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Raven
Iv'e noticed that Wicca and Paganism are becoming increasingly popular, and was wondering how you lot fealt on the subject.
heavensangel
i think it is a neat subject laugh.gif
Raven
Yes, well, I was rather hoping for a deep, philisophical conversation. smile.gif
Carnal Malefactor
I think it's pretty silly. My ex girlfriend was into it... said she could put curses on people... I never saw any results.
love_me_destroyer
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Apr 28 2005, 08:00 AM)
My ex girlfriend was into it... said she could put curses on people... .
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God, those people are so annoying. I've had rougly three goth kids put a "curse" on me. But, alas. I'm not yet a frog, goat, or pig.
Zarpia
I wish it was real, so i could corse some people....
DarkWater Alchemist
I don't believe in things like curses, magic, predicting future, summoning spirits... but I sort of like it anyway. THe thing is I'll only believe things when I see them, or for alternative medicine - to witness that it works (saying that it doesn't work because I don't believe it does is a bad excuse - that would mean my illness is fake too, of course)

But, we love fantasy and all that floats around it. Pagan folk music can be really good. Omnia and Faun, anyone? ^^ Sooo.
Yamato145
i think wiccan beliefs are fun in stories and stuff but when some real person tells me that there the wicked witch of the effing west then i relocate them to the nearest wildlife reserve
JudasPriest1
Curses will only work if you truly want to and need to use it. Vodoo is the same way. Trust me I have had to use curses a couplle of times. And they do not turn you into animals that is a myth currently. So watch what you say and do 'cause you might end up with some negetive phenomena. And just to clarify this, I'm a pagen atheist and wiccans annoy me they're to new agey.
The Colonel's Girl
i practice paganism and the wiccans also annoy me. but, yeah, do watch what you say.
xrninja
isn't whatshername....luciferownsme a wiccan? i recall her saying before that whatever she follows doesn't do any of that cursing crapo.
Foolio
i have a couple of friends that are wiccan. they try to get me to read their books etc, and when i look at it i just think "how do they believe this?" i perfer to just be a "lost soul"
Bling_bling_Angel
My opinions is that it's just a sad attempt at trying to bring back the heathen past. I mean, big deal, right? It just makes people think they're "different" and all that crap... sleep.gif
vazel
^ i agree it's just a attempt by attention whore people to be different. witchcraft paganism is lame. what would be neat is if we saw a revival of old greco-roman religions. then we'd have a temple to zeus in los angeles.
Raven
QUOTE(xrninja @ Apr 28 2005, 07:54 PM)
isn't whatshername....luciferownsme a wiccan? i recall her saying before that whatever she follows doesn't do any of that cursing crapo.
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No, Wiccans don't do curses, or any thing else that involves hurting people and animals with magick.

By the way, has anyone here actually read enough to make a valid opinion? Or are you all just going on what youv'e heard through roumour and heresay? Bearing in mind, when Christianity was a new religion, the Romans fealt the same way about Christianity as you guys do about Wicca and Paganism. I'm not saying that it'll become a hugely practiced religion in a few hundred years time, just that you give it some tolerance.
Carnal Malefactor
I'd love to see heathenism brought back into the mainstream, if it were by people who could actually get some results. biggrin.gif
JudasPriest1
If everyone went celtic again now that would be cool. We would put our enemies heads on pikes and display them in the front yard as a warning. laugh.gif
Bling_bling_Angel
dry.gif... Yeah, ummm hmmm... sure thing.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 29 2005, 11:38 PM)
dry.gif... Yeah, ummm hmmm... sure thing.
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If you've got something substantive to say, say it. Don't act all smug and prissy and beat around the bush. It's really lame.
Bling_bling_Angel
Oh for goodness' sake, man... I'm trynna say its <censored>ing stupid, is all... sleep.gif

It's like an enthymeme... you find your own conclusion... dry.gif
Envy's lil' miniskirt
I have a few friends who are pagens. They are old school not the Hot Topic type wiccans. They don't put curses on people or make love potions or anything like that but they do hold rituals once in a while for spring and things like that. They even had a pagen wedding.

