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Full Version: Hawkeye X Roy: The Royai Thread
Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > Fullmetal Alchemist Discussions > FMA Character Discussions
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Miss MP
Desperation is exactly what I see in Roy, too! And as horrible as this may sound, it is nice to see him reaction so intensely over this, which I think simply lends more credibility to the relationship in general. We have seen him angry and raging [regarding Hughes] and calm as a cucumber. But this desperation garners support on his side of it.

Wonder how many of us also haunt Naruto Forums.
alchemistpower
I can't seriously wait t'ill it gets animated...

Who celebrates Royai day? (July 13 if i'm not correct please correct me biggrin.gif)

I wonder what happens in chapter 102. The Lunar Elclipse :/
Lt. Misha Mustang
Uhh There's a royai day? I didnt know that....

Maybe there's some people that are from the Naruto fourms but the Royai club there is so dead. =[
paca
Awesome chapters as always biggrin.gif

the relationship, Subtel? maybe we should change it to natural~~~8D
hahahaha

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>chapter 101 and was is going arround there and here <333

Comunication- yes, acts are better than words!!! don't deny it xDDDD
I think the glare, was more than "I will kill you" _... looking away from him, as if she couldn't stand , alchemy doing that to many and "letting her go on", as she was seeing someone else getting lost in alchemy an insanity.... as looking back, maybe to her "own back"

people saying "it can't be!, why arakawaaa~~"
ok, so are you reading the same mana Ir ead or not??? xDDDDD
1st many are really close/fond or however you want to call it to the first anime >_> and that explains many things
2nd in every manga something happens more clearly, like :the author took a desicion, and 50% are really really happy, and 50% say she/he is totally out of her/his story !!

Arakawa said "I have Roy's groups destiny planed~~~~~~~~~" *insert mystical voice* , so this is not out of nowhere!
Mai saving her, to simple for you? Is not all for simple reasons, aren't all simple facts, one simple fact after another... they say it constantly.
The idea of Roy never choosing by his own? I don't think so. Why? Because he is always picking up his option, in fact with Envy, all try and it's just a "coinsidence" that he stops, Riza wasn't looking to stop him with those lines... And now under there, Riza is the one who protects him, she decided it maybe the very moment she goes to the same place he is, so can she let him open the gate to save her... she is like refusing his help, do it and I will hate you~~
And the idea he needs people? of course! It's been said by him, and others many many times >_>

Bradly had to apper (was a must!) he had said "I will make him open the door~~~~" now he needed to fix the fact that he didn't kill Roy to use him and now it is all usless...

QUOTE (Miss MP @ Nov 10 2009, 12:47 AM) *
Desperation is exactly what I see in Roy, too! And as horrible as this may sound, it is nice to see him reaction so intensely over this, which I think simply lends more credibility to the relationship in general. We have seen him angry and raging [regarding Hughes] and calm as a cucumber. But this desperation garners support on his side of it.

Wonder how many of us also haunt Naruto Forums.


Lust would have loved to see those desesperated eyes xDD

Now , Roy the 5th
Salim opened the door?
Is the doctor the body, the payment?Or the one which is going to be transmutated?
Roy's blood is in the circle thanks to Bradly...Which will be the payment if they have forced him into the door? or are they going to see father?



Kaori Ayanami
QUOTE (Irena @ Nov 10 2009, 02:30 AM) *
OMG YES xD That totally fits. Riza's GLARE = "you so much as think about human transmutation and I will KILL you SO HARD you will DIE TO DEATH."

"Royai telepathy, conveniently awaaake!" XDDD
(Had to say so).

Who knows... Maybe it will be omake's material. biggrin.gif
spectator
After Roy said: "you eyes said 'do it and I'll kill you'.", it was like the smile Riza had implies 'you do know your position, don't you?'

I guess Roy does know that he will die horribly if he ever open the gate. The hawk's glare is far worst than death. laugh.gif
Miss MP
Well, we all know Hawkeye wears the pants in the relationship. This is evidence. =P
Irena
QUOTE (Miss MP @ Nov 9 2009, 09:06 PM) *
Well, we all know Hawkeye wears the pants in the relationship. This is evidence. =P


Riza wears the pants, therefore she won't wear the miniskirt. (Looks like you're outta luck, Roy.)
Causmicfire
I'm actually with archronos(i believe it was) on the real eye signal being her telling him there was help above, in the panel

glare he's talking about is here the "do it and I'll beat you" one, then the eye signal is here ...yeah, she's looking up to the hole above Goldie's head, where their allies are in waiting.

Also, Roy tells Goldie "That's why the rug is being pulled out from under your feet." which makes me wonder why he would say that if he didn't know what was coming

I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that Roy could see what Riza was signaling from his view point, because he has to look up at Goldie when he's talking to him, and though Goldie did very much need Roy's lecture, it was a great distraction technique.

