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Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > General Discussions > Open Talk
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Popogeejo
Having read through Shrimps post I'd opint out that:
1)It's heavily biased
2)It's hypocritical.

QUOTE
The Darwinists have a well-oiled propaganda machine to keep their true goals hidden from the taxpayers, two-thirds of whom believe in creation. Darwinists have Web sites set up to deflect criticism of evolution and to further their legislative and judicial goals, which are to kill God and elevate humanism to His throne.


And I'm sure there are NO sites what so ever defending the bible which has it's own goals it keeps secret rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
Darwinists have given up the public debates because they lost hundreds of them in the 1970s and '80s. Why did they lose? As a participant in two of them, I will tell you. They lost because they had no proof. Amazing! No proof! Donkeys eat babies. They usually tried old debate tricks of personal attacks on their opponents, i.e. "You can't be a scientist because you believe the Bible," etc. But they lost because audiences were shocked-shocked that the Darwinists had no proof! And they have none today!


Creationists have no proof either and stoop to personal atttacks.It's even shown in this article;
QUOTE
The Darwinists are even more hilarious-they not only believe, but also teach more than six possible fairy tales in their biology classes. The history of their pathetic attempt to pump life into the Lenin-like corpse of evolution is full of laugh.

QUOTE
He spent two years in medical school, dropping out after spending too much time in bars. He had some divinity training but failed to make in as an Anglican minister. He was never a scientist but took a position as a naturalist on a ship and later wrote his racist books The Origin of Species and the Preservation of Favored Races and Descent of Man. He was ignorant of genetics. He married his first cousin. All seven children either died young or had mental or physical disorders.

QUOTE
How can supposedly reasonable men believe this weird stuff and then try to pass it off as science?


I smell Hypocracy! Is that a personal attack I see?

QUOTE
In the last half century, evolution has softly hijacked the American educational system and inflicted a great defeat on American culture. Crime has skyrocketed; homosexuality and gay marriage have been mainstreamed; and our morals have submerged into a cesspool. Why? Kids brainwashed with this kooky nonsense, are taught that they evolved from apes, so they act like apes. If it feels good, do it.


This made me laugh. Seem like this guy won't rule in other factors like increaseing divide between the rich and poor leading to more crime, increased social awarness leading more people to except homosexuality and generaly society learning to except new things.
the Bible and the Church want to keep us in the dark ages!

QUOTE
"I suppose that nobody will deny that it is a great misfortune if an entire branch of science becomes addicted to a false theory. But this is what has happened in biology.... I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked as the greated deceit in the history of science"


Yet this same man wants you to belive in a mistranslated book that says an all powerfull being is more hung up on gay people repenting than world poverty and suffering. What the hell? I belive that one day Religion will be seen as the biggest load of organised crap ever to grace the Earth.

Summary

Remember that The church has it's own agendas. It' doesn't want to be swept away by facts and theories so it attacks them in illogical and poorly thought out rants.
The guy who wrote this is highly baised. Just look who he wrote for.

QUOTE
This is an article done by Prophetic Observer, and copyrighted 2006 by Southwest Radio Church, and this article is completely theirs, in which this article is titled Laughing at Evolution, which I hope that you may find somewhat interesting at the least.


Also why doesn't he give his name if he so belives in his argument? Now we can't check his given credentials.
MonsterEnvy
That was a bastardized version of the sermon. I was six at the time, and tried to communicate the essence of it as easily and quickly as possible...
FullMetal Shrimp
QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 1 2006, 04:26 AM) [snapback]388682[/snapback]


QUOTE
In the last half century, evolution has softly hijacked the American educational system and inflicted a great defeat on American culture. Crime has skyrocketed; homosexuality and gay marriage have been mainstreamed; and our morals have submerged into a cesspool. Why? Kids brainwashed with this kooky nonsense, are taught that they evolved from apes, so they act like apes. If it feels good, do it.


This made me laugh. Seem like this guy won't rule in other factors like increaseing divide between the rich and poor leading to more crime, increased social awarness leading more people to except homosexuality and generaly society learning to except new things.
the Bible and the Church want to keep us in the dark ages!


Actually, this is one of the things I agree with about the author. And you should laugh, because that's what it's there for. But, honestly, this is why I believe people converted into evolution. Think about it. A while back, there used to be Bible time and prayer time in schools. Back then, there were morals because there was the Bible. Now look at today. Don't tell me crimes haven't increased. It's also true that things that would be considered as extremely absurd 50 years ago are acceptable in today's society. And why? Because, evolution is the religion of no God. If it feels good, do it. No God, no such thing as sin. People want to be crazy and do what they want to do. They don't want to believe in a thing that teaches about what's right. They take their own path. And when you mix it in with "Scientifical Evidence", true or false, people will believe it.

People are also gullible. This is why my church loves witnessing to children, because as you age without God, you grow harder into sin and it's harder for you to recognize what's right. Teach a kid evolution in school, they'll believe it. They may not even understand what they're being told about evolution, but then they may say "OMFG! There's so much fact! It must be true!" I'm not saying that all people are like this, though.

I know a person, and he was a Christian. He believed in God strongly. Then he found porn (a sin) and masturbated (another sin), and his thoughts were "Wow! That feels good! There's no God! I'll do what I want! God's a #%$@&!!" If it feels good, do it. And he felt proud to curse in front of God (Pride is also a sin), and he was completely ignorant after that. As people turn from God, there becomes more sin, and so you see less of "Miracles" and such, because sin seperates us from God.
Popogeejo
QUOTE
But, honestly, this is why I believe people converted into evolution.


STOP TALKING ABOUT EVOLUTION LIKE IT'S A RELIGON!

QUOTE
A while back, there used to be Bible time and prayer time in schools. Back then, there were morals because there was the Bible. Now look at today. Don't tell me crimes haven't increased


Crime has been consistantly dropping while press coverage has been vastly increasing.
In Oxford, Uk in the 1500's there were 13 murders a week.
There is far less crime than the media would have you think.

QUOTE
It's also true that things that would be considered as extremely absurd 50 years ago are acceptable in today's society. And why? Because, evolution is the religion of no God. If it feels good, do it. No God, no such thing as sin.


You say this as if Evolution means no morality. Seemslike you're making unfounded acusations.

QUOTE
People are also gullible. This is why my church loves witnessing to children, because as you age without God, you grow harder into sin and it's harder for you to recognize what's right. Teach a kid evolution in school, they'll believe it. They may not even understand what they're being told about evolution, but then they may say "OMFG! There's so much fact! It must be true!" I'm not saying that all people are like this, though.


You say all this yet you want the Church to do the same exact thing. ALso kids aren't taught evolutoin untill their teens at which age they are more than capable of forming their own opinions quite easily.

QUOTE
I know a person, and he was a Christian. He believed in God strongly. Then he found porn (a sin) and masturbated (another sin), and his thoughts were "Wow! That feels good! There's no God! I'll do what I want! God's a #%$@&!!" If it feels good, do it. And he felt proud to curse in front of God (Pride is also a sin), and he was completely ignorant after that. As people turn from God, there becomes more sin, and so you see less of "Miracles" and such, because sin seperates us from God


Why is Masturbation and Pornography a sin? Seems unfair that if we can't have pre marital sex we can't vent our tension in some other way.
Also God seesm to Sin quite a bit himself doesn't he.
Thou shalt not kill. But wait a minute wasn't there a great flood and 2 cities nuked?
Pride is a Sin:
QUOTE("Bible")
And God looked on his work and saw that it was good

Thats Pride right there.
Thout shalt not lie yet God tells Issac to kill Abraham just to test his faith! Thats lieing and crule.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 1 2006, 08:11 PM) [snapback]389028[/snapback]
.

I know a person, and he was a Christian. He believed in God strongly. Then he found porn (a sin) and masturbated (another sin), and his thoughts were "Wow! That feels good! There's no God! I'll do what I want! God's a #%$@&!!"

You're breaking the third commandment. rolleyes.gif


It should be noted that Catholicism is the only Christian sect that considers masturbation to be sinful.
MonsterEnvy
Void, is that link in your sig real?

