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~FMAgurl~
I had an argument with my friend about this, so I wanted to know what you guys thought. Do you support or oppose abortion? Give an explanation to why if you can. If you aren't mature enough to discuss this than don't post.

I personally am against abortion because it's just like murder. That and also because I'm Catholic...but that's another discussion. Anyway, if people know that they can get pregnant from having sex, then they shouldn't do it at all of they're not willing to accept the possible consequences.

Edit: If you mods think this is a bad idea, considering that you have been here a lot longer than me...than close this.
NightMistress
Considering how extremely controversial this topic is, I don't know if it will last very long. Anyways, I chose the "depends" option because it depends on the situation. If you don't use the proper birth control techniques before you hit the sheets, then you need to accept the consequences. But if you get raped, you shouldn't be forced to have some rapist's baby. Also, if you have health problems and the doctors know that you won't be able to carry it to term without killing yourself, then it should also be up to you. Personally, I don't get in anyone's business where that's concerned. It's their decision and their body. They are the ones that will have to deal with the emotional and physical consequences that come with it. I am not a mother, and have never been pregnant thankfully. As a matter of fact, the older I get the more it freaks me out and the less I like kids. However, if I were in a situation of an unwanted pregnancy, I doubt I would have the heart to get rid of it. I am hoping to never be in that situation and have a baby when I'm completely ready so there is no doubt in my mind at all. For now though, cute, fluffy puppies and kitties are my babies smile.gif
Zarpia
I totally agree with you NightMistress, it depends on the person, even if they have been raped some of them chose to keep the baby, wich i concider maybe a good opttion, coz in the future that baby may have emotioal problems.
~FMAgurl~
I agree that is a very good argument, NightMistress. You have a point smile.gif. I still don't like the idea of it though.
Quistis88
Reminds me of the argument Bacon and I had with Bling. biggrin.gif

I also stand by NightMistress' assessment. The situation does alter mindsets. I am opposed to the killing of innocent people, but if someone who would be a very irresponsible parent got pregnant (and did not want the baby at all) wanted an abortion, I would not stop her. What's the point of having a child you hate? You may end up ruining the child's life, and if you cannot support your child, then the child will likely lead a very miserable life. I wouldn't want children to feel misery they don't deserve.
~FMAgurl~
Can a mod make a "Depends" option? I have a feeling that a lot of people will choose it smile.gif.
Quistis88
Done, and I voted for it. smile.gif
~FMAgurl~
Thanks Quistis happy.gif.
Zarpia
I didn't voted untill quiss made that third option, and i voted for the tird one
edsgirl
I'm definately going to go with the depends option. A woman has the right to decide whether or not they want to bring a child into this world. No matter what the circumstances may be. I believe it is completely up to them.
Lord Odenetheus
I hate the "abortion = murder" arguement. You eat meat, do you not? Some of the animals we choose to eat are very sentient, and rather intelligent, capable of fear, despair etc.. I don't dislike abortion, in fact, I think that only one child allowed per two persons, one child per couple.

Sexual intercourse for pleasure should be prohibited, and will be prohibited in due time. Blergh! Disgusting! Thusly no one could say "it was an accident" if there is no such thing as an unreproductional sexual session.
ἀρχή
Abortion issue is based primarily on whether or not the unborn child is a human being or not. The issue becomes much easier to deal with once that is decided. If the unborn child is human, then abortion is wrong under the current law and under most concepts of morality (i.e. it's wrong to kill except for self-defense). If the unborn child is not a human being, then abortion becomes less of a problem and more of a personal choice (i.e. like an elective surgery to remove an appendix).

I hate arguments that talk about women's rights alone. It actually doesn't matter what a woman wants if the unborn child is truly human as that would be killing a human being. So a woman's right to choose isn't sufficient to decide the issue alone. The comparison would be any person's right to kill another human being for the purpose of eliminating a serious inconvenience.

Having said all that, the issue certainly isn't as black and white as the morally abstracted ethical debate. I would never fault someone for having had an abortion or consider anything less of them. My personal feeling is that it's wrong for the sole reason that the unborn child is human, but I am not in a position to "condemn" any actions to terminate. All I ask is that whoever is about to make the decision to realize that there is a strong possibility that you are killing a human being. If you can still justify it after that, I really can't say anymore at this point.
Carnal Malefactor
Didn't we already have this discussion?

Didn't it end in tears and bruised egos?