From what they told me putting a curse on someone is very bad because it can come back to the person who cast the curse three fold. In other words, it can be much worse for the curser than the cursie.
Bling_bling_Angel
But why bother with all that stuff? For "postive" feelings? Positiveness isn't about making rituals or stuff... it's all inside... mellow.gif
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 29 2005, 11:53 PM)
But why bother with all that stuff? For "postive" feelings? Positiveness isn't about making rituals or stuff... it's all inside... mellow.gif
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Right, so everyone should just shut up, worship christ and not doubt what the Pope says, right? Give me a break.
hitokiri
@bling: the basic point is that if there were, say, a neutral alien observer, what makes your religion any less ridiculous than the one you are mocking to them? to any outside party the belief structures of both are inherently equally ridiculous.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 29 2005, 04:53 PM)
But why bother with all that stuff? For "postive" feelings? Positiveness isn't about making rituals or stuff... it's all inside... mellow.gif
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Why is what they do any different than you praying to god and going to chruch? No matter how you look at it religion is religion is religion and everybody thinks their religion is right and thinks their god is the only and right one. In reality it's all the same.
Bling_bling_Angel
I beg to differ, people... mellow.gif

Christianity is has a universe of difference from paganistic cults, so don't even get me started... dry.gif
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 30 2005, 01:40 AM)
I beg to differ, people... mellow.gif

Christianity is has a universe of difference from paganistic cults, so don't even   get me started... dry.gif
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Humor us.

What exactly do you know about paganism?
Come to think of it, what do you know about any religion that's not Catholicism?

Seriously. Quit this ridiculous stonewalling, and let's have a real debate.

I think girigiri hit it right on the nose when he said that to an impartial observer, Christianity and its spinoffs are no less ridiculous than any other religion.
Foolio
they all require that "leap of faith" that streches what is really known. thats why i prefer to stay away and keep to my own world of belief.
Bling_bling_Angel
Don't give me that shit, Bacon...

I've studied philosophy and theology for 4 years. I think I know what I'm saying.

I'm not about to enter into a debate with someone like you, who has his mind set against what I have to say... you're the one who won't think in a broad-minded sense, not me...
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 30 2005, 01:46 AM)
Don't give me that shit, Bacon...

I've studied philosophy and theology for 4 years. I think I know what I'm saying.

I'm not about to enter into a debate with someone like you, who has his mind set against what I have to say... you're the one who won't think in a broad-minded sense, not me...
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That's a load of shit. The whole point of a debate is arguing with someone with an opposing mindset.
And again, you've studied theology at a Catholic school. That's not the same as going and independantly researching other religions and customs. As far as I'm concerned, you know nothing of any other religion, until you prove otherwise.
Bling_bling_Angel
Give me an example, and I'll prove you otherwise.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 30 2005, 01:51 AM)
Give me an example, and I'll prove you otherwise.
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Well, how about we hit close to home... edsgirl is a Native American. They're pagans. Tell me what you know of their customs.
Bling_bling_Angel
Native American? What? North America or South America?

happy.gif

My debates aren't about mastering other religions... it's about justifying and explaining mine. I rest my case.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 30 2005, 01:56 AM)
Native American? What? North America or South America?

happy.gif

My debates aren't about mastering other religions... it's about justifying and explaining mine. I rest my case.
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Cherokee.

But we're talking about relativism. You're stonewalling again. In order to assert superiority, you have to understand what you're asserting superiority over.

The bottom line is, one superstition and set of rituals is no less ridiculous or far-fetched than any other. If you strip away the mythology and ritual, and get down to secular ethics, you're left with fundamentally similar ideas.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 29 2005, 06:56 PM)
Native American? What? North America or South America?


What?
Native Americans=Indians=the people who were here before the white man stole their land.


QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 29 2005, 06:56 PM)
happy.gif

My debates aren't about mastering other religions... it's about justifying and explaining mine. I rest my case.
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For someone as well educated as you claim to be you are not making a very good case for yourself.
Bling_bling_Angel
*shrugs*

I studied theology and philosophy... I never said I was educated
hitokiri
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 29 2005, 10:12 PM)
*shrugs*

I studied theology and philosophy... I never said I was educated
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again, bling, you are missing the point. you are a catholic which makes you biased, which is completely understandable. what we are trying to say is that if there were an outside observer who has never been exposed to any type of religion all types of religion would be equally ridiculous to them.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
Speaking of the Cherokee the ex-mr miniskirt is half Cherokee so I presented this question to him:

Native Americans were not Pagens but they believed in one creator, the great creator. But they were caretakers of the land and only took what the needed and didn't rape and pillage the land like may christians do. They believed animal had souls and would thank what they killed for providing a meal and other necessitys.
mongooseboi
i actually wrote an article for the school newspaper about misconceptions regarding wiccans. turns out they aren't satan-whorshipers after all. as a matter of fact, i remeber saying that they dont even believe in an all evil god.
telepika
Just because someone has a Catholic education doesn't mean they're biased. You'll be surprised about how liberal and open some Catholics are, like the Catholics at my private high school. We had gay teachers, one of the teachers was openly socialist, we weren't brainwashed with Catholic doctrine in "religion" class. But then again, my Catholic high school did get in a big fight with the Catholic Church...
Quistis88
I guess I could add my two cents. I have mental pennies to spare.

QUOTE(hitokiri @ Apr 29 2005, 06:33 PM)
@bling: the basic point is that if there were, say, a neutral alien observer, what makes your religion any less ridiculous than the one you are mocking to them? to any outside party the belief structures of both are inherently equally ridiculous.

As already stated by other people, this is the first and most rational thing said in this thread thus far.

QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 29 2005, 07:46 PM)
I'm not about to enter into a debate with someone like you, who has his mind set against what I have to say... you're the one who won't think in a broad-minded sense, not me...

Sorry to say, but that's a little hypocritical, wouldn't you think? Being open-minded means feeling no prejudice towards ideas, whatever ideas they may be. By saying that Bacon is not broad-minded and you are not is more than a little contradictory. Besides, if everyone had an open mind, there would be no entertaining debates.

QUOTE(telepika @ Apr 30 2005, 01:37 AM)
Just because someone has a Catholic education doesn't mean they're biased.  You'll be surprised about how liberal and open some Catholics are, like the Catholics at my private high school.

Keyword in bold.
telepika
QUOTE(Quistis88 @ Apr 30 2005, 12:52 AM)
QUOTE(telepika @ Apr 30 2005, 01:37 AM)
Just because someone has a Catholic education doesn't mean they're biased.  You'll be surprised about how liberal and open some Catholics are, like the Catholics at my private high school.

Keyword in bold.
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blink.gif True. True. But I'm just responding to Hito. Hitokiri: "You are a Catholic which makes you biased." Forgive me if I'm wrong Mr. Hitokiri, but aren't you biased too because you're atheist? Wait a minute, are you atheist? I know you belong to the Church of Hito-ism... but, dare I say, that's not a true established religion...

*Gets ready to be tomato-ed by the faithful followers of Hito-ism*
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Envy's lil' miniskirt @ Apr 30 2005, 02:22 AM)
Speaking of the Cherokee the ex-mr miniskirt is half Cherokee so I presented this question to him:

Native Americans were not Pagens but they believed in one creator, the great creator.  But they were caretakers of the land and only took what the needed and didn't rape and pillage the land like may christians do.  They believed animal had souls and would thank what they killed for providing a meal and other necessitys.
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My apologies.

QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 30 2005, 02:12 AM)
*shrugs*

I studied theology and philosophy... I never said I was educated
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Nice cop-out.
edsgirl
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Apr 29 2005, 08:52 PM)
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 30 2005, 01:51 AM)
Give me an example, and I'll prove you otherwise.
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Well, how about we hit close to home... edsgirl is a Native American. They're pagans. Tell me what you know of their customs.
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I'm pagan? When did that happen? What Envy said is exactly right! We do not regard our spirtualality and ceremonies as a "religion" as most Christians do. Although many Native American families are christians today, which is weird, but there is a much bigger story brhind that.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(edsgirl @ Apr 30 2005, 06:03 PM)
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Apr 29 2005, 08:52 PM)
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Apr 30 2005, 01:51 AM)
Give me an example, and I'll prove you otherwise.
[snapback]163350[/snapback]


