawa if she plans to kill the homunculi this way. dante's idea was to punish the person for commiting the sin, not to kill them. they were already dead, after all blink.gif

and greed died in the boiling chamber already, anyway, so we're clearly not following dante's pattern. the lehners' might be the one, though.

@ armor-alchemist-- lol. did it taste good? tongue.gif
Sensenic
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Aug 3 2005, 02:15 PM)
*holds up hands* I drank snake soup before cuz my mom said it's good for me and I didn't die from it, so I doubt Gluttony will xD
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Actually, as a matter of fact, Gluttony did probably eat... drink many of them, snakes and rats, along with leaves, branches, logs and full trees, sand and stones, some wooden walls, iron wire, a shotgun's cannon, fire, etc. wink.gif
carla
it would make much more sense for him to die of starvation, yeah tongue.gif
SweetJanie
Maybe he'll die by eating himself!! xD You may say that's impossible, but the fact is that those beams he was sending in the last chapter was a new way to eat, even Ed asked where what he ate was going to, so... maybe he really can!

Now that would be weird... xD
Senefen
Musn't be the divine comedy, those wern't the ones I was thinking of. So maybe they'll get gluttony to suck up something nasty, arsonic and mercury would be a good start....
Guest
QUOTE(SweetJanie @ Aug 4 2005, 09:54 AM)
Maybe he'll die by eating himself!! xD You may say that's impossible, but the fact is that those beams he was sending in the last chapter was a new way to eat, even Ed asked where what he ate was going to, so... maybe he really can!

Now that would be weird... xD
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Those weren't beams. They are actually the teeth. Gluttony extends those teeth to grab and pull back things to his mouth.
deathblaze
maybe there will be a mix of dante's and lehner's pattern... who knows...
lialiakicks
If Gluttony ate himself I would be scared. VERY scared. O_o
Guest_spectacal_*
Wrath's death would have made more sense if this was the anime, considering he had Ed's arm and leg. But since this is the manga, I'm interested to see how this will go!
AlchemistWooj
Interesting... Gluttony's death is preeety forceful.(About who made him eat those stuff)
-Alchemist w00jy
Senefen
QUOTE
.(About who made him eat those stuff)
God probably, or Satan, its a punishment you get in hell so...
I think getting him to swallow something bad will be the way they get rid of him. I still reckon arsonic would work. He's still carbon based so it'll still kill him.
Ed had a point though WTF is all the stuff he's sucking up going?
Sensenic
QUOTE(Senefen @ Aug 10 2005, 08:14 AM)
QUOTE
.(About who made him eat those stuff)
God probably, or Satan, its a punishment you get in hell so...
I think getting him to swallow something bad will be the way they get rid of him. I still reckon arsonic would work. He's still carbon based so it'll still kill him.
Ed had a point though WTF is all the stuff he's sucking up going?
[snapback]247697[/snapback]

Taking in mind the eye... I'd say they go, as the song said, Tobira no mukou e, to the other side of the door. happy.gifU
Senefen
Tobira no mukou e ne?
Maybe if he throws up Al's body'll come out O.o. Now theres a disturbing thought.
Aoko-chan
I just read, no saw(can't read Japanese ^^;;), chapter 50..and Gluttony did suck up lots and lots of things

[spoiler] Ed, got sucked in... and where the HELL is he?? [/spoiler]

Mind you, it looks like he sucked in Xerxes too :S

As for wrath's death (King Bradley), I think Ed or Ling is going to chop him up xD
Nepharski
Forgive this bump, but I believe I have some insight as to potential deaths for the Homonuculi.

Envy: It would seem to me that if you were emersed in freezing water, you would freeze (Obviously). Has anyone considered that perhaps Envy will be frozen to death? Kind of an opposite on the spectrum compared to Lust being burned alive.

Wrath: It says dismembered, so I think that to destroy Wrath/King Bradley, you must separate his limbs and head from his body, preferably almost simultaneously to prevent regeneration. Not sure how, but perhaps in 6 specific pieces he would die or reveal some weakness of some sort.

Pride: 'Broken by the wheel" brings to mind the image of Indiana Jones escaping from the boulder. My guess: Crush Pride.

Of course, those are merely guesses. I suppose the snake referance for Sloth means that he must be poisoned, but that seems an awfully easy death in comparision to the rest, and I have absolutely no idea for Gluttoney, except that maybe he needs to eat people and animals to indefinitely fuel his stone (Soyvalent Green Philosopher's Stones is people!), so starving him would work, or maybe he will eat himself.

