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Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > Fullmetal Alchemist Discussions > FMA Character Discussions
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hakai-kun
Okay, so the whole fanon/canon thing is overrated in general... but I want your honest opinions on Roy/Riza.
I didn't start this thread for contrevorsy/arguments. so please be nice no matter your opinions.

Personally I'm fine with Roy/Riza. It's not my favorite. I find them too similar in personality and more of a "sibling" relationship [like Winry/Ed] I happen to be one of the few that like Riza/Havoc. But then, I'm pretty open to almost any pairing... i.e: Ed/Riza, Elricest, Winry/Riza, Farman/Fury, etc. etc.
On this forums I actually find a lotta of homophobes and RoyAi fans. tongue.gif So I just wanted to know people's opinions....

Do you think RoyAi is overrated? or do you support them 100%?
Fullmetal Fangirl
...if you REALLY must know... *annoyed sigh* yes...I am actually obsessed, got it?

no offence but this thread you've made just annoys me for some reason....what the hell do people see in Havok/Hawkeye? Or ANBODY else....[some people are so stupid]

where are some other Royai fans to back me up!!!

*storms off annoyed and pissed*
xrninja
huh.gif no need to bite hakai's head off....


i'm also completely obsessed with the roiai pairing. a lot of people see them just as officer and subordinate, but i think their relationship is a subtle but deep one (this is also due to a lot of fandom influence), and i find it beautiful. i also usually support canon pairings, and what with the hints in the anime, manga, and merchandise, to me roiai is canon. i also love hawkeye as a character (she's my all-time favorite anime character) and roy as well. i just think that hawkeye and roy balance each other out so well, and that she's not just the overprotective blonde lady standing behind him with a clipboard. they don't really go far into their relationship (or any particular pairing, really) in the anime, but it does seem like hawkeye knows and understands a lot of roy's bitterness and intricacies, and i believe they're a perfect match. biggrin.gif

i support some other pairings too, like ed/winry, ling/lanfan, falman/sheska, and kimblee/greed...just not as much as i do roiai (i'm also growing less and less fond of ed/winry....partially because of the floods of badly-written, cheesy fluffy fanfiction for ed/winry that's springing up everywhere). i'm not a homophobe and i don't mind shounen-ai, i just don't find it appropriate for hagaren. i don't see ed and al's relationship as anything more than a close brotherly bond, roy's to ed's as a fatherfigure, and roy and hughes's as best friends. ed and hawkeye seems a little too oedipal to me, and i can't imagine it working out on hawkeye's end. roy and havoc seems a bit too much of a stretch for me, since they don't seem to be that close friends and they don't really interact much in the series (in the manga, though, it's a little more plausible). if i had to go for a shounen-ai pairing, i'd go for pre-gracia roy/hughes.

hawkeye and havoc, though, is a big peeve of mine....probably because i guess it's a possible het pairing for hawkeye, but i just don't see it working like roiai. havoc and hawkeye barely interact in both the series and manga, and it sometimes seems to me like the ed/roy fans throw them together as a pairing, since they see roy with ed, and so hawkeye can't be with roy....but wait, havoc's free, he knows hawkeye, let's pair them together! or something like that. like i said, i'm a canon pairing person and i don't see much canon basis for havoc/hawkeye. basically, it makes me squirm to see anyone paired up with hawkeye other than roy. ohmy.gif (although, hawkeye/winry doesn't bother me. huh.gif )

i can see why people would think it's overrated, though, since it's getting more popular (though it seems like there are a particularly large number of roiai fans on this site smile.gif) and it's one of those kind-of-obvious pairings. i think there's more to the pairing beneath the surface, though, that makes it worth obsessing over. smile.gif
hagane_no_tokage
O_o oh my... FMfangirl, don't get upset, other people are entitled to their opinions.

hakai-kun i would have to disagree that royai is overrated...on these forums especially. the majority of what i see here is edwin--particularly in the fanworks section--and that gets old after a while, espeically since most of the work there strikes me as terribly out of character (tobuchan, dear, you know that excludes you). so, in my opinion, it's the fanon EdWin that irritates the hell out of me.

i like [canon] royai because it's so subtle. their romance is very realistic to me, because while it's obvious they care a great deal about one another, office propriety and simple hard-earned respect between them keeps them from acting on it. so they have to find other ways of showing affection. they can't just go and get it on, there's a level of class and professionalism to them, not to mention the darker, more introverted sides of the personalities, that makes their romance, to me, much more three-dimensional than a crush between two 15-year-old osananajimi. i find that a lot of royai authors (while there are few of them to be had) seem to have a decent grasp of this subtlety, whereas most of the EdWin i come across is poorly done.

i'm not saying i don't like EdWin. or any other [canon] pairing for that matter. but when it leaves the canon atmosphere, unless there is a damn good reason for it (and AU fics annoy the hell out of me), i'm not interested. so, for example, all the homosexual couplings (perhaps excluding pre-series roy/hughes) are extremely unrealistic and therefore not enjoyable for me to read. not because i'm homophobic--not at all--but because it's just not reasonable. take roy/ed for example. W. T. F? not only is it unrealistic, it's downright ridiculous. ed HATES roy, with a passion, so the idea of them getting it on or even cuddling, like so many people write/draw, is absolutely assinine. not to mention that would make roy a pedophile. now, roy may be a lot of things...some of them unsavory, even...but he is NOT a pedophile, TYVM. i might even be able to support a well-written hawkeye/havoc, since there is a manner of...something...that could be believable between them. they're friends, coworkers...so if someone did it well, havoriza could be decent. same with al/winry.

so, in short, i think it's all the other pairings that are overrated. i went to a doujinshi store in ikebukuro? ALL roy/ed. i was like wtf? where's the uh...REAL stuff? the canon romances get overshadowed by that which the rabid fans want to see, which is absurd, not to mention a damn shame. i don't care how drunk they get, ed and roy are never going to be a couple, not even for ten minutes. neither are ed and al, because incest is just wrong. neither are havoc and roy (tho that is more believable than ed and roy), because it's quite obvious havoc likes women. same goes for roy. and although i can't exclude the variable that they're both bisexual, it seems highly unlikely. roy loves riza, and she loves him. if you read the manga this becomes very apparent. same with ed and winry, even if it's a slightly different situation. it's just canon fact, and no author or artist has the right to mess with that. don't toy with other people's characters so lightly.

i support royai 150%, and poo on the people who think they need to see other people.
hakai-kun
FMA_fangirl: well i didn't say i hate royai. I was just curious about people's opinions.

