Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Tell Us About Your Beliefs/religions
Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > General Discussions > Open Talk
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(zarpia @ May 17 2005, 07:07 PM)
I don't belong to any religion, so what am i?
[snapback]174414[/snapback]



I believe you are agnostic.

Me, I'm a buddhist. But buddhism is more a philosophy on life and less a religion. Most of us don't pray to a god. We chant or meditate but it's not the same a praying.
A Dude that says stuff
I believe in God of the bible. You can call me born again, or a christian.. in theory there is only one type of christianity: believing in the son of god.

It doesn't really matter though almost no one on this planet can agree upon what God really is, or who he is. Ultimately there can and will be only one truth. It might be the bible, the koran or some mumbo jumbo cult that commits mass suicide in their basement in texas. There could be no God and there could be 10000 gods. Everything could be true... or nothing of which we consider truth could be the reality.

But we can take the things that we know about existance and apply it to various theories. FX we can try to determine the age of life and the world with scientific methods.. or we can try to reach a clear state of mind with meditation. We can also go to church on christmas and hope we go to heaven.

But whatever anyone says one thing is a fact: There is only one truth. Just like the fact that im sitting here and typing this now.. but not in some other location, with other fingers then my own. We live in a world of mathmetical precision, where the rules of physics are logical and create a system that works, the system of the world. It's not supernatural if it starts to rain at the moment you step out of your appartment, or if someone dies in a car accident, the same day he got a promotion. It basically means you decided not to step out of your apartment 10 mins sooner or later.. and that the unlucky fellow walked right in front of a moving car. These are all just factors of a calculatable equation that we are all a part of.

Ergo, since this world is full of logical rules that have only 1 kind of answer, theres must be only one kind of answer to what happens when the clockwork of our frail bodies ceases to function. Are we just dead? Is there something more? Even if there is a God.. does that nessacerily mean that there is afterlife? Does it matter if life is fair? If we put the question "why is life unfair" into the equation this world really is... you can clearly see that some people suffer because of other people. Some people might also be paralyzed waist down because of they fell down a staircase. Does that mean god pushed them down the stairs or made people be mean to them? All of this... is based on decisions of man. Someone decided to be mean to someone and someone else decided to walk the staircase but maybe didn't tie his shoelaces tight enough. And people die in earthquakes. Earthquakes happen! God doesn't need to push the "earthquake" button, quakes are just a part of the planet's mechanism.

The point is that this world functions only because it makes logical sense. God must therefor be a logical part of all of this.

heh.... i always end up saying way to much... I must point out though that im not nearly done biggrin.gif harhar
Now what do you guys think? Do please comment, i insist wink.gif

cheers kids, whichever Creed you belong to...
Thievesvinegar
Dude, you typed "We live in a world of mathmetical precision, where the rules of physics are logical and create a system that works, the system of the world." Fine I can deal with that. Bu then you had to go and write "The point is that this world functions only because it makes logical sense. God must therefor be a logical part of all of this." Wtf?
telepika
QUOTE(A Dude that says stuff @ May 18 2005, 07:35 PM)
The point is that this world functions only because it makes logical sense. God must therefore be a logical part of all of this.
[snapback]175121[/snapback]


Just because the world functions logically doesn't mean God is part of it. God could be an uninvolved god who just sits back and lets nature take its course. Or for that matter, God could just be a figment of our imagination who doesn't exist and therefore not part of this equation of logic that governs the universe. biggrin.gif

I'm not an atheist though. I'm Catholic. But I'm just pointing something out.
Sonic-Teal
I'm Gnostic (No not agnostic gnostic meaning nosis or is it gnosis anyways nosis meaning knowledge). I follow in my dad's foot steps. You could call me an aesthist since that's what many kids at school believe me to be and say I will burn in hell so eh I couldent care less. I dont believe in eternal hell becuase the Bible disproves it for reasons I am not going to delve into becuase I have to leave soon. I believe in reincarnation not the Hindu type, but when you die your soul travles to the next plane of existance. We Gnostics also are always trying to find "the truth" which it can not be told it can only be discovered. The truth of reality can never be said it can only be known. That is why I like all the Matrix movies it is a Gnostic film. It shows the reawakening and the three selves, but the guys who made it did screw up most of the parts in the two sequals. Pick up the Davincci Code I havent read it but I heard it is a book on Gnostisicm and the Knight's Templar who were the founders of the Gnostic Orders. See they were seperated after they were stabbed in the back during the Cruesades, and then the seperated to Scotland and Portugal under the name "The Knight's of Christ," and they still carried the bright red cross they were known for. Before I have to go PM me if you have any questions well I have to leave.
ἀρχή
I hate beliefs as they seem to just be based on the whim of the individual rather than actually thought out meaningful systems.

But anyway, I'm a failed evengelical christian. At least that's what others would probably say of me because I am concerned with trying to understand what belief and faith is rather than just following the popular systems. I have too much to work out before I feel comfortable with certain theological concepts. For now, it's faith that keeps me in line, but then again, faith is necessary for everything including understanding cause-effect relations.

