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Well, after watching the subbed version of 42, I've decided that I will hate Hohenhiem, as he is obviously controlling the Homonculous, and I hate all of them except for Greed. Because Greed was a rebel and he rocked.
C'mon give the little homonculus a bit of peace. Don't use harsh words like hate, afteralll they are only trying to get souls (or are they). I haven't seen 41 or 42 but don't make such harsh statements about Hoenheim, sure he was a crap father and has a major connection with the 'evil' homonculus but rememebr one of the future episodes was named Hoenheim of Light, so he may be a good character after all. And yeah Greed seriously rocked, i'd like to know what kind of person he was beforehand, and who exactly was he.
The Homunculus are lieke guns. Guns(Homunculus)dont kill people, their holdres(creators)do. Hate the poeple who created the Honuculus, not the Homunculus themselves :-p
Hey now. How can you NOT love Envy? He's so cute... and adorable... and sexy... ;;>.> And Lust is awesome, too. Gluttony is like a small ignorant child. I don't like Pride, though. Wrath and Sloth... I don't know. I think I am the ONLY person who honestly was happy to see Greed die. I didn't like him, at all... **shrugs**
They want to get souls, but they're doing it by killing anyone and everyone who may get in their way. I'd be happy to give them a soul, so then I could take it away.
QUOTE(Crimsonblade @ Jul 29 2004, 05:49 PM)
Well, after watching the subbed version of 42, I've decided that I will hate Hohenhiem, as he is obviously controlling the Homonculous, and I hate all of them except for Greed. Because Greed was a rebel and he rocked.

I dont think he controls the Homoculus... the "he" must be 100 years old bcoz "he" sealed Greed. Maybe someone else... who related to Dante's death...
mad.gif Vael for that your no longer alllowed to post anything.

Damn looking over at my side bar i just noticed what im from now on calling the greed emoticon cool.gif .

I believe that after full metal alchemist has finished they should create a new series or possible a OAV about greed's life 100 yars ago, they could call it something along the lines of......

GHG- Great Homonculus Greed.

And on a more serious note who here would be intrested in a new series focussing on the lesser state alchemists, Take a look at some of the shots of the alchemists in the ishbal massacre scenes, theres a few damn cool looking guys there
IPB Image

Definetely Ed and Al's Father. look at the face, without a doubt he is an elric.
If being an Elric means grinning stupidly like an idiot laugh.gif
Oh come now, Psyco, isn't that a bit harsh? tongue.gif

Anyway, back to the subject, this is really confusing. I was thinking maybe Hohenheim wasn't giving direct orders to the homunculus, but maybe he was just creating them... With Pride saying that he got direct orders from "that person", and Envy saying "that person" wanted Edward alive (episode 22 or 23, can't remember), I don't know. Maybe he's a really bad father, or it's an extremely complicated situation. And Edward's hatred for him might not be completely irrelevant...

Oh well. We'll see.
No way is Hohenheim of the light controlling the Homoculus. It's clear to me that Dante/Lyla is.

I think Hohenheim left his family because the Homonculus were looking for him. They probably were trying to force him to make the Philospher's stone but he refused. So he left his family to protect them.

That's just my crazy opinion though.
QUOTE(odoridan @ Jul 30 2004, 06:21 PM)
No way is Hohenheim of the light controlling the Homoculus.  It's clear to me that Dante/Lyla is.

I think Hohenheim left his family because the Homonculus were looking for him.  They probably were trying to force him to make the Philospher's stone but he refused.  So he left his family to protect them.

That's just my crazy opinion though.

I guess that would go along with the whole Elric, "Don't say anything because I'm worried you're gonna get brutally killed" mantra.

What episode is that pic from???
It's a preview picture for Episode 43 on the FMA Official Site.

