<Closing the thread since I think this thread had run it's course (if it ever started.) ^^ 03/27/07 ~Tombow>

Basics are that if you take a test you may be qualified to take a official test from the lead alchemist in america that would be me
anyway if you interested give me an e-mail an i'll send you your first quiz pass that and you'll get you qualification exam pretty easy the first quiz only has 5 questions (basic knowledge) and the qualifing only 15(avanced) I've had Only 3
people pass one of which is a member here so me adress is dark_flame_alchemist@yahoo.com

So, you're a real "alchemist"? Who made you tha alchemist of America?
I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm just curious.

ya, how does that work?

So, what's the organization's name that credentialed you?

I have to say how annoyed I am at all the alchemist crap that shows up on this forum at times. Goes to show how many idiots there are out there.

yes i'm a real alchemist , my commander in italy,and yes there is a state alchemy central hence funimations idea for the state in full metal alchemist and no i'm an idiot and if you are getting annoyed and if people say they are an alchemist ask them what the green lion devouring thee sun means if they say aquaregia dissolving gold they're right

Well, I guess you can just be another quacky kid who likes to pretend he's an alchemist anyway. I don't really care as there's no way for you to substantiate your claim and there are too many idiots on this site making claims about alchemy that isn't real.

Geez, do you have to be so rude? I mean even if the guy/girl is faking you had no evidence at the time so there was no reason to be rude about anything yet

I can't help but be rude. I think it's annoying that people do this. Even if he/she/it is really an alchemist, it's useless to just go around saying you are as you have no real method of proof anyway. It's another "look at me" topic. I'd rather see topics/conversations that are interesting on their own merits.

*sigh* I suppose I understand where you're coming from...I was just hoping you weren't being needlessly rude like Bacon usually is.

I am being needlessly rude like bacon right now. It takes a lot to get me here, but these topics will do it. Plus it's hot today and I'm feeling like being an ass anyway .

Remember that I pride myself on my knowledge and my knowledge and love of learning, which is derived from accepted academic sources. I read regularly from respected authorities in subjects so as not to be biased.

First of all, the "idea for the state in full metal alchemist" is not FUNimations' idea, but rather, the creator of FMA.


Just because they know what the green lion symbolizes does not necessarily mean they would also know what the red lion stands for, or that they didn't look it up with Google (which only applies if the person in question is asked online). I see real alchemy as a lost science. I have done sufficient research on alchemy to know what I'm talking about, but does that make me an alchemist? No.

And if there is no discussion in this thread, I will close it. Consider this your first and final warning. Even if it's Spam Central, it's more enjoyable for the community as a whole if things stay relatively on-topic.

your are ruder than me, wow.
@dark, do you have any proof of this? like the internet web page, or something like that.

no web page sorry but i did pass the exam so just ask a question about alchemy i'll know thats how your an alchemist just study thats all you have to do but to get more respect you take the exam and the people in this forum should mind there manners

So, let me ask you a few questions:

- What sort of things do they ask you on the exam?
- Do you get to experiment?
- What is Azoth?
- List the representations of coincidentia oppositorum.

I don't have any way to test you, but you'll have to forgive me for not believing you anyway.

And my manners are always this way when there isn't a way to substantiate a claim properly. Perhaps if your field was more mainstream, I'd be more inclined to believe your claims.

mainly about the elements, symbols, and combonatins of them
experiments some times
In alchemy, the Mercury, the first principle
of all the metals.
that last one havent got that far yet apparently

Chemistry, then . . .


What sort of experiments? Please be detailed in descriptions.

Other questions:

- Who is Thoth?
- What is significant about the name "Azoth"?

Thoth is the Egyptian god of Alchemy,wisdom,and writing
In alchemy, there are three symbolic substances: mercury, sulphur, and salt. To these was added a fourth, mysterious life principle called Azoth.Azoth also transalate to the mercury

This is very neo-platonic. Isn't this the idea of negation of properties? I saw somewhere about it being the opposite fo the ascription of all properties to the One.

You said before that all you have to do is study to become an alchemist. Well if Quistis knows more than you does that make her an alchemist? You said it right here...


By the way, your run-on sentences are annoying me. Where's the punctuation? I had to read it a couple times so it could make sense!

What is he also known as to people with no background information?


What is significant about the name itself, I meant.


If you say so then it must be. I had only come across this term during research. It's apparently an idea that can be used in the context of alchemy (symbolic example: hermaphrodites).