So, I'm a christian willing to show my weakness. It's too bad that when beliefs are discussed, people often are unwilling to see the weaknesses of their beliefs and talk about them. I find this to be true of both the theist and atheist.
darkangelslayer
I'm Catholic but I'm not a crazed Catholic so I put down Christian. I'm into Taoism and Buddhism also.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(A Dude that says stuff @ May 19 2005, 02:35 AM)
I believe in God of the bible. You can call me born again, or a christian.. in theory there is only one type of christianity: believing in the son of god.

It doesn't really matter though almost no one on this planet can agree upon what God really is, or who he is. Ultimately there can and will be only one truth. It might be the bible, the koran or some mumbo jumbo cult that commits mass suicide in their basement in texas. There could be no God and there could be 10000 gods. Everything could be true... or nothing of which we consider truth could be the reality.

But we can take the things that we know about existance and apply it to various theories. FX we can try to determine the age of life and the world with scientific methods.. or we can try to reach a clear state of mind with meditation. We can also go to church on christmas and hope we go to heaven.

But whatever anyone says one thing is a fact: There is only one truth. Just like the fact that im sitting here and typing this now.. but not in some other location, with other fingers then my own. We live in a world of mathmetical precision, where the rules of physics are logical and create a system that works, the system of the world. It's not supernatural if it starts to rain at the moment you step out of your appartment, or if someone dies in a car accident, the same day he got a promotion. It basically means you decided not to step out of your apartment 10 mins sooner or later.. and that the unlucky fellow walked right in front of a moving car. These are all just factors of a calculatable equation that we are all a part of.

Ergo, since this world is full of logical rules that have only 1 kind of answer, theres must be only one kind of answer to what happens when the clockwork of our frail bodies ceases to function. Are we just dead? Is there something more? Even if there is a God.. does that nessacerily mean that there is afterlife? Does it matter if life is fair? If we put the question "why is life unfair" into the equation this world really is... you can clearly see that some people suffer because of other people. Some people might also be paralyzed waist down because of they fell down a staircase. Does that mean god pushed them down the stairs or made people be mean to them? All of this... is based on decisions of man. Someone decided to be mean to someone and someone else decided to walk the staircase but maybe didn't tie his shoelaces tight enough. And people die in earthquakes. Earthquakes happen! God doesn't need to push the "earthquake" button, quakes are just a part of the planet's mechanism.

The point is that this world functions only because it makes logical sense. God must therefor be a logical part of all of this.

heh.... i always end up saying way to much... I must point out though that im not nearly done biggrin.gif harhar
Now what do you guys think? Do please comment, i insist wink.gif

cheers kids, whichever Creed you belong to...
[snapback]175121[/snapback]


wow... that's an awful lot of hot air...
~Pride~
Im Methodist it is some kinda form of Catholic I think.
ἀρχή
QUOTE(~Pride~ @ May 19 2005, 01:23 PM)
Im Methodist it is some kinda form of Catholic I think.
[snapback]175329[/snapback]


Methodists are protestant Christians. I believe they are also moderate to low litergy and as such are not very close to catholics at all.
Slashrose1010
I am Catholic but that isn't my belief system because sadly, my parents are both conservitive Catholics sad.gif Anywho, my belief is more of a mix between Christianity and Judaism. Christianity doesn't stress the old testiment enough, but I do believe in the new testiment. I don't believe in certain dogmas established by previous popes and leaders though. I would actually like to have yamikas incorporated into my religion laugh.gif when I create my own that is tongue.gif I shall call it The House of David ^^ To represent a union between Christianty and Judaism, Jesus *decendant of David and David himself*. Our symbol will be a cross with the Star of David linked in the middle of the intersection of the cross. happy.gif
A Dude that says stuff
Ok... I want to point out that by stating that "The point is that this world functions only because it makes logical sense. God must therefor be a logical part of all of this." I put it like that IF considering the possibility of God's overall existance. that's all. And I'm not trying to limit God's infinity to anything, this world or anything else. Given that God actually exists (ignoring the option that he doesn't for a second) I want to see him as a creator of existance; time, space and life as it appears. The creator is not limited in any way though. No more then a programmer is to a program he creates. The program he creates doesn't have to reflect his own world's laws and limits in any way.
FX if we compare life to Mario Bros. Mario bros is a great game (you can tell me that you don't believe in God... but dont diss mario!), but mario's world is quite different from ours. Mario lives in a 2D environment, and that is all he knows. He can not imagine life in a 3D environment, because he has never been out of his 2D environment (when we're talking about the original nintendo games anyway tongue.gif).

In the same way, even though we have never seen far out of our regular perceptional world, that doesn't mean existance is somehow limited to what we see, feel, hear... and find out with scientific instruments. The chaos theory fx suggests infinite numbers of alternative extradimensional worlds, that reflect everything from our world to something completely different.

In that sense... existance is very open ended and ANYTHING must be considered an option. I personally want to take certain factors in my environment as proof for an omnipotent being far beyond our understanding, perception and imagination. Not criticising atheists or members of other religions... as I said.. ANYTHING could technically be possible...

