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hand-made-city
Yep, I agree with jacksparrow589 about the gate issue...... while I'm pretty sure none of the characters would open the gate for the homunculi, the homunculi might try to force them, regardless. That's why I feel something might happen between Wrath and Mustang....... the gate is more like a pretext for them to fight now. biggrin.gif
FMAobsessed
Thanks for all the fanart rzerox21xx!

I feel like I haven't posted anything in forever.

But it is almost August, which means that I will be starting to speculate about the upcoming chapter. I hope Roy and Riza are in it. Although I hope so for all chapters. But Greed and Wrath are a definite.

I too have wondered about Riza being killed to foce Roy to open the gate or doors due to his grief. I know it is a cliche, but sometimes cliches work. And if that did happen for some reason, we all know that Arakawa could take something so cliche, and make it wonderful and full of Royai.
hand-made-city
QUOTE (FMAobsessed @ Jul 29 2009, 11:02 PM) *
Thanks for all the fanart rzerox21xx!

I feel like I haven't posted anything in forever.

But it is almost August, which means that I will be starting to speculate about the upcoming chapter. I hope Roy and Riza are in it. Although I hope so for all chapters. But Greed and Wrath are a definite.

I too have wondered about Riza being killed to foce Roy to open the gate or doors due to his grief. I know it is a cliche, but sometimes cliches work. And if that did happen for some reason, we all know that Arakawa could take something so cliche, and make it wonderful and full of Royai.


And I feel like I'm posting way too much.... *sheepish* But it's fun!

Riza being killed in order to force Roy to open the gate could make for a great Royai scene........ but then it's all over. No more Riza! ohmy.gif Unless Roy manages to.. bring her back? Which I don't see happening. So... if something bad needs to happen to Riza to get Roy into action, hopefully it'll be something less drastic, rather than her death! *prays* I couldn't imagine losing either one of them! I'd be heartbroken if one of them died!
jacksparrow589
Now that FMAobsessed mentions it, I've put the two together: Greed and Wrath are in this next chapter, but Wrath may or may not be coming for Roy.

Somehow, I feel like it's Olivier who might be up against Wrath after Greed, though. You have to admit, that'd be pretty cool...

But back to Royai. I really think that if it came down to it, Roy would be able to cling to the idea, sad as it is, that even if Riza were to be killed, he'd pretty much have nothing left to lose, and therefore still refuse to cooperate. I mean, once the homunculi lose the leverage, it's gone. What are they gonna do--physically force him to complete a circle? Dear God, I hope not!

But losing leverage... they never really had it in the first place. A lot of Roy's reaction to losing his subordinates was momentary shock. I mean, rebellious as he is, you'd think he'd at least guess that the state would get after him and punish him for it. There was always the risk, and if he didn't react that way, Wrath would've noticed and probably done worse. Not that Roy's heartless or anything. He cares, and I'm sure that there was a momentary, "ohpleaseno!" going on there, but there was probably a contingency plan in there somewhere.
DistantBlue
About Wrath, I bet he's going after Mustang, or maybe Hawkeye first in order to get to Mustang.

He has observed and stood above Mustang since the civil war - he knows his strength and weakness, which are eachother - he ihas, directly from the Viz translation, 'a kind heart' (I think it was 'is too kind' in the scanlations) , and this was aquired from seeing Mustang and Hawkeye together in 39. He chose his own wife - he would understand (probably?) how important Hawkeye is to Mustang, and I think the splitting up of his subordinates was to go on that and find out for sure if that's how he felt about her. Being 'in charge of the Flame Alchemist', I don't think he's going to pass up an opportunity to sway him to cooperate now that the three of them are relatively in the same area, without formal or military boundaries.

Also, it would work with that thing I posted earlier around the same time I was dubbed my demotivational poster box about the Flag and two swords from the Fuhrer's offiice when Hawkeye said 'I will follow you even into hell'. Just thought of that now.

OFF TOPIC, WILL MOVE LATER TO APPROPRIATE THREAD, SRRY (its late man): To be honest, I'm not sure if 'opening the gate' means what we all think it means. I mean, the way he said it right after he told Father about his 'strength/weakness' makes me think it is something else.
black~hayate
QUOTE (DistantBlue @ Jul 30 2009, 06:11 AM) *
OFF TOPIC, WILL MOVE LATER TO APPROPRIATE THREAD, SRRY (its late man): To be honest, I'm not sure if 'opening the gate' means what we all think it means. I mean, the way he said it right after he told Father about his 'strength/weakness' makes me think it is something else.


Yeah, there are other ways to open the Gate. Ed haz proven it. (I am also a little offtopic >D).
But the idea with the "kind heart", I like it. Or better: Let Wrath die before he can do any harm.