Oh, and allow me to introduce myself: I'm Nepharski, and I have come to enjoy FMA amongst fellow connoisseurs.
Antimony
Hello, Nepharski! Welcome to the board!

SPOILER for manga #51:

Ed and Ling should probably get out before Gluttony is killed, or they might be trapped inside the void forever! Or they could get killed by Envy! Maybe if Gluttony eats a particular thing he'll get nauseous and puke them out? blink.gif
Sensenic
First of all, welcome to the board, Nepharski.
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Sep 24 2005, 09:05 AM) [snapback]291518[/snapback]

Forgive this bump, but I believe I have some insight as to potential deaths for the Homonuculi.

Envy: (...)Has anyone considered that perhaps Envy will be frozen to death?(...)

Errrmmm... yes? Since it's what that Dante source says...
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Sep 24 2005, 09:05 AM) [snapback]291518[/snapback]

Pride: 'Broken by the wheel" brings to mind the image of Indiana Jones escaping from the boulder. My guess: Crush Pride.

The wheel is a torture instrument used by the inquisition and such. In one of the "versions" I've seen, your feet are "nailed" to the ground and your hands tied to the wheel. Now, they start pulling, and pulling, and pulling... until you either confess or go *crack!* -> Broken.
Thassit.
animefangirl
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Sep 26 2005, 04:04 PM) [snapback]293061[/snapback]

First of all, welcome to the board, Nepharski.
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Sep 24 2005, 09:05 AM) [snapback]291518[/snapback]

Forgive this bump, but I believe I have some insight as to potential deaths for the Homonuculi.

Envy: (...)Has anyone considered that perhaps Envy will be frozen to death?(...)

Errrmmm... yes? Since it's what that Dante source says...
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Sep 24 2005, 09:05 AM) [snapback]291518[/snapback]

Pride: 'Broken by the wheel" brings to mind the image of Indiana Jones escaping from the boulder. My guess: Crush Pride.

The wheel is a torture instrument used by the inquisition and such. In one of the "versions" I've seen, your feet are "nailed" to the ground and your hands tied to the wheel. Now, they start pulling, and pulling, and pulling... until you either confess or go *crack!* -> Broken.
Thassit.


holy crap, thats brutal
Nepharski
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Sep 26 2005, 02:04 PM) [snapback]293061[/snapback]

First of all, welcome to the board, Nepharski.
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Sep 24 2005, 09:05 AM) [snapback]291518[/snapback]

Forgive this bump, but I believe I have some insight as to potential deaths for the Homonuculi.

Envy: (...)Has anyone considered that perhaps Envy will be frozen to death?(...)

Errrmmm... yes? Since it's what that Dante source says...
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Sep 24 2005, 09:05 AM) [snapback]291518[/snapback]

Pride: 'Broken by the wheel" brings to mind the image of Indiana Jones escaping from the boulder. My guess: Crush Pride.

The wheel is a torture instrument used by the inquisition and such. In one of the "versions" I've seen, your feet are "nailed" to the ground and your hands tied to the wheel. Now, they start pulling, and pulling, and pulling... until you either confess or go *crack!* -> Broken.
Thassit.

...Seems an odd way to kill someone. I mean, boiling or burning or freezing to death (Greed, Lust, and probably Envy) flows somehow, but for someone's weakness to be "Stretching to the breaking point, via used inquisition* equipment," seems a tad..."Specific."

Here's another thought: "Pride cometh before the fall." Interesting, no?

On a different note, I don't think Wrath can regenerate. His eye allows him to avoid nearly any and all potential danger, and it might look odd on the battle feild to be seen regrowing limbs or self-rebuilding after a bomb strike, so perhaps his position has compromised his regenerative abilities, so he could be killed like any normal human being...if you can get around that awesome eye of his.





*Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
GS4Life
Actually Envy may die differently. I'll bite off his head if he tries to kill Ling again by turning into Ran Fan.
Guest
haha, nice way GS4Life... or if he attemps to kill Ling again. It'll be ME who sticks him into a fridge with -1000 Degrees Celcius (i know, its impossible, but its Envy)
animefangirl
QUOTE(Guest @ Sep 30 2005, 10:46 AM) [snapback]294487[/snapback]

haha, nice way GS4Life... or if he attemps to kill Ling again. It'll be ME who sticks him into a fridge with -1000 Degrees Celcius (i know, its impossible, but its Envy)

lol
Singhay
In Dante's Divine Comedy, in Canto 34, theres a pic of Satan in a frozen central zone.

