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sfz
After I saw Sonchou release I got myself on some newer questions.

Before the intro Sloth and Lust are talking about why did she let Ed and Al go. The obvius reason was because Al has the necklace that Scar put on him (or at least is what i think is the reason) .

But in this conversation Lust ask Sloth if she wants to become human.
Sloths responds saying:
"I do, but.. Iwas born with that in mind. That is my only objetive."

What "that" could be? I don't know if this was a error on the traslation, but could the humonuculus have a hidden agenda besides trying to be human.

Maybe "that" is the reason why Greed backstabed Dante and was later sealed. He didn't want to do it.

on another note (dont want to start new topic)
Some Facts of this EP
When Lyra and Rose are walking on this city could this be the same Central?
Also this Church they enter Rose says that it resembles some part of God Leto (Lior) Church In greek mytology Leto was the woman who gave birth to Apollo and Artemis

I remembered the name Dante from somewhere so I did a little search thru the internet and I found "La Divina Comedia" The Divine Comedy is a famous poem book written by Dante Alighieri an Italian. On "El Pulgatorio"part of the The Divine Comedy he describes the Seven Deadly Sins (first time is used in history I think) and gave them order from worst to least worst.

Pride
Envy
Wrath
Sloth
Greed
Gluttony
Lust
Vael
Yes, I figured out the Dante part a while ago. Easiest thing I could come up with, especially since Dante is a male's name, and Dante in mainstream things is generally derived from the Divine Comedy. And I thought "that" was BECOMING human, and their other objectives were just to follow Dante/Lyra O.o
Virtue
The homunculus want to become human that we all know. I believe what "THAT" refers to is opening the Door. I believe whatever the Homunculus were to beging with(part of that darkness with hundreds of eyes)wants to be released and the Philosiphers stone is needed in order to fully open the door to allow the darkness to escape. This would be plausable, all of them were trapped within the door and we know that it drove Wrath insane when he was given his memories of the door(which the red stones seem to be the catylist to bring back their memories of the door).

So all of this time the Homunculus could be even manipulating Dante into believeing they want to be human when in actuality they want to use the stone to open the door.

and I would like to add all of our theories are correct about Dante's Inferno linked to FMA if this quote is ever used or is actually ont he door tto the truth(it is the most famous quote from Dante's Inferno)

"Through me the way into the suffering city,
Through me the way to the eternal pain,
Through me the way that runs among the lost.
Justice urged on my high artificer;
My maker was divine authority,
The highest wisdom, and the primal love.
Before me nothing but eternal things were made,
And I endure eternally.
Abandon every hope, ye who enter here."
Guest
Check the bible, they 7 deadly sins are in there too.
Hellrasinbrasin
1) We know that Homunculus are created when alchemists fail Human Transmutation.

2) We know that the Homunculus are guiding people to "create the Philosophers
Stone", The Elric Brothers to name a few.

3) We know that someone has been guiding, manipulating and giving Homunculus multiple lives for a desired goal.

4) We now know that Izumi's teacher Dante is "That person" or rather Dante is an
entity that takes over a persons body.

5) It can be assumed that this entity comes from beyond the gate. We know that the military uses alchemy but what was the source of information on this "Art".
Could it be that this being entered someones body proposed that alchemy would be of great use to the military to make the philosophers stone to remove the need
to jump from body to body.

6) Hoenheim's body has been taken over by an entity similar to Dante. Like the post starter stated and others have that elements of "Dante's Inferno" can be seen throughout the show.

7) Dante = a representation of the Devil
Hoenheim = a representation of God
Homunculus = the Devils minions

8) At this point in the show one of the seven of Dante minions have been eleminated.

9) Scar in a last attempt to save Alphonse Elric transfers the Alchemy glyph from his right arm onto Al's body. the glyph serves as an address for the Philosophers Stone. Al now having become the carrier of the Stone of Power is along with Ed
being pursued by the military Pride the other Homunculus all to serve Dantes Will.
Crimsonblade
An interesting pun on the name Dante: Dante=Everlasting
Crimsonblade
Dante's inferno was a hella awesome book.
Guest
QUOTE
Sloths responds saying:
"I do, but.. Iwas born with that in mind. That is my only objetive."