Anyhoo,

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ἀρχή
Bacon, you are appealing to the public health aspect of abortion. The fact that if it's not legal, people will cause damage to themselves to have abortions as they will anyway.

This isn't an appropriate argument for abortion proper and actually is not convincing in any way to deter anti-abortion arguments. It's more of a secondary issue. If abortion is morally wrong, then public health of practicing it doesn't matter. Should I be comfortable and safe when I decide to kill someone? I'd rather it be safe and healthy, but if it is considered killing a human being, then no amount of "safety" for abortions will make it something other than killing human beings.

The issue is about metaphysics primarily. Determine that first and then you can talk about the pragmatics of societal responsibility and health.
Quistis88
Isn't there also debate on when a fetus is considered "human"? Some say it is already a human on the moment of conception, and some say it doesn't count as a human being until it shows consciousness in the womb, or takes on the form of what resembles a human.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
It should be legal regardless.

Some people should not be parents either because they are complete asshats and have no business trying to raise another human being or because they may have a genetic disease and the child they bring into the world would have a short and painful life.

Plus no woman should be made to have a child, imagine how the child would feel being brough up by somone who resented it because their mother was forced into parenthood.

As most of you know I can go on and on about this but I'll just leave the short answer for now.

QUOTE(Quistis)
Isn't there also debate on when a fetus is considered "human"? Some say it is already a human on the moment of conception, and some say it doesn't count as a human being until it shows consciousness in the womb, or takes on the form of what resembles a human.


http://www.postfun.com/pfp/blasphemy.html
WhiteMike
You can't be blindly for or against abortions. A person who was just too lazy to use protection should have to face the brunt of their mistakes. As person who got raped and is bearing their rapists child, should be allowed to have an abortion.
Lord Odenetheus
Blergh. I don't see why killing a human is worse than shooting an animal. It's just a life. It does not have any serious impact on the world if you kill a small child/eat chicken for dinner.
~FMAgurl~
You're just a life aren't you? That doesn't make it okay for someone to kill you just because they don't want you, does it? We kill chicken to eat.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(WhiteMike @ Jun 27 2005, 12:22 PM)
You can't be blindly for or against abortions.  A person who was just too lazy to use protection should have to face the brunt of their mistakes.  As person who got raped and is bearing their rapists child, should be allowed to have an abortion.
[snapback]200789[/snapback]




Accidents do happen even with people who take extreme precautions, and yes there are some people who do use abortion as birth control, which I really don't get but hey not my body.

I've noticed a lot of the post saying if someone gets pregnant then they should have the child. What if it's the worse for the child to be born? Meaning, what if they are born to someone who will resent and abuse that child? Also, I don't feel a child should be used as punishment.

Just like the bumper sticker says: Evey child a wanted child.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(arche @ Jun 27 2005, 03:51 PM)
Bacon, you are appealing to the public health aspect of abortion. The fact that if it's not legal, people will cause damage to themselves to have abortions as they will anyway.

This isn't an appropriate argument for abortion proper and actually is not convincing in any way to deter anti-abortion arguments. It's more of a secondary issue. If abortion is morally wrong, then public health of practicing it doesn't matter. Should I be comfortable and safe when I decide to kill someone? I'd rather it be safe and healthy, but if it is considered killing a human being, then no amount of "safety" for abortions will make it something other than killing human beings.

The issue is about metaphysics primarily. Determine that first and then you can talk about the pragmatics of societal responsibility and health.
[snapback]200695[/snapback]



No, I'm speaking to the larger truism that if something is banned which people have come to take for granted, it will not go away, but rather transform into a more shady version of itself. Prohibition should have taught us this lesson.
Nobody in civilized society LIKES abortion, but a civilized society has to accept necessary evils.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
Also remember abortion was illegal before and it didn't stop women from doing dangerous things like using coat hangers and drinking bleach to induce an abortion. Not to mention getting back alley abortions which often times ended the mothers life as well as the fetus'.
Lord Odenetheus
Bah. NO SEXUAL PLEASURE would solve this issue. Just one reproductional sexual session during a lifetime, one successful, I might add.