Hohenheim Elric surely does have a hilarious face. After all, Ed and Al had to take after their faces, and this surely is _the_ Elric face XD

I know he's the man the military searches for, probably the creator of the Homonculi (where Greed rock..ed cool.gif, Lust is getting more human-like, Gluttony is cute in his wtf kind of way, and Envy shall burn), a bad father for Ed and Al, an even worse husband for Trisha... but I suddenly couldn't find myself hating him with this face.
I hope he won't be like that psycho Dornkirk-like man like he is in the manga.
I wrote this at the other thread, but I will say anyway,
I think hohenheim might be the one or may not be the one.
But, his timing is too good man.
I think it is about 80 % chances that hohenheim controls Homuculus.
And, it might be possible that he is over 100 years.
Dante should be over 130 years. Dante and Hohenheim know each other well, so we might say there is a connection b/t them. In ep 43, hohenheim said, before train were around, people travel around with river. It might be a tip from story creater for fan about Hohenheim's true age.

If Hohenheim is not the evil one, then he might have a connection with true evil one.
Hohenheim could be the one controlling the homonculus. Envy said that he hated Ed because he carried "his" blood. Don't know who this "him" is but it's probably Hohenheim. And Hohenheim is a rather major character since the next episode is on him.
Hmm. It never occured to me to think that Dante and Hohenheim were in cahoots. I'll have to meditate on that. sleep.gif But Dante seems to be anti-stone while Hohenheim seems to be pro-stone. So it seems unlikely but... who knows.
If she was anti-stone, then why would the homunculus try and get people to create the philosopher's stone under her orders (assuming she is "that person")?

Then again, Pride seemed highly against creating the stone, based on the developments in episodes 41-43.
QUOTE(Vael @ Aug 1 2004, 10:34 PM)
If she was anti-stone, then why would the homunculus try and get people to create the philosopher's stone under her orders (assuming she is "that person")?

Then again, Pride seemed highly against creating the stone, based on the developments in episodes 41-43.

That's an excellent question! ... And I wish I knew the answer to it. As you said, Pride said the stone doesn't exist (He also says it in an earlier episode... when they capture Marco). And Hughes also said that their goal was not to create the stone but... So the question is why create the rumour that people who seek the stone are doomed to misery while actively trying to get people to create it?

And after meditating wink.gif on the subject Dante and Hohenheim in cahoots... I just thought if it is possible that Dante trained Hohenheim or even vice-versa? blink.gif
every homuculus has will of their own and goal even though they have to follow order.
We will have to see the pride's true intention.

My guess is that Pride and his gang try to stop people for making stone because they might be ordered to create the stone with out others knowing about it.
The stone needs about 15000 to 30000 people's life. At ep 72, it took about 7000 soldiers life. I do not know about how many people died in Ishubal, but I think it is around 30000 or maybe morebut it is not impossible to make more than one stone.

The stone has hell of power, but if there are more than one stone, its value goes down. It is simple economic theory. And, because of stone's power every one wants it. Man, you can make people and make tons of monsters with out too much efforts.
Simply, world is on the hand of owner of the stone.

So, I think Pride and his gang try to make with out others to know about it, but help and put talented alchemists in the shitty situation like Lujon from ep35.

I think that is only explaination for their behavior.
All this stuff is a bit much for me >_< is the sub for 43 out yet? (waiting two days...too long...). As for Hohenheim, that one hint at the 5th Lab with Envy saying "that bastard's blood" just about seals that Envy knows and hates Ed's father, who else is a reletive to Ed and has played ANY part thus far in the anime (introducing new characters now...that'd be weird).

So hohenheim is about 85%-90% probably that person. As for the Philo. Stone, my bet- as mentioned in a previous thread, is the possibility the Stone can't be made by humans pretell...because it's made from humans, right? A few humans (incomplete part of humanity) will make an incomplete stone, and a complete Stone can only be made from...(complete humanity). Al is probably a large incomplete stone, possibly could allow him to use alchemy without a transmutation circle- i dont know.

Also, the mystery remains about Hohenhei's age...if what i've heard thus far is true- he was around 100+ years (he must be if he is "that person" because "that person" decided to seal Greed) then there's another force working into this series...a secret that Hohenheim knows, and possibly one known by Dante.

