I agree there. It's kind of lame and sort of childish to look up to fictional characters, but I don't think you can get any more amazing than Riza. I really think she's someone girls should look up to because she's every bit the strong, confident, kick-a** woman who can be as feminine as she is epic. And no matter what, even after all she's been through with Roy, she doesn't break. And it's not like she sticks with him because he asked her to or she can't function on her own - she really, honestly, picked that path for herself and she's strong enough to see it through to the very end. That's what I really admire about her, and I have no qualms in saying outright that she is one of my role models.

I also agree with what Turdaewen said: there is no way in all hell Royai "isn't there" - for people who have been through as much as Roy and Riza, it's only reasonable that they're not big on public displays of affection - heck - it's Roy and Riza; as if they would act any way else. They've lived their entire lives speaking in codes and through subtle gestures, but just because it's not obvious to people from a Western culture, that doesn't mean that it's "not there". That said, Arakawa's dropped too many hints for us, and some of them were pretty darn obvious anyway. Whether there's actually something physically happening between them or not, they still hold torches for each other - that much, I think, we can be sure of.

@ Dark winds and Lisa Mustang:

Both videos amuse me to no end. Thanks so much for sharing!! I just wish I could understand it >.<

The translation to what it could possibly be it's:

it's not what they actually said but it's an idea:

Roy: So everything's over now...
Riza (no idea of what she said xD) but she said something related to 'dangerous'
Roy: Hey lt...
Riza: What's up ?
Roy: Shall we go to somewhere ?
Riza: Colonel...
Barry: Miss!!!
Riza: Barry!
Barry: I saw your battle! You were as awesome as always miss!
Riza: Colonel, let's go!
Barry: What? You are so mean!
Riza: I'm busy with colonel right now
Barry (again, no idea)
Then a few girls come screaming Riza's name
Barry: So you have so many fans
Riza: Colonel, sorry, i have to run
Roy: S-sure
Again fans screaming Riza's name and in the end a guy screams riza's name and roy and barry get pissed off. Riza's fans run over Barry and he screams: You damn! Miss!!!
Roy: Well... i guess i'll try next time .-.

Awww sweet again, it's not what they said i just translated what i heard hahaha
and the video about Romeo and Juliet, it's a play and what they said is something like: Roy asks riza's name, she introduce herself, and so they got in love but winry is in love with roy so riza says that their love is impossible so they make something like that about romeo and juliet and then ed's the evil bean sprout midget hahaha and he screams and he kills roy and something like that

^ *cough* somewhere on this thread (or may be on the thread for that game in FMA Game forum) is my full translation of that scene that I posted when that game first came out. If many of you want the full translation, someone please volunteer your time and look for my translation, or if Nagareboshi comes around, she can probably give her help with the translation.

...I can't go looking for it nor can I translate that one again now, because electricity is out right now around here because of the major snow/cold storm we're having in the U.S. now, and I'm using my precious laptop battery power.

By the way, SamusTheHunter, Puka-chan, Lisamustang, and all other new people, WELCOME to our board, and welcome to the "Royai" thread, the longest and the most active character discussion thread on our board! Hope you enjoy posting here!

Of course we will have a great time posting over here i love royai! is awesome is just fantastic and it's not like any other anime pairing where the boy is an idiot (i was gonna say another word haha) and the girl hates him but then, he's a hero and saves her and she's so grateful that she falls in love with him and then they hate each other again but they have some romantic scenes and in the end they are a cannon pairing
Royai's like... just the most perfect pairing on anime world so Royai means just to trust your partner and that loyalty that we can see when they are together is just perfect, they need no romantic scenes to know what they feel for each other
hope u understand what i mean

I found Tombow's translation of the Royai scene at the end of Dream Carnival Enjoy!

The Royai ending scene
Roy: "Ah.. finally, it's all done..."
Riza:　"That was quite a challenge to survive against those fine opponents."
Roy: "Well, Lieutenant?"
Riza: "What is it, sir?"
Roy: "Do you think you have a better opinion of me after this?"
Riza: "Colonel..."
Barry: "SISTAH ...~~!!" (= sister...misspelling was intentional XD)
Riza:"Barry?!"
Barry: "I've watched you fight today. Sister, you were amazing! I'm in love with you all over again."

*Roy very pissed off*
Riza: "Shall we go, Colonel?!"
Barry: "Why?!" "What an cold treatment."
Riza: "Colonel and I are very tired now. Could you leave me alone today?"
Barry: "All right. But, if you walk that way, you're not going to get any rest."
Girl A: "There she is!! "Ms. Riza~~~!!"
Girl B: "KyAhhhhh ~~~!! Lieutenant Hawkeye~~~!!!"
Girl C: "Dear miss Riza~~~!!!"
Barry: "The sister's fans have been waiting to get your attention there."
Riza: "Co..Colonel! Excuse me, i have to run!!"
Roy:　"Ah, ah."
RizaFans： "Please, wait~~~!!!"
　　　　："Ms Riza~~~!!!"
　　　　："Give me your stern look!!!"
　　　　："I wanna see it, too~~~!!!"

*Riza’s fans chase after Riza*
Barry: "Gah! Get out of my way!! SISTAH~!"
Roy:　"Oh, it's a full moon tonight..."
Roy: : "I guess I will go home and go to bed."