Anyway, just the fact that they can communicate like that from across a room when put in a high duress situation proves how close they are romantically or not based on one's own interpretation

The I've been ordered not to die line was great.

@alchemistpower - July 11th, in my sig there's a link to our archive of awesome for the 2009 festival

@The_Twilight_Trinity - Yes, those lines are quite the indicators for their family knowing...in fact, it reminds me of the kind of remarks my family would make in a situation where a relationship/feelings are being kept quite low on the radar
angelofsarcasm89
OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD.

SHE'S ALIVE AND WE GOT A HUG AND IN THIS MANGA THAT'S PRACTICALLY A CONFESSIONS OF TRUE LOVE.

*deep breath*

As for the people jumping on the "THEY'RE TOTALLY JUST FRIENDS" bandwagon, I'd like to point out the way he was holding her the whole time. That's more than just a "I'm just holding onto you so that you don't fall down" pose. It's an "I'm going to hold you like this so that if something else happens, I will automatically pull you into myself and turn away to shield you from whatever it is" pose.
FailToImpress
QUOTE (BirdieNumNum @ Nov 10 2009, 01:28 AM) *
Yet I've been seeing some negativity concerning Royai in various forums I've seen.

People are starting to say that Mustang and Hawkeye are just friends, and their relationship is purely platonic.


It COULD be platonic, that's the thing. As much as I like the pairing, I view it as objectively as possible and try not to see it how I want to see it.

It's hard to say for sure what kind of relationship they have when it's so subtle, and I can see why people have said what they've said. I mean, she wants to protect him so she probably does love him, but in what way? I honestly think it could be purely as friends, although it could be something more. I'd rather it was the latter. wink.gif

That said, it's not exactly the typical circumstance for a romantic relationship. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but often when people look out for each other as much as these two do, that can surpass the need for a romantic relationship.
SneakyRuler
I'm with you on this (and with JEELE). Though I can't see any other explanation than being in love for Riza, there's still slight possibility that Roy sees Riza only as his friend, supporter and guardian of his soul and sanity. BUT his emotions always run high when somebody of his people is injured (we've seen it with Havoc) and considering Riza's been his friend and supporter for years and he feels morally obliged to protect her plus he feels guilty that he was the reason she joined military... it still could be just platonic relationship.

On the other hand it's hard for me to see the pros and cons since I've been shipping them since the dark ages of anime1 wink.gif

But then again, what I've described this far can be called love. *shrugs* but not necessarily romantic love.

*hides in a corner and awaits to be shot*
Miss MP
She was mentioned as something akin to "precious woman" [I am new to Japanese, so the RAW takes time to get through; most scanlations have the line]. I simply find it silly that people would downplay it and blatantly ignore the context in which it was portrayed. No, this does not indicate that they WILL be together, because I do not think it is the style the author would try; this dynamic has been there for a long time.

Frankly, if this moment occured in any pairing, it would be difficult to deny the connection between them. This, on top of several other telling moments, is obvious.

And again, mentioned as his lover [or something similiar]. The author isn't one to toss out misleading instances regarding her pairings, so I do not see the reason why these implications should be taken as anything less than the context the words imply.
SneakyRuler
QUOTE (Miss MP @ Nov 10 2009, 03:16 PM) *
She was mentioned as something akin to "precious woman"
....
And again, mentioned as his lover [or something similiar].


Yes, she IS precious woman for Roy. But I refuse to take for a proof of their love just a fact that Dr. Goldtooth says she's Roy's lover. What does HE know? (OK, maybe I don't want to know...)

You see my point? I don't say Roy and Riza don't have feelings for each other but just a line from ol' good Goldtooth doesn't prove a thing.

Again, sorry if this sounds the wrong way, I read the raw about five times and watched the preview pictures for a whole day and was as excited as anybode else here. laugh.gif I didn't scream but I certainly grinned like an idiot the whole weekend.

Turdaewen
Well, I might say that, if a person still think they're not cannon... than they're not very familiar with Arakawa's work, because that's exactly the way she puts couples in her mangas. Unless they're married, like Sig and Izumi, the relationships are always very... natural, as was well putted.

Arakawa is very subtle in everything she does and you always need to pay attention to how she puts things to understand the dynamics between the characters. So, she'll not just put up and explain everything just plain and simple, just because 'that's not like people act in real life'! It sounds false, just like "Now, I'm going to use this technique with you!' as many mangas do.


But people are right in one thing: it doesn't mean they ARE a couple. I just that it makes clear that they are in love with eachother, but not that they're together. There's a big difference between the two.

But, since there's no need for an ACTUAL relationship for it to become cannon, only that both are 'in love', I guess it does make them cannon beyond doubt.
SneakyRuler
Thanks, Turdaewen. Even though I'm not familiar with Arakawa sensei's other works, I can see from where you are going, it's exactly from where I am going as well. Just couldn't put it in words so accurately.
It's just I can't seem to find any evidence against the 'other side'.

