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Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > Fullmetal Alchemist Discussions > Fullmetal Alchemist Anime (FMA-1) > Original Japanese episodes (with sub)
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Chibi Viki
got this info in AAA hompage. I didn't want to rewrite it because i might misinterpret... so... here's the latest news from Funimation on FMA:




-DVDs will begin being released in January. 3-4 episodes will be included on each disc. There will be 16 discs total. MSRP is US$24.98 each.

-Chris Sabat had offhandedly said that he had just finished recording his lines as Alex Louis Armstrong for the FmA PS2 game.

-Funi's promo clips for FmA on Cartoon Network now say "November 2004"

-The 2nd opening animation will be the ONLY one aired on FmA's CN run, due to Funi partnering with Tofu Records (they handle L'Arc~En~Ciel in the USA). The normal openings/endings will be included in the unedited DVDs.

-Ed's dub voice by a GUY is higher pitched than Ed's Japanese voice done by a WOMAN. Considering how much the anime softened Ed's personality compared to the manga, this may be an accpetable thing. Also, Al's still sounds like the child actor acting poorly with a Texan accent. Good news is that the dubs being circulated at the conventions is a "rough dub." Some of the voices used will be replaced, but there was no indication of which ones.

***********************

i'm starting to pity the people who'll be watching the funimation version. sad.gif ;;
RolfKaese
not that new for me ^^
its a few weeks old i guess. but okay to be posted here :>

and i dont care about that stuff, europe rules XD
motoh
::smacks face into desk. Hard.::

Must hurry and finish the series... before... Funimation defiles...

I don't mind broadcasted anime... but god, do a half competent job of it... get the licenses for all the openings... half...@--sed...
rsF
[gives up hope of any miracles]
As expected, this would happen...
wolfi1412
oh.. I do pity ppl who's watching the FUNi version of FMA...
Kasumi
I will stay FAR away from the FUNi version of FMA... thx for the info...
Guest
Ugh... second is the worst song and opening.'

It's very... i don't know... "anime-ish"

The first and last are better by far...
hononorenkinjutsushi
WAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


FUNimation is going to screw it up. Bad dubbing is one thing, but how are these fresh, papery people (who call themselves DUBBERS) going to handle the amount of blood? Cut whole episodes?! Of FMA?

And is it just me, or is the Kansai accent always perverted to Western drawl? dry.gif
MaesHughes
QUOTE(hononorenkinjutsushi @ Aug 25 2004, 03:40 AM)
And is it just me, or is the Kansai accent always perverted to Western drawl? dry.gif

hehe, anyone who has the first Excel Saga dvd can appreciate the humor of that statement. or even if you've seen the dubbed version, the voice actress for the "Good Excel"... yeah.

but full metal alchemist will be finished and (hopefully) totally fan subbed before november, won't it? so those of us watching it fan subbed will have seen all of it already. ph34r.gif
Plastic Yakuza
Only about 6 more episodes left now. So we should be getting the last one in october as long as they keep coming out with out too many more delays.
cirle
Ready, Steady, Screw you Funmation I'm not shelling out 16*24.99= $400. I mean a box set will probably be $200 or maybe even $150 but WTF. Are you gonna do it DBZ style and release one every month?

I do not even want to watch the edited CN versions for free. I think I will stick to the free fansubs.

After seeing the anime in japanese there is no way you can watch a dub. The voices have already made an imprint in our minds and unless there are massive translation errors there are no reason to get the DVD's or sit through horrible CN episodes.

Please Trust Me.
odoridan
Some of this news is new to me. Thanks Chibi Viki.

There's so much negativity on this thread. Have a little false hope here people.

I won't comment on the DVD pricing but it looks like this thread will eventually degrade into a licensing/fansub/piracy argument regardless of what I say.

I'm happy to hear they could replace Al's voice. I only heard the Al from the trailer on their website doing the touka koukan speech and gawd ph34r.gif it is awful. I will stay very far away if they use an awful child actor like that but if they change it, I will be able watch it.
Chibi Viki
from what i hear, armstrong's voice actor is the same voice actor as DBZ's piccolo... i hate piccolo's voice... but maybe he'll do a good job with armstrong?

anyway, look at the bright side, at least the US version of Tobenai Tenshi is sure to come out next year. I just hope they have enough heart to put in a japanese voice option...
ZetaStriker
Great, in my absence a bunch of sub elitists took over these boards. You haven't even heard the dub they're going to use yet and already you claim it will be horrible.

I swear, if even one person starts mentioning how it's their right to download FMA subs, enjoy the series and then not buy the DVDs...
Crimsonblade
QUOTE(ZetaStriker @ Aug 25 2004, 10:07 PM)
Great, in my absence a bunch of sub elitists took over these boards. You haven't even heard the dub they're going to use yet and already you claim it will be horrible.

I swear, if even one person starts mentioning how it's their right to download FMA subs, enjoy the series and then not buy the DVDs...

Thats not the argument that anyone is making. Japanese people can watch the series without having to pay a dime and watch it in its original artistic form. We only want the same thing, and fansubbers do us a service by translating it. Thats all.

In my mind, the only thing Funimation is doing is dubbing the show and wanting people to purchase it like that. I want to watch the series in japanese, and hell, I'll even read off a notepad for the translations if I have to.
TheVileOne
QUOTE(motoh @ Aug 24 2004, 04:15 PM)
::smacks face into desk.  Hard.::

Must hurry and finish the series... before... Funimation defiles...

