when described as it was, yeah it sounds pretty awful but the experiment is certainly not useless. though it was sorta glossed over in the summary described in this forum, the conclusion the scientists reached was important.
learning that the walking mechanism of mammals is located in the spine today enables doctors in the ER to better assess where the damage is in the nervous system. since that function is located in the spine instead of in the brain as previously thought, the fact that someone could go through walking motions was no guarentee that their spine wasn't fractured in some place above wherever the mechanism was located. not handling a spinal fracture correctly can potentially paralyze someone for life.
the scientists didn't just decide to do this for no reason at all. they had a theory and this was the ONLY way to test it. scientists do not enjoy doing this sort of thing and they have to get permission to conduct experiments from a board of ethics so if there was another more humane way to test this hypothesis, they would have done it. yeah it seems to cry out frankenstein and seem wrong but it provided a lot of valuable knowledge.

the fact of the matter is that a great deal (probably most) of what we know about medicine today comes from experiments like these. the knowledge gained has enabled medicine to help ease human suffering for billions of people. frankly, to allow all that suffering for the sake of forgoing testing on animals is to me much more "awful."
you are of course welcome to your own opinion on the matter, but if you want to completely distance yourself from this practice, you should be aware that most of the hospital care, doctor's visits, and medication you've taken in your life has come from stuff like this so you should forsake that stuff, too.

Thank you a lot for telling me this but I will always have the same opinion on this sort of experiment and nothing will change it, because if I'd had to chose between the suffering of an animal and the suffering of an human being, my answer will certainly piss off some people so this discussion is over...

Back on topic: Shou Tucker's experiment WAS useless, but we must certainly blaim Basque Gran too! He is the one who forced him to do this!

I don't think he's evil. I really think that he did cared about Nina and wanted the best to come for her. In the episodes, he always seemed like this mild, enmity-flustered guy who was really holding back, since he doesn't seem to like really being around Ed and Al that much. But there are some parts where his expression changes, especially when he's holding Nina to him.

I think he really loves her, but the fact is that, all the conservative knowledge went to his head and he just broke down.

In one of the episodes, before his creation of Nina/Alexander, he had the ambition for the Philosopher's Stone because he wanted to give it to Nina.

i sorta hate him
i hate him for doing evil things to his daughter, but its clearly shown he is mentally ill and crazy (but not in an evil way) since he
[spoiler] tries to bring back his daughter. He fails and creates a living doll. He tricks himself into thinking it is really nina
proof right there that he definantly needs a psychiatrist [/spoiler]

I don't think he realizes the evilness of all the experiments he has done.
He is totally mental, and creepy.
Tho, I don't hate him as much as some other Fma characters.
But, yeah, he's so creepy!!

Well, I think he does realize what an evil man he is..but he still thinks that he can fix everything he screwed up, because I think that he thinks that with alchemy he can rectify everything and all will be forgiven. But you are totally right...be he seriously creepy. And
[spoiler]after he chimerised himself ....I dunno how Ed refrained from screaming and running with his hands flailing in the other direction. [/spoiler]
And he's even got that freaking raspy, creepy voice...I mean, the guy's nuttier than my stepmom's X-mas fruitcake that's currently sitting on the counter *shutter*. Every episode that Tucker is in, I just want to yell at the screen...but not necessarily hurt him...i reserve that privilage for other characters....

I hate him beyond words, but not as much as Kimbley and Dante.

I didn't vote because I don't really hate him or like him. If he hadn't kept up his title (probably for the wealth) he may have been living on the streets with Nina. I mean, what sort of life would that be for a little girl, anyway? He is also a single parent (but that's his fault,) and would be trying to take care of them both, most likely with little results. He also promoted to science, (not for a very good cause, or good consequences, though,) and I think he was probably seriously contemplating whether to go through with the "talking chimera" plan involving Nina or not. I think it was apparent that he loved Nina, but his fascination of science and experimentation won in his decision making. ^.^; Boy, do I seem to like analyzing things.

I HATE Tucker with a burning passion!!! That man should have died by Scar's hand like in that Manga!!!!!!!!

There's really not a poll option that fits for me.

I don't hate Tucker, but I definitley don't think he's kind.=p

He did really awful things, but I think he was driven crazy by the pressure put on him.

I think he did love his family, but he just became very twisted.

I hate him. He's insane in the brain, if ya know what I'm saying.

I hate him for making Nina a chimera.

I think *all* the chimeras hate him for making them as such.

I don't like the guy either, but I have to admit, if anyone gets what exactly what they deserve for their wrongs, Tucker does.