Oh little town.. of betlehem... tongue.gif
kidmuscle
I belive that Jesus is Gods son and He died on the cross and forgave are sins. so ya Im a christian smile.gif and fi you dont belive the your going to hell and spend eterity seperated form God, but I hope you all wont
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(kidmuscle @ May 20 2005, 05:35 PM)
I belive that Jesus is Gods son and He died on the cross and forgave are sins.  so ya Im  a christian  smile.gif     and fi you dont belive the your going to hell and spend eterity seperated form God, but I hope you all wont
[snapback]175935[/snapback]


I've got two words for ya, kid:

Grow up.
Prinz_Zoisit
1. There is only one truth.
So, if there's only one truth, isn't it more secure to behave and to wait and think about life until the end instead of being agnostic?

2. We live in a world of mathmetical precision
Do you know the uncertainity relation. It says that you can never determine the velocity and the location of materia. It's an unequation which always contains a certain "tolerance" under which you can tell the velocity or the location of something...
Are you saying that even things which we'll never be sure of are proof for the "mathematic precision of all things"?


3. It basically means you decided not to step out of your apartment 10 mins sooner or later..
...I'll tell you a story....
yesterday, i saw somebody whom i didn't see since many years... i wouldn't have met him if i stepped out of my appartment 10 mins sooner...


4. Does it matter if life is fair?
How dare you to judge how life is(fair/unfair)! You don't know anything(x>0) about life!
Is it natural that life and the world is so beautiful with its animals and beautiful landscapes and oceans? Are you saying that(even in a period of time of billions of years) it is pure chance that our DNS is so complex and was structured like how it is structured? Is it pure chance that you can live as how you live, that you can eat fruits and plants which grow on trees and which you can eat(they're for you!)? And that there are rivers with stones and natural filters which make the water clear and sweet? You are a fool if you say so!


5. Some people might also be paralyzed waist down because of they fell down a staircase.
I'll tell you another story...
Some days ago i saw a documentation on TV about ppl who are burned on all their skin...They really looked disfigured...
At this moment, i felt guilty, guilty about my allday-problems which are soooo small compared to that what i saw on TV...
Don't think simple. Everything has got a sense...


6. The point is that this world functions only because it makes logical sense. God must therefor be a logical part of all of this.
What is God for you? What does the word "God" mean to you? Do you think that "the world" is decisive to "God"? Then he wouldn't be God...
It is important to accept something which is more powerful, more intelligent and everything better than human. If you think like that, you'll live another life...
A Dude that says stuff
1. There is only one truth.
"So, if there's only one truth, isn't it more secure to behave and to wait and think about life until the end instead of being agnostic?"

Hehe... what does it look like i was thinking? about the english football league?
By saying that there is one truth im only trying to underline the fact that what most of us believe is wrong and what maybe some of us believe.. is right. I never said what was right. I can tell you right now though, that christianity doesn't allow any other religions (nor do most the other religions), because if it would, it would undermine itself. So im just supposed to step up and say that everyone is wrong and that i am right? Of course not! Instead i remind ppl that one day we will all see if what we did here in life, will secure us eternal happiness or not. "not" means that either it's somekind of a hell, nutreal presence of mind (etc) or no afterlife of anykind. "Not" also means that you did NOT make the right choice when you picked out a truth to believe in biggrin.gif I believe that the one truth is that God, THE living almighty god, so pure, holy and overwhelmingly better in every possible way than all of us combined... created the world, life and everything we know. I also believe that you can't say that you believe in the God of the bible, then pick out a few verses that you like and deny everything else written in the bible! ohmy.gif Either you believe or you don't believe in this God.. there is no 50/50 middle way. I have no doubt in my mind that it was Him that created this world, my consciousness, soul and spirit (regardless of definitions) and that if one follows down the right path, one will be spared. Not because of his/hers own magnificense, but because this God.. is a good God.

2. We live in a world of mathmetical precision
"Do you know the uncertainity relation. It says that you can never determine the velocity and the location of materia. It's an unequation which always contains a certain "tolerance" under which you can tell the velocity or the location of something...
Are you saying that even things which we'll never be sure of are proof for the "mathematic precision of all things"?
"

Im saying that all we know about how the world works, life and all else, is based on logic. I see a ball fall of a roof and hit the ground. I don't need anyone to tell me that it fell from one location and ended up on the ground, bouncing around. I could determine it with my eyes and brain. Now, was i in a matrix-like computer program that told my head that exactly that happened? It doesn't matter! In my world, the ball fell from the roof, through the air, and hit the ground. What happens outside the world doesn't HAVE to directly connect with this insignificant event. I can never certainly be sure. But, what happens in this world, is based on this worlds rules. Gravity, mass, light, chemistry, action-consequence. Does this "uncertainity relation" tell us that fx if I drop a glass off a cliff and let it fall exactly 150 meters in zero wind down on a pile of rock it somehow wont break? Do it over and over again just to make be sure that there is no exception to the rule? Are YOU saying that the world is just a fairytale where everything magically works?

