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Full Version: Chapter 46 "Regular" Discussion Thread For First Time Readers (and Others)
Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > Fullmetal Alchemist Discussions > Fullmetal Alchemist Manga
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
CSakuraS
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 16 2005, 07:44 PM)
Yes, I REALIZED this is the manga section, but I doubt the anime made itself that much different from the manga.
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Um...no. The manga is WAY different. The Sins are different, how the homunculii are MADE are different, characters are different, the timeline is different, the Philosopher's Stone is not as important to the quest, Dante does not EXIST, and there is no alternate-universe-traveling.

From here on out, the anime and manga simply cannot be compared.


And emtee, I like your thoughts. :)
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Apr 16 2005, 11:38 PM)
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 16 2005, 07:44 PM)
Yes, I REALIZED this is the manga section, but I doubt the anime made itself that much different from the manga.
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Um...no. The manga is WAY different. The Sins are different, how the homunculii are MADE are different, characters are different, the timeline is different, the Philosopher's Stone is not as important to the quest, Dante does not EXIST, and there is no alternate-universe-traveling.

From here on out, the anime and manga simply cannot be compared.


And emtee, I like your thoughts. smile.gif
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*nods* i totaly agree. and i forgot about sloth's apperance. o.O;;; hmmm so yea anyways i wonder what Hoho-chan is exactly happy.gif he is weird.. i guess he is super man for now.. anyways Koneko... have you even read the Manga? notice all the new characters and the fact that Envy didn't kill Hughes? do those facts give you any clues... to the fact that the manga is completly different then the Anime in every way at this point...
CSakuraS
...but Envy DID kill Hughes. o.o;
Felidae
Um... Maybe father created a homunculus who looks like himself, i.e. the guy who visited Rizenbul?

However, my predictions usually turn out to be wrong, so you probably shouldn't listen to me. @__@


This chapter seemed so short. >__>
SweetJanie
But when Father released himself from that machine, which he healed imediatly, Hohenheim appeared soon after in Rizenbool. Well, why are the homunculi sins? Why was Father attached to a machine? Why was Greed killed in that cauldron? Here's what I think...

Hohenheim is an alchemist who always had this thing about the Philosopher Stone (remember what Izumi said about meeting a man who knew about it?). He studied and, when he found out a good theory, through his studies at home (Ed's only memories of his father, someone always with his nose stuck in a book), he decided to leave, maybe to return someday.

The Homunculi are sins because they're Father's sins. Maybe he even used the machine to 'extrat' them. That's probably the reason why Greed was killed in a cauldron who was connected by all those cables to the machine Father was attached to.

Think its okay for now, too lazy to write the rest of my theory... sleep.gif
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Apr 17 2005, 01:07 AM)
...but Envy DID kill Hughes.  o.o;
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o.o i meant in the manga its "Maria" and in the anime its "Glacia/Gracia/Glacier" you know? happy.gif:;;; i always just say Envy did it in the anime because i say "maria"
did it in the manga.
Fresh_Coffee
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 16 2005, 06:44 PM)
Yes, I REALIZED this is the manga section, but I doubt the anime made itself that much different from the manga.
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Have you even read the manga? Do you realize how entirely different it is? dry.gif I'm sorry if I sound harsh but you just sounded very stupid.
CSakuraS
QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Apr 17 2005, 10:06 AM)
o.o i meant in the manga its "Maria" and in the anime its "Glacia/Gracia/Glacier" you know? ^_^:;;; i always just say Envy did it in the anime because i say "maria"
did it in the manga.
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...Uh? I'm confused. o.o Envy killed Hughes almost the same way in both the anime and manga. He shape-shifted into Maria Ross and then became Gracia when he killed him.
Koneko_chan
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ Apr 17 2005, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 16 2005, 06:44 PM)
Yes, I REALIZED this is the manga section, but I doubt the anime made itself that much different from the manga.
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Have you even read the manga? Do you realize how entirely different it is? dry.gif I'm sorry if I sound harsh but you just sounded very stupid.
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That's not my point, but do you really think the manga characters would have different genders than those in the anime?
Fresh_Coffee
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 17 2005, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ Apr 17 2005, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 16 2005, 06:44 PM)
Yes, I REALIZED this is the manga section, but I doubt the anime made itself that much different from the manga.
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Have you even read the manga? Do you realize how entirely different it is? dry.gif I'm sorry if I sound harsh but you just sounded very stupid.
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That's not my point, but do you really think the manga characters would have different genders than those in the anime?
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What the hell are you talking about?
Umeko
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 17 2005, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ Apr 17 2005, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 16 2005, 06:44 PM)
Yes, I REALIZED this is the manga section, but I doubt the anime made itself that much different from the manga.
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Have you even read the manga? Do you realize how entirely different it is? <_< I'm sorry if I sound harsh but you just sounded very stupid.
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That's not my point, but do you really think the manga characters would have different genders than those in the anime?
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No offense, but you're just digging yourself deeper and deeper, making yourself sound more ignorant each time you comment.

