More like mixed feelings: happy because it's coming out soon, disappointed because I have to wait for it to come out.

Oh, I lost some discussions here. I love Grummam, always laugh a lot with him. (Rebecca's scene, Grummam in woman's clothes scene).

I know the guidebook says that Grummam is Riza's grandfather but... When her dad dies, she says for Mustang that she was alone and have no family.
If Grumman was her grandpa he'll help her, you don't think that?

I never see that scan saying that Grummam is RIza's grandpa, someone have the scan?

I wish Grummam was my grandfather. Mine is evil. EVIL. xp Anyways, who is this Rebecca person? I don't remember. Also, if I remember correctly, Riza didn't know about her grandfather until later on. Same with him. He didn't even know Riza was even born until he found out she was in the military. I'm not sure where you can find that at. I just herd it from somewhere, but I would like to know what manga chapter/episode that is in if anybody would want to help me out. ^^ I think that Grumman would take a bullet for Riza if anything. Also, does anybody have any English scans for any of the guidebooks? I never really got to read them.

Just talking.

-Grummam and Madam Christmas should get together. lmao

-We need more insight on Papa Hawkeye.

-Who are the girls Madam Christmas is always referring to.

-Christmas would make a great grandma to Roy and RIzas kids.

-We need more insight on Papa Hawkeye

-How do we know Papa Hawkeye really put that tattoo on Riza? For all we know, Riza's mother could have been the evil one.

-We need more insight on Papa Hawkeye

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Roy_Mustang

@ Forgiven: I don't think Arakawa sensei will give a clear ending for roy and riza. Althought, she always surprises us. I have another question, why everyone says that roy and riza are childhood friends? From the manga, it seems like Roy and riza barely know each other when riza's father died.

I have it, Makika, but it's in Japanese... its a Military Hierarchy tree from the Perfect Guide Book 2

And, either way, Riza says her parents didn't had any contact with any relatives, not that she didn't HAD any relatives.
So she wouldn't know about her grandfather on her mother side. It's sort of implied that the family of Riza's mom was a 'military family'. It's only rumors, of course, but it would be a good excuse for her not to know any of her relatives, since her dad HATES the military.

Here: (it's written just above Grumman's picture)

@Forgiven
I'd be weirded out if Grumman and Madam Christmas got together...Roy's foster mom and Riza's granddad o_O

@Spectator
True that the manga doesn't seem to tell us how close (or even at all) Roy & Riza were as kids, but I think it'd be safe to at least assume that they would've grown up in close quarters. In a house where it was only Papa Hawkeye, Riza & Roy, kids would naturally gravitate towards being at least being civil towards one another.

It's the girls who work at her 'store' (if you get my drift XD)... The ones that are all over Mustang every time he goes there.
Really, I love Madame Xmas, but I have to say: that's NOT an healthy environment for a child to grow up with!!! What was she thinking, putting up a little boy amongst so many... fun women??


Riza mentions at her dad's funeral that "He put it somewhere where it was safe and no one could steal them", or something like that. And he told her that it was written in a way no alchemist could ever read it.

@ Forgiven: Rebecca was one of Riza friends from Ishbal, I think. One of the other snipers I think it was. She was first mentioned when Roy and Riza were eating lunch, but that really doesn't help. In a more key part, Rebecca was the one who came around with the ice cream truck and gave Mustang and his super rebels ammo, new weaponry, etc. I don't remember the chapters though. Sorry. And your throughts, like Kale's, weird me out... in a friendly way, I mean. Grumman and Christmas... together. Wow that'd be a bit creepy.

@Kale: I agree with what you said. I mean, Riza seems to be the only child in her household stuck with only her somewhat crazy dad. Mustang and Hawkeye had to have been friends or at least had spent some kind of time together as kids.

Thank you, Turdaewen for posting the scan!! ^^

Yap, this is a page from official FMA manga Gaidebook II, and the part with the Red line... it says: "Actually, he is a Grandfather of Hawkeye on her mother's side."

