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TheVileOne
Please post the discussions on episode 13: "Flame vs. Fullmetal" here. smile.gif


Don't miss this great episode tonight guys. Its great and tons of fun. Plus from here is when events of the main story are going to pick up even more, so its even more significant in that respect as season 1 of Fullmetal Alchemist reaches its halfway point.


KevLar
since when was this show split up into seasons?
TheVileOne
Sorry, from what I understand episodes 1-25 are season 1 and episodes 26-51 are season 2. But if I was wrong about that, thanks for correcting me.
KingWaddleDee
Are they going to change the opening theme songs? Because I really like the 4th opening from the Japanese one, and I hope they don't just stick with the 2nd one all the way through, even though it is rockin.
Phobia
unsure.gif wink.gif I thought season one consists of episodes 1 - 31 and season two consists of episodes 32 - 51.
Falling_Man
Great stuff. The usual mix of funny/serious moments is more apparent.
Highlights:Roy and Riza's treatment of that little puppy. (whats his name?)
Moment when Hugues unveils the giant pic of his daughter.
Roy blowing the crowd to bits.

Great stuff.
Username05
I thought that it was pretty funny.
"Quit calling me short, or I'll rip your feet off and stick them on your head!"
Would anyone realy use this come back?
Ailuro
Is the dog still named Black Hayate? Or did they change it to Kuroi Hurricane or something? XD
Quistis88
"Kuroi Hurricane"!? biggrin.gif Oh, my gosh . . .

In Japanese, Hayate =/= Hurricane, in case anyone does not know. rolleyes.gif
xrninja
no, i heard they kept it as black hayate.


the dub won't air here for another 40 minutes and i may not have access to any of our tvs, so i'll just ask now: is it true that riza's "uchi no shitsuke wa kibishii wa yo!" ("my discipline will be strict!") line was changed to "you won't be trying that again, will you punk? you've got a strict mommy now," or something like that, in the dub? O_O i got that quote from the lj community fm_alchemist, and if it's correct i may do an oedipal eye-gouging.
Ailuro
o_o
It airs here in a half hour, now. I'll be sure to let you know if you can't get to a television on time.
TheVileOne
Great episode, and one of my favorites as season 1 reaches its halfway point. And if you haven't found things interesting yet? Well things are going to get even MORE interesting and dramatic from here on out.

First appearance by ARMSTRONG! But we didn't get to hear his voice (character to be played by Christopher Sabbat).

And who was that woman standing behind the Fuhrer? Ed certainly found something about that gave him pause wink.gif .
Quistis88
QUOTE(xrninja @ Feb 6 2005, 12:23 AM)
is it true that riza's "uchi no shitsuke wa kibishii wa yo!" ("my discipline will be strict!") line was changed to "you won't be trying that again, will you punk? you've got a strict mommy now," or something like that, in the dub?
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If they did that, I'm seriously going to kill something through illegal means . . .
Zio
I loved Episode 13. I laughed so hard I almost fell out of my chair and best of all, it's going to be on again in 15 minutes!
AlphonseRules
I thought that the funniest moment was when Ed and Al were peeking into Mustangs office and the cat started to meow. Also when Al punched Ed and ran off in a hilarious manner. Overall this was a great episode although the Ed&Roy battle was pretty lame. Perfect ending to lead up to episode 14 "The Right Hand of Destruction." Even though Scar is evil I think that he is an awesome character.
Linda
I just got done watching half of the show, Right now i'm in commercial. But for some reason there voice just seem different. Probably because i haven't heard them in a long time... But this episode is extremely funny.. Al punching Ed... Al and a Kitty... and you get to see the rest of the government. biggrin.gif Hoorah For Havoc
Guest
I don't get excited over dialogue changes either, but FUNimation does not rely on 100% accurate translations. FUNimation adapts the script to try to get the best lines, and the best lip-syncing, that they can without changing the original meaning. That's what a dub is for. If you don't like it, there's always the subs. In my opinion they've done an amazing job with this episode, and the voice acting was spot-on. Saturday nights at 12AM has been the best part of the week for me, but now the best part of the week will be Saturday nights at 11:30PM starting next week - 'preciate it [adult swim]!
Ailuro
QUOTE (xrninja @ Feb 6 2005, 12:23 AM)
is it true that riza's "uchi no shitsuke wa kibishii wa yo!" ("my discipline will be strict!") line was changed to "you won't be trying that again, will you punk? you've got a strict mommy now," or something like that, in the dub?
*

Yep. That's what it was changed to.
Quistis88
QUOTE(Ailuro @ Feb 6 2005, 01:27 AM)
Yep. That's what it was changed to.
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Someone start fundraising to bail me out of jail.
xrninja
"punk"? have they watched the original (rhetorical question)? that's so incredibly out of character for riza hawkeye. i have a very hard time imagining hawkeye saying something like "gaki," which is more "brat" than "punk." riza hawkeye does not call people, or dogs, "punks."


i wonder how my prison food will taste.
Quistis88
QUOTE(xrninja @ Feb 6 2005, 01:33 AM)
i wonder how my prison food will taste.
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Try to tell me which cell you're in once you get there. I'll come visit often. I think I'll be in the one down the second corridor to the right of the big red door.
Ailuro
Be on the lookout for me as well. -__-
hitokiri
see this is the problem with dubs, changing lines in a manner that changes the character... let's see how much flaming i get from american VA worshiping fanboys/girls i get from this one... laugh.gif
Quistis88
The GP as prison buddies . . . someone should write a story about this. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
see this is the problem with dubs, changing lines in a manner that changes the character... let's see how much flaming i get from american VA worshiping fanboys/girls i get from this one...  laugh.gif

Ohh, I shall await this with utmost patience. biggrin.gif *gets comfortable*
Guest
It may be out of character, but it sounded natural coming from Colleen Clinkenbeard, and it was a more humorous line, which is most likely why they went with it.
hitokiri
yes... changing the integral core concepts behind characters for the sake of proving that they can is really humorous....
Guest
This isin't really something that can be debated.. if you don't believe line changes are ever justified, then that's a common and well-shared opinion. Obviously everyone who has watched the original would prefer it to remain the same.. that's completely natural. But I don't think FUNi intended to change any integral core concepts with that one line of dialogue; they just thought "you've got a strict mommy now" was a better adaptation then "my discipline will be strict!". Its unfortunate, but they're interested in maximizing the script to click with the broadest audience possible when put into english, and sometimes one or two things do pass through that might sound unnatural. Its not intentional, but they want the lines to have the same hillarious impression on an American as it would have on the Japanese when they watched, which isin't always possible with a direct translation.

I guess I've been accustomed to it, one of my other favorite animes, Case Closed, in no way resembles the original anime after FUNi was done with it. Every line of dialogue was changed in some way, every name changed, even key elements of the plot. At first I was really annoyed; actually, I am still annoyed. But then I look at the job they've done with FMA, and I'm impressed, especially relatively. I think its hard to appreciate the grass until you've seen the dirt.
ἀρχή
QUOTE(Ailuro @ Feb 6 2005, 03:27 AM)
QUOTE(xrninja @ Feb 6 2005, 12:23 AM)
is it true that riza's "uchi no shitsuke wa kibishii wa yo!" ("my discipline will be strict!") line was changed to "you won't be trying that again, will you punk? you've got a strict mommy now," or something like that, in the dub?

Yep. That's what it was changed to.

I'm upset to hear that. I disagree with making radical changes in dialogue from transations. It's just too bad that they did that. It really affects the individual characters, but fortunately it shouldn't affect the overall story of the series.
Kirara
My goodness I don't see how one little line changes a character, talk about overreacting.

Anyways I really enjoyed this episode, I was surprised by how much actual "story" we got since I assumed that the episodes would be the same as the two gaiden chapters in the manga which were purely for fun. Anyways I really enjoyed this episode there were so many great moments both serious and funny that it is hard to come up with just a few.

And on a side note I do wonder who that woman is.
Merc
*Sigh* Thus the death threats and whining commences. I agree that I did not like that line, but the "my training is strict" line was too short to be timed with the mouth movements. Although I couldn't believe she said "you have a new mommy now." I'm sorry, that was a bit on the scary side. I actually like the dub, although I'm a little less than thrilled that they made Riza A LOT more loose and relaxed than she actually is.

~Merc
ἀρχή
QUOTE(Merc @ Feb 6 2005, 11:49 AM)
...but the "my training is strict" line was too short to be timed with the mouth movements.

That's an excellent point. I didn't even think about that aspect of the translation side. It does make for a greater complcation with translations to have to keep sound coming out for the duration of the lip movements. I wonder how many dub issues are a result of it. I don't know japanese, so I don't know how often japanese is longer/shorter to say than english.
xrninja
QUOTE(Merc @ Feb 6 2005, 08:49 AM)
I agree that I did not like that line, but the "my training is strict" line was too short to be timed with the mouth movements.
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that's true, but i think they could have worked around that without much of a problem. maybe something like "you know my training will be strict, right?" (<-i think i saw it translated like that somewhere, maybe a sub or the manga) i'm not familiar with dubbing, so maybe not. but i think i 'd like the line a lot better if they had changed "punk" to "boy." i don't disagree with line changes, as long as the character speaking remains in character.
QUOTE(Kirara @ Feb 6 2005, 08:16 AM)
My goodness I don't see how one little line changes a character, talk about overreacting.
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maybe we are overreacting, but you haven't seen the raw or sub, so you're not really acquainted with riza's character yet. riza gets little screentime in the whole series, and what we do get to see her do and hear her say builds her character. the line was just very....out of character. riza's very serious, focused, and fiercely loyal, but she has a soft side she'll show every now and then. she doesn't really joke around, and if she does (does she? maybe i've been reading too many fanfics) they're more of the subtle sort, usually aimed at mustang. the shooting-at-buraha thing was probably one of the more extreme things she did in the series, and i thought it was funny because, well, she shoots holes around a poor puppy and all she says is "my training will be strict, you know! happy.gif" while everyone else is O___O, maybe thinking how strict is a complete understatement and how she's way too calm about the whole thing O___O. and that's just very....riza. and as she's my favorite anime character, i think i'd be great for the dub fans to get to know a riza hawkeye not too different from the one the subbers came to know and love, and see how perfectly (okay, i think it's perfect) her calm and controlled character mixes with mustang's.

riza hawkeye fangirl #1, signing out. XD
Merc
Dubbing any foreign language media into another language is exceedingly difficult since you're having to time the voices with the mouths. Anime is a bit easier since the mouths generally move up and down and don't have any specific lip movements to signify different vowels or consenents. However, the Japanese language is hard to dub because there aren't as many implications as there are in English. There are also more fillers and signifiers in the Japanese language than in English.

In addition to all that, the Japanese sentence structure is nearly the inverse of English. This makes it even more difficult to figure out how to time and translate the show into English without totally losing the meaning.

But that still doesn't mean that dubbers can completely butcher a script. To be fair, about 98% of that episode kept true to the sub. A lot of the lines were the exact same as the dub, especially during the battle. The only real liberties taken (that I saw) all involved Riza.

~Merc
~FMAgurl~
i can't believe i missed half the episode yesterday! i fell asleep sad.gif
now i have to wait til thursday to watch the entire thing! *walks away frustrated*
Panzer Dragoon
o_O; Ok, we all agree that the "You have a strict new mommy" line Risa said was creepy.

I enjoyed the episode, made me laugh a lot (especially when Al was with the kitty!), and made me excited to see the next episode.

Before the commercial, I thought Ed was going to do something with Al or the cat. Anybody else think that too?
ἀρχή
Well, now you can all appreciate my advertisement for one of our great threads on the FMA forums:

IPB Image
Kasumi
I don't think it's so much "you have a new mommy now" that's the problem, but rather the word "punk." As xrninja stated a page, that's really out of character for Riza. Riza Hawkeye is not the type of person to use informal language. I'm sure there are other one syllable words that could've replaced "punk."
Hilde Knight
I was fine with the Riza line, but that's just me.

The thing that bugged me about the episode was Ed's imitation of Roy at the beginning. It was just so bad. The imitation in the sub was executed well; it wasn't over-the-top to the point where it would be annoying but it wasn't under-done to the point where it wouldn't fit right.

The dub's imitation though. Just, ugh. It was leaning more towards too over-the-top and over-exaggerated to the point it just wasn't funny.
Panzer Dragoon
The beginning really did make me laugh. While Ed was imitating Roy, Al's all like OMG... sleep.gif;
Tobu Ishi
Oh dear...as someone who plans to translate someday, my choice for "Uchi no shitsuke wa kibishii wa yo!" would have been, "None of that nonsense, now! I discipline strictly." Or perhaps "Don't try that with me, I'm a very strict disciplinarian!" It would depend on how her mouth was moving.

...but maybe that's just me. happy.gif If/when I end up with a translating firm, I'm watching the series clear through at least twice in Japanese and dabbling at least nominally in the fandom before starting on a project. Nothing worse than missing the heart of a character.
ἀρχή
QUOTE(Tobu Ishi @ Feb 7 2005, 12:27 AM)
Oh dear...as someone who plans to translate someday,

Oh, very nice smile.gif. You can appreciate the difficulties in this whole translation issue whether it's sub or dub. I think people often miss the point in how many factors go into translations (words, sentence structure, culture, intent, context, inflection and now I'm realizing for anime - length of sentences).

Anyway, episode 13 is one of the more pivotal episodes for the Ed/Roy relationship. In the end, Ed begins to get a glimpse at Roy that he really doesn't consider often. It's also a good fleshing out episode for the military characters. That's why it's so important to get them right as they have huge impact on people, but don't really show up as often as Ed & Al. Thier portrayal in the sub version, however, really makes you feel like you know them.

:edit: Half of my post's ideas were stolen from xrninja. sorry tongue.gif
xrninja
QUOTE(arche @ Feb 6 2005, 09:50 PM)
:edit: Half of my post's ideas were stolen from xrninja. sorry tongue.gif
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really? well, no problem, steal away tongue.gif
QUOTE(Tobu Ishi @ Feb 6 2005, 09:27 PM)
Oh dear...as someone who plans to translate someday, my choice for "Uchi no shitsuke wa kibishii wa yo!" would have been, "None of that nonsense, now!  I discipline strictly."  Or perhaps "Don't try that with me, I'm a very strict disciplinarian!"  It would depend on how her mouth was moving.

...but maybe that's just me.  happy.gif  If/when I end up with a translating firm, I'm watching the series clear through at least twice in Japanese and dabbling at least nominally in the fandom before starting on a project.  Nothing worse than missing the heart of a character.
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i think those are good translations, in that they show that she's a no-nonsense kind of person and that she's very.....together, and controlled. can't describe it. and best of luck if you go into translating; i think getting the heart of a character across should be essential to translators, as well as how the fans see the character. smile.gif
Quistis88
Well, I just watched the episode myself. mellow.gif The Roy+Hayate and Roy+Miniskirt parts weren't as bad as I thought they could potentially be. I actually didn't mind them.

But the Riza thing is still . . . odd.
TheVileOne
This episode is also important because we get the first appearance by Major Alex Louis Armstrong!
Ailuro
It was amusing how Roy was almost singing while waving Hayate around. o_o
Quistis88
QUOTE(Ailuro @ Feb 6 2005, 11:39 PM)
It was amusing how Roy was almost singing while waving Hayate around. o_o
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It was, it was . . . ph34r.gif
ed*alelric
I thimk that episode was rather funny than action smile.gif

still liked it though smile.gif
Kirara
It is true that I haven't seen the original subbed version yet but I have read all the manga so I am acquainted with Riza's character. I personally don't think anything she said in the dub last night is out of character for her. Please tell me specifically how "you have a strict mommy" and the word punk changes Riza's character because I just don't see it. Now perhaps the line was a little corny but it was a funny episode so it is forgivable in my honest opinion.

Though after rewatching it a few times I wasn't sure if she said punk or pup. I guess it was punk since that is what everyone heard but I wasn't 100% sure when I listened to it.
THeDaRKneSSWiThiN
No, Riza doesn't say punk. She says. "Now you won't be doing that again, will you PUP."
Kirara
QUOTE
No, Riza doesn't say punk. She says. "Now you won't be doing that again, will you PUP."


You know I think it is PUP. I rewatched that scene like 5 times and it sounds like Pup to me. Again I can be wrong because it is hard to tell without subtitles. Though I wonder if everyone would be more satisfied with Pup?
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