RoyxRizaFan
Wrath is kind of a wild card - you don't know what he's going to do from here on out. He seems dedicated to what he does and he had a perfect understanding of humans, but part of him IS human itself, as we especially saw when he was talking about choosing his wife.

His statement about his wife could mean that he's going to use his knowledge of human relationships against the two (if he does plan on doing anything) or that he will try and be unable to finish it. I mean, they're keeping his wife out of danger at the moment (kind of) aren't they? IDK, I think something will come up with his wife that may lead him to make a decision against Father Dude.

I trust Arakawa no matter what she does. If she goes with cliche ideas, I know she'll turn it around and make it epic with her super cow powers.

black~hayate
QUOTE (RoyxRizaFan @ Jul 30 2009, 04:20 PM) *
I trust Arakawa no matter what she does. If she goes with cliche ideas, I know she'll turn it around and make it epic with her super cow powers.


I wish I could... she may kill someone *coughcough RizaorRoy* or leave our favourite characters out of the manga for a...year or so biggrin.gif .
Turdaewen
I think the 'Riza being killed to make Roy open the gate' would be senseless and illogical, actually... For one small detail:

Does anyone else remember the talk between Pinako and Hohenheim?? He asks if the thing the Elrics transmuted was actually Trisha. And then later Ed calls up Izumi and asks if the thing that came back from the portal was her son, right??
What was Hohenheim actually trying to say and that Ed figured out brilliantly? That even with human transmutation, you cannot bring anyone back to life. Once someone dies, there's no turning back. There's no way anyone can bring a person back from the dead!

Which also means that Al is still alive and being 'fed', by a sort of mind-link, by Ed. And that's what made Edward stand hope to recover Al's body: because he's not dead, his body has just being held up inside the portal. (and probably one of the reasons why Ed grows so slowly, since he eats and sleeps for both their bodies)

The Homunculi wouldn't be stupid enough to try to make someone perform a human transmutation to bring back a dead person, since Ed already knows there's no point in trying human transmutation for that. It would be a HUGE logic breach if they did.


Since I re-read that part of the manga, it looked like the whole concept of that theory had gone down the toilet.

It would be more logic to threaten to kill Riza than actually killing her.
Forsaken Love
killing riza to make roy open the gate would be pointless, hughues died and he never tried to open the gate for him, but he did say that he thought he understood what the elrics felt when they tried to ressurect their mother, also he knows what would happen just from looking at ed and al, so i dont think they'd do anything like that, maybe the bad guys'll threaten to kill riza if he refuses to open the gate, thats more plausible me thinks
Tombow
@rzerox21xx - Thanks for posting these fanarts! Some lovely pics there biggrin.gif

@hand-made-city - Thanks for the translation! biggrin.gif

BTW, "whether or not Riza may get killed to make Roy open the gate" discussion is not really off-topic here, so you can continue the discussion here if you'd like, but the discussion may soon get lost in 1000 plus pages.. so, if you'd like to have this discussion on more easily "retrievable" thread, or you guys would like to share the discussion with non-Royai thread posters as well, then we do have Will Hawkeye be killed to force Roy to open the gate? discussion thread also. (Just as your option) biggrin.gif
RoyxRizaFan
Hm, good points.

And I was wondering: does anyone know of any Riza Hawkeye wigs they could recommend? I'd like to cosplay her again, but last time I didn't bother with a wig and just did my hair like hers (because the costume had already drained my wallet).
spectator
RoyxRizaFan: Oh cosplay! I don't know where to get a wig like Riza's but if your hair is blond, just clipped your hair. I think the challenge is to set the bang. It's quite hard to style it. Maybe put some hair gel or use hair dryer will help.
RoyxRizaFan
Thing is, I have brown hair, which is why I want to do a better job this year and get a wig. (surprisingly, a ton of people still took pics of me even without a wig!)

hand-made-city
QUOTE (spectator @ Jul 30 2009, 06:12 PM) *
RoyxRizaFan: Oh cosplay! I don't know where to get a wig like Riza's but if your hair is blond, just clipped your hair. I think the challenge is to set the bang. It's quite hard to style it. Maybe put some hair gel or use hair dryer will help.


You know what's funny though, is that I've got Hawkeye bangs. Lol! They come naturally on me, for some reason. But I've got dark brown hair and it's longer than Riza's so in the end, I'd need a wig too if I ever cosplayed her! I'm not a cosplayer though... I can't make costumes to save my life. You should see me on Halloween. laugh.gif


As for where to get a wig, I have no suggestions... but if you think you can do it, you can probably just get a regular blonde wig and style it yourself.
Kale Mustang
QUOTE (RoyxRizaFan @ Jul 30 2009, 04:00 PM) *
Thing is, I have brown hair, which is why I want to do a better job this year and get a wig. (surprisingly, a ton of people still took pics of me even without a wig!)