It's the subtlety of their acting towards each other what makes me like the pairing. I was very, very happy that after what happened in chapter 39, Roy didn't start 'Oh, you can't live without me? that's so sweet... I love you as well' but instead just scolded her for believing the enemy and giving up. That's what makes FMA different from other mangas I'd say.

OK, now I stop.
jacksparrow589
All right, really quickly, since I need to leave for class soon:

I was trying to write Royai a couple years ago, and was searching for the perfect quote. The one I decided on: "Love is giving someone the chance to destroy you, and trusting them not to."

I thought it fit perfectly.

*dashes off to class*
FMAobsessed
Isn't it possible for Roy and Riza to love each other and be friends?

They have a history together and have been through so much together, that they do need each other.

About the hug thing. I believe that the hug wasn't just "Oh my friend, you are safe." I do believe that he did hug her with relief. But if at the same time, he held onto her for several panels. Also Roy has been so careful about letting anyone see an emotional side to him. Especially the enemy. So I think that the fact that he held onto her in front of the enemy, while in a battle means something.
FailToImpress
QUOTE (Turdaewen @ Nov 10 2009, 02:47 PM) *
But people are right in one thing: it doesn't mean they ARE a couple. I just that it makes clear that they are in love with eachother, but not that they're together. There's a big difference between the two.

But, since there's no need for an ACTUAL relationship for it to become cannon, only that both are 'in love', I guess it does make them cannon beyond doubt.


Yeah, I don't deny that they love each other, I'm sure they do.
Personally I just think that because of the position they're in it might not necessarily be a romantic thing. There's romantic love and then there's platonic love, and I think people can forget that. *nods* smile.gif
jacksparrow589
Wow... I totally missed what Turdaewen said about the difference between being in love and being together. THAT really struck a chord with me. I had something else to say about this, but I forgot... sad.gif I do agree with FMAobsessed, though. It's clear that Roy cares about each and every one of his subordinates in some way, and they've ALL got a really deep trust going there, but to me, there's something special about that connection between Roy and Riza. FailToImpress, you bring up quite the valid point, though. (My head is spinning now. Talking about love is confusing sometimes!)

I realized in the middle of class that "destroy" should be more like "betray" in the quote I mentioned earlier. Between those two options, you could make quite the case for love in FMA.
Michiyo-
I just noticed something:

Roy is much taller than Riza in chapter 101! laugh.gif
Nagareboshi
QUOTE (Michiyo- @ Nov 10 2009, 12:49 PM) *
I just noticed something:

Roy is much taller than Riza in chapter 101! laugh.gif


I think the reason that he's taller than her in 101 is because she isn't standing up straight.
FailToImpress
QUOTE (jacksparrow589 @ Nov 10 2009, 05:47 PM) *
FailToImpress, you bring up quite the valid point, though. (My head is spinning now. Talking about love is confusing sometimes!)


Love IS confusing, unfortunately. rolleyes.gif It never goes to plan and things are always more complicated than they seem.

Like I said before, 'often when people look out for each other as much as these two do, that can surpass the need for a romantic relationship'. The pair obviously need (and have) a great deal of trust between them, more than that of their other subordinates. Their relationship was built upon on that trust etc, and in that way it's very different because romantic relationships are built on attraction and the like. It just makes for a very different dynamic is all... A platonic relationship could work better in their instance, because as lots of us know.... romantic love makes you do stupid things. If you love someone romantically, it feels very different to a strong platonic relationship. (okay I'm rambling now, you get the idea lol tongue.gif )

That's not to say they don't fancy each other, let's face it, they probably do because who wouldn't lol laugh.gif

But yes.... very confusing indeed. There's no wrong or right answer here. smile.gif
Miss MP
QUOTE (SneakyRuler @ Nov 10 2009, 08:44 AM) *
. . .
Yes, she IS precious woman for Roy. But I refuse to take for a proof of their love just a fact that Dr. Goldtooth says she's Roy's lover. What does HE know? (OK, maybe I don't want to know...)

