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Kinbari-chan
Ok was it just me or did other people get no sound on this episode? The sound would not work on Cartoon Network but was working fine on other channels. I only got to see the show visually. That's ok though. I've already seen the episode in its original context and know the storyline, but I wanted to see how the English dialogue compared! Anyhow didn't notice any scenes cut out. If any of you guys got sound feel free to discuss the episode, and if you didn't feel free to rant. happy.gif
FullMetal-Superior
that episode was cool and whe nEd found that red room was that blood that came out of the faucet when he turned the knob?
Mortari
QUOTE(Kinbari-chan @ Apr 2 2005, 11:00 PM)
Ok was it just me or did other people get no sound on this episode? The sound would not work on Cartoon Network but was working fine on other channels. I only got to see the show visually. That's ok though. I've already seen the episode in its original context and know the storyline, but I wanted to see how the English dialogue compared! Anyhow didn't notice any scenes cut out. If any of you guys got sound feel free to discuss the episode, and if you didn't feel free to rant. happy.gif
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I had sound over here. Must be the area, sometimes some channels do that with my cable system. It's an alright episode. I don't like the Barry voice very much though. ph34r.gif
Guest
This marks the return of who may well be the most tragedic and most hated character...Shou Tucker. Whom form I see in it's enitirty. Thought I am a bit disappointed that it's not as malformed as I can to blieved(I thought the body would be like something out of Resident Evil or a bit like Hyper-X Karis from Shinzo.)

But Tucker is still a bit insane like we saw him last time, he is showing more regret on his part instead of covering up his excuses to lies to himself and others.
**
But seeing the new "more-human" Chimera-Nina was a surprise, she's obviously the most perfected version in the cloning department.
***
A shame we don't get to see Barry again. Only the comics revealed what happened to him after escaping Scar.
AlphonseRules
Wow, this episode was freakin amazing. It might be my new favorite. At a few parts I almost started to cry, not because it was sad but because I was completely shocked. I liked Scar's memory but his brother was pretty wierd. I thought that the Shou chimera was great, how he was upside down and his altered voice made it extra creepy. It's pretty cool that Al and Scar are cooperating for the moment(what a team). Man did I love this one, so much to think about.
*~Oashisu*~
This was a very dramatic episode. I had to explain to my friend though what was happening, so I wasn't able to get into it as much as I usually do. *coughandhekeptsayinghowstupidtheshowwascough*
ANYWAYS, the scene with Scars brother, very weird in my opinion, poor guy, he seemed like he was going completely insane.
And Greed, I think this was the first time we had heard his voice, either that or I don't remember hearing it earlier, anyways, I was expecting something a little different.
I thought Barry was hilarious though. >.> He such an idiot.
The episode was really cool, and dramatic though.
kungfustickman
QUOTE(AlphonseRules @ Apr 2 2005, 11:09 PM)
Wow, this episode was freakin amazing.  It might be my new favorite.  At a few parts I almost started to cry, not because it was sad but because I was completely shocked.  I liked Scar's memory but his brother was pretty wierd.  I thought that the Shou chimera was great, how he was upside down and his altered voice made it extra creepy.  It's pretty cool that Al and Scar are cooperating for the moment(what a team).  Man did I love this one, so much to think about.
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Glad you liked it. If you pay attention closely you might be able to catch a hint of what's to come. I must continue to stress that almost everything you see in FMA comes back as an important plot point. Well except for episode... nope never mind it's all important.
min951
I thought the episode was great. Scar's brother looked like he was going insane. smile.gif Tucker and the red glow was a fun surprise. Al and Scar made a good team too. My eyes seems glued to the screen when I was watching the episode, I can't wait for next week.
Stained_Wings
i loved this episode. having only been watching this since episode 13, this was my first taste of how thought-provoking and weird FMA is. the shou tucker and red glow thing was pretty cool yet creepy. i'm a bit surprised that Scar and Al teamed up, i would think Al would try to do something - anything - to keep him away from Ed. but then again, Al isn't strong enough to defeat Scar on his own.... and Scar's brother was really creepy when he had all those markings on him and his eyes were all bugged out. also, it was sad when Ed was trying to keep the "younger brother" from destroying his blood seal... Ed was so desperate to treat them like real people and keep him from basically committng suicide,but he did it anyway.