Anime Sloth is female and manga Sloth is male (if homunculi even have sexes). That is an established, non-debatable fact.
AA battery
QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 16 2005, 06:24 PM)
Jeez you guys!!!

Pride is King Bradley and Sloth just hasn't made an appearance yet.

Somehow I doubt Hoenheim is a homunculus because I'm pretty sure homunculi can't create other homunculi.

Just use common sense.
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... WRATH = king bradley... stop mixing up manga with anime already!!

well can't totally rule out Al being Sloth tho... his body appearance can change right? *like how Barry's body is.... rotting, so I think it's possible that the "father" can do something to Al's body... well, since Al's body was once inside the gate, maybe that's the reason why the Father would want to modify Al's body into something cuz it was worthy of making itself to the gate??* Somehow this is making sense to me... noo, that ugly muscular thing *that looks like gluttony* can't be al... ;___; *someone shoot me... or ban me from coming before my finals are all over xD*

Edit: opss, didn't realize that there is another page for me to read... sorry-ish all

Kyo: Envy did turn into Glacia in manga and said "Don't you think this is a nice effect, Lieut. Hughes?" and didn't say that in anime actually... he just shoots after he turned into Glacia (in anime)

Another weird idea popped up: maybe Al was used as ingredient for the philosopher's stone core of Sloth ¬_¬;; *shoots self*

I want to believe that Hoho = Father but... I think Arakawa-sensei will surprise us somehow with that... cuz Hoho being Father is too... straight forward and as we all know FMA is filled with twists and turns...

also, about izumi mentioning that he met Hoho during her vacation @ Central... at that time, the Father should be still tied with that machinary so... yea... I will rule out Father = Hoho... (however, it is kinda possible that he is Pride? cuz he had pride for his sons in ch 47... but still, I hope Hoho isn't related to the Homunculus/Father... I hope he is something greater/more mysterious...)

QUOTE(emtee @ Apr 16 2005, 09:42 PM)
My thoughts on 'Will Winry shoot?'

I think she wants to and she would, but Ed and Al can't let her because that would be their biggest failure of all.  They've already messed up their own lives and want to pay now only with their own lives, to lose Winry (and they would lose her if she shot him, no one would arrest her probably but like Ed, she probably couldn't live being a murderer) would be the ultimate sign they've chosen the wrong path.  So I think that Ed will transmute either his hand or leg into a pole or something to knock the gun away from Winry.  He can't actually get there fast enough plus Scar's in the way, but he can knock the gun away using alchemey.  It's very symbolic too - the destruction of Scar would be prevented through creation.  Plus, it's Winry's automail so the hand that would save Scar would actually be her own.  So then his destruction would be prevented by her creation.
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I can't say how great you sounded in this first post you make in this forum... Love ths interpretation.
Koneko_chan
When did they show Sloth? I don't remember that!
Fresh_Coffee
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Apr 17 2005, 01:25 PM)

I want to believe that Hoho = Father but... I think Arakawa-sensei will surprise us somehow with that... cuz Hoho being Father is too... straight forward and as we all know FMA is filled with twists and turns...

also, about izumi mentioning that he met Hoho during her vacation @ Central... at that time, the Father should be still tied with that machinary so... yea... I will rule out Father = Hoho... (however, it is kinda possible that he is Pride? cuz he had pride for his sons in ch 47... but still, I hope Hoho isn't related to the Homunculus/Father... I hope he is something greater/more mysterious...)


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I agree, I think it's way too obivous for Hoho (I love that name) to be the father. My guest is he is Pride or has a bigger part in the plot.


QUOTE(Koneko_chan @ Apr 17 2005, 01:46 PM)
When did they show Sloth? I don't remember that!
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dry.gif Yes, that's why we've been saying he is a musclar man. sleep.gif
SweetJanie
QUOTE
also, about izumi mentioning that he met Hoho during her vacation @ Central... at that time, the Father should be still tied with that machinary so... yea... I will rule out Father = Hoho... (however, it is kinda possible that he is Pride? cuz he had pride for his sons in ch 47... but still, I hope Hoho isn't related to the Homunculus/Father... I hope he is something greater/more mysterious...)

But then again, he probably doesn't need to be attached to the machine all the time, maybe he just attached himself to get his sin back. He probably never made the philosopher stone and, if he ever tried, maybe what he got were the homonculi, but never the stone itself. So he keeps studing, maybe even in central library.... blink.gif

Hum...I'll see if I read it all again. Hohenheim might be in the crowd like Izumi and Mr Curtis were when Winry went to see Ed at the hospital.
CSakuraS
...I'm starting to get annoyed. So I made a chart with all seven Sins from both the manga AND anime to clear up any confusion. HERE YOU GO!