;_; he's such a meanyhead. how could he put his stupid career over his lovely daughter? yes, i do despise him with all my might. T_T

I think there's a lot to his character that makes him not likable or respectable, but not wholly evil, either.

I hate him!
Such a heartless guy,use his family to make chimera!!!
but i do pity him...when he tryin to create the chimera looks like Nina and even beg Al to let him use the stone again to create Nina.
I guess he still love his daughter but he should had not used Nina at first place!!!!!!!

Um... you might want to add some spoiler space to that last post

*nods*...Spoiler tags=GOOD...that was a big give-away...hope no one looks at it, who doesn't want to see...(sigh)

I hate his guts! he's a damn bastard that doesn't deserve to live...i can never forgive him for what he did to nina X_X

I don't even know how can anyone like him!!

I HATE HIM SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!

I really hate that guy...so repulsive...makes me angry to think about him

HE MEANIE!!!!!!!!

Hes not so bad. He had a very hard decision to make. To live a life of solitude and misery or carve his future for a better life. I think he just got caught up in the moment. Plus he was kinda mental so he might of not of known what he was doing. I think hes a good person.

Well, yeah, I hate him, I mean who wouldn´t? He is just insane.

Even though that he wants to bring Nina back and it is kind of depresing seeing him himself a chimera trying to make things right.

But that doesn´t means I like him. If he really loved Nina he shouldn´t have dona that to her.

Evil!!!!

I really don't like Tucker that much but I hardly hate him. I felt bad for him actually even though it was his own fault he got into the whole mess with Nina and the chimeras. I pitied him in the end but at first he was a relatively likable character at some moments.

Whatever way I guess I might be insane. Possibly it could just be my nature of liking the relatively "heartless" or "evil" characters. In the end I think I'll have to say I like Tucker more than I dislike him.

HE'S EVIL AND SHOULD BE EATED BY HIS OWN CHIMERA!!!!!

I hate Shou Tucker, but at the same time, I feel sorry for him. He's a broken man.

You know, there's something I just realized. Tucker is like a weaker version of Ed Elric. Let me explain.

1. First off, we know Tucker is a less gifted alchemist than Ed. Notice how he marvels when Ed casually recreates his transmutation circle in the 5th laboratory. However they are interested in the same thing and walk the same line by dabbling in transmuting living things.
2. He's also weaker than Ed in terms of his morality. He does not have the same unbending respect for human life that Ed does. Once again, in the 5th laboratory he seems to OK with the idea of transmuting prisoner's lives. And then of course he betrays Greed.

But think about it. Tucker's story is basically a sadder version of Ed's that is caused by Tucker being weaker than Ed. He wants happiness for himself and his loved ones. He tries to use his alchemy to provide him that just like Ed does. However, he makes a mistake and does something he bitterly regrets. He then spends the rest of the series trying to undo that mistake he made. He even goes so far as to try to use the Philosopher's Stone to get back Nina just like Ed plans to do to get back Al. Once again, he is not powerful enough to bind her soul and ends up with a lifeless doll and a broken mind.

It's not a perfect comparison and please don't respond indignently to this post for daring to compare Tucker to Ed. Reread this and think about it. I'm not trying to excuse Tucker's actions or say he is a great person, but when you think of him this way it changes your perspective.

Wow! Deep.

I like comparisons like that. Personally, I see Archer as a foil for what Roy might have become.

I dislike him for what he did, but he regretted it and did all he could to correct it.



However, he still used prisoners once again, so in a way, he just regretted losing Nina and Alexander. He also betrayed Greed and used Alphonse, and those are my two favorite characters.


I try not to hate him (mainly because of all the people blindly saying how much they hate him without stating reasons) but I find it very difficult.

I hate Tucker. Hes just so mean.

I don't HATE him, but I wouldn't be upset if he was ran over by a truck lol. I actually feel sorry for him sometimes, he trys to undo what he did to Nina, but he was to weak in spirit to do it, and he ends up in that awful form. I just think he's Insane and I pity him, not hate him.

agreed!

I hate him, he's annoying as hell! He has the guts to go and ask Al to let him use the stone! What? What is Al gonna do? Say "Here you go, Mr. Tucker, all our lives searching for it, and now you can have it!" Is that what he seriously expected?

i hate Tucker so much! He's deranged and a mad man!!

I mock his dancing ability!

He was ok until he went from shy nerdy guy to evil super villainy.I like how they left his story open ended.