Thank you so much for the translation
Actually,I want you to post the translation of "Romeo and Juliet" scene from Daughter of the Dusk..I can't find the translation
Hope you can help me to translate it or PM me the link of the translation,Thank you.

My japanese friend told me that roy invited riza to hang out somewhere but anyway, it's quite nice !!

^ Thank you so much, Nagareboshi for finding it! *hugs*
Gahaha, that's a rather choppy translation of mine, but I guess it will do. XDD



No, he doesn't (unless your friend hears/sees something I don't in that clip) By the way, if your Japanese friend feels like it, please ask your friend to do the translation of "Romeo & Juliet" (by Roy and Riza) scene in Daughter of the Dusk game!! (I'm already so backed up with tons of translations waiting to be done for the board, and honestly that scene is so over the top and IMO completely out of characters that it's not very pleasant for me to do that translation, and hence I would rather avoid doing it if I can. )

lol

You're right, Tombow! ^^ These games are so much fanservice it makes my hair puff. O.o

There's so many stuff I would rather see the translation... Things that can actually clarify more about the characters and everything.
As fun it might be to discover what they're saying, there's a bunch of more relevant things to translate first ^^

Well he's kinda busy with his orchestra but i'll try !

You're welcome! *hugs back*

--------

I found this picture of Riza that I thought was pretty cool http://www.animepaper.net/art/175507/burning
(Possible spoilers if you don't know what's on Riza's back)

i want to show u the most awesome royai ''amv'' i've seen before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIU_5TySLUk

a great parody of Mr. and Ms. Smith

WOW!!
It's really awesome for royai amv..thanks for sharing it Lisamustang..*hugs*

Wow--we've been quiet for a while!

So, to get discussion going again, a new Royai Question of the Week: What sports do you think Roy and Riza would most enjoy? (As long as you can justify calling it a sport, I won't question your choice. )

For Roy, I'd say... American flag football. No, seriously: hear me out, please! It's a fairly team-oriented sport, and it can have the sort of sneak attack element Roy seems to prefer. And flag football is generally more of an informal thing, which I just think he'd like a little bit better.

Riza seems to be a little more solitary, so I can imagine her as someone who would enjoy running (even as part of a relay team)--something track-and-field-related.

I would have done something pertaining to Valentine's Day, but 1) honestly, I've got nothing, (if the question I used doesn't make that completely obvious) and 2) that would just be so cheesy if I did.

Curling!!

Nah, seriously...

Riza: Sport shooting. XDD I'm sure she's good at it, and she may enjoy it more in a setting where shooting doesn't involve physically hurting anyone.

Roy: Football (not American Football, but Soccer). He may enjoy playing a sport that does not involve using his fingers. xp
Also, for some reason I think he may be good at (and enjoy competing in) Judo, although I don't know why. XD

Have a happy Royai Valentine's Day, everyone!

I think Riza would awesome at pretty much anything involving aim, but I kind of see her as an archery person most. For Roy... dance sport hahaha no xD I dunno, I just don't see him as a sporty person xD I think he'd be more of a team player anyway. I think maybe basketball? *shrug*

I can see Riza doing something like archery/sports shooting, too. But for some reason I could also seeing her doing sports aerobics/gymnastics. Roy...football/soccer is a good idea; anything team orientated as others have mentioned already.

i'd love to see roy practising Tennis or Snowboarding hahaha, and speaking about Riza... HUNTING lol archery, something like that hahahaha
and... in another way... i can see roy dacing like korean guys, for example, Bigbang, TVXQ or SHINee Lol!!!! damn sexy though

Haha! If Roy would dance, he would definitely dance in a group like that! (Just picture him dancing "Mirotic"... *nosebleed*) But I could see Roy and Riza taking up some kind of dancing together - ballroom or tango?

By herself, Riza would be really great at archery! A break from her normal gun I suppose. Roy could do any kind of martial arts well, and any team sport too - as long as he's the leader! (I think Roy would really get into his sports...)

For some reason I can't see Roy playing football as easily as I can the other sports mentioned. It's such a, like, hardcore physical sport, running into people and such. Perhaps that's because we don't see him doing much physical combat (compared to Ed, who is 100% physical combat, Roy just runs around and snaps at things)

In which case, I guess dance is a good option, since with all that snapping...he must now how to keep a beat

Perhaps a more playful, less serious version of football where people don't try to kill each other. I don't know all that much about the sport so I shouldn't be talking right now.

I can see Riza as an archer as mentioned above (never would have thought of that, but I think that's a perfect idea) and also as a runner, perhaps, because it's such a quiet, personal way to work off stress.

I said flag football! Not tackle football! Not totally different, but much less contact-oriented!

And Roy and Riza ballroom dancing? Oooh, let me at it! I would love to see that! The amount of trust and unspoken communication and chemistry they have, I can see this so clearly, and it is amazing.

I was joking when I said dance sport xD But speaking of ballroom dancing, ballroom-dancing!royai happens in my headcanon because this fic: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6324584/1/Strictly_Ballroom by Kitsune Moonstar.

In any other universe, it'd totally happen, especially with the trust and chemistry they have with each other. Heck - I like to think Roy can ballroom dance in canon and Riza just happens to be his most consistent partner

These are comments by Arakawa-sensei and written on the drawings done by her for GanGan "Don't Forget FMA!" event and you can see all these drawings with her comments posted by bob_fish on LiveJournal here.