There would not need to be an abortion issue if there were no sexual pleasure sessions.
FMAlover^
I oppose it! Its just a life after all!When you abort , its just like not giving the child a chance,I doubt the child feels the pain too when you abort it.Whatever you do,think of the result.If you don't want the child don't create it! If you abort,you would be considered as selfish as its like sacrificing a life for your own sake,its killing.
QUOTE
Some people should not be parents either because they are complete asshats and have no business trying to raise another human being or because they may have a genetic disease and the child they bring into the world would have a short and painful life

But sometimes,theres no choice so we can't blame them.This is what I think but if people go abort children,we can't do anything,its their choice.
«°~Envy™~°»
QUOTE(FMAlover^ @ Jun 28 2005, 02:28 AM)
If you don't want the child don't create it!


don't say that cause the'll come up with but some are raped and get pregnant that way they didn't try to create it

but in those cases they kill a life kill the child cause of what asshole guy did to them so the child should suffer for someone else's actions

i'm against it 100%

QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ Jun 27 2005, 02:52 PM)
Also remember abortion was illegal before and it didn't stop women from doing dangerous things like using coat hangers and drinking bleach to induce an abortion. Not to mention getting back alley abortions which often times ended the mothers life as well as the fetus'.
[snapback]200924[/snapback]


well i say this about that, if they are crazy enough to put there own life on the line to kill another, it's there problem they want to be idiots and kill another life, and murder another life, nothing better to risk then your own life to do so right, I hope they make abortion illegal again, yes that may sound sick and sad but i don't care, it's just as sick and sad as thinking of killing a lil kid
Lord Odenetheus
Why not just stop having sex? It's just a human pleasure act, after all. Chastity is a good way to solve the issue.
«°~Envy™~°»
QUOTE(Lord Odenetheus @ Jun 28 2005, 02:50 AM)
Why not just stop having sex? It's just a human pleasure act, after all. Chastity is a good way to solve the issue.
[snapback]201371[/snapback]


you serious, you think that would happen, you know how many people love to do that, stopping sex, son you would have a better of chance at convincing KKK members to be best friends with blacks
Lord Odenetheus
I don't think it would happen, but I think that peopel should try. Everyone who calls themself christian should at least try celibacy, since it's one of the seven virtues. Otherwise, you're just a mock christian, or a hypocrite.

Sexuality is overrated anyway.
«°~Envy™~°»
me for one I'm not a mock christian or a hypocrite

I'm 26 years old

I am not married yet but i'm in a relationship been with my girl for almost 2 years now

and I'm still a virgin and I don't plan on having sex till i get married
WhiteMike
Some people on this thread are not seeing the whole situation for what it is. Sure, you could be against abortions 100%, and you say that it is still life after all. Well, what if that person was raped, and if they were to have to child, all they would see everyday would be the child of the man who raped her. Even if she wanted to put the child up for adoption, she would have to tell the adoption agency who the father was, if she even knows. That child would be branded the rapists kid, it would go in his/her file, so if any caring person would want to adopt him/her, the main detourant to adopt this child would be that he was born from a rapist. First impressions are always important. Now, I'm not saying that this is all going to happen, maybe the parent of the child would want to keep it, I personally don't know why, but if they kept the child everything would grand for it, I guess. I wouldn't want that child to join my gene pool, I would not want a rapist to somehow be connected to me.
The other side to this issue is the aspect of dangers during pregnancy. Due to the miracles of science, we can now predict if there will be troubles during pregnancy. Why not take this warning, which even 20 years ago many people didn't get, and save your own life. Sure, you will kill your growing fetus, if its even at that stage yet, but you will save yourself. If you can save yourself, then you will be able to try again to have another child. On many media frenzies, they show how the mother chooses to die during pregnancy (cough Star Wars cough), but thats just stupid. The female body has the ability, keep listening I'm not crazy, has the ability to give birth multiple times. I know, I couldn't believe it either. But know that that is out in the open, the signs were pretty clear, just look at the Irish Catholics, they average out 6 babies a year (I'm kidding, for the most part).
I hope this has cleared some room in some of your anti-abortion minds, to show you that under certain circumstances, abortion is the best choice.
«°~Envy™~°»
WhiteMike

to your first part about the rapist situation even thou i already stated half the reason on this part on my first post in here, about shouldn't murder a kid over someone else's mistake

Sure yes he would be a rapist son, and no the mother doesn't have to give the fathers name, all she has to tell them is the fact she was raped, i don't care if she was raped i'm sorry it happend to her but that still isn't an excuse to murder a kid, give the kid a chance to make a living for his/her self

now about the science crap about how we can predict weather to save yourself n so on if we know ahead of time that it may kill the mother to have the baby,

once again here we go the life of the new born baby or the life of the mother, any self respecting mother ofcourse would choose the life of the baby over her own for one, I myself yes there is no way out of this your going to lose one or the other, sad to say i Myself ain't sure if i was put in this situation I ain't hundred percent sure what I wold do, but in all truthfullness i hope i make the decistion to choose the kid the mother
phoenix dying
But doesn't that all go back to the point that it should be up to the mother. Let it hang on her mind for the rest of her life.
NightMistress
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ Jun 27 2005, 01:46 PM)
It should be legal regardless. 