i have a feeling that the red glowing room will be destroyed in the next episode (i hope that's not a spoiler) because that just seems like the kinda thing that would happen. can't wait till next week! ^^
ScarredSweetheart
It was a very good episode. Not that I didn't like number 20, but I thought this one was better. I do think it was highly cruel what happened to scars brother though; what he (seemed)to have givin up during his failed transmutation.
ymsg
QUOTE
This marks the return of who may well be the most tragedic and most hated character...Shou Tucker. Whom form I see in it's enitirty. Thought I am a bit disappointed that it's not as malformed as I can to blieved(I thought the body would be like something out of Resident Evil or a bit like Hyper-X Karis from Shinzo.)

But Tucker is still a bit insane like we saw him last time, he is showing more regret on his part instead of covering up his excuses to lies to himself and others.
**
But seeing the new "more-human" Chimera-Nina was a surprise, she's obviously the most perfected version in the cloning department.
***
A shame we don't get to see Barry again. Only the comics revealed what happened to him after escaping Scar.


The Barry voice sends chills down my spine, lol. But I too was greatly disappointed that Shou Tucker was not more malformed than he was. I swear, I was happy when I heard he was dead. I can't find it in me to trust Tucker entirely; he killed Nina, and I don't want to forgive him for that.

And seeing Chimera-Nina... omg, that was heart-wrenching. Do you think they'll bring her back?
Full Metal Engineer
@ Kinbari-chan: my sound was perfect I dunno about the rest of you but I was ok with the sound and the performance or whatever.

@ FullMetal-Superior: the red "liquid" is the closest thing to the philosophers stone its not really a liquid or a solid its like mercury you know that stuff that when it falls it turns into little balls of liquid.

Episode 21 was pretty cool but instead of answerring the question of Al's memory it just added alot more questions w.o answerring Al's memory and I feel that there wasn't enough action for my taste but it was a pretty cool episode much like a cliff-hanger because now I really cant wait untill next saturday/sunday night/morning to see Episode 22 I'm gonna be so impaitient *starts jumping up and down* it was such a good episode I almost started to cry when I saw the credits rolling up I was like "noo dont let it finish now more more more red stuff...need red stuff" laugh.gif but seriously I think it was like so good that I lost track of time and before I knew it its 12:00
BloodRedAlchemist
[COLOR=red]that episode was soooo good!!
I can't believe Shou Tucker is back. I couldn't stand him after what he did to his own daughter. I feel bad for Ed cause he doesn't know what to do. I mean this is his chance of getting the philospher's stone but should he really trust this man who killed his own daughter to continue being an alchemist. Now I can't wait till next Saturday. It seems sooo far away!!
LightningAlchemist
QUOTE(BloodRedAlchemist @ Apr 3 2005, 05:12 PM)
[COLOR=red]that episode was soooo good!!
I can't believe Shou Tucker is back. I couldn't stand him after what he did to his own daughter. I feel bad for Ed cause he doesn't know what to do. I mean this is his chance of getting the philospher's stone but should he really trust this man who killed his own daughter to continue being an alchemist. Now I can't wait till next Saturday. It seems sooo far away!!
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Ya I cant believe hes back too dry.gif and this episode gave a more indepth of Scars past but what was up with his brother being naked? blink.gif
darkangelslayer
Tuckers a bear... type... thing. Anyways, he sounds good though. He has that whispering thing going on.
Guest
Ymsg & BloodRedAlchemist: Techincally, Tucker did not kill his daughter he just merged her and Alexander. Scar was one who "freed" the girl and her dog from this new-found shared existence.