Hm... it seems to me that [fanon vs canon aside] it really just depends on how well it's written or lack thereof, right? I mean, even a fanfic of a canon pairing isn't "real" canon because it never "really" happened in the series, right? idk.

Oh, and hagane_no_tokage: I just wanted to say something about 150%..... If you take a glass and fill it with water the most water you can put into that glass is 100% filled, right? If you put anymore the glass will just overflow and the water will be wasted. tongue.gif just something I wanted to share... cool.gif
POTOPHREAK
It is the best thing in the whole world and seriously, I think the possiblity of it being official is really high. look at this poster it's so... great.

and oh yeah I love royai 150% to (it is surely overflowing all over) X) so if anyone posts anything unpleasant about royai here I am sure to shout.
Fullmetal Fangirl
yeah sorry, i was really mad when i came home and had to take it out on someone, sorry...um yeah,...

well im a Royai suported 200% beat that!

smexy poster lah!

sorry im listening to a "piss-ya-pants-laughing" song
its by some singapore with a funnt acent talknig about sars...

now i know why they say SING-A-POOR!!

but still, like abtou um somebody said it i forgot, i yeah

QUOTE
take roy/ed for example. W. T. F? not only is it unrealistic, it's downright ridiculous. ed HATES roy, with a passion, so the idea of them getting it on or even cuddling, like so many people write/draw


THANK YOU! somebody god dam AGREES! i mean like, hes suposed to be a "womanizer" please note the quoteation marks...yes, them.
and its so unrealistic...i mean, they THINK its gonna happen...the fans i mean...
Yaoi sucks balls, no offence to others sorry...

and about Hawkeye/Havok...how you said about "oh yeah! since Ed and Roy are taken what shall we do with Hawkeye? My! Havoks free! take him!"

i mean like....w. t. F!!!
seriously man, kinda like having your friends stealing your boyfriend/girlfriend and going "sorry mate, shes mine now! look, that chick over there's free! take her man!" and you'd probably be like "what? who the hells she?"
"who cares, mate?"

like, what the hell?

QUOTE
so if anyone posts anything unpleasant about royai here I am sure to shout.

so like, yeah basicly same with me, i hate it when there are sites that over flow with RoyEd, i mean, how DO people do that?!


ok, so i disliek ANYTHING that interfares with Royai...ok?

Sorry about the yells...i had a headache because my brain was turning to msuh...EXAMS NEXT WEEK! i havnt EVER done an exam! im 13!...oh sheesh, was i supposed to say that?!
darkangelslayer
I voted a tad, but I'm writing a Royai fanfic write now....I'm a hypocrite.
Chibi Viki
hahaha, people who know me already know what i voted.

since xrninja and tokage already pretty much summed up almost every royai fans opinion, i'm just going to point out a few things about other couples:

1. Bones totally changed Winry's personality. Had they kept her manga persona and Ed's growing "fondness" for her in the anime, i'm sure this couple would give royai a run for its money. I mean, towards the end of the series, Ed barely gave her the time of day. It was always Al which makes me wonder if Bones is endorsing EdxAl >_<;;

2. The truth is, it's the yaoi couples that are overrated. no offence to them but once you leave this site, you'll be swimming in yaoi and anti-het-couple fandom... even the most unsuitable characters are turning into couples... heck even siblings are turning into couples -- eew...

3. Even in lieu of slightly suggestive yaoi moments in the anime, Bones kept faithful to this couple meaning they're starting to endorse them as real and actual het couple -- which the anime totally lacks right now...

4. About HavocxHawkeye... the only thing I could think of as to why these 2 should be a couple is when Roy is out of the picture, or is onesided. Otherwise, I still don't see these 2 as a couple. they're just -- out of balance.

5. EdxRoy is just plainly disturbing... not only is Roy old enough to be Ed's DAD, it also suggests that Roy is -- a pedophile.

6. Royai is the only plausible couple in both anime and manga. I like EdxWin, but not in the anime which is a big minus points on their part since the popularity of the series virtually skyrocketted through the anime and most fans have yet to see the manga.

finally @POTOPHREAK --- WHERE DID YOU GET THAT POSTER! I WANNA WANNA!! happy.gif
Electrastar
I don't think it's overated.

In my opinion, it's the only "solid: relationship in the series. You know they have a deep connection and it's hinted many times that they have feelings for each other. In the anime or manga, Edward and Winry have gotten a bit more, well involved as of late, but it took a while to get there, they acted more like brother and sister half the time. And Roy and Riza aren't that simillar. Roy isn't as serious as Riza, that's where she completes him and gets him back on track.
POTOPHREAK
QUOTE(Chibi Viki @ May 19 2005, 08:20 AM)
hahaha, people who know me already know what i voted.

since xrninja and tokage already pretty much summed up almost every royai fans opinion, i'm just going to point out a few things about other couples:

1. Bones totally changed Winry's personality. Had they kept her manga persona and Ed's growing "fondness" for her in the anime, i'm sure this couple would give royai a run for its money. I mean, towards the end of the series, Ed barely gave her the time of day. It was always Al which makes me wonder if Bones is endorsing EdxAl >_<;;

2. The truth is, it's the yaoi couples that are overrated. no offence to them but once you leave this site, you'll be swimming in yaoi and anti-het-couple fandom... even the most unsuitable characters are turning into couples... heck even siblings are turning into couples -- eew...

3. Even in lieu of slightly suggestive yaoi moments in the anime, Bones kept faithful to this couple meaning they're starting to endorse them as real and actual het couple -- which the anime totally lacks right now...

4. About HavocxHawkeye... the only thing I could think of as to why these 2 should be a couple is when Roy is out of the picture, or is onesided. Otherwise, I still don't see these 2 as a couple. they're just -- out of balance.

5. EdxRoy is just plainly disturbing... not only is Roy old enough to be Ed's DAD, it also suggests that Roy is -- a pedophile.