(Note: contains spoilers for the anime and manga)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/CSa...nDeadlySins.jpg

As you can see, Gluttony, Lust, Envy, and Greed are all the same, but Sloth, Wrath, and Pride are NOT. (Even though we haven't even seen Pride [only "heard"], we still know that he/she can't be Bradley because Bradley is already Wrath.)
Spectacal
Personally, this is what I think on the whole Winry shooting Scar thing:

If she doesn't shoot, it's too predictable. It's happened alot in stories where someone is about to shoot someone important...and they don't. For example, take the episode Created Human of the Anime. We all knew Ed wasn't going to kill those prisoners, just for both the sake of the storyline and because we know Ed isn't that kind of person. This brings me to Winry, who is a girl, currently sobbing her mind out, and has just cornered the person who probably killed her parents. Not to mention, her two best friends are right there. It's not very likely that she'll shoot.

BUT. This is the manga that has twisted our minds around it's little finger till we can't take no more. Just for the plot, Winry may end up shooting Scar because it'd be cool. Remember, she doesn't take hesitation to give Ed a concussion with her wrench. but that's different o_O

There. My prediction is out XD Please slaughter it horribly.
SweetJanie
Now that I find the page with Sloth you post the pic!! sad.gif

Anyway, if someone wants to see it's original context go here
Fresh_Coffee
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Apr 17 2005, 02:33 PM)
...I'm starting to get annoyed.  So I made a chart with all seven Sins from both the manga AND anime to clear up any confusion.  HERE YOU GO!

(Note: contains spoilers for the anime and manga)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/CSa...nDeadlySins.jpg

As you can see, Gluttony, Lust, Envy, and Greed are all the same, but Sloth, Wrath, and Pride are NOT.  (Even though we haven't even seen Pride [only "heard"], we still know that he/she can't be Bradley because Bradley is already Wrath.)
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Thank you! By the way you don't happen to be Da user? I think I've seen your username around.
Otoki Tomoe
Ah, they beat me to it. Be careful not to mix up the anime and the manga, as was already said.

By the way... when did Pride speak? I totally missed that. OMG what if it is Al? No, wait, that can't be because no one would be in it. So he can't be Pride, but what about Sloth? We haven't heard him speak yet. Maybe he doesn't speak... Crap, so it could be Al's body taken from the Gate. But how would he be a homunculus? Like Barry's body, Al's body would have reverted back to its most basic instincts--an 'animal' so to speak. But all the homunculus so far seem to be intelligent and independant. So he really can't be Sloth. Right? Right...?

Damn you, Armor-chan... you've gone and made me all scared and paranoid now. *cries* O_O All of these theories would sure make for a very interesting storyline, but still... poor Aru... What would that do to him? sad.gif

Anyway, Winry isn't going to shoot Scar. And if she does, the shot won't kill him. I doubt he'd be killed off so suddenly. Maybe he'll even be the one to take the gun from Winry's hand?
CSakuraS
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ Apr 17 2005, 03:59 PM)
Thank you! By the way you don't happen to be Da user? I think I've seen your username around.
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Uhhh yeah, I got a DA account a year or so ago but I've forgotten about it since then... o.o I don't even remember all the junk that I uploaded there, and it's not even anything really good; I'm surprised you've heard about me. Are you sure you're not mistaking me for someone else?

EDIT: ...In fact, I think I registered there under the name "GreyRose" so you probably DID mistake me for someone else. :/

QUOTE
By the way... when did Pride speak? I totally missed that.


http://groups.msn.com/FullMetalAlchemist/c...to&PhotoID=4900
http://groups.msn.com/FullMetalAlchemist/c...to&PhotoID=4901
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(SweetJanie @ Apr 17 2005, 04:38 PM)
Now that I find the page with Sloth you post the pic!! sad.gif

Anyway, if someone wants to see it's original context go here
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i need to re-read the entire manga so that i can pick up on things that i missed my first time through, such as in this pic they show Sloth and someone says "he's still working" well i noticed that he is chained up but i neglected to notice that it appears that her is digging a whole or tunnel with his own fists, where exactly is he digging to ?
Fresh_Coffee
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Apr 17 2005, 03:26 PM)
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ Apr 17 2005, 03:59 PM)
Thank you! By the way you don't happen to be Da user? I think I've seen your username around.
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Uhhh yeah, I got a DA account a year or so ago but I've forgotten about it since then... o.o I don't even remember all the junk that I uploaded there, and it's not even anything really good; I'm surprised you've heard about me. Are you sure you're not mistaking me for someone else?