It scares me.

Look, FMS: I'm sure that your friend enjoys masturbation or whatever, and if his hold on God was so tenuous that it could be shattered by orgasm, then I'm not totally positive that he was terribly religious in the first place.

Do you totally believe in refraining from any masturbation, viewing of pornography, and sex before marriage? Some of that seems silly... I'd also like you to tell me why masturbation is morally wrong. Don't argue porn, there are more than enough cases for that, and even sex before marriage can have some argument, but I'd love to here your stance on masturbation.
Carnal Malefactor
Catholics believe masturbation is wrong for the same reason they don't believe in birth control:

There are Jews in the world, there are Buddhists,
There are Hindus and Mormons and then,
There are those that follow Mohammed,
But I've never been one of them...

I'm a Roman Catholic, and have been since the day I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics,
Is they'll take you as soon as you're warm...

You don't have to be a six-footer,
You don't have to have a great brain,
You don't have to have any clothes on -
You're a Catholic the moment dad came...

because...

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs, on the dusty ground,
God shall make them pay for each sperm that can't be found

Every sperm is wanted, every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed in your neighbourhood.

Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is useful, every sperm is fine,
God needs everybody's,
Mine
And mine
And mine

Let the Pagan spill theirs,
O'er mountain, hill and plain,
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed in your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.
MonsterEnvy
Goodness, where did you get that?

It's quite amusing, though.

I'm still wondering, is the hip hop site real?

Oh, and is it possible to change one's vote? I put down atheistic simply because there wasn't an agnostic option, but now that there is...
Carnal Malefactor
Nah, it's something the Huffington Post [Ariana Huffington's celebrity blog site] cooked up. Pretty funny.

The song is from Monty Python & The Meaning Of Life
Toby-Chan
Bacon, you could have just summed it up without using this as an excuse to quote Monty Python. laugh.gif

But really, just because an individual doesn't have Christianity, or even *gasp* any religion at all, it doesn't mean they are without morals.

And people who 'follow' the bible and 'church rules' sure as heck aren't all the most moral people.
FullMetal Shrimp
QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 1 2006, 05:27 PM) [snapback]389034[/snapback]


QUOTE
I know a person, and he was a Christian. He believed in God strongly. Then he found porn (a sin) and masturbated (another sin), and his thoughts were "Wow! That feels good! There's no God! I'll do what I want! God's a #%$@&!!" If it feels good, do it. And he felt proud to curse in front of God (Pride is also a sin), and he was completely ignorant after that. As people turn from God, there becomes more sin, and so you see less of "Miracles" and such, because sin seperates us from God


Why is Masturbation and Pornography a sin? Seems unfair that if we can't have pre marital sex we can't vent our tension in some other way.


Just think of FMA, the seven deadly sins. One of them were Lust. Things of the flesh and the world are sins.

Marraige is a special contract that two people share, and shows their absolute love for each other. They have a special contract that they share together to become whole, and united. It is an absolute love that couldn't or shouldn't be taken away. It's a very strong bond two people share. You get my point... Now, sex was created by God which was something beautiful done after marraige, but people abused that after Adam and Eve. It was to feel pleasure with no love or anything. Anything that makes you feel pleasure that wouldn't make God happy is a sin. One's body parts are also something that is shared after marraige, so pornstars have commited a sin.

Porn also leads to other things. Porn makes you horny, (can't believe I'm saying stuff like this...) look at it long enough and you'll eventually want to take that further, so you touch yourself for things that should be done after marraige. Then, you'll want to take it even further, and you're a pervert. Pervertedness in something that God has made beautiful is a sin, by making something God created wonderful, something of the flesh and world. (Sin is a natural desire of the soul, that is no mistake. Things of the flesh and the world are things that humans naturally desire.) Anyway... Now you're a pervert, and you might have images in your mind about other people you know and then take it even further, by comitting sins like fornication (sex before marraige) and rape. So, porn can lead to wicked things.

QUOTE
Also God seesm to Sin quite a bit himself doesn't he.
Thou shalt not kill. But wait a minute wasn't there a great flood and 2 cities nuked?


The people of the world besides Noah became wicked and of the world, having no faith in God at all. In those times, demons would also disguise themselves as angels or good people and have sex with the woman there, creating Hybrid demon/human species, and all the rest of the people were evil. Trying to lead them back to God was hopeless, so God had to destroy it, except Noah who was faithful in the Lord and all of his sons and daughters.

QUOTE
Pride is a Sin:
QUOTE("Bible")
And God looked on his work and saw that it was good

Thats Pride right there.


Yeah, that is pride, you're completely right. Pride is good, and bad. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing in this case. Having pride for things you do well in the Lord is a good thing, but having too much and considering yourself as the best and putting people below you is taking it as a sin. Even pride for things you do well can be a good thing. If you play football well, and you're on of the best players, then be happy but don't call yourself High and Mighty. Bring other people's self-esteem up to help build yours. Maybe even thank God for your talent, if you have one.. Ex. In church, this woman sang really well, so she sang once in church. "I loved your song," one person had told her, "Thank you, praise God!" She thanked God for her talent while having some pride in what she did, which in this case is a good thing.

QUOTE

Thout shalt not lie yet God tells Issac to kill Abraham just to test his faith! Thats lieing and crule.


Yup, that is cruel and lying. Abraham was even confused. But this was an example to show what God would have to go through one day. God had to sit and watch his only begotten son be tortured for about 2 days while he could do nothing about it. He watched and weeped at his son. What God went through was far worse than what Abraham went through, and what Abraham went through is only a taste of what God went through. Abraham's son never even ending up dying, but it was used as an example of God and Jesus Christ.

QUOTE(Void @ May 1 2006, 06:01 PM) [snapback]389055[/snapback]

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 1 2006, 08:11 PM) [snapback]389028[/snapback]
.

I know a person, and he was a Christian. He believed in God strongly. Then he found porn (a sin) and masturbated (another sin), and his thoughts were "Wow! That feels good! There's no God! I'll do what I want! God's a #%$@&!!"

You're breaking the third commandment. rolleyes.gif


It should be noted that Catholicism is the only Christian sect that considers masturbation to be sinful.



Eh, I'm quoting what a friend said. Whether or not I am breaking a commandment is in God's eyes. And, what's it matter if "Catholicism is the only Christian sect that considers masturbation to be sinful?" I go by what the Bible says, and Catholic and Christian beliefs do share things in common, but some of the things we each believe in are much different. Ex. Purgatory. The "waiting place" you're at before you go to Heaven. (I think Catholics believe in this, or used to.) But, nowhere in the Bible does it say that there is a such thing, and I believe in what the Bible says, and Christianity is the closest to what the Bible believes, and seeing porn and masturbation as a sin is in the Bible (Lust, like mentioned above.)

QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ May 1 2006, 06:21 PM) [snapback]389081[/snapback]

Void, is that link in your sig real?

It scares me.

Look, FMS: I'm sure that your friend enjoys masturbation or whatever, and if his hold on God was so tenuous that it could be shattered by orgasm, then I'm not totally positive that he was terribly religious in the first place.

Do you totally believe in refraining from any masturbation, viewing of pornography, and sex before marriage? Some of that seems silly... I'd also like you to tell me why masturbation is morally wrong. Don't argue porn, there are more than enough cases for that, and even sex before marriage can have some argument, but I'd love to here your stance on masturbation.


Refer back to the above.



And Void, that poem is kind of sick.... blink.gif

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 1 2006, 06:33 PM) [snapback]389094[/snapback]

Bacon, you could have just summed it up without using this as an excuse to quote Monty Python. laugh.gif

But really, just because an individual doesn't have Christianity, or even *gasp* any religion at all, it doesn't mean they are without morals.

And people who 'follow' the bible and 'church rules' sure as heck aren't all the most moral people.