Though if an "outside" character can pick up on it despite how subtle the relationship and their connection is, I would say it's there and obvious with the context. Why would that outside character use /those/ words to describe something platonic? Hawkeye has made it incredibly clear of her stance with Roy; she'd follow him anywhere she could. Mustang has shown his devotion to his precious people before [particularly his reaction with Envy regarding Hughes]. The difference is, his relationship with Hughes is shown platonically, brotherly [except in fanon, of course], whereas Hawkeye not only has some of the overlapping "comraderie" qualities, but a romantic dimension has been attached through proxy context. Note that I'm not implying this romance leads into the stereotypical aspects of marriage, children; in fact I don't believe it will because that isn't present in their dynamic. Still, there's been a slow shift between Hawkeye and Mustang; it has been steadily revealed that there is not merely trust and comraderie and mere promises; there are moments of jealousy, flirting, and insinuations from outside characters. They are "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" seconds in time. I don't find it prudent to assume it was platonic unless there were subtle insinuations of a "sisterly" regard toward Hawkeye, or perhaps a "parent-child" dynamic, "best friends" dynamic, et cetera. There is no evidence of those. At most we can speculate it is merely comraderie; but then, I don't feel jealousy, flirting, and sly comments like these, are very "friend-like", if you understand me.


QUOTE (FMAobsessed @ Nov 10 2009, 10:59 AM) *
Isn't it possible for Roy and Riza to love each other and be friends?

It is, and I do believe it's clear that the dynamic stemmed from deep trust; trust is present in many dynamics, and the lines have been made incredibly clear [paralleling the context of Edward and Winry's dynamics; there is a clear romantic dimension present].

QUOTE
They have a history together and have been through so much together, that they do need each other.

About the hug thing. I believe that the hug wasn't just "Oh my friend, you are safe." I do believe that he did hug her with relief. But if at the same time, he held onto her for several panels. Also Roy has been so careful about letting anyone see an emotional side to him. Especially the enemy. So I think that the fact that he held onto her in front of the enemy, while in a battle means something.

I agree with this.

Though what I can't necessarily agree with is the sentiment that romantic relationships are built wholly on base attraction; it IS part of it, but what sort of relationship can function without trust? Trust is in all forms. Friends into lovers is not uncommon, and to be honest, the only difference between a best friend and a boyfriend [or girlfriend] is the romantic spice. There is still trust, honesty, very similiar feelings to other dynamics.
FailToImpress
QUOTE (Miss MP @ Nov 10 2009, 07:13 PM) *
Though what I can't necessarily agree with is the sentiment that romantic relationships are built wholly on base attraction; it IS part of it, but what sort of relationship can function without trust? Trust is in all forms. Friends into lovers is not uncommon, and to be honest, the only difference between a best friend and a boyfriend [or girlfriend] is the romantic spice. There is still trust, honesty, very similiar feelings to other dynamics.


Okay, I just realised I mis-worded. I never meant that romance is based on attraction alone, I just meant it as it being one of the things that contribute to it. smile.gif Attraction is very important, and that counts for everything beyond the physical.
Of course a romantic relationship is based on trust, it's the most important thing.
Turdaewen
I don't think their relationship is 'platonic' at all. At the TRUE meaning of the expression, of course, not the popular one.

Nor is it just friendship, even though friends really do love eachother. It's just that, even if they haven't come to terms with it, yet, they have a dynamics of a couple, which are different from the dynamics of two friends, even when those friends are a man and a woman.

It's really hard to describe it, since most people think that it can't have no friendship between a man and a woman, but I dare say there is, since I've got one. And he's actually my ex-bf and we were together for over 2 years and it didn't work out exactly because of that: even though we love eachother (always have, always will), we didn't work as a couple, because our dynamics were always that of two friends. (and yes... I was attracted to him, at first, but it didn't last because it didn't felt right)

A couple has a sort of complicity and they sorta 'add to the other', they're complementary... You could say 'but friends can have that, too...' and yes, they do, but not to the same extend or even the same way. It's complicated to explain it in words, but, when you do have a partner, we get the difference. And I never really understood the difference until I broke up with this friend of mine and started dating my current boyfriend and then I got it! I understood what 'being a couple' really meant and why it hadn't work out with others, before.

And, from what I see from Roy and Riza, EVEN if they haven't really kissed or anything, they act like a couple, they have the dynamics of a couple, they talk like a couple, and not merely as partners or friends or family....

It's like the same difference between Winry and Al and Winry and Ed. They WAY they talk to eachother is different, and it's not only because Ed likes to tease and irritate Winry, it's something we can't pinpoint, but it's there! You see?

It's like Roy and Riza are two parts of one thing, they synchronize in a way that friends don't. To a point that you can't understand or describe one without the other.
RoyxRizaFan
I can't believe I'm late to the discussion of the one - if not the - greatest RoyAi moment of all time! I was sick, but meraciously felt better after reading this!

I officially forgive Arakawa for those ten months (which I haven't forgotten) where we had NO Roy, let alone Roy/Riza interaction. Those were rough, rough times, which ended when OH YEAH he hid behind a curtain in the hosptial, and they were so close, but couldn't talk, and it was all too cruel...no, I'll never forget that, but because Roy has been in the spotlight so much lately, I forgive Arakawa.