EDIT: ...In fact, I think I registered there under the name "GreyRose" so you probably DID mistake me for someone else. :/

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Oh I see, I would like to see your stuff XD I'm sure it can't be bad as mine.
I should be writing my term pape
QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Apr 17 2005, 04:47 PM)
i need to re-read the entire manga so that i can pick up on things that i missed my first time through, such as in this pic they show Sloth and someone says "he's still working" well i noticed that he is chained up but i neglected to notice that it appears that her is digging a whole or tunnel with his own fists, where exactly is he digging to ?
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*Dramatic music* No one knows... ohmy.gif There in lies implyed mystery! biggrin.gif

...now, back to mythological symbolism... mad.gif mad.gif
AA battery
oh yea... *totally forgot about Pride was talking xD*

Otoki Tomoe: But then I think Barry mentioned that... the soul of a lab animal was binded to his body that's why it moves like an animal... (someone confirm plz... if I click into my FMA scans folder I won't be able to study anymore x.x)

so... I think it's possible to reconstruct & control Al's body and by putting a philosopher's stone in it... (argh, I am beginning to grow into this stupid theory x.x) however, I think armor!Al will still recognize that "Sloth" if they are close... just like how armor!Barry rocognized that it's his body (remember that we have never seen living!Barry's body so we can't say that his body never changed... his body could've changed after the lab animal's soul was binded to it.... episode 8!barry's body doesn't count... right? I really don't recall seeing living!Barry in manga)

Spectacal: Agree... ur prediction makes sense... not bad at all.

Wild guess: Maybe Roy & Riza, who had messed up enough with the phone line, decided to come and see how the boys were doing and saw that Winry was about to...! And Riza will stop her (with words, not just simply stopping her by hand)! dunno why I want to guess this but, I think it's gonna be Riza... Riza probably won't want Winry to walk the same path as she did... remembering that Winry was once unwilling to shake Riza's hand because Riza had a gun and probably did kill a lot of people... Riza probably won't want Winry to be feared by another person because of that... uhh, my brain is bessed up by Physics... whoever understood what I just said plz kindly expand on it.
Guest
QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Apr 17 2005, 06:12 PM)
Otoki Tomoe: But then I think Barry mentioned that... the soul of a lab animal was binded to his body that's why it moves like an animal... (someone confirm plz... if I click into my FMA scans folder I won't be able to study anymore x.x)
Yes, that's correct.

QUOTE(armor-alchemist @ Apr 17 2005, 06:12 PM)
so... I think it's possible to reconstruct & control Al's body and by putting a philosopher's stone in it... (argh, I am beginning to grow into this stupid theory x.x)
Ugh, that sounds too much like BusouRenkin. In fact, it is the same. If it becomes true, I'll puke. mad.gif

I think Al as Sloth isn't possible. Father and Sins all talk about opening the Gate. I think Father knows about the Gate and how if he opens it, it'll cost him. Since his plan started 200 odd years ago, it is likely he hasn't open the Gate in those years. Without opening the Gate, he cannot get Al's body. If anyone will be using Al's body, it will be that truth/god.
Grain_of_Rice
Hi, have been watching the boards for awhile, but first time comment-er.

Just replying to the where are Roy and Riza during this time?
Pure spectulation: Aren't they fairly close to where all the action is taking place? I think they may have spotted the light-stick/bomb from Ling (considering it was pretty bright) and are going to rush in to help in chapter 47... only to discover the Fuhrer's secret. o.O
Koneko_chan
Wow. I must have missed that chapter.

I'm soo sorry!

I feel like such a retard!
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(Grain_of_Rice @ Apr 17 2005, 09:21 PM)
Hi, have been watching the boards for awhile, but first time comment-er.

Just replying to the where are Roy and Riza during this time? 
Pure spectulation:  Aren't they fairly close to where all the action is taking place?  I think they may have spotted the light-stick/bomb from Ling (considering it was pretty bright) and are going to rush in to help in chapter 47... only to discover the Fuhrer's secret. o.O
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yea but they left us kinda hanging on the Ling/Lan Fan vs. Gluttony and Bradly fight. so i bet by this time Bradly is gone and its down to gluttony chasing them. maybe not though. *shrugs*
emtee
QUOTE
Wild guess: Maybe Roy & Riza, who had messed up enough with the phone line, decided to come and see how the boys were doing and saw that Winry was about to...! And Riza will stop her (with words, not just simply stopping her by hand)! dunno why I want to guess this but, I think it's gonna be Riza... Riza probably won't want Winry to walk the same path as she did... remembering that Winry was once unwilling to shake Riza's hand because Riza had a gun and probably did kill a lot of people... Riza probably won't want Winry to be feared by another person because of that... uhh, my brain is bessed up by Physics... whoever understood what I just said plz kindly expand on it.