Rebecca didn't go to Ishbal. She went to the Academy with Riza and Havoc.

Roy and Riza seemed to be a little intimate, but not too much, cause Riza seemed like that shy kid and she still calls him Mustang-san. Kinda those kids who care about eachother but never get the courage to actually get any closer, you know??


And you're welcome, Tombow ^^

Not sure if this has been discussed, but does anyone think Bradley`s promise to coax Roy into opening the gate might come into play? If it does, I can see Riza being a big part of it... I`m scared.
Seriously, this chapter has me more worried than anything else. :c


Oh God.
Please yes, haha.

...Strangely enough, the little boy grew up to be rather respectful towards women (tiny miniskirts notwithstanding) and has a rather strong woman as his most trusted subordinate.

Methinks Madam Christmas raised that boy all right.

Sorry for beating on a dead horse, but do any of you acknowledge the fact that Anime1 did the 'vengeful Roy' story first? So far, I've only spotted one acknowledgment in this forum (thanks, Andie). It gives me the impression that you guys think this chapter gave some incredible original surprise on Roy Mustang's characterization (with total ignorance/denial to that so-called 'tumor' known as FMAnime1). I'm not saying Arakawa stole the idea. In fact, I think she might have had been the one to give this plot-line to the animators in the first place! For all your criticisms to Anime1, please, give credit where credit is due.

Oh, well so many things happenmd when I was sleeping xP

Grumman and Chris? Goog God, no!
I love~ Grumman and i hope he won't betray anyone. I said somewhere already, maybe he is going to cover Roy, Riza, Olivier etc. when ppl will want to punish them for Ishvar? He is going to rule Amestris and they're going to live somewhere abroad, peacefully?
About Rebecca, she is also in the gaiden from RED - "Simple people" and she gave message to Riza from Grumman about 'Promised Day'.

It would be logical when Grumman becomes Fuhrer...
Roy would be the one behind him then. When Grumman dies, Roy will be the Fuhrer. Or Grumman could give him the title, but well...
Who knows what grandpa Grumman has in mind, nobody knows. We only know that he's kida crazy >D

Thanks Turdaewen for the raw and thanks
for Tombow for the "here it's".

Yeah plp, Grummam is crazy, fact. But for me he still don't know about his relashionship with Riza, or he knows and is waiting the right time to tell her, or he just can't tell her because he don't want to see some "ghosts" (Riza can be extremely like her mother, and we can supose that her mother simply ignore the militar family and run away with a alchemist who hates the military (Maybe because Grummam don't aprove the relationship between Riza's mom and Hawkeyes papa and try to marry his daughter with a militar).

But I think Madam Xmas make this: She kept all the child she can in the streets and give them a oportunnity to make some choices. Roy can be a barman right now, but he learn alchemy and become a militar.

Hahaha, it's weird but now I think Roy meet Riza's Dad when our adorable Hawkeye papa was in Madam Xmas trying to get some dates. So Madam Xmas talk about Roy and after this Hawkeye papa kept Roy to turn him his aprenttice.

Claudius--To be entirely honest, I forgot about the first anime while reading this chapter, and pretty much up 'til now. I get what you're saying, but TO ME, this chapter is a stronger shock than anything else I saw in the anime. Not saying vengeful Roy wasn't there--I know he was. I just haven't watched it in so long... *shrugs* Now I need to go watch it again! (No need to apologize--my memory needs to be set straight every once and a while.)

Nahahaha, good theory about papa Hawkeye xD I would be so happy if Arakawa would give us some flashback of Grumman and his daughter~! Maybe if Grumman will betray them (I hope this won't happen but we know nothing about what is he going to do) we will see something more about him and his family...

But I think Grumman knows about his relationship with Riza (you remember this talk, 'marry my granddaughter, Mustang' in the 6th volume?), I think it's more possible that Riza don't know about it. Who knows? Maybe Grummy is only silently supporting her or something like this. Any details about it in guidebooks?