Another mystery that plagues me since the beginning...Hohenheim of the Light was supposed to be famous, right? Why is it no once since like Majihal mentioned him to Ed and Al (i think Marco might've, can't remmeber)? Wouldn't some great alchemist with a title so prestigious like: "The Light" be a bit more open to discussion. pretell has he stayed silent so long, where the HELL has he been?! 10 years? someone had to have found him, and he had to be fairly close, he constantly gives orders to Pride, right?
Hey, Guest
you must watch carefully.
Al is the complete ston.
Hoenheim was famous, but never shown on the story because story is based on the Eric brothers' point of view. Ed hates him. So, They never look for him.

Hoenheim might be enemy of Homuculus or pissed them off one time or two.
Or might be the one who control Homuculus.
who knows.
Yeah...but whats to prive it's the complete stone? Al has yet to try out his possible powers...or more appropriately someone to try out Al, lol
Hell ya. My topic rules.
Has anyone considered this? creating envy does not mean that hoenheim is in control of Homonculus, Ed create sloth yet we don't suspect of him of sinister motives. Is it posible that Hoenhiem created Envy and is now on some type of atonement quest
Al would be the complete stone...All the ingredients needed were used. Scar's arm was the key and he put that in Al. A lot of the troops were wiped out so that takes care of the sacrificing part. And Al can't be touched or something weird happens. I believe he is the stone.

As for Hohenheim...There will be a few answers in episode 44. Maybe not about his age but a few things maybe. The next episode seems rather weird. If you've seen the preview, you might know what I mean. But at least Ed and Al meet Hohenheim again. And Hohenheim seems to explain a little bit.
I cannot wait for the ep 44.
Man, Hohenheim will get puched by his son laugh.gif

As the lazy alchemist said, Al is complete stone with out anymore arguments.
I think I said this somewhere. Hohenheim's arrival is too critical. He came at the right time. It is either luck, or Hohenheim knows current situation. But, I must say, he looks kind of surpriced when he saw his house burn down to the ground.

Envy hates him for some reason. He might not be evil mastermind who controls Homuculus because no one tells his boss in the bad way. If Hohenheim is true evil guy behind the scene and boss of all homuculus, Envy could not have a problem against him. It is the same as real world. No employer employs anyone who has problems with employer. At this point, I am not so sure about hohenheim's true intention.

I believe Envy does not like because maybe, hohenheim used be one of candidate for one who can make the stone, but Hohenheim did not do what humuculus expected, and Envy might be pissed up towards him. Mayber Hohenheim killed some humuculus. You know current lust is second lust. So, something must be happened to last lust. My guess is that hohenheim might kill the last lust.

There are two theories about Envy and Hohenheim's relationship.
1. Envy might have been created by hohenheim
2. Hohenheim pissed Envy bad enough to hate Hohenheim more than anything.

1 => I belive every homuculus does not seem to like creater. For Wrath, he does not like his mother too much. But, Greed does not seem to hate Dante, but fear her. It is complicated issue.
Greed probably feared Dante because she still had his bones, and his skull was floating around, so he was more trapped then the other humunculus.

Also, in terms of the P. Stone, although you two think Al's complete, I still have my doubts. No one, thus far, has made the complete stone...except maybe Hohenheim, but thus far it hasn't surfaced. So for all we know, Al MAY be the P. Stone, or not. The other reason I forgot to bring up in the last couple posts is the fact Pride said "humans cannot obtain it- it doesn't exist". There must be a "complete P. Stone. If Pride is correct, and he is in contact with Hohenheim, here's a guess or two situations:

-There is no complete P. Stone, plain and simple, and no one will ever obtain it
-The complete stone IS all of humanity
-Al is the complete Stone, and Hohenheim came to Rizenbul to find him, and possibly use him.

In terms of Hohenheim's arrival, i seriously doubt it's by chance. MY bet is that Hohenheim told Pride to have the army chase Ed and Al, forcing them to return to Rizenbul (after hearing of the incident at Lior) where Hoheheim would meet them, and Al more specifically and attempt stuff on him- who knows.

As mentioned before, I believe it is a plausible that Al is only a large incomplete stone. Thus far, there is no knowledge of anyone making the complete stone, all of it were theories, and then again, Ed and Al had a theory that sounded perfect- the components there to resurrect their mother. The idea that incomplete parts of humanity makes incomplete stones is a good idea. The fact alchemy is a science, this sounds right:

Incomplete= Incomplete
Whole= Whole

And the fact Pride said himself, humans cannot make the P. Stone, is a large contribution to this possibility. If there's no humans left, then humans can't obtain the P. Stone XD. This is my theory, and I'm sticking by it until I see proof Al is complete, and thus far, there hasn't been any action within the series to totally define it. All recipies for the Stone thus far have been compiled by Marco and various resources over the series. All of them have never unless Hohenheim has one...I very much doubt anyone is positive about it.
Actually, those make sense. Perhaps there is no stone or perhaps the philosopher's stone is a metaphor for something else. Such as humanity. And Pride did say no human could have the stone and that it doesn't exist...But Al does not have a human's body. But then Pride seems to know quite a bit so perhaps there is no stone after all.

I kind of expected Hohenheim to have a more clear reaction to the burnt-down house instead of just scratching his head. And before this is all over, Lyla is most likely to make an appearance. And maybe Archer too. He didn't die. So maybe he has some minor part left.

I have little theories because all of yours make sense and yet they don't. So I'd rather watch and see as the whole thing plays out. But it's fun to speculate. And the next episode looks rather interesting. I wish the preview made more sense, though.
I see, hmm
Guest's idea reminds of Izumi's test.
Izumi asked Eric brothers to answer all is one and one is all.
And they figure out all is world and one is myself.
And, I think it makes sense.
the true form of stone might need every human lives in the world.

It reminds me of Evangelion. laugh.gif
It is out of the topic, but in the evangelion everyone turns into red liquid, and every human being turns into the ocean of red water except Sinji and Asuka.
Ahh, it was the most famous anime before 2000.
But, I love FMA more than evangelion. smile.gif

For the conclusion, we have to see what will happen in the future.
I hope FMA has a longer series. I believe it will end at 56 eps or something.
They should make another season out of it.
What do you guys think??
Man, Inuyasha has one of the longest season just like Ranma 1/2.
I hope FMA's director and story maker should extend it after it finishes with the P.stone. I am sure there should be the bigger world besides central, eastern, and etc.
And, I cannot wait for the movie.
FMA is like 51 or 52 episodes. I do believe that the p. stone requires all human lives because it seems more reasonable. I think, Archer is gonna return as a Chimera. It seems like thats the only way he is going to "live". Like what they did to the other soldiers. I haven't seen 43, but I'm looking forward to it. I don't think they should extend the story for FMA. Why fix something that isn't broken. I wished the anime followed the manga more closely, because a lot of tension is being built up in the manga now. I wish they made an OVA or was a OAV (doesn't matter) about each homunculus. We know about Sloth's, Wrath's, and little of Lust's past, but I want to see the relationship of Greed's and Dante's, I think they might have been lovers. I still want to know about Dante's death as well. How could have she been cut in half so easily?
OVA is good idea, just like Kenshin.
Greed and Dante's relationship might be worth while to watch if they make one.
What I want to know is about the story of Envy. This evil dude does not even remember his original form.

But, if I am an invester of this anime or CEO of square enix, I will make another season with totally different story line. It is worth it. FMA is the most famous anime at this point. And, there are fans like us who will watch it. So, it is not 100% impossible.
But, I must agree about OVA idea.
I don't want to see the story to drawn out, more FMA isn't a bad thing, but to much is. I do want to see the anime version based corresponding to the manga however. The chances of that is zero to none. Depending on how the series is gonna end really depends on if they are going to extend the series or not.
I hope it can be extended.
But its chance is really slim.
I believe it is possible for us fans to expect FMA with manga version as OVA format with bettter graphic, but actually, it is almost impossible, manga story line and anime story line is really similar until volume 7. I think it twists from volume8.
Anime story creater did a great job with the whole story.
Just like Guest said, I hope to see OVA with back ground story with Homuculus.
Anyway, I wonder what they will use for movie.
I hope the movie ends FMA once for all just like Evangelion.
I do not want to see another Inuyasha type side story movie.
I believe it will come out 2005.
Man, time goes fast.
The evangelion movie was fanbased ending. No one liked how it actually ended so they decided to make another that the fans liked
Gainax did not clearfy the ending of the story with T.V series. There was no ending to begin with in T.V story line. It gives many BS factors to drive fans to question about Evangelion. I hated the ending, but there were geeks and noobs who loved the T.V ending. I do not know you were watching anime at that time, but there were many anime forums in Asia, and all of them only talks about Evangelion.
And, I believe Gainax had a plan for movie before the end of T.V series. last few episodes were given to fans to think about the show before the movie hits them.