6. Royai is the only plausible couple in both anime and manga. I like EdxWin, but not in the anime which is a big minus points on their part since the popularity of the series virtually skyrocketted through the anime and most fans have yet to see the manga.

finally @POTOPHREAK --- WHERE DID YOU GET THAT POSTER! I WANNA WANNA!! happy.gif
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got it from a Chinese fullmetal alchemist fan site forum... Chinese is my first language (explains my grammatical mistakes and spelling mistakes eh). The Chinese forums are really fast in translating manga so I often visit that place. That place is full of royai fans and edwin and I tell you, I have seen not a single yaoi fan there. I'll find the link... I love the poster. The glove. The gun. THEY MATCH so perfectly!!! The poster is "official" so maybe... maybe...

and I find EdAl really gross and disturbing. Come on, they are siblings, and they love each other as siblings.
NightMistress
I'm sure you know what my choice was too. Royai is completely wonderful. At first I started out being more for EdWin, but once I truly grasped the maturity and obvious subtlety between Roy and Riza, I just couldn't resist absolutely adoring this couple. They just can't be denied. Even in the end of the series, I couldn't deal with the thought of them not being together. He cannot live without her and vice versa. It's just so obvious to me. I support them here and on LJ.

My second fave pairing nevertheless would probably be HughesRoy. The vunerability there in the early part of the series could easily translate into something more. That's why those fanfics and doujinshi are just fine with me. It's something that's more believable than any other yaoi pairing. I see them together and it looks right (pre-Gracia of course). Seeing Roy with Ed, Havoc, or whoever just doesn't work for me at all. Hughes is the ONLY exception to Roy not being with Riza and he will always be the only one.

[spoiler]In the last episode, Roy and Hohenheim said the exact same thing about the world being imperfect. [/spoiler] After reading plenty of books in school, I look at that type of thing as symbolism. That's why Roy comes off more to me as a father figure than anything else. Maybe an annoying big brother but that's pretty much it. I think that Ed hated Roy in the beginning but towards the end I think he started to change once he realized that Roy wasn't some shallow, egotistical jackass.

EdWin in the manga is just awesome! I wish they got that kind of action in the anime, but still they hold no candle to Royai.
Glam
I may not act like it but i'm a total royai fan ^^;, and no I don't think it's overrated, but what I do think is overrated it yaoi, because no offence to anybody but I think it's just friggin sick, edxwin i can deal with also because to be it's sorta like royai, but not. i <3 royai 1000% ^^
Merc
Uh-oh, this thread will surely envoke the wrath of the Royai fanatics. Just looking at my signature should say enough about my stance on the subject. 'Nuff said. XD

~Merc
pirate yoshi
Being the canon-whore that I am, I strongly support RoyAi. Out of all my OTPs I have had, RoyAi has a relationship unlike any other. They don't need to tell how they feel about one another, because it seems they already know about each other feelings. They're very mature in their relationship, and that really fascinates me. Manga!RoyAi is what really fueled my obsession. I mean, they practically act like a married couple! Anime!RoyAi had to make me squint for it, but I knew it was there.

EdWin seemed boring to me. It was like the usual anime couple, and that's just not fun.

I've actually read a HavocAi fic, and it wasn't that bad. It almost seemed plausible for their relationship to work because they didn't butcher Roy's character. Hawkeye was just a tad OOC, but it didn't bother me much. Overall, the fic wasn't good enough to convert me to HavocAi. My devotion to RoyAi was just too strong. XD

I'm very anti-yaoi, so I'm not even gonna start on RoyEd. Who ever came up with that must've been smokin' SOMETHING.
hagane_no_tokage
QUOTE(hakai-kun @ May 19 2005, 03:32 AM)
Oh, and hagane_no_tokage: I just wanted to say something about 150%..... If you take a glass and fill it with water the most water you can put into that glass is 100% filled, right? If you put anymore the glass will just overflow and the water will be wasted. tongue.gif just something I wanted to share... cool.gif
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dry.gif oh bah. put the cup in a bowl. biggrin.gif
Fullmetal Fangirl
you guess said it, man...two thumbs up...

by the way, yes i am a super gay f4g, but what does "canon" mean...
silver bg
i voted just a tad
POTOPHREAK
QUOTE(Fullmetal Fangirl @ May 20 2005, 04:27 AM)
you guess said it, man...two thumbs up...

by the way, yes i am a super gay f4g, but what does "canon" mean...
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Maybe you can check this webbie out smile.gif: http://www.woodworksezine.com/2004/issue08/ffglossary.html
Fullmetal Fangirl
aaah, ok thanx


so its like, a sequel to the ending only....not...
Chibi Viki
ok guys, let's not start an anti-yaoi campaign here happy.gif;;

although some of us may feel strongly against yaoi, we must also respect those who think otherwise.

the truth is, i understand why people like EdRoy... both are the major players of the series, both kick ass, and both experienced life-changing trauma related to alchemy giving them something huge in common.

this is also partially bones' fault for altering their personalities since roy did have some "gay" moments with ed or hughes. stupid bones.

imagine roy, as a girl, being the same age as ed and riza out of the picture and you'll see a possible couple.

plus, the anime didn't give much personality to Riza... most of the time, she's standing still and not do anything interesting.

stupid bones.
Phyco girl
Hiromu Arakawa is a genius.

Bones just ticks me off dry.gif

That's why I like the manga better. There are SO many plotholes in the anime. They could've done a much better job which just get on my nerves.

I like the EdWin pairing but I also like Roiai so I just did null vote.

Yes, I know that this poll upsets Roiai fans but it's just other people's opinions. They'll think what they think.

I personally am NOT a fan of yaoi but nonetheless I'll respect the people who do like those pairings.

I really hate Bones. I mean the manga has much more Roiai and EdWin in it. It's also just, well, better.

So, that's all I have to say. I totally agree with Chibi Viki there. Thanks and see all you guys later happy.gif

-Phyco girl
Fullmetal Fangirl
QUOTE
stupid bones.


stupid bones....



Yes bones tick me off too, they focus on the story and thats it, like the characters have nothing else to do...*sigh* you dont get me? Dont worry i dont get myself sometimes...