Most of the girls/women I saw cosplaying as Riza usually dyed their hair rather than going the wig route. As for the bangs, most of them didn't really bother to make it look like it came from the manga/anime as it looks really awkward in real life.

One day though, I'd love to see someone cosplaying as Riza in her civilian clothes, accompanied by a Hayate. smile.gif
jacksparrow589
Turdaewen--Good eye. I think that pretty much settles it for me. The homunculi and Father have got to know that much about the gate. And now I have more hope.

Still, I don't know whether or not Wrath is finished with them yet. Ling may be only a temporary setback. Or, as has been suggested, Wrath is gonna pull a Greed flip on everyone. But back onto Royai: He tried to keep them apart once, but NOTHING can break the bonds of Royai love! (Okay, there was more to it than that, and I might be exaggerating just a little, but you all know it's true! I'm just normally not so fangirlish about it.)
spectator
QUOTE (Kale Mustang @ Jul 30 2009, 06:10 PM) *
QUOTE (RoyxRizaFan @ Jul 30 2009, 04:00 PM) *
Thing is, I have brown hair, which is why I want to do a better job this year and get a wig. (surprisingly, a ton of people still took pics of me even without a wig!)


As for the bangs, most of them didn't really bother to make it look like like it came from the manga/anime as it looks really awkward in real life.



it's not awkward if you have an expert hair stylist! *thumb's up*

About cosplaying, I remember I have watched a video of ppl cosplaying Roy and Riza on their wedding day! It was such a rare scene.

Aribelle
QUOTE (spectator @ Jul 30 2009, 08:12 PM) *
it's not awkward if you have an expert hair stylist! *thumb's up*

About cosplaying, I remember I have watched a video of ppl cosplaying Roy and Riza on their wedding day! It was such a rare scene.

That's adorable! I saw this cute picture once of Royai cosplayers on a bridge. Perhaps someone from this thread posted it ^^; but it was reeeeally great. If I can find it again I'll post it...

And as for the bangs - yes, it'd be impossible to be able to get them exactly as they are in the manga. But with enough hairspray and bobby pins you can probably get pretty close laugh.gif
hand-made-city
Sorry to change subjects so suddenly, but I just thought of something interesting while re-watching some of the Brotherhood episodes... In episode 5 when Ed and Al are at HQ and run into Riza, she doesn't hesitate to tell them that Nina and Tucker are dead. She says "You were going to find out sooner or later, so I'm telling you now: they're dead."

And then I thought of the more recent episode where Roy is unable to tell the brothers that Hughes died. I really like the small but prominent personality differences between Roy and Riza... after noticing that, I was pretty impressed with Riza's composure! She's completely honest and upfront. I love it! biggrin.gif
Forsaken Love
lol ye, mustangs just a big softie at heart XD lol
FMAobsessed
@hand-made-city Good observation about Riza and Roy. Roy is a big softie. At the same time Riza doesn't seem cruel for telling Ed and Al about Nina's death, because they were going to find out.
Forsaken Love
Riza didnt seem too impressed when Roy didnt tell them about Hughues, I think she was using the same logic that they would find out anyway but i was like awwwwwwww roy though at that chapter xD
spectator
QUOTE (hand-made-city @ Jul 31 2009, 01:30 AM) *
And then I thought of the more recent episode where Roy is unable to tell the brothers that Hughes died. I really like the small but prominent personality differences between Roy and Riza... after noticing that, I was pretty impressed with Riza's composure! She's completely honest and upfront. I love it! biggrin.gif


about that, there is a sound file, i remember, which Riza told Roy and the Elrics that she's a romanticist. laugh.gif

It might be a hint for Roy on how to catch her heart.
amestris_star
That's what nice about Roy and Riza after all, their differences make them even more special, for example, if Riza is more blunt when it comes to these things, especially with Roy, for example telling the Elrics about Maes' death... Roy is more of the protective type and tends to think more about these sort of things prior to take any action.

And tomorrow is August 1st. Countdown for new chapter (and hoping for some Royai) will start soon smile.gif
rainbowcatgirl
Ahhh! I can't wait for the new chapter and some royai!

I have a feeling that one will not live without the other, in other words if Roy dies Riza would most likely kill herself, yet if Riza dies I think that Roy would keep on living ( To be President )

biggrin.gif Yeah ! Their differences is what makes their relationship seem so simply complex smile.gif

I love oxymorons
Kale Mustang
Roy definitely is the protective type - but is also quite impulsive when someone he cares about is in danger.