The following is a rough translation of what she said on her "Roy & the Gang" drawing, translated and posted by crystal_tiara on her LiveJournal page:


<Note by Tombow: I checked Arakawa-sensei's original comment, and she was clearly referring to ALL of the Roy gang, and NOT just Roy and Riza. And, to note further, the word "lover" was NOT used in referring to Roy and Riza, but she was saying that their (among Roy and the gang, not just between Roy and Riza) bond among themselves is as strong as their bonds to their own families, their loved ones, etc. >

I, literally, squealed with glee when I read this.
Original post here.



<Added my note as PREVENTION from anyone getting any false impression. xp Sorry guys for bursting the bubble. ^^ ~ Tombow
By the way, welcome to our board, and WELCOME to Royai thread, lollybuddy92! >

^ Thank you so much for sharing this, lollybuddy92, and WELCOME to our board, and Royai thread!!

All right, before anyone would post and ask... here is my quick translation of Arakawa-sensei's comment on her "Roy Team" drawing:
(Note by Tombow... yes, that's Arakawa-sensei who is "hoping," and by the way, you all know "520 sens Promise" and what "Ed paying back 520 sens" means, right? ^^)

I tried to make it as close to what's posted by crystal_tiara on her LiveJournal page, as posted by lollybuddy92 above, as it is mostly a very good translation, IMO, with some minor correction. ^^ (thank you, crystal_tiara! )


Bottom Line: No, Arakawa-sensei didn't say, nor hinted anything about Royai being canon in her comment, but it's still a nice comment by her about Roy and his team.

Also, if anyone would like to join discussions on the rest of her comments on these drawings, you can go to our GanGan "Don't Forget FMA" thread, where Michiyo- has posted pics of those drawings with Arakawa-sensei's comments, on her Nov. 18 post.

I had a feeling that she was referring to the whole team when I first saw the original post earlier; it wouldn't have made sense for Arakawa to talk about just Roy and Riza when the whole crew were in that image. But thank you for taking the time to clear it up further, Tombow! Everyone will definitely appreciate it! I love how she describes the bond they all share.

And welcome to the forum and the Royai thread, lollybuddy92! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact us!

"Koibito" ?... Ahhh... We fought over the meaning of this word in another fandom of mine. It can be very well translated as "loved one"... but it has also a romantic connotation I think (japanese people can use it when they're talking about their boyfriend/girlfriend). So, I don't know... Was Arakawa talking about the whole gang or Roy and Riza specifically here ?
About Roy or Riza and sports... when you proposed Roy dancing like korean guys Lisamustang, it reminded me of this very funny (disturbingly funny) video of Roy (and Hughes... ah ah...) dancing to Tsuki No Uragawa : http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=FR&hl=...p;v=HRm2KJaQEuE

@RadicalDreamer - In case some might have not noticed my note there, allow me to repeat it here again.

Note by Tombow: I checked Arakawa-sensei's original comment, and she was clearly referring to ALL of the Roy gang, and NOT just Roy and Riza. And, to note further, the word "lover" was NOT used in referring to Roy and Riza, but she was saying that their (among Roy and the gang, not just between Roy and Riza) bond among themselves is as strong as their bonds to their own families, their loved ones, etc.


--

By the way, that vid of Roy dancing is soo funny!!

I just watched that video and it's one of the most disturbing things I've ever watched...yet it's so freaking funny. And I've always loved that image song. Thanks for sharing, RadicalDreamer. xD

OMG! I think my brain is permanently damaged by that video. lol Really funny. ^^

And I get what you're trying to say, Tombow... even because, if that was really the case (if Arakawa was actually insinuating something between Roy and Riza) Japanese fans would be in a uproar for some time, now (since that comment by Arakawa has been on for quite a while).
Any sort of "big revelation" in relations to FMA travel quickly and we would know about it already, cause people would be talking about it. ^^ Not trying to say Arakawa doesn't consider Royai to be cannon, here (and I do believe she still may surprise her in that sense in the future), but just that she hasn't really said anything in regards to that just yet, and more over, I think she wouldn't just "slip it out" in a note like that... If she was to reveal something, she would make a big deal out of it. lol

(Warning - series final spoilers ahead!)
mmmm i do not trust in Arakawa anymore (about royai, of course), no royai in the ending, not even a single clue of what happened with them. I mean, we had a little about their future as military people, but not as normal people, we didnt know if they got on a little date or some sort of dialogue between them or something u know.
But i knew that she will make an artbook or something like that where she will say everything right ? then i hope to hear some good royai news.

(Warning - series final spoilers ahead!)
Actually, I never imagined there would be any Royai at the end of FMA in the first place... So, I wasn't exactly disappointed, cause I didn't expect anything. In fact, for me, if she showed them on a date, for exemple, than I would be disappointed in Arakawa!! lol

I was expecting tops to show Riza as the First Lady when Roy became Führer, like standing next to Roy in similar ways to Mrs. Bradley did with Wrath... but, since Roy hasn't become Führer yet, there would be senseless, too. XD Anything more than that would have the risk of being completely OOC, as most fanfics of "Roy and Riza get together" seem to me. Unlike Ed and Winry, Roy and Riza are VERY reserved about their feelings and anything in the shape of EdWin's ending would be very unfitting, in my view.