Yep, there are good people out there that might believe in evolution. I even know a few. But, it would be tough for a person who doesn't know the laws of God to know what is right (In my opinion, because I believe in God. Isn't that a shock!) and what is wrong. They have confusion and they do not know the laws of God, so they may have morals that may be right, but they may also have wrong morals, and because they believe in no God they don't need morals, except to obey the laws that the country has, but they don't have everything right either. Ex. In God eyes, porn and masturbation is a sin, and I don't believe our country has anything that says you can't do this. (Unless you're legal age).
MonsterEnvy
Hey, FMS, you talked a lot, but a lot of your premises aren't fact, they're religion. I'd like to see you carry on a true ethical debate about some of these topics, and not a religious one.
Carnal Malefactor
Wow... everything you say just reeks of the most hideous indoctrination imaginable.

I got news for you, buddy, even the Vatican - the freakin' Pope has accepted evolution as a plausible idea. This creationist backlash is nothing but paranoid hysteria.

Oh, and as for masturbation... as you get older, you'll realize that 90% of the time, people do it because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to.
FullMetal Shrimp
Um.. Would you please explain that into further detail? Please point out the things I've said that aren't fact. And, religion can't be fact, well, there is a fact, but no one knows it for sure. You can only think you do, so religion is all opinion, so I don't really know where there can be fact..

If wou wanted some Bible verses, I'm sure I could pull some out.
Ailuro
QUOTE(Void @ May 1 2006, 07:20 PM) [snapback]389130[/snapback]

Wow... everything you say just reeks of the most hideous indoctrination imaginable.

I got news for you, buddy, even the Vatican - the freakin' Pope has accepted evolution as a plausible idea. This creationist backlash is nothing but paranoid hysteria.

Oh, and as for masturbation... as you get older, you'll realize that 90% of the time, people do it because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to.

Catholics believe in evolution as a possible idea, yes. *had to add something to discussion* ph34r.gif
Toby-Chan
People have moral codes that aren't "God's Law".

And really, most sinful lifestyles are carried out under the pretenses of "Well, you know what? I go to church every sunday, and I can recite the prayers, and I can take the sacrement, so just a little greed won't hurt."

Gluttony is also a sin. And yet our country is populated with such sinners, of the literal and figurative kinds; ravenous for all sorts of material things in excess, and yet these are also people who claim they are devout Christians who follow the bible and all that Jazz, when they're really just going through the motions and paying attention to the rules they want to pay attention to in order to make themselves feel better.
Carnal Malefactor
Indeed. Just look at Jerry Falwell. laugh.gif
FullMetal Shrimp
QUOTE(Ailuro @ May 1 2006, 07:24 PM) [snapback]389133[/snapback]

QUOTE(Void @ May 1 2006, 07:20 PM) [snapback]389130[/snapback]

Wow... everything you say just reeks of the most hideous indoctrination imaginable.

I got news for you, buddy, even the Vatican - the freakin' Pope has accepted evolution as a plausible idea. This creationist backlash is nothing but paranoid hysteria.

Oh, and as for masturbation... as you get older, you'll realize that 90% of the time, people do it because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to.

Catholics believe in evolution as a possible idea, yes. *had to add something to discussion* ph34r.gif


I don't know whether evolution is true or not, but I do think that there may be possibility that some of an Evolutionist's beliefs are true. I said this before, but I think of Science as the study of what God made. And as for the Big Bang, I believe in that too. God's all powerful, he said it, and BANG! Everything as we know today formed.

And as for masturbation for being forced to do it, there's something else I should have added to the pride part. Pride in things that you do that are against the will fo God are bad, such as murder and being proud of it and bragging about it (Bragging is also a sin.....) So, if you masturbate because you are forced to do it, then maybe it may not be a sin. I'm not entirely sure about it, though.

And, one more thing I would like to add.

QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 1 2006, 05:27 PM) [snapback]389034[/snapback]

QUOTE
A while back, there used to be Bible time and prayer time in schools. Back then, there were morals because there was the Bible. Now look at today. Don't tell me crimes haven't increased


Crime has been consistantly dropping while press coverage has been vastly increasing.
In Oxford, Uk in the 1500's there were 13 murders a week.
There is far less crime than the media would have you think.


It's not just that, but just compare some things now from many years ago. People were more honorable and polite, and like I said, some things today would be considered unimagineable years ago. An example I hear a lot in my neighbourhood, the "N" word. Years ago an African being called that would be a terrible insult, now people say it freely without any guilt or shame. And back then, the word honor had some meaning to it which has been lost to a lot of people.

Now, I have a really big headache, so I'll respond to any questions or comments tomorrow.
Carnal Malefactor
Don't give me that Zell Miller horseshit. So what if people are using different words? 50 years ago, certain people weren't allowed to vote and had to go to different schools. Society is BETTER now than it was in the past, not worse.

Catholicism condemns masturbation as a sin against nature, which is funny, because it's a completely natural act. Primates and many other mammals masturbate all the time. You know why? Because nature dictates that they have a drive to reproduce, but can't always find a mate with whom to do so. It's the same with humans. Most men can't get a good night's sleep after a certain age unless they do it.

Like I said, you'll learn this as you get older.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 1 2006, 07:26 PM) [snapback]389134[/snapback]

People have moral codes that aren't "God's Law".

And really, most sinful lifestyles are carried out under the pretenses of "Well, you know what? I go to church every sunday, and I can recite the prayers, and I can take the sacrement, so just a little greed won't hurt."

Gluttony is also a sin. And yet our country is populated with such sinners, of the literal and figurative kinds; ravenous for all sorts of material things in excess, and yet these are also people who claim they are devout Christians who follow the bible and all that Jazz, when they're really just going through the motions and paying attention to the rules they want to pay attention to in order to make themselves feel better.

Pretty much.

I truely believe that, except for the few that seek it out, there's really no such thing as a Christian anymore. At least true Chrsitians who really and truely follow the teachings of Jesus. One of the things it says in the bible is "ye shall not judge" yet kristians are always damming people to hell. I was reciently told I was going to hell for praticing buddhism.

I heard my "Christian" friend refer to a black person as a n**ger. Is that a christian attitude? I don't think so.

Such a thing is dead in our society, people only say they're christians because everyone else is and god forbid if they are different than anybody else. They might go to hell or some other such bullsh*t.
Carnal Malefactor
There's Christianity, then there's Cretinism... 95% of self-professed Christians are actually Cretins.
Lone Wolf
I've been reading everyone's posts and Envy's lil' miniskirt's last post struck me. I have to admit, I agree with you. Many, many Christians today don't have a Christ-like attitude. I'd like to apologize for that. I've had times where I had a bad attitude towards others, and it was in those times that I was being least like a Christian. I'm sorry for anything I've said, and I'm sorry for the way I have been sometimes.

I don't always agree with everyone on this site, but I do have to agree on some things. I don't like it that even Christians resort to cursing and name-calling sometimes. I understand that Christians have (and may) tell you that you're going to hell. I don't approve of that. Whether it be the truth or not, I'd much rather tell someone of Jesus' love for them, rather than tell them, "You're going to hell."

I'll try not to be as quick to judge, but I ask you to do the same. Again, I apologize for the way some Christians behave, but I can tell you, for certain, that not all Christians are that way.

Thanks for hearing me out, I hope I didn't bore anyone... smile.gif
Popogeejo
QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 03:40 AM) [snapback]389144[/snapback]

QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 1 2006, 05:27 PM) [snapback]389034[/snapback]

QUOTE
A while back, there used to be Bible time and prayer time in schools. Back then, there were morals because there was the Bible. Now look at today. Don't tell me crimes haven't increased


Crime has been consistantly dropping while press coverage has been vastly increasing.
In Oxford, Uk in the 1500's there were 13 murders a week.
There is far less crime than the media would have you think.


It's not just that, but just compare some things now from many years ago. People were more hounorable and polite, and like I said, some things today would be considered unimagineable years ago. An example I hear a lot in my neighbourhood, the "N" word. Years ago an African being called that would be a terrible insult, now people say it freely without any guilt or shame. And back then, the word honor had some meaning to it which has been lost to a lot of people.

Now, I have a really big headache, so I'll respond to any questions or comments tomorrow.