If I were Dante, I would certainly have some special tasks in mind for someone who looks exactly like the wife of Hohenheim wink.gif
Virtue
I highly doubt Dante is from beyond the gate. I still believe the Hoenheim and Dante tried to ressurect two people(Greed and Envy)as two normal Alchemists and were the first to see the gate and to create Homunculus. After learning what they learned from the gate Dante decided to manipulate Alchemists in order to open the gate while Hoeheim just wanted a nromal life.
sfz
Good pondering Virtue

But how come they Dante and Hoenheim are so old? Why would Hoenheim want a normal life if he trasmuted himself to another body?

I think the ones who visit the gate and are able to return from it gains some slow agin proccess for them to live as long but with the condition of trasmuting themselves to other bodies or maybe it's the other way arround the process is acelerated either way it's very interesting. Look at Izumi she has lived so many years without some important organs of the female body. Even tho she's going thru hell vomiting blood and stuff but still she is alive.

Also any you guys have a clue where is Envy?
TrueAlchemist
Nice question sfz!!
Envy is not on the screen for a long time.

My first guess is Central. It is main base, and Sloth is out of town, so some one needs to take her spot, so he might change his form to work for pride.

Second, he might be planning to attack Eric Brothers. In ending, he changed himself into Hughes and attacked Ed. We might see Envy at Rizenpool.

Third, he might be near the Dante. We didnot see him yet, but if he is on the screen with Hoenheim, we, fans might know background story b/t Envy and Hoenheim.

And, Many people believe that Envy and Greed are created by Hoenheim and Dante, but I do not agree. I thought Dante made Greed from the beginning before I know about Dante being evil. But, at this point I think Dante is nothing but feeding them red stones to control Homuculus. I donot know how she summoned failures of Human alchemy, but i think we will know soon.
Vael
I honestly hope and believe Dante and Hohenheim were normal humans at one point in time. The show is far, FAR too scientific as to take a turn with "They are from BEYOND THE GATE TO HEEEEEELLLL!"

Second, I'm assuming Envy's at central. Then again, Hohenheim and Dante are ALSO at Central... in a temple... in a secluded area... but Central nonetheless. I hope he gets a HELL of a lot more screentime, though... I miss him, and not many episodes are left ;_;
TrueAlchemist
Remember, Hoenheim said, Ones from beyond gate cannot use Alchemy.

But, either way, Hoenheim is not so human because he lived a long time.
Vael
Just because you've lived longer than a natural human possibly could, doesn't mean you are not human. Your soul does not die when your body does (As proven by Al). Based on how Hohenheim and Dante were acting towards eachother ("She has been in that body for too long", "He has been in that body for too long"), and how Hohenheim was telling Al that he could get his body back and transfer his soul into it, it is my belief that Dante and Hohenheim merely use Soul Transmutation on new subjects so that they can continue to live on in new bodies. **Shrug**
dandie_candie
Hohenheim does mention that you can take a soul and then put it into another body, when he was talking to Al. So, that is a possible. Dante must have done the same thing as well.
TrueAlchemist
I am wondering about Hoenheim.
I do not think Hoenheim is evil enough to take someone else's body.

My wild guess is Hoenheim somehow found a way to make a clone or make a spare body for himself. Another guess is that Hoenheim somehow found his way to stop his aging process. But, it is not possible because Roy told Hoenheim that Roy saw the picture of Hoenheim when Hoenheim was young. And, Hoenheim lived more than 400 or something like that.

And, now do you guys think Izumi will help out Eric brothers?
or just acting as bystander.
sfz
If he is as good as he looks in alchemy maybe he created a "fake human" all you will need are the components (Ed's mention them on EP 1 or 2).

I saw the last EP where Envy showed up he mentions something that where he is is a very quiet place so there's a big possibility that he is in Rizenbul, being a rural town, unlike Central (Big City).

Jumping on a wild conclusion: now that I think about it he could have killed Pinako and taken over her place. This might be a posibility because on ep 44 Pinako talks about Hughes when she never really met him! Only Winry and Bookgirl might have talk about it but I dont think that ever happened. Because they would want to keep Ed and Al in the dark about Hughes death.
sfz
Also at the end of EP44 Dante orders Gluttony to fight Hoenheim. Hoenheim makes a trasmution with air (i think) and makes some spikes. Why is Gluttony afraid of these? He fought with Scar and he had the arm that performed some kind of alchemy.

On some interesting facts about the 5th laboratory. They were experimenting with humans making chimeras and those armor people like Al. Ever wondered who did that? Surely it wasnt the Tucker he cant even trasmute the other chimeras right. This was just after the Ishbal war who could have had that talent in alchemy to perform this?