Some people should not be parents either because they are complete asshats and have no business trying to raise another human being or because they may have a genetic disease and the child they bring into the world would have a short and painful life.

Plus no woman should be made to have a child, imagine how the child would feel being brough up by somone who resented it because their mother was forced into parenthood.

As most of you know I can go on and on about this but I'll just leave the short answer for now.

QUOTE(Quistis)
Isn't there also debate on when a fetus is considered "human"? Some say it is already a human on the moment of conception, and some say it doesn't count as a human being until it shows consciousness in the womb, or takes on the form of what resembles a human.


http://www.postfun.com/pfp/blasphemy.html
[snapback]200753[/snapback]



Well, if the woman didn't want the kid by the time it was born, she could always put it up for adoption.

I am not saying that abortion shouldn't be legal, I think that it should, I'm just saying my personal attitude about it.

I have friends that have gotten multiple ones. One of them decided to keep her 4th baby and now regrets having got rid of the other ones.

Abortion however does contribute to keeping the population from spiraling out of control more than it already is.

I know that my post seems pretty mixed on the idea and that's pretty much because I am as well. Eventhough I say it should be legal doesn't mean I support it in every case. Heck, cigarrettes are legal (and should be) but I don't support smoking.
WhiteMike
QUOTE
to your first part about the rapist situation even thou i already stated half the reason on this part on my first post in here, about shouldn't murder a kid over someone else's mistake

How is it someone elses mistake that a girl gets raped? A MISTAKE (definition): 1.An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness.
2.A misconception or misunderstanding.
Does rape really fall into one of those catagories?
QUOTE
Sure yes he would be a rapist son, and no the mother doesn't have to give the fathers name, all she has to tell them is the fact she was raped, i don't care if she was raped i'm sorry it happend to her but that still isn't an excuse to murder a kid, give the kid a chance to make a living for his/her self

Usually, when a couple decides to have a child, or even before the have sex, they check to make sure that neither of them are carrying any recessive genetic disease. When a woman gets raped, who knows what this "man" has, and what has he passed on to the child or even the mother. You seem to be focusing so intently on the idea of abortion being wrong, that you are turning your eyes away from what has actually happened. She was RAPED, she most likely doesn't want, or even wants to bear to look at the rapists child. By saying that its just an excuse to murder a kid, from a rape victim, thats just damn ignorant.
QUOTE
once again here we go the life of the new born baby or the life of the mother, any self respecting mother ofcourse would choose the life of the baby over her own for one, I myself yes there is no way out of this your going to lose one or the other, sad to say i Myself ain't sure if i was put in this situation I ain't hundred percent sure what I wold do, but in all truthfullness i hope i make the decistion to choose the kid the mother

lmao, well, I suppose that this is your own choice to sacrifice yourself. Don't expect anyone sane to find this heroic. Instead of trying to have another child, you will kill yourself, so that your child will live. So, that child will grow up without a mother just because you felt that, I don't know, this was the best child you could make, or that you would never be able to do it again? I mean, come on! You have sex again and make another one! I know that sounds kind of crude, but your actually doing the child more harm by not having it raised by a mother figure. If you want to aimlessly kill yourself, just do it yourself, before you ruin the live of your child. OR, you could abort the child, and try again at a later time. Like I have said before, it is your choice to "kill yourself" or not, but don't expect anyone to shed tears for your stupidity.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Lord Odenetheus @ Jun 28 2005, 03:50 AM)
Why not just stop having sex? It's just a human pleasure act, after all. Chastity is a good way to solve the issue.
[snapback]201371[/snapback]



Chasity doesn't always work. Human beings are sexual animals and when they are younger their hormones are more likely to take control of them. It is unrealistic to expect everyone to pratice abstance successfully.