Well, seeing what they did to the god dam series, lets see how the MOVIE goes *is scared now*

And yes, the manga may be a lot better, only they dont look the same, like the anime has its own style of animation and drawing style then Hiromu Arakawa.
Ok, you dont get me with this either, and no, i dont understand myself either.
But its like, the two different styles annoy me, i wish Hiromu Arakawa drew them the same as they did in the series...

anyway, at least the Mangas still going on...
lenita
the only real/hot/cool pairing that i've seen in the fma anime is roy&riza... but it's my opinion, althougth i'm seeing other animes but i've not seen yet another perfect couple like them

ROYAI is the best thing in the wooorlddddd biggrin.gif
Chibi Viki
QUOTE(Fullmetal Fangirl @ May 21 2005, 11:57 PM)
And yes, the manga may be a lot better, only they dont look the same, like the anime has its own style of animation and drawing style then Hiromu Arakawa.
Ok, you dont get me with this either, and no, i dont understand myself either.
But its like, the two different styles annoy me, i wish Hiromu Arakawa drew them the same as they did in the series...

anyway, at least the Mangas still going on...
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first of all, the manga came first. the anime came later. this is Bones' version of hiromu arakawa's designs.... just like the story. so, that means that arakawa-sensei's drawings are the original versions and not the anime's.
POTOPHREAK
Yeah, stupid bones.
A lot of great moments of the manga was left out by BONES... *sigh* About the movie, I really have high expectations. They sorta hinted about *sth* happened in these 2 years, but I think it would be really painful for Roy becoming a Private and Riza staying in Central. Ouch.

Though in Chapter 51, Riza is really prettily drawn... And Roy looks really cool.
lolz what am I talking?
ling*
Why haven't I notice this thread before? ph34r.gif

As a super royai fangirl, I just want to say that I really DO LOVE royai! ! !

I really want to see the manga as you guys KEEP ON telling me that
the manga 's WAY better than the anime.
I'll be disappointed if there's nothing much about Roy and Riza in the movie sleep.gif

What would you choose if you're going to Japan but the date crashed with your Japanese lessons? I mean, seeing the movie is a very BIG issue but I don't really want to miss any of the lessons ohmy.gif
The summer course's up to 13/8. Will the movie be still shown in theatres after 13/8?
I don't want to wait until NEXT year to see it at my place unsure.gif
If I get a pass at the end of course admission exam then I could continue to learn japanese.
But if I fail...........byebye then...........AH! What to do?*puzzled*
Penguin
... and people talk about how annoying yaoi, yuri, and what-have-you fans are. I see a lot of rantings on het couples around here, that it is almost laughable/sickening. I'm sorry, but Royai and EdWin are overrated on these forums. ( But calm down. I have nothing against any of you. )

I've never seen such abundancy of these fans before, and in so many ways, it makes me want to leave because it is also full of bashing of just about every other couple. I mean, I am already on the Fullmetal Alchemist group on LiveJournal, and personally, I find that place a lot calmer than here.

Now, before anyone bashes, I like Royai, EdWin and all the other canon couples; but I hate how you all act like it's OMGCANONTHEYAREINLOVE. Because, well, it hasn't happened yet. Once they snog on a manga chapter, I'll content. XD

And let's not get on the RoyEd topic, okay? The excessive manner around this thread of anti-yaoi and everything really gives this forum a bad image.

And who cares if someone pairs them up? I'm not complaining about who you guys want to see together.

In fact, WHY do you like seeing Roy and Hawkeye together? And if you say because 'it's obvious' and everything, that's not stating why YOU like it. Really, I bet you would find your reasons not all that different from why a yaoi fan likes seeing two males together. smile.gif
angieness
I'm usually not into pairings for any series but the canon pairings in FMA to me make a lot of sense. I support Royai all the way!

EdxAl-haha probably the only fantasy pairing that to me makes any sense because these two only think about each other. I don't support it at all since it's all brotherly love but I can understand where the idea came from

EdxRoy-I'll never understand 99% of yaoi couplings, people just like throwing characters that totally hate each other or have nothing to do with each other for kicks. In all honesty the two don't hate each other, they're just rivals, but c'mon I wish people would start coming up with yaoi couplings that made sense. NarutoxSasuke, GokuxVegeta(ew), etc you all don't make any sense at all! ^^; I'm not at all homophobic, afterall a lot of my closest friends are gay so that's not my reasoning for disliking 99% of yaoi pairings

EdxWinry-I do support this pairing although as stated above, in the anime world Ed sort of doesn't give Winry the time of day. The manga backs it up way more than the anime

RizaxHavoc-the only way these two bond is by having the same color hair. That's about it. They really don't interract much at all. I imagine it would make as much sense as pairing Riza with any of the military guys

I'm not trying to put anyone down for liking certain pairings, this is just how I feel altogether. I prefer having more solid evidence before I support a pairing. What can I say? I'm very picky because it's very rare I care about any sort of pairings since I've never really cared for most of them in any anime. In my opinion RoyEd is the most overrated of them all simply because there's no evidence and the fact that every single messageboard, livejournal, fanart site, etc. I've been to the RoyEd far outnumbered the Royai. If you line up the evidence between all the pairings EdWinry and RoyRiza would be at the top of the list of most realistic pairings. (plus if you've seen the last episode of FMA there's no way you can deny Royai)
Fullmetal Fangirl
Its about time someone pointed all them things out!

yeah i really HATE HavocAi it pisses me off...WAY off...

same with RoyEd, completely uncalled for!
POTOPHREAK
About why I like Royai so much, in reply to Penguin's post:
1. Obvious reason that it is so obvious, especially in the last episode of the anime.
2. I am really moved by Riza' s protection and loyalty to Roy. I am a girl, and that is part of the reason-- Riza did so many great things for Roy, made so many sacrfices.
And also Roy's trust of her. I mean, it isn't hard to see (in the manga I mean) how Hawkeye is treated differently from the other military people. Roy absolutely trusts in her, and she's the first person he asked to follow him to central. Also, when he sees Riza with Barry the Chopper, Roy goes really mad. And of course, in Chapter 38 and Chapter 39. To conclude, Riza and Roy have some connection that is deeper than a lot of anime pairings. Other anime pairings may kiss, hug, go out dating and so on, but I believe that RoyAi is much deeper than that.
3. I must agree that there are some totally idiotic het pairings, like for instance, ArmStrongAi (that is retarded). As for HavocAi, goodness, Havoc treating her as a superior.
4. They are adults. Not immature 15-16 yrs old young girl young boy crush.