On the Philosopher Stone. I remember someone posting about that the original Philosopher Stone was white or maybe crystal (able to see thru) and the fake one is red. At the end of the EP44 they show Hoenheim with some crystal like body could he be the original Philosopher Stone and that way he's been living for long?
pwx
Well the only explaination I can think of for Gluttony being scared is that Hoenheim is in a different league than Scar. Scar could only destroy while Hoenheim, with little effort, created spikes of light seemingly out of nowhere. (I have a feeling the fact that they were light also played a factor as the homonculus are mostly dark)


Hmm interesting theory about Hoenheim having the philosophers stone, He did mention something about how WITH the philosophers stone you could attach your soul to someone elses body. But then again, I believe he's always used the same body himself. We do know that he has sought the philosophers stone before though and we know he's done research into human transmutation.

As for Dante, I believe that's the first time she's ever switched bodies because her old body wasn't rotting and Ed and Al never mentioned her having the perfume. I also think what Dante did wrong was she tried to attach her soul like Edward attached Al's soul to the suit of armor. She can move the limbs but the body is still dead (thus it starts decaying) There might be two different methods to affixing the soul, one for a body and one for an object

I also believe the perfume is for something else besides covering smells . If you think about it, why would Dante use the same perfume of Hoenheim if it was just to cover the smell. Other perfumes could do it but she has to use that particular one. That makes me think that the perfume itself is something

oh what was the last episode Envy was in? I don't think he killed Pinako but I am kind of curious to know where he was last since I haven't seen him in the series for a while.
vimes
About Hmonculus and Hohenheim... I don't know if you remember that but in episode 22 in which Ed is given the choice to create the philosopher stone in the 5th Warehouse, there is a scene in which Envy kicks him and says : " I will never forgive you since you carry that bastard's blood"
Which means that Ed's father has been involved in some way with the creation oh Homunculi.
My guess is that he has helped Dante for centuries in the application of one of his theories and finally realizing what he had done he fled.
Guest_Psycojester
Its also quite possible to hate you enemy as well as your creator
Den
QUOTE(sfz @ Aug 17 2004, 04:14 AM)
On some interesting facts about the 5th laboratory. They were experimenting with humans making chimeras and those armor people like Al. Ever wondered who did that? Surely it wasnt the Tucker he cant  even trasmute the other chimeras right.  This was just after the Ishbal war who could have had that talent in alchemy to perform this?

It was certainly Dante.

And Envy was seen in the ep 38 for the last time (when winry spy sloth)
TrueAlchemist
pwx
Great point.
I also had similar idea about their perfume.

I do not think Hoenheim have a the P. Stone, maybe he had it in the past.

My another guess about envy and Hoenheim is kind of twisted, but I will spit it out anyway. I think Envy might be Hoenheim's son because I developed this idea because when I saw, Envy hate Ed because of Hoenheim. I thought relationship b/t Envy and Hoenheim might be deeper than just being enemy.
Or, Envy might also be Hoenheim's brother, but I think the story will be cooler if Envy is Hoenheim's son.

This is only my idea.
What do you think??
Edward-Fan
First, sorry for interrupting your interesting conversation... wink.gif

...but something irritated me in ep.44!! blink.gif Why is everbody screaming when Winry asked about Ed's and Lyla's relationship while Hohenheim listens from outside the house???What's happening inside??? huh.gif huh.gif
Can anyone guess?!
sfz
I think Winry was jealous of this Lyla. When they talked about it and started fighting
odoridan
Hah! I really like that idea about Envy being Hohenheim's son. That would make a really great reason to hate Ed. He could be envious that Ed is the living son and he's just a homonculus. biggrin.gif

And maybe when Hohenheim was saying to Dante to leave his sons alone, he could have been talking about Envy and/or Gluttony and/or Pride. biggrin.gif Unlikely, but it's a nice idea.

So where is Envy at? I like the Pinako idea but it seems really unlikely. He's been on his mission forever. Spoiler? I know he'll show up by 48 because there's episode summaries out there somewhere and they mention him in the summary.
EDIT: Oops, after reviewing the summaries they don't mention Envy, but it's implied wink.gif


It just occured to me that nobody posted the ep summaries for 45-48 on this board. If anybody sees them, they should post them... (I forget where I read them... some other board. I'll post them if I run into them again.)

EDIT: I posted the summaries in a new thread.
Omakase Shimasu
QUOTE
Also at the end of EP44 Dante orders Gluttony to fight Hoenheim. Hoenheim makes a trasmution with air (i think) and makes some spikes. Why is Gluttony afraid of these? He fought with Scar and he had the arm that performed some kind of alchemy.


