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Night Watcher Alchemist
Okay! My last post was too vague, so here's a more clear one! Why do young people (teenagers) have sex before they are married? What age should sex be allowed at? Should we have sex education in school and what age? Do you think it would make teenagers want to have sex more or less?

EDIT: Night Watcher Alchemist, thank you for being a little more specific with your topic! I changed the title as well as the description so its more to the point. Also changed a few of the poll answers. When you do your titles please make sure that its actually about the topic your making the thread about okay? smile.gif Not titles like "I don't get it" or "what the hell?!" just for example. Again if you're going to post a new thread be sure to send it to me first and I'll give the yes or no! ~Scar

Edit II: Because the conversation has headed in such a direction, I have altered this topics opening post (this one). If this topic is completely different to the discussion you wanted Night Watcher Alchemist, let one of us know, namely me since I made the last edits. Once the topic has been established I will remove all needless edit notes and irrelevant posts - Chi
Broken Chouchou
The legal age for sex is 15 where I live, and that's before you're an official adult (which is at 18). And I think that's perfectly fine, talking about at what age you should be allowed to have sex. In the US the legal age is 18, which a bit ridicilous if you ask me, in terms of two 17 - year olds feeling itchy. I doubt far from everyone follows this provision, anyway; if people want to 'do it' they will, regardless of rules made up by the government.

In regards of an adult sleeping with a minor though, the 18 year law is probably healthier than the 15 year one. I don't think it should be legal for someone 30 + (as an example) to engage sexually with a 15 - year old. It's a bit scary, IMO. So there's two sides to it. But I suppose the 18 year rule might actually be better, seeing as in the respect that if you're a minor and want to do it with your minor partner, the rule won't matter much, as I expressed above, but it will still legally restrict creeps from, well, going younger.

Anyway, yes, I think sex before official adulthood (18) is fine. Everyone matures at a different pace. What's important though is knowledge, and that you're sensible.

I think this pretty much sums up my general opinions.
Night Watcher Alchemist
interesting argument, but making things clear, my discussion had started with why do it, yes, but let's look at it this way; yes, I suppose minors having an intercourse, it'd be alright, but the thing is, there's just one question running through my mind with it; have they thought about the consequence. You can't say they're safe, and I've met people who've gotten sick, and have dropped out of school because of pregnancy.

The example is horrible the way high schoolers do it, and that's because middle school kids have started to do it! I'm just questioning if they thought it through, and what went through their heads when they did it.
Chiyo
Sex is unsafe if you don't know what you are doing and rush in to things. If you are careful, though nothing is 100%, you minimise the chance of STD's and pregnancy. Sickness is generally a part of pregnancy (and in the case of people at school, probably an excellent excuse for time off as shameful as it would be to use it). What people neglect is the emotional effect, hence why Chouchou mentioned maturity.
ScarMySoul
I chose to have sex because it was MY choice. I was young yes, but I was safe about it. If you're properly educated on safe sex, and the outcomes of unprotected sex, such as STDs, pregnancy, etc, then I think its fine. Don't get me wrong I'm married now so the questions here don't really apply to me, BUT, if I had a child in middle school or high school, if they decide to have sex, then hopefully I've educated them enough to be safe. I wouldn't want my child to have sex in middle school, I'd prefer them to wait until they were older. Recently on the news, there was a report about the state of Massachusetts approving the handing out of condoms to 1st graders! Of all of the asinine things you could do, that is the most horrible of them all...

Ultimately it is your choice whether to be abstinent until marriage or to engage in sexual acts, but hopefully you're safe about it.
Broken Chouchou
@Night Watcher Alchemist: Well, education on the subject is really important, as people have already mentioned. If you're well educated, know what you're doing (not that anyone knows what they're doing the first time, hur hur), safe and you feel that you're ready for it, I don't see any reason why you should have to wait until you're 18, just because.

@Scar: How old would one be in 1st grade where you liveth? ohmy.gif
ScarMySoul
@ Chouchou you'd be like 6 or 7 years old in 1st grade in the US... dry.gif I was so mad when I watching this on Fox News Channel
Broken Chouchou
@Scar: That's insane!! We didn't even have any "real" sex ed until 8th grade (about age 14). That on the other hand might be a bit late, perhaps, but of course we weren't completely oblivious up until that point. But 6... Oh dear. At that age I was still an innocent little child *reminisces*
Night Watcher Alchemist
QUOTE (ScarMySoul @ Jul 1 2010, 01:47 PM) *
Recently on the news, there was a report about the state of Massachusetts approving the handing out of condoms to 1st graders! Of all of the asinine things you could do, that is the most horrible of them all...