Riza is as well, though she's far more methodical and patient in most situations, the exceptions of course being when Roy jumps the gun so to speak.
The_Twilight_Trinity
QUOTE (rainbowcatgirl @ Jul 31 2009, 12:40 PM) *
Ahhh! I can't wait for the new chapter and some royai!

I have a feeling that one will not live without the other, in other words if Roy dies Riza would most likely kill herself, yet if Riza dies I think that Roy would keep on living ( To be President )


I can't wait either!!! And it looks to me that the new chapter and episode 19 of Brotherhood will come out within days of each other! There is huge potential for Royai overload!!!! GAH!!!!

As for Riza killing herself without Roy, I've always thought the same thing, though I really can't say for sure. Chapter 95 might suggests that she would but again, not sure. It would seem a little bit overdramatic for her character, but at the same time, what would she live for? Most of the manga suggests that the majority of her lifetime has been devoted to Roy and to his goal. And I agree that Roy would definitely carry on even if Riza died, but he would be super depressed.
Tombow
QUOTE (The_Twilight_Trinity @ Jul 31 2009, 03:31 PM) *
As for Riza killing herself without Roy, I've always thought the same thing, though I really can't say for sure. Chapter 95 might suggests that she would...

Sigh... here we go again. Please don't tell me that you guys read some overly-melodramatic FMAish chapter 95 scanlation that made Riza says some melodramatic fabricated lines like, her corpse lying next to Roy's corpse blah blah and you are basing your opinion about Riza killing/not killing herself if Roy dies, on that...do you?? Just in case you do, let me just say that in REAL FMA manga chapter 95, Riza NEVER said anything about her corpse lying next to Roy's corpse. I'm getting rather tired of going over this "wrong characterization of Riza based on some scanlation with misinformation/inaccurate or fabricated/"overly creative" translation" thing again, so I wouldn't go any further, but yeah, that line is a fabrication and NOT in the real FMA chapter 95, not to mention I very much disagree with the interpretation of what Roy said and Riza said in that chapter in that FMAish story that's out there as a scanlation of chapter 95. It may make "fun" reading as some scanlated FMAish story, and if you enjoyed reading it, I 'm glad you did. But please do not base your opinion of what Riza may or may not do on some fabricated material that's not even real FMA story. If you guys wonder what Riza actually said in that line, then you can find the explanation somewhere on my post on this thread. I think I went over this at least three or four times on this thread alone, so I hope you can find some of them somewhere. smile.gif
hand-made-city
I was just thinking the same thing, Tombow. We've seen this conversation happen many times now on this thread alone... if Riza were to kill herself, it would NOT be because she couldn't live without Roy... I don't really like the idea of that either.
Tombow
@rzerox21xx - Thank you!! biggrin.gif

Finally had a chance to watch episode 17 on Funimation.com where I can get better audio on my computer. Makes me happy! biggrin.gif

Earlier on this thread I saw some discussions about Riza slamming the door during this episode. You guys saw that she INTENTIONALLY slammed the door with over-the-top manners (for her, at least, IMO ^^) to give the impression to the workers (soldiers) in the office who are gossiping that "now even Roy's subordinates are disgusted at him," to make them believe as if even Riza is mad at Roy for what he has done (and hence requesting the vacation to get away from him) ..right? At least, that's my interpretation of the scene. biggrin.gif
Turdaewen
QUOTE (Tombow @ Jul 31 2009, 09:46 PM) *
@rzerox21xx - Thank you!! biggrin.gif

Finally had a chance to watch episode 17 on Funimation.com where I can get better audio on my computer. Makes me happy! biggrin.gif

Earlier on this thread I saw some discussions about Riza slamming the door during this episode. You guys saw that she INTENTIONALLY slammed the door with over-the-top manner, to give the impression to the workers (soldiers) in the office who are gossiping that "now even Roy's subordinates are disgusted at him," to make them believe as if even Riza is mad at Roy for what he has done (and hence requesting the vacation to get away from him) ..right? At least, that's my interpretation of the scene. biggrin.gif

That's exactly what I thought so, too... She did it as an act to make people believe she was actually taking a vacation because she was mad at Roy.
But people seemed to have translated "omori" quite wrong, here in Brazil, because I was quite sure that 'ano hito wa omori" would mean that she kept Roy under control, not that she was too strict... is that right, Tombow?
Tombow
@Turdaewen - Yes, I'm with with your interpretation. smile.gif
Forgiven
Anybody watch the X-Files? If so, can anybody agree with me when I say this:

Fox Mulder=Roy Mustang
Dana Skully=Riza Hawkeye
The_Twilight_Trinity
QUOTE (Tombow @ Jul 31 2009, 01:58 PM) *
Sigh... here we go again. Please don't tell me that you guys read some overly-melodramatic FMAish chapter 95 scanlation that made Riza says some melodramatic fabricated lines like, her corpse lying next to Roy's corpse blah blah and you are basing your opinion about Riza killing/not killing herself if Roy dies, on that...do you?? Just in case you do, let me just say that in REAL FMA manga chapter 95, Riza NEVER said anything about her corpse lying next to Roy's corpse. I'm getting rather tired of going over this "wrong characterization of Riza based on some scanlation with misinformation/inaccurate or fabricated/"overly creative" translation" thing again, so I wouldn't go any further, but yeah, that line is a fabrication and NOT in the real FMA chapter 95, not to mention I very much disagree with the interpretation of what Roy said and Riza said in that chapter in that FMAish story that's out there as a scanlation of chapter 95. It may make "fun" reading as some scanlated FMAish story, and if you enjoyed reading it, I 'm glad you did. But please do not base your opinion of what Riza may or may not do on some fabricated material that's not even real FMA story. If you guys wonder what Riza actually said in that line, then you can find the explanation somewhere on my post on this thread. I think I went over this at least three or four times on this thread alone, so I hope you can find some of them somewhere. smile.gif


Ah! I'm sorry.... I suppose I put too much faith in the scanlations.... I really didn't know it was that far off from the actual text. Sorry for being ignorant. And I suppose that I missed your explainations Tombow, even though you explained it several times. I'll have to go back at some point and look for that, because I'd hate for you to have to explain it again. But that's good to know that's not what she actually said. I don't like being misinformed, so I'm glad that I know it now, rather than never catching that error. So thank you very much Tombow for pointing this out! And I hope you don't have to do it again.....

That definitely changes my whole opinion about the matter then, because Riza's character goes against such drastic action.... I just thought because of what she "said" in scanlation of that chapter that that's what she would do. But I'm still curious as to what she would do if Roy died. She wouldn't kill herself, but something really dramatic with would happen. Again, not as dramatic as suicide, but still, I wonder. Any thoughts?
RizaXRoy
@rzerox21xx: Thanks for bringing up the fanarts!! so Cute!! biggrin.gif

@Tombow: At first, I know that Riza did it intentionally to show something..But I didn't think much of what she wanted to show..Now I can get the picture as you and Turdaewen just explained in detail, thanks ya!! biggrin.gif Riza's slamming door just so hilarious to me!

@Forgiven: Oh..I don't watch X-file..their relationship is almost the same as Royai's?? Btw, I never expect to see FMA drama but hope to see FMA in 3D just like FF7: Advent Children, then I can see a super handsome Roy and pretty Riza. I can imagine that they look very good in 3D. XD

@The_Twilight_Trinity: Since I never think Roy will die, so I have no thoughts of what Riza will do... tongue.gif ..Mm..probably just stay tough and take care of Madame Christmas? haha..I really have no ideas..

Yes, we can watch the next episode tomorrow~ Riza vs Gluttony or Not yet? sigh, just wait and see~
Aribelle
@The_Twilight_Trinity - here is Tombow's translation of that chapter - Riza does say she'd end her life but not because she'd be living in a world without Roy.

If Roy did die though, I think she'd have a tough time...we saw how she was in chapter 39 when she thought he was dead ;_;. She has completely given herself to his cause, and so if he were to die I think she'd be a bit lost...although I like to think that at this point she'd do her best to carry on and try her best to carry out his dream of a democracy.

@Forgiven - I haven't seen any episodes of The X-Files in many many years, but oddly some friends of mine were comparing Royai to Mulder and Scully the other day XD so now I think I'm gonna have to watch it.
SneakyRuler
I loved Riza slamming the door scene. It was funny and totally unexpected, not manga but in the spirit of it. And it explains why she suddenly took a few days off. Excelent move!

Regarding chapter 95, I always understood that Riza said she would kill herself... as in "I destroy my body with the tatto on" thing. She said something like "I don't intend on living a peaceful life after that" ... well. Let's hope it won't come to this anyway.

And Riza in here looks so beautiful, Brotherhood should hire the person who draw her. Thanks rzerox21xx, great find!

----

Totally off topic: Forsaken Love, your avatar and especially sig are INSANE! Can't help but burst into giggles every time I see your post.
spectator
about chapter 95, what did she mean by 'I will destroy my body, and along with it the Flame Alchemy that turns otherwise decent human minds into madness'?
kkg22104
QUOTE (spectator @ Aug 1 2009, 10:22 AM) *
about chapter 95, what did she mean by 'I will destroy my body, and along with it the Flame Alchemy that turns otherwise decent human minds into madness'?