It works somewhat if it's Riza who stops Winry because they do have a history together, but this seems to be more of a culmination of Winry-Al-Ed. They're even standing in a triangle there with Scar in the middle. It just seems that it would be more important for Ed and Al to stop her than for her to be corrected by an adult. Plus I think I've fallen in love with my own creation over destruction idea laugh.gif it's guess though and it's fun to do!

I don't know, it's also a good thought to show them that adult help is not actually bad and people care about them beyond each other.

I just hope she doesn't shoot. I'd rather have something more predictable happen that doesn't mess with the main characters.
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(emtee @ Apr 18 2005, 07:18 AM)
QUOTE
Wild guess: Maybe Roy & Riza, who had messed up enough with the phone line, decided to come and see how the boys were doing and saw that Winry was about to...! And Riza will stop her (with words, not just simply stopping her by hand)! dunno why I want to guess this but, I think it's gonna be Riza... Riza probably won't want Winry to walk the same path as she did... remembering that Winry was once unwilling to shake Riza's hand because Riza had a gun and probably did kill a lot of people... Riza probably won't want Winry to be feared by another person because of that... uhh, my brain is bessed up by Physics... whoever understood what I just said plz kindly expand on it.


It works somewhat if it's Riza who stops Winry because they do have a history together, but this seems to be more of a culmination of Winry-Al-Ed. They're even standing in a triangle there with Scar in the middle. It just seems that it would be more important for Ed and Al to stop her than for her to be corrected by an adult. Plus I think I've fallen in love with my own creation over destruction idea laugh.gif it's guess though and it's fun to do!

I don't know, it's also a good thought to show them that adult help is not actually bad and people care about them beyond each other.

I just hope she doesn't shoot. I'd rather have something more predictable happen that doesn't mess with the main characters.
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i dont like predictablity you know what i mean? like i can go to a movie and predict it or watch an anime and predict it... i think the one feature that keeps me soo involved in this manga is that no matter what i think or predict it always surprises me. i think they only thing that bothers me about Winry Shooting scar is that they would be a really lame way for scar to die... you know that i mean? an entire army cant stop him but one single girl thats about 15 can kill him? so i hope if she shoots him then she doesn't kill him, and if she doesn't shoot him then its a very dramatic scene.
Fresh_Coffee
*cough* I know where on the subject of Winry will she shoot or not but I like to bring up the topic of Lan fan and Ling. Is it me or does this couple sorta of remind you of Royai? I mean Lan fan seems to want to protect Ling no matter what and were not sure of his feelings towards her or maybe I'm just paranoid.
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ Apr 18 2005, 04:25 PM)
*cough* I know where on the subject of Winry will she shoort or not but I like to bring up the topic of Lan fan and Ling. Is it me or does this couple sorta of remind you of Royai? I mean Lan fan seems to want to protect Ling no matter what and were not sure of his feelings towards her or maybe I'm just paranoid.
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*nods* thats a very good point but how are we sure that Lan Fan WANTS to protect Ling? you know what i mean? he's a prince and shes his body guard and thats her job. i'm sure she gets paid to put his life on the line for Ling.
Fresh_Coffee
QUOTE(Kyo_Umerio @ Apr 18 2005, 02:38 PM)
QUOTE(Fresh_Coffee @ Apr 18 2005, 04:25 PM)
*cough* I know where on the subject of Winry will she shoot or not but I like to bring up the topic of Lan fan and Ling. Is it me or does this couple sorta of remind you of Royai? I mean Lan fan seems to want to protect Ling no matter what and were not sure of his feelings towards her or maybe I'm just paranoid.
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*nods* thats a very good point but how are we sure that Lan Fan WANTS to protect Ling? you know what i mean? he's a prince and shes his body guard and thats her job. i'm sure she gets paid to put his life on the line for Ling.
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Somehow I doubt that Lan fan is just doing it for the "money" I think she really cares for him and he obivously has an attachement towards her well some sort. Telling her to stop and saving her. sleep.gif *goes into girly mode*
AA battery
Fresh_Coffee: but LanFan and Ling are pretty much based on Chinese people. In the old days, servants are very very loyal to their masters (it's like, you bought me to be your servant, my life is pretty much yours) so... I think it's more about loyalty between those two than roiai. *notices that Riza does scream at Roy and LanFan would never dare to because Ling is a prince of the East*

<--- this idiot just figured out why Sloth can't be Al... Greed knows about Sloth so that means Sloth has been there for hundreds of years... stupid me >v<;;
Senefen
Thank God we've got that established.

Al cant be sloth
1. Al would have to suddenly have to turn into a tall, black haired, incredible hulk
2. Greed knew about sloth and he hadnt been seen by the others for years (60ish?)

Al's body is sitting behind the gate - taking 1/2 of whatever Ed Eats, sleeps and grows biggrin.gif. <- this is unconfirmed but its what Ed and Al are thinking now.