In conclusion, ultimately it is your choice whether to be abstinent until marriage or to engage in sexual acts, but hopefully you're safe about it. smile.gif


first grade?! have this world gone mad? I thought the state's governor was stupid, but this...ugh! They're going to be traumatized for life, I just know it!
Chiyo
QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Jul 2 2010, 01:20 AM) *
They're going to be traumatized for life, I just know it!


They won't be. They aren't going up to children and thrusting a condom at them saying "this is for sex, take it". Though I agree it is too young what they are trying to do is achieve familiarity with protection BEFORE it reaches the bedroom. Condoms at that age are alien and strange (or at least they should be) so that when they reach the age they are having sexual intercourse they don't avoid condoms because they have already been introduced to them.
A Pierrot's Aria
I find myself more disagreeing with the age people are having sex nowadays. Unless people are religious, and they truly believe that they must wait until they're married, then that's their decision to make; just as non-religious people are free to make their decisions, whether or not it differs from theirs. I'd say they just have to be careful and use contraception in case of unwanted pregnancy and STIs.

I'm fine with teens 16 or over having sex, as long as they're doing it safely, with contraception, to prevent STIs and majorly, unwanted pregnancies- as teen pregnancy is nothing but children having children.

Anyone under that age should certainly be educated in safe sex, and I think that teens wanting to have sex in general nowadays is down to the sexualisation they're exposed to due to things like the media. But I am thoroughly sickened by the idea of the plans that 5 year olds should have sex education. They shouldn't even be thinking about things like that- it just goes back to today's teens and kids being sexualised.

To be honest, at one time I would have said age 18 was a better age, but if I did I'd be sort of being nasty toward my sister- also, she's an example of it being okay as long as protection is in the equation, and on top of that, that fact goes to any couple, no matter their age.. [/font]
Broken Chouchou
This thread has gotten through a lot of editing XD

Teen sex, acceptable? Check.

At what age? It's hard setting an age-limit. Everyone matures at a different pace, physically, mentally, and emotionally. I think you need to be mentally ready, and not only physically. And who's to say when that is? I guess only the individual can truly decide that for themselves. But when talking younger teens, you are still a child, and likely your judgement isn't as good as you think it is. It's difficult. I'll leave this decision for the parents to discuss with their kids ^^;;

The legal age of 18 is good, though, for reasons mentioned in previous posts.

Shall we provide sex-ed? YES. This is really important.

At what age? 11- 12-ish? The first I heard of sex from school was in bio-class, when learning of "birds and bees". And then when watching educational movies about puberty, which we were slowly but surely approaching. And down that road it was. Proper sexual education though, specifically referring to itself as that, when educated about contraceptive methods, going through the full catalogue of STDs and all that, wasn't until I was 14. I think a bit earlier would be fine.

And then I just wanna add that A Pierrot's Aria said things a lot smoother than I did (first part of her post). Completely agree with her ^^

EDIT: Actually, after some thinking, I believe 15, the legal age here where I live, is a good limit. Below that, and I think that may be too young. But as I already said, it comes down to the person... (there's a lot of 'buts' in my posts I notice)

@A Pierrot's Aria - Interesting what you about the sexualisation. I can't say whether the sex (in all it's forms) in the media directly affects 'the actual 'wanting to have sex'. But it surely has us exposed to it in low ages. So in that way I suppose it might contribute. But reasearch also shows that we're reaching puberty earlier and earlier, and that has to be a big factor as well.
A Pierrot's Aria
QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Jul 2 2010, 06:23 PM) *
@A Pierrot's Aria - Interesting what you about the sexualisation. I can't say whether the sex (in all it's forms) in the media directly affects 'the actual 'wanting to have sex'. But it surely has us exposed to it in low ages. So in that way I suppose it might contribute. But reasearch also shows that we're reaching puberty earlier and earlier, and that has to be a big factor as well.


Most of the time it probably doesn't, but it also affects the way young girls and boys dress, as well as inform them of things that even I didn't know when I was their age. You know, they know all these vulgar and sexual words and they want to look 'sexy', and perhaps in some cases, does make them want to have sex. I'm not sure, I guess it depends on their exposure. xD It's freaky to hear 9 and 10 year olds talking about sex and having sex, and similarly it just doesn't seem right for people under 16 to go around doing it...It just seems kind of...a shame, really... (Not as in being 'shameful' per se, but more, a shame because they feel they need to go on and do that so young).