Those spikes were supposed to be icicles. The only way to "kill" Gluttony is ice. Read this on some site or other. wink.gif

Maybe Envy is avoiding Rizenbul because of Hohenheim? It wouldn't be unreasonable since both Elric's are there.... Makes me wonder why Envy hasn't said something similar to Al (about hating the Elric's, that is)
Xenocide
I'm pretty sure that "crystal body of hohenheim's" is Hohenheim envelloped by sloth. My guess is he is caught offguard by sloth, who looks like his wife.

My favorite open question right now is who made the homonoculus Fuhrer Bradley? About the only option open is Hohenheim. He can transmute without a circle, and certainly knows about The Gate. Dante is a possibilty, but I suspect she made Envy, who really despises the Elrics (perhaps Dante's misplaced envy!). It makes sense, since at the end of ep 44, we see Hohenheim bargining with Dante, using the only thing he's got, knowledge Dante doesn't have.
TheVileOne
Why is ice the only way to kill/hurt Gluttony? I thought you needed the remains of a homunculus to make them vulnerable at all.
Omakase Shimasu
According to a site, there were certain ways to "punish" a Sin in Hell. Gluttony's was with ice. I think I'll put up a link to the site, just give me a minute!

Ah, got it: http://serpents-cross.cjb.net/

Just go to Information -- Background -- Seven Deadly Sins. One of the best Full Metal Alchemist sites out there. cool.gif
Vael
Somehow I doubt they're using the punishments as deaths for the homunculus in this... and... uhm... Error, Omikase...

"Gluttony is the sixth deadly sin, it describes when one consumes more than he or she requires. The punishment in Hell as a result of this sin, is being forced to eat rats, toads, and snakes."

No ice, there =P Envy has the ice punishment. Anyway, Greed wasn't boiled in oil, so I doubt they're using these as their actual deaths.
Omakase Shimasu
Ooooops... Um... That post wasn't done by any Omakase I know of!!

dry.gif Geez, you really know how to crash my party, doncha? tongue.gif
Vael
Yes, I do know how. And I THOROUGHLY ENJOY IT! **maniacal laughter**
Omakase Shimasu
Glad you enjoy a laugh at my expense.

....blah, I hate you, I really do. I should've had let you suffer in the "Ed Winry Couple" thread when I had the chance. XP
Blahblah
...just because he is Hohenheim of Light or whatever...doesnt mean he uses light to attack...who creates spikes from light? Plus he made a lot of alphonse golem thingymajiggers, which it all looks like ice, as the people previously said >_>, although light is consistant with parts of the particle theory and wave theory of light...it doesnt mean it can be solid...also..didn't it look like Lust was dead in FMA 43...even though she has been stabbed through her body previously and lived, like when Dr. Marcoh (it was Marcoh! the note he gave to ed said "Tom Marcoh," i think it was tom..) made a spike in the hotel room, but then she is alive in FMA 44 o.@

and Lyla's body looked really icky
Blahblah
also..maybe Lyla (i dont care if it is really dante, same thing) is gonna use Roze or the baby as her next body? why would she bring her and her baby @_@
although the baby and roze were not visible at the end of 44..
Omakase Shimasu
What would be the use of using a baby's body anyway if Lyla's body can't even handle the transformation? blink.gif I'm a bit stumped. Or I'm misunderstanding once again...
Blahblah
QUOTE(Omakase Shimasu @ Aug 17 2004, 11:47 PM)
What would be the use of using a baby's body anyway if Lyla's body can't even handle the transformation?  blink.gif I'm a bit stumped. Or I'm misunerstanding once again...

dunno, maybe she eats babies
Omakase Shimasu
LoL -- mental image is way too disturbing.
BlueRakuen
XDDDD
sorry that just made me have the weirdest FMAxAuston Powers crossover thoughts blink.gif
*pictures Lyra looking like the big irish guy*
Blahblah
anyone have any idea where Shou Tucker is? He took off with that Archer guy, but now that Archer guy now has half of his body gone (I thought he had died earlier though, he was engulfed in the crimson alchemic array blah blah blah), so where is he now? the shou tucker upside down monster chimera thingymajigger thing i mean
Blahblah
Oh, and Shou Tucker being upside down, doesnt mean he sees everything upside down, some wierdo scientists did a study, where they gave all of the participants pairs of glasses with special lenses, which made everything appear to them as upside down, but after a week or two, their brains adjusted and inverted the image when they wore the glasses as right-side up, but when they took the glasses off after their brain had gotten used to them, the image they saw was upside down again XD but their brains went back to normal after about a day
Omakase Shimasu
Well, maybe you should look in here: Summaries 45-48 Spoiler Thread