LanFan, as well as respecting Ling as a person and royalty probably also realises he is the only hope for their tribe. She's doing her part just as he is regardless of her personal feelings for him

And everyone PLEASE PLEASE dont make anime references here. The story split off majorly at the 5th Lab and the Death of Greed especialy. You cant call on anything in the anime to explain anything in the manga especialy after those points.
The anime didnt have Ling, Al's body alive behind the gate, Scar killing Winry's parents, Hoho getting shot up and nothing happening O.o
The manga didnt have Sloth as Trisha, Dante, Roy killing Winry's parents and a bunch of other stuff biggrin.gif (only seen first 29 of the anime)
Kyo_Umerio
QUOTE(Senefen @ Apr 18 2005, 07:50 PM)
Thank God we've got that established.

Al cant be sloth
1. Al would have to suddenly have to turn into a tall, black haired, incredible hulk
2. Greed knew about sloth and he hadnt been seen by the others for years (60ish?)

Al's body is sitting behind the gate - taking 1/2 of whatever Ed Eats, sleeps and grows biggrin.gif. <- this is unconfirmed but its what Ed and Al are thinking now.

LanFan, as well as respecting Ling as a person and royalty probably also realises he is the only hope for their tribe. She's doing her part just as he is regardless of her personal feelings for him

And everyone PLEASE PLEASE dont make anime references here. The story split off majorly at the 5th Lab and the Death of Greed especialy. You cant call on anything in the anime to explain anything in the manga especialy after those points.
The anime didnt have Ling, Al's body alive behind the gate, Scar killing Winry's parents, Hoho getting shot up and nothing happening O.o
The manga didnt have Sloth as Trisha, Dante, Roy killing Winry's parents and a bunch of other stuff biggrin.gif (only seen first 29 of the anime)
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not to mention theres a picture of sloth in the manga... *points* i think its chapter 31 or something ~_~ i dont remember.. but CSakuraS made a chart.... gah... this is her chart.
Otoki Tomoe
CsakuraS: Thanks! I’d totally forgotten about that part. It occurs to me just now that Pride is speaking into their minds, isn’t he? (I use “he” loosely since we don’t really know who/what Pride is yet). Poor Ling looked pretty confused. He probably thought Envy was talking to himself. tongue.gif

Kyo Umerio: But wouldn’t it be sort of symbolic that an innocent 15-year old girl would bring down a man that an entire army can’t touch? If she did shoot him, it would essentially be his own vengeful path coming back to haunt him (this is, of course, assuming that he actually did kill Winry’s parents—of which I have my doubts). This is why I think it'll be Scar who stops Winry from shooting. (Although I like the idea of Riza stopping her, too).

QUOTE
If anyone will be using Al's body, it will be that truth/god.

I thought this at first, too, but after having a long and interesting discussion with my better half—who just finished reading the manga up to this point, yay!—I’m rethinking my theory.

Everyone who saw the Gate saw that eyeball with all the arm-thingies. But only Edward saw Truth, right? Izumi (so far that we know) didn’t see it, nor did Alphonse when he rediscovered those memories. Also, Truth now has Ed’s limbs (and his underwear apparently, lol), so it’s possible that Truth is somehow tied to Ed only. He did point at Ed and say, “I’m you.” (Of course, that could have been meant metaphorically—it’s a shame that so much is lost in translation).

Or: Could it be that Truth is Pride? I mean, we haven’t seen him yet and if anyone has the means to get to Al’s body, it’s Truth. And since (I think) he was speaking to Envy in his mind, it could mean that he's still on the other side of the Gate. Keeping to the manga, we now know how homunculi are made/born/whatever but we don’t know if they can cross the Gate. Maybe one of them did? Plus, the styles of Pride’s speech bubbles and Truth’s speech bubbles are the same. tongue.gif Also, did anyone else notice that he smiles just like Gluttony? Perhaps the Ultimate Truth (a very homunculus name, ne?) is the amalgamation of all Sin? And maybe Father is trying to open the Gate to let it out?

Armor-chan: You’re not an idiot! It was a great theory and it made sense in a lot of ways. One being that that literal definition of Sloth could describe Al at that point (inactivity in the face of virtue—Alphonse never said anything to stop Edward from transmuting their mother, whether he knew it was wrong or not). You had me worried, but I hadn't thought about the timeline. happy.gif I still wonder, though: Where is Al's body and if it's not on the other side of the gate, will it come back for him like Barry's did? Man… if all the crap that’s happened to the Elrics hasn’t severely messed them up yet, that would probably do it.
SweetJanie
QUOTE
Everyone who saw the Gate saw that eyeball with all the arm-thingies. But only Edward saw Truth, right? Izumi (so far that we know) didn’t see it, nor did Alphonse when he rediscovered those memories.