In 1589, Peter Binsfeld paired each Sin with a demon.

Wrath was paired with Satan. Maybe the only way he will be dismembered alive is that he is frozen.

Also Envy is paired with Leviathan, thats what he transformed into at the end of the Anime, not an Oroborus.
Nepharski
QUOTE(Singhay @ Oct 14 2005, 10:12 PM) [snapback]300566[/snapback]

In Dante's Divine Comedy, in Canto 34, theres a pic of Satan in a frozen central zone.

In 1589, Peter Binsfeld paired each Sin with a demon.

Wrath was paired with Satan. Maybe the only way he will be dismembered alive is that he is frozen.

Also Envy is paired with Leviathan, thats what he transformed into at the end of the Anime, not an Oroborus.

And how would one kill Leviathan?

In Chapter 52, when Roy mentions Wrath's adopted son, Salem, Wrath shakes his head and says, "No, that cannot be my weakness." What is he talking about, I wonder...
njx
Regarding the death of Gluttony:

In order to figure it out, you'll have to have read Chapter 52. Explanation inside the spoiler brackets:

[spoiler]
If you've read chapter 52, then you know Envy is sort of like a snakelike/reptiliian-style monster in his/her real form. Gluttony has swallowed Envy, Ed, and Ling. When Ed is swallowed by Envy in chapter 52, he sees a Philosopher's Stone and a Gate of Knowledge inside Envy.

My speculation is that Ed is going to use the Gate of Knowledge inside Envy to rip straight out of Gluttony's "stomach", i.e. the False Gate zone. In the process of exiting through this opening of the Gate of Knowledge, all of the False Gate zone will be sucked through; literally tearing apart Gluttony from the inside.

Since the Divine Comedy lists Gluttony's death as related to eating snakes and rodents and filth; this would be appropo - Envy is the snake that he swallowed, and it would ultimately be the Gate inside Envy that will be his undoing.

If you think about it - it makes a lot of sense. Ed, Ling, and Envy will end up imploding Gluttony right in front of "Father", presumably reuniting them with Al, Scar, and Mei-Chan - which would set the perfect stage for the next step of the story.
[/spoiler]

Regarding the death of Envy: On the Chapter 52 thread, Tyoria suggested that Envy's undoing will be her eyes, as depicted by Dante's version of the punishments. She backs up this theory with an overwhelming amount of evidence to lend credence to this idea as a serious explanation. See her(?) line of reasoning here (beware of spoilers): Tyoria's "Eyes" Theory. That offers some compelling evidence that the "freezing water bit" may not happen and may very well be more of something along the lines of this instead (spoiler enclosed for those that do not wish to speculate):

[spoiler]Envy will have her eyes "sewn" shut (or burned or sealed or something of that nature),, and then she won't be able to morph her form anymore - the literary equivalent of "being forced to wear clothes that look like the ground."' Stuck in her "fragile" androgynous homunculus form, she wil be easy to defeat in physical battle and will basically be killed.[/spoiler]

Again, this is all speculation on my part (with credit to Tyoria for her lead on Envy), but I think they are the most likely theories for the fates of Gluttony and Envy.

As for Wrath (the only other homunculous we know much about), I have little speculation at this point, other than to believe that being "dismembered alive" may be the equivalent of Scar alchemically deconstructing his entire body (thus separating the physical matter from the Philosopher's Stone, preventing it from being affected by its regenerative powers and thus preventing Wrath from recovering), or Zolph Kimbley doing something similar by obliterating him as a "man-fueled bomb." Those are long shots, but that's the best I can think of.

Speculation on Sloth or Pride? I've got nothin'.

Comments are welcome.
Guest
QUOTE(Singhay @ Oct 14 2005, 11:12 PM) [snapback]300566[/snapback]

Also Envy is paired with Leviathan, thats what he transformed into at the end of the Anime, not an Oroborus.
Why are we bringing in that crap from the anime again?
Did the anime followed the core principles and indentities for homunculi as laid put in the manga?
As is usually said, it will be better (and wiser) to simply ignore the anime for its many contradictions and irregularties, and just focus on the manga as it should be.
RocketJess
Regarding the "rat, snake and toad"...