Hmmm, the fact that Archer and many of his men didn't die strikes me as odd. I thought by making the Philosopher Stone you would have to sacrifice [so many] people... Does this mean Al isn't even "complete"? I hope Archer won't be turned into a chimera. He was fine the way he was, dammit!!
Blahblah
QUOTE(Omakase Shimasu @ Aug 18 2004, 12:44 AM)
Well, maybe you should look in here: Summaries 45-48 Spoiler Thread

Hmmm, the fact that Archer and many of his men didn't die strikes me as odd. I thought by making the Philosopher Stone you would have to sacrifice [so many] people... Does this mean Al isn't even "complete"? I hope Archer won't be turned into a chimera. He was fine the way he was, dammit!!

I just think that the creator of FMA has a problem with killing off characters, both Lust and Archer seemed to be dead, but they are still alive >_>

I think I shall pass on the spoiler's thread though =P
I can wait for the new episodes...only one thing though, how come FMA 45 ddint come out this week? I havent seen anything about why is all
Omakase Shimasu
Something about the Olympics. dry.gif What's so important about a sport in Greece...? We want FMA!!

And the spoiler thread ain't really that full of spoilers, actually. Just little 2-sentence summaries. Not that I'm forcing you to go look or anything. biggrin.gif;;

Yeah, the deaths are becoming a bit unpredictable. I'm still waiting for the moment Ross will die a gruesome death, though I don't really think this will happen anymore.
Blahblah
QUOTE(Omakase Shimasu @ Aug 18 2004, 12:54 AM)
Something about the Olympics.  dry.gif What's so important about a sport in Greece...? We want FMA!!

And the spoiler thread ain't really that full of spoilers, actually. Just little 2-sentence summaries. Not that I'm forcing you to go look or anything. biggrin.gif;;

Yeah, the deaths are becoming a bit unpredictable. I'm still waiting for the moment Ross will die a gruesome death, though I don't really think this will happen anymore.

oh, I see..your wisdom is endless...maybe they will have a hour special next week =P (how long do the olympics go on for?) USA decided to make their uniforms less american because they didnt want to get killed... o.@

well, if Ross does die gruesomely, like exploding or being eaten alive by snakes, she will come back in the next episode and marry Hohenheim

Speaking of which..in the preview of 45, it shows Lyla/dante holding hohenheim's chin up affectionately...ewww, someone earlier said that her body was dead...which is grody, but the homoculus call her "him" o.@
Omakase Shimasu
QUOTE
well, if Ross does die gruesomely, like exploding or being eaten alive by snakes, she will come back in the next episode and marry Hohenheim


Lol -- Hohenheim's a smooth operator alright. He talks the talk well enough to make a woman like Lt. Ross blush. Poor Brosh, though. biggrin.gif He doesn't stand a chance against the Elric charm. Um, I meant Ross and... you know what I mean.

And yes, Dante/Lyla and Hohenheim (two carcasses) together is squick... blink.gif Not to mention Trisha made lil' Ed and Al with him (Hohenheim).

Unfortunately my wisdom has reached a dead end. sad.gif I dunno when the Olympics end. I only hope it will soon. Very soon. Very very soon!!
Guest
[quote=Blahblah,Aug 18 2004, 01:05 AM] [QUOTE=Omakase Shimasu,Aug 18 2004, 12:54 AM]Speaking of which..in the preview of 45, it shows Lyla/dante holding hohenheim's chin up affectionately...ewww, someone earlier said that her body was dead...which is grody, but the homoculus call her "him" o.@ [/quote]
It amazes me that a mistake by fansubbers is yet still held up by fansub watchers to be fact.

Now they are insisting that a woman is a man instead of accepting the fact that "he", "him", "his" whatever the fansubber used in place of "that person" is a mistake made.

dry.gif
Guest
Ack sorry, quote was supposed to be of blahblah, not Okamase Shimasu. I apologise.
Meda
Firtsly, iīm sorry for my bad english.

About Dante Aligieri, in "La divina comedia" Dante go to find his girl, isnīt it? He try to save her from the hell.

In episode 48 Dante tells Hohenheim, who looks like a medieval or modern? alchemist (i want to say "renacimiento"), well... In fact, she asks him if he mabye are trying to save her (Dante)... again.

Maybe Hohenheim saves her from the hell or something like this.
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