Most of all, Gainax made over several hundreds milion dollar from Evangelion. Do you think they created the movie for fan? It is not fanbased. The movie was created and designed to gather more popularity to gather more money. More people question about the ending, more people will watch the movie. It is simple business method.
True Alchemists' right bout the Gainex thing probably XD. This is "The Thinker doing a quick update after watching the sub of 43.

In terms of the result of Ed's reaction being different then a normal P. Stone, it the P. Stone, naturally increases with power, so Al is most likely CLOSER to the complete Stone.

Remember in the 5th Lab, there was a LOT more liquified P. Stone then all the soldiers in Lior. All of that channeled through Ed, and he went berserk and his power became uncontrollable. On a smaller level, with Ed touching Al (touching the Stone's liquid form), he was able to keep his senses and saw the Gate, which he probably saw at the 5th Labrotory, but was being shocked too much to really remember.

Just another theory from me XD.
Guest, you have a good point, but it is not really right.
At the 5th lab, it was not liquified P. Stone. It was red water, which is also known as Incomplete Philosopher’s stone. It can only increase power of alchemist, and it can also break the law of Equivalence trade in this anime. But, I do not believe incomplete philosopher's stone has enough power to perfect human alchemy, which is the highest level of alchemy in this anime.

In 5th lab, red water only increased Ed's power, but it has no potential to open the gate, but with Al and the philosopher's stone, Ed can open the gate and master every human alchemy in the anime.

Amount of red water does not mean anything. At the Zerotime town, they were tons of red water, but it does not mean they used people to create Red water. Red water in 5th might not contain people's lives. If they have people's lives, they should not even need prisoners as sacrifices. There were only 20 of them or so.

And, you might forget about Ishubal. Scar's arm contained lives of people of Ishubal.
But, it was not enough. But, now with 1000 more lives, they perfected the true philosopher's stone. In the narration at ep 43 before the song starts , Al talks about the philosopher's stone. And, we can assume that Al is the philosopher's stone unfortunatly.
And, Ed cannot touch because Ed might start some alchemy with out himself knowing about it, and Al might be destoyed after Alchemy is performed.
Hey all, I just kinda decided to put my own 2 cents into the bin:

I don't think that the Hohenhiem is in charge of the sins, and that its rather Dante as Lyla. This is for a couple of reasons - the first Envy being pissed off and saying that Ed had that bastards blood, the second in one of the scenes in one of the more recent eps (can't remember which one right now) Gluttony mentions 'she' in reference to the orders that he and Lust had.
The Hohenhiem is definitely speical, but I think that he is one of the good guys. I think that he betrayed the sins - but there is something more interesting in what he was saying throughout the episode. Its almost as if he has no memories of the past few years. Look at it all in scope. He didn't know about his house burning, he didn't remember Winry (thinking that she was Sarah, kinda like he never expected that it could be Winry), Sloth is his wife - yet, when you take in the bulk of everything he seems as if he didn't know that his wife was dead (grave scene mixed with the idea that if he found his wife as Sloth that would beg the question where are his kids and thus have learned about his house being burnt). Under this light, I have begun to wonder a couple of things:
- How did he betray the sins?
- Why did he betray the sins?
- Where has he been all this time?
- Why are his recent memories seem to be erased?
- Why are the sins so interested in the bloodline?
( This one is the one most interesting. Why focus on the Elric's and nobody else to produce the Philosopher's Stone?)
- Whoever is controlling the Sins, what is their motive? What do they want to happen, and are they possibily manipulating the sins into thinking what they think to further their own agenda?
^^^ but if you think of it that way couldn't he have lost his memories in exhange for a homuculus
It would be awsome if they were to make an OVA. They really could do with it what they did with either Kenshin or even Escaflowne.