So, unlike many Royai fans, I was actually pretty surprised in a good way by the manga's end. And by "in a good way" I mean I was concerned the end could mess up Royai by making it shabby or shallow, but I'm glad she didn't! And, for me, that's good enough. And true enough to Arakawa's and the couple's ways.


So, for me, it's not a matter of "trusting or not in Arakawa"... It's her piece, after all! And she is the one with all the decisions about it, at the end. So, if she wants to make Royai "not-cannon", she will and there's nothing like 'betrayal' implied to it. She's not here to please us, in the first place (and, if she tried, she would be a fool, since she could never please all of us). So, I don't trust Arakawa will always "please me", but I do trust she will be "herself" and, by doing so, will always come up with things that will satisfy me.

And, moreover, I don't see the need of making it "official cannon". We have talked about this a couple of time ago, here, and I have stated my mind that, for me, it doesn't actually make a difference if Royai is cannon or not: it won't make my shipping any more 'legitimate' or "stronger" for the mere fact that is official. We have the liberty of having any shippings we like and "mine is cannon" is hardly an argument to prove that it is better than others. (There're cannon couples which are horrible and non-cannon ones that are great) So, having proof it's cannon has little importance to me.

BUT, of course, in the case of Royai, I believe they ARE cannon, not because they can 'proof' its cannon with a romantic ending, declarations or whatnot, but for the mere fact of the scenes that are already in the manga. For me, they are 'implied' enough. And, if other people don't think so, that's ok by me.

My only interest in having any official statement by Arakawa in that sense would be to "shut up" the people who are the opposite of me: "the ones who think that, when there's no concrete proof that they are a couple, they're therefore automatically NOT a couple and that leads to 'this shipper is a lesser-shipper' for that." Which I think it's a very infantile way of thinking. (and which does not stand in the long while, since that person will, eventually, ship a couple which is believed to be cannon and has no proof of it whatsoever and all of that will backfire)

I would, however, enjoy very much to be surprised by Arakawa with a 'out of nowhere' revelation they they became a couple, like she does with so many other things in her Guides (like Mme Christmas being Roy's aunt or Grumman being Riza's grandfather), by making something like a timeline of FMA into the future with a marking "Mustang and Hawkeye's marriage" date or a picture of the "Führer Mustang's Family"... In fact, that would be the best way to make a closure to Royai, to me.

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with Turdaewen with this one. I don't have a great deal to add, but here are some of my thoughts...

(Warning - series ending spoilers ahead!) I love EdWin, but it differs from Royai in the sense that it's understandable that they got their hug scene and family photo. To be honest, for me and maybe many others, this was somewhat expected because of the bigger clues that were given throughout the series in regards for Ed and Winry's feelings for each other.

But Royai is very different; to end it with subtly between the two is very much fitting of the portrayal of their relationship all the way through the story. To go and end it with a huge love confession would have been completely out of step with this and all it would have done is serve to make some fangirls squee; as a result of that, I think it would have taken away that which makes Royai quite special.

I, for one, think it was very lovely to know that on the last photo of them, Riza was still stood there right by Roy's side, because he still has to get to the top. I think that in itself is a powerful image!

Anyone who's seen my posts here knows that I am a die-hard romantic. I like my mush, and I like my fluff, but everything has its place.

(Warning - series ending spoilers ahead!) As much as I'd hoped that we'd see something more than we did of Royai in the end, I'm actually quite okay with that not being the case. I came into FMA when it was 40 or 50 chapters along, so everything was still fairly open as to what was going to happen, and I wanted to see them together by the end. But as I started reading more and more of the manga and of the posts from people here, people with more life experience and different views on the world in general, Royai came to be one of my favorite pairings for what it wasn't as much as for what it was. They didn't get together (that we know of, at any rate) by the end. We didn't even really see anything overt except for those few times when they were on the verge of losing each other, and even then, how you interpret those moments can mean that you didn't see them as a sign of romantic love, or even love at all.

I'm not exactly holding my breath about the upcoming FMA Chronicles, but I wouldn't say no to seeing any/all of what Turdaewen suggested. Closure of a definite sort would make me incredibly happy. Like, so happy you wouldn't believe it. But bear in mind that I'm a fanfic writer. If we don't get one, I'll make my own up. I already have. They're alive and still standing by each other, and I think that says as much (if not more) than any romantic declaration ever could for them.

In short, I totally agree with Turdaewen and A Pierrot's Aria, but I had to toss in my two bits, as well.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

And I agree with what everyone said about the video - disturbingly hilarious.

(Warning - series final spoilers ahead!)
As for the ending of Fullmetal Alchemist in regard to RoyAi, I agree with what everyone said that it would have been OOC if they'd had a romantic confession thing. The whole point of RoyAi was subtlty. I'm satisfied by the ending because they're both alive and together, and I'm sure they'll be that way for many years to come. However, that doesn't mean I wouldn't have minded if we'd seen Roy as Fuhrer and Riza as first lady, or have some later-on confirmation from Arakawa in the future.