3. It basically means you decided not to step out of your apartment 10 mins sooner or later..
"...I'll tell you a story....
yesterday, i saw somebody whom i didn't see since many years... i wouldn't have met him if i stepped out of my appartment 10 mins sooner...
"

Are you saying that it was fate? what the hell man!
I was once working in a shitty job which was basically about going from garden to garden and mowing the lawn, hunting down weed (the unsmokable kind) and sitting around, avoiding to put worth into what one was doing. This is one of the first jobs you can be sure of getting when first becoming a working individual, at young age. I was assigned to one job with another fellow. We got to know each other and later became best friends. My life would most likely differ greatly from what it is, if it wasn't for those that decided to assign me and this fellow to the same job. this STORY's moral is: insignificant events some times have life modifying consequenses.. nothing HAS to control it.

4. Does it matter if life is fair?
"How dare you to judge how life is(fair/unfair)! You don't know anything(x>0) about life!
Is it natural that life and the world is so beautiful with its animals and beautiful landscapes and oceans? Are you saying that(even in a period of time of billions of years) it is pure chance that our DNS is so complex and was structured like how it is structured? Is it pure chance that you can live as how you live, that you can eat fruits and plants which grow on trees and which you can eat(they're for you!)? And that there are rivers with stones and natural filters which make the water clear and sweet? You are a fool if you say so!
"

Actually, funny that you mention that, I have been saying exactly what you are saying here. This appears to be one thing we agree on. Even empowering what i've been trying to prove here: the world works. The ecosystem is so complex and precise that even though we had a team of our biggest experts on it, they couldn't simulate anything close. Has anyone heard that they've managed to actually simulate in a lab what supposedly happened in a pool of random materials billions of years ago, when life "emerged"? They haven't. They haven't come close. Even the "simplest" most inadvanced form of life, is a self sustaining, self duplicating entity that finds the energy it needs, harnesses it, and can also deal with a number if situations which endanger it's existance. It can ensure it's survival, and "it" for example; the bacterium scientists suggest is the oldest fossil recorded of living organisms, a bacterium that lives deep down in the ocean, where heat and pressure is so awesome, that we can hardly make machines that go down there... this bacterium.. is "simple"!! Im telling you, as long and tiring this fukkin essay may be, the world works way TO well to be the result of an entirely random process, such as evolution or any other in that direction. And believe me, I would never say it's simpler than that tongue.gif
and about the "is life fair" part: life's "fairness" doesn't determine if God is real, if real, who he is and what he does. It doesn't have to have anything to do with God.

5. Some people might also be paralyzed waist down because of they fell down a staircase.
"I'll tell you another story...
Some days ago i saw a documentation on TV about ppl who are burned on all their skin...They really looked disfigured...
At this moment, i felt guilty, guilty about my allday-problems which are soooo small compared to that what i saw on TV...
Don't think simple. Everything has got a sense...
"

It's true. Some of the problems we deal with are insignificant when compared to the problem of ppl around the globe... fx the survivors of this great tidal wave in the east... close to asian soil...
A large earthquake erupted out to sea and caused this wave to crash into the shores of whatever land was in the way. A lot of ppl died, and lost their houses, family.. their most beloved ones. And here I am having problems finding a job, or getting enough exercise.. it's imbalanced. But as I said before.. earthquakes happen. ppl get burned... some people dont. Do you want everyone be miserable because someone is? or everyone to be happy because someone is? Everyone can be happy, it's just a matter of methods. If not in this life, then hopefully in the next. We don't have to be told that anyone can be miserable, that is something we all, dreadfully, find out.

6. The point is that this world functions only because it makes logical sense. God must therefor be a logical part of all of this.
"What is God for you? What does the word "God" mean to you? Do you think that "the world" is decisive to "God"? Then he wouldn't be God...
It is important to accept something which is more powerful, more intelligent and everything better than human. If you think like that, you'll live another life...
"

Do you want to know what God is to me? He is exactly how he's described in the Bible. Read it... over and over and over again. It might give you more arguments wink.gif hehe...

So if anyone read all of this be mindful of this: while you read it, you could have walked down the sidewalk, crossed the street and gotten hit by a car. But you chose to read the nonsense that came out of my mouth (or fingertips, to be correct). Life is made out of choices. Either you choose to make the right choices or not. Sometimes you make the wrong choices, for various different reasons. God didn't make you do the wrong thing, nor did anyone but you... the final decision is always up to us.
You can therefor choose to believe in the "right" truth. Because even though you pick something you think is right that doesn't mean it IS right.

AAAANNNNDDD::: one last thing for you quoters out there; you can take what you like out of context if you want to, but it's only the whole message that counts here. Quoting wont help us get to a conclusion... If that is overall what anyone had in mind, hehe.. I might be understanding this wrong then..
If we aren't heading for any conclusion or expension of our understanding of reality... then what the hell is the point? To prove who's right and who's wrong? We all want to believe we are right, and that anyone who opposes us is wrong. The only fact is, that mankind as a group is a bunch of fools. If we weren't, we'd figured out a way to make happiness and prosperity become available for everybody, not just in small doses or for a few selected. Im gonna call it a night. I can go on though. I dont consider that a gift.. more of a curse heh.. rolleyes.gif
Thievesvinegar
Curse it is.