Yeah, I rebember that ("marry with my granddaughter)... But in my opinion, Mustang don't know who is Grummam's granddaughter and just follow the protocole, laughing and kidding for change the topic.

But I hope Arakawa will solve that in the next chapters, because after all, that thing about Grummam being Riza's Grandpa never appear in the manga, just in the guidebook. The only thing related is that "marry with my granddaughter". (what don't prove or clarify anything).

You think Roy wouldn't know that she's his granddaughter? I never thought of that for sure...

Why? How is your theory? Tell us

(I know, if you think like a Mustang antagonist and a pessimistic person and don't cogitate Royai or Mustang's kind u will think: Well, Mustang never'll look to her if he don't know Riza is a General's granddaughter, and never will help her or something like this. He is selfish and a s*n of a b*tch.
I know Hiromu is unpredictable and no one have shure if she'll made something like this, but in everything I read and see about Roy, I don't think he is selfish or evil like this)

Maybe I take it for granted that he knows.
However, now you got me thinking... what if Christmas and Grumman knew about their 'son' and grand-daughter having an interest in each other and they're playing match-maker with them? XD
I know that might sound hilarious, but I suppose that Madame and Gramps know each other well...

I think Roy knows Riza is Grumman's granddaughter, alright. Even because he usually answers to questions about marriage a lot more rudely than just "Don't think so far ahead".

It's possible that Riza don't know about it, but, if she didn't, it wouldn't be stated so bluntly in the guidebook.
I think they just don't have like the closest relations even because they spent most of their lives not knowing about eachother. It gets a little hard to get intimate with such a past hanging over them.

And Kale - Roy really turned out just fine and I'm pretty sure Madame Chrismas was a wonderful step mother. But it's still funny the hole idea of Roy growing up on a brothel. XD

hahahaha, that'll be so hilarious, I'll laugh a lot if that happens...

*scene*
At Fuhrer's nomination. (Roy'll be the fuhrer in that case)
Grummam and Madam Xmas drinking a lot and laughing.
Roy and Riza look to them. They look to the couple and laugh more and more.
Roy and Riza are confused but ignore the scene.
After in the speeches, Grummam stand up and start to tell some plans about how he and Madam Xmas try to make Roy and Riza as a couple and how they successfully it.
Everyone look to Roy and Riza with that face "wow", *embarrassing Royai moment here*
*end*

hahahaha, I travel in the mayonnaise now... Ignore me. ssuihsuishiushuishuis


Turdaewen: Your theory make a lot of sense, it's really difficult get real family feelings with someone who u pratically don't know.
And thinking well, Roy and Grummam are really close, they play a lot of chess when Roy wasn't in the Central Headquarters yet. Maybe in one that games Grummam tell the truth to Roy.

I'd say that for a little boy growing up in a brothel is by all means unconventional, but at the same time, I don't doubt that Madam Christmas and the rest of the girls probably tried to shield him from all the rough stuff and try to give him a fairly normal childhood. For Roy, I'm sure growing up in a place like that would also be a window for him on how to treat/not treat a woman.

If anything though, Roy probably saw it as he just growing up with his mom and a bunch of sisters - who probably spoiled him rotten.

That's hilarious and ironic in a way. Even considering that his ladies-man facade after all is nothing less than part of the strategy: all his dates are ways to get more info on what is happening in Central and the rest of Amestris, the phone calls with women at the office are nothing less than calls with his Mustang-tachi (Elizabeth, Jacqueline anyone? XDD)... So... maybe the way he grew up (at Madame's place) continued to strengthen his strategic logic.

Charm, self-assurance, determination, brains, & good looks will get you far if you plan on aspiring to be president one day. Manipulating your reputation so that everyone underestimates you will benefit you even more. See, growing up in a brothel totally has it advantages.

Hahaha, yeeah, Roy knows use this for his advantage.

Nah. Who said he was growin up there, I'm sure he lived somewhere else. Not in the brothel.
Later, I think, he was forced to live somewhere near Daddy Hawkeye. Bad influence, hahaha xD

But he definitely got that hole 'protected little brother', thing from the girls. Always listening to they speak how not to treat a woman and how he should grow up to be a gentleman. lol
You're right! It's certain he has used that knowledge to his advantage to build his 'ladies' man slash lazy bastard' facade XD

He's very smart to have created that mascarade of his to hide what he was doing.
I guess it becomes pretty clear it actually works like a charm at that chapter they invade Madame Christmas store. ^^

And he might have lived part of his childhood elsewhere, of course, but I trully think that the time he spent under Madame Christmas was very important to shape the Roy we see today.

I loved it when Madame Christmas said "Shouldn't you been playing with Elizabeth?".

Well, actually we knows he is registered like Madam Xmas son (her real name is Chris... Mustang), so we can conclude that she is his foster mother, so she creates Roy. Obviously.

Maybe he don't grew up IN the brothel, but he have to went there sometimes with her mother. After he became papa Hawkeye's aprenttice and the frequency decreased, but he still made contact with her mom and the brothel anyway...
Later, he create that system of information based in the "dates", and of course his childhood influenced in that.

Agreed. And it's pretty clear that he really cares for his rather unconventional family and vice versa (I always liked the part in chapter 87 where Roy basically said, "I wish she'd stop treating me like a kid" as Madam Christmas walks off).

I've always liked the idea that whenever he visits Madam Christmas' place, aside from intelligence gathering, Roy's actually there to hang out with his mom and "sisters" - if only to have some semblance of normalcy.

You both are sure right .

You guys post too fast LOL I'm gone for a few days, and I had to read ten pages (not that reading all about RoyAi is a bad thing, though) XDDD

First and foremost, welcome to all the new, old, and returning members! This forum has become very active recently! *does victory dance*

Let's see, so much I missed out on

- I haven't watched the episode yet, but that sucks that they changed the translation to a plural. I could have sworn the manga did that once...like the online one focused out Riza as a hostage for Wrath and the VIZ just said that "everyone's a hostage!" but that wasn't a big deal, but it just reminded me of that. (being someone that can recite practically every RoyAi scene, i pick up on the stupidest of things LMAO)

- Madame Christmas and Grumman as matchmakers is a hilarious image. I'd love to read a fan fic about that, like how it began or something. I can just see them spying on little Riza and little Roy talking to one another and then whispering to each other, "Don't they look cute together?" and thus the conspiracy begins LOL

- I think the reason why everyone got so riled up over Roy being vengeful in the manga (forgetting about the anime) is for either what has been mentioned before, they peopel forgot about the anime, or what it is in my case - I've become emotionally attached to the characters of the manga, Roy in particular, and anime!Roy never made me feel anything other than annoyance, really. Their personalities are just so different...the way they talk and everything...that seeing the dorky manga!Roy we know and love become this enraged seemed bigger to me than seeing the anime!Roy who always appeared to be short-tempered lose control. I can totally understand the aftermath of anime!Roy's revenge and I can see both Roys being led to the same fate, but the two characters are so diffedrent that I felt entirely different things as I read the manga compared to watching the anime.
Plus, the "RoyAi" in the anime is kind of strange, don't you think? I felt something more as I read Riza pulling a gun on Roy than I did even the in anime as she cried over his body... I don't know if it's just me or not, but I buy the relationship between them so much more in the manga.
Plus...(sorry for rambling!)...animeRoy didnt fight directly for Hughes, did he? I remember him killing Wrath, but he was directly responsible for Hughes' death, if I'm sitll making sense.

Yeah sorry for such a large block of text. I still understand anime!Roy and his reasons for revenge and his guilt afterwards, but he and manga!Roy are so different to me that it just seemed bigger and better in the manga.