And your second point is interesting too...I'm not sure whether or not you mean physically reaching puberty, but I find it is clear to see that children, when they reach their early teens, are growing up too quickly these days- I find they do want to get into a relationship, have sex and even some occasions, start a family. It's like they don't want to have a fun-filled, easy going childhood, they're so concerned about being adult and doing adult things.
Broken Chouchou
QUOTE (A Pierrot's Aria @ Jul 2 2010, 09:14 PM) *
Most of the time it probably doesn't, but it also affects the way young girls and boys dress, as well as inform them of things that even I didn't know when I was their age. You know, they know all these vulgar and sexual words and they want to look 'sexy', and perhaps in some cases, does make them want to have sex. I'm not sure, I guess it depends on their exposure. xD It's freaky to hear 9 and 10 year olds talking about sex and having sex, and similarly it just doesn't seem right for people under 16 to go around doing it...It just seems kind of...a shame, really... (Not as in being 'shameful' per se, but more, a shame because they feel they need to go on and do that so young).


Oh okay, then I understand what you mean ^^ In this regard I fully agree that our overly sexualised society is doing all that you say it does, I see it myself. But when a 10 year old talks about sex, or if they're saying they 'want to have it', I seeeeriously doubt they have any idea at all what they're really talking about, they just "want it" because it's "cool", and because the pretty girls on TV have it (in case of girls). At 10 you don't even understand the concept of sex, and wanting it.

... Right? unsure.gif I pray so, at least. Otherwise, the world has changed more than I feared.

But yes, it's tragic that people want to grow up so fast. Childhood is something precious that you should treasure while it lasts. Because we'll all grow up one day anyway, whether we like it or not. Why want to hurry that process! Of course it's easy to say this from the perspective of an almost-adult XD

QUOTE (A Pierrot's Aria @ Jul 2 2010, 09:14 PM) *
And your second point is interesting too...I'm not sure whether or not you mean physically reaching puberty, but I find it is clear to see that children, when they reach their early teens, are growing up too quickly these days- I find they do want to get into a relationship, have sex and even some occasions, start a family. It's like they don't want to have a fun-filled, easy going childhood, they're so concerned about being adult and doing adult things.


I actually meant physically. All these toxins and chemicals we're being subjected to daily is a theory on why it's happened/happening. Which reminds me, a few days ago I read an article in the newspapers about a girl who got her period at age 3.5. And there wasn't a disease or anything like that behind it; her hypophysis had simply started producing hormones that early, without any apparant reason.

Anyway, growing up faster physically probably affects you psychologically too. But I think it's more to blame on society in this case, which I understand is your main point.
Night Watcher Alchemist
@A Pierrot's Aria - You make an interesting argument! In all honesty, yes, I agree that one should be smart; I have friends who have done this. They are younger than sixteen, and to put it blunt, got lucky.

When I posted the poll, I wanted to see what everyone had thought of the concept. I truly didn't want to be biased towards anybody, but looking at what's said, one can easily say that even then it was vague (I thank ScarMySoul for the help).

I try my best, but in all truth, I still don't quite understand the intimidation, which is why I started the topic. I think I'm getting it a little more, so thanks to all!
Popogeejo
okay, onto the meat of this post;
QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Jul 1 2010, 03:04 PM) *
Why do young people (teenagers) have sex before they are married?

Because they want to have sex. The media clearly shows sex to be enjoyable but only for adults only so like beer and cigarettes teens want to try it. By making it seem mystical and for grown ups only it makes kids, who desperately want to be grown up, want to try it.

QUOTE
What age should sex be allowed at?

uh-oh. Danger question. One could argue that once they're ready and be as vague as that. I'd say the UK's age of consent at 16 is pretty good age. Of course that means nothing. Consent laws are strange. If a 15 year old wants to sleep with his 14 year old girl friend no law will stop 'em and they should have access to contraceptives.

QUOTE
Should we have sex education in school

Yes. No question.

QUOTE
and what age?

10 or 11 for the basics (babies, safety, sexuality and mutual respect.) At 13-14 I'd probably consider educating them about more "dirty" subjects though I dislike the term dirty.
Kids should learn about things like what constitutes rape (not just forced sex but other things like non-consensual acts that can be done during consensual sex (external ejaculation etc.) They should also know that they need to be open with their partners.

QUOTE
Do you think it would make teenagers want to have sex more or less?

Neither. Hormones do that, not information. By de-mystifying sex these kids can make better choices and if they want to have sex they can do it in a safer manner. By not educating them you make sex seem taboo so when they do have sex and something goes wrong because they haven't been properly educated about contraception they'll be less inclined to seek help. By knowing what they're doing and being able to talk about sex if something goes wrong they won't be scared about seeking help.

QUOTE
Why do people want to do sex with some random person, and why even have sex, at all, before you get married?

Because it's nice. With a consenting partner and a good setting it's fun and safe. "Random people" is a bit odd. Most people do it with people they've gotten to know on some level. It's rare someone will just go out and sleep with a total stranger. Some people do that though. As long as they do it safely and consensually it's fine, I guess.