That's not true!!
http://www.readmanga.com/view.php?currtitl...chap=033&img=32
http://www.readmanga.com/view.php?currtitl...chap=030&img=33
http://www.readmanga.com/view.php?currtitl...chap=025&img=18


Greed says here that you can make an homonculus, which is totally agaisnt what's in the anime, so Al CAN'T be an homonculus.
CSakuraS
QUOTE
CsakuraS: Thanks! I’d totally forgotten about that part. It occurs to me just now that Pride is speaking into their minds, isn’t he? (I use “he” loosely since we don’t really know who/what Pride is yet). Poor Ling looked pretty confused. He probably thought Envy was talking to himself. :P


Yeah, I was thinking it was some sort of telepathic thing...

QUOTE
Plus, the styles of Pride’s speech bubbles and Truth’s speech bubbles are the same. :P Also, did anyone else notice that he smiles just like Gluttony? Perhaps the Ultimate Truth (a very homunculus name, ne?) is the amalgamation  of all Sin? And maybe Father is trying to open the Gate to let it out?


I also noticed that about the speech bubbles. And since Truth wasn't speaking to Ed physically (with a mouth), then that is already one instance in which we've seen a form of telepathy in the manga... And how the Truth described itself was very...prideful. And Pride is the greatest sin. But of course if it really IS God or a higher being then, well, of course it would be proud. XD

QUOTE
I still wonder, though: Where is Al's body and if it's not on the other side of the gate, will it come back for him like Barry's did? Man… if all the crap that’s happened to the Elrics hasn’t severely messed them up yet, that would probably do it.


Creepy...but heh, it would sure save them the trouble of going in and pulling it out themselves.
Sensenic
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Apr 19 2005, 08:57 PM)
QUOTE
CsakuraS: Thanks! I’d totally forgotten about that part. It occurs to me just now that Pride is speaking into their minds, isn’t he? (I use “he” loosely since we don’t really know who/what Pride is yet). Poor Ling looked pretty confused. He probably thought Envy was talking to himself. tongue.gif


Yeah, I was thinking it was some sort of telepathic thing...
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Me, I have my doubts... First, I've to say that both Lin and Lanfan do "hear" Pride, as they all four react at the same time, and the Xing pair look UP, not to the Homunculi.
My bet is that he/she/it somehow can "project" its own voice to be heard wherever. But that's just my hypothesis. At least, in case it's telepathy, it'd be "broadcast" telepathy, no? wink.gif
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Apr 19 2005, 08:57 PM)
QUOTE
Plus, the styles of Pride’s speech bubbles and Truth’s speech bubbles are the same. tongue.gif Also, did anyone else notice that he smiles just like Gluttony? Perhaps the Ultimate Truth (a very homunculus name, ne?) is the amalgamation  of all Sin? And maybe Father is trying to open the Gate to let it out?


I also noticed that about the speech bubbles. And since Truth wasn't speaking to Ed physically (with a mouth), then that is already one instance in which we've seen a form of telepathy in the manga... And how the Truth described itself was very...prideful. And Pride is the greatest sin. But of course if it really IS God or a higher being then, well, of course it would be proud. XD
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I'd like it better myself if Truth was Truth, the personification of all knowledge whatsoever, and Pride was Pride, another homunculus (more powerful, blah, blah...). It just wouldn't feel "right" or "coherent" otherwise to me.

I mean (I really do suck at expressing my thoughts sad.gif )... Keep in mind that Homunculi in the manga are bodies "built" around a Philosopher's Stone, while Truth acts like he is, that, some kind of god, he doesn't seem to be just a craftwork happy.gif
Otoki Tomoe
QUOTE(SweetJanie @ Apr 19 2005, 01:54 PM)
QUOTE
Everyone who saw the Gate saw that eyeball with all the arm-thingies. But only Edward saw Truth, right? Izumi (so far that we know) didn’t see it, nor did Alphonse when he rediscovered those memories.

That's not true!!
http://www.readmanga.com/view.php?currtitl...chap=033&img=32
http://www.readmanga.com/view.php?currtitl...chap=030&img=33
http://www.readmanga.com/view.php?currtitl...chap=025&img=18


Greed says here that you can make an homonculus, which is totally agaisnt what's in the anime, so Al CAN'T be an homonculus.
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Nowhere in those pages does Al or Izumi say that they saw Truth (Truth=the boything that took Edo's limbs). They do say that they saw the eyeball thingy with all the arms (wth do we call that thing, anyway?), but not Truth. That's what led me to believe that Truth either had something to do with Edward alone, or Truth is a homunculus/sin of his own.

