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Full Version: Hawkeye X Roy: The Royai Thread
Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > Fullmetal Alchemist Discussions > FMA Character Discussions
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FailToImpress
I just watched episode 19, and I loved it!
All I can say is that now I can't wait for Roy vs Envy....ooh boy, that should be good.
Michiyo-
@SneakyRuler: Thanks for the birthday wishes! ^^

I usually don’t watch English dubbed episodes, but this time I looked into episode 19 and it was very good! Riza’s voice actress did a great job with the screaming and crying.
But I still prefer the Japanese VAs. Miki Shinichiro and Orikasa Fumiko are perfect for Roy and Riza. They make the great scenes from the manga even more awesome, and that’s why I love episodes 19, 54 and 59. biggrin.gif
dec4rhapsody
QUOTE (Michiyo- @ Jun 21 2010, 05:19 AM) *
@SneakyRuler: Thanks for the birthday wishes! ^^

I usually don’t watch English dubbed episodes, but this time I looked into episode 19 and it was very good! Riza’s voice actress did a great job with the screaming and crying.
But I still prefer the Japanese VAs. Miki Shinichiro and Orikasa Fumiko are perfect for Roy and Riza. They make the great scenes from the manga even more awesome, and that’s why I love episodes 19, 54 and 59. biggrin.gif


For me it's always Ohkawa and Neya...blame me for being too nostalgic.


BTW, I watched the subbed version of Episode 62 and somehow I can't complain anymore.
Sorry for the over-analyzing, but it's something in the atmosphere of Royai that no one can interfere.
*Points at Armstrong who was just there, like air. ROFL*


EDIT: Huhuhu~
jacksparrow589
Tombow--Causmicfire said she'd compile a list of links from the festival when she had the time. Is that what you're talking about?

And now I'm gonna have to wait who-knows-how-long to see 19's dub at the rate [as] puts Brotherhood up lately! Thanks for the info, everyone! (Tombow--Half of it is the translation, half of it is how well it's acted. Am I happy that the language indicates Riza being righteously pissed off? Yes. And I have faith that it was well-done, but I really want to hear it now!)

And did I see it's Michiyo-'s birthday? Happy birthday! smile.gif
SneakyRuler
QUOTE (dec4rhapsody @ Jun 20 2010, 11:24 PM) *
<-Is it OK that I don't put that in spoilers?


Usually, if your comment applies to something not general (like x dislike) and you discuss happenings in anime episode over 30 or later manga chapters, it's better if you use them wink.gif
Generally, there might be people coming to this forums who don't read manga and didn't catch up on Brotherhood yet so it's better to be on the safe side biggrin.gif

I HATED Miki Shinichiro first 4 episodes laugh.gif And I slightly disliked him after that... until Hughes' funeral , if I recall correctly. Now he's become "my Roy" but geez, it took some time. Strangely, he was the only one I had issues with even though he's wonderful voice actor and there were other changes in the voice cast (which I didn't mind at all or got used to almost immediately).
dec4rhapsody
QUOTE (SneakyRuler @ Jun 21 2010, 06:26 AM) *
QUOTE (dec4rhapsody @ Jun 20 2010, 11:24 PM) *
<-Is it OK that I don't put that in spoilers?


Usually, if your comment applies to something not general (like x dislike) and you discuss happenings in anime episode over 30 or later manga chapters, it's better if you use them wink.gif
Generally, there might be people coming to this forums who don't read manga and didn't catch up on Brotherhood yet so it's better to be on the safe side biggrin.gif

I HATED Miki Shinichiro first 4 episodes laugh.gif And I slightly disliked him after that... until Hughes' funeral , if I recall correctly. Now he's become "my Roy" but geez, it took some time. Strangely, he was the only one I had issues with even though he's wonderful voice actor and there were other changes in the voice cast (which I didn't mind at all or got used to almost immediately).


Thank you! I've got it done.

As for Miki, the reason I absolutely LOATHE him is that...out of 20 Anime OTPs of mine, 7 of the male part are voiced by him!!

Would it be proper to describe that as aesthetic fatigue or am I just Tsundere?
heartwing713
Ep. 19 was great! Colleen did a wonderful job, and so did Travis! I've always loved the way they play Riza and Roy. Colleen though...man, she really did particularly well on this episode. And Lust...OH MY GOSH. Her voice actor did some amazing amazing work as well! I think I want to go watch it again...

By the way...can anyone pm me with a link to watch ep. 62 subbed? The place I usually watch it had a downright horrible translation this time, even though they're usually very good. (For example, did Hohenheim yell, "Drugs!" when Father blew up the building in the manga? And since when does "nii-san" translate to "dude"? Yes...Al was yelling "dude!" at Ed in that scene.)
Anyway, yeah, links would be great. biggrin.gif
hand-made-city
^WOW what translating group was that? That's hysterical! And... horrible. XD


I like Miki... he's got a really smooth and nice voice, whereas Travis has a rougher voice. But both suit the character well! I laughed so hard during Travis's take on the phone call scene. Omigod that was so over the top. I loved it.