EDIT: *takes back the "scared" part cos it's stupid...* sry

5. They look great together. Guns and flame. Perfect. biggrin.gif

*pokes siggy*

Ah well, those who don't like Royai may think that I am too obsessed, but nothing can stop me from loving RoyAi, supporting it and defending it from haters/dislikers.
angieness
heh I'll admit HavocxRiza is very cute but there's no substance to support it
Electrastar
QUOTE(angieness @ Jun 2 2005, 03:51 PM)
heh I'll admit HavocxRiza is very cute but there's no substance to support it
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Maybe I missed something, but I can't recall a time when Havoc was affraid of Hawkeye...And as much as I love Roy and Riza together, I think Havoc and Riza makes a lot of sense....I mean, after Hawkeye hersefl and Hughes, Havoc seems to have been the third person that stuck with the longest, so a romance behind the scene might be true.
Elderberry
I support Royai. I'm not a very active supporter, since I'm also happen to be a huge fan of Ed/Winry, but I do support them. happy.gif
Reika
Hello! I think that my avatar says everything XD but well... I wanted to say what I think about royai and other couples:

Do you... seriously need to read the words "I love you" from one to another to know two poeple are in love??? Because if that's the case there wouldn't be any Roy/Ed etc, but when it comes to royai or Ed/winry everybody says "when did they say they love each other?" and that makes me go to a puzzled "WTF" state XDD you don't need to say "I love you" to actually say that XD.

Evidences are ALL OVER the anime, merchandising, videogames and more from the manga! All cames from the manga, so the manga has the last word, sorry guys ^^ , and not only hints, but real proves. Come on, do you really think that Hawkeye would go out with Havoc when... [spoiler]she gave up on her own life when she thought roy had died?[/spoiler] And I think that Havoc is a little bit... scared of hawkeye, though I don't know that for sure XD.

And do you really think that Roy would go out with a guy that is 13 years YOUNGER and when he is always going out with girls??? I seriously doubt he is gay! XD and besides, Roy... [spoiler] almost killed himself when he went with a terrible wound on his ribs to where Hawkeye was to kill Lust[/spoiler] ...and I think that the last episode is more than an evidence, his entire facial expression and seriousness on his eyes is different from what he uses with other girls.

I don't like uncannon pairings, but I don't hate them either, what if someone wants to believe or finds exciting that Ed and Roy or Havoc and Riza are in love? What I hate is the fact that most of those alternate couple fans are completely against the cannon couples and even hate us! O.o I don't say all of them, but many of them yes. You are in your right to like a couple, but don't impose your likes over what's evident. Yesterday a friend of mine recieved this review from a Roy/Ed lover in her royai fanfic: "Royed and Royal rules, u die!" etc. Do you find that normal???? First of all, if you don't like royai... DON'T READ ROYAI STUFF! >.< that kind of poeple really piss me off.

Why I like Royai:

1)I think it's a relationship more deep than "oooooooh I love her/him~, he/she is my whole~" all over the series and when they confese it "the end" XD, I find it more real than many other relationships.
2)I find interesting the fact that roy is a playboy that goes out with everywomen and Riza seems that she hasn't have any relationship in her life XDD though I might be wrong, but I like to think that way XD
3)Both being adults makes the relationship more interesting
4)In the manga it seems as if they were married XD, they act like a real married couple
5)I don't think there's anyone that understands them better, they really know each other and seem to meant for each other. They are confortable with each other and they are almost everytime together.
6)I love riza's devotion for him and they are worried about each other almost all the time ^0^ well, in dangerous situations ^^
And finally:
7)They look really good together! ^0^

mmm... I think that's all I wanted to add to this post ^^
Wandering Namekian
I really like this (for lack of a better term) "type" of ship. I don't really know how to explain it, I guess it could be called the "protector" ship or something of that nature; there are a lot of aspects to it. For all of you who support the Ling/Ran Fan ship (as I do) the two ships are very similar (Ling and Ran Fan are just younger). Roy and Ling have very similar goals and Ran Fan and Riza are basically doing the same thing, and are basically in the same situation (Riza is Roy's subordinate and Ran Fan is Ling's servant). I haven't really seen this kind of relationship anywhere else in anything I've read/seen, but I like it a lot. There are times when it seems that Ling and Ran Fan are just younger versions of Riza and Roy from another country, well, kind of.
Fullmetal Fangirl
I agree with you and Reika, thank you! and I like Ling/Lan Fan too, hurray! they so go with each other!
Mistress of Darkness
*grins manically* I'm just going to completely rock this boat by climbing to the top of the forum building and shouting:

I LOVE BOTH ROYAI AND ROY x ED!!!!!! WOOOOHOOO!!!!!!

*snickers insanely because it's the truth*

Why I love Royai: I hate to sound like a broken record, but it's so obvious. Just to let you know, I've never read the Manga (I want to!), but even in the anime I could just tell. Potofreak (top of page 3) described Royai very well, even without me reading the spoilers (because I'm going by CN's airings and I'm not a big fan of spoilers at.all.)

Why I love Ed x Roy: First of all, I'd like to commend Penguin for sticking up for what they believe in; most people here are royai freaks, and it's just very difficult to stand up and go against the crowd - you've got a lot of courage. ^^

Okay, so anyway, why I like Roy & Ed: I get the feeling that most people here just see their little spats as evidence that it can't happen, but to me, and with the fanfics I see *ON FF.N,* it's always one of the strongest anchoring points for their relationship - the fact that they argue. Someone said that Roy and Riza are practically married in the manga (I'll take their word for it); to fan writers, Roy and Ed act like an old married couple with all the fighting they do.

I know that because they have their little spats, some of you are also trying to use the argument that they "TOTALLY HATE EACH OTHER OMG!!!!" but in fact, they don't. Even I, who is up to like... Episode 26, can tell that Roy is not a heartless bastard and he really cares about Edward. Here's a direct quote from Episode 25, dubbed version (I spent 15 minutes sitting in my room rewinding the tape again and again to get the thing exact - right down to assumed punctuation):

Roy Mustang: “Why didn’t he tell me, Lieutenant? Ed and Al in danger. Lab 5. Maybe I could have done something to help.”

Riza Hawkeye: “Maybe because he knew you’d try, sir.”

Roy Mustang: “What’s that mean?”

Riza Hawkeye: “When those two boys are in harm’s way, sir, well, sometimes you decisions aren’t exactly rational.


SEE?!?! Roy cares about Edward and Alphonse!

Ah, I see the next challenge coming: "WHY AREN'T THERE A LOT OF ROY x AL FIC THEN, HUH?!? YOU PEOPLE JUST WANT TO STICK THE MAIN CHARACTERS TOGETHER!!!!"