I don't mind broadcasted anime... but god, do a half competent job of it... get the licenses for all the openings... half...@--sed...

Geez, you know people, you might want to actually give the stuff a try before you knock it and say its horrible. Yes funimation has done crap work before, but they've done great work as well. FMA is their top priority so I think they will do a good job with it.

People need to get over the openings. You have your downloaded fansubs with the regular openings, and the DVD's will have all the regular openings and endings intact. Newsflash guys, THIS SHOW IS ON ADULT SWIM! They hardly ever even show the anime openings for new shows on Adult Swim, so I think we are lucky to at least get to see one opening when its broadcast on TV. The 2nd opening is the one they picked probably b/c the animation shows a wide/broad range of characters and more of the general plot than the other openings. So chill out.

The editing, again, this show is on Adult Swim, and so if you guys have watched anything on Cartoon Network's adult swim you will know we are in good hands. They are not going to horrendously edit or slash the show as many predict. FYI, there were less edits to Cowboy Bebop on Adult Swim than when it was originally broadcast on Japanese TV! So put that on your bun and eat it tongue.gif !

And you know what, even if they suck, you all have your precious free downloaded Japanese subs on your hard drives...so like the Rock says, "KNOW YOUR ROLE AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH!"
Haroken
NOOOOOOOO.



I told you all. Sabat defiles everything he touches.
Guest
QUOTE(Crimsonblade @ Aug 25 2004, 10:34 PM)
Thats not the argument that anyone is making. Japanese people can watch the series without having to pay a dime and watch it in its original artistic form. We only want the same thing, and fansubbers do us a service by translating it. Thats all.

In my mind, the only thing Funimation is doing is dubbing the show and wanting people to purchase it like that. I want to watch the series in japanese, and hell, I'll even read off a notepad for the translations if I have to.

Newsflash: Japanese people don't watch their anime for free. Some channels require you to pay for subscription. Some public channels 'occassionally' knock on your door to collect TV Licenses. All channels (except PPV) request that you put up with the advertisements/commercials.

Go read up more on what the TV broadcasting system is like in Japan before you go spewing the "Anime is free for Japan" myth/lie.

And if you sorely want to watch the series in Japanese, why do you even bother with translations in the first place. Learning Japanese to understand it and know first-hand what's going on is the logical and 'correct' thing to reason with.
ZetaStriker
I told you all. Sabat defiles everything he touches.

Saban isn't involved, so why you're bitching about them, I don't know.
Crimsonblade
QUOTE(Guest @ Aug 26 2004, 02:03 AM)
QUOTE(Crimsonblade @ Aug 25 2004, 10:34 PM)
Thats not the argument that anyone is making. Japanese people can watch the series without having to pay a dime and watch it in its original artistic form. We only want the same thing, and fansubbers do us a service by translating it. Thats all.

In my mind, the only thing Funimation is doing is dubbing the show and wanting people to purchase it like that. I want to watch the series in japanese, and hell, I'll even read off a notepad for the translations if I have to.

Newsflash: Japanese people don't watch their anime for free. Some channels require you to pay for subscription. Some public channels 'occassionally' knock on your door to collect TV Licenses. All channels (except PPV) request that you put up with the advertisements/commercials.

Go read up more on what the TV broadcasting system is like in Japan before you go spewing the "Anime is free for Japan" myth/lie.

And if you sorely want to watch the series in Japanese, why do you even bother with translations in the first place. Learning Japanese to understand it and know first-hand what's going on is the logical and 'correct' thing to reason with.

Kay, I didn't know that. Is FMA on a subscription channel?
Haroken
No, I'm talking about Chris SABAT. A voice actor. He did the funi voice for Piccolo VEgeta, and Yamucha amongst others for FUNi. He sucks. He's Doing one of my fave characters, Armstrong.


HE DEFILES EVERYTHING HE TOUCHES!



And I haven't seen Saban touch anything since power rangers.
Vashin
QUOTE
In my mind, the only thing Funimation is doing is dubbing the show and wanting people to purchase it like that. I want to watch the series in japanese, and hell, I'll even read off a notepad for the translations if I have to.



Ummm... you do know DVDs come with subtitles. I guess someone like you has never bought an anime DVD... heck every DVD comes with subtitles, and even some with different language tracks. Without a doubt there WILL be the original Japanese language track.

I've purchased Fruits Basket, a series done by FUNi and I had no major qualms with it.

My only peeve is... there probably won't be any special 'stuff' coming out with the DVDs.

Oh well, chances are I will probably purchase this series since it is pretty good. Of course it still depends on FUNi. In the end if you haven't wached it, you can't judge it. So I'll see what the first DVD is like before making a decision.
Cherry
-.- This argument has come up so many times in so many forms that it just seems old.

I hate dubbers with passion, mainly because they just don't do they're jobs. They don't translate an anime to make it understandable by English-speaking viewers - they edit it to their hearts' content, replace dialogue wherever they want, get cheap voice actors, and change things to a rediculous point.

Lately, they've been getting better, but that's only because anime is becoming more popular in English-speaking countries, and enough fans like you and me flame them to death about it. Nevertheless, you can never expect too much with these people. In today's society, their priority is how much profit they can get out of a licence for something popular.