Remember, she has the secret for flame alchemy tattooed onto her back, so if her body disappears no one else will know how to use it. (At least, that's how I interpret it tongue.gif)
Forsaken Love
QUOTE (SneakyRuler @ Aug 1 2009, 11:50 AM) *
I loved Riza slamming the door scene. It was funny and totally unexpected, not manga but in the spirit of it. And it explains why she suddenly took a few days off. Excelent move!

Regarding chapter 95, I always understood that Riza said she would kill herself... as in "I destroy my body with the tatto on" thing. She said something like "I don't intend on living a peaceful life after that" ... well. Let's hope it won't come to this anyway.

And Riza in here looks so beautiful, Brotherhood should hire the person who draw her. Thanks rzerox21xx, great find!

----

Totally off topic: Forsaken Love, your avatar and especially sig are INSANE! Can't help but burst into giggles every time I see your post.


why thankyou XD i was in a state of laughing madness last night and edited tonnes of em XD I can't take myself seriously after posting lol

i liked the slamming the door bit, it made roy look more guilty XD
Turdaewen
QUOTE (kkg22104 @ Aug 1 2009, 11:34 AM) *
QUOTE (spectator @ Aug 1 2009, 10:22 AM) *
about chapter 95, what did she mean by 'I will destroy my body, and along with it the Flame Alchemy that turns otherwise decent human minds into madness'?


Remember, she has the secret for flame alchemy tattooed onto her back, so if her body disappears no one else will know how to use it. (At least, that's how I interpret it tongue.gif)


And also, it means she feels guilty. She's responsible for Roy becoming the Flame Alchemist.
In a way, her father was already 'mad' because of his research and everything. It's like the Flame alchemy is a sort of maddening power and, if Riza hadn't revealed it to Roy, he would still be that pure, idealistic man he was when they both met. She doesn't want to destroy another life with such a secret.

She feels herself responsible not only for the death of those people she killed but for all the people Roy killed as well, cause she was the one who gave him that power. It's almost as if she sees Roy as a victim of her own ingenuity, cause he didn't know how dangerous the flame alchemy could be, but she should, seeing her father decay every day. So, if Roy completely 'lost it', it would be 'her fault'.Or so she seems to think.

That's also one of the reasons I think that kept her by Roy's side all these years: she wanted to make amendments for changing his life so much, destroy his dreams, take away his innocence. Just as well as to make sure it didn't happen again: a sort of damage control. I believe she holds herself a lot more responsible for everything that happened and she doesn't blame Roy. He was just too pure.
Tombow
QUOTE (kkg22104 @ Aug 1 2009, 10:34 AM) *
QUOTE (spectator @ Aug 1 2009, 10:22 AM) *
about chapter 95, what did she mean by 'I will destroy my body, and along with it the Flame Alchemy that turns otherwise decent human minds into madness'?

Remember, she has the secret for flame alchemy tattooed onto her back, so if her body disappears no one else will know how to use it. (At least, that's how I interpret it tongue.gif)

Exactly. She has been forced to be the custodian of that secret (without her choice, I guess) then trusted Roy with that secret (flame Alchemy) and if Roy prove to be "failure" as in going mad and using that Flame Alchemy for his own mad revenge, then Riza wouldn't trust anyone else...if Roy can't even keep his sanity with it, then who can... so, to destroy the Flame Alchemy, she has to destroy her body that carries the secret of Flame Alchemy.
Yes, in that scene, THAT is what RIZA meant by her mentioning about (destroying) her body. NOT for romantically her laying dead next to Roy's dead body.
Also, the timing. The scanlated translation makes it read as if, if Roy dies then Riza would die INSTANTLY, to lay dead next to him... it might have not meant to be read that way, but many read that line that way in that scanlation, it seems. And, that would be CLEARLY WRONG, IMO, as what Riza meant was that she would finish the job of fighting the bad guys (and restore the peace to the Amestris) and then and only then she would no longer need to live...and again, that is NOT coming from just because the "object of her love," Roy is no longer alive. The reason she loses the purpose of living then is because right now the only purpose of her living (beside keeping the check on Roy with his Flame Alchemy as the custodian of that Alchemy) is to "carry the sin of Ishval War within her generation" as this was the sin done by people of her generation, so that the next generation wouldn't have to carry it...meaning, she, along with others who had carried the sin of Ishval War, and still surviving, would do everything, even all the dirty works, to restore the right out of wrong done, amend the damage that had been done, and restore the Amestris to peace time for the next generation. After that, after it's all done, then her purpose is done and after that she would not wish to go on living easy life...this part is coming from "SURVIVOR'S GUILT" ... with so many died in the war and with so many she had killed in the war, and so many died in the fight against Father and the gang, including ROY if she ended up killing Roy here, and after all that she feels guilty if she would just go on having her merry life.. That's what she mean that she would not wish to go on living...NOT just because Roy died, then she would go "oh no, the love of my life died!! I'm going to kill myself!!" like so many people seem to have gotten from reading that particular scanlation. (And, the reason about destroying the Flame Alchemy for once and all, as stated above. ^^)