Just curious, all of you, which is more important? Faith or truth?
Guest
But but but... you mean Faith isn't the Truth? ohmy.gif

Reading about this stuff is always interesting anyway. I like that one religion held by a small tribe somewhere out there that says when we die we're going to the layer underneath us, so we'd be meeting the exact same people and life would go on as usual except for lack of sky and fresh air. Maybe we'd be like the goblins and lose our toes, too.
telepika
Faith! laugh.gif
Carnal Malefactor
Faith is the belief that something good will happen.
Truth is the knowledge that it won't.
Guest
Yea, some people want to believe in the existence of salvation because they're afraid of death and look for some comforting explanation. Heaven and hell may only be the products of imagination cause things aren't always fair here and people just want to believe justice will triumph in the end.

Even if this isn't the truth, just let these people be. What they believe or don't believe don't hurt you. Would you go to a dying woman in a converted village and start telling her that instead of going to Jesus, she'd evaporate into thin air never to be seen again? Wouldn't you rather she die in peace believing what she believes?

I'm actually not that religious, but the agnostic version of a zealous evangelist makes me want to side with the most extreme fundamentalist.

QUOTE
I belive that Jesus is Gods son and He died on the cross and forgave are sins. so ya Im a christian  and fi you dont belive the your going to hell and spend eterity seperated form God, but I hope you all wont


Yes, Jesus is God's son, as are you and a million other people, and yes, Jesus died on the cross and forgave people's sins, but by believing that, have you really secured a spot in heaven? I don't like the way you arrogantly imply that you're going straight there while the rest of us will be sent to hell. What do you do as a Christian anyway? Does simply reading the Bible, going to church, and praying give you the satisfaction of being a good Christian? Do you not shoplift or lie or laugh at other people's expense or ignore a certain person cause if you befriend him/her, you will be as ignored? Yes, we're all humans and we have our flaws, but if you go around claiming to be a Christian (and a good one on top of it), people will see you as the representation of ALL Christians, and your actions speak louder than your words (e.g. those Bible verses you've memorized and quote every possible chance).
Foolio
im an agnostic, and dont take offence to this next comment, but i believe jesus was a megalomanic
Zidan_chan
QUOTE(Foolio @ May 24 2005, 09:55 AM)
im an agnostic, and dont take offence to this next comment, but i believe jesus was a megalomanic
[snapback]178606[/snapback]




Would you mind explaining why? You should at least try to back your argument.
Fresh_Coffee
QUOTE(kidmuscle @ May 20 2005, 11:35 AM)
I belive that Jesus is Gods son and He died on the cross and forgave are sins.  so ya Im  a christian  smile.gif     and fi you dont belive the your going to hell and spend eterity seperated form God, but I hope you all wont
[snapback]175935[/snapback]



I like to say that since I'm a Jehovah's witnesses well perishly since I'm starting to lack of faith but if anyone wants to cut my statement go ahead. @_@ Anyway, there is really is no proof that Jesus was put on a cross. The only way for him to have survived three hours would be if he was impailed(sp) Being on a cross would mean he would have died much quicker. I don't really remember well but I believe that it's the correct information I should go look it up , soon. Oh and what guest said is very true, just because you believe Jesus is Gods son does not mean that , that is all you have to do. There are rules in the bible that must be followed if you really want to be a true christan and no offence if you want to say your religion is better than others try to do it subtly.
alchemist x
I think most of the people that picked athiest are royal doush bags who want to be like ed so they change their whole lifestyle. That is freaking stupid.
Guest
Yeah. Darn those scientists. Instead of finding a cure for cancer they spend their free time watching Fullmetal Alchemist.
Falling_Man
@X: Ed technically isn't atheist because he believes in the concept of a god. And the material you placed there could be interpreted as 'offensive.' So please don't do that anymore.

Last post was... random.

First, I guess I'll say I'm a Christian. A "fake" one, if you want to believe that. The kind that still does whatever, says they believe and does things to support that. So shoot me if you don't like it. I don't and live with it.

Just to add my two cents to a few topics... (I haven't read through the entire thing, so I'm bound to re-add or miss some established thing)

On differences between Protestants and Catholics...
Catholics tend to venerate certain people, otherwise known as saints, more than Protestants. Catholics also tend to pray more and believe they must confess their sins to their loca preist. Protestants don't follow most the above traditions/methods.

On "salvation"...
It is said that (and has been stated many times over) belief in Christ, his existance as the son of God, his life, death, ressurection, ascention and the fact that Christ died fo the sins of all will send you to heaven. What I believe is that it takes that and following the rules stated in the Bible. Though some people do believe just to escape death, there are others who believe for other reasons. I also believe that heaven and hell do exist. Aside from just Christianity as a whole, most other religions believe of some kind of place where those who did good and followed the teachings went, and a place where those who did evil and/or did not do a particular thing went. Many claim they have seen either heaven, hell, both or a similar place, regardless whether they were on some drug or not. Besides, we don't know if what those crazy druggies are seeing is real or not. But that's something else altogether...