For that reason, I hate supporting them. I hate seeing money out of my wallet go to dubbers so they can butcher more good anime. If it were going to the MAKERS of the anime, that'd be fine with me, but dubbing is not a cause I can support unless the company does an oustanding job of it. And that happens rarely.

But hey, the main reason I can't stand dubbers is that a lot of people, my friends included, can't watch the originals. For people who've ONLY seen a dub on TV because they pay for cable, if even that, they might not get a chance to see an anime the way it was meant to be seen.

Now regarding FMA, it is my very favorite anime so far, and I think it'll remain that way for a while. It saddens me to think that a lot of this country's residents might watch episode 1 without the attracting opening and music to draw them in, get scared away by bad voice acting, and walk away from the TV because they totally missed the story's high points due to lousy presentation. The thought of that happening makes me want to strangle Funimation.

Yes, I realize the first episode showed the opening at the end, but the first season's opening presented the mood of the anime so well, as did the ending. And I can't believe they won't show the second ending! It was the best one, in my oppinion. I have nothing against the second opening; I rather like it. But I wouldn't want to see it with the whole series. And all because of licencing issues. There's that whole money thing again.

We don't have to watch the dub; we can ignore it all we like. We can buy the disks to see the subbed version, or we can import them from Japan. Or we can go watch our fansubs like most people do anyway. But if I start talking about FMA to my friends, and they say "oh THAT boring show about alchemy and some armor dude with an annoying voice?", then I'll know just how well Funimation did their job.

Sorry about the rant.
Vashin
QUOTE
-.- This argument has come up so many times in so many forms that it just seems old.


Yet you continue to argue...

QUOTE
Lately, they've been getting better, but that's only because anime is becoming more popular in English-speaking countries, and enough fans like you and me flame them to death about it.


As anime gets more popular so the voice acting improves--it doesn't take too much brain power to figure that out. Think about it. Japan's anime market is very large in comparison to North America's. Being a voice actor is a viable career, perhaps even a dream job for some. How about over here? Have you ever wished to be an english voice actor? Chances are the Japanese VAs will have better voices because they have a larger quantity of VAs to choose from.

QUOTE
In today's society, their priority is how much profit they can get out of a licence for something popular.


Since when was this NOT a priority? Companies decide to convert manga to anime because they see profit behind it. Heck when they've used up all their budget... they make the anime end up pretty bad. (ie Kareshi Kanojo no jijou)

QUOTE
For that reason, I hate supporting them. I hate seeing money out of my wallet go to dubbers so they can butcher more good anime. If it were going to the MAKERS of the anime, that'd be fine with me, but dubbing is not a cause I can support unless the company does an oustanding job of it.


Firstly why do you call them dubbers? Companies like FUNi to much more than that... and you do know there are such things as good dubs. (thinking FLCL right here)
You do know there's such thing as licensing fees. The company has to pay the Japanese makers of the anime in order to distribute it in North America. So technically your money IS going to the makers.

QUOTE
But hey, the main reason I can't stand dubbers is that a lot of people, my friends included, can't watch the originals. For people who've ONLY seen a dub on TV because they pay for cable, if even that, they might not get a chance to see an anime the way it was meant to be seen.


It takes half a brain to download these fansubs you seem to hold so dear to yourself. If they really wanted to see it... nothing's really stopping them. Heck shell in 25 dollars and you get DVD quality in video and sound. I surmise that you watch fansubs right? If so... you're not watching anime how it was meant to be seen. On TV/DVD without subtitles are their original format, not fansubs.

QUOTE
Now regarding FMA, it is my very favorite anime so far, and I think it'll remain that way for a while. It saddens me to think that a lot of this country's residents might watch episode 1 without the attracting opening and music to draw them in, get scared away by bad voice acting, and walk away from the TV because they totally missed the story's high points due to lousy presentation. The thought of that happening makes me want to strangle Funimation.


Haha is that so? Just think of how many dragon ball fanboys there are... it seems they have no problem with the dubbing/censorship etc. because they've never seen the original! You only complain because you have something to compare to. I'm quite sure Adult Swim recieved a lot of positive responses from FLCL viewings from people that've never watched the original.

Again, we have no idea how well FUNi will deal with FMA. So keep quiet until then.

QUOTE
But if I start talking about FMA to my friends, and they say "oh THAT boring show about alchemy and some armor dude with an annoying voice?", then I'll know just how well Funimation did their job.


Why don't you just lend them your FMA DVD? Oh right... you're a purist that prefers to take the free meal, but you can at least show them the fansubs. I'd like to reiterate that you do not know how FUNi will do with FMA, isn't there a possibility that they will like it?

I like to rant

edit: Quotes don't like me T_T
Cherry
I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my post, Vashin. I was not arguing or making a point of any kind. I was simply stating my personal reasons for disliking dubbers. In fact, the one arguing is you. Arguing with oppinions.

While you may have made some solid points, I resent the sarcasm. Your entire post was just plain rude and insulting. Even if you support dubbing companies like Funimation, there was no reason to get that offensive.

I refuse to argue further because that would just be immature. I would, however, like to point out to you that not all people can afford to pay $25 for 3 or 4 episodes. Some can barely afford cable and can't download fansubs because they have a dial-up connection. What is aired is the best they can get, and I believe that best should be better. That, however, is my own view. Argue with it all you like.