QUOTE(Envy)
well i say this about that, if they are crazy enough to put there own life on the line to kill another, it's there problem they want to be idiots and kill another life, and murder another life, nothing better to risk then your own life to do so right, I hope they make abortion illegal again, yes that may sound sick and sad but i don't care, it's just as sick and sad as thinking of killing a lil kid


First off let me say I don't believe a fetus is the same as a grown sentient adult. I don't see it as a human yet. I don't believe it has a soul yet because look at how easily women can miscarry or re-absorb the fetus back into the body.

That's a very compassionate stance you have there Envy. What if it was someone you cared about like a sister or good friend, maybe even a lover that had to go through that for some reason. Would you want them to die as well?

A lot of people here just see this issue in black and white and I doubt have read any articles about what these woman went through to led up to their decision to terminate their pregnancys. Oh, they should just stop having sex you say. Like I said above humans are sexual beings and they also make mistakes.

What I really think is sick is all these christians saying how the mother should die because she because she had to abort and the precious lump of cells in her uterus is the only thing worth saving.

Is that your kettle Mr black?

QUOTE(NightMistress)
Abortion however does contribute to keeping the population from spiraling out of control more than it already is.


The problem is that even in this day and age birth control is often times looked at as something only sluts use and is often times against some religions. If people were truely educated about birth control the need for abortion would go way down. But, since it is taboo for some they go ahead and do the deed without protection and a lot of times have to sneak off and have an abortion that could of been prevented.

I read an article reciently about a woman who got a perscription for the morning after pill the pharmicist denied her prescription based only on the pharmicists religious views. The pregnancy took and she had to have an abortion because she could not afford another child. Fundie parmicists are really starting to stick their nose into complete strangers business due to their belief system. And women who want to be responsible are the ones to suffer.

I wrote a whole article about it here.

Click on the Fundie Farmicists article.
Carnal Malefactor
It's not alive until it can live outside the womb.

And really, I'm a little surprised that there aren't more vegans in the pro-life contingent.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 28 2005, 12:20 PM)
And really, I'm a little surprised that there aren't more vegans in the pro-life contingent.
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Hehe

Wrong life I guess.
Lord Odenetheus
I'm vegetarian... I eat seafood, though not the more sentient fish.

I think abortion is bad due to the fact that people should realise that it is THEIR fault for not controlling their own bodies, and being weak-minded enough to forget protection when having some morally repugnant sessions... disgusting.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Lord Odenetheus @ Jun 28 2005, 01:47 PM)
I'm vegetarian... I eat seafood, though not the more sentient fish.


All fish are sentient. Unless there's some kind of veggie fish I haven't heard of. Also I don't consider someone a vegetarian if they eat fish. They are still eating an animal.

QUOTE(Lord Odenetheus @ Jun 28 2005, 01:47 PM)
I think abortion is bad due to the fact that people should realise that it is THEIR fault for not controlling their own bodies, and being weak-minded enough to forget protection when having some morally repugnant sessions... disgusting.
[snapback]201550[/snapback]




What about people who did use protection but it failed and what if they are married therefore not committing any sins in the eyes of the lord sort of speak. You can't expect everyone to act the same as you just like I can't expect everyone to act the same as me.

Once again, sexuality is part of human nature that is a fact and sometimes it leads to disasterous results. Not everyone who has sex is weak minded and has problems controlling their bodies and I find it to be a very close minded view of humanity.

EDIT:
I posted this in another thread and wanted to post it here for the new people since the orignal thread was buired months ago:

I used to feel the same way about abortion that a lot of you here do until I started reading several accounts of child abuse that made my blood run cold. I used to be a christian and bought into the whole 'abortion in murder' crap until I started reading about babies being thrown in outhouses and dumpsters alive, basically having post natal abortions performed on them after they became sentient beings. Children being horribly abused by their drugged out parents having things done to them such as being pimped out for drug money. Then there was the account I read recently about a woman who grabbed her toddler by the ankles and slamed her repeatedly into the groud while screaming "You runined my life, you ruined my life!"