Ever since chapter 39, when we saw Riza reacting to Roy's 'death', I've been dying to see how Roy would react if it was Riza who was in really big danger (Gluttony doesn't count) He looked so desperate as he was trying to break free from the soldiers, and it was really heartwrenching as he called out to her, and poor Riza was...not in a good state.

And then the hug scene, where he was desperately clinging onto her...and the part about reading her expression, as him continuing to hold onto her because he was so shaken by what happened that he didn't want anything to happen.

Of course, the great thing about RoyAi is subtlty, but being a rabid fangirl, I need a little more than that now and then XD I know it's just a hug, but because it's RoyAi, where the most we usually get is a look (that only fans can interpret), it is probably the most we're going to get (until the epilouge where they get married, of course *ahem* I hope you heard that, Arakawa, unless you want angry stampedes of fans pardading your streets with torches...)

Oh, and everyone who said it wasn't canon is just in denial. I'm too happy to be objective at the moment. Maybe I'll have calmed down by next week biggrin.gif
The_Twilight_Trinity
Turdaewen, I don't think that you possibly could have explained this better. I totally agree. biggrin.gif



jacksparrow589
^Seconded. How is it that she always manages to do that? (Not to say that nobody else on here does that--I just know that I can RARELY say anything so... succinctly, maybe?) I guess it's a combination of life experience and insightfulness that, at 19, I don't yet possess. (I do understand the guy-as-only-a-friend thing, though. I've got that going on, too. Were I to go out with him, it just wouldn't work.)

I just know that Roy has reacted differently enough about Riza than about any other character, even before I really started analyzing it. As has been said, it's not that he treats anyone better--I just don't really have words for the difference.
RoyxRizaFan4ever
*breathes again after a month*

smile.gif

But does anyone know what it says to the left in the panel with Mei on page 30? Wondering if it's important...
The_Twilight_Trinity
Just a thought:

I was thinking that there is a great a significance to Roy and Riza when the Doctor said "Who will we transmute? Family? A friend? A lover?" I think that Riza can fall under each of these categories individually as well as all three at once for Roy. It depends on how you interpret their relationship, but to me it's as if he's directly saying that they knew that she was important to Roy in all of these ways (I suppose at that moment he's not referring directly to Riza, but at the same time, she really does seem to be the main focus of this statement).

Just thought I'd say it. I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned already, but it just came to mind. laugh.gif
_Jelly
When they cut Riza, I dont think they were completely expecting him to transmute HER but more so transmute anyone in exchange for the philosopher's stone to heal her. That's why he asked "Family? A friend? A lover?" incase her wanted to bring back someone else. Though those three terms can also refer to just Riza.

QUOTE (RoyxRizaFan4ever @ Nov 11 2009, 10:18 AM) *
*breathes again after a month*

smile.gif

But does anyone know what it says to the left in the panel with Mei on page 30? Wondering if it's important...

*vanishes until next month*

Something like "Dont squeeze her too hard or her wound will open again!" For some reason they didnt translate that part.
Kaori Ayanami
When "testing" the Royai relationship in my mind, I change Riza with Maes and imagine with him the Royai situations XD. Almost all of them do fit Maes; I can only think of two that could not fit, and those are extremely subtle: When Grumman talked with Roy about a marriage with Riza (the panel seems to be turned diagonally), and that panel where Roy was talking to Riza while embracing her after Mei healed her wound, because the speech bubble overlapped his face, and that was obviously intentional (besides, the "don't squeeze her too hard" is revealing enough biggrin.gif ).

Even Riza's breakdown at chapter 39 could have happened with Ed and Al, were they in the same situation. All so-called Royai moments show a tender and incredibly strong bond, but only the two above I talked about seem truly romantic to me.
hand-made-city
Ehh.. this "friends or something more" talk is growing daunting.. it's just showing up in too many places now.. I don't doubt their feelings for each other one bit, and that's all I'll say on the subject.

I have good news! The doujin I bought finally arrived! I took a few pictures (no access to a scanner, plus I'm not about to bend and possibly tear my very first doujin!) so please excuse the quality. I tried to fix them up a little bit though. These are four colored pages in the book, and they're so nice! Here's two of them:

RoyxRizaFan4ever
QUOTE (JELEE @ Nov 10 2009, 08:55 PM) *
When they cut Riza, I dont think they were completely expecting him to transmute HER but more so transmute anyone in exchange for the philosopher's stone to heal her. That's why he asked "Family? A friend? A lover?" incase her wanted to bring back someone else. Though those three terms can also refer to just Riza.

QUOTE (RoyxRizaFan4ever @ Nov 11 2009, 10:18 AM) *
*breathes again after a month*

smile.gif

But does anyone know what it says to the left in the panel with Mei on page 30? Wondering if it's important...

Something like "Dont squeeze her too hard or her wound will open again!" For some reason they didnt translate that part.


*slithers in*

Oh, thanks Jelee! It is pretty strange that it wasn't translated...I think it's pretty important.