Erm... no. Roy x Al just doesn't make sense because Al isn't the one that has to directly report to Mustang, isn't the one who has to take orders from Mustang, and from what I've seen in the Anime, doesn't have nearly as much contact with him as Ed does. Al is always sitting out in the hallway while Ed is screaming about being short in Mustang's office. How the heck can you make a relationship off that? It's as bad as Strongarm & Riza. Because Ed is the main character in the frickin' anime, and he is the one with the state alchemist pocket watch, and he is the one who has to listen to Mustang, it makes more sense that he could build a relationship with Roy.

The last thing I'd like to point out is that in the Roy x Ed fics I've seen, Ed is *NOT* fifteen! I don't even know how you can think that a self-respecting author would write Roy x Ed that young, or even younger. The youngest I've seen Ed in a Roy x Ed relationship is seventeen, and the author was under the impression that Roy was somewhere in his twenties. And it wasn't like Ed just walked up to Mustang and said, "Hey! Let's be boyfriends!" either. The author developed Ed's character a LOT and kept him in character, to get to the yaoi (well she hasn't finished it; it's shounen-ai right now).

I would never read a Roy x Ed fanfic where Ed is fifteen, twelve, etc. It's almost as bas as elricest (which I'm getting to in a minute). I've never come across a Roy x Ed story with him at that age, which says something for the writers that I've read; they know better than that.


A couple royai fans have mentioned this, and I'd like to say the same thing: I support couples that, in my opinion, *work.* Royai works. I just told you reasons why Roy x Ed works.

Havoc & Riza? Meh. Havoc's not even that much of a main character. Anyone who puts Riza with Havoc for the sake of a Roy x Ed relationship prolly doesn't have a good plot/story to begin with.

Ed x Envy: Well, if Roy and Ed banter, why are they a couple and not Envy x Ed? Roy actually cares about Ed; that's the thing. ^_~ I will never understand Ed x Envy. It makes no sense! And for goodness sakes, he's a sin who's in cahoots with someone who's manipulating the poor boy, for cryin' out loud! *_* (Like I said, I've never seen the end of the series; if that had any reason to do with why it works, forgive me. I haven't seen it and I DON'T WANT TO BE TOLD WHAT HAPPENS! *waves arms frantically*)

Elricest: NO NO NO NO NO!!!! *flips out* NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!! I will NEVER, EVERRRRRRRRR read this couple because it's wrong. Plain and simple. Incest is bad, children. It's a morality thing.

Al x Winry: If you're going by the anime, where Ed totally snubs Winry, this makes perfect sense, and that's the context I've seen it in; she cares about both of them very much, but Ed pushes her aside while Al reciprocates her feelings and cares a lot about her. It works!

Roy x Hughes: I've actually never read a fic with this paring, but it could work, if done right. I mean, they are best friends and all, so the relationship has potential to develop into something else.


I'm someone who will consider whether the relationship will *work,* rather than if it's homo or het. And I have plenty of non-hagaren examples, but I don't know if it's pointless or not to post them since obviously not everyone has seen every anime.

In this thread, I'm seeing a lot of incredibly insane royai fans who won't even consider Roy x Ed. And In other places I get the feeling that if you're not an obsessive Roy x Ed fan you don't deserve to be recognize. Both sides represent the extremes, and it's a shame it has to be that way.

I've seen maybe two Royai fans (because I've seen only one Roy x Ed fan who didn't express their opinion on couples in general) in this thread who walk in the middle - and I'm sure you know who you are because you've said it directly. The rest of you are so blinded by your obsession you fail to see anything else - just like the Roy x Ed fans I've told you about - and like I said, it's shame it has to be that way, where the fanworld has boiled down to having Hawkeye and Edward competing for Roy's affection in fanfiction.

I have an awesome one shot fanfic example of Royai's subtlety and deepness. I also have a very well done Roy x Ed (with some Havoc x Fuery, btw) chaptered fic (incomplete but she definitely plans on finishing it), and another Roy x Ed fic with Al x Winry that is a lot darker, very mature, but still done in excellent taste and with excellently done writing. I'm afraid to post any of the links here for fear some of you will totally loose your senses for about five seconds and flame the authors. If you want to get to know the other side of the story (i.e. If you're a royai fan and want to see how roy x ed fans think the way they do, or vice versa), these are the fics I would recommend. You can PM me any time to get the fanfiction.net URLs - I don't bite, I swear! happy.gif
NightMistress
Ah so I see there's a fellow mistress of...non-bright things laugh.gif . Welcome tongue.gif !

I just caught ep 25 on CN (always a very hard ep for me). That statement by Hawkeye shows that he cares for both Ed and Al, but not in the "I love you and want a relationship with you" kind of way for either of them (at least I didn't interpret it that way). Roy can be a hardass, but I've always thought that Roy took care of them in his own special way. He seems like more of a brother/father figure than anything else. He is kind of the main authority figure that they have to go on. Having seen what those kids went through (I'm thinking about his first encounter with them as 10-11 year olds who had just went through this traumatic experience), it's hard to not want to be there for them as they find their own way. He just had to take on a more formal role for them because of the circumstances and deal with them in an unorthadox manner.

If EdAl weren't related, I'd be a big fan. Ed loves Al more than anyone in this world and vice versa. They would die for each other without a second thought. You would have to negate the fact that it's platonic though. You'd have to see it as something else, which RoyEd fans practically do with Roy and Ed's relationship. The creators did not make this show to put them together or make it a possibility, and Arakawa (the manga creator) even LESS so. I love HughesRoy (it's more natural than I have found any yaoi pairing in this show) but I realize that it's the same for them too. It's pretty much the dreams of the fangirls. When fans come in and change a character's sexuality and throw together whoever they want to their hearts content (this includes yuri too), it makes them OOC and there's really no way around it no matter how much you think it can work. Actually, there is a potential one-sided yaoi possibility in the show, but I'll let you see that for yourself when you finish the series. I missed it the first time, but caught it later thanks to Omakase (a mod here) telling me to watch the ep again. I need to read some fanfics to see how I'd feel about that pairing though. I already don't mind the idea.

You may or may not be reading a tad too much into AlWin from the anime, but once again, I'll let you catch the rest of it. It's harder than I thought to talk to someone that hasn't read the manga, finished the series or knows about the movie. It's a lot more information. You've got catching up to do, but I promise it'll be fun wink.gif .