I think when we all first read the final chapter we were like, "Whut?" because we were on a RoyAi high from all the Envy stuff, transmutation stuff, etc., and the fact that they only had a few lines in the final chapter through us off as well. But the story is about Edward and Alphonse, and in retrospect I think we can all agree that Arakawa handled it just as she should have, and that the ending she gave us is one that we'd all have been happy with right off the bat had she not spoiled us several months before 108 lol. EdWin got the spotlight because they've never been subtle (they're awkward teens, after all!) and Mei and Al got confirmation because it's about damn time Al got a girlfriend (and Mei is FAR from subtle), but for Roy and Riza this is what it's always been - a confirmation of their deep caring and understanding to one another and of theri loyalties, with just enough left open for speculation to keep them in our minds long after the end of the manga.

I agree that Royai is more about subtlety than EdWin... But I remember someone (Arakawa or someone from the anime staff... I think it's the director of the anime staff or something like that) saying that Roy and Riza are even more awkward about their feelings than Ed and Winry...
Well, everything that doesn't come out of Arakawa's mouth isn't canon to me... the 2 anime aren't even canon to me. They're just based on Arawaka's original work.
So in the end... it's just an opinion from someone from the anime... and only canon I guess in the anime.

IMO, Royai is subtle because they are secondary characters... it's normal that Edwin and the Elric brothers got the final spotlight. Maybe they would be a little less sublte if they were main characters.... But if they were main characters, I'm pretty sure the whole Mustang gang would actually become as important as them (they're like family, after all)... and in that case, people would also dislike it if Royai became too obvious. So in the end, any resolution between them would still be subtle. Frankly, I'd like more overt moments because I love them so much... those 2 have so much potential contrary to some very shallow canon couples. But I came to the conclusion that, if a show/game/whatever isn't big on romance and have a team of characters that become like family... if there are romantic feelings between main characters, it's gonna be subtle and/or unresolved. In the case it is superdevelopped and resolved... there is a chance that people will complain and hate on the pairing for disturbing the whole friendly dynamic of the group (I mean, despite Royai being subtle and unresolved... I still met someone on the internet who complained that Riza was present when Roy visited Hughes' grave...).

If Arakawa ever resolves the Royai relationship, I think it's gonna be in a guide or something... and I would be good with that. Personally, I learned with other fandoms to enjoy the world of fanworks (endless fun, nothing is set in stone and you can use your imagination instead of being JUST a consumer *I'm an artist and a fan so I can't really help myself*) instead of expecting too much of the canon (which can give me an headache and heartache).

You know, I never thought of Roy and Riza as being "secundary characters"... not in the manga, at least. I've always considered FMA had a bigger circle of main characters, or else, it would be centered around Ed and Al and, lets face it, Arakawa has dedicated a lot more than a few characters solely for Roy, with plots that have no implications to Ed and Al whatsoever...

Therefore, I've always questioned that whole "he's a main character" "He's a secondary character" in FMA, when it comes to characters like Hohenheim, Roy, Riza... For me, they're main characters, as well. (which is a big difference with FMA 1, where everything revolves around Ed and Al)

And, also, I don't think they're subtle because they are secundary, but because that's their way! One of the things that I love most about Arakawa is her capacity of building up characters that actually ACT like real people, and not like anime characters (of course, there's also the comic parts and the dramatic ones, but I'm saying in general acting).
I mean, for example, my bf and I are together for 5 years, now, and we rarely kiss in public, even if just a peek... it's just that we don't like PDA... Some people even ask me if there's "something wrong with us", but I just say that, we're not comfortable in letting other people "standing there" while we whisper to eachother and that we consider that to be a rude thing to do. And it's also something for our job: we're also artists (Patrick is a bass player and I'm a singer and percussionist) and we work together and, therefore, we have a "work environment policy"... While we are at gigs and shows, it's terrible for our image to just act as if there was noone else in the room and, plus, as musicians, we also need to be performatic. People watching my show don't know I'm into anime, that I have a bf, who's standing next to me in the stage, or that I have a website on Arakawa's work... It's nice to keep the mistery. (and I think Arakawa also likes to play with that, or she wouldn't have made that scene with Riza and Envy... She WANTS us to "second guess" about Roy and Riza! she has joked around with that more than once)
And there're so many other couples out there who are just the same.

So, all of this just to say: I don't think they are like that because their relationship has not being elaborated by Arakawa in the manga or because it's "not central". Their relationship has been addressed many times and elaborated more than many other important plots on the manga... It's just "their way". Every couple has a different dynamics and, certainly, a couple made by a 30 year old and a 28~27 one will not act like a couple of a 16 and 15 years old, as awkward as they may be.


But, about the statement, I'm certain it's not Arakawa's, cause Arakawa has never directly said anything about Royai...
Probably, it was either Mizushima or Yasuhiro... I remember that Riza's VA in FMA 1 (Michiko Neya) once said she didn't like Royai and that she didn't think their relationship was anything romantic, which lead to a different interpretation of her character which might have been proven difficult towards the end of the series.

Everything I think has been addressed above, but I'm just adding a very small thought here because of the fact that I was actually thinking about this last week, randomly.

To me, (as said above) there are just a wider circle of main characters. It's one of the things I love about FMA; the fact that there aren't really any "character arcs" that concentrate on a particular character. (Although, I'm not saying here that I don't like it when that happens in other series.) The majority of the characters are main and contribute to the plot in some form, even if it doesn't help Ed and Al directly. It's true that the story is sparked by the desire for Ed and Al to get back their bodies, but on the whole, it's a plot that adds to the bigger picture/story as a whole (as does Roy's desire to become Fuhrer etc.) So I wouldn't say that Roy and Riza are secondary characters. (I hope that makes sense.) The subtlety between Roy and Riza is just how they roll, as opposed to it being a reason for the notion that they're secondary characters.