People weren't hounrable back in then any way. People were made slaves, murder was far more common because we didn't have the police methods we now have and political heads were far more currupt because they were "working for God" so no-one questioned them. Everything was far worse by todays sandards. The problem is that we aren't all taught this so alot of people think all our ancestors were very nice chaps who wouldn't do wrong while today we're one step away from complete deprevity.

WARNING: SWEAR WORDS AHEAD

The "N" word you are refering to as being used is nigga right? That term is used by the black community who decided to make it their word. The "N" word that was used in the past was Nigger which was a derogartory term. The fact of the matter is that the word "nigga" doesn't hold the same weight it used too becasue it's used by both black and white people.
Even the "C" word (which I won't type becasue apprently it's the worst word ever) is being used more. Some feminists even wan't it to be th female equivilent of the word "Cock" which makes alot sense.
Swear words are more common today because people realised they were just words with meanings fewer and fewers people know.
Carnal Malefactor
...your spelling is dreadful.
Popogeejo
I posted that 15 minutes after I woke up.I'll fix it later...or now.
I'm trying and atleast you can tell what I mean for the most part.
Sharingan Serpent
Why do people believe in these things? I mean no ones going to save them when it comes down to the final hour and their praying for forgiveness...does believing in something make them keep going?

I don't get it...
FullMetal Shrimp
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ May 1 2006, 07:59 PM) [snapback]389161[/snapback]

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 1 2006, 07:26 PM) [snapback]389134[/snapback]

People have moral codes that aren't "God's Law".

And really, most sinful lifestyles are carried out under the pretenses of "Well, you know what? I go to church every sunday, and I can recite the prayers, and I can take the sacrement, so just a little greed won't hurt."

Gluttony is also a sin. And yet our country is populated with such sinners, of the literal and figurative kinds; ravenous for all sorts of material things in excess, and yet these are also people who claim they are devout Christians who follow the bible and all that Jazz, when they're really just going through the motions and paying attention to the rules they want to pay attention to in order to make themselves feel better.

Pretty much.

I truely believe that, except for the few that seek it out, there's really no such thing as a Christian anymore. At least true Chrsitians who really and truely follow the teachings of Jesus. One of the things it says in the bible is "ye shall not judge" yet kristians are always damming people to hell. I was reciently told I was going to hell for praticing buddhism.

I heard my "Christian" friend refer to a black person as a n**ger. Is that a christian attitude? I don't think so.

Such a thing is dead in our society, people only say they're christians because everyone else is and god forbid if they are different than anybody else. They might go to hell or some other such bullsh*t.


You're absolutely right. Many Christians are hypocrites, they say one thing but do another. But just because someone goes to Church that doesn't make them perfect. Heck, we had a 15 year old girl in our church that smokes. My friend who's 13 was gonna lose his virginity (thank God he didn't), and some people even curse while they're at church, which doing that is a terrible thing. But, there are also good Christians too. And remember this, that just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean they don't do things like your average sinner, we make mistakes too, but one of the goals of Christianity is to become "Christ-like", and not everyone is Christ-like, not even close, and there are others who are far off away from Christianity. It's just like there can be good evolutionists, and bad evolutionists, and there could be good Christians, and bad Christians.

And about going to hell because you're a Buddhist, I don't really agree with that. You said you were a Christian at one time, right? Then, if you said the prayer of accepting Jesus, then you should still be going to Heaven. And, a Christian that says their a Christian but doesn't know the reason why they are, is truly an idiot.
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ May 1 2006, 07:59 PM) [snapback]389161[/snapback]

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 1 2006, 07:26 PM) [snapback]389134[/snapback]

People have moral codes that aren't "God's Law".

And really, most sinful lifestyles are carried out under the pretenses of "Well, you know what? I go to church every sunday, and I can recite the prayers, and I can take the sacrement, so just a little greed won't hurt."

Gluttony is also a sin. And yet our country is populated with such sinners, of the literal and figurative kinds; ravenous for all sorts of material things in excess, and yet these are also people who claim they are devout Christians who follow the bible and all that Jazz, when they're really just going through the motions and paying attention to the rules they want to pay attention to in order to make themselves feel better.

Pretty much.

I truely believe that, except for the few that seek it out, there's really no such thing as a Christian anymore. At least true Chrsitians who really and truely follow the teachings of Jesus. One of the things it says in the bible is "ye shall not judge" yet kristians are always damming people to hell. I was reciently told I was going to hell for praticing buddhism.

I heard my "Christian" friend refer to a black person as a n**ger. Is that a christian attitude? I don't think so.

Such a thing is dead in our society, people only say they're christians because everyone else is and god forbid if they are different than anybody else. They might go to hell or some other such bullsh*t.


You're absolutely right. Many Christians are hypocrites, they say one thing but do another. But just because someone goes to Church that doesn't make them perfect. Heck, we had a 15 year old girl in our church that smokes. My friend who's 13 was gonna lose his virginity (thank God he didn't), and some people even curse while they're at church, which doing that is a terrible thing. But, there are also good Christians too. And remember this, that just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean they don't do things like your average sinner, we make mistakes too, but one of the goals of Christianity is to become "Christ-like", and not everyone is Christ-like, not even close, and there are others who are far off away from Christianity. It's just like there can be good evolutionists, and bad evolutionists, and there could be good Christians, and bad Christians.

And about going to hell because you're a Buddhist, I don't really agree with that. You said you were a Christian at one time, right? Then, if you said the prayer of accepting Jesus, then you should still be going to Heaven. And, a Christian that says their a Christian but doesn't know the reason why they are, is truly an idiot.

QUOTE(Lone Wolf @ May 1 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]389238[/snapback]

I understand that Christians have (and may) tell you that you're going to hell. I don't approve of that. Whether it be the truth or not, I'd much rather tell someone of Jesus' love for them, rather than tell them, "You're going to hell."


Hmm... Although trying to get someone saved by telling them that they're going to hell isn't the best way to do it, sometimes it may be the truth. I'd also rather have someone try to get someone else saved by asking questions like "Did you know Jesus loves you?" "If you died right now, do you know where you would go?" But in some cases, telling someone they may go to Hell may be a good way to get someone saved, but it shouldn't be the main way that you approach someone because there are better ways to do it.

MonsterEnvy
QUOTE(Lone Wolf @ May 2 2006, 01:17 AM) [snapback]389238[/snapback]

I've been reading everyone's posts and Envy's lil' miniskirt's last post struck me. I have to admit, I agree with you. Many, many Christians today don't have a Christ-like attitude. I'd like to apologize for that. I've had times where I had a bad attitude towards others, and it was in those times that I was being least like a Christian. I'm sorry for anything I've said, and I'm sorry for the way I have been sometimes.

I don't always agree with everyone on this site, but I do have to agree on some things. I don't like it that even Christians resort to cursing and name-calling sometimes. I understand that Christians have (and may) tell you that you're going to hell. I don't approve of that. Whether it be the truth or not, I'd much rather tell someone of Jesus' love for them, rather than tell them, "You're going to hell."

I'll try not to be as quick to judge, but I ask you to do the same. Again, I apologize for the way some Christians behave, but I can tell you, for certain, that not all Christians are that way.

Thanks for hearing me out, I hope I didn't bore anyone... smile.gif

*claps*

That's a true Christian attitude that seems to be lost on a lot of people today. So many 'Christians' think that as long as they believe that God thinks what they're doing is right, they'll go to heaven, are hopelessly misguided. The 'better than thou' attitude held by many people simply because they believe in 'the true God' without taking a look at the fact that they're killing people or hurting people because of what they decided was right and they justify it by saying that God believes in it. they disregard the bible and all religious teachings... for example, people bomb abortion clinics claiming that it's 'the will of God' but never wonder that God would want doctors and girls slaughtered to... protect lives?

FMS has also said something to a similar effect. The true principles of Christianity have been so lost in the muddle and religious mucking about that a number of people have become disenfranchised with it. Sometimes, it seems like there are mainly only staunch Catholics and redneck lunatics practicing Christianity now, because those that do it correctly do it peacefully and don't make the news.