But while you feel sorry for this nutjob, Tucker is the type of guy you can trust. He's now filled with desire to bring his daughter back to life and in her original human form, but how far he'll go would be compared to when he was focused on staying a State Alchemist. So we'll likely see more of the new Nina-Chimera, but out of stasis I have no idea.
Falling_Man
Great episode. It really ticked me off how the State kept using criminals as alchemic material. And what's the deal with Lust's reaction toward Greed's escape? I thought the Homunculi were united in some way. I wonder how the heck the transmutation circle in the red room will work? [spoiler]Are they gonna stick a bunch of Homunculi or Chimeras on there in addition to the incomplete Philosopher's Stone? And are humans the only useable material? Is it possible to use other animals? Are homunculi replacements for humans in the creation of the Stone? Is that thier original purpose? And were they made from people?[/spoiler] Sorry bout that. Anyway, looking forward to next week. wink.gif
BloodRedAlchemist
QUOTE(LightningAlchemist @ Apr 3 2005, 07:11 PM)
QUOTE(BloodRedAlchemist @ Apr 3 2005, 05:12 PM)
[COLOR=red]that episode was soooo good!!
I can't believe Shou Tucker is back. I couldn't stand him after what he did to his own daughter. I feel bad for Ed cause he doesn't know what to do. I mean this is his chance of getting the philospher's stone but should he really trust this man who killed his own daughter to continue being an alchemist. Now I can't wait till next Saturday. It seems sooo far away!!
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Ya I cant believe hes back too dry.gif and this episode gave a more indepth of Scars past but what was up with his brother being naked? blink.gif
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The thing about him being naked is so u could see all the markings. Being naked in japanese culture is different than what it is over here. Over there its almost a symbol of rebirth. biggrin.gif
AlphonseRules
QUOTE(darkangelslayer @ Apr 3 2005, 07:20 PM)
Tuckers a bear... type... thing. Anyways, he sounds good though. He has that whispering thing going on.
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Yeah, I really liked his voice a lot. It made it sound like he was in pain the whole time ,which hopfully he is cause he certainly deserves it. That was crazy when he walked out from the shadows and couldn't tell it was him, but then he showed his face. Man, that had me on the edge of my seat.
CursedAnubis
QUOTE
Great episode. It really ticked me off how the State kept using criminals as alchemic material


Umm, would you rather they, for example, kidnap innocent people off the streets and use them instead? It may be messed up that they're experimenting with human beings, but still it's better to use an already corrupt person than an innocent one, IMO.

I found this episode to be more exciting than episode 20, because so much information is revealed. Scar's brother tried to bring back his girlfriend and failed, having results similar to what happened when Ed and Al tried to bring back their mother... hmm. I love the questions that this episode brings up:
What exactly is that tattooed circle on Scar's arm?
Why was Scar's brother covered in those tattoos?
Will Ed be able to form an Philosoher's Stone in that red glowing room?
I hope that episode 22 is just as good as this one.
animeluver25
man... i didn't get to see it. i missed it, i can't believe i did that, but can you guys tell me what happened? please?
Guest
QUOTE(CursedAnubis @ Apr 3 2005, 08:43 PM)
I found this episode to be more exciting than episode 20, because so much information is revealed. Scar's brother tried to bring back his girlfriend and failed, having results similar to what happened when Ed and Al tried to bring back their mother... hmm. I love the questions that this episode brings up:
What exactly is that tattooed circle on Scar's arm?
Why was Scar's brother covered in those tattoos?
Will Ed be able to form an Philosoher's Stone in that red glowing room?
I hope that episode 22 is just as good as this one.
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[spoiler]
1. the symbol on scar's arm is the same thing as the array in that room of Red Water.
2. big clue: the tattoos on him is the same as Scar's
3. yes he can [/spoiler]


QUOTE
And what's the deal with Lust's reaction toward Greed's escape? I thought the Homunculi were united in some way. I wonder how the heck the transmutation circle in the red room will work? 


[spoiler]
Overall, ya the homunculus work together, but Greed is one that rebelled against the others. He doesn't want to be human, like the others.
All around the room is the basic material in the room, Red Water, the array on the ceiling and the floor...and prisoners hidden away. [/spoiler]
ymsg
QUOTE
Ymsg & BloodRedAlchemist: Techincally, Tucker did not kill his daughter he just merged her and Alexander. Scar was one who "freed" the girl and her dog from this new-found shared existence.