And as much as I love EdWin, it would have been a little silly to make Roy and Riza act like them when it comes to their relationship. They're completely different characters who have their own ways of handling situations and understanding each other...to which I have to wholeheartedly agree with...



This!

(Warning - series final spoilers ahead!)
At least for me, i'd loved to see any conversation between them, i mean... the only romantic thing they could do for an ending would be a nice smile for each other.
Just a nice smile would had been enough for the fandom that really understand how the Royai works, right ? Because, in the same way it would had been kinda dissapointing to see such an extreme royai, not for fangirls of course hahahaha, but it would had been that way for the people that loves the way they express their feelings, they're not teenagers nor inmature kids as some of u said, and a 30-years-old-man can not blush and try to avoid his partner cuz she said something he didnt like at all, and start to scream and getting angry for many reasons (as u could see in the development of edwin). Even if we didnt get a bit of royaish ending, we know that the relationship they handle is the most perfect in anime world, i mean, any other anime relationship is about teenagers and they usually hate each other and scream to each other and in the end they love each other... Royai is deeper and has an story behind them, they do not insult each other (keeping away the phrase ''you are useless under rain), they do not scream to each other, they do not express their feelings in a ovbious way, they have their own way to demonstrate how much they love each other, and i think that's enough for me at least, and as i said, i would loved to had seen any conversation in the end.

I understand your point of views (all of you)... I also think Royai is subtle because that's how they roll (believe me, I LOVE Roy and Riza quiet love and strong trust... I would not want them to bicker all the time... those type of relationships can irritate me big time *one of the reasons why I'm not a huge fan of EdWin... or Ron/Hermione from HP... I like them but that's not the bickering that I liked, that's for sure...*). But I just think that, ultimately, even if other characters got character development... to me, FMA IS the Elric's story (I love how the characters were developped in the manga/Brotherhood... but there are people who felt like the bond between the brothers seemed to be much more present in the first anime, because the story was so much more focused on them... contrary to Brotherhood *some people said that the first anime should have been named Brotherhood instead lol*). I think it was Arakawa who said something like that... that her story wasn't called the Flame Alchemist and that she didn't want people to favor Roy over Edward. That's why I said Roy, Riza and others were secondary characters (even if helpful and developped) contrary to the Elric Brothers... I think Arakawa made sure we kept that in mind (or she would not have made that comment about Roy and Ed I think). And that's why I think any romance other than Edwin had to stay "under the radar", very subtle, in the background... such as Royai, the married couples, Denny/Maria and of course Ling and Lanfan. Ah yes, and also Al and Mei... or not (I don't know where to class them... those two). So yes, Royai might be naturally subtle but I think Arawaka made it that way because it was also convenient in the story.

Arakawa's FMA first was about 2 brothers on their journey to get their bodies back... she gave character development to the characters Ed and Al met, she surely grew attached to them and so made them more important and interesting (and, IMO, it makes the FMA's world a bit more real... all those characters who helped and/or accompanied the brothers have lives, feelings, ambitions etc... they're not just comic reliefs/plot devices...)... but in the end, she knew FMA's "stars' were the brothers and it was their storyline that mattered the most.
Well, that's just how I see things.

I don't remember her saying we shouldn't favor Roy over Edward... She said, once, she didn't understand why people favored Roy over Ed because she thought Roy was annoying. Right after that she said that she probably felt like that because she had a tendency to look things "through Ed's eyes".

I mean, if she really said something of the sort, well, then I'm sorry for her, cause she's not entitled to control what people think of her characters or what their preferences are and say "You should be looking at Ed". And if she DOES think like that, well, than she's a fool. But I really doubt it. XD She can control the story, where things go with it, but she has no control over the impact of that story on the public whatsoever and I think she's mature and wise and was taught by her manga teachers well enough to be fully aware of that.

I mean, for example: I HATE Seiya from Saint Seiya. He's the protagonist, alright, but, just as the majority of the fandom of that series, I hate his guts. And I like Shiryu! And there's nothing Kuramada can say about it: he is the one who should be careful to make a main protagonist not be a total pain in the @$$. And the consequence is that: people love his show, but hate the main characters and always dress up as "secondary". For me, that only shows a lack of ability from the mangaka to be able to control his/her story. Cause he/her is not '"passing the message" efficiently.


But, really, at least in my limited experience about "Arakawaian stuff", she's very conscience-full about what she does and does not do with her series: if she didn't want people to "look to Roy", she wouldn't give him so much of the spotlight. And, so, she may personally think he's annoying, but she does like him and she does like "working" him. Noone ever said someone has to like the main characters, but you do need to "work them". And she did that. So, it's like "Roy is a bastard, but he's MY bastard character".