QUOTE
I'm living my life to it's fullest, and am not going to do it,

Good for you.

Sex is something young people should be able to talk about. They should know the ins and outs and how to do it safely and comfortably. It should be open and considered as just another thing people do. By making it seem like this mysterious act for adults or an act that makes romantic relationships "real" you'll just make kids want to do it more despite not truly being ready. The white text in this thread is just adding to the problem.
"We can't talk about sex in the open! It's a secret! Shh."
Young teens want to try and present themselves as mature and grown up so if they think sex is a mature and grown up act they'll want to try it, if only for bragging rights. It's the same reason you get so many kids sneaking beer and smokes. If they had normal access to such things they probably wouldn't be nearly as much kids doing that stuff.

A Pierrot's Aria
QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Jul 2 2010, 08:42 PM) *
I actually meant physically. All these toxins and chemicals we're being subjected to daily is a theory on why it's happened/happening. Which reminds me, a few days ago I read an article in the newspapers about a girl who got her period at age 3.5. And there wasn't a disease or anything like that behind it; her hypophysis had simply started producing hormones that early, without any apparant reason.

Anyway, growing up faster physically probably affects you psychologically too. But I think it's more to blame on society in this case, which I understand is your main point.


Aaaah, right. smile.gif Then yes, in that case I think it's entirely plausible for psychological affects of early puberty to take hold.

@Night Watcher Alchemist I see what you mean about them being lucky. As Popogeejo says, it's one of the things that teens like to brag about. xD I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard people under 16 brag about "getting some". o.o

@Popogeejo It's not that it's about sex, the white-out text is the opinions which concern the original title of the thread which was to do with premarital sex rather than teen sex. xD The thread title got changed and the previous comments got colour changed by the mods because most of us got onto the subject of teen sex rather that premarital, so now the latter is off-topic. smile.gif
Broken Chouchou
QUOTE (Popogeejo @ Jul 3 2010, 12:44 AM) *
If they had normal access to such things they probably wouldn't be nearly as much kids doing that stuff.


Well, when regarding sex, I don't know. Would being knowledgable about it beforehand really make it less exciting? How much is hormones and how much is psychology?

Anyway, it's been argued back and forth whether or not to let your children have access to alcohol, in an attempt to make it less "exciting", really is a wise decision. "Better have them drunk at home than out on the street, right?".
Some articles and studies have said that in these families, the children drink more on an average compared to those who haven't had access to alcohol at home. Instead of the "being-used-to-it" factor resulting in the effect of alcohol seeming less intriguing, and less lucrative, chanses are moderate that you'll develop a habit of drinking, and maybe an addiction. That's the trend, anyway, and at any rate it certainly doesn't stop people from drinking.

According to the articles I've read. I'm sure there are studies that say otherwise.
Night Watcher Alchemist
no offense, but he has a point! if you look at it physically, you'll think that making it less exciting will make it less exciting. Hormones do play a major role as far as I'm concerned.

True! I vowed myself to be a virgin, but that does not mean at being a virgin, you don't think about it. Just because you make yourself as something, and looking at what you're up against, knowing it's wrong, you will still think about it, and may be tempted to do it!

The way I was introduced to it made me worried, and not to mention cautious, but the only reason I was able to see sex that way is because I had an environment to help me look at it that way. It does not mean said environment prevents me from thinking about it.

These two factors, yes, play important roles, but I do believe one is missing, and that's the way said people grew up. This I've recently learned. So, if you think hormones, and the psycological things are alone, for there's still one thing left that will provoke you!
FMAobsessed
Teens will have sex if they want to. They will find a way. They see it everyday on the internet or on television shows, even the news will cover sex scandals. If you watch shows like Law and Order there are episodes dealing with teen rape and sex. There are some out there that think just because they saw it on TV makes it ok to do it in real life. And yes sex is fine to do, but make sure you know the precautions and things.

I had Sex Ed in middle school, but they just covered the same topic, which was if you are a female was, "Women have Periods." Yeah, no kidding it was only the third year in a row we were learning that.
Night Watcher Alchemist
QUOTE (FMAobsessed @ Jul 2 2010, 08:51 PM) *
Teens will have sex if they want to. They will find a way. They see it everyday on the internet or on television shows, even the news will cover sex scandals. If you watch shows like Law and Order there are episodes dealing with teen rape and sex. There are some out there that think just because they saw it on TV makes it ok to do it in real life. And yes sex is fine to do, but make sure you know the precautions and things.