Now, I defy anyone to read things like this and tell me abortion should be illegal with a straight face.
WhiteMike
QUOTE(Quistis88 @ Jun 27 2005, 12:21 PM)
Isn't there also debate on when a fetus is considered "human"?  Some say it is already a human on the moment of conception, and some say it doesn't count as a human being until it shows consciousness in the womb, or takes on the form of what resembles a human.
[snapback]200728[/snapback]


I think right now, its like in the second trimester, you can't abort it, legally. Because in the second trimester it has too many human qualities, blah blah blah.
Zarpia
QUOTE(«°~Envy™~°» @ Jun 28 2005, 06:23 AM)
and I'm still a virgin and I don't plan on having sex till i get married
[snapback]201379[/snapback]


I didn't had to knew that ph34r.gif (just joking)
NightMistress
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ Jun 28 2005, 03:13 PM)
QUOTE(Lord Odenetheus @ Jun 28 2005, 03:50 AM)
Why not just stop having sex? It's just a human pleasure act, after all. Chastity is a good way to solve the issue.
[snapback]201371[/snapback]



Chasity doesn't always work. Human beings are sexual animals and when they are younger their hormones are more likely to take control of them. It is unrealistic to expect everyone to pratice abstance successfully.

QUOTE(Envy)
well i say this about that, if they are crazy enough to put there own life on the line to kill another, it's there problem they want to be idiots and kill another life, and murder another life, nothing better to risk then your own life to do so right, I hope they make abortion illegal again, yes that may sound sick and sad but i don't care, it's just as sick and sad as thinking of killing a lil kid


First off let me say I don't believe a fetus is the same as a grown sentient adult. I don't see it as a human yet. I don't believe it has a soul yet because look at how easily women can miscarry or re-absorb the fetus back into the body.

That's a very compassionate stance you have there Envy. What if it was someone you cared about like a sister or good friend, maybe even a lover that had to go through that for some reason. Would you want them to die as well?

A lot of people here just see this issue in black and white and I doubt have read any articles about what these woman went through to led up to their decision to terminate their pregnancys. Oh, they should just stop having sex you say. Like I said above humans are sexual beings and they also make mistakes.

What I really think is sick is all these christians saying how the mother should die because she because she had to abort and the precious lump of cells in her uterus is the only thing worth saving.

Is that your kettle Mr black?

QUOTE(NightMistress)
Abortion however does contribute to keeping the population from spiraling out of control more than it already is.


The problem is that even in this day and age birth control is often times looked at as something only sluts use and is often times against some religions. If people were truely educated about birth control the need for abortion would go way down. But, since it is taboo for some they go ahead and do the deed without protection and a lot of times have to sneak off and have an abortion that could of been prevented.

I read an article reciently about a woman who got a perscription for the morning after pill the pharmicist denied her prescription based only on the pharmicists religious views. The pregnancy took and she had to have an abortion because she could not afford another child. Fundie parmicists are really starting to stick their nose into complete strangers business due to their belief system. And women who want to be responsible are the ones to suffer.

I wrote a whole article about it here.

Click on the Fundie Farmicists article.
[snapback]201513[/snapback]


First off I agree with you on everything, but I'm going to get to your reply to me at hand.

If birth control is against their religion, you'd think abortion would be too. Ah religion can be so confusing at times.

I do agree that learning more about sex and proper precautions are the only way to keep it to a minimum. Having a president in office that wants to promote abstinence instead (and was probably anything BUT that in his day) will only worsen the deal because sex is natural and since humans have gotten the taste of the non-puritan way of life, it is NEVER going to go away.

You are just NOW reading those types of articles? Oh man you don't know the half of it. Several months ago this girl who claimed to have been raped the night before went into a pharmacy to get herself a morning after pill. The pharmacist REFUSED to give it to her because it was against her religious views.

Then for your regular birth control pills (or patch), there have been stories of doctors who refuse to fill it for the same reason. My feelings on that issue are simple though. If you have some type of religious reservation for any part of the job you're doing, YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE THAT JOB!!! This person (who you couldn't PAY me to call a professional) trying to force their religious beliefs on someone would be equally appalled (and probably unwilling to listen) if it were the other way around and that client forced some religious belief on them (ie: their religion doesn't like cars so the pharmacist has to walk 20 miles home). It is completely REDICULOUS and something needs to be done about that rather quickly.

These stories are extremely angering to me and I am SO happy that this isn't a problem for women around here. They promote it a LOT. Birth control pills can be EXPENSIVE depending on what type of insurance you have and you need to take it on a set schedule and it absolutely CANNOT be thrown off. It isn't used strictly for sluts either. Sexually active does NOT make you a slut. Furthermore, many women have it soley for period regulation and pain relief. There is a doctor against using it for these purposes as well (it was a male). He believed that praying would make the pain go away. I'm sorry but a man with a solution like that (who is NEVER going to experience these things) would be lucky if he were the LAST person that I am refer to for this issue. *If* I pray on it (and it will most likely be prayer that my pills kick in), it's because of my own faith, not his.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(NightMistress @ Jun 28 2005, 08:20 PM)
You are just NOW reading those types of articles? Oh man you don't know the half of it.  Several months ago this girl who claimed to have been raped the night before went into a pharmacy to get herself a morning after pill.  The pharmacist REFUSED to give it to her because it was against her religious views. 