And Fumiko and Colleen play Riza pretty differently as well... the difference was really obvious in episode 19, now that I've heard the dubbed version of that episode. But once again, both voices still suit the character! That can be rare to find in dubbed anime..
_Jelly
I dang, we've gone past the ep 62 discussion? Oh well, I just woke up (even though it's 12:30 in the afternoon), and I'm posing my thoughts, dammit. tongue.gif

So like, a number of people were saying that BONES hates Royai? Oh course they do, that's why they did what they did in episode 61 for us. Ho ho ho... err, sorry. Anyway, I havent actually watched it yet, but I like how they've done the Royai scene for this episode, more so in the manga. Even when reading the manga I was like "Aaaw, they've got their arms around each other... how did he clap his hands when his arm was all the way over there? Oh well, it's a manga, inconsistencies are allowed." But in cartoons, not so much. It's more practical if his arm isnt around her and vise versa, they'd just get tangled up in each other (as much as we'd like to see that, we have a plot that needs to stay on track). Besides, it still leads to EPIC

http://randomc.net/image/Fullmetal%20Alche...0Large%2018.jpg

I looooooove that screenshottttttt. It's like, I can hear it now, in the background! "Whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do? WHATCHA GONNA DO WHEN THEY COME FOR YOU?!"

... EDIT: Oh I forgot, they missed the part where he held her hand and was leading her out right? I guess that is a bummer. Compensation for the previous episode?

@Episode 19 dubbed
Havent watched it yet, will get around to it though. I also prefer Riza's Japanaese VA, mostly because her English one is so low. Also when I watched anime1 there was really no emotion there at all. But I'm sure she's improved ten-fold smile.gif
jacksparrow589
Okay. Just found the dub of 19 on a different site. Two words: EPIC WIN. And not just Royai, but all around. Although, of course, the Royai bits are my favorites. smile.gif I love Riza's snarkiness in Brotherhood. Yeah, she can sass back and get away with it, and it works very well.

_Jelly--Either my computer sucks or that screenshot link is broken. I wanna see it in all its wondrous glory, though!
heartwing713
hand-made-city, I think it was just some individual trying to make a fansub. It didn't say who the translating group was. But, yeah, it was pretty awful. There were other mistakes, too, like Olivier telling Alex to "take the communicator and end it to them good" when she hands him the phone. And apparently Al plans to "leave it to the man" instead of "counting on brother"

Jacksparrow, I agree, I love snarky Riza in the English dub. It's part of what made me like her character in the first place when I watched anime1.

Jelly, sorry, but I can't see that screen either, actually.
FMAobsessed
I go away for about three days and I am behind by six pages.

I haven't watched episode 62 or the dub of 19. But I can't wait to watch them online. Although I did want to watch 19 on the TV. At least I will have the DVD when it comes out. But anyways I digress.

It is disappointing to hear about the Royai scenes from chapter 107 being cut out. But we will manage to carry on so no worries. And besides I thought that Izumi was leaving Sig for Roy. But don't worry Riza has Darius now. tongue.gif
jacksparrow589
FMAobsessed--Riza had Darius before Roy had Izumi, though! I mean, Roy left Riza in Darius's care! That practically screams "Take her--you're a far better man for her than I ever will be." tongue.gif

Have I mentioned recently how much I enjoy freaking out/making jokes about the latest Royai screwup in Brotherhood?

Really, though, I do recognize that they're not screwups, and that there are parts that, for whatever reasons that don't (read: they say they don't, but I think otherwise... wink.gif ) have anything whatsoever to do with BONES shipping Royai, are selected to be left out or altered. Simple as that. We get our extra little bits here and there, too, so it's all good in the Royai hood. smile.gif
SneakyRuler
@heartwing713: am I bad for laughing at your horrible experience with subtitles? "Leave it to the man!" Sounds just like our sweet and innocent Al laugh.gif No fansub group has realeased yet, so once either of them is finished, I'm pretty sure the horrible sub is replaced with a new one. I personally always wait for Eclipse, their work is comparable to FUNi subs.

I'm pretty greatful there are fansubs. I'm able to watch FMA Brotherhood youtube channel but it doesn't have my language or English so I'd have to watch Norwegian subs *shudders*

On completely different notes, I tried to draw some royai fanart but I failed miserably. I always figured Riza would be the harder one but I can't get even close to Roy's look! I can't even recreate his face/ facial expressions directly from manga I'm looking at! Good I'm not an artist huh.gif

FMAobsessed: Riza and Darius would make a pairing worth a heroic legend or at least a ballad. Too bad they didn't get the opportunity to know each other better... biggrin.gif Heck, now I'm supporting Jerso/Olivier, that might actually work if Bones doesn't sabotage my OTP again!
heartwing713
I read on 4 chan that Arakawa decided she wasn't happy with the ending and decided to use Brotherhood to reveal the way she really wanted it to happen: Apparently RizaxDarius, Elricest, RoyxIzumi, PinakoxHohenheim, and ArmstrongxSig are canon

No, not really XD

I would die if that happened. And not in a good way.
MustangSally
QUOTE (hand-made-city @ Jun 20 2010, 10:14 PM) *
^WOW what translating group was that? That's hysterical! And... horrible. XD


I like Miki... he's got a really smooth and nice voice, whereas Travis has a rougher voice. But both suit the character well! I laughed so hard during Travis's take on the phone call scene. Omigod that was so over the top. I loved it.