again with an interesting concept! FMAobsessed, you do point at a strong point to where they have the idea, but do you believe that's all it is, or do you just plan to scratch the surface. Like I said, I do believe there is more behind it; a lot of people have given some examples.
FMAobsessed
@Night Watcher Alchemist: I also believe that it is hormones too that are making teenagers want to have sex. I am sure our parents and grandparents thought about sex when they were teens. But I feel like they weren't as exposed to it as teens nowadays. I mean there are shows now like the Bachelor or Jersey Shore where it is all about group orgies and getting in bed with as many people as possible. Almost like a competition or something. Well the shows that my parents and grandparents watched during the 60's, were family oriented. Most of the time the master bedroom was never shown. (ie, the 1950's sitcom Leave it to Beaver) Or if the master bedroom was shown it was shown that the married couple slept in seperate twin beds. (ie, the 1950's sitcom The Andy Griffith Show I believe.) So in my opinion I feel like it is hormones and the fast paced life of sex that is making it seem interesting to try for teens. Plus shows like the Bachelor or The Girls Next Door aren't talking about the consequences with sex. There aren't shows out there that are called "If you Have Unprotected Sex, Chances Are You Will Get An STD"

But honestly I would have to look up articles if TV and the media influences teenagers ideas about sex. This is just my opinion with no sources backing it up. But if need be I could try to find some sources.
Chiyo
I think if you look at the media as a creature to blame, it isn't just sex. Children are not children for as long as they used to be I would say. In the most simple example, when I was young I had a Barbie and she had several "jobs". My younger sister had a Bratz that came with...clothing and a date I think. Instead of having a doll to role play as a teacher/nurse/vet...you have a doll that's goal is to make its over emphasized hips and lips look good to get itself a date. Though I don't deny Barbie has quite a look/body, those Bratz were designed to scream "sexual appeal".

Swerving quickly off topic though. What I am trying to get at is that children are influenced to be adults before they have even hit puberty. No need to wait to be an adult to have sex if you've been wearing thongs since you were 7.
Night Watcher Alchemist
@Chiyo: That's kinda the reason my family is against the doll. If kids are influenced to become adults, it will provoke some mature thoughts.
jacksparrow589
If I may throw in my two bits...

Like several others have stated, I'm okay with the idea that teens above about 15 (at the very youngest) having sex as long as they know what they are doing in terms of protection and just being safe in general, and (here's the catch, which really applies to any thoughts I have on relationships) that there is a decent amount of trust, love, preparedness, willingness, etc. I know that teens will be teens and that hormones and general lack of maturity and development don't help things, but that's where sex-ed comes in.

Personally, I went to Catholic schools that offered (in my opinion) pretty comprehensive sex-ed starting in 5th grade (10-11 yrs old) where we covered anatomy, puberty and development, and admittedly the sketchiest outlines of what intercourse was. However, we continued in a bit more detail including pregnancy and STDs in 6th grade and 7th grade, and then again in 10th grade, and while heavier emphasis was placed on abstinence as "the best protection" against anything, our teachers made sure we knew about the various forms of protection. I won't say we were encouraged to experiment--we weren't--but compared to other programs I've heard about, sex wasn't as blatantly discouraged in ours. (We were also given a thorough talking-to about how mutual love and trust should be requisite parts of any relationship, sexual or not, and I'd say I very much agree.)

Anyway, back to the question of at what age should sex-ed start, I'd say we handled it pretty well as 5th graders. (As I recall, most kids had had some sort of talk with their parents by then, anyway. I know I had.)

I do agree that the media does not show nearly enough of the consequences of sex, and I feel that it treats most other relatively risky behaviors with the same casualness.

Put simply, again, like others have said, it's not the age that matters to me so much as it is the maturity. Maturity definitely comes with age, though, and I wish there wasn't so much of an emphasis on growing up so quickly. Kids should be informed about what's going on and how to handle it, and thoroughly informed of the consequences.
Night Watcher Alchemist
QUOTE (jacksparrow589 @ Jul 9 2010, 09:04 AM) *
Put simply, again, like others have said, it's not the age that matters to me so much as it is the maturity. Maturity definitely comes with age, though, and I wish there wasn't so much of an emphasis on growing up so quickly. Kids should be informed about what's going on and how to handle it, and thoroughly informed of the consequences.


another good statement, but i just dont like it because ive met some people, who even were smart, and just became broken afterwords...i dont like watching tht happen......
jacksparrow589
^I understand and completely respect that. I'll be the first to admit I've led a relatively sheltered life, so I haven't had firsthand experience (referring to myself, my good friends, and my family--at least, not that anyone's ever said) with the harsher consequences. I really don't think most 15-year-olds are mature enough, to be honest, so I probably shouldn't have left my "acceptable" age that low, but, rare as they may seem, there are those kids who get it. They're certainly not me at that age, or anybody I know/knew. I guess I'm just big on freedom to make informed decisions at the earliest possible time, and that may or may not be a good thing in this case.
Night Watcher Alchemist
another interesting concept. If you look at it in a different perspective, you'd see age doesn't matter, but maturity does; the others had the right idea on that one.