But while you feel sorry for this nutjob, Tucker is the type of guy you can trust. He's now filled with desire to bring his daughter back to life and in her original human form, but how far he'll go would be compared to when he was focused on staying a State Alchemist. So we'll likely see more of the new Nina-Chimera, but out of stasis I have no idea.


It was because of him that she died, though. If he hadn't gone and... and , transmutated his OWN DAUGHTER, she wouldn't have been killed by Scar. Yeah... 'freed' my butt.

I don't feel sorry for him either, and I don't know whether or not I can trust him. He seems honest enough by creating chimera-nina, but I don't know if we'll ever get the one we love back. Then again, you're speaking unbiased, where I am so pro-nina, death to Tucker, that you make more sense than I.
sailorv
I just rewatched this episode 'cause there were so many things happening. I was pretty bummed after seeing it the first time - too much stress!!! ohmy.gif But the second time through, I could see the multiple threads of plot developing, so it wasn't as overwhelming.

With my first viewing, I wondered why on earth Barry had been given the power to free some(one)(thing) who'd been locked up for 130 years! On rewatching, I'm now guessing that Greed's freedom was an unintended side-effect of the blast Barry triggered. What do you think?

Also, I'm racking my brain with regards to any "old" alchemist lore/legend/history that might tie into Greed's 130 years of internment, but I'm coming up with nothing. Anybody catch anything with regards to this in the first 19 episodes?

Cheers!

PS No spoilers please biggrin.gif
AlphonseRules
I thought that Barry released Greed as well, but know that you mention it, it seems more likely that it was an accident caused by the explosion. Especially since even Glutony and Lust seem to fear Greed.
Jen_Elric
Wow! This episode was so good! I thought that Tucker looked creepy, and his voice didn't help either. I almost cried twice in the episode. Alot of questions were answered(ok...not alot but a few) but alot of questions came up! I can't wait until episode 22, but for now I'll just have to watch this episode again on Thursday night!
Guest
Ymsg: True, but Nina's condition was because of Basque Gran himself, as the entire beastman Project was his own design. It seemed by Tucker's saddeness when he saw his daughter as a human for last time hinted that Basque Gran made the selection, and may had even threaten to indirectly kill Nina if Shou didn't cooperate. Tucker is weak, unable to resist temptation on forbidden territory and standing up for his own child. But Tucker lost more than just his daughter...He lost his sanity.

As I meant to say, Tucker can't be all trusted. But whatever Nina's shall return is of question. But I like Nina, she was cute and was a shame she lasted only two episodes, only to become a major plot device. Tucker is only a victim of the hell he created for himself. Which all began with his daughter made into a chimera and he slowly decended into maddness, with a body to match with his mentality.
**
But seeing you 'pro-Nina', maybe I E-Mail you a fic I have relating to her and non-FMA character.
Sikiu-San
wow its hard to tell what happend in the manga comparied to this episode XXDD;;; but i like how scar killed tucker in the manga dry.gif bastard deserved to die that way in the anime too *coughs* good episode ^O^ my heart was pounding miles a minute though this whole. first off greed. not jumping up and down about his voice but they did do a good job biggrin.gif im glad they left that scene with kimbely >_> <3 ok on with bary, someoen said that this was the last we saw of him >_> is that true? bary is the one thats suppost to give them alot of info *gonk* but in a way thats good because i hate his voice dry.gif tuckers form was *shivers* and whats with people in fma having their heads upside down *gonk* *dies* ;-; aslo one thing puzzles me with scar and lust =/ but i cant say because its a spoiler of what happens later in the show *gonk* well anyone who has seen the entier seires send me a message ph34r.gif i might not respond right away thoguth ^^;;; scars brother i fell sorry for him. poor man lost his mind because of alchemy and his obsession for his love. i was also cracking up a bit because i was compairng scars voice from the flash back to now XD;; yeah i know he ws younger then but still tongue.gif i cant wait for saturdays episode ^O^ lots of action ph34r.gif ^O^
ymsg
QUOTE
Ymsg: True, but Nina's condition was because of Basque Gran himself, as the entire beastman Project was his own design. It seemed by Tucker's saddeness when he saw his daughter as a human for last time hinted that Basque Gran made the selection, and may had even threaten to indirectly kill Nina if Shou didn't cooperate. Tucker is weak, unable to resist temptation on forbidden territory and standing up for his own child. But Tucker lost more than just his daughter...He lost his sanity.