And, actually, FMA wasn't about Ed and Al, at first... At least not according to Arakawa's interviews.
She said it was about a "Father and a Son", which means it would probably be about the relationship between Ed and Hohenheim, but, the main story was set put once the manga started to be issued, so, she already knew from the start that Roy would take a large part of the story (for example, the scene of Lust's Death was arranged since the beginning). So, FMA IS, for course, centered around Ed, and that's why it's called "Fullmetal Alchemist", but Arakawa had no intention of making it "all about Ed and Al", or there wouldn't even have the "5 human sacrifices" plot in the first place. It could be only 2, or 3. So I really do think it wasn't at all random. At least not in regards to these "main/side characters", like Roy. You could say that of characters like Yoki or the Chimeras, but not Roy. I think it's pretty clear she hasn't "stumble upon him" across the manga.

I need everyone's help!

I know this is something we've gone over a few times before, but I can't seem to find the old posts, so...

Basically, a friend of mine is FINALLY reading FMA, and it's not exactly going as I expected...it's not that they dislike it, but they're pretty skeptical about a lot of things...I plan on setting her straight on why the actual story and Arakawa's writing are absolutely amazing but I was wondering if anyone here could help me win her over to RoyAi. Not that I'm asking her to ship it or be insane like me, but she basically said she didn't see anything between them and if there was even a sliver of romance, it was only on Riza's part, and that Roy shows nothing toward her. Obviously, when I had this conversation, I jumped in by reciting random moments where he showed he cared but I know a lot of you have written really good explanations in the past as to why Roy cares about her just as much, and what makes RoyAi amazing, so I was wondering if you guys could give me some good ideas as to what I should say to this person...the subtlty seems to be lost on her, and I'd like to find some way to explain why this subtlty is what makes them such a strong pairing...

Thanks so much for your help!!! Sometimes it helps to get someone else's opinion on something, and to show I'm not the only person seeing these things lol

Very simple: just show her the scene of "Elizabeth was taken away by another man". lol


But, seriously, now... I think it's very hard to convince a person about something like Royai if they don't even consider the possibility of it. She is just closed out to the idea of it, as it seems by what you've said.

In fact, I think it'll be very hard for your friend to understand later parts of the manga if she doesn't understand a fundamental thing about Arakawa:

Arakawa works a lot more in terms of expressions, scenes, character looks and attitudes than words. Her mangas are not the sort of story you'll just figure out just by reading "what people say" (as I'm sure the people from the FMA Project have stumbled upon this difficulty while trying to make FMA into a novel).
Remember: Arakawa is from a background of "Oneshots". She's accustomed to have to pass a MASSIVE quantity of information in a very limited number of pages... And what better way of "passing information" than through a picture? (you know the saying! "One picture is worth more than a thousand words" and that fits perfectly to Arakawa)

It's like that with Souten no Komori, with Stray Dog... and it's the same with FMA! She'll never get FMA if she doesn't start paying attention to MORE than it's said. Moreover when it comes to Royai, cause, literally, if she doesn't get Royai, she won't get at all the character of Roy and his story. Period. And I say that because I've seen before more than once: people who hate Roy simply because they didn't understand the dynamics of his relationship to Riza and, therefore, thought that half the scenes involving him were 'senseless'.

So, to read an manga by Arakawa, you have to understand it is a "Graphic Novel" in the true sense of the word: which means the graphic in and for itself plays a fundamental role in the process of understanding the story, and not just a "illustration to help the imagination" like you have in books. So, body language, looks, expressions play a fundamental part to it. More than just "read", you have to be an observer to get what's being said... Many things are explained in the background, or in a look Ed gives Al...

More than that, I also think it makes the process of understanding Royai a lot more difficult if you're not familiar with the metaphors and reflections Arakawa is so keen to make at every chance possible. It would be interesting for her to read the other pieces by Arakawa, understand the dynamics of other couples in her mangas, maybe read some of her interviews... Understand where "she's coming from" and where she wants to get at, which may seem obvious, but, in fact, it is not. It requires a certain level of "manga/anime knowledge", of getting acquainted to how Japanese people tell stories and even some "abstract thinking". (do you remember Arakawa's preparation for writing FMA was reading real Alchemy books? So, guess what: understanding FMA holds some similarities to what Ed and Al do while reading the books by Dr. Marcoh: decipher!)

I always relate Arakawa to another writer who has some similar characteristics: Jane Austen. Although their genres are strikingly different, they have one thing in common: both their brilliancy in writing comes from the importance and development they both give to their character's psyche. How they construct their ideas, how their experiences "build" the way they view the world around them... and how other experiences can influence that view.

So, summarizing: very little awaits for a person who wants to read FMA "lightly", cause the whole brilliancy of the series is anything but obvious and exposed and it asks from the reader more than just a little attention: it requires wits. It demands reflection, think and think over and more than just an inch of discernment. Definitely not an "easy reading", even though it can be considered a "comic book".

Thank you so much, Turdaewen! All you said makes a lot of sense. I had a feeling I was going to get the response that there was no way to convince my friend if she didn't see it herself, but your explanation makes perfect sense in my situation - my friend isn't really into anime, and this is her first time reading a graphic novel, so I can understand when you put it that way why she may not be picking up on half the things in there, because you have to have a really experienced eye to be able to read FMA, because Arakawa kind of "power packs" everything she writes in there so you don't only rely on words but on deeper meanings in images as well.