And Fumiko and Colleen play Riza pretty differently as well... the difference was really obvious in episode 19, now that I've heard the dubbed version of that episode. But once again, both voices still suit the character! That can be rare to find in dubbed anime..


That's funny but I hear Miki and Travis' voices just the opposite. To me Travis voice sounds smoother and Miki's sounds rougher.

I have to admit, since starting to watch the subs a few months I have fallen in love with Miki's Mustang voice. I find it very flexible in conveying emotions and sexy too. smile.gif

I like Travis' voice too. I can't remember where I read it but someone complained about his voice being too deep because Mustang was only supposed to be like 30 and that cracked me up. A couple of my favorite tv actors, when they were under 30, had voices deeper than his. Both Texans(like him) so maybe guys from Texas just have deep voices. smile.gif But in any case, it doesn't sound to me to be any deeper than how his Japanese Voice Actor plays him. I figure it's to convey that he's a leader and "grown up" - deep voices are usually considered a way to convey leadership.

That said I have to say I think Miki's might be a more convincing voice actor. He seems better able to convey subtlety in tones, less flat. Sometimes I catch a bit of awkwardness or flatness with Travis but then again it could just be because I actually understand what he's saying without subtitles so maybe I catch things I wouldn't on a voice in a language I don't understand.

I like both Riza's as well, though I sometimes think the English language Riza is played with a voice a bit too deep. On the other hand she is in the military and that could be a factor too, working with a lot of men, so it's probably a valid choice for Riza's characterization.

I watched episode 19 on Cartoon Network Saturday night and thought they both did a great job though. God I live that episode, whether it's in Japanese or English. biggrin.gif Colleen's Riza was especially good with her breakdown.
_Jelly
Oh, sorry guys, that screen was of the Riza Roy and Armstrong standing in front of the smoke. It's a cap from random curiosity's blog. And

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IM WATCHING EPISODE 19 IVE NEVER WATCHED THE DUB BEFORE

Okay I lie, I have. Riza's VA, I think HAS impoved. I like it best when she shouts biggrin.gif And she did VERY well in the scene with Lust. I found it more bearable than the Japanese version actually.
But Roy's... hmm, naah I dont like it. Like, at all. Sounds like the voice of a villian... guh.

And who's the failure who editted the opening? And then said that it was the song "again"?
heartwing713
I know! They always shorten the themes in the dubs! It bugs me!

Gosh...if it wasn't midnight here, I'd go watch the dubbed ep. 19 again. I just love it so much. I love the subbed version too though....
dec4rhapsody
Well, I still feel trolled with the Darius-Hawkeye eyecatch/Roy-Izumi-whatever-that-was and the altering of the Royai-rabu-rabu-atakku.
Brotherhood is interesting when it comes to Royai, deleting/altering scenes here and there but adding tidbits for fangirl squeal when no one expected that.
Can't wait for the finale.

I still have grudges against Irie's interview on Roy/Hawkeye though.
I posted part of the translation in the temporary Royai discussion thread but it seemingly went unnoticed.
black~hayate
I missed a lot.
Who is this Irie?
_Jelly
I'm gonna take a guess, is he one of the directors that said he viewed Roy and Riza's relationship as platonic? I remember someone saying something about that so I assume that's the person. Seeing he's a/the director of Brotherhood, I can see why people would be worried. If this is what people are talking about, I mean.
dec4rhapsody
QUOTE (_Jelly @ Jun 21 2010, 03:39 PM) *
I'm gonna take a guess, is he one of the directors that said he viewed Roy and Riza's relationship as platonic? I remember someone saying something about that so I assume that's the person. Seeing he's a/the director of Brotherhood, I can see why people would be worried. If this is what people are talking about, I mean.