As I meant to say, Tucker can't be all trusted. But whatever Nina's shall return is of question. But I like Nina, she was cute and was a shame she lasted only two episodes, only to become a major plot device. Tucker is only a victim of the hell he created for himself. Which all began with his daughter made into a chimera and he slowly decended into maddness, with a body to match with his mentality.
**
But seeing you 'pro-Nina', maybe I E-Mail you a fic I have relating to her and non-FMA character.


I'd like to see the fic. My email's in my profile.

Gran is a sick, sadistic, twisted man, and Tucker's a weakling for not standing up for his own daughter. That's so.. disgusting. And you're exactly right; he can't resist temptation on new territory, so much that he would sacrifice the only family he had, and sanity he had for it. Shows how well that turned out for him.
Guest
Ymsg: The fic is on you way, a preview any way.

BtT...

While insane now, Tucker is trying to redeem himself to bring back Nina. But the fact of how willing he is to go that far is where the 'death to Tucker' people would jump in. But I'll laugh by saying that a man in a postion like Tucker's will never get killed off, only suffering and pity by some.

But I'm surpised, Chuck Huber could pull the kind of voice Steven Jay Blum(Guilmon[D-Tamers], Brunk[WITCH]) & Andy Serkis (Gollum) pulled off. This is Raven(TT) all over again for me.
AlphonseRules
Guest, wuld you really say that he redeemed himself if he did bring Nina back successfully? Even if he remade Nina perfectly she would not be Nina, just a chimera that looks and acts like her. Also, it would not change the fact that he destroyed his own daughter.
CursedAnubis
Here I am again with some screenies of this episode smile.gif

I rewatched the episode and I noticed that Scar's brother gave Scar the same exact tattoo that he had when he was naked, hmm coincidence? Also, there's some freakish hair changing going on in this series... In Scar's flashbacks of him and his brother when he's thinking about Lust, Scar's hair appears brown, probably before the war. When he flashes back in this episode, his hair is brown on top and grey for the sideburns, and then a little bit later, his hair is the way it is now, white on top with grey sides. Maybe Scar's been playing with hair dye? Lol, sorry, it's just something that bugs me. I hope they explain the hair changes somewhere down the road.

Nina in the tube doesn't really look like Nina to me, maybe it's just the light blink.gif
If you guys want more specific screenies, just ask laugh.gif
ymsg
QUOTE(AlphonseRules @ Apr 5 2005, 09:14 PM)
Guest, wuld you really say that he redeemed himself if he did bring Nina back successfully?  Even if he remade Nina perfectly she would not be Nina, just a chimera that looks and acts like her.  Also, it would not change the fact that he destroyed his own daughter.
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I have to agree with you. He did destroy her, and that Chimera isn't the Nina we know or the Nina we remember. The Guest is right though (and thank you for the fic, btw.) Although I could never trust nor accept full redemption from Tucker, he does look lieke he's trying.

QUOTE
Here I am again with some screenies of this episode  If you guys want more specific screenies, just ask


I am so taking you up on that, lol. (I love the screenie of Nina... will draw it!)
Falling_Man
I personally think that is Tucker did revive Nina, that wouldn't be enough to redeem himself. Like revive his wife or something more...

@CursedAnubis: If you happened to notice, Scar's arm has a scar toward hi shoulder, like there was some kind of slash of something. I don't think Scar's brother put the array on Scar's arm. And that one flashback where Scar remember's that girl who looks like Envy. I think that's his brother standing next to her.
Stained_Wings
@ Falling Man: you mean lust. lust is who the flashback-woman looked like. we don't know what Envy's original form was, since he keeps changing it and has the palm-tree look cuz he thinks it's cute.