And I agree with Kaori, just substitute Hughes for Riza and you can separate the friendly and the more-than-friendly more easily. wink.gif

*vanishes for another month*
Yikie
Because I love the 'hug-panel' so much, I've decided to color it ^w^:

http://yikie-chan.deviantart.com/art/Royai...r-101-143211690

Nagareboshi
QUOTE (Yikie @ Nov 10 2009, 10:31 PM) *
Because I love the 'hug-panel' so much, I've decided to color it ^w^:

http://yikie-chan.deviantart.com/art/Royai...r-101-143211690



Beautiful! You did such a good job coloring it!
BirdieNumNum
Nice colouring job there.

*is jealous of your talent*
Yikie
@Nagareboshi and BirdieNumNum: Thank you ^^!


On-topic: I think it's funny the more royainess (call it 'evidence', call it 'interaction' or whatever you want) we get, the more people get sceptical about their relationship and depict them as 'just' friends. And not when their relationship was shown much more subtle (the 'will they? won't they?'-fase) in the beginning.
Animeoldtimer
QUOTE (Yikie @ Nov 10 2009, 10:52 PM) *
@Nagareboshi and BirdieNumNum: Thank you ^^!


On-topic: I think it's funny the more royainess (call it 'evidence', call it 'interaction' or whatever you want) we get, the more people get sceptical about their relationship and depict them as 'just' friends. And not when their relationship was shown much more subtle (the 'will they? won't they?'-fase) in the beginning.


Yeah, I guess they could always give the arguement, "It's not a love hug. It's a 'man' hug, but with a woman." tongue.gif

I love that colored picture! Thanks for sharing!
The_Twilight_Trinity
QUOTE (Kaori Ayanami @ Nov 10 2009, 07:06 PM) *
When "testing" the Royai relationship in my mind, I change Riza with Maes and imagine with him the Royai situations XD. Almost all of them do fit Maes; I can only think of two that could not fit, and those are extremely subtle: When Grumman talked with Roy about a marriage with Riza (the panel seems to be turned diagonally), and that panel where Roy was talking to Riza while embracing her after Mei healed her wound, because the speech bubble overlapped his face, and that was obviously intentional (besides, the "don't squeeze her too hard" is revealing enough biggrin.gif ).

Even Riza's breakdown at chapter 39 could have happened with Ed and Al, were they in the same situation. All so-called Royai moments show a tender and incredibly strong bond, but only the two above I talked about seem truly romantic to me.


I agree with you with this on some ways, as there are definitely some ambiguous Royai moments. But what about the Barry the Chopper jealousy scene? Or the "They took my queen" scene (with Hughes....? awkward.... huh.gif) ? And there's also the tender way he speaks to Riza that you never really see when he talks to Hughes. And for some reason, I don't feel like the phone scene would have played out in the same way if it were Hughes instead of Riza. If the exact same circumstance with Pride happened with Hughes instead of Riza, I think there would be waaaay more people claiming Roy/Hughes was canon (I do understand that it is popular though....) Trying "go play with Maes-Chan" doesn't really seem to fly to me either.

39 definitely would not have gone the same way if Riza were Hughes. No way. But I do understand that it may be similar if it had been Ed and Al. But then again, Al absolutely needs Ed to live in order for his own survival.... I don't know if it's really accurate to compare what happened in 39 to how the situation might have been had it been Ed and Al instead and determine Roy and Riza's relationship from that standpoint.
Kaori Ayanami
I like this coloring too. It even gets anime-like.

QUOTE (Animeoldtimer @ Nov 11 2009, 06:20 AM) *
QUOTE (Yikie @ Nov 10 2009, 10:52 PM) *
@Nagareboshi and BirdieNumNum: Thank you ^^!


On-topic: I think it's funny the more royainess (call it 'evidence', call it 'interaction' or whatever you want) we get, the more people get sceptical about their relationship and depict them as 'just' friends. And not when their relationship was shown much more subtle (the 'will they? won't they?'-fase) in the beginning.


Yeah, I guess they could always give the arguement, "It's not a love hug. It's a 'man' hug, but with a woman." tongue.gif
OK, so I give reasoned arguments and you people give rants... Not cool, huh; not cool.

It's not about denying Royai. But seen in an objetive way, it's not blatant either. My opinion is that it does exist, but it is (and is also shown) in a Japanese style, so we non-Japanese can hardly take the same events as romantic. It's one of those cases when it's evident that the author has an idea in mind but doesn't bother to be clear about it, because he/she is relying on cultural bias (of the Japanese, in this case).

The "change Riza with Maes" method does give the necessary objectivity, because there is hardly anyone (besides Riza) that Roy loves more than Maes. The only difference I can think about is romantic love. A sweet one, but not overwhelming, and only surfacing briefly from time to time. Hardly ideal for me, but then again, I'm not Japanese.