And please, please don’t mix up the manga with the anime. They are two totally different creatures. But for the sake of friendly argument, wouldn't it still be possible to make a homunculus out of Al's body? They said that a homunculus is a body created around a stone, but what if you put the stone into an already existing body that lacks its soul? Or maybe that's how it's done anyway and I'm just messing up the translation. It's an interesting thought.
QUOTE(Sensenic @ Apr 19 2005, 02:48 PM)
QUOTE(CSakuraS @ Apr 19 2005, 08:57 PM)
QUOTE
CsakuraS: Thanks! I’d totally forgotten about that part. It occurs to me just now that Pride is speaking into their minds, isn’t he? (I use “he” loosely since we don’t really know who/what Pride is yet). Poor Ling looked pretty confused. He probably thought Envy was talking to himself. tongue.gif

Yeah, I was thinking it was some sort of telepathic thing...
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Me, I have my doubts... First, I've to say that both Lin and Lanfan do "hear" Pride, as they all four react at the same time, and the Xing pair look UP, not to the Homunculi.
My bet is that he/she/it somehow can "project" its own voice to be heard wherever. But that's just my hypothesis. At least, in case it's telepathy, it'd be "broadcast" telepathy, no? wink.gif
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((Looks back over her issues)) Yes, Ling and company do look up and around and not at the homunculus. Again, further proof of this ‘telepathy’ theory of ours. happy.gif

By the way, does anyone know how long the manga is projected to run? I hope it won’t end too soon because the story is so intriguing and brings up so many questions. I wish I could write a story this captivating.
Senefen
QUOTE
And Pride is the greatest sin. But of course if it really IS God or a higher being then, well, of course it would be proud. XD
Cant remember where I heard this but not only is pride the greatest sin it is the first sin, from which all others come. Also it is the only sin you can not defeat. If you are proud any good actions you do are for the glorification of yourself, not for those who your good actions will help.

I dont think anyone is in Al's body. Remember what Ed said? People are in 3 parts. Al's soul is in the armour, his body is behind the gate, his mind (thoughts and memories) are still in his brain in his body behind the gate. Al can store memories etc as his soul is liked to his mind. Surely he would notice if there was another mind in his body. It would be a bit crowded O.o.

The passage fee is paid only when you leave the gate. As Al did not pay the price he never saw the truth person (al never returned from the gate, when his soul was forcfuly dragged out Ed paid the price). Ed saw him when he returned from the gate and lost his leg, though he did not see him when he dragged Al's soul out, when he lost his leg he saw "truth" taking it, with his arm he hadnt just returned from the gate thus did not "see" him. As Izumi was able to get out of the gate by herself she sould have seen the Truth person, though she doesnt mention it. Perhaps there is a different "Truth" for every person. Ed's took his arm and leg, Izumi's took her organs and Al is yet to meet his
Cere
Al did see Truth. When he first recovers his memories of that time (chapter 30, page 24-25), the top right image is of Truth. Also in chapter 44 page 22, Al says that "that guy was saying it was a 'passage fee'." And same chapter, page 31, Izumi makes reference to Truth, so it seems that she's seen him/her, too.

As for Pride, I think that Pride is Father. I don't have much evidence for this, except that the Homunculi refer to "Father" only when no other people are around (as far as I can remember) and the only time we've heard "Pride" was when Ling and Lan Fan were there. It makes sense considering the traditional relationship of Pride to the other sins.
AA battery
got it, cere... right over here of Al seeing the "truth"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/Alp...FMA_030_023.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/Alp...FMA_030_024.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/Alp...FMA_030_025.jpg

It's true that they never specify about Izumi but really, I would get kinda bored to see another people's experience in the gate as Izumi, altho critically important, is not a protagonist like Ed and Al *so not likely Arakawa-sensei will do another of those messed up detailed page just for Izumi*
emtee
QUOTE(Senefen @ Apr 19 2005, 09:25 PM)
The passage fee is paid only when you leave the gate.



I love it! Not an entrance fee, an exit fee. The price isn't getting in, it's getting out. Oh! Like trouble. I never thought of that before since I'd seen it called an "entrance fee" somwehere. But then...does that mean they can't get Al's body back?
Otoki Tomoe
Ah! I'm stupid... *facepalms* Hmm... That changes a lot of what I think now. There is so much to go back over and read, and some of what I have are crappy scanlationss that are about this [ ] big so apparently I've missed a few important things. >.<
confused guest
Sorry for being such a newbie, but I've never used livejournal before. I managed to register and find the community, but I can't find the manga chapter tongue.gif . Can someone help me out please? Thanks.
AA battery
confused guest: Since it was posted THAT long ago... it probably got pushed back ten pages of so (in that LJ community) already xD
darkmoon
QUOTE(confused guest @ Apr 20 2005, 11:48 AM)
Sorry for being such a newbie, but I've never used livejournal before. I managed to register and find the community, but I can't find the manga chapter tongue.gif .  Can someone help me out please? Thanks.
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You can find the link on the first page of that topic wink.gif

On LJ you can also go to "memories" (on the right top of the page) and then "manga", you should be able to find the topic you're loonking for.

Anyway here's the link : Chapter 46
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