I just took a general look now about the term. I'm seeing it used in regards to the overall dialectic process toward knowledge. I think it's a form of the thesis, antithesis, synthesis process.

It's being used also with regards to medieval christian mysticism. I imagine that the mystics and alchemists were quite similar in the middle ages. It wasn't until the later middle ages when you see more logic work being done that this type of stuff began to get less press compared to the more technical philosophy. Then again, I think a lot of today's ideas are respawning of many medieval philosophical methods just repackaged to help people accept it.

Would you mind explaining it a little more indepth? I would like to know.


It could very well go to show that some people really won't buy anything that's not packaged.

Basically the idea that I'm seeing is one where you ascribe qualities and then deny those qualities. The empty space in between the positive and negative qualities is where knowledge can be found. It's very mystical because of the contradictory elements. I'm not sure if this is definite of this term, but this is something that I've seen. In a sense it's an appeal to reach out beyond reason to find truth.

Personally I think it's bogus, but it has its appeal. For me, however, the idea of allowing contradictory statements to exist is just not appealing and really causes major problems. In a sense, it can create a world where communication is absolutely impossible. In fact, no thinking can really be possible if contradictory statements can be held as true at some point. But mysticism likes to think of this stuff as being "deep".

Now you guys are getting ME counfuzzled

what was the question again?

I'm talking about philosophic concepts that have been around for thousands of years. Alchemy more likely than not borrowed the ideas and then mass produced it in it's own way to create the ancient alchemist traditions. Of course most of the alchemist stuff is basterdized versions of any philosophical stuff.

But I'm talking about real alchemy, which isn't the transmutation circle pretend stuff from the series. Even real alchemy isn't reputable in any way when concerned with metaphysics. It's just like all the other "loose thinking" philosophies out there that seem to appeal to some people.

O.K

arche, you're too smart for me. I can't even read your sentences without my brain hurting. ^^;;

I'm like scar, but I use complex sentences to explode your brain.

that one question doesnt mean she's smarter than me don't make a mistake like that again i hate it when people belittle my intellegence

oh yeah lol lucky

Well, if you're going to be arrogant like that, I'd say that you clean up your typing/grammar to show off that intelligence you claim to have. You did claim to be from the US, so I imagine that English is your primary language.

I'll work on that lxl

Ahh, thank you. Nicely explained.


Like you said, it is quite appealing. I think such contradictions is what propels me to want to learn more.


And isn't it true that alchemists used to refer to themselves as "philosophers"?

that's it Quistis88?

thank you. I'm glad I could enlighten you

I think when you take Analytic Philosophy, you'll potentially seem more of the issues with contradictions like that. On the other hand, it may show you that the logical views are just trapping us into inappropriate arguments


I really haven't researched or looked at alchemy in any way, but my understanding is that it's an attempt to understand and manipulate the world through a comprehensive view of metaphysics. The problem is that the metaphysics is really weak and not well substantiated. Basically the foundations are questionable.

And what, pray tell, do you mean by that? You haven't answered my questions either.


You always enlighten me, actually. Every time you make one of those really long and detailed posts in random places.


What fun. I am looking forward to class.


In what way is the metaphysics weak? Please elaborate, sir.

I have one question dark, isn't Thoth also the Egyptian god of the moon. studies never metioned any alchemy involved. I'm a big myth reader. so u would think i would know that by now right? anyway, i'm studying ancient times in history. and egypt comes up a lot in myths, gods, goddesses, etc. and if it did say ALCHEMY it would obviously pop up cause i watch Fullmetal ALCHEMIST isn't that enough proof?

I'm speaking here about popular metaphysics primarily. Many people like to just state things about the nature of the world, but what gives rise to those beliefs? I could go around saying that there's some property of reality that allows all matter to interact with each other. Let's call it B-property. So, if everything has this B-property, as long as we can tap into it, we can potentially alter matter. But why even believe there is a B-property? Is there even a condition available that allows us to either empirically or logically know it exists? Is there a history of recognized written materials on it and if so, what is the critical authority of it?

In a sense, this is like all those people who like to just believe in things like scientologists, new age crystal stuff, etc... It's not to say that these things are impossible, but there seems to be no reason to believe one way or another. As a result, why bother believing it. I guess that's true of alchemy also. I think they had some belief about the nature of matter and that the underlying properties could be changed to alter matter. It doesn't seem meaningful to believe this as there's no way to substantiate it logically or empirically. It's an extra principle about the world that has no real value in producing good metaphysics.