By the way, a lot of people associate anime with cartoons only because that was the way dubbing companies presented it in many cases. I'm sure a lot more of my friends would have given anime a chance if it weren't for that, but most won't even look at any DVDs or fansubs I can offer.
Envious...
My only problem with badly dubbed/edited FMA is that many people in the U.S. who have never seen the anime may be thrown off by the changes, and never look twice at it again.

This would be sad since FMA is one great show.
pwx
Ugh can't everyone just chill? Please?

This arguement is so old. It's gone on with every anime that's ever been liscensed and it's going to go on from the looks of it.

You don't have to listen to the dub. You don't have to like the dub. You don't have to watch FMA when it appears on Adult Swim. You could keep your fansubs all you want and nobody would be the wiser

BUT

1) Saying that they are going to defile the series is a bit too harsh. What's so defiling about dubbing it and bringing it to a wider audience of people who might not normally see it? Not everyone is a crazed anime fan with broadband connections and access to its info. Things like FMA are the type of stuff that really gets people interested and saying "Hmm maybe I should have a look into anime." Sure some might be idiots but some can also become future comrades in our obsession. They more people interested people in anime means better conventions, more anime available in local stores (rather than speciality places), and a better bond with people

Voices don't defile an anime but attitudes do. Will you think less of FMA afterwards? No. Will the general dub watcher think any less of the series? Not really. If they changed the plot, changed everyones names, or did something similar I would be up in arms with you, but is dubbing really that big of a deal that you need to piss and whine about it?

Some will like subbed, some will like dubbed. That's no reason we can't still enjoy the anime together.
Vashin
I like pie.
ZetaStriker
Meh, I'm feeling argumentative, so why not continue thisw debate? As long as it doesn't degenerate into a flame way, I'm all for it. But first...

No, I'm talking about Chris SABAT. A voice actor. He did the funi voice for Piccolo VEgeta, and Yamucha amongst others for FUNi. He sucks. He's Doing one of my fave characters, Armstrong.

My bad. I've had to deal with people complaining about Funimation's past partner companies before, and I thought your post might have been a resurgence of that. Of course, to be fair, Saban defiles everything it touches as well.

Moving on...

Now regarding FMA, it is my very favorite anime so far, and I think it'll remain that way for a while. It saddens me to think that a lot of this country's residents might watch episode 1 without the attracting opening and music to draw them in, get scared away by bad voice acting, and walk away from the TV because they totally missed the story's high points due to lousy presentation. The thought of that happening makes me want to strangle Funimation.

First of all, the lack of an opening should never ruin a series. If it does, then it's pretty obvious that the series wasn't any good in the first place. Everything else from your first post has already been argued by Vashin though, so I've really got nothing else I feel like adding to that.

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my post, Vashin. I was not arguing or making a point of any kind

Your entire post states otherwise. You stated a point of view, and then tried to back it up with factsw. While you may not have been trying to start an argument, you were definitely making a point. Why am I bothered by this? I'm not, I just feel like pointing it out. As I said, I'm feeling argumentative.

In fact, the one arguing is you. Arguing with oppinions.

I'm normally a grammar whore when I do these sorts of things, but I'm not gonna bother right now. So... I guess I'll just point out the parts of Vashin's post that were fact. If you're wondering which is which, the parts in bold are facts.


As anime gets more popular so the voice acting improves--it doesn't take too much brain power to figure that out. Think about it. Japan's anime market is very large in comparison to North America's. Being a voice actor is a viable career, perhaps even a dream job for some. How about over here? Have you ever wished to be an english voice actor? Chances are the Japanese VAs will have better voices because they have a larger quantity of VAs to choose from

Since when was this NOT a priority? Companies decide to convert manga to anime because they see profit behind it. Heck when they've used up all their budget... they make the anime end up pretty bad. (ie Kareshi Kanojo no jijou)


Firstly why do you call them dubbers? Companies like FUNi to much more than that... and you do know there are such things as good dubs. (thinking FLCL right here)
You do know there's such thing as licensing fees. The company has to pay the Japanese makers of the anime in order to distribute it in North America. So technically your money IS going to the makers.


It takes half a brain to download these fansubs you seem to hold so dear to yourself. If they really wanted to see it... nothing's really stopping them. Heck shell in 25 dollars and you get DVD quality in video and sound. I surmise that you watch fansubs right? If so... you're not watching anime how it was meant to be seen. On TV/DVD without subtitles are their original format, not fansubs.

Haha is that so? Just think of how many dragon ball fanboys there are... it seems they have no problem with the dubbing/censorship etc. because they've never seen the original! You only complain because you have something to compare to. I'm quite sure Adult Swim recieved a lot of positive responses from FLCL viewings from people that've never watched the original.

Again, we have no idea how well FUNi will deal with FMA. So keep quiet until then.

Why don't you just lend them your FMA DVD? Oh right... you're a purist that prefers to take the free meal, but you can at least show them the fansubs. I'd like to reiterate that you do not know how FUNi will do with FMA, isn't there a possibility that they will like it?

I like to rant


And... now back to you.

While you may have made some solid points, I resent the sarcasm. Your entire post was just plain rude and insulting. Even if you support dubbing companies like Funimation, there was no reason to get that offensive.

I can understand why he did it, you gave the impression you weren't going to support FMA in any form. People like that, in my mind, give anime fans a bad name. As long as you're willing to pick up the DVDs in some form though(Buy the jap version if you're such a purist, just make sure not to get HK bootlegs...), I don't really care what your opinion is. As long as you're not being a troll/idiot about it, that is.