Ah, my bad.
I was referring to Yasuhiro Irie, the director of Brotherhood.
He is also being accused of being behind the massive deletion and alteration of Royai-ish scenes for he seems to favourite EdWin over everything XD.
black~hayate
Oh. Now I know who I'm gonna hunt next time I feel Royai was neglected.
Kaori Ayanami
What was the word? I doubt it was an equivalent to the word "platonic" because... well, Plato did write in The Symposium that the noblest love arises from the sight of a beautiful person (so, the literal definition of "platonic love" is quite possible in Royai, judging from the Ishval flashback XD). If that's what that person meant, it doesn't deny romantic overtones, it's just that in such a kind of love improving the loved one becomes the main thing.
Wait a minute. I never EVER thought of Royai that way... But it seems to fit. o_0

Errr, philosophical issues aside ^^U, I have the theory that those strangely un-Royaish episodes are to be blamed on their specific episode directors (you know, the ones that do direct an episode allegedly under the command of Irie).
dec4rhapsody
QUOTE (Kaori Ayanami @ Jun 21 2010, 04:51 PM) *
What was the word? I doubt it was an equivalent to the word "platonic" because... well, Plato did write in The Symposium that the noblest love arises from the sight of a beautiful person (so, the literal definition of "platonic love" is quite possible in Royai, judging from the Ishval flashback XD). If that's what that person meant, it doesn't deny romantic overtones, it's just that in such a kind of love improving the loved one becomes the main thing.
Wait a minute. I never EVER thought of Royai that way... But it seems to fit. o_0

Errr, philosophical issues aside ^^U, I have the theory that those strangely un-Royaish episodes are to be blamed on their specific episode directors (you know, the ones that do direct an episode allegedly under the command of Irie).


Nope, platonic isn't the word he used...
I feel ashamed for not being able to translate the most important phrase in that interview.
He said that the jolt of emotion Hawkeye displayed in Episode 19 were more about feelings towards someone who ??? (自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在への思い) than romantic love.
So what is 自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在? It literally translates into someone who "hits/strikes/destroys????" everything of you.
I first thought that this may refer to her "YOU B****TCH" towards Lust, but if that is the case the word feelings/omoi seems awkward to me. + The whole interview was about "bonds" between the characters, and Lust just doesn't go there.
Any help?

I think his definition was quite evasive XD.



Here we have the whole passage.

お互いに手を抜かない信頼関係

物語に登場したときから、ロイとホークアイは揺るがぬキズナを築いていた。
「ホークアイは、厳しいこともいうけれど、ロィの行動のすべてを受け止めている。ロイは、ホークアイに苦労をかけるのを承知で足うを止めない。19話でホークアイが見せた感情の揺れも、恋愛というよりは、自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在への思いなのかなと考えています」(入江監督)



There were also other interesting parts.

The whole intereview (mainly featuring Ed&Ling, Roy&Hawkeye) came out around the Ishval episode.

And the Ed&Winry - Roy&Hawkeye comparisons just cracked me up.

-Ed&Winry are moving faster than Roy&Hawkeye
-Roy&Hawkeye are both "unskillful" about their feelings towards each other. Compared to Ed & Winry, their "late crop"-ness probably increases in proportion to age...

Kami-sama...
FailToImpress
QUOTE (MustangSally @ Jun 21 2010, 05:04 AM) *
I like Travis' voice too. I can't remember where I read it but someone complained about his voice being too deep because Mustang was only supposed to be like 30 and that cracked me up. A couple of my favorite tv actors, when they were under 30, had voices deeper than his. Both Texans(like him) so maybe guys from Texas just have deep voices. smile.gif But in any case, it doesn't sound to me to be any deeper than how his Japanese Voice Actor plays him. I figure it's to convey that he's a leader and "grown up" - deep voices are usually considered a way to convey leadership.


See, I always thought the first anime Roy (Japanese voice) was waaaaay too deep and just sounded silly.
Plus, who else can you see playing Roy in English? I just can't think who else would be able to do that voice.

Also... I greatly prefer Riza's English voice... not only does she rock the backhanded comments and general snarkiness, the Japanese VA makes her sound far too young. She hasn't been so bad lately but I still don't think it really fits.
dec4rhapsody
Now I think it's amusing, it seems to be quite a tradition that the seiyuu of popular canon-but-not-quite-yet het pairings tend to deny that there is anything going on between them, which also happened with LelouchXCC from Code Geass and SetsunaXMarina from Gundam 00.

I found a scan of the Miki and Orikasa interview (which came out after the Lust episode), in which Orikasa was asked to describe the bond between Roy and Hawkeye that obviously goes beyond a normal professional relationship, and she answered:

I think it's neither romantic love or friendship. It's hard to categorize their relationship. Perhaps the closest word would be "trust".

And Miki followed:

She (Hawkeye) follows Roy even if she knows his "useless" side. (<= The "useless" herein is not "munou" but "dame".)
They undoubtly went through hell together, where they also carefully built their mutual trust.
Turdaewen
I still prefere Shinichiro Miki and Fumiko Orikasa... they just sound closer to what I've pictured for Roy and Riza.