In conclusion, that scene is much much MUCH deeper than just making into some cheap melodrama scene and hence cheapening Riza's character by making her look like some cheap melodrama queen. I love that scene. It shows Riza's courage (to kill Roy if necessary) and strength (to go on even after her killing Roy, to finish fighting the enemy and restore the peace to Amestris) and her deep sheeted survivor's guilt from Ishval War, which is one of the long running theme in the FMA manga, and her commradry to others, and her decision to destroy Flame Alchemy for once and all so that no one else can get hold of it, even if that means she is killing herself (but she will wait till her work is done)..... and on and on... the scene has a huge amount of emotions and feelings packed into it. And that's just talking about Riza, then we have Roy's emotions, Ed's, Scar's and of course Envy's. The chapter was awesome. I'm sad that so many people got the wrong characterization of Riza out of this chapter and now many FMA fans think of Riza as some cheap and weak melodrama queen. sad.gif


ETA: Big YES to Turdaewens post who also posted while I was posting this. About the part that she feels guilty for the people Roy killed using the Flame Alchemy, and the part about one of the reasons why Riza has stayed so close to Roy, yes and yes, I completely missed stating about that in my post and thank you for pointing these!! It really makes me feel good that at least someone "got" it. ^^
jacksparrow589
Before I put in my two bits: Tombow, kkg22104, and Turdaewen--Thank you for putting us back on track about 95 to the point of sounding like a broken record. Personally, I got it when y'all said it the first time, but it's nice to read it over and over. Gives it more conviction, I think.

As much a die-hard romantic as I am, I completely agree with what's being said here. Riza's totally not going to kill herself just because Roy gets killed--it's way deeper than that, as Tombow and others have been telling us. I'm not going to repeat all of what's been said here, because you can all read it for yourselves. I'm just saying that all of what's been said is probably the best explanation that can be given.

...But I gotta say, even if it's not exactly romantic, per se, (I'd debate that, but I digress...) it completely defines their bond, whether you call it love or something else. As we know from reading all these posts, the amount of things left unsaid there is massive. It is now (and will always be) a really awesome scene.
rainbowcatgirl
QUOTE (The_Twilight_Trinity @ Jul 31 2009, 01:31 PM) *
QUOTE (rainbowcatgirl @ Jul 31 2009, 12:40 PM) *
Ahhh! I can't wait for the new chapter and some royai!

I have a feeling that one will not live without the other, in other words if Roy dies Riza would most likely kill herself, yet if Riza dies I think that Roy would keep on living ( To be President )


I can't wait either!!! And it looks to me that the new chapter and episode 19 of Brotherhood will come out within days of each other! There is huge potential for Royai overload!!!! GAH!!!!

As for Riza killing herself without Roy, I've always thought the same thing, though I really can't say for sure. Chapter 95 might suggests that she would but again, not sure. It would seem a little bit overdramatic for her character, but at the same time, what would she live for? Most of the manga suggests that the majority of her lifetime has been devoted to Roy and to his goal. And I agree that Roy would definitely carry on even if Riza died, but he would be super depressed.




Thats so true but again we really don't know biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Tombow @ Aug 1 2009, 09:21 AM) *
QUOTE (kkg22104 @ Aug 1 2009, 10:34 AM) *
QUOTE (spectator @ Aug 1 2009, 10:22 AM) *
about chapter 95, what did she mean by 'I will destroy my body, and along with it the Flame Alchemy that turns otherwise decent human minds into madness'?

Remember, she has the secret for flame alchemy tattooed onto her back, so if her body disappears no one else will know how to use it. (At least, that's how I interpret it tongue.gif)