I refuse to argue further because that would just be immature. I would, however, like to point out to you that not all people can afford to pay $25 for 3 or 4 episodes. Some can barely afford cable and can't download fansubs because they have a dial-up connection. What is aired is the best they can get, and I believe that best should be better. That, however, is my own view. Argue with it all you like.

Stop blaming 'dubbers' for it then, the edits they have to make are forced on them by either:

A. A partner company involved in the project(example: whoever was partnered with Funi when they were doing DBZ. I think it was Saban, but I'm not positive)

B. The network they intend to show it on(example: Fox Kids or Kids WB)

or C. The censors make the network play the middle man and force some half-assed last minute changes(example: Gundam SEED's 'laser gun')

Oh, and also, arguing isn't immature. If it degrades into a flame war, then yes, but as long as it's strictly a debate then there isn't anything wrong with it.

By the way, a lot of people associate anime with cartoons only because that was the way dubbing companies presented it in many cases. I'm sure a lot more of my friends would have given anime a chance if it weren't for that, but most won't even look at any DVDs or fansubs I can offer.

90% of the time, people who think that way do it because they're completely uninformed on the subject. The other 10% has probably been influenced by DBZ, which is not only a below-average anime series at best, but had the second worst editing job I've heard of. Sailor Moon takes the top spot on the list, with it's many unaired episodes and the fact that the first seasons finale was edited so horribly that not only is it's storyline completely different from the original, but they managed to cut two linked episodes down to one.

Well, that's it really. I hope someone decides to continue this, I'm rather fond of large-scale debates.
odoridan
QUOTE(odoridan @ Aug 25 2004, 06:39 PM)
it looks like this thread will eventually degrade into a licensing/fansub/piracy argument regardless of what I say.

Yep. *nods head*. Told ya.
ZetaStriker
I don't see how it degraded to the argument though. It started off with needless Funimation bashing. Intelligently handled arguments > needless bashing.
wolfi1412
well, what I heard, why they have to refill those voices, some say because most of the ppl that's living in North America (US, Canada, Mexico) doesn't really like reading subtitles.... so they have to refill their voices even though sometimes it doesn't match (like Eriol in Cardcaptors..)
Naru
Just out of curiosity...how many of you have actually -seen- the dub, as opposed to what I see as being, "oh, I KNOW they'll screw it over!" talk?

Honestly, after watching the first episode (er...twice. thanks, Otakon advertising), I honestly think the dubbing was pretty good. Granted, I've seen some BAD dubs (Fushigi Yuugi, anyone?), and I haven't seen the subbed (I know, I know, I probably should before I start talking... .__.; ). But I think FUNimation has been gradually increasing the quality of their dubbed work - have any of you seen Detective Conan on CN, for instance? They changed some of the names, which was weird, but the dubbing and voice acting was pretty good. And I've heard the Fruits Basket dub was good, although I haven't seen it.

Speaking of, Adult Swim is EXTREMELY lenient about censoring. I watched the same episode of "Family Guy" on AS and on FOX, and they cut out more on Fox! Also, with shows like Conan (which often involve death and such as plot), they hardly edit anything that I can tell.

Just my couple'a cents. ^^; Honestly, I'm glad I just get to see it at all (...or would get to see it, if my dorm had cable -___-). I'd just say, stop nitpicking over little details like which openings they use, etc... Wait and see how it is before you judge, I guess, is all I'm saying. ^^;;;
Guest
Dunno if this is a point of any kind or anything... dun wanna prolong the argument. But I think I once read an interview with the dub voice actress for Tohru Honda from Fruits Basket. (End of the 1st manga volume from Tokyopop) Funimation did the Fruits Basket anime too, right? Anywayz, I'm not too familiar with how stuff is dubbed, but from what I understood from the interview, they don't make the dub actors watch the original or anything like that. It's more like, "here's the story, and you should sound like so while reciting these here lines." Is that normal? Like I said, this might be perfectly normal and not mean anythin, but shouldn't they at least have them see the original to understand the character they're voicing better? That would kinda explain why quite a bit of dub voices sound robotty.
If this is the way they still do things, they're not making much effort to stay original. Dunno how the FMA dub will be. Dun wanna judge from anything else since I didn't see the previews or the first trailer. (They have a different't one on the site now, right? It doesn't have any voices, just narration) Whatever. As long as it's not butchered like Cardcaptor Sakura or Yu-Gi-Oh, I'll be happy. Compared to people like Nelvana and 4Kids, Funimation isn't bad. And dubbers stopped totally destroying anime by changing stories to better suite audiences nowadays, so I'll complain when I have something to complain about.
TheVileOne
QUOTE(Envious... @ Aug 27 2004, 07:18 AM)
My only problem with badly dubbed/edited FMA is that many people in the U.S. who have never seen the anime may be thrown off by the changes, and never look twice at it again.

This would be sad since FMA is one great show.

On the same token, FMA being broadcast nationally on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim could introduce it to new audiences and people and make it even more popular. People who've never had the oppurtunity to see the series before, and that will get them interested in getting the subbed and dubbed versions on DVD.
Mizukori
I love FMA, and I hate dubs.

But I don't think the "rough" FMA dub I saw at Otakon was all that bad. Al sounds fine (though it's hard to tell after one episode). Ed's voice may not match up, and may be rather... typical... but the guy has talent, so I'm not complaining.