[/rant]
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Lone Wolf @ May 1 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]389238[/snapback]

I've been reading everyone's posts and Envy's lil' miniskirt's last post struck me. I have to admit, I agree with you. Many, many Christians today don't have a Christ-like attitude. I'd like to apologize for that. I've had times where I had a bad attitude towards others, and it was in those times that I was being least like a Christian. I'm sorry for anything I've said, and I'm sorry for the way I have been sometimes.

I don't always agree with everyone on this site, but I do have to agree on some things. I don't like it that even Christians resort to cursing and name-calling sometimes. I understand that Christians have (and may) tell you that you're going to hell. I don't approve of that. Whether it be the truth or not, I'd much rather tell someone of Jesus' love for them, rather than tell them, "You're going to hell."

I'll try not to be as quick to judge, but I ask you to do the same. Again, I apologize for the way some Christians behave, but I can tell you, for certain, that not all Christians are that way.

Thanks for hearing me out, I hope I didn't bore anyone... smile.gif

No apology necessary at least you know the difference.

I know there are real christians out there but like M.E. said, they are praticing quietly and not shouting hate slogans in the faces of others so thats why we don't notice them unless we meet them and get to know them in real life. Bad Christians are like bad lawyers, they're loud and very noticeable unlike the good quite ones.

Even though there are people out there who are true Christians, it has been twisted by the general populace to better suit their needs. It seems more christians pratice intollerance and hate rather than love and understanding. I have a friend who became a more hard core christian not long ago when she was "normal" she was a more tolerent person. Now that she has embraced Christanity she has become intollerent of others beliefs and lifestyles. In other words, the more christian she becomes the less christian she acts.

The hypocricy of the Christian church finally made me run from it hopefully you can find other real christians to pratice your faith with but they can take a long time to find.
Toby-Chan
QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 08:35 AM) [snapback]389375[/snapback]

And about going to hell because you're a Buddhist, I don't really agree with that. You said you were a Christian at one time, right? Then, if you said the prayer of accepting Jesus, then you should still be going to Heaven.



See, that's one thing I think is totally silly about organized religion in general. 'Just say the prayer', and it's all okay. That is a ridiculous way of going about things. It's like establishing the law that claims if you recite the pledge of allegiance, then you're a good citizen, and you get to stay out of jail.

And does that mean that any person who has lived in relative isolation with a non-christian faith (Think a remote tribe in Africa for example), and never said the proper prayers, or splashed themselves in holy water, or made the sign of the cross; does that mean they're never going to make it to heaven? What kind of rules are those?
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 2 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]389478[/snapback]

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 08:35 AM) [snapback]389375[/snapback]

And about going to hell because you're a Buddhist, I don't really agree with that. You said you were a Christian at one time, right? Then, if you said the prayer of accepting Jesus, then you should still be going to Heaven.



See, that's one thing I think is totally silly about organized religion in general. 'Just say the prayer', and it's all okay. That is a ridiculous way of going about things. It's like establishing the law that claims if you recite the pledge of allegiance, then you're a good citizen, and you get to stay out of jail.

And does that mean that any person who has lived in relative isolation with a non-christian faith (Think a remote tribe in Africa for example), and never said the proper prayers, or splashed themselves in holy water, or made the sign of the cross; does that mean they're never going to make it to heaven? What kind of rules are those?

LOL I missed that.

So I guess if I became a Satanist instead I would still go to heaven since I was once a christian and said the right prayer?

I've had the "what if a good person lived in some remote area and never heard of god" debate with people before. This is the reason I believe there is no "real" religion. People seem to pratice faith according to their suroundings and upbringing. In this modern age if information people can better choose what system of belief, if any, the would like to persue.

Many religions say basically the same thing. Be a good person, follow these rules for living and you will lead a happy life and be rewarded in the afterlife be it heaven or reincarnation. In fact, there are many similarities in the teachings of Buddha and Jesus.

Is anybody here a Muslim or really familiar with the teachings of Mohammad? I would like to do some comparing. We can compare and contrast other prophets as well.
phoenix dying
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ May 2 2006, 02:54 PM) [snapback]389487[/snapback]

Is anybody here a Muslim or really familiar with the teachings of Mohammad? I would like to do some comparing. We can compare and contrast other prophets as well.

that would almost be enjoyable...but there are a lot of profits for each religion. Or we going for the founders? blink.gif Cause Mohammad was a prophet of the religion "he"/allah created, right? Jesus did the whole christianty thingy. Abraham started the jewish people off...<-- i worded this entire sentance wrong but i don't feel like correcting myself
FullMetal Shrimp
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ May 2 2006, 01:03 PM) [snapback]389463[/snapback]

I know there are real christians out there but like ME said, they are praticing quietly and not shouting hate slogans in the faces of others so thats why we don't notice them unless we meet them and get to know them in real life. Bad Christians are like bad lawyers, they're loud and very noticeable unlike the good quite ones.

Even though there are people out there who are true Christians, it has been twisted by the general populace to better suit their needs. It seems more christians pratice intollerance and hate rather than love and understanding. I have a friend who became a more hard core christian not long ago when she was "normal" she was a more tolerent person. Now that she has embraced Christanity she has become intollerent of others beliefs and lifestyles. In other words, the more christian she becomes the less christian she acts.

The hypocricy of the Christian church finally made me run from it hopefully you can fine other real christians to pratice your faith with but they can take a long time to find.

Most of what Envy's lil' miniskirt' is true. I don't know how Christians can be hypocrites, though, so if you could please explain that...

And yeah, it is hard to find the right church with a Godly pastor and accepting followers, I've even heard a pastor curse during one of his sermons. And, the Christians that don't go around spreading hate messages and pray in silence rather than trying to show off their knowledge in front of other people are the best kind, and the ones who don't act like they know everything (Sorry if I acted like this, don't know if I have, though).

And, Popo said that there aren't more crimes, that the times we live in are more safe then ever. What Popo says scares me, and I'll tell you why a little further in my post. And Popo, maybe there haven't been more crimes, but surely there have been more sin, which in time may lead to crime. Just look at some of today's children, they have foul mouths, and some of them go out and have sex. Having a foul mouth is a sin, and against the Bible, so is having sex without marraige. Things you see that are against the Bible are happening, and the funny thing is, the Bible said that they would.

Starting with Matthew 24:3. (Words that have been added for the verses to make sense are done in itallics, words that Jesus speaks are in bold, words of my own are in ().)

3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man decieve you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall decieve many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (Iran has nucleur weapons, Iraq was said to have some too. And don't forget the Cold war, and others too!)
7. For nations shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places. (There are many famines, maybe not in the USA because we're pretty lucky, but many of them are around, and people die of starvation every day. And pestilences, just look at the AIDS virus for one, and so many others.)
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you; and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (Christians are being hated by many people. Look at the muslims for one, they despise Christians.)
10. And then many shall be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. (Hate is very very much alive in the world today.)
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall decieve many. ((You have seen this being done. Just take Muhammad, for one. I think that's how you spell it, anyway...But it's what the Muslims believe in, and he decieved many people and now there's a religion just for his false teachings!)
12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (Sin/iniquity has made the hearts of many become cold,)

And the list goes on. These are things you see in todays world. This isn't something you can ignor or deny.

And now even more verses starting with 2 Timothy 3, how exciting, right?

1. This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy. (Look at how much people love themselves more than other, the greed and the envy. People boast and brag about how good they are, and children are terrible to their parents.)
3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good.
4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than God. (Lovers of pleasure more than God... Sex without marraige, masturbation, and even other things that aren't sex related.)

And the list of other prophecies go on and on and on. I'll keep posting if you all want me to.

And now about the reason why of what popo said scares me, that we're much safer than we were in the past.

1 Thessalonians 5:3

3. For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction upon them, as travial upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape.

This means possibly that people will say we are at peace and safety, and this is what popo said, someone that does not believe in God, that Jesus will come. And with what he said and all the things mentioned above, it makes me think Jesus is coming again soon, not that it would matter for any of you evolutionists, though.