Exactly. She has been forced to be the custodian of that secret (without her choice, I guess) then trusted Roy with that secret (flame Alchemy) and if Roy prove to be "failure" as in going mad and using that Flame Alchemy for his own mad revenge, then Riza wouldn't trust anyone else...if Roy can't even keep his sanity with it, then who can... so, to destroy the Flame Alchemy, she has to destroy her body that carries the secret of Flame Alchemy.
Yes, in that scene, THAT is what RIZA meant by her mentioning about (destroying) her body. NOT for romantically her laying dead next to Roy's dead body.
Also, the timing. The scanlated translation makes it read as if, if Roy dies then Riza would die INSTANTLY, to lay dead next to him... it might have not meant to be read that way, but many read that line that way in that scanlation, it seems. And, that would be CLEARLY WRONG, IMO, as what Riza meant was that she would finish the job of fighting the bad guys (and restore the peace to the Amestris) and then and only then she would no longer need to live...and again, that is NOT coming from just because the "object of her love," Roy is no longer alive. The reason she loses the purpose of living then is because right now the only purpose of her living (beside keeping the check on Roy with his Flame Alchemy as the custodian of that Alchemy) is to "carry the sin of Ishval War within her generation" as this was the sin done by people of her generation, so that the next generation wouldn't have to carry it...meaning, she, along with others who had carried the sin of Ishval War, and still surviving, would do everything, even all the dirty works, to restore the right out of wrong done, amend the damage that had been done, and restore the Amestris to peace time for the next generation. After that, after it's all done, then her purpose is done and after that she would not wish to go on living easy life...this part is coming from "SURVIVOR'S GUILT" ... with so many died in the war and with so many she had killed in the war, and so many died in the fight against Father and the gang, including ROY if she ended up killing Roy here, and after all that she feels guilty if she would just go on having her merry life.. That's what she mean that she would not wish to go on living...NOT just because Roy died, then she would go "oh no, the love of my life died!! I'm going to kill myself!!" like so many people seem to have gotten from reading that particular scanlation. (And, the reason about destroying the Flame Alchemy for once and all, as stated above. ^^)

In conclusion, that scene is much much MUCH deeper than just making into some cheap melodrama scene and hence cheapening Riza's character by making her look like some cheap melodrama queen. I love that scene. It shows Riza's courage (to kill Roy if necessary) and strength (to go on even after her killing Roy, to finish fighting the enemy and restore the peace to Amestris) and her deep sheeted survivor's guilt from Ishval War, which is one of the long running theme in the FMA manga, and her commradry to others, and her decision to destroy Flame Alchemy for once and all so that no one else can get hold of it, even if that means she is killing herself (but she will wait till her work is done)..... and on and on... the scene has a huge amount of emotions and feelings packed into it. And that's just talking about Riza, then we have Roy's emotions, Ed's, Scar's and of course Envy's. The chapter was awesome. I'm sad that so many people got the wrong characterization of Riza out of this chapter and now many FMA fans think of Riza as some cheap and weak melodrama queen. sad.gif


ETA: Big YES to Turdaewens post who also posted while I was posting this. About the part that she feels guilty for the people Roy killed using the Flame Alchemy, and the part about one of the reasons why Riza has stayed so close to Roy, yes and yes, I completely missed stating about that in my post and thank you for pointing these!! It really makes me feel good that at least someone "got" it. ^^



Thanks Tombow !
amestris_star
Thanks to all for the very interesting discussion on 95. I tend to agree that translation was overly melodramatic, I must admit, and seems slightly OOC that's true, but even in the real state of things, just like Tombow rightly said in his post, the way the dialogue and every single thing that is said shows that the bond between Roy and Riza is immensely strong and profound. That's why I adore that chapter so much (however it does not exceed Chapter 39 in my Royai Top 10).

I can't wait for the new chapter to come, hoping that at least we get to know what happened to them since last time... a page or two would be enough for me (and marks my words, we shall be repeating this phrase ad nauseam in the coming days XD)
Aribelle
Yes, I agree with what everyone said. I think that Riza does carry a lot of guilt for what happened in Ishval and what the flame alchemy she gave Roy turned him into in 94 and 95, and I'm sure Roy feels guilty as well, so they're both trying to atone. Of course, I don't think that's the only reason they stick together wink.gif

I would be so disappointed in Riza if she killed herself just because Roy died. That level of devotion frightens me a little and I think she's stronger than that...it makes it seem like she's living just for Roy and not for herself at all, which I think is untrue. She knows what she's doing, and I just didn't like the notion that she would throw her life away over a guy. Lol this is turning into a womens' empowerment rant, so I'll stop here.
spectator
Thanks for the explanation. And then, It sounds really complicated to me. I'm just not good at understanding the deep meaning. However, I do enjoy reading such philosophical manga. There aren't many of them anyway.
The_Twilight_Trinity
Thanks Aribelle for posting the like to Tombow's translation! That makes far more sense for Riza to say than what she did in the scanlation. I feel like, in a way, the real translation shows their relationship more fully because you can really tell Riza's guilt over what she did to Roy when she gave him the secrets to Flame Alchemy. I'm just so glad I understand it better now! biggrin.gif It's still my second favorite scene! But like amestris_star It doesn't quite top chapter 39 for me either. Close, but not quite! laugh.gif
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