Voices can suck so long as they aren't emotionless. I've seen some bad dubs, and this isn't with them.

Dubs are dubs; by default, they won't be great. What can you do? They aren't the original. But dub is also how people get into anime (most of the time, anyhow) and specific shows. If FMA was never dubbed, the fanbase would become extremely small... which means less murchandise (I for one LIKE to own murchandise of shows I support), WAY less American murchandise (we can't all afford Japanese important stuff), and possibly less quality (I've seen what low ratings have done to shows.) Plus... if you REALLY love the show, you'll want to see it become popular... just because. Typically I'd say that less fans could be a good thing (anime fans, especially dub ones, drive me nuts), but I'm already seeing Furhrer X Ed douji on eBay... so if I can deal with THAT, I can deal with some stupid American dubby fans.

Besides, again, for a dub, it's not THAT bad. ( Cornello was, but I've yet to see a well-dubbed minor anime villian. Whaddya gonna do? e.e;; )
Funimation hater
If you all hate funimation so much why don't you e-mail them?

Their site didn't have an e-mail address since thy're afraid of hate-mail overload. But! Since I was so bored I checked out their site, and learned they want to have an anime channel of their dubbed series. (mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif)
But that's not the important part. After taking an online survey, they thought it was safe to give their e-mail address to me. So here it is:

projecttv@funimation.com
Vashin
Oh my... ZetaStriker, you really surprised me. I thought I was the only one (here) that enjoys intelligent debate... I'm not alone!
Please, please excuse my poor grammar from that previous post. My mind wasn't working too well at 5:30ish am in the morning.
wolfi1412
well, let's just hope they might reply back and the voice actors didn't screwed up bad and they sound alike
blackasknight90
That sounds cool i cant wait for the game to come out
angieness
To pretty much destroy any arguement any anti dub person will ever have, here is an article from animenewsnetwork.com, you can read it all here
http://animenewsnetwork.com/columns/DubTrack.php?id=11
here's the best parts from the article which is full of logic that was presented in this thread


"Subtitles are superior to dubs, because the translation is more accurate.

I'm starting with this argument, because it's the only one which holds even a drop of water. It's true the compromises needed to adapt a translated script for dubbing are greater than those needed for subtitling. However, you're fooling yourself if you think subtitling doesn't involve any compromises at all. A good subtitle script adapts the dialogue into subtitles that can be easily read in the time available. Occasionally, this can mean tightening things up a bit, shortening a sentence so that it fits on one screen. And let's face it; some lines simply don't translate well, period. Subtitles don't change that.

Admittedly, it's rare, but a good dub can provide a better interpretation of the script than the sub. Take, for example, Aeka from Tenchi Muyo. Her character's nobility and formality are expressed by having her speak in an outlandishly formal dialect of Japanese. Unless you speak Japanese, this nuance will be lost on you, and there's no elegant way of expressing it in a subtitle. In the English dub, however, Jennifer Darling solves the problem with her delivery, giving Aeka a "noble" accent.

So yes, subtitles provide a superior translation to dubs. But the gap isn't as big as some would make it.


I only watch subtitles because I want the same original experience the Japanese viewers received.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but you're not getting it. Unless you speak Japanese and can watch the anime raw, you can never have the same experience as the Japanese viewers. The amazing truth is that watching a good dub brings you much closer to the original experience than a subtitle.

Don't buy it? Then answer this: Do you really think the director intended his work to be viewed with yellow letters pasted over it? Given that anime is a visual artform, it's amazing to me that dub-haters can watch anime obscured by subtitles and think they're receiving a superior experience. Subtitles obscure the artwork, and they take your eyes away from where the director intended for you to look. Unless you have amazing peripheral vision, you have to flick your eyes to the bottom of the screen every few seconds to read the next title. This is most certainly not the "original experience".

Subtitles are annoying. If you don't believe me, try watching a DVD of an American movie with the Spanish or French subtitles turned on. (Assuming you speak neither of those languages.) See how long you last before you reach for the remote. As anime fans, we have merely gotten used to them, so much so that we think of them as "not really there". The most striking illustration of this occurred when ADV released the first DVD of Evangelion, in which they used digital text overlays to translate signs. This was a brilliant solution. The Japanese text, and only the Japanese text, was removed and replaced by English. The hard-core fans howled with rage! How dare they alter the precious artwork! So for subsequent DVDs, ADV went back to the traditional method of placing the sign translation next to the sign, which obscures just as much artwork, if not more. But this quieted the fans, because those translations "aren't really there".


Subtitles are superior because you get to hear the original voices.

I love this argument, because then I can ask the fan if he prefers to watch Tenchi Muyo In Love in English. After all, the English voices were recorded first. Then I get to watch the fun as he backtracks, usually by redefining "original". But whatever. I could care less about "original" voices. I'd rather hear the "best" voices, or rather, the voices that give me the most enjoyable overall experience.

I think the problem here is that some people equate animation dubs with live-action dubs. In the latter, hearing the original voices is very important, since those voices belong to the human actors you see on the screen. In contrast, animation cels have no voice of their own. (As has been said, "All animation is dubbed.") So saying one vocal track is superior to another simply because it was recorded first is a spurious argument.


The Japanese voice acting is always better than the English voice acting.

Ha. No, seriously. Ha.