[random] Another long, involved post. So bite me. [/random]
YoshiCat1
I don't think the Atheists here are just trying to be like Ed... (Though, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some people who would change their entire belief system just to be more like Ed rolleyes.gif ) I'm agnostic, but I certainly think about the philosophical things involved in religion. I personally believe that fate works a certain way and things didn't happen at random. And I believe that there is a higher power we call "God". However, I'm no fan of ritualistic things involving church and what-not. (But I won't get into that, we've had enough "what I believe" speeches)

There was a religion left off of the poll that I get a little too much of where I live and that's "Mormonism". I've heard some here telling me that you'll go to hell if you don't go to church every Sunday, but most of them are nice enough to look past all of that. And... I've noticed that the people at my school who aren't Mormon tend to go in the complete opposite direction and be Atheist. It's like a rebellion or they grow to think that all religions are silly. That's just the way I see it.

Either that, or Atheists find religion a waste of time. Ahh, the reasons could be endless, but I don't think all Atheists do it to be cool or whatever.
Falling_Man
Religion will vary among believers. It really depends on how they intepret it.

@Yoshi: Mormons tend to be stuck under Protestant Christianity. Either that, or wolfi didn't think to add them.
Foolio
QUOTE(Zidan_chan @ May 24 2005, 10:18 AM)
QUOTE(Foolio @ May 24 2005, 09:55 AM)
im an agnostic, and dont take offence to this next comment, but i believe jesus was a megalomanic

Would you mind explaining why? You should at least try to back your argument.

if you know what a megalomaniac is (without using a dictionary) then you should be able to figure it out on yourself. come on, be a big boy.
Carnal Malefactor
Jesus isn't a megalomaniac... just his most vocal followers.
A Dude that says stuff
Whatever Jesus was.. he must've been a pretty cool guy, since 11 out of 12 of his closest followers died a horrible death for simply sticking by their faith in him.

Some where crusified.. upside down even.. some pulled apart by horses.. and others just plain murdered in various ways.
Although how exactly they died isn't the whole point.. the fact that only by saying "im sorry, I don't believe in jesus anymore biggrin.gif" would have spared them their lifes, that's what makes it kinda funky cool.gif

So what was Jesus?
- a (megalo)maniac?
- a liar?
- What he actually claimed to be?
alchemist x
All, atheists. WHY THE STUPIDITY. It is better safe than sorry.
Zidan_chan
QUOTE(Foolio @ May 24 2005, 07:24 PM)
QUOTE(Zidan_chan @ May 24 2005, 10:18 AM)
QUOTE(Foolio @ May 24 2005, 09:55 AM)
im an agnostic, and dont take offence to this next comment, but i believe jesus was a megalomanic

Would you mind explaining why? You should at least try to back your argument.

if you know what a megalomaniac is (without using a dictionary) then you should be able to figure it out on yourself. come on, be a big boy.
[snapback]178980[/snapback]




I know plenty what a meglomanic is, I was just curious to know why you thought so, but we actually discussed this in one my class. I am not disagreeing with you though. (Just to let you know, I am a girl.)
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(alchemist x @ May 25 2005, 12:03 PM)
All, atheists. WHY THE STUPIDITY. It is better safe than sorry.
[snapback]179110[/snapback]


Shut up already.
Foolio
QUOTE(Zidan_chan @ May 25 2005, 08:07 AM)
QUOTE(Foolio @ May 24 2005, 07:24 PM)
QUOTE(Zidan_chan @ May 24 2005, 10:18 AM)
QUOTE(Foolio @ May 24 2005, 09:55 AM)
im an agnostic, and dont take offence to this next comment, but i believe jesus was a megalomanic

Would you mind explaining why? You should at least try to back your argument.

if you know what a megalomaniac is (without using a dictionary) then you should be able to figure it out on yourself. come on, be a big boy.
[snapback]178980[/snapback]


I know plenty what a meglomanic is, I was just curious to know why you thought so, but we actually discussed this in one my class. I am not disagreeing with you though. (Just to let you know, I am a girl.)
[snapback]179156[/snapback]


i suppose the whole "i am the son of god" thing explains what im saying...btw have you noticed similarities between him and people like Jim Jones, Chalie Manson, and Marshall Applewhite?
alchemist x
no
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ May 24 2005, 03:36 PM)
Anyway, there is really is no proof that Jesus was put on a cross. The only way for him to have survived three hours would be if he was impailed(sp) Being on a cross would mean he would have died much quicker.
[snapback]178785[/snapback]




Actually, it takes a long time to die from crucifixion often times days or weeks, it was designed that way. All in all a pretty sucktacular way to die.
Fresh_Coffee
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ May 25 2005, 04:15 PM)
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ May 24 2005, 03:36 PM)
Anyway, there is really is no proof that Jesus was put on a cross. The only way for him to have survived three hours would be if he was impailed(sp) Being on a cross would mean he would have died much quicker.
[snapback]178785[/snapback]




Actually, it takes a long time to die from crucifixion often times days or weeks, it was designed that way. All in all a pretty sucktacular way to die.
[snapback]179357[/snapback]



'_' mm... I see thank you for correcting me. : ) Say how long do you think at most would a person be able to last?
Prinz_Zoisit
thank you, dude that you told us so many interesting things and that you found the time to do so...^^


What happens outside the world doesn't HAVE to directly connect with this insignificant event.
what do you mean by outside the world? do you mean in this universe? the "uncertainity thing" says that if a proton is changed, its partner proton(which is kilometers away from the first proton) would change immediately...
have you ever heard from it?