And about Yasuhiro not liking Royai, well, I think there's enough "Royai" moments in FMA:B, so it doesn't make much of a difference for me if Royai is his favorite couple or not. And, well, that's his opinion, not mine. XD I don't agree with it, but he's entitled to have it. XD
At the same time, he may not like Royai as he does EdWin, but still considers it cannon, or he wouldn't talk like he does. lol And that's enough for me.
So, I'm guessing people have been taking this things a little too seriously. Even the "not liking Royai" thing as if it's a personal offense. So, that's that I meant by "worring too much about details". I mentioned Trekkies because they're really emblematic when it comes to taking something that was supposed to be "a hobbie" WAY too seriously, but that applies to practically anything.

I don't know.. maybe I'm just past that phase where something like that would have bothered me... XD After all, I'm not that young anymore. XD Things tend to be not as "heavy" as they used to be. lol

Like I've said many, many months ago, I don't really care much if a shipper I enjoy is cannon or not, cause it makes no difference. I know that Royai is cannon and I think that's great and I defend their 'cannoness" because they ARE cannon. But, if they weren't, it wouldn't make them any less interesting!
Being cannon or not doesn't make a shipper more 'important' than any other. Or even more valid. It's just a fact. And most the shippers I like have never been cannon.

I guess it's more to the field of "frustrated expectations", this changes, because we want to see something that may not come to be in a story. But I guess that's the fun about reading/watching someone else's work: get to see HIS/HERS point of view, not ours. If we want our point of view, we don't NEED the manga or the anime: we can do it ourselves! That's the beauty of it.
The interesting thing about watching a piece made by someone else is precisely looking at it 'differently'. Or else, it's just an exercise of "reinforcing your own point of view".
A Pierrot's Aria
I agree with you, FailToImpress. I think that they couldn't have picked a better English voice for Roy, and I like Riza's English voice better for the same reason as you; her Japanese voice sounds too young.

For some reason this whole discussion reminds me of a funny instance in which I saw that someone refused to watch Brotherhood because Roy wasn't voiced by Okhawa any more. I don't mean to come across nasty, but that's the most ridiculous reason for someone not wanting to watch something ever. xD;

As for the director liking/disliking RoyAi or not, I'm confused as to why people are making huge conspiracy theories about it...I mean, it would be rather unprofessional to alter the way two characters interact just because you don't like it. I believe they just chose to do it a little differently. Besides, a hand to the chest or no hand to the chest isn't the be all and end all to any relationship, and similarly as I touched upon before, a hand to the chest doesn't mean that two people are madly in love with each other or anything.

I completely understand that it would have been a nice thing to see, and people will be thinking that changing it was unnecessary, but the fact is it didn't happen but that doesn't mean that the directors hate Royai. Besides, I think it's the more subtle or ambiguous nature of their gestures that make Royai the amazingness it is; it portrays their deep trust in each other- with relationships like these I believe that explicit gestures and words are used and/or needed to a much lesser extent. So as nice as it was, a nice blatant hand on the chest is neither here nor there. wink.gif Their teamwork, as always, is brilliant.
Nagareboshi
QUOTE (dec4rhapsody @ Jun 21 2010, 05:26 AM) *
Nope, platonic isn't the word he used...
I feel ashamed for not being able to translate the most important phrase in that interview.
He said that the jolt of emotion Hawkeye displayed in Episode 19 were more about feelings towards someone who ??? (自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在への思い) than romantic love.
So what is 自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在? It literally translates into someone who "hits/strikes/destroys????" everything of you.
I first thought that this may refer to her "YOU B****TCH" towards Lust, but if that is the case the word feelings/omoi seems awkward to me. + The whole interview was about "bonds" between the characters, and Lust just doesn't go there.
Any help?

I think his definition was quite evasive XD.



Here we have the whole passage.

お互いに手を抜かない信頼関係

物語に登場したときから、ロイとホークアイは揺るがぬキズナを築いていた。
「ホークアイは、厳しいこともいうけれど、ロィの行動のすべてを受け止めている。ロイは、ホークアイに苦労をかけるのを承知で足うを止めない。19話でホークアイが見せた感情の揺れも、恋愛というよりは、自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在への思いなのかなと考えています」(入江監督)



Here's my translation:

They're both in a relationship of mutual trust that isn’t tawdry. (Edit: slightly modified the translation).

From the time they appeared in the story, Roy and Hawkeye were building an unshakable bond. "Even though Hawkeye says stern things, she accepts all of Roy’s actions/behavior. With her consent, Roy doesn’t stop burdening her with hardships. I think that the jolt of emotion Hawkeye showed in episode 19 is a fondness for someone who affects her entire existence rather than romantic love.”
SneakyRuler
Thank you, Nagareboshi! So problem solved. We don't know whether or not Yasuhiro Irie thinks of royai as a romantic couple but now we're pretty sure he understands the dynamic of their relationship. I couldn't say it better myself. His definition pretty much says 'love' tongue.gif
dec4rhapsody
Nagareboshi!
Thank you 1000 times!
Now I can rest in peace, lol.