Once upon a time, you could say this and know it to be true, not because you knew anything about the Japanese acting, but because the English dub acting was so absolutely amateurishly awful. These days, it's rare for a dub to not be at least passable, and several studios consistently produce very good dubs. So to continue to make this argument, you have to be able to describe just how good the Japanese acting is.

That's where the argument breaks down. If you don't speak Japanese, you cannot determine with any degree of accuracy whether the acting is any good. And please, spare me the hooie about how you can just tell by how well the actors emote. Any actor can emote. Emoting is one part of acting. There's timing, enunciation, and all kinds of nuances that go into delivering a good line, all of which is lost on you if you don't speak the language. Scott Frazier tells a funny story about how he learned one of his favorite anime (Dirty Pair) was horribly acted, once he became fluent in Japanese.

The sad truth of the matter is that most Japanese anime voice acting is of average quality. This is not to impugn the Japanese; it's merely Sturgeon's Law at work. For every Akira Kamiya and Megumi Hayashibara, there are scores of actors giving uninspired, cookie-cutter performances. "
ZetaStriker
Their site didn't have an e-mail address since thy're afraid of hate-mail overload. But! Since I was so bored I checked out their site, and learned they want to have an anime channel of their dubbed series mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif

Ok, now I'm curious. Why is this so bad? I'd love to hear your reasons so I can shoot you down with a bit of logic.
EpYoN
I dont like dubs because they ruin the art style. Seeing as though it's origionally Japanese, it loses some artistic meaning if English voices are used.
Guest
QUOTE(EpYoN @ Aug 30 2004, 06:55 AM)
I dont like dubs because they ruin the art style. Seeing as though it's origionally Japanese, it loses some artistic meaning if English voices are used.

Since you are so convinced and seem so knowledgeable in the artistic nature of the Japanese product. Care to explain and elaborate with details and proof of why it is artistic?
EpYoN
QUOTE(Guest @ Aug 30 2004, 07:14 AM)
QUOTE(EpYoN @ Aug 30 2004, 06:55 AM)
I dont like dubs because they ruin the art style. Seeing as though it's origionally Japanese, it loses some artistic meaning if English voices are used.

Since you are so convinced and seem so knowledgeable in the artistic nature of the Japanese product. Care to explain and elaborate with details and proof of why it is artistic?

Art in itself is a variety things. Anime is a form of art, as its made up of many different arts. Music, Writing, Imagery, acting(voice acting), and animation all make up it. To say that anime is not an art form is silly, in fact to say anything on tv other than the news(which even has some art to it) is not an art form is silly.

Why I dislike dubs is it takes away from the origional artform. It's no longer the work of the creator/staff that origional did it and it loses meaning and value. It would be like a modernday artist altering a Picasso painting so many more people could interperupt it better. It may still be art, but it loses meaning and value of the origional.
Guest
QUOTE(EpYoN @ Aug 30 2004, 07:41 AM)
QUOTE(Guest @ Aug 30 2004, 07:14 AM)
QUOTE(EpYoN @ Aug 30 2004, 06:55 AM)
I dont like dubs because they ruin the art style. Seeing as though it's origionally Japanese, it loses some artistic meaning if English voices are used.

Since you are so convinced and seem so knowledgeable in the artistic nature of the Japanese product. Care to explain and elaborate with details and proof of why it is artistic?

Art in itself is a variety things. Anime is a form of art, as its made up of many different arts. Music, Writing, Imagery, acting(voice acting), and animation all make up it. To say that anime is not an art form is silly, in fact to say anything on tv other than the news(which even has some art to it) is not an art form is silly.

Why I dislike dubs is it takes away from the origional artform. It's no longer the work of the creator/staff that origional did it and it loses meaning and value. It would be like a modernday artist altering a Picasso painting so many more people could interperupt it better. It may still be art, but it loses meaning and value of the origional.

But surely one who appreciates and understands the art would be able to tell others.

Because art is an expression of the artist's thoughts and desires. It is the marvelous way that the artist is able to clearly convey his voices and thoughts to the person viewing the masterpiece. A good artwork is one that can clearly impress upon the viewer what the impression/intention the artist had at that time if you want to go into metaphysical grounds. On the physical grounds, a good artwork can be more expressed in how realistic an image/vision can be created with materials hard to manipulate with.

An artist that cannot clearly express his intentions to his audience knows for sure that he didn't do the piece right. When his thoughts are pertaining to a certain bent or perception, only people privy and sympathetic to his nature would perceive his artwork. Hence his art is only meant for these sympathesizers. Those that understand his intentions would also gain another perception as well.

Which all means that for an artwork to be praised good, the appraiser would definitely know by what means the artist is expressing or has done physically to achieve such a state of achievement. Simply saying it is good is not the same as saying "what he was trying to show with these bold brush strokes was the counter-lying revolutionary spirit that is embodied by the background pastels. A hard vs soft issue so as to speak", in fact the former is insulting if the meaning of the artwork cannot be interpreted by the viewer.

Unless you are of course talking about the physical qualities of artwork, namely superior details in artwork, appropriate color usage, realistic feature, etc.

So what is so artistic about FMA? What meaning is there that an English voice cannot express as close to that of a Japanese voice? What ideas cannot be reflected in a similar manner?
EpYoN
QUOTE(Guest @ Aug 30 2004, 08:11 AM)
QUOTE(EpYoN @ Aug 30 2004, 07:41 AM)
QUOTE(Guest @ Aug 30 2004, 07:14 AM)
QUOTE(EpYoN @ Aug 30 2004, 06:55 AM)
I dont like dubs because they ruin the art style. Seeing as though it's origionally Japanese, it loses some artistic meaning if English voices are used.