I believe that with doing this, you are making yourself for sale, making yourself worthless, but that's just me; barely anybody I know follows this. However, if one is mature enough, then it's enough.

Mature, apparently, is different in everybody's eyes, so as for a course of what to call mature, there would be several explanations.
jacksparrow589
Ah, I should have specified. By "earliest possible time", I didn't mean a set age--I meant when maturity is reached. I believe I said something similar in my original post with "it's not the age that matters to me so much as it is the maturity", although right after that, I did indeed say that maturity comes with age. That last bit was to prevent people from going, "so if a 10-year-old claims to be mature enough, you're saying they should have sex?" No. Most 10-year-olds are not physically prepared, let alone anywhere near emotionally and/or mentally mature enough, and those that might be would (I hope) have the sense to wait.

I also agree that maturity is very hard to pin down when it's not physical, and therein lies one of the bigger problems. Kids think that they get it and that nothing can go wrong because they've thought of everything when they've really thought of nothing but their own pleasure, and it's sad.

As to self-respect, I was lucky enough to nearly always be surrounded by people who cared and told me I was worth something as a person, and I've definitely lived by telling myself, "I'm enough for me, and I'm not going to 'sell' myself to anyone." (In terms of sex, drugs, etc.) I think that sex-ed sometimes neglects the "you don't need sex to be worth anything" component, or it sounds so cheesy that people don't believe it. It's frustrating to see people think that way, but there's only so much any one person can do.

There's obviously no single approach to sex-ed that works for every single person, but I'd submit that almost any is better than none at all. Beyond that, there really isn't much else anyone can do.
Night Watcher Alchemist
@jacksparrow589-that's a very true fact, and it's a shame barely anyone understands it...they just have a sense that goes past judgment. One can only hope others will learn, but if they are maturely taught then there's a chance, but you never know, I suppose....
Edward Cardinal Elric
I find it truly surprising (and disheartening) how vehemently the overwhelming number of respondents in this thread express support for "sex education" within the school system. I would think it to be merely common sense for such a controversial and debated topic to be kept out of the realm of public education. While it seems that many support the inclusion of such classes in schools on the basis of providing purely factual matter on the topic of sexual intercourse, such arguments fail to recognize the reality that some individuals object to the content presented in most sex education courses on the basis of morality. Simply by presenting instructional content relating to contraception and the like, educational systems tacitly present certain moral and ethical viewpoints to school children. I believe (and hope) that most individuals would agree with me that the public education system has no business in instructing pupils regarding controversial moral issues.

The points that I have presented above lead to a single conclusion. Parents, as the primary educators of their children, should be the ones to discuss topics relating to sex education with their children. Parents alone should be empowered to decide what sex-related content is proper to present to their children. The public educational system, as a State run institution, ought not to interfere with parents' rights to instruct their children regarding issues of moral significance. While some will inevitably point out the issues of public health which surround the topic of sex education, this concern is moot as the issue of freedom vastly outweighs this (fairly wrongheaded) argument.

As to the topic of the proper age for teen sexual activity, I really do not care much to address this issue as stated. I believe that there is solely one proper forum for any and all sexual activity, and this state really isn't tied to any particular age, per say. I support current American law which sets the age of consent at 18, as I believe that this statute has been constructed to protect children from dangerous predators. It is a shame that modern commercialism and so called "liberalism" seeks to sexualize children at an ever younger age, and I think that it is about time that society stands up to protect the young from this manner of corruption.


Hagaren_4ever
I was raised in the Southeastern U.S. The "Bible Belt" as it is so commonly nicknamed. Here we don't have much sex education beyond abstinence. Really, that's just about the only option they explore. They try to say "Oh, it's because it's the only way to keep from getting an STD" or "It's the only way to not get pregnant". *sigh* They even go so far as to tell us that condoms do not work. And so, with that logic in our minds, kid have sex WITHOUT protection because "a condom wouldn't have worked anyway". I'm not making this up. Ugh, this is an increasingly difficult topic to talk about.

Being from an extremely devout family, I was never ALOUD to go to sex education classes until high school. I had to sit in class with the 2 other kids with extremely uptight parents and quite frankly, although I had a bit of an idea, I didn't even know what sex WAS until 8th grade. *sigh* Thank god I left the church.
^My point here is that I don't know much about sex education, all I know is the classes I had in high school, so I don't have much of an opinion either way on that point.