Toby-Chan
QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 02:30 PM) [snapback]389502[/snapback]

Having a foul mouth is a sin, and against the Bible, so is having sex without marraige. Things you see that are against the Bible are happening, and the funny thing is, the Bible said that they would.


What I want to know is- Where is the moral outrage about women wearing clothing that pertains to a man (Like pants and ties and business suits), and golden jewelery, and wearing cotton with wool, and consuming pork? WHERE IS THE MORAL OUTRAGE? If you claim to be opposed to anything the bible says is forbidden, then you should be against these things as well, yes?
MonsterEnvy
Fullmetal Shrimp.

i will reiterate my problem with your posts yet again.

You continue to cite the Bible as blatant fact, while it's actually a compilation of translations, agendas, and various other people's ideas. It's just a damn book! I'd be really interested in hearing your philosophy and things, but don't use bible verses to foretell armegeddon. Not everyone believes that the Bible is any type of a credible source, so use verses to describe what you believe, but don't prresent the Bible as an argument. It's a source for moral and ethical development in society, not a point in and of itself.

Anyway, hypocritical christians are those who say things like 'I think that Jesus was right and good, and all his teachings are true, like 'Love your enemy as you love yourself' and then go out and bomb an abortion clinic or somesuch. They're just like hypocritical muslims who crash planes into buildings.

Incidentally, i am familiar with islam, so you can ask me questions if necessary. I try to keep up to date in a number of subjects, especially world religion and philosophy.
Popogeejo
QUOTE
Most of what Envy's lil' miniskirt' is true. I don't know how Christians can be hypocrites, though, so if you could please explain that...


Head > slam > desk

Christian:You're going to hell for being gay!
Same Christian: Judge not lest ye be judged. Forgiveness! Understanding!

I'd also note Mr Shrimp that the passage you quoted is retarded. It predicts things that were inevitable. It may just have well predicted the Sun rising for all the phrophetic power it has.

QUOTE
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you; and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (Christians are being hated by many people. Look at the muslims for one, they despise Christians.)


And alot of Christian's also hate Muslims. No ground broken here.

QUOTE
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall decieve many. ((You have seen this being done. Just take Muhammad, for one. I think that's how you spell it, anyway...But it's what the Muslims believe in, and he decieved many people and now there's a religion just for his false teachings!)


HYPOCRYT!(sp?)
The Catholic church does the exact same thing! You can say the exact same about Jesus.
Toby-Chan
I know a small amount about Islam, as I did a report on it when I was 13. (Four and a half years or so ago)

I do recall in particular some passages from the Qu'ran that claimed something along the lines of "It is unlawful that one should opress women, children, the old, the disabled or any other that is weaker." Then how do the conservatives excuse using brutal tactics to ensure that women stay in line and obedient and generally miserable and subhuman?

It's really sad the way people abuse religions and bend them to such sickenening degrees, that it's hard to even spot the good intentions they were founded with before the contortions.

--

Addendum-


Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.
--- From the Qur'an (109:1-6, "Al-Kafirun")
MonsterEnvy
Personally, I would convert to Islam a lot faster than I would to Christianity. In the Qu'ran, it says that 'the just will be saved' as opposed to 'whoever does all the stuff i say that you should is going to go to heaven, hands down.' The Five Pillars consist of both ways to be just, and ways to respect God, His teachings, and His last prophet. It's really a pretty nice religion- all it does is define 'just' and say 'go out and be good to your neighbors, let others practice freely, submit to the Will of God.'

Yep, it's been bastardized horrendously.

I try to do the same sort of thing except without the God stuff...

Incidentally, in 'true' Islam Jesus is regarded almost as highly as Muhammed. He was 'the second-to-last' prophet. The Qu'ran is really the Newest Testament, if you want to put it that way. All of the prophets from Moses and everyone in the Torah and Old Testament to Muhammed in the Qu'ran are equally important, it's just that all of those teachings were bastardized as well. (Jesus is a great example. Christianity has been corrupted even more than Judaism and 'prophet offshoots')

Unfortunately, just like the rest of the prophets Muhammed's teachings were corrupted too into the disgusting pseudo-islam we've come to know and love as the archenemy of the bush administration. However, it's sort of like Christianity- there are still the 'closet muslims' who don't get press coverage because they don't blow themselves up and practice their religion correctly.
Toby-Chan
I think the general interpretation of Christian belief is summed up best by a guy I know-

"Dear humans,

I love you very much.

But if you don't love me back, I'll *%$#ing kill you forever!

Love, God."
Envy's lil' miniskirt
This is sort of what I was talking about.

I'm swamped here at the hell hole so I can't do any serious research but the above link touches on what I was talking about and may open some discussion.
FullMetal Shrimp
QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 2 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]389515[/snapback]

QUOTE
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you; and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (Christians are being hated by many people. Look at the muslims for one, they despise Christians.)


And alot of Christian's also hate Muslims. No ground broken here.


No, not true. Some may hate muslims, yes, but a true Christian does not. I don't hate Muslims, if I knew one I would think of them as people that fight for what they believe in in order to get to their ideal Heaven. I love the muslim people, but I hate their religion. If I was confronted with a muslim I would feel more fear than hate, and not hate at all.

QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 2 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]389515[/snapback]

QUOTE
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall decieve many. ((You have seen this being done. Just take Muhammad, for one. I think that's how you spell it, anyway...But it's what the Muslims believe in, and he decieved many people and now there's a religion just for his false teachings!)


HYPOCRYT!(sp?)
The Catholic church does the exact same thing! You can say the exact same about Jesus.


But because I believe in the Bible, I believe that the Muslim religion is a false teaching, because I think that some of the things they teach are absurd.

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 2 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]389510[/snapback]

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 02:30 PM) [snapback]389502[/snapback]

Having a foul mouth is a sin, and against the Bible, so is having sex without marraige. Things you see that are against the Bible are happening, and the funny thing is, the Bible said that they would.


What I want to know is- Where is the moral outrage about women wearing clothing that pertains to a man (Like pants and ties and business suits), and golden jewelery, and wearing cotton with wool, and consuming pork? WHERE IS THE MORAL OUTRAGE? If you claim to be opposed to anything the bible says is forbidden, then you should be against these things as well, yes?


Uhm, please tell me where exactly the Bible says wearing golden jewelry and consuming pork is a sin, because it isn't. God does say however that putting anything up in front of him is a sin. Ex. Becoming obsessed with jewelry that you no longer have any time for God.

QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ May 2 2006, 03:24 PM) [snapback]389525[/snapback]

Personally, I would convert to Islam a lot faster than I would to Christianity. In the Qu'ran, it says that 'the just will be saved' as opposed to 'whoever does all the stuff i say that you should is going to go to heaven, hands down.' The Five Pillars consist of both ways to be just, and ways to respect God, His teachings, and His last prophet. It's really a pretty nice religion- all it does is define 'just' and say 'go out and be good to your neighbors, let others practice freely, submit to the Will of God.'

Yep, it's been bastardized horrendously.

I try to do the same sort of thing except without the God stuff...

Incidentally, in 'true' Islam Jesus is regarded almost as highly as Muhammed. He was 'the second-to-last' prophet. The Qu'ran is really the Newest Testament, if you want to put it that way. All of the prophets from Moses and everyone in the Torah and Old Testament to Muhammed in the Qu'ran are equally important, it's just that all of those teachings were bastardized as well. (Jesus is a great example. Christianity has been corrupted even more than Judaism and 'prophet offshoots')

Unfortunately, just like the rest of the prophets Muhammed's teachings were corrupted too into the disgusting pseudo-islam we've come to know and love as the archenemy of the bush administration. However, it's sort of like Christianity- there are still the 'closet muslims' who don't get press coverage because they don't blow themselves up and practice their religion correctly.


Wow, this is exactly what I mean as false teaching and false prophets, ever worse, other people would rather believe in that rather than Christianity, and I think it's sad that people blow themselves up thinking it would get them to Heaven, but I don't remember a Christian doing something like this. And what does the Qur'an say about getting to Heaven? Please tell me that.

Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.
--- From the Qur'an (109:1-6, "Al-Kafirun")

From what I got out of that, the Muslims couldn't care less about getting people to their religion. It shows you how selfish and greedy they really are. Christians at least go around and try to get other people to Heaven, while the Muslims only hate. You may see a Christian witnessing to a Muslim, but I doubt you'd ever see a Muslim witnessing to a Christian.

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 2 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]389478[/snapback]

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 08:35 AM) [snapback]389375[/snapback]

And about going to hell because you're a Buddhist, I don't really agree with that. You said you were a Christian at one time, right? Then, if you said the prayer of accepting Jesus, then you should still be going to Heaven.



See, that's one thing I think is totally silly about organized religion in general. 'Just say the prayer', and it's all okay. That is a ridiculous way of going about things. It's like establishing the law that claims if you recite the pledge of allegiance, then you're a good citizen, and you get to stay out of jail.

And does that mean that any person who has lived in relative isolation with a non-christian faith (Think a remote tribe in Africa for example), and never said the proper prayers, or splashed themselves in holy water, or made the sign of the cross; does that mean they're never going to make it to heaven? What kind of rules are those?



No, you say the prayer with your heart open to God and you go to heaven. There's a difference of saying something and actually meaning it. And, you don't have to splash yourself with holy water or make a sign of the cross. Where the heck did you get that from? You're making stuff up.

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 2 2006, 04:05 PM) [snapback]389533[/snapback]

I think the general interpretation of Christian belief is summed up best by a guy I know-

"Dear humans,

I love you very much.

But if you don't love me back, I'll *%$#ing kill you forever!

Love, God."


This is something worth mentioning. It even confuses me sometimes. But, think of it like this.

You're child is out playing somewhere, (Just pretend you have a child, for now), and you go to pick him/her up. Then you're walking down the street and there's two streets, one at the left, one at the right. You hear some kid you don't know to your left crying for help that's on the street when a car is not too far off, and that child may get killed. Then, you see your child on the right side that has a broken leg on the street. On the sides of that street where your child is at, there are people to the side laughing and spitting and riddiculing him until he dies, they won't even help him, they don't even want to. They even go up to him and slap him, and they laugh. The kid on the left side that you don't know is also laughing at your child. Strangely enough, your child tells you to rescue the child on the left, and forget about him, and sadly enough you must, and so you rescue the child you don't know and your child gets run over, and people still laugh.

It's something like that. Because then all the things that Jesus went through would be for nothing. And God doesn't tell people to love him back, he only asks you to pray a simple prayer of forgiveness and mean it. Nothing else. Jesus' death would be in vain, and his life would have no purpose. Just look back at that example. I mean, wouldn't you have wanted to kill all those people that laughed at your child? But, luckily enough, God forgives those people if they ask for it, and he gives everyone a chance. Sometimes I don't even understand God, but he's God and he knows everything.
Carnal Malefactor
[sigh]

Can I get rid of you yet? I'd really like to. dry.gif
Popogeejo
QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 3 2006, 12:46 AM) [snapback]389549[/snapback]

QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 2 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]389515[/snapback]

QUOTE
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you; and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (Christians are being hated by many people. Look at the muslims for one, they despise Christians.)


And alot of Christian's also hate Muslims. No ground broken here.


No, not true. Some may hate muslims, yes, but a true Christian does not. I don't hate Muslims, if I knew one I would think of them as people that fight for what they believe in in order to get to their ideal Heaven. I love the muslim people, but I hate their religion. If I was confronted with a muslim I would feel more fear than hate, and not hate at all.


Not all Muslims hate Christians. I've been to school where almost a quarter the student body is muslim and their is no problems regarding religion.

QUOTE
QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 2 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]389515[/snapback]

QUOTE
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall decieve many. ((You have seen this being done. Just take Muhammad, for one. I think that's how you spell it, anyway...But it's what the Muslims believe in, and he decieved many people and now there's a religion just for his false teachings!)


HYPOCRYT!(sp?)
The Catholic church does the exact same thing! You can say the exact same about Jesus.


But because I believe in the Bible, I believe that the Muslim religion is a false teaching, because I think that some of the things they teach are absurd.


So you're saying yuo are a hypocrite?

QUOTE
QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ May 2 2006, 03:24 PM) [snapback]389525[/snapback]
<SNIP>


Wow, this is exactly what I mean as false teaching and false prophets, ever worse, other people would rather believe in that rather than Christianity, and I think it's sad that people blow themselves up thinking it would get them to Heaven, but I don't remember a Christian doing something like this. And what does the Qur'an say about getting to Heaven? Please tell me that.

Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.
--- From the Qur'an (109:1-6, "Al-Kafirun")

From what I got out of that, the Muslims couldn't care less about getting people to their religion. It shows you how selfish and greedy they really are. Christians at least go around and try to get other people to Heaven, while the Muslims only hate. You may see a Christian witnessing to a Muslim, but I doubt you'd ever see a Muslim witnessing to a Christian.


I think thats a misinterprataion on your part their mate.
From what my Muslim friends have said it means they won't go around Shoving their views in your face. Anyone can join the faith but they won't force or even encourage/discourage you.


QUOTE
You're child is out playing somewhere, (Just pretend you have a child, for now), and you go to pick him/her up. Then you're walking down the street and there's two streets, one at the left, one at the right. You hear some kid you don't know to your left crying for help that's on the street when a car is not too far off, and that child may get killed. Then, you see your child on the right side that has a broken leg on the street. On the sides of that street where your child is at, there are people to the side laughing and spitting and riddiculing him until he dies, they won't even help him, they don't even want to. They even go up to him and slap him, and they laugh. The kid on the left side that you don't know is also laughing at your child. Strangely enough, your child tells you to rescue the child on the left, and forget about him, and sadly enough you must, and so you rescue the child you don't know and your child gets run over, and people still laugh.


Wow, Just Wow...
Josef Goebbels would be proud of you. That has to be the biggest bit of Emotional manipulation since "Triumph of the will"
I mean come on, that metaphore sucks. Jesus is represented by our child with the broken leg being laughed at. poor baby. Lets call the care police.
I also see we are supposed to be the child in danger but mocking Jesus child. Well I guess our only hope is god, eh? WRONG!"
We can easily help ourselves without an entirely fictional being who seem's more concered with catching us in loop holes rather thn help HIS son who is aprently in worse truoble than us.

Come up with a less pretencious metaphore and then we can discuss things properly.
MonsterEnvy
QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]389549[/snapback]

QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 2 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]389515[/snapback]

QUOTE
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you; and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (Christians are being hated by many people. Look at the muslims for one, they despise Christians.)


And alot of Christian's also hate Muslims. No ground broken here.


No, not true. Some may hate muslims, yes, but a true Christian does not. I don't hate Muslims, if I knew one I would think of them as people that fight for what they believe in in order to get to their ideal Heaven. I love the muslim people, but I hate their religion. If I was confronted with a muslim I would feel more fear than hate, and not hate at all.


And not all muslims hate Christians. Don't stereotype either way.

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]389549[/snapback]

QUOTE(popogeejo @ May 2 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]389515[/snapback]

QUOTE
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall decieve many. ((You have seen this being done. Just take Muhammad, for one. I think that's how you spell it, anyway...But it's what the Muslims believe in, and he decieved many people and now there's a religion just for his false teachings!)


HYPOCRYT!(sp?)
The Catholic church does the exact same thing! You can say the exact same about Jesus.


But because I believe in the Bible, I believe that the Muslim religion is a false teaching, because I think that some of the things they teach are absurd.



Such as? Please give some examples of absurd teachings. Remember: Don't use examples from the extremists we see in the news who force women to hide their faces. This is not in accordance with the teachings of Islam.

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]389549[/snapback]

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 2 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]389510[/snapback]

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 02:30 PM) [snapback]389502[/snapback]

Having a foul mouth is a sin, and against the Bible, so is having sex without marraige. Things you see that are against the Bible are happening, and the funny thing is, the Bible said that they would.