Kenshin: They can show episodes that deal with peoples' pasts. As stated above seeing the homunculus turn into Homunculus(the humans dying, then someone tries to ressurect them and fails and then the hounculus is born). I would also like to see the Ishbar war. I think they could explain alot more with it, like how was the Homunculus involed etc.

Escaflowne: There was Escaflowne and then they made a movie putting the entire fstory into a movie. I think it would be awsome if they were to do that. Retell the story with better animation and thinking of new ways to explain each detail.
There will be movie about FMA.

OVA will not be possible for homuculii's past.

Only posibility for OVA is manga version.
I still believe Dante is the one moving everything in the background. I believe she made both Greed and Envy with the Hoenheims help(she knew the Hoenheim, she mentioned him in the episode Dante was introduced).

Dante never really did anything for anyone. She taught Izumi Alchemsy but even Izumi didnt trust her. When the Elrics were there they weren't taught anything, they were really just there.

I have an interesting theory about Dante and the Hoenheim. Possibly they were both Alchemists and as I said above they created Greed and Envy together. They could have been collegues that died and both Dante and Hoenheim wanted to try their hands and human transmutation.
So, they try to bring Greed and Envy back to life and fail. They, lik Izumi and Ed, see the doorway and are given knowledge about Alchemy. Possibly they were given the knowledge of Immortality and the speacial transmutation circles(like the one that Greed was standing on that made him spit up the stones).
So this whole time Dante loved the Hoeniem but he never loved her. Then the Hoenheim meets Trisha and they fall in love and have kids.
So this leaves Dante angry and she goes crazy, leads the Homunculus to try to get the Philosiphers Stone to destroy everything. This would be an excellent reason for th EHomunculus to concentrate on the Elric bloodline ^___^
QUOTE(WaveMaster @ Aug 3 2004, 02:27 AM)
The evangelion movie was fanbased ending. No one liked how it actually ended so they decided to make another that the fans liked

BTW the person above was me XD

Sorry for the double post. But I have to say I HATE HATE HATE Evagelion! It is the most over exagerated anime ever! Peopel love it for some reason and it is just, well, stupid! They put alot of thought into it and try to throw in so many twists to confuse you...and the ending. Both the movie and tv ending sucked. Such a stupid series...just like Serial Experiments Lain.
It is only possible if Dante is like Orochimaru.

But, I do not expect that.

No, Greed was born at the Dante's house.
I do not believe Hoenheim is involved with Dante.

Unlike manga, Homuculus only created by the failure of human alchemy, and most of time, it is faillure of human rivaval.

You guys are forgetting one thing.
Dante has been chopped up into two half.

Izumi should know if it is fake.
I think someone sliced her up.
The problem is who???
Well, I agree with you - Orochimaru-type people have been a little popular in the speculation world lately I suppose. I just have a hard time thinking that Dante is dead for a couple of reasons. The first is strictly from a story aspect - Dante was introduced and lasted in only a couple of episodes. She had this aura of being important, but outside of telling them about the Hoheniem she really didn't do a whole lot on screen. That makes little sense if you are writing a character like that. The other factor is the pseudo-change in Leyla. She has had three distinct appearnces in the series - she's far more darker and more cryptic (at least IMO) now then she was beforehand. Furthermore, she knew far more then she should have known about Greed. And besides, I don't think it would be entirely too difficult for an alchemist that Dante is supposed to be to do a form of soul alchemy, similair to what Ed did to Al, on a human being.
While I agree, its kinda a stretch for Dante to be a live there just that nagging feeling in my gut that says we have no finished seeing her yet, and that she is pulling the strings in the background to further some obscure agenda.
I never consider as Dante more than just sub character until Researcher came up the idea of Dante's inferno.
And, I realize Dante might be more than just single alchemist.

I think we will get more info about Lyla in ep44.
It will help us to know about Dante.
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