QUOTE (SneakyRuler @ Jun 21 2010, 11:40 PM) *
I couldn't say it better myself. His definition pretty much says 'love' tongue.gif


Kami-sama, just say it already~


EDIT: BTW, Nagareboshi,would it be proper to translate "お互いに手を抜かない" into "can't let go of each other"?
FailToImpress
QUOTE (Nagareboshi @ Jun 21 2010, 04:17 PM) *
I think that the jolt of emotion Hawkeye showed in episode 19 is a fondness for someone who affects her entire existence rather than romantic love.”


On the whole, this is how I feel about their relationship realistically. It's more of a deep attachment to each other, and really, platonic love is the best way to describe it.

There's a big difference between 'love love' and platonic love. Yes, he's saying that they love each other, but not in the way that most people seem to want them to be.
Nagareboshi
dec4rhapsody and SneakyRuler: you're very welcome!



QUOTE (dec4rhapsody @ Jun 21 2010, 11:51 AM) *
EDIT: BTW, Nagareboshi,would it be proper to translate "お互いに手を抜かない" into "can't let go of each other"?


Nope.

お互いに means mutually; with each other; reciprocally; together; both. 手を抜かない means "not shoddy," or "not cheap (in quality)."

So, it roughly translates to something like "together they're not shoddy."

お互いに手を抜かない modifies the noun 信頼関係 which means "a relationship of mutual trust." So, when you put them together you get : They're both in a relationship of mutual trust that's not tawdry/shoddy/cheap.
dec4rhapsody
QUOTE (Nagareboshi @ Jun 22 2010, 12:22 AM) *
QUOTE (dec4rhapsody @ Jun 21 2010, 11:51 AM) *
EDIT: BTW, Nagareboshi,would it be proper to translate "お互いに手を抜かない" into "can't let go of each other"?


Nope.



Thank you again for clearing this up!!!
Yepp, silly me.
I should have remembered what 手を抜く means since I come across this word so much in action games XD.

QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Jun 22 2010, 12:11 AM) *
On the whole, this is how I feel about their relationship realistically. It's more of a deep attachment to each other, and really, platonic love is the best way to describe it.

There's a big difference between 'love love' and platonic love. Yes, he's saying that they love each other, but not in the way that most people seem to want them to be.


I've got a mixed feeling towards this.
It is that I cannot disagree, but one half of myself is just too rotten to accept this after years of indulging in fanfics, fanarts, doujinshi and fantasies.
Turdaewen
Thanx for the translations
From what's written there, I don't see it as if he's saying they "don't love eachother", just that their relationships is not JUST about that and that's not the only motivating factor to their actions, which I agree to completely. He's saying that, in that particular situation, Riza got over the top not because 'she's in love with Roy', but because it was a very strong situation for her.
And that's pretty much accurate!

So, I make A Pierrot's Aria's words my own. XD
black~hayate
QUOTE (Turdaewen @ Jun 21 2010, 07:26 PM) *
Thanx for the translations
From what's written there, I don't see it as if he's saying they "don't love eachother",


Lucky guy then biggrin.gif I swear I would search for him and attack him if it would be true, that he said, that Roy and Riza don't love each other. Hehe...

just joking
MustangSally
QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Jun 21 2010, 05:42 AM) *
QUOTE (MustangSally @ Jun 21 2010, 05:04 AM) *
I like Travis' voice too. I can't remember where I read it but someone complained about his voice being too deep because Mustang was only supposed to be like 30 and that cracked me up. A couple of my favorite tv actors, when they were under 30, had voices deeper than his. Both Texans(like him) so maybe guys from Texas just have deep voices. smile.gif But in any case, it doesn't sound to me to be any deeper than how his Japanese Voice Actor plays him. I figure it's to convey that he's a leader and "grown up" - deep voices are usually considered a way to convey leadership.


See, I always thought the first anime Roy (Japanese voice) was waaaaay too deep and just sounded silly.
Plus, who else can you see playing Roy in English? I just can't think who else would be able to do that voice.

Also... I greatly prefer Riza's English voice... not only does she rock the backhanded comments and general snarkiness, the Japanese VA makes her sound far too young. She hasn't been so bad lately but I still don't think it really fits.


I've never heard his first anime Japanese voice. When it comes to the first anime Travis is the only Roy I "know". smile.gif But on the second anime and current voice - I think both voices totally fit Roy Mustang. Not to so deep as to sound ridiculous but not too high or thready sounding as to lack authority. They both sound age appropriate to me.

And I think I agree about the Japanese Riza sounding too young but it's a nice sounding voice anyway, pleasant. But not really what I'd expect of a woman in her late 20's with extensive military experience who is clearly thought of as Roy's "babysitter" and hall monitor. smile.gif

QUOTE
Thank you, Nagareboshi! So problem solved. We don't know whether or not Yasuhiro Irie thinks of royai as a romantic couple but now we're pretty sure he understands the dynamic of their relationship. I couldn't say it better myself. His definition pretty much says 'love'


I agree. I think that is a great definition and besides, it's not like "romantic" love is the best or deepest, it doesn't necessarily work that way. It's possible to love a platonic partner more than a romantic partner, etc. They are deeper and more dynamic than the romantic definition of love could cover.
iAmjelly
Totally delurking just to expand on this.