i have a question about this whole Nina thing: the "revived" version of Nina that tucker's making, is it just a chimera like he is, with an animal-like body and a human face? because that's what it looked like. Cursed Anubis, could you do a cap of the chimera-Nina so i have a better idea of it? i've watched the episode twice now and i still couldn't quite grasp the concept.
todd
what is the law of alchemy(please restate it for me)equivelent exchange
ymsg
QUOTE(todd @ Apr 6 2005, 01:29 PM)
what is the law of alchemy(please restate it for me)equivelent exchange
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Alchemy's first law is that of Equivalent Exchange. To gain, something of Equal Value must be lost.
CursedAnubis
Ahh so that explains the flashback... And here I was thinking "Why does Scar's brother have long hair there? And why does Scar compare his brother to Lust?" tongue.gif Lol I'm dense that way sometimes
AlphonseRules
This might be a spoiler (its just a thought I had)
[spoiler]Here's a thought that makes Shou a little more evil. He is trying to create a perfect recreation of Nina right. I don't think that he could do it with just animals, he needs humans to get the quality he is after. Therefor I suspect that he is using the men in the prison in which he resides to try to make "Nina".[/spoiler]
kungfustickman
I think it's pathetic that he tries to redeem himself. (well sort of) What gets me is that he's wearing his glasses upside down without having them fall off. (Oh no another mystery!)
Stained_Wings
QUOTE(kungfustickman @ Apr 7 2005, 12:52 AM)
I think it's pathetic that he tries to redeem himself.  (well sort of)  What gets me is that he's wearing his glasses upside down without having them fall off.  (Oh no another mystery!)
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what gets me is why he has his glasses at all! if you look, they're sort of fused with his head. it would make more sense for him to be glasses-less than to have them sort of attached to his head.
Guest
Actually, as it seems obivious, the remains of the NinaChimera must had been scrapped off the wall and taken to the 5th Lab, as Basque's trump card to get Tucker to cooperate. While Tucker could ressurect his daughter's body, he lacked the ability to make Nina fully human{As Beastman Chimeras almost bend the rules of human-revival}, but it would seem likely that everytime Tucker tries any transmuation related to his daughter, a bit of himself is taken and replaced with a part of the very creature he tried to create with his daughter and dog as key elements.

Hence Shou Tucker is anyother purserer of the Philopsher's Stone, as its power would be means to retore Nina. As for Mrs. Tucker, somehow that was never gaven any assumption of what happened to her in detail, only that Tucker made her a chimera and she straved herself soon after. How and why Tucker did that may never truely be known, but it's likely he made himself promise never to pull off such a stunt again. Only to break it thanks to Basque Gran.
dragonofchaos
um in the manga version shou died with his dauhter before they were taken
yannathedemonalchemist
i think that tucker should die for what he did to nina but that is just my opinion on the subject.....cya all soon
ymsg
Heh, me too. Stupid, lowlife insane jerk... poor Nina.
Maes_ Hughes
Well, Tucker payed for what he did...
The Thunder Alchemist
[Spoiler:]
A thought:
Barry knew what Scar's tatoo represents; Scar does powerful, incomplete alchemy w/ it;
Barry's is somehow related to creating the philsophers stone;
Scar's brother used a similiar tatoo to try to make the stone;
could Scar's tatoo be the alchemy circle for creating the stone? [Spoiler/]


Man, I am so psyched for next weeks ep after this awsome one, need more FMA, NOW!
ymsg
did he? Hm, I can't help but wish that he'd died in that shooting range... that's morbid, yeah, but dno't you think he deserved it? For doing what he did to someone as sweet as Nina?
Guest
ymsg: The manga had it easy for Tucker, who just dies without any true retribution and serves in flashback cameos. But in the anime, he becomes more important as the 'unredeemable wretch' cursed to forever suffer without rest.
*
In fact, it seemed apparent Tucker wanted to die for what he did to Nina, tempting Edward to take his life in #7 [Though Nina didn't want her father to die, or Ed to take a man's life]. But overtime, Tucker changed his sucide plan to a crazy plan to bring his daughter back, losing his own humanity in the process.

But Tucker seemed a nice guy compared to another pyscho Alchemist who creates Chimeras, Lute D. Saxophone{Sonata of Memories}.
ymsg
Heh... I'm glad he suffers. *is so evil! lol* Who's this other psycho alchemist?
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