Now. On to the topic at hand of teen sex. I think that it's just something that we need to except. As long as the sun rises every morning, teenagers will be having sex. It's a fact of life. So, I think our attention has to be at teaching teen SAFE sex. And for god's sake, let them know that birth control works, and that condoms can also protect against STDs! Argh! Georgia education systems, just.... AGH!
jacksparrow589
Edward Cardinal Elric--I don't know about other schools or school systems, but I do know that at least in 5th or 6th grade, we had an opt-out policy for sex-ed, and some parents took it. Also, I don't feel that we were being taught that having sex in our teen years (let alone before marriage) is okay. Quite the opposite, in fact, as I attended a Catholic school. You're going to get morality any way you go, and, personally, I don't mind hearing things from someone else's viewpoint. (Mind you, I'm not trying to say you're narrow-minded at all. I'm inserting all these "personally"-type caveats because I can speak only for myself.)

I've talked to my mom and dad, and at least in their formative years, adults simply didn't talk about sex with their children because it was a "dirty secret", and some of my friends (though in the minority now) have had the same experience. I agree that parents should definitely be involved in their children's education, whatever the subject matter, and that it is very important for parents and children to have open lines of communication, but, in my experience, it has sometimes been easier to ask a question to an adult with whom I have no contact outside of school.

Kids will be kids. Predators will be predators. Sadly, the age of consent (and the letter of the law in general) isn't a consideration to those who break it. Teen sex isn't an issue that's just cropped up in recent years--it's almost always been there. But now that the issue has become more publicized, I think teens are less willing to talk with their parents about it out of embarrassment. I'd rather that they get some education than none at all, and if parents and kids won't talk, at least getting questions answered by a certified educator will allow for more informed decisions.

Should parents speak with their children about sex? I say yes without hesitation. Should kids have someone else to go to for information if, for whatever reason, they can't speak with their parents? Again, yes without a doubt.
Night Watcher Alchemist
I say u 3 have some points. Here, though, we do not have these courses which is why, to the day, I have seen more than 5 high school students drop out.

Edward Cardinal Elric- I agree that parents should be the ones to guild young minds, however, the way I see it is that, at least here, some parents push the topic too much, making people rebel, or some just don't care because they did the same thing. It's a shame, but you really have to keep in mind that not all parents have the same opinion on the matter...

Hagaren_4ever- We know this. It's a sad truth that teens will have sex before marriage if they choose, but if one ever looked at why, then maybe it might go down.....with how bad it seems to be getting, it's kinda scary...

jacksparrow598- Once again, we seem to be in agreement; not everyone can turn to their parents, but it's a good place to start. If not their parents then someone they can truly rely on...I would hope not one of their friends, simply because you don't know what they'll say; they may just encourage it.

Whether with or against teen sex, it's okay to at least know of the dangers, and, like said, depending on one's environment, you never know what will happen...
Broken Chouchou
QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Jul 15 2010, 08:12 PM) *
It's a sad truth that teens will have sex before marriage if they choose


It's not a sad truth. It's an objective fact. Everyone doesn't have the same beliefs as you do, so please don't express yours like factual statements.
Night Watcher Alchemist
@Broken chouchou- Sorry if it seemed as such. Simply what I wanted to say was what it was in my eyes.

I find it sad that most teens do this early because, in my eyes, it's a way of writing "For Sale" right on their foreheads...*sigh* I try to get how the intimidation works, but I don't know, really.
Disasterpiece
In my observations, teen sex is wrong on a personal and moral level. In high school for me, it always seemed like a rite of passage to be accepted. I wasn't going to compromise my morals for acceptance, screw that.

My opinion is this: it seems wasted if you have sex, a sacred and truly special intimate act between two people if a boyfriend and girlfriend or a "hookup" do it and then they break up like months later or something like that. Then the cycle repeats. I don't really like that..makes things complicated.

If I want sex I'd want it with someone I'd spend the rest of my life with, marriage or not.
Chiyo
Disasterpiece - who enters a relationship thinking "this won't work out?". You may get together and think it will last forever but very rarely does this happen with the first love of your life. Sex is a natural instinct, as a species we wish to live on, and sometimes that overcomes what we think we should be doing/not doing.
Night Watcher Alchemist
QUOTE (Disasterpiece @ Jul 21 2010, 11:13 PM) *
In my observations, teen sex is wrong on a personal and moral level. In high school for me, it always seemed like a rite of passage to be accepted. I wasn't going to compromise my morals for acceptance, screw that.

My opinion is this: it seems wasted if you have sex, a sacred and truly special intimate act between two people if a boyfriend and girlfriend or a "hookup" do it and then they break up like months later or something like that. Then the cycle repeats. I don't really like that..makes things complicated.