QUOTE
I agree. I think that is a great definition and besides, it's not like "romantic" love is the best or deepest, it doesn't necessarily work that way. It's possible to love a platonic partner more than a romantic partner, etc. They are deeper and more dynamic than the romantic definition of love could cover.


Personally, I think that calling it "romantic" love just makes it all flowery and kind of shallow and it sounds - well... romantic. And way cheesy. With Roy and Riza, I think it goes way deeper than just "romantic" love. Their kind of bond isn't something you could compare to even something like super glue. It's more like they're part of the same whole and one without the other just isn't right on so many levels.

Calling it "romantic" love would almost be an insult to their relationship.

Also, regarding the dub: Colleen did brilliantly. I have no words. She was amazing.
Cloud5614
As long as they didn't end up like they are at the movie (them falling apart, Roy going away from Riza......) , then I am ok..
hoprabbit
Colleen is absolutely amazing as Riza. Her voice is deep and she delivers the lines well. ^^ I don't much like the Japanese VA of either anime, she does sound young. In the newer episodes, she isn't so bad, however. And Roy is great in both, but I'm partial to Travis because, well, I can understand him in my native language. ^^;

Also, I agree that thier love isn't some little flingy thing. And it's definitely not obvious, were you just a passerby. It's in secret that they let a little of it go. XD
I'm also not entirely sure whether they're supposed to see how the other feels (Assuming that they are in love blah blah blah). I get that they know they can depend on each other....But it's really common in all shows and books for everyone around them to see something obvious and they don't.

But I'm hoping that's not the case. ^^
jacksparrow589
First thing I'm going to say is this: I agree 100% with the school of thought that the bonds between Roy and Riza go WAY deeper than simple romantic love. That said, probably 'cause I'm about the most hopeless romantic out there, I'd like to think that there's a bit of room for romantic love within (not quite what I want to say, but I had it written perfectly earlier and managed to delete the text sad.gif ) that deeper (are we calling it platonic?) love. Each can exist without the other, certainly, and you can see that when you look at best friends vs. ... um... most high school couples? (I'm trying to think of a relationship based mostly on romance, and not necessarily on those really deep bonds, here.) Anyway, point is that while they can exist separately, can't they also exist within the same relationship? Not saying that they go at it like rabbits when nobody's looking or anything like that, but just that I see the possibility. Does this make sense?

hoprabbit--Oh, I totally think they're aware of it! At least, on some level. Riza knows what she's about (i.e. she's dedicated to Roy's cause, and she believes in it, too), and Roy's not at all stupid, nor is he that shallow.
DistantBlue
I haven't been here for a while, so sorry if my post is irrelevent.

Royai is, to be simple, the best pairing I have ever read because it is SO MUCH MORE than just a romantic pairing, and I don't need to go on since you all have described how I feel, ha ha.

And that interview with their seiyuus? My first thought was "Well, neither anime had the Grumman scene with the 'marry my granddaughter' bit..." :-P

And I am verrrry behind on the FMAB episodes. I am about to watch 58 ha ha, even though I already watched the part with the throat-slashing raw. And there was something about the 'hanging on to eachother' scene in 107 that was changed/omitted?
Kaori Ayanami
I've just done my last check on FFnet for good fics in Spanish, and I've located many. Here I list the Royai ones ^^:

Una luz al final del túnel ("A light at the end of the tunnel"), by Yai ina: Post-chapter 102. Roy gets angsty and tries to pull a Shambala, so Riza does the best she can to make him go back to senses. Rated M (yeah, it's all by the approach).
Desde entonces ("From then on"), by angerulegna: Melancholic recollection of scattered memories, events, reports and even notes. It was supposed to happen after the movie, but it's been revised and now it's manga-compliant (but it makes more sense as a post-movie fic IMHO). It's kind of gloomy (and limey XD) but if you can handle that, it's a must. Rated T, yet unfinished.
Ojo de halcón ("Hawk eye"), by Narue Inverse: Ishval. 'Nuff said. Rated T, unfinished (sadly enough, it seems it will be that way for a long time T_T).
De la simetría de los mundos ("On worlds' parallels"), by angerulegna: AU, at our world. As the title suggests, in spite of the different setting (mafia instead of homunculi) the parallels are striking. Besides some visions being just out of the manga, I mean ^^. Rated T (mostly because of gunfights).
Oh well, everything angerulegna is good Royai, but I chose those two fics because I think they're the best of them all.
Como un patito feo ("Like an ugly duckling"), by Ilusion-chan: AU, with the Roy-tachi... as high school students. Believe me, it's not even half as bad as it sounds. Other than the school setting, is quite faithful. Rated K (that is, 5+), yet unfinished.