Your explanation has put me less on edge, because I was wondering before, "How can someone not get FMA's brilliance, or Roy's character, etc.," because it's always been so strikingly obvious to me, but I can see better now why my friend may not pick up on that as easily, being a first-time manga reader. I guess because we've been reading FMA for years I'm so used to it that I assume everyone can pick up on the most miniscule hints that I've grown so accustomed to...and having the background of the animes, Arakawa's interviews, and her other writing also helps add to the understanding of how the story and characters are composed.

Thanks again I really appreciated that! I feel a little relieved now (and it's funny you should mention Jane Austen because...well, Arakawa's my favorite writer, but in the realm of literature, Austen is my #1!)

@ RoyxRizaFan

What Turdaewen said.

Arakawa built the entire relationship between Roy and Riza on subtle hints that you would never get if you never paid attention to it. Their relationship is literally a background thing - she won't see it if she's onloy paying attention to what's happening right in front of her. It's one of those things where you really, actually have to read between the lines or you won't get it at all. It's one of the reasons I love the manga so much, actually - because you can't take *anything* - so, not just Roy and Riza, but pretty much *anything* - for face value. There are that many layers to everything.

Pretty much, I reckon the only way you can get her to see the beauty of Royai - the entire manga, for that matter - is just to look at what they do and what they say a lot closer. It's not even overanalysis or anything - it's just that everything you need to know about them is *right there*. People just miss it because they're not paying attention.

That said though, in the later scenes of the manga, it does get pretty obvious - when your friend gets to the part where Wrath specifically transfers Riza to be his secretary and when Ed specifically refers to her as a hostage, there's no denying it. Even someone who reads FMA lightly can't deny that it's a classic hostage situation - and why are hostages used in the first place? Because whoever's being threatened feels much stronger about that hostage than they should. That's how Roy feels about Riza in a nutshell.

We need to resuscitate this thread, methinks!

I'm part of the philosophy society here at university and it got me thinking of this random question: What societies could you imagine Roy and Riza joining? (Even if you don't go/haven't been to university, you can still answer; you can get a society involving almost anything. )

I could imagine Roy joining perhaps the politics society, debating society, because I believe that Roy is a good public speaker and debater as he is very charismatic and confident. And also, the chess society because he likes chess --I imagine due to the tactics it involves.

As for Riza, I could imagine her joining the dance society or maybe even art society. I imagine that Riza could be very artistic.

U mean... being them as part of a society group ?
Well, ur idea about Roy being a political character is so great, besides, that's what he is actually. But i am so obsessed with the idea of Roy singing and dancing like Korean guys
Riza... i see her as a business woman i pretty like that idea, she would be like.. my sister haha, she's a bussines woman and she wakes up earlier to see people getting late to work and to annoy them cuz they're late lol

Lisamustang--A society is like a club or team, I think. (Is this right A Pierrot's Aria? We term them differently in the U.S., at least, in my part of the U.S.) You know, like a school sports team or debate team or whatever. Yeah! That's right! - A Pierrot's Aria

I think Roy would join some sort of chemistry society if one were available, and probably the debate society, too, I must agree! (I can't really see him doing chess with the frequency a society demands, though.)

Riza as an art society person... I'd say dance is more likely. I really feel like, as sedate as she is, she'd need to be up and moving. (I know art isn't totally sedentary, but still...)

I think there is many many royai moments in the Manga, ex: the elizabeth scenes, the riza vs gluttony scene, the lust vs roy scene where fuhrer is peeking riza x roy, the riza's throat being sliced scenes, and barry the chopper especially

Here's one of my assumption:

In this pic Roy is shown very mad because riza is being groped by barry the chopper Roy is terribly mad.



And let's compare to this :



Roy: "The Good thing about About being blind is i'll accidentally touch the lieutenant! "
Roy: "Oh is she beside me... right now!!!" "This is my chance!!!" (This perhaps meant that Roy never touched riza before, despite the assumptions of what were roy and riza
"doing" when she showed him her back during her teenage moments and also in ishbal. Thus seing barry the chopper on the first pic, touching "his" riza despite himself never touched her before, makes him so mad )

^ Don't blame me if I'm a bit too corny but ( ) in class we seriously debated on if they had done it during him learning flame alchemy or not.(good ol' days)


This is probably the most IC proposal fic I've ever seen
(Spoiler warning!!!! This one TOTALLY reveals spoiler contents for FMA:Brotherhood/manga series final, of course.)

onigiri_girl--I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but the omakes and the funnier scenes tend to be harder to use as proof because we're not supposed to take them seriously. Roy could just be reacting to Barry because, as much of a ladykiller front as he puts out there, I'm willing to bet money that deep down, he's really quite the upstanding guy who would be angry if he saw anyone groping anyone else. As to "The Worst Idea In History"... I don't think omakes can be taken at face value. I mean, there was the one with the Truth's mom washing his boxers or something; definitely not something you'd take immediately as "that really happened".

A lot of the scenes you listed were serious ones, though, and I'd tend to use those. (I'm operating mostly on love being less physical than anything else. Is there a physical component to love? Sure--I'd never deny that! Between Roy and Riza? Jury's still out on that, but regardless, their love isn't any less special or deep or true than that of couples who do have physical relationships.)

FirstMoon--We've totally had the did they/didn't they debate here. Several times. Gimpyhair even did a comic about it, but I opted not to put that one in the Royai fanart gallery here due to the nature of its content, not that it would have been allowed, anyway. (It's not... outright indecent, if anyone's wondering, but it's very clear what the situation is.)