Well, how about we hit close to home... edsgirl is a Native American. They're pagans. Tell me what you know of their customs.
[snapback]163352[/snapback]




I'm pagan? When did that happen? What Envy said is exactly right! We do not regard our spirtualality and ceremonies as a "religion" as most Christians do. Although many Native American families are christians today, which is weird, but there is a much bigger story brhind that.
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Yah, sorry for misrepresenting. I'm not especially versed in NA religions, myself. I just wanted to test Ms. Bling to see how much she knew, or thought she knew.
Guest
QUOTE(JudasPriest1 @ Apr 28 2005, 07:36 PM)
I'm a pagen atheist and wiccans annoy me they're to new agey.
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Isn't pagan "one who believes in many gods" and atheist "one who does not believe in any god"? So you can be both at the same time?

@Bacon: Well obviously you don't know much either.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Guest @ Apr 30 2005, 06:46 PM)
QUOTE(JudasPriest1 @ Apr 28 2005, 07:36 PM)
I'm a pagen atheist and wiccans annoy me they're to new agey.
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Isn't pagan "one who believes in many gods" and atheist "one who does not believe in any god"? So you can be both at the same time?

@Bacon: Well obviously you don't know much either.
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I never claimed to. But I knew there was someone here that I could consult for the facts.
hitokiri
QUOTE(telepika @ Apr 30 2005, 05:48 AM)
blink.gif True. True. But I'm just responding to Hito. Hitokiri: "You are a Catholic which makes you biased." Forgive me if I'm wrong Mr. Hitokiri, but aren't you biased too because you're atheist?
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well i'm an observer of capitolism, i worship the power of money and all the nice crap i can buy with it... laugh.gif but yes as part of one group, i am partially biased against others; that is the nature of humanity and being biased...

QUOTE
I know you belong to the Church of Hito-ism... but, dare I say, that's not a true established religion...

your belief in the establishment of the church of hito-ism is not required; it only matters if the irs believes.....
DarkWater Alchemist
QUOTE(telepika @ Apr 30 2005, 08:37 AM)
Just because someone has a Catholic education doesn't mean they're biased.  You'll be surprised about how liberal and open some Catholics are, like the Catholics at my private high school. We had gay teachers, one of the teachers was openly socialist, we weren't brainwashed with Catholic doctrine in "religion" class. But then again, my Catholic high school did get in a big fight with the Catholic Church...
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I've been in a catholic school too, but we quite soon skipped from the bible to things about life in religion class. Wich is a very good thing too.

If you'd want to return to being Celtic, you'd need to live like it. Like having feasts for the longest night and all... wasn't Halloween one of those ancient feasts - wich the Dutch brought to the US and is not returning to Europe. Well. Gah. I don't know enough anymore so I'll shut up XD

@Hitokiri: Capitalism isn't that bad as long as you got money. ANd everyone here has. C'mon, you've got internet if you're reading this, right? Or you at least go to school biggrin.gif I'm a capitalist in ways. I like to own stuff. Simple, ne? Capitalists don't need a god.
Yamato145
QUOTE(Raven @ Apr 29 2005, 05:32 AM)
QUOTE(xrninja @ Apr 28 2005, 07:54 PM)
isn't whatshername....luciferownsme a wiccan? i recall her saying before that whatever she follows doesn't do any of that cursing crapo.
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No, Wiccans don't do curses, or any thing else that involves hurting people and animals with magick.

By the way, has anyone here actually read enough to make a valid opinion? Or are you all just going on what youv'e heard through roumour and heresay? Bearing in mind, when Christianity was a new religion, the Romans fealt the same way about Christianity as you guys do about Wicca and Paganism. I'm not saying that it'll become a hugely practiced religion in a few hundred years time, just that you give it some tolerance.
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I'm just wondering ... you do know paganism is one of the oldest religions right.
it is in no way a "new religion"
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