Yeah, I hate how his voice is all whispery......

hey all you tucker sympathizers-- when do you hold a person accountable for their actions, even if they're "insane"? how do you define insane? do you feel bad for jeffrey dahmer because he was "insane"?

people are defined by their choices. tucker started transmuting his family to keep his certification. he was in over his head, he didn't have what it takes to be a state alchemist. he could've chosen to fail the certification and go back to a simple life with his integrity (and family) intact. he chose not to. does this make him "evil" or "insane"?

we learn later on he's gutless, when someone (envy, i think) says it takes a strong will to attach a soul, and that's something he dosn't have. there you have it, he was flawed from the start. when faced with an important choice, he didn't have the kojones to to the honorable thing.

his karma catches up with him, as represented by his loss of humanity, and ultimately he's reduced to the state we see him in at the end of "goodbye".

oddly, my landlord looks a lot like him.

I think that Tucker reminds me a lot of Gullum from the Lord of the Rings. He's one of those characters that are vile, but yet, you can't help but feel sorry for them. I don't know much about Tucker's life, but I wonder if there wasn't something besides a lack of employment behind his motivations. If you remember, Tucker's chimeras were used by the military. Perhaps they were such the strategic advantage, and because he was the only one who could make them, his life was maybe threathened.

Regardless, from a scientific perspective, his work is valueable. For instance, everyone agrees that the Nazis were odious, but their death camps provided the most elaborate human experimentation ever. This, when viewed by non-sentimental beings, was a sociologist/psychologist's wet dream. Think of all the data that could be collected here, but no where else because ethics prevent us from employing such experiments.

Please don't confuse my previous statement with my oppinion. I am not pro-concentration camps or human experimentation. I'm just saying that... hey, after the fact, there was some usefullness to come of it.

Quem di diligunt, adolescens moritur- "Whom the gods love, die young"

Hyleaus

I liked Shou Tucker when we first saw him. He seemed like a nice guy that wouldn't hurt anybody. But then he goes and turns Nina into

a chimera. Then I've hated him since.

Yeah he's evil, look what he did to poor little Nina!!!

In my opinion he can go rot in hell for what he did!

Right on

i don't think i've seen any "tucker sympathizers" in this thread. the only two reactions i have seen are outright hatred and hatred tempered with pity. no one outright supports him and i don't think you can blame someone for having pity. i think most people feel badly when they see how he spends the rest of his life trying to bring back what he lost. he certainly suffered for his actions, although whether he was punished enough is a matter of opinion.
incidentally, there is a consensus on what defines "insanity" that being the ability to appreciate the consequences of one's actions. under this definition people tied to reality but warped, like sociopaths and narcissists are not insane though they're far from healthy. they understand their actions are wrong but just don't give a crap. conversely someone suffering from schizophrenia that is not tied to reality and doesn't realize they are doing something wrong is insane. it is cruel and unfair to punish someone for something they couldn't even comprehend.
anyway, both tucker and dahmer were fully aware of the consequences of their actions when they carried them out. dahmer, iirc, poured acid into people's skulls to make a perfectly compliant love slave (among many other horrific acts). he was well aware of what he was doing and just selfish. tucker understood he was sacrificing his daughter and was aware of the consequences.



that's a very good analogy. however, i've never really considered gollum anything but a victim. he was just a simple being that was ensnared by the greatest power in Middle Earth. he never had a chance.

He's just insane.. Turning his wife and daughter into chimeras for his own benerfit is a sin, can't he use mice and cockroaches instead?
If he exists, he will be chucked straight to hell

Well seeing he wanted a taking chimera he'd need a talking mouse or Cockroach. Can you spot the probem?
Also how is it a sin? He didn't "kill" anyone did he? He comited no sin and even then maybe Sin's don't exist in FMA. And before you point out the Homunculus, the Seven dealy Sins aren't actual Biblical sins but ones made up by Dante.

Oh well, Ok *hands up*
I still think that what Tucker's done is insane.. My friend and I hate him for that..

In a way, I agree with you . I also believe that the anime shared the same view as you about Tucker and Edward being almost alike. However, what seperates Edward from Tucker is their motives. Edward wanted to bring his mother back, but when the human transmutation failed, his only goal is to bring him and his brother back to normal. On the other hand, Tucker only wanted to save his career- which is more of a selfish reason.

It's understandable that people would want to take their work seriously, but there's also have to be a balance. You should never choose a career over your family, no matter the consequences. Your family has to come first! Nevertheless, Tucker choose to do the opposite. I know that Tucker was faced of loosing everything he had, then again as smart as he is, Tucker would of easily found another way to survive in his world- without depending on the military. This is why I'm not sympathetic to him at all.

I hate Tucker he's a basterd!!!