Also, "Un final" ("An ending"), by 00laua00. Can't post the link because it's kind of an add-on to chapter 108. PM me if you want the link. Rated K (5+).
<To avoid comments for the content of this fic and hence possible discussions for chapter 108 content on this thread, took out the link. Sorry! ~ Board staff>

Actually, I found more, but the others were not Royai, so I'll have to report them elsewhere XD. But it's more than enough to check up.
FailToImpress
QUOTE (jacksparrow589 @ Jun 23 2010, 11:21 PM) *
That said, probably 'cause I'm about the most hopeless romantic out there, I'd like to think that there's a bit of room for romantic love


I'm totally the same... hopeless romantic. rolleyes.gif

There's a good quote about platonic love:
"Platonic love is love from the neck up." - It's so true. This is so hard to explain, but I have a definition to explain it for me:

QUOTE
1. A pure, spiritual affection, subsisting between persons of opposite sex, unmixed with carnal desires, and regarding the mind only and its excellences; -- a species of love for which Plato was a warm advocate.
Platonic love, in its modern popular sense, is a non-sexual affectionate relationship,[1] usually between people who otherwise might be expected to be sexually involved with each other.


^That, is basically what I've thought of the nature of their relationship over the years.
I don't think there is much room for romance between them, simply because they can't let anything, and I mean anything, cloud their judgement. Being in love is a funny thing, it can totally change how you feel about things. I like to think that because Roy and Riza cannot afford to be romantic, their love has manifested itself into the kind of relationship I quoted. Romance can, and will, come after.

But who knows... I might be wrong! tongue.gif
rinoaebastel
@Kaori Ayanami oh...new ones? or old ones? The last time I read spanish fics ...mm I dont' remember but I think it's when I posted mine so...6 months ago... maybe lol
jacksparrow589
FailtoImpress--Good point! I didn't mean "ROMANCE NOW!", but I guess that might have been how it came out. Noooooo... Only when the time is right. They've got enough wits, self-control, etc. to recognize and follow through on that.
RoyxRizaFan
I found this scan while I was avoiding summer homework, and was wondering if anyone had seen it before:
http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/437071
I didn't recognize it...

Anyhow, about the platonic thing. I agree with everyone at the same time I've got the same thing as jacksparrow does in the back of my mind, but I like the way FailToImpress put it. That's what I've always liked about RoyAi - their deep, unspoken understanding of one another, that mature trust they share, and the way they are so devoted to one another and rely on one another. The way they silently interact has always made the little things they do say aloud seem so much more important, separating them from the more 'immature' manga relationships where too much was said, and the meaning was lost. Those two do love one another, and are the most important person in the other's life, and always will be. However, part of me can't help that someday in the future, when Roy's Fuhrer and the universe is safe and peaceful, that perhaps Riza can relinquish her job as his guard and, you know, become first lady. I don't see why not!! tongue.gif

I think someone said earlier that they kind of have a relationship like a couple that's been married several years, but when we talk about it like this, it always seems like their love is backwards - the mature years of understanding came first, and then any time for romantic love can come later on, rather than the conventional reverse XDD Gotta love RoyAi!!

I do believe, though, that their relationship is still growing. I mean, some people have said that they’ve been the same forever, but they are not the same two people who encountered one another in Hawkeye’s crumbling house. They changed as they went through the war together, as they joined the military and made their promises and set their goals. Even during the time of their lives we’ve been following, they’ve been changing as well. They know they can trust one another, but sometimes they had to learn from another, too – like when Riza gave up living, when Roy was blinded by revenge, or when he very nearly performed human transmutation to save her – they’re still learning from one another, and their relationship is still growing.
Michiyo-
I was bored so I made 2 panoramas, one from ep. 59 and one from ep. 62:
Royai panorama 1
Royai panorama 2

And I made a few icons too:

(WARNING!! The following images potentially contain BIIIIG SPOILERS for FMA:B anime ep 59/62 and related FMA manga chapter content!! If you haven't read/watched these and do not wish to be spoiled of the story, please do NOT click on these links!!!)
Roy x Riza 1, 100 x 100 Roy & Riza 1, 120 x 120

Roy & Riza 2, 100 x 100 Roy & Riza 2, 120 x 120

Roy & Riza 3, 100 x 100 Roy x Riza 3, 120 x 120

Roy & Riza 4, 100 x 100 Roy x Riza 4, 120 x 120

They're free to use, hope you like them. happy.gif

<Ahem... these are nice avatars, but before anyone use these as your avatars on our board, please make sure you read Reminder Regarding Images In Signatures/avatars, What is and is not permitted on our board. Thank you. ~ Your friendly Mod. >
Kaori Ayanami
Those fics are mostly old or started a long time ago, a couple have been updated recently ("De la simetría de los mundos" even got an ending XD). Only "Un final" is really new, maybe you could include "Una luz al final del túnel" too since it's post-102.
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