If I want sex I'd want it with someone I'd spend the rest of my life with, marriage or not.


I'm glad you see it this way Disasterpiece, but Chiyo has a point! No teen enters a relationship thinking it won't work. A lot of them think it will, and some don't know, but none do it with those thoughts. I set my morals to be as such, but truly, I don't believe anybody truly knows the dangers of going passed these morals until they've experienced it; this I've seen several times, and yet I still meet people who find out for themselves....
Disasterpiece
QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Jul 22 2010, 08:24 AM) *
QUOTE (Disasterpiece @ Jul 21 2010, 11:13 PM) *
In my observations, teen sex is wrong on a personal and moral level. In high school for me, it always seemed like a rite of passage to be accepted. I wasn't going to compromise my morals for acceptance, screw that.

My opinion is this: it seems wasted if you have sex, a sacred and truly special intimate act between two people if a boyfriend and girlfriend or a "hookup" do it and then they break up like months later or something like that. Then the cycle repeats. I don't really like that..makes things complicated.

If I want sex I'd want it with someone I'd spend the rest of my life with, marriage or not.


I'm glad you see it this way Disasterpiece, but Chiyo has a point! No teen enters a relationship thinking it won't work. A lot of them think it will, and some don't know, but none do it with those thoughts. I set my morals to be as such, but truly, I don't believe anybody truly knows the dangers of going passed these morals until they've experienced it; this I've seen several times, and yet I still meet people who find out for themselves....


There are so many consequences from teen sex, and I'm not talking about pregnancy. I'm talking about STDs and other things, no matter how careful you are. I've even heard my friend brag about how he screwed 3 girls in a week and wanted to have a three way with his girlfriend and other girl. The girlfriend (ex now) and I have become friends the past few months and she broke up with him for that reason: that he wanted a three way.

I've also seen it firsthand ruin relationships because of cheating. I've seen friends split apart over sex with others and it was nasty. Friends of boyfriends and girlfriends pitted against each other.

I want a serious relationship where sex is not an integral part. I want to avoid all that crap.
Night Watcher Alchemist
QUOTE (Disasterpiece @ Jul 31 2010, 08:47 PM) *
I want a serious relationship where sex is not an integral part. I want to avoid all that crap.


You're not the only one! It's why I set myself with a moral as to wait until i meet someone true, and is willing to stay that way. Any guy who says that we should have sex out of love, and doesn't mean it, I can't be with; I don't buy all that crap, anyways. It's how I've seen most people dragged into it, guys included.
jacksparrow589
QUOTE (Disasterpiece @ Jul 31 2010, 08:47 PM) *
I want a serious relationship where sex is not an integral part. I want to avoid all that crap.


Amen to that! Sex doesn't automatically equal love, but some people just can't seem to see past the animal instinct. I, too, find it sad that it's almost a "rite of passage" now. Forget that--I have waited and will continue waiting until I'm in a serious, committed relationship, and I'm almost out of my teens! (Yes, it's possible!) However, I think that Chiyo's point that hardly anybody enters a relationship thinking that it won't work out is crucial. I know that while I had no plans of ending a high school relationship that I was in when it started, when I saw the writing on the wall, even though he never pressured me to do anything, I was glad that we hadn't done anything.

As to issues of cheating and such--I know that this is a place to discuss teen sex, but I'd like to point out that it's not just teens who have issues with cheating, STDs, and pregnancy, though it could be argued either way that those issues are more prevalent among teens. I think peer pressure is definitely more of a factor, but I haven't been pressured as much as I'm sure a lot of kids have, so it's been pretty easy to just give people a sideways look and say no without any second thoughts.

This all very much comes down to questions of morals and maturity, and those questions (at least, the ones concerning morals) generally don't have definitive answers. As I've already posted my opinions on those, I won't repeat them here.
Night Watcher Alchemist
QUOTE (jacksparrow589 @ Aug 1 2010, 09:07 AM) *
This all very much comes down to questions of morals and maturity, and those questions (at least, the ones concerning morals) generally don't have definitive answers. As I've already posted my opinions on those, I won't repeat them here.


One has to find definitive answers, otherwise certain aspects of life won't really make sense. I thought it over and I've come to realize I can't judge if a teenager that can't find the morals to act maturely on this intimidation while others tend to ignore it, challenging what it stands to represent.

Those who challenge don't pay attention to how it feels, while others who don't have the morals don't really find out until too little too late. This only proves how scarring the situation can be one time.

I've come to a bit of a better understanding, but stand by with a simple fact that teenage sex, before you're married, let that be known, is still dangerous. You never know how it will effect you, or the partner (and sometimes, partners), you're doing it with.

As to the act of mature decