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Researcher
FMA Ep 44 to 52 Spoilers
Gate of Hell, Hohenheim, Dante, Alchemy and the Evil One

Research Materials:
1) Dante's Inferno
2) Rodin's Sculpture of the Gate of Hell (Based on Dante's Inferno)
3) Bible: Genesis

Alchemy & Equivalent Trade & Tax & The Evil One

1) Do you really believe in Equivalent Trade? Was Trade ever needed in the Garden of Eden. The answer is no.

2) When a trade takes place, one party will always gain more than the other party. In the rare case, a 3rd Party actually profits from Trade.

3) Are Transmuted items 100% equivalent in value as compared to the Original item?
I don't think so. Somehow, a portion is taken away as Tax.

4) Where does this hidden Tax go to? No one knows.

5) Probably it all goes bit by bit to the Evil One.

6) Alchemy is forbidden by the Ishbal people. It is known as the forbidden knowledge.

7) Relating this to the Genesis Chapter in the Bible, the Forbidden knowledge can be compared to the Forbidden Fruit.

8) My Theory is that the Creator actually banished the Evil One into the Gate of Hell and sealed him there. All the Human Sinners were naturally pulled into Gate of Hell by the Evil One after practising too much Alchemy.

9) Each time alchemy is performed, the Evil One becomes stronger by probably a micron. However, when Human alchemy is performed, it's actually strong enough to allow the Soul of a Sinner( actually they're already nearly souless) to leave through the Gate.

10) The Philosopher Stone containing Tens of Thousands of Human Souls is probably enough to free the Evil One. It's a guess anyway.


Gate of Hell
Other names in Anime: Gate of Truth, Gate of Alchemy

1) The Gate as mentioned by Izumi, Edward and Alphonse.

2) The Gate's artwork and design is somewhat similar to Rodin's Sculpture of the Gate of Hell. Except that FMA's Gate has a Giant Eye in the Middle, while Rodin's version depicts the various mini sculptures of Legendary Sinners in the Middle Portion.

3) Reasons why the Gate isn't the Gate of Truth, Edward doesn't feel Happiness but instead he feels fear when he stands before the Gate. Heaven is not behind the Gate. Rather, the tortured entities are staring at him through the opening of the Gate.

4) Why Edward initially thought the Gate was the Gate of Truth was because it did give him more knowledge of alchemy. It's more like Half Truths. Years of Forbidden Knowledge resides behind the Gate, all thanks to the Sinners and the Evil One.

Symbol of The Great Eye on the Gate

1) Probably belongs to the Evil One.

Hohenheim

1) Hohenheim Elric is definitely more than 100 Years Old. He actually mistook Winry for her Mother Sara and commented like how she has grown. This tells us that Hohenheim was already around when Sara was of Winry's age.

2) Hohenheim of Light is actually a blasphemous title, somewhat comparing to the Creator.

3) The Creator brings Light.

4) Probably, in the Anime, Hohenheim doesn't serve the evil one.

Dante and Lyla

1) The New opening shows Lyla in Dante's Clothes and having her trademark smile and Purple Eyes.

2) Near Ep 31 to 32, Dante was reading an Old Book with a Strange Alchemy Circle and hastily closed the Book when the Elric brothers arrived in her House.

3) Lyla's character is COMPLETELY different after the Greed's Death Episode.

4) She talks and walks slowly in the recent episodes.

5) Therefore, it's Dante in Lyla's body.

6) Dante is somehow related to Hohenheim.

7) Dante could be the Real Servant of the Evil One.

Episode Zeroth Spoiler

1) Pity those who didn't get to watch Episode 0. Yep Episode 0. It showed Important spoilers of Episode 44 to 52. Because those scenes were not present in the earlier episodes.

2) Spoiler 1: Armstrong and Roy Mustang are stopping the Elric Brothers from entering a Temple/Mosque/Dome Building Structure. They fight.

3) Spoiler 2: A Female Homuculus, could be LUST or SLOTH is activating the GREAT EYE. A Beam Purple Light shoots up, nice CG effects.

Alchemy Circle with 7 Edges

1) In the 5th Laboratory episodes, Envy actually commented to Edward that He/she never thought of a 7 Edged Transmutation Circle.

2) 7 Homuculus, Probably all 7 of them needs to be transmuted along with the Philosopher Stone to .... You Guess the rest.
Aqua_Alchemist
Ummm Episode 0!! Sorry if I sound like an idiot, but i've never heard of it. Is it one of those run up to release shorts they run only once detailing events that are going to happen in the series. I would be very interested if anyone has this 'episode.'

On other notes, good connections between FMA and other sources.
Researcher
In Ep 43, Once Edward touches Alphonse-Philosopher Stone, he sees into the Gate and finds an image of Alphonse's Body.

Let's hope the Evil One doesn't appear as Alphonse at the End.

The Philosopher Stone will have to be destroyed along with the Homunculus. Dante and Hohenheim will go down also.
Guest
QUOTE(Aqua_Alchemist @ Aug 2 2004, 01:19 PM)
Ummm Episode 0!! Sorry if I sound like an idiot, but i've never heard of it. Is it one of those run up to release shorts they run only once detailing events that are going to happen in the series. I would be very interested if anyone has this 'episode.'

On other notes, good connections between FMA and other sources.

Episode 0 is a guide to FMA. It is however produced in a kiddy manner, showing who the audience is that the anime crew was targeting.

Only some information in there if you can stand the childish manner in which it is presented in...

One good thing is you get to see Nana the singer of the first ED, Unerasable Sin, though.
Omakase Shimasu
So you can find this Episode 0 on the Internet somewhere?

biggrin.gif Anyone know where you can get it if that's the case?

Hehe and from what I've seen of Japanese commercials etc... well, most are kiddy-like. huh.gif Wonder why?
Researcher
Episode 0 is kiddy indeed.

Deceptively, it contains those 2 spoiler scenes...
RolfKaese
quite nice thoughts and research work, i guess. but what is episode 0? never ever heard or read of it. mind giving out some sources of your "research"? not that u talk b*llsh*t here like some other dude did once...
Edit: and lyra isnt wearing Dante's Clothes.
Edit #2: and why is it clear that hohenheim is over 100 years old because he mistook her being sara? winry is currently 16 years old, maybe sara got winry in age of 22 or so.
if u look at the picture of the elric family , we could guess that hohenheim was this time at the age of 30-40. so hohenheim could now be at the age of 46-56 , which could be quite possible. since Hohenheim left rizembul after the birth of Ed and Al, he maybe didnt know of Sara's daughter winry. and if winry looks now just like Sara did 16 years ago and Hohenheim hasnt seen Sara since 16 years, so its quite understandable to mistook winry as sara. why not? i dont think a person has to be over 100 years old to know the mother and daughter of another family o.O even your own grandmother could know your father, you, even your son/daughter. and that at an age of 60/70.
So i dont go with that statement of yours.
Researcher
Rewatch Ep 43 Please:

They give you 2 Hints on Hohenheim's Age

1) Conversation with Winry

2) Conversion with Ross, (the short hair Military lady that has taken a holiday to Rizenbul)

Hints that Hohenheim might not be your Normal Human... He's definitely more than 100 Years old.

Lyla's Fashion taste is like Dante's now...
Researcher
My Research is based on

1) Dante's Inferno
2) Rodin's Sculpture of the Gate of Hell (Based on Dante's Inferno)
3) Bible: Genesis
4) FMA Episode 0
WaveMaster
But couldn't anyone have found out that the river was used before trains. Its seems like common knowledge to me than how old Hohenheim is.
Omakase Shimasu
I thought it was common knowledge too. And because it was common knowledge they assumed Hohenheim was older than 100 years. huh.gif Or something.

In any case, regarding Hohenheim's age; if this Dante/Laila (what's her real name anyway??) theory is true, why can't the same have happened to Hohenheim? Someone might have taken over his body or something equally bizarre? It could explain this whole knowing about the river thing, right?

Wheee~ there goes my whole Envy=Laila theory, down the drain, never to be seen again~

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

huh.gif biggrin.gif;; Hm, ok if this is true than the person that possessed Hohenheim should be extremely old as well... How old was Hohenheim when he left Trisha and the Elric brothers, anyway?
WaveMaster
whats bothering me is I re-watched eps 41 and Ed was talking to layla and he said out of the blue that he hated the scent of that perfume. It wouldn't be weird since you can probably buy perfume any where but then why did director put that part in the eps. I was thinking maybe he's giving ppl hints on who's involved, anyway its been bothering me for some time now. Does anyone have an idea why they would put that part there huh.gif

Edit: Also I thought Lyla died in that eps when Greed's gang came over to Dante's place becuz he position looks like she died
Guest
The whole "evil one" idea is not logical. The reason for the rule of "equivalent trade" comes from other sciences, where matter is never created nor destroyed, and mass is always maintained in a reaction.
I dont know about this alchemy tax. "Do you really believe in Equivalent Trade? Was Trade ever needed in the Garden of Eden. The answer is no." I dont know what the garden of eden has to do with alchemy.
Some of the things you say sound pretty good, but a lot of your "proof" are just speculations and you back them up with poor evidence. Such as "When a trade takes place, one party will always gain more than the other party. In the rare case, a 3rd Party actually profits from Trade" which is just a general statement about the nature of trades. A trade can techincally be fair.
Overall not a bad speculation of what is to come.
Omakase Shimasu
QUOTE
Also I thought Lyla died in that eps when Greed's gang came over to Dante's place becuz he position looks like she died


Well if Layla (that her real name? yay happy.gif) really did die, than it would be awfully creepy for her to stand next to Dante later. OK, I forgot where exactly, I thought it was ep 42 but I could be mistaken. In any case, she seems pretty alive to me! biggrin.gif

And Ed commenting on the perfume... maybe it reminds him of his mother? Or maybe we'll just have to wait and see if it'll be addressed later on in following eps.
RolfKaese
still i dont think he is over 100 years old... well, we'll see.
what bothers me more is the fact that i cant find out anything in the www about a FMA episode 0. could u post some screenshots or stuff that proof such an episode exists? thx in advance.
Omakase Shimasu
QUOTE
Episode 0 is a guide to FMA.


Guide? As in guidebook? huh.gif Or is it really an episode with the intention of 'guiding' people into the wonderful world of FMA?
Aqua_Alchemist
Just spent an hour googling for an Episode 0, can't find anything, can you be more specific as to what it is exactly, is it animated, when did it air, more importantly do you have any screens?
Guest again
QUOTE(Researcher @ Aug 2 2004, 04:34 PM)
They give you 2 Hints on Hohenheim's Age

1) Conversation with Winry

2) Conversion with Ross, (the short hair Military lady that has taken a holiday to Rizenbul)

Hints that Hohenheim might not be your Normal Human... He's definitely more than 100 Years old.

I think that RolfKaese demonstration is quite accurate and logical (damn Germans biggrin.gif ).

On the other hand the fact that Hohenheim knew that there was a former route near the forest is not a proof at all. In different cultures and especially in a country-side village like Rizembull that the elder transmit their konwledge of the geography and the history of the village to others...so IMO it is not that surprising that Hohenheim knew that kind of information. A concrete example, I think we all know that there was an atomic bomb that blew on Hiroshima and on Nagasaki in 1945 but that don't make us all born before 1945...the same logic goes for Hohenheim.
Guest
Episode Zero is most likely the PS2 game because it takes place before the series.
-RD-
QUOTE(Guest @ Aug 2 2004, 10:52 PM)
Episode Zero is most likely the PS2 game because it takes place before the series.

but in the game cant you use alchemy and you play as Ed and Al, so how does that work out?
Researcher
Episode 0 is NOT from the PS2 Game.

Episode 0 was aired in Japan before Episode 1 Premiere.

Episode 0 is either UNSUBBED or SUBBED in Chinese. No English Version is available.

Episode 0 is more like an INTRO Episode for kids
Guest
If you want to get Chinese-subbed Episode 0, use eMule/eDonkey to search for Video files with the search terms "dmhy alchemist"
TrueAlchemist
Nice work researcher!!! smile.gif
I do not know your age, but you will do fine in college.

I think you have a good insight than anyone. I have similar ideas as you, but no one in the forum agreed with me. Anyway, You give many examples. Many japanese animators and story makers tend to use many extra sources from the real world like Dante's inferno and etc. I believe they copy partially from those books and ideas. They never copy 100%. Most of time, they copy 50% and make up 50% with fancy fictional story in order to apply into anime.

I do not believe every part of your theory will be applied into the story, but it is possible.
I questioned about Dante's roll in the FMA many times. First time, I thought and saw Dante as Orochimaru figure. I am sure everyone knows evil dude from Naruto. But, many people disagree with in the forum and i watched episode again. I realize that Lyla is not Dante.

The best theory is that Lyla is ordered by the evil dude to weaken Greed and set him up to get killed by Ed. After I read resercher's theory, I think Dante's name came from Dante's inferno. if that is true, I do not believe she can be killed that easily, or should I say, story maker might not waste her yet. Who knows, but we saw her dead body. At this point, only way for dante to live is stealing other people's body like Orochimaru.
It is only theory. I am sure some people oppose, and some people will agree.

For the last, I think Japanese manga writer's like to use idea of switching body.
First one who used this idea was writers of Get Backers. There was evil dude called Kabuto takes other people's body and survive several hundred years. And, I am sure everyone knows about Orochimaru from Naruto. It is possible to see chacracter from FMA to have that ability, but I hope that does not happen. It will only lower the quality of FMA.
We have Orochimaru, and we do not need to see any other evil dude stealing other people's body.

laugh.gif
WaveMaster
One of your theories won't work there's only six homunculus left since Greed died so using the 7 homunculus is useless unless they bring in another homunculus in the last few episodes blink.gif
TrueAlchemist
WaveMaster, you do have a good point.
And Lust might be detroyed by the evil dude.
So, There are only 5 active homunculus.
Flamel
I download the episode 00 from a chinese website. If u don mind watching it in chinese sub, u can dl from there. The address is http://bt.greedland.net/download.php?btId=68142. u can dl from here.
TrueAlchemist
Thanks Flamel.
But I cannot download it.
It does not seam to have a right address
Psycojester
From what researcher posted i think hes a christian trying to apply his religion to full metal alchemist. Do you think that Lyra could be involved with the homonculus? take a look how Ed reacts to the milk in the ep when he's layed up in hospital after envy kicked the crap out of him in the 5th lab. He says he hates the taste of milk because it reminds him of his mother? could it be the same with the perfume.
RolfKaese
The PS2 Game DID NOT take place before the Anime Series. It takes place after the Elric Brothers met Armstrong, because they already know him in the game.
and as someone said the fact with the atomic bomb.. thats exactly what i thought. why not someone told him about that or he read about that?
well... we'll see X3

Could anybody give me a direct link to the torrent of FMA "0" ?
i dont get thru the chinese stuff.. @.@

also i doubt that they give away spoilers about the last episodes of a series in an episode 0 which airs before the 1st episode.... would be really strange i guess...
Flamel
Oh, TrueAlchemist, my apologiese. This is hard to explain, but if u know chinese it will be easy, but i try my best to explain. you go to this website http://bt.greedland.net, then u see the red word at the right hand corner wif the blank beside it. Type "fullmetal" without spacing. Then it will search for a while, when the result come out, u look for
07-16 19:00 [鋼之鍊金術師(fullmetalalchemist)][00][86.6MB][RMVB] , then click on it, then it will begin to dl
TrueAlchemist
Psycojester, I think you misunderstand something.
Ed do not like milk because he does not like taste. It is not because of his mother.
I did not find anything like that in the anime

Perfume is a good example. I do not why he did not like it. But, there must be some reason, and Lyla also did not react in a good way.

Lyla is a bad ass with out question. Main problem is her roll in the anime.
Den
QUOTE(RolfKaese @ Aug 3 2004, 07:13 AM)
and as someone said the fact with the atomic bomb.. thats exactly what i thought. why not someone told him about that or he read about that?
well... we'll see X3

Yes you're right, but... why does Ross seem to be surprised that Ed's father speak about that ?
RolfKaese
because she never had history in school and wonders about that X3
Kakashi
IPB Image
I love this not even a seed and just one peer. sad.gif

ph34r.gif
RolfKaese
hrm... *want this episode*
WaveMaster
QUOTE(Flamel @ Aug 3 2004, 08:10 AM)
Oh, TrueAlchemist, my apologiese. This is hard to explain, but if u know chinese it will be easy, but i try my best to explain. you go to this website http://bt.greedland.net, then u see the red word at the right hand corner wif the blank beside it. Type "fullmetal" without spacing. Then it will search for a while, when the result come out, u look for
07-16 19:00 [鋼之鍊金術師(fullmetalalchemist)][00][86.6MB][RMVB]  , then click on it, then it will begin to dl

why don't you send it to someone who can host it for direct download wink.gif
Kakashi
Now thats a good idea. Escpecially for people who are dling this episode with 1 peer.

*looks at last post*

ph34r.gif
dogbite
i believe i can ease everyone here and tell you this .
after much rewinding and forwarding it looks to me like on episode 00
the scenes which are stated here arent from the series but from the game.
we see roy and behind him bandits that come from the game(guys with cloaks and tatoos on their hands-they do alchemy fire,ice,earth in the game)
later we see ed using his alchemy on a train(now from this you would think its from the episode autorush(i think it was called that) where ed made a cannon,but
in the series he couldnt use clap alchemy so this must be from the game,later we see a glove with alchemy mark which looks like an eye(truth),then we see a women which looks like the villian of the game .
and the last thing that made me believe this is the game was the "2" above all this that made me believe this is for ps 2 blink.gif
Researcher
I still don't think that the scenes come from the PS2 Game. Please post the screenshots to show that the 2 scenes were from the Game.

Also, the Scenes were not rendered in Polygons like the rest of the game.
Guest
Hey Researcher, mind posting the times when the 2 scenes you mention comes up? I'm a bit lazy to watch through the whole episode to spot them (that plus I'm not excited to watch that corniness again)
odoridan
Ok, I watched episode 0 (got it off emule) and I'll volunteer a few frame grabs.

First, just to show how awful it is, this is a pic of the host:

IPB Image

He's annoying.

The "new" stuff is definately from the game. Top right it says Playstation 2 plus a bunch of stuff I can't comprehend.

IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image

Makes my want to play the game though. happy.gif Me wanty.

And for some extra goodness, they have some of the voice actors. In order left to right, it is Winry, Ed and Al.

IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image
[img]http://www3.telus.net/odoriman/hagaren-00/hagaren0-9.jpg[/img]

That was the only good part of episode 0. It was worth the d/l for that but the sound was not properly synced. mad.gif

Man, I have to re-examine myself when I get turned on by a 31 year old woman doing the voice of a 15 year old boy. wub.gif
RolfKaese
yup. these are scenes from the first PS2 Game. Actually this are Cut Scenes from the game, which are animated like the anime and synchrozised. so he's right when he says it comes from the game.
Guest again
QUOTE(odoridan @ Aug 4 2004, 06:43 AM)

[img]http://www3.telus.net/odoriman/hagaren-00/hagaren0-7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www3.telus.net/odoriman/hagaren-00/hagaren0-8.jpg[/img]

Man, I have to re-examine myself when I get turned on by a 31 year old woman doing the voice of a 15 year old boy.  wub.gif

Dude I agree with you the same worked for me but in my case I got reassured by also being attracted by the female voicing Winry....pffffiu thank god I am not too wicked laugh.gif
Guest
Actually the VA's for Ed, Al and Winry look pretty fine....(imagines a dirty scene involving the trio) laugh.gif
Guest
dont buy the game.
at first its good, but its repetetive.
you finish a town go to the next town and return to the first town.its annoying.
the gameplay is good and so are the graphics.
Zed
You just told us not to buy due to repetitive game play, yet then stated the gameplay was good? blink.gif

There are, of course, more aspects to a game that people look for as well. Plus its FMA, fans will buy it because they are fans
TrueAlchemist
Guest,
For FMA fans, it is worth to buy it.
Guest
Nice research biggrin.gif

QUOTE
8) My Theory is that the Creator actually banished the Evil One into the Gate of Hell and sealed him there. All the Human Sinners were naturally pulled into Gate of Hell by the Evil One after practising too much Alchemy.

9) Each time alchemy is performed, the Evil One becomes stronger by probably a micron. However, when Human alchemy is performed, it's actually strong enough to allow the Soul of a Sinner( actually they're already nearly souless) to leave through the Gate.

10) The Philosopher Stone containing Tens of Thousands of Human Souls is probably enough to free the Evil One. It's a guess anyway.


Although this bit seems to be bit confusing to me, firstly, why would the Creator seal the Evil one behind an imperfect gate so that he may still have a chance to get out?

And about the souls of the sinners getting out, are you refeering to the Homunculi? I don't really believe all of them are sinners since they do have memories of their past (no way Lust is a sinner i recon). And the homunculi said they don't have souls.
TrueAlchemist
I think that is because if the gate is totally sealed, how the sinner can go to hell.
That should give a chance to evil to rise up again because it can be opened.
Fools like Ed and Izumi open the gate.
Give evil a body to rise.
I really hope not to see Evil Al. sad.gif

I think Sinners are ones who stuck in the hell.
They only has the flesh. You see body and soul are different matters.
They might obtain some memories from the sacrifice or human alchemy subjects except Wrath. I do not think Wrath is sinner. I think he is just so pissed off because his mother throw him in hell. Man, he looks like monster after Izumi failed Alchemy.
no wonder, she threw him in the hell.

Maybe, Sinners are spiritual beings that are different from human souls.
Mayber, they somhow changed from "Soul" to something different.

In ep 41, Scar clearfy that Lust is not the woman that he loved because of the way of her thinking.

Everything that I said in here, is my own theory.
I shared the same idea as Researcher.

But, who knows, Homuculi might not be sinners.
Maybe, they are just being used by the Evil dude.
Researcher
Plot Theory

1) The Creator created the Evil One and the Humans.

2) The Creator is ONE with the True Philosopher stone and is able to create things from nothing.

3) The Evil One is jealous of the Creator because the Evil One is inferior. The Evil One discovers/invents alchemy. Alchemy is a mockery to creation. It merely transmutes objects through the concept of equivalent trade.

4) The Evil One taught the Humans Alchemy and bind them to his CONTRACT, thereby corrupting the humans. The CONTRACT states that a "small tax" will be levied per transmutation as a token of "appreciation" for the Evil One.

5) The Evil One told them that with Alchemy, they will be as powerful as the Creator himself and therefore will no longer need to obey the Creator.

6) The Evil One and Humans declare war upon the Creator.

7) The Creator passed his judgement, created The Gate and sealed the Evil One into the Gate. War Ends.

8) However the Gate can be weakened through Alchemy. The Creator expels the Humans from the Heavens and goes into a Catatonic State due to over exertion of power and depression.

9) The Humans continue to practice Alchemy on Earth without opposition. With the CONTRACT still valid, the Evil One is able to weaken the Gate by making small openings.

10) The Evil One acts as a strong magnet to all Human Sinners. The Evil One deceives the later generations of Humans into thinking that the Gate of Hell is the Gate of Truth by tempting them with the forbidden knowledge.

11) With each Human Transmutation performed, The Evil One is able to transmute a mockery of creation, a false image of humans, a being without a soul -> Homunculus.

12) The Evil One influences the most powerful Alchemist in history, Hohenheim, to assist him to create a 2nd Philosopher Stone and and orders the Homunculus to take orders from Hohenheim. Hohenheim is granted Immortality in return.

13) The Evil One requires a replicate of the Philosopher Stone to escape the confinements of the Gate.

14) Through Hohenheim's assistance, the Evil One is able to project his essense out from the Gate and possesses Humans.

15) However, the Evil One is unable to maintain the physical well being of the host because of his Fiery Nature.

16) Dante serves as the Host for the Evil One through a long period of time. ( Now Lyla is the new Host ).

17) Hohenheim comes to Rizenbul. He grows tired of his existence. He falls in love with Edward and Alphonse's Mum and abandons his plan.

18) Happiness is short lived and he has to escape in order to safeguard the safety of his family.

19) The Evil One(Dante) is unhappy.

20) Although the replica Philosopher Stone will not be as powerful as the original one, (60,000 to 120,000 human bodies and souls don't make up the whole Universe), it should grant him enough power to break down the Gates.

21) The Original Philosopher Stone is Colourless. The Replica Philosopher Stone is Red because it is a mockery of the Original, corrupted by sins and filled with the endless blood shed by humans.
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