Since you are so convinced and seem so knowledgeable in the artistic nature of the Japanese product. Care to explain and elaborate with details and proof of why it is artistic?

Art in itself is a variety things. Anime is a form of art, as its made up of many different arts. Music, Writing, Imagery, acting(voice acting), and animation all make up it. To say that anime is not an art form is silly, in fact to say anything on tv other than the news(which even has some art to it) is not an art form is silly.

Why I dislike dubs is it takes away from the origional artform. It's no longer the work of the creator/staff that origional did it and it loses meaning and value. It would be like a modernday artist altering a Picasso painting so many more people could interperupt it better. It may still be art, but it loses meaning and value of the origional.

But surely one who appreciates and understands the art would be able to tell others.

Because art is an expression of the artist's thoughts and desires. It is the marvelous way that the artist is able to clearly convey his voices and thoughts to the person viewing the masterpiece. A good artwork is one that can clearly impress upon the viewer what the impression/intention the artist had at that time if you want to go into metaphysical grounds. On the physical grounds, a good artwork can be more expressed in how realistic an image/vision can be created with materials hard to manipulate with.

An artist that cannot clearly express his intentions to his audience knows for sure that he didn't do the piece right. When his thoughts are pertaining to a certain bent or perception, only people privy and sympathetic to his nature would perceive his artwork. Hence his art is only meant for these sympathesizers. Those that understand his intentions would also gain another perception as well.

Which all means that for an artwork to be praised good, the appraiser would definitely know by what means the artist is expressing or has done physically to achieve such a state of achievement. Simply saying it is good is not the same as saying "what he was trying to show with these bold brush strokes was the counter-lying revolutionary spirit that is embodied by the background pastels. A hard vs soft issue so as to speak", in fact the former is insulting if the meaning of the artwork cannot be interpreted by the viewer.

Unless you are of course talking about the physical qualities of artwork, namely superior details in artwork, appropriate color usage, realistic feature, etc.

So what is so artistic about FMA? What meaning is there that an English voice cannot express as close to that of a Japanese voice? What ideas cannot be reflected in a similar manner?

Was that how FMA was meant to be viewed? No...or it would have been made that way, so it doesnt fit the artists meaning in creating it.
Guest
QUOTE(EpYoN @ Aug 30 2004, 08:15 AM)

Was that how FMA was meant to be viewed? No...or it would have been made that way, so it doesnt fit the artists meaning in creating it.

So what is it? What is so artistic about FMA? Surely they are trying to tell people something or make a very nicely drawn production. What is it that someone cannot take up what they are trying to say and say in another language?
EpYoN
I'll even add to that point. Have you ever read the Oddesey? Have you ever heard it in its origional greek? The meanign is still there in its english text, but you miss the majesty of it, seeing as its an epic poem and all the words are made to fit it just right. Same thing goes for Beowulf, or pretty much any text. There are things that can be done only with the Japanese language, and you will lose it by translating to English. I'm sorry, but even if you dont understand it, you've still got to have appreciation for how its meant to be.
Shiroi
Translation itself is never 100% accurate and contains the same meaning. The translation can be slightly edited to have the meaning fit better, but at the sacrifice of accuracy. That's not neccessarily a bad thing with dubs when dealing with Japanese proverbs and such. Subtitles can do that too, or at least have a footnote so the viewer will understand more easily.

Yet there are some translation holes big enough for a truck to fall into, such as Japanese honorifics. While some have English equivilents, the conotation is often lost. My point is that taking a minute to explain the meanings of "-san" and "-kun" would be a lot easier than to call the person "Mr." throughout the anime, or even manga. This is where dubs fail because they'd rather make it a 100% English translation.

Anime IS an art. A simple translation fluke here and there is forgivable as long as the meaning is not lost. There are other things about dubs that interfere with the artwork, namely the voice choices. I'm not talking about how well a voice actor performs; I'm talking about whether they fit the role or not.

If in the original, the actor fits the role perfectly, then people can't complain. There's the art. However, if that character's dub actor just doesn't work well, that may change the character's personality completely. Even a weird accent or dialect can throw off a character's personality, not just tone, and it's a matter of how well the actor understands the original character he/she is voicing, which can often lead back to the manga from which the anime was based. (If there is one.)

So while dubbing does have its good points, the quality and effort put into the dubbing process is what matters more. The reason people dislike dubing companies so much is because of past problems with censorship, story and plot changes, name changes, etc. But dubbing quality has improved, so it's all a matter of, again, how much a company puts into it.

I'd be happy with a great dub, but if it's going to be poor, I'd rather see the subbed version. For true fans, it's best to see both anyway. For those who can only see what's aired on cable, it should be the best quality it can be.

On a side note, removing an opening or ending theme hurts the artwork that is the anime itself. Kinda like selling a manga without a cover.

Both subs and dubs have good and bad points. It's all a matter of how good the dub was and how good the original was. We all have our preferences; neither is better than the other. But translations are never perfect because they're just translations. Some of us would go as far as learning Japanese to erase the boundary, but the rest can only be happy with the best translation available.

Let's please stop flaming and arguing about what's good and bad. If Funimation fails us completely, nothing can be done. And believe me, sending them hate mail is not the solution.
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