The RoyEd fanworks I have seen have Ed as a girl (or looking like one), or Ed looking like his young 15 year old self. I did JUST recently catch an art with a mature Ed (but can't tell you where it's from since it could potentially spoil some stuff) and it FINALLY clicked for me. It was hard NOT to like it. So long as Ed's an adult, it's much better for me (eventhough HughesRoy always will seem more natural and fitting, where yaoi possibilities are concerned).

As another fan that likes Roy with two people (not simultaneously), I can understand the frustration. It's not as easy to come across people that support both of your favorite pairings like you do (though I have suprisingly found a few people like me which makes me very happy). I suppose it's not too bad for me because I will always choose Royai above anything else (since I traditionally tend to go for more canon-like possibilities), but it's still nice to find fans that love and support things that you hold near and dear.
Automne
Great arguments! Mistress Of Darkness! You described very well the possibilities of RoyXEd! biggrin.gif I, myself, am a yaoi fan and I was, at first, a fan of RoyXEd and then I saw Riza (And you could say I saw the "light" biggrin.gif ) and I became a fan of Royai! They're such a great pairing! Riza is a strong beautiful character and Roy just NEEDS a girl like this to support him! This is not the so classic pairing: "best friends that fall in love" like the EdWin pairing! But even if now I am a fan of Royai I can't tell that I do not like RoyXEd!

QUOTE
Okay, so anyway, why I like Roy & Ed: I get the feeling that most people here just see their little spats as evidence that it can't happen, but to me, and with the fanfics I see *ON FF.N,* it's always one of the strongest anchoring points for their relationship - the fact that they argue. Someone said that Roy and Riza are practically married in the manga (I'll take their word for it); to fan writers, Roy and Ed act like an old married couple with all the fighting they do.

I know that because they have their little spats, some of you are also trying to use the argument that they "TOTALLY HATE EACH OTHER OMG!!!!" but in fact, they don't. Even I, who is up to like... Episode 26, can tell that Roy is not a heartless bastard and he really cares about Edward. Here's a direct quote from Episode 25, dubbed version (I spent 15 minutes sitting in my room rewinding the tape again and again to get the thing exact - right down to assumed punctuation):


They totally do NOT hate each other for sure! And I should watch this episode! Roy certainly does care for the brothers maybe not in "this" way but he does care for them! Certainly because he met them in this terrible moment of their life and because he knows how great alchemists they are! Well, I don't know but he does care for them!

QUOTE
Ed x Envy: Well, if Roy and Ed banter, why are they a couple and not Envy x Ed? Roy actually cares about Ed; that's the thing. ^_~ I will never understand Ed x Envy. It makes no sense! And for goodness sakes, he's a sin who's in cahoots with someone who's manipulating the poor boy, for cryin' out loud! *_* (Like I said, I've never seen the end of the series; if that had any reason to do with why it works, forgive me. I haven't seen it and I DON'T WANT TO BE TOLD WHAT HAPPENS! *waves arms frantically*)


Well for EdXEnvy it does make sense: Certainly not the all "forbidden love" thing! I just can't picture Envy saying to Ed "I love you! I wanna marry you" laugh.gif Actually Envy hates Ed so much and well I think that the NCS fics make sense actually! I can perfectly see Envy wanting to rape Ed!
Mistress of Darkness
NightMistress - ^^ Similar names rock. Thank you for your comments; I'm glad I found someone else who likes Roy x Ed.

I see what you mean by the dialogue in Episode 25; I agree that it doesn't scream "ROYED!!!" or anything. It shows that Roy cares about Ed. In the fan realm, they simply take that further, and create a relationship out of it; that's what I meant. ^^;

I have seen a *lot* of fanart with Ed looking very girly, and for some reason, I don't like them at all (no offense meant if someone here draws that way). Even though Ed can act childish, I do still see him as very stubborn and masculine. I can see how that would be disturbing to you and others.

About Win x Al: Eheh. I guess I'll have to see the series then. ^^;;; *must wait patiently*

I'm have to say that I, too, tend to stick closer to cannon pairings (Royai), just for the sheer fact that, well, they're cannon. *giggles* But yeah, I do like Roy x Ed, too.


SinLuxuria: Thanks for the positive comments. I appreciate them. ^^;

Yeah, I admit that episode 25 shows that Roy cares about Ed, just not in *that* way. It was really an example of the fact that he does care, and isn't a cold hearted jerk. The fans just take his er... caringness of Ed and go a step further with it.

Envy x Ed - eheh. I still just can't picture it. I'm sorry. @_@ *falls over* I guess it's just personal preference or something. Sorry!


Thank you both, to NightMistress and SinLuxuria for your comments. I'm extremely appreciative of them, as well as grateful that you didn't breathe fire on me. ^^
Kaiko
I like RoyxRiza! Though it's not exactly shown XDD
Omakase Shimasu
A bit OT here, but since it's a popular topic among the masses... (I always hate to be left out. tongue.gif)

I guess I'm one of the few people who don't care much for proof when supporting a couple. Sure, it's always nice to see your characters share more than a couple of seconds of screen-time, but to me it's not a requirement to either ditch or love a couple to death. Sometimes, my reason behind chosing a pairing lies within the challenge and mystery behind it. 'What if's' are a true delight to me. biggrin.gif

In any case. While I like other pairings, I don't see anything particularly wrong with the Riza/Roy pairing. It just doesn't do anything for me. Maybe it's because the mystery behind the paring has already been uncovered, or maybe it's partly because Riza rubs me the wrong way for some reason... Definitely a bit of both now that I think about it. biggrin.gif;; As for overrated/redundancy... yes, but aren't all mainstream pairings? It's all been done to death - originality's just hard to find these days.

Still, I can see why people would go for that particular pairing, the charm this couple possesses. But again, it's not my cup of tea. Happy days to the ones who do. smile.gif

QUOTE(Reika @ Jun 11 2005, 06:25 PM)
What I hate is the fact that most of those alternate couple fans are completely against the cannon couples and even hate us! O.o I don't say all of them, but many of them yes. You are in your right to like a couple, but don't impose your likes over what's evident. Yesterday a friend of mine recieved this review from a Roy/Ed lover in her royai fanfic: "Royed and Royal rules, u die!" etc. Do you find that normal????

Of course, not to start a war here, but the same can be said for all sorts of fans - all shapes and sizes. For example, I'm a big fan of the Ma-kun/Taki couple from Gravitation and have posted a couple of fanfiction centered around this pairing on the Internet. Four of the reviews I acquiered consisted of this one sentence:

QUOTE
TAKI IS A F&*$ING BASTARD! HE F&*$ING <censored for the young ones> SHU-CHAN! HE SHOULD BURN IN HELL!