What I want to know is- Where is the moral outrage about women wearing clothing that pertains to a man (Like pants and ties and business suits), and golden jewelery, and wearing cotton with wool, and consuming pork? WHERE IS THE MORAL OUTRAGE? If you claim to be opposed to anything the bible says is forbidden, then you should be against these things as well, yes?


Uhm, please tell me where exactly the Bible says wearing golden jewelry and consuming pork is a sin, because it isn't. God does say however that putting anything up in front of him is a sin. Ex. Becoming obsessed with jewelry that you no longer have any time for God.


The Torah says both of those things are sins- you must eat kosher food and must not depict saints or prophets or make art. It's right out of the Old Testament.



QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]389549[/snapback]

QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ May 2 2006, 03:24 PM) [snapback]389525[/snapback]

Personally, I would convert to Islam a lot faster than I would to Christianity. In the Qu'ran, it says that 'the just will be saved' as opposed to 'whoever does all the stuff i say that you should is going to go to heaven, hands down.' The Five Pillars consist of both ways to be just, and ways to respect God, His teachings, and His last prophet. It's really a pretty nice religion- all it does is define 'just' and say 'go out and be good to your neighbors, let others practice freely, submit to the Will of God.'

Yep, it's been bastardized horrendously.

I try to do the same sort of thing except without the God stuff...

Incidentally, in 'true' Islam Jesus is regarded almost as highly as Muhammed. He was 'the second-to-last' prophet. The Qu'ran is really the Newest Testament, if you want to put it that way. All of the prophets from Moses and everyone in the Torah and Old Testament to Muhammed in the Qu'ran are equally important, it's just that all of those teachings were bastardized as well. (Jesus is a great example. Christianity has been corrupted even more than Judaism and 'prophet offshoots')

Unfortunately, just like the rest of the prophets Muhammed's teachings were corrupted too into the disgusting pseudo-islam we've come to know and love as the archenemy of the bush administration. However, it's sort of like Christianity- there are still the 'closet muslims' who don't get press coverage because they don't blow themselves up and practice their religion correctly.

Wow, this is exactly what I mean as false teaching and false prophets, ever worse, other people would rather believe in that rather than Christianity, and I think it's sad that people blow themselves up thinking it would get them to Heaven, but I don't remember a Christian doing something like this. And what does the Qur'an say about getting to Heaven? Please tell me that.

Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.
--- From the Qur'an (109:1-6, "Al-Kafirun")

From what I got out of that, the Muslims couldn't care less about getting people to their religion. It shows you how selfish and greedy they really are. Christians at least go around and try to get other people to Heaven, while the Muslims only hate. You may see a Christian witnessing to a Muslim, but I doubt you'd ever see a Muslim witnessing to a Christian.


Yay, a personal rebuttal!
Lots and lots of Christians have done things akin to blowing themselves up and worse in the name of Christ- they've blown up abortion clinics, burned books, and gone on the Crusades where they butchered huge numbers of Muslims and Jews because they were living in Jerusalem. It wasn't convert or die, it was die... or die.

Muslims don't 'witness' or try too hard to convert people for a few reasons: One, because they know that it's futile for some people. There will always be hardcore agnostics like me and other people who simply enjoy to argue the point but wouldn't convert even if Satan arrived at my doorstep and told me it was Judgment Day. At that point, I'd ask him to prove that he was a) a demon, b ) really from hell, and c) that it was actually judgment day.

Anyway, they also don't try to convert people because for them conversion IS NOT NECESSARY. You get into the Muslim heaven by good works and being a good and just person, not necessarily following certain silly practices or saying words. There are various religious practices in Islam, but they're mainly to commemorate the religion and the prophet and history, and to show respect to Allah, not to attempt to gain Allah's favor by praising him or saying good things. You've actually got to live it, not just pay lip service to the relition.

Don't say that 'muslims only hate.' Generalizations like that make your points sound even less well thought out, if such a thing is possible.
QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]389549[/snapback]
QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 2 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]389478[/snapback]

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 08:35 AM) [snapback]389375[/snapback]

And about going to hell because you're a Buddhist, I don't really agree with that. You said you were a Christian at one time, right? Then, if you said the prayer of accepting Jesus, then you should still be going to Heaven.



See, that's one thing I think is totally silly about organized religion in general. 'Just say the prayer', and it's all okay. That is a ridiculous way of going about things. It's like establishing the law that claims if you recite the pledge of allegiance, then you're a good citizen, and you get to stay out of jail.

And does that mean that any person who has lived in relative isolation with a non-christian faith (Think a remote tribe in Africa for example), and never said the proper prayers, or splashed themselves in holy water, or made the sign of the cross; does that mean they're never going to make it to heaven? What kind of rules are those?



No, you say the prayer with your heart open to God and you go to heaven. There's a difference of saying something and actually meaning it. And, you don't have to splash yourself with holy water or make a sign of the cross. Where the heck did you get that from? You're making stuff up.


umm...
correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that there was this tiny thing that some people liked to call 'baptism' that was mainly about splashing babies with holy water...

Anyway, yes, you may need to mean the prayer, but can you really just say it once, mean it, and then say, i meant it then, but now I'M A BUDDHIST, BABY! #$%& THE HOLY GHOST! and get into heaven? it seems silly.

What if you said the prayer and assassinated the pope? Time traveled and raped Jesus? it just seems silly to say 'yep, blither these words and you get eternal bliss! good luck.'

And you should address Toby's other point- what about all the good, just and kind souls who were never baptised because they didn't know about it? what about infant mortality? Can you really damn all the babies and people who never knew about Christianity to limbo forever? That's pretty harsh.

I have a lot of problems with what Christianity has become... it's really lost a lot of the good mesages and things that Jesus actually was supposed to have said.

Whether he said 'love your enemy' or not, it shouldn't matter if he was God's son or not, it shouldn't matter if you can get into heaven just by saying a prayer, you should still be a kind and just person and do good works. That's what Islam teaches, but it seems like Christianity lost it along the way. That's why God sent another prophet, I suppose. The other one talked to people with wax in their ears.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 2 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]389510[/snapback]

QUOTE(FullMetal Shrimp @ May 2 2006, 02:30 PM) [snapback]389502[/snapback]

What I want to know is- Where is the moral outrage about women wearing clothing that pertains to a man (Like pants and ties and business suits), and golden jewelery, and wearing cotton with wool, and consuming pork? WHERE IS THE MORAL OUTRAGE? If you claim to be opposed to anything the bible says is forbidden, then you should be against these things as well, yes?


Uhm, please tell me where exactly the Bible says wearing golden jewelry and consuming pork is a sin, because it isn't. God does say however that putting anything up in front of him is a sin. Ex. Becoming obsessed with jewelry that you no longer have any time for God.


Ahem,

Leviticus 11:7

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

There's a whole list of things you can't eat in the bible.
Ailuro
I feel like I'm being represented horribly. mellow.gif
Envy's lil' miniskirt
Well do some representing then.........please.
Ailuro
Okay, when I'm confronted with other religions, I just let them do their own thing, and don't try to convert because I feel like I'm pushing my own beliefs upon them. And I don't feel that that's very polite. I feel that as long as the other person has good morals, I don't think intervention or whatever is needed. huh.gif I don't think any less of a person or say that they're going to hell just because that aren't the same as me.

Basically, I don't like making a big deal of it. But I think I'm of the same religion or similar to FullMetal Shrimp's. And I don't feel I can represent it effectively, because I don't even know everything about it.
Toby-Chan
I could help represent it, even if I'm not currently practicing or devout. I'm just not sure I have any wholehearted conviction, because there's a lot of conflicting ideas I hold.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Ailuro @ May 2 2006, 06:38 PM) [snapback]389602[/snapback]

And I don't feel I can represent it effectively, because I don't even know everything about it.



QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 2 2006, 06:40 PM) [snapback]389606[/snapback]

I could help represent it, even if I'm not currently practicing or devout. I'm just not sure I have any wholehearted conviction, because there's a lot of conflicting ideas I hold.

That hasn't stopped Fullmetal shrimp why should it stop you two?
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