Oh, no no no I've been hearing about this for quite some time. I only just wrote something about it.


QUOTE(NightMistress @ Jun 28 2005, 08:20 PM)
Furthermore, many women have it soley for period regulation and pain relief.

There is a doctor  against using it for these purposes as well (it was a male).  He believed that praying would make the pain go away.  I'm sorry but a man with a solution like that (who is NEVER going to experience these things) would be lucky if he were the LAST person that I am refer to for this issue.  *If* I pray on it (and it will most likely be prayer that my pills kick in), it's because of my own faith, not his.


I was on the pill for that very reason and I was a virgin at the time.

And no, praying doesn't make your menstral cramps go away.
NightMistress
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ Jun 29 2005, 01:34 AM)
Oh, no no no I've been hearing about this for quite some time.  I only just wrote something about it.


Oh you know what? I misread your statement where you linked me to the article. I totally missed the "I wrote" part. I was just thinking you were linking to some other one. It's a good article by the way. Glad to hear that the news of this madness is circulating.


QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ Jun 29 2005, 01:34 AM)
I was on the pill for that very reason and I was a virgin at the time.



Same here about the pill. When the doctors realized that I was anemic, they made sure that I was on it right away (it would only come once every 3 or 4 months and last for 4-5 weeks). And futhermore, I literally could not move at times because of the pain and I am NOT kidding. If I could write an ode to the pill, I would.
Lord Odenetheus
You mention that not all those who wih abortion have comitted a sinful act. Well, those who are christian (which I am not, by the way) are supposed to be practising chastity. The marriage was created in the old jew religion, since their "task" was to fill the earth. The christians have marriage for those who cannot control their lusts.

Anyone know what Augustinus said? "Grant me chastity, but not yet". He had one of the worst sexual drives recorded in history, yet he managed later on. Shouldn't that mean that everyone can manage?
Le Monkey
Depends really..
JudasPriest1
I support abortion what a woman does with her body is her own decision so scrue you christian bastards and go your non existant hell.I've said my opinion so I'm gonna go eat something cause I'm starved.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
@NightMistress:

Thanks! I'm glad you like the article.


QUOTE(Lord Odenetheus @ Jun 29 2005, 12:29 AM)
You mention that not all those who wih abortion have comitted a sinful act. Well, those who are christian (which I am not, by the way) are supposed to be practising chastity. The marriage was created in the old jew religion, since their "task" was to fill the earth. The christians have marriage for those who cannot control their lusts.

Anyone know what Augustinus said? "Grant me chastity, but not yet". He had one of the worst sexual drives recorded in history, yet he managed later on. Shouldn't that mean that everyone can manage?
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You're pretty gung ho about the whole abstance thing for someone who is not a christian. And marriage is not for people who can't control their lust marriage is suppose to be between two people who love each other and want to spend the rest of thier lives together.

Oh yes, Saint Augustine yes he did manage to live a chaste life after his debaucherous livestyle but remember you have to perform a miracle to become a saint maybe that was his. laugh.gif

But I've never cared much for him anyway he was the one that come up with the whole "all women are evil" thing when he was the one with the out of control sexual appetite.
the sellout
See, although it goes against my religion, I believe that it should be a woman's choice to do what she wants with her body; therefore, I believe abortion should be legal, period.

I see sometimes a lot of people blaming the couple (especially young ones) for not using any birth control methods, and most of the time I agree, it's their fault; however, you ought to keep in mind most of the young people in America are completely clueless when it comes to birth control, and I don't even hestitate when I say that it's completely the government's fault. I firmly believe that if young kids were given a proper sexual education class in school, it would reduce abortion rate considerably. But with the current government's extremely conservative, I don't see that happening anytime soon. That's why I pray daily (I do a great deal more than praying, believe me, I'm a very politically active child) that next year we get these right-wing nuts out of power.
Hughes_ImissYou
Hm, I am aginest it, they had unsafe sex to get pregnated, Just because the babie is inside you doesnt mean it should have to suffer death before birth...
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