At first I was amazed at the use of correct grammar since it was the first time I encountered a flame not riddled through with typos. But I digress.

Not the greatest of examples, but I regretfully deleted all anti-yaoi/unconventional pairing flames before I had the sense to copy and paste them in my Hall of Flames document.


@NightMistress: You mentioned me~ biggrin.gif;; I have to admit, I was a bit puzzled over that bit about the potential shonen-ai couple there, but eventually I caught on. I feel so ashamed.
NightMistress
QUOTE(Omakase Shimasu @ Jul 9 2005, 08:58 PM)
@NightMistress: You mentioned me~ biggrin.gif;; I have to admit, I was a bit puzzled over that bit about the potential shonen-ai couple there, but eventually I caught on. I feel so ashamed.
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*GASP* ohmy.gif You should be tongue.gif! Still though, better to catch on later than never laugh.gif
Omakase Shimasu
QUOTE(NightMistress @ Jul 10 2005, 01:07 AM)
QUOTE(Omakase Shimasu @ Jul 9 2005, 08:58 PM)

@NightMistress: You mentioned me~ biggrin.gif;; I have to admit, I was a bit puzzled over that bit about the potential shonen-ai couple there, but eventually I caught on. I feel so ashamed.
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*GASP* ohmy.gif You should be tongue.gif! Still though, better to catch on later than never laugh.gif
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Yes, I'm awful - I'm not deserving of the "King of Shonen-ai" title at all. Hmm, I guess that's why it's missing in my signature right now... Oops. biggrin.gif;;

laugh.gif Later than never, indeed. I blame it on the fact I haven't been able to overcome my writer's block enough to resume my story featuring that particular couple. Very annoying.
Satsuka
I Royai is NOT overrated. It's the best thing in the world.


Reasons why I love Royai-because I can tell that Roy and Riza really do care for eachother and they're willing to protect eachother (especially in the manga).
Aurora-Corrine
I resent the implicaition that Royai fans are homophobes... I'm a rabid Royai fan {My OTP to end OTPs!}, but I'm also a closet fan of Roy/Hughes, Roy/Fuery, and Ed-o/Jean.

Royai isn't overrated. In fact, in my experiance, I've found way more fans of Ed/Roy {which doesn't make sense to me. Ed's a minor, and all they do is argue... Some would say sexual tension, I say sibling rivalry type thing. I just don't get Roy/Ed. Ed-o/Jean, on the other hand... Ah, but I'm getting off topic}. I think Royai has a solid fan base, but nothing compared to the Yaoi fangirls/fanboys.

I think that Royai is actually the most likely of relationships in FullMetal Alchemist. You just don't have that kind of devotion without love. Some would argue it's platonic love, but... C'mon. Roy is involved. Nothing is platonic with him around... And there's instinces in both the manga and the anime that support this couple. In the anime, when Roy and Riza are first transfered to Eastern headquarters, Roy wonders, aloud, how pretty the women out East are. Riza gets a look of total disgust on her face and quickly changes topics. Also, when *Epidoe 25/Manga ch. 15 spoiler* Hughes dies, Riza gladly tells Roy that it's raining, to help him cope with his grief. And then when they're in his office, afterwards, Roy says 'I'm going to the top. Are you coming with me?' To which Riza answers in a very 'I'm angry that you even had to ask' voice 'you know the answer to that', or something to that effect. *End Spoiler*

There are more incidents in the manga that support this couple as well. In one scene, after a fierce battle, Riza believes Roy to be dead, and begins to cry. Later on you find out he's not dead, and she yells at him for showing up and putting himself in danger. Even later on, there's a brief scene in which Roy tells her that he's glad she's still alive. Obviously this could be taken that they're jsut good friends, but there's just an underlying tenderness to it all that makes you think they're a couple.

/rant
NightMistress
QUOTE(Aurora-Corrine @ Jul 23 2005, 11:59 AM)
I resent the implicaition that Royai fans are homophobes... I'm a rabid Royai fan {My OTP to end OTPs!}, but I'm also a closet fan of Roy/Hughes
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Same here except there's nothing closet about my love for HughesRoy ph34r.gif cool.gif I agree with you on everything else in your post also.
Aurora-Corrine
QUOTE(NightMistress @ Jul 23 2005, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE(Aurora-Corrine @ Jul 23 2005, 11:59 AM)
I resent the implicaition that Royai fans are homophobes... I'm a rabid Royai fan {My OTP to end OTPs!}, but I'm also a closet fan of Roy/Hughes
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Same here except there's nothing closet about my love for HughesRoy ph34r.gif cool.gif I agree with you on everything else in your post also.
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Thanks! ^^ I'm not particularly anti Ed-o/Roy, I just don't see it as a probable couple. They rarely see each other, and when they do, they're fighting. That's no basis for a relationship.

Now, Roy/Hughes... There's years of friendship and shared secrets there, just as with Roy and Riza.

Royai forever! ^^
NightMistress
QUOTE(Aurora-Corrine @ Jul 23 2005, 03:45 PM)
QUOTE(NightMistress @ Jul 23 2005, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE(Aurora-Corrine @ Jul 23 2005, 11:59 AM)
I resent the implicaition that Royai fans are homophobes... I'm a rabid Royai fan {My OTP to end OTPs!}, but I'm also a closet fan of Roy/Hughes
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Same here except there's nothing closet about my love for HughesRoy ph34r.gif cool.gif I agree with you on everything else in your post also.
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Thanks! ^^ I'm not particularly anti Ed-o/Roy, I just don't see it as a probable couple. They rarely see each other, and when they do, they're fighting. That's no basis for a relationship.

Now, Roy/Hughes... There's years of friendship and shared secrets there, just as with Roy and Riza.

Royai forever! ^^
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You and me see eye to eye for sure! I do think every now and again when Ed isn't looking like a girl and/or a minor, it can be hott, but the times that I come across such things are so rare that I can't get into it as much as I'd like. On top of the fact that I don't see their relationship going that way at all.

I stated before myself that during the war, if Hughes had been Riza, we'd be painting Royai all over it. Hughes took care of Roy when he was really vulnerable. He saved his life before Riza did, but most don't really think about it that way.

The fanfics I read make them "fit" as a couple. And the fanarts do them even more justice.
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