EDIT: In order to answer the poster above. ^^

* Barry the Chopper jealousy scene: Believe me, it has happened almost the same way... with my brother XD. I could see my father behaving that way too. (Being a woman with male relatives can be hard sometimes sleep.gifU).
* The "They took my queen" scene: It didn't happen with Hughes... because he was dead by then. But Roy thought about his whole team. True, the other weren't but pawn, knight and the like, but you get the idea: not directly romantic.
* The tender way he speaks to Riza: It could be also out of him knowing her when she was very young and naive (and so was he). Not necessarily romantic.
* The phone scene: It could have happened with Maes. But only with him. Just try to imagine it with Havoc... *shivers*
* "Go play with Maes-Chan" XDDD: You do have a point with this one. One more to the list. wink.gif
* Chapter 39's breakdown: To be able to compare Ed and Al with Roy and Riza under the same circumstances, proves that there are similar traits in both relationships: strong attachment and undying loyalty. Yet we KNOW Ed-Al relationship is NOT romantic. On the other hand, that Ed or Al could have reacted the very same way as Riza doesn't prove that Riza COULDN'T have broke down out of love. If anything, the romantic shaping of Royai can be sorted out of other situations, but not this one. This only proves the importance Riza attachs to their bond (was that well worded???)
The_Twilight_Trinity
QUOTE (Kaori Ayanami @ Nov 10 2009, 09:35 PM) *
OK, so I give reasoned arguments and you people give rants... Not cool, huh; not cool.

It's not about denying Royai. But seen in an objetive way, it's not blatant either. My opinion is that it does exist, but it is (an is also shown) in a Japanese style, so we non-Japanese can hardly take the same events as romantic. It's one of those cases when it's evident that the author has an idea in mind but doesn't bother to be clear about it, because he/she is relying on cultural bias (of the Japanese, in this case).

The "change Riza with Maes" method does give the necessary objectivity, because there is hardly anyone (besides Riza) that Roy loves more than Maes. The only difference I can think about is romantic love. A sweet one, but not overwhelming, and only surfacing briefly from time to time. Hardly ideal for me, but then again, I'm not Japanese.


Ah. I see what you mean now.... I'm sorry that my inner rabid Royai fangirl came out in such force against your comment.....

Sorry about the rant. ^This argument is very rational. I shouldn't have gotten so defensive. I only meant to point out other situations where inserting Hughes didn't seem to work to me. I didn't realize that it ended up sounding abrasive until now. My bad....

EDIT:

QUOTE
* Barry the Chopper jealousy scene: Believe, it has happened almost the same way... with my brother XD. I could see my father behaving that way too. (Being a woman with men relatives can be hard sometimes sleep.gifU).
* The "They took my queen" scene: It didn't happen with Hughes... because he was dead by then. But he thought about his whole team. True, the other weren't but pawn, knight and the like, but you get the point: not directly romantic.
* The tender way he speaks to Riza: It could be also out of him knowing her when she was very young and naive (and so was he). Not necessarily romantic.
* The phone scene
* "Go play with Maes-Chan" XDDD: You do have a point with this one. One more to the list. wink.gif
* Chapter 39's breakdown: To be able to compare Ed and Al with Roy and Riza under the same circumstances, proves that there are similar traits in both relationships: strong attachment and undying loyalty. Yet we KNOW Ed-Al relationship is NOT romantic. On the other hand, that Ed or Al could have reacted the very same way as Riza doesn't prove that Riza COULDN'T have broke down out of love. If anything, the romantic shaping of Royai can be sorted out of other situations, but not this one. This only proves the importance Riza attachs to their bond (was that well worded???).


You make good points against mine, but I was only pointing out that these are moments that could not have happened if Riza was Hughes instead. I believe you are correct in that the Barry the Chopper scene and the way he talks to her may not necessarily mean romantic attraction. You also make a good points about chapter 39 (it's well worded enough to be understood, so you're fine biggrin.gif) Though in regards to that chapter, I think it's about how one interprets it. I've always thought it suggests romantic attraction, but you're very right in saying that it proves nothing but the strength of their bond (whether romantic or otherwise)

Again, sorry about the ranting.... You really do have good points there. I should have slowed down before firing up so much.
Animeoldtimer
Sorry about my poor attempt at a joke. I have no objection to having legitimate disagreements about Royai. They could still just be best friends, but I think it's more.
Kaori Ayanami
Don't worry, I know it's the Royai spirit in action. ^^

(By the way, I did minor edits afterwards ^^U)
The_Twilight_Trinity
QUOTE (Kaori Ayanami @ Nov 10 2009, 10:24 PM) *
Don't worry, I know it's the Royai spirit in action. ^^

(By the way, I did minor edits afterwards ^^U)


Ah okay. Yeah, about the phone scene--you're probably right, it still could have been Hughes. I think that I was thinking in more of the way that Riza reacted to the call though. Her expression and the "How does he manage to have such good timing"line-- though it's true they aren't necessarily romantic -- don't seem very Hughes like to me. Of course, I think that I took the "insert Hughes into the Royai moments" suggestion too far. I didn't really think to make allowances.