One last thing - I didn't mention this before, but I love your avatar, Makika! So pretty~

Don't get me wrong, but the first time I read that part my mind went: "Play? WTH? XDDD Isn't that a reference to something else or is it just me?"
Roy, Riza, playing... *evil grin*

Ahem...



And this image is effin hilarious >D

In reading this, it'd probably be even funnier if at that moment when they saw the kids, they were playing nicely (think like the two of them playing in a sandbox) - then the moment their backs are turned, Roy dumps sand on Riza's head which causes her to throw her shovel at him.

^You guys are reminding me of my own being set up a couple years ago. It's kinda scary.

Well, regardless of where Roy grew up, I'm sure growing up with Madame Christmas as his mom was the major factor in how he turned out regarding women. I mean, I get the sense she's the "tough love" sort, but she also has a softer side to her.

I, too, LOVED the "Why don't you go play with Elizabeth?" scene. Poor Roy... "Elizabeth was taken by another man..." I crack up remembering it! (For the record, that's another one I want to see animated. Hearing it would be just... words can't describe the awesomeness.)

Do you remember wich chapter that was? Would love to find that scene again and show it to Amestris_star

Yes, thank you very much!

Chapter 85, or 86. Something like that.

I'm blind. Need glasses T____T Can't find it.

My thoughts exactly. It's not about Roy being vengeful, but we never really expected the Manga Roy to blow up like that. I mean, the look on his eyes.... You never see the anime Roy just loose it like that. He went berserk!!

But, as Claudius already know, I like the anime as well. Just think they should be seen as two different things. ^_~

That's how I see it as well.

I try not to directly relate or compare things between the manga and the original anime because at the heart of the matter, a lot of the core ideas are the same or similar but there is still a rather large amount of differences between the two storylines.

This is not to discredit either the original anime or the manga, but I think if you are/were exposed to one version of the story, definitely check out the other version as it'll allow you to see and form your own ideas about certain characters.

I know how you feel. >_<

Tough love eh? lol. I can just see the punishments now. But its all in love.

Yeah, just think about they together in conspiracy it's funny, read that will be even more hilarious.
I have one fan fic where something close to this happens, but it's in portuguese :\
who want to try, here it is: Makika's Fanfiction

RoyxRizaFan: Hahaha, thanks! I love your sig, Olivier is so cool *-*



Hahaha, yeeah, I pratically start jump around the house when I read that for the first time.
Oh, and that is in the chapter 62, around page 43/45/48.

OMG! Thank you! I love you now xD!
So here is the page for the ones who forgot that ROYAI-ish moment!
http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/62/42/

I'm gone for a day and return to a bunch of posts. Oh joy! (seriously... I'm happy)

Initially, considering Christmas and Grumman as a couple weirded me out... I don't know why... but it just did. But after reading everyone's posts and actually seeing where everyone was going with this, I do understang the humor behind this. Now whoever said that it would look cute with Roy and Riza throwing sand at each other as soon as GRumman and Christmas turned their backs was just hilarious. That whole mental-image-thought made me crack up.

About the chapter 62 scene, I remember sitting on that page going... "Now is this Elizabeth.... Riza? Or is it just Elizabeth... some curious chick?" I'm a skeptic like that... but Arakawa's mindgames drive me crazy... All these ltitle hints she drops about curious things get me looking like an idiot just sitting there staring at a single page muttering to myself... But I love it.

aaah, cmooooon, there's only one Elizabeth who was taken away from Roy xD.

Hmm... Just thinking. Japanese don't have the letter "L", right? So that's why Alucard from Hellsing is Arucard in the japanese version. So ... Riza... might be actually Liza? (Elizabeth=Liza)

...Oh. All this time I thought it was. XD Oops. I guess it's not confirmed.Because when papa-Hawkeye told Roy to take care of Riza , I thought he said Liza as in shorten for Elizabeth. Ah, oh well.
But it's makes sense....She was stolen by Bradley! O.o That sound odd.