My life would most likely differ greatly from what it is, if it wasn't for those that decided to assign me and this fellow to the same job. [...] nothing HAS to control it.
So you think that it isn't God whom we have to thank, but the ppl for example who helped us to get to a certain situation? Did i understand you right? So what meaning does "praying" after the Christian have?


Do you want to know what God is to me? He is exactly how he's described in the Bible. Read it... over and over and over again. It might give you more arguments wink.gif hehe...
...you are right... i don't know the Bible very well.... cause it were only about 15 pages which i read in it..... it is a shame...


I dont consider that a gift.. more of a curse heh.. rolleyes.gif
What do you mean? Life shall be a curse?
A Dude that says stuff
Ahh yes... this uncertainity theory... i remember having heard it now.
Well, anyway, it should only apply to what i was saying if, and only if, it somehow negates the way the laws of physics work now, as we know them. I mean, is this really something that proves other laws of physics wrong? they still work in a mathmatical fashion, and did long before anyone "invented" that theory.
And remember that it may be plausible (not saying that it's wrong or anything) but it's a theory until proved, with scientific methods. I could add that fx the theory of evolution has not been proved with scientific methods.. what were the steps again? Gather intelligence.. come up with a theory, try the theory with experiments (usually by recreating some kind of an enviroment with a certain "variable"), run tests again without the variable, and after that, draw a conclusion. Theories generally haven't made it past step 3, because they can't currently be experemented with.
Whatever; the fact is, it either negates normal physics or it doesn't. I think it's just another natural law of physics.
I think that what we often do not know how to explain and sometimes label as "supernatural"... are infact just unknown natural laws, something we have yet to discover. I think that this uncertainity theory is therefor just another mathmatically consistant natural law (quantum physics math if regular math doesn't apply rolleyes.gif ).

Furthermore, a God should not be bound by any laws his creation is under unless he so chooses. The God that the bible projects, is one who does. He does not interfere with free will, nor does he invade our lifes unless we want him to (>>rules he made and obeys). He only does as much as our faith allows him too. I believe this explains the lack of his visible acts in our world to day.
What I am ultimately trying to communicate is that God is not involved in EVERYTHING that happens to us, even though he observes everything that happens and answers prayers if and when he decides they should be answered. God is pretty wise. We should be able to trust him biggrin.gif

Is God or man to thank u ask? As I said before, God acts if he has "prayer backup" or is somehow fuelled by faith. If one is "lead" by God however, anything could be God's act in his life. Incase you are not "lead" by God, that usually doesn't happen, but I think that whatever God does, he knows it better then we do. God can be spontaneous tongue.gif

The curse? My curse is not being able to communicate short and direct message! that's what's wrong! Probably a number of other's that have to read through all of this stuff agree on that tongue.gif

Talking about the meaning of life... always been as interesting cool.gif
Dustydevil8809
OK sorry, i dont have time to read this whole thread....
But you cant be a christian without being born again, that is what makes you a true christian. Their should not be Christian and born again christian. they are the same. i really really hope this has ben brought up!
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Dustydevil8809 @ Jun 1 2005, 07:05 AM)
OK sorry, i dont have time to read this whole thread....
But you cant be a christian without being born again, that is what makes you a true christian. Their should not be Christian and born again christian. they are the same. i really really hope this has ben brought up!
[snapback]183370[/snapback]


What if you were, like, only born once? Because that's how it usually is with people...
Drina
=D
Nice one, bacon.

I'm thinking, however, that it's more of a spiritual thing? Maybe you can't be reborn literally, but perhaps it's more of a figurative thing happening?

I wouldn't know. =/
I've been raised as a believer in God and I accept him as my savior, however, that's the extent of my religion.

I think that what happens after this life, well, maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't. I don't know. I don't know anyone who has really been dead for awhile and then come back and tell me about it.
--Anyway, what happens afterward, happens, and what can you do about it? Sit and ponder about it while your LIFE right NOW is flashing by you? Now there, your life now, is something that you can make a difference in.

I think that more people should life NOW and enjoy life. Along the way, broaden their horizons, gain a feeling of who they are, and pick up a few beliefs along the way.
ALONG THE WAY!! Key word there.

As bacon put it, people tend to only live once. So shouldn't you live to the fullest?

*Now drina finds and jumps on a clock.*
DIE, CLOCK! DIE! Pause time until I say go! ERG! I have a life to live you know!
Thievesvinegar
beautiful.

Since we're sharing, I believe in myself. Yes, I'm the only one who can save my soul. Maybe this stems from a mixure of Zen/ Buddist/ Hindu. But definitly not a fan of orginized religion. I guess I have to respect what you believe, but please stay away from me and i'll return the favor. And to whoever shares in this somewhat and have posted, kudos. But I haven't even bothered to read throug hall of this. Just read and think, if you can.
Prinz_Zoisit
QUOTE(A Dude that says stuff @ May 19 2005, 03:35 AM)
Ergo, since this world is full of logical rules
[snapback]175121[/snapback]


...logical rules which man has made himself... who can proove mathematically that F=m*a for example...?
it's all about axioms...