I would also like to thank you arche for this!


is that a class from arche?
Can i join?
No.. maybe not.. I doubt i could comprehend the advanced ideas of life the universe and annoying n00bs that you two are so well verced on.

So, in other words, their beliefs are primarily based on reasons that can neither be proved or disproved?

On a side note, I find it funny how it is so human to want to categorize things, place everything into its own place. We have names for everything, even things that do not/may/may not exist. Like unicorns.


No, it's a class I am planning on taking next year at university.

I wonder if the day will ever come for me when I can chitter and chat like arche and Quis.

I do so hope so. I just can't wait until I can go to college and study abroad with people who spend most of their life with these types of mind-throbbing thoughts. I could learn forever. Truly, I could. I don't like the work, but it comes with the territory. And if hard work is what I must do to learn, then so be it!

*drina collapses in awe.*

XD

Yes and no. I think that there are weak corrolations that people like to link to. They may see something that makes sense and hold to it regardless of what tests can be done. This is what I think the popular mind does and a reason for many strange views that people have. I prefer to be more dispassionate and willing to reject my own thinking in an effort to strengthen my thinking.

We do classify things. I think that it's very helpful for people to do that as it provides a matrix with which to work. If you think about it, stereotyping is very important to human society and is required in most of our daily activities. Some may be able to accept more varied stereotypes, but there is always some statistically consistent set of behaviors that fit an individual's behavior within the behavior of a group.

You'll face unicorns in Analytic Philosophy. Basic issue is how can a term that does not exist refer to anything. To what does the term "unicorn" refer? What is the actual meaning of the term "unicorn" and how can meaning be obtained if it refers to a set with no members.

@Drina: If you think a lot, you can get into this stuff. There's always a lot to learn, but continually reading without giving up on how hard it is to understand something is the key. Sometimes you won't understand a book the first time you read it, but over time, you may get a picture of what it says after reading other books. When you go back to read that hard to understand book, you will then find it's much easier to get. Key concept is to just read, read, read .

You and me both .

@Dark_Water_Alchemist: this is off topic but how old are you? I don't think I ever caught your age. I'm curious.

according to his profile, his birthday is October 31, 1990, so....14?

lol good one all i want to know is when he will email me back

That is my life's goal.

Ahh, yes, that is a good idea. I should as well. I do reject many of my own thoughts, but probably not often enough.


That's true, it does keep things organized. How would relativity play into this, then? What one person classifies as something may be classifed as something else to another individual, and people who have not yet categorized said thing would be confused. Would this be like disorder in the midst of order?


Excellent. I've always wanted to know. Now, no matter how bad I might do in that class, I don't think I would ever drop it.


Look, arche, we're providing kids with ambitions.

Cultural and individual relativity is always a factor. It's the reason why we try to appeal to logical processes via linguistics. One issue is that regardless of cultural and individual differences, there seems to be an aggregated average use of language, which can help show some hints of objective reality. Basically this is the big debate, are there absolutes, if so, can we know and act upon the absolutes. On the other side, if there is ultra relativity, how can we communicate to one another? What is the basis of any knowledge we have?


Yes, let's see if any really follow up on those ambitions. I'd rather have people be ambitious to actually obtain knowledge and critical thinking than follow a dubious claim of becoming a "State Alchemist"

Darn..
v_v
it would be a good idea though!!



I may be compleately wrong about this.. but i would like to attempt to join you..
Not saying im as smatr/inteligent as you too so obviously are but.. Im not stupid..
I would think that almost everything that dose or dose not exist will exist in someones mind smewhere... Eg. somone somewhere belives that they live and see unicorns on a dayly basis... but they are horses that they have convinced themselves that they have a horn...
Aolso i would say that the only reason that we humans belive in absolutes are that we (I use that thurm looslely SP?) dont like to think that anything is unshure or not 'in its place' because we are,.... ultimately helpless in the flow of things... And i have now lost my flow... And im shure thats awfull... but its a start....
Well thanks for reading it and im shure im way off track but.. its close... i think..





well if her runs into our houses transmutating chairs into tables and back again..
Then i would congradulate and acknowlage his claims... until then..
Let the kid have deams..

Hey Quistis88 I found out what u where talking about a while ago.
"Azoth" is the name for the universal spirit,the philosopher's mercury,
the greatest mystery in alchemy. the names sugnifficance is that it contains the letters a and z,cabqlistically the first and last thing in creation