I think Envy might represent the toad, rather than the snake (as someone suggested above), since I remember reading somewhere that frogs are associated with the sin of Envy.

Ling could be the snake, as the Chinese emperor is associated with the serpent-like Asian dragon, and Ling is the son of the Xingese emperor.

And Ed would be the rat because... he's the one left over?

>_>
dry.gif

Just my two cents.
GS4Life
Spoilers(I kow it's useless for me to be using it now, but still)
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At this point I believe that Envy will cooperate with Ed and try to escape, but he also tries to keep Ling from escaping, and that point Ed will freeze the blood along with Envy so that Ling can escape, and something will happen so Ed, Ling, and Al don't see the "Father" quite yet. Gluttony, being naive will probably be forced to eat all the dead chimeras or something as a punishment, and his body becomes to unstable and kinda dies or something to that extent.
nakagos bunny
I have a feeling Envy isn't dying anytime soon like everyone else here seems to think. Something tells me he's going to be around till the very end of the manga. dry.gif Maybe even be "redeemed" and never die.
animefangirl
QUOTE(nakagos bunny @ Oct 18 2005, 04:19 PM) [snapback]301327[/snapback]

I have a feeling Envy isn't dying anytime soon like everyone else here seems to think. Something tells me he's going to be around till the very end of the manga. dry.gif Maybe even be "redeemed" and never die.

i think so too
nakagos bunny
Envy is like a roach. You can't kill him. (not that I'd try to kill a roach) Only Envy in his real form is uglier than a roach, and he was always nastier. tongue.gif *sorry, Envy fans....but I've gone from liking the character to loving to hate him...personal reasons....*
RocketJess
I've never liked Envy, at all. He doesn't have any redeeming qualities in the anime or manga, and he seems too thoroughly evil (and particularly to enjoy being thoroughly evil) to turn good.
nakagos bunny
I agree.

But I'm wondering if the author thinks it would be cool to redeem the one who seemed the most evil and irredeemable, just to throw us off.

And I don't know how it is in Japan, but here he has a lot of fans just because in that one form he looks good. biggrin.gif I'm not sure if the author willl take popularity into account, but if he's as popular there as here, it's a good chance he'll be spared.

Personally, I think some characters only work as a villain and it wouldn't be fair to the audience/other characters if he didn't get his comeuppance, but I have seen it happen before where someone who didn't deserve it was spared in a story while others were not.
The random alchemist
QUOTE (MonsterEnvy @ Dec 19 2006, 12:38 PM) *
...First, some comtments.
Neph, Gluttony is most certainly not dead, and he will most certainly be ressurected...

well duh. for all the people that think Gluttony is dead. You see him, alive and well, in 3 panel in chapter 57. At that point he's about small enough to fit in someone's hands. Hoozah for Pocket Gluttony!

Also I tend to agree with you Monster Envy. I have a feelin Envy will die in this series before the end =/ unlike tha anime he seems pretty weak in the fighting departement so I think he just needs to be in one good fight in the north and fall into a river or pond... something along those line and then he'll freeze to death just like Dante's inferno predicts.

MonsterEnvy
Just on a somewhat off-topic note- Dante's Inferno says NOTHING about the seven deadly sins. The only two that are punished remotely the way that they are mythologically are Lust in Purgatory- burning flames- and Gluttony in Hell- eating snakes and things. The rest have nothing to do with Dante's Commedia.

...just needed to get that out there. I read the Commedia the first time because of FMA, but have since become a Dante fanboy in my own right.

As for the V2 group, it's a member's only area (the one with the chapter in it) but i gather that they only have the first page with Sloth from Gangan.
The random alchemist
QUOTE (MonsterEnvy @ Dec 19 2006, 09:11 PM) *
Just on a somewhat off-topic note- Dante's Inferno says NOTHING about the seven deadly sins. The only two that are punished remotely the way that they are mythologically are Lust in Purgatory- burning flames- and Gluttony in Hell- eating snakes and things. The rest have nothing to do with Dante's Commedia.

...just needed to get that out there. I read the Commedia the first time because of FMA, but have since become a Dante fanboy in my own right.

As for the V2 group, it's a member's only area (the one with the chapter in it) but i gather that they only have the first page with Sloth from Gangan.

O rly?

thanks for the info MonsterEnvy smile.gif I didn't know that DI didn't mention the others Oo

<Closing the thread as we know by now that this is not how they die. ^^ ~ Tombow>
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