QUOTE
Yes, I'm the only one who can save my soul. Maybe this stems from a mixure of Zen/ Buddist/ Hindu.

@vinegar
yes, i also kinda like these very peace religions..
it's as you already once have said mostly about experience and environment of your own life which lets you tend to a certain religion...
Astralsailor
QUOTE(Thievesvinegar @ Aug 28 2004, 03:33 AM)
Satanism doesn't sound too bad, it's a very individulaistic religion. the thing is, most people think it's so bad becasue of the misconceptions, but once you try to find evidence for most of the negative things, there are none.
[snapback]10658[/snapback]



Yeah thats true...
Satanism is very misconcepted... Like many many belifs..
Make your own belif system and stick to major one if you like..
I belive it is inportent to not forgett the love and light..

I like spiritual alchemy and Life force alchemy and read these text..
Also i have a great intrest in Islam (wich sees all as one if a way)
I have read that satanism came from Illuminati.. And it has acctualy nothing at all to do with worshipping satan.. And that the word satan was used to blame scientist for not going with religon fully and both the sides went angry at each other..
I belive that Religion and science are not opposets..
Rather components of something much bigger...


True alchemy for the people! wee happy.gif
hehe smile.gif
ἀρχή
QUOTE(Prinz_Zoisit @ Jun 2 2005, 03:37 AM)
QUOTE(A Dude that says stuff @ May 19 2005, 03:35 AM)
Ergo, since this world is full of logical rules
[snapback]175121[/snapback]


...logical rules which man has made himself... who can proove mathematically that F=m*a for example...?
it's all about axioms...

Doesn't there seem to be a common sense logic? The statement "f=ma" is a discovered value (a posteriori), but what of identity statements in general? At its very foundation, it seems almost common sense that statements like "a=a", or that any object is identical with itself, is a true statement. We don't really need to go much further than this to feel that there is some "natural" sense of order to understand it and not learned or "man-made"

Of course, logic doesn't prove anything about the "ultimate" (i.e. God). Necessary statements, of which most foundational logical statements consist, are true because they must be true in all possible worlds. Therefore, it is impossible to concieve of a world in which a necessary statement is not true. This could simply be a property of reality rather than a necessary condition of God's existence. As a result, it's not really possible to prove God's existence from logic (i.e. design arguments).

This is why faith is involved. Faith gets a bad rap these days. I don't agree with popular views of faith, I'm talking more about the faith involved in believing any cause/effect relation.

Anyway, just some thoughts tongue.gif.
Prinz_Zoisit
QUOTE(arche @ Jun 2 2005, 01:05 PM)
Doesn't there seem to be a common sense logic? The statement "f=ma" is a discovered value (a posteriori), but what of identity statements in general? At its very foundation, it seems almost common sense that statements like "a=a", or that any object is identical with itself, is a true statement. We don't really need to go much further than this to feel that there is some "natural" sense of order to understand it and not learned or "man-made"
[snapback]184037[/snapback]


yes.. that's what i meant......... this rule is "only to be proofed" by the "statistical/empiric probabilities".... (a "post"eriori/"after" you have seen i.e.)...
that a=a, you said this already one time before... and i think that until now i havn't fully understand this(but it appeals very true to me^^;;).....
and i am very sad that i havn't got the necessary knowledge about logics/philosophy to talk to you about this kind of conversation, arche....

btw, it was my professor in my thermodynamics lesson who told us about these physical rules which can't be prooved.... and i had immediately to think about this forum.. that's why i posted this statement.. it appealed very interesting to me!^^
A Dude that says stuff
QUOTE(Dustydevil8809 @ Jun 1 2005, 06:05 AM)
OK sorry, i dont have time to read this whole thread....
But you cant be a christian without being born again, that is what makes you a true christian. Their should not be Christian and born again christian. they are the same. i really really hope this has ben brought up!
[snapback]183370[/snapback]



And if u had read the whole thread you would have seen that this fact has already surfaced a few times here ;D Yet, no matter how often it's said, people still manage to complicate it.


And about God's "logical" relation to our world...
...it's true that God can't be measured and estimated by any logic man posesses.
I just assume that a God that makes a world full of logic isn't just a spontaneous supernatural force like "fate", but a highly intellegent being, far more advanced then anything we could imagine. God must have a reason for making this world, as i want to believe that it's obvious that our world was engineered.

I've slightly studied chemistry and likewise science, and im most amased by how they give us insight into the worlds mechanism. The world is like a piece of art, with it's systems and processes that are mutally dependent on each other, circular in nature... like the lifecycle of plants, and how energy is passed up the foodchain.

It's just to amasing to be the offspring of evolution... and once you remove evolution from the picture... it really only leaves a place for a creator.

I believe we can find the reason for existance (our purpose if u will) in the beginning of the world, and the beginning of life. Do you choose to ignore the fact that once we started to exist or do you choose to define it?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.