Also, about the queen scene, I'm taking into account that Roy=Roi=King so the reference to Riza as his queen always seemed like a romantic suggestion to me. But the point about him referring to his entire team makes it seem a little less like it could be romantic. Plus, the queen is really the only piece that could apply to her after all, so it really had to go that way, romantic or not.

I can just imagine:

"They took my pawn, my bishop, my rook, my knight.... and.... my other knight."

....Fail. biggrin.gif

That Royai spirit... It's always hijacking my common sense....
jacksparrow589
Yeah, we'll defend our beloved Royai to the death! Thankfully, it hasn't come to that, though. smile.gif

hand-made-city--Ohhh! Pretty! That looks like a BEAUTIFUL doujin!

Yikie--Lovely coloring job!
angelofsarcasm89
QUOTE (The_Twilight_Trinity @ Nov 10 2009, 11:31 PM) *
Also, about the queen scene, I'm taking into account that Roy=Roi=King so the reference to Riza as his queen always seemed like a romantic suggestion to me. But the point about him referring to his entire team makes it seem a little less like it could be romantic. Plus, the queen is really the only piece that could apply to her after all, so it really had to go that way, romantic or not.


You could argue that, but think about who wrote the line. Arakawa knows exactly what she's doing. She wouldn't put a line that's practically dripping with subtext like that in unless she wanted it that way.
flamexhawk
Woot! Let's not hide in the shadows anymore and horribly stalk this thread without shame/update every few months!

In relations with chapter 101, we have we and are producing a family. End of discussion.

Now, onto their relationship. My POV on it has changed over the years and now I've settled with the same basic idea that I'd like to believe is true: their feelings are mutual and perhaps even known on a mutual front. However, being adults and mature as they are, and having such a deep understanding and bond, they know that their feelings can't exactly be displayed through physical interraction - but in emotions and actions.

For me, Riza's loyalty to Roy is her way of not only choosing him to follow but showing that she is willing to do anything for him, that he is her most precious person. And Roy's closeness to her, and how she's almost always the one he picks to keep closest to him on missions and such, means that she's special to him and he strives to protect her, as a man should strive to protect the woman he cares for. This, inevitably, leads her to follow him on paths he handpicks her for and the whole process is intertwined, much like they are.

Sure, I'd love to see a Royai kiss or something of that caliber but the likeliness of that being in-character is slim. Not to mention, Arakawa doesn't seem to lean towards mushy, cuddly fluff (unless it's Izumi and Sieg <3) and more towards the inner complexity of a relationship, even if the relationship doesn't have a 'title', per se. Roy and Riza's understanding of one another is akin to two people in a long-standing relationship, and they do seem to regard one another as more than fellow soldiers and even as more than friends. However, unlike most couples, they don't get the chance to exchange kisses or hugs or hold hands. They have a goal to reach and, in my mind, perhaps they would be able to find time to show affection like a regular couple does only after their goal has been reached and they've secured it in their hands. The goal seems to be more important to them than having a real lover's relationship, which is what makes their interactions and relationship so special, that they would mutually sacrifice romance for a greater goal.

At least, in my world, I'd like to think they were aware of the other's feelings. And in that way, words aren't really needed.

Hooray for rants that make no sense ~
Time for bed. n w n
FailToImpress
QUOTE (Kaori Ayanami @ Nov 11 2009, 04:35 AM) *
It's not about denying Royai. But seen in an objetive way, it's not blatant either. My opinion is that it does exist, but it is (an is also shown) in a Japanese style, so we non-Japanese can hardly take the same events as romantic. It's one of those cases when it's evident that the author has an idea in mind but doesn't bother to be clear about it, because he/she is relying on cultural bias (of the Japanese, in this case).

The "change Riza with Maes" method does give the necessary objectivity, because there is hardly anyone (besides Riza) that Roy loves more than Maes. The only difference I can think about is romantic love. A sweet one, but not overwhelming, and only surfacing briefly from time to time. Hardly ideal for me, but then again, I'm not Japanese.


I totally agree ^ smile.gif
Arakawa put in the hug, but she can have it mean whatever she wants. It's just us who have to work out what it means, so to say. Just because two close people hug, who happen to be a man and woman, doesn't necessarily mean that it's romantic. Of course that's the conclusion most people would jump to given their circumstance, and each of their personalities.

I also agree about the Japanese culture influence, someone had mentioned that before and I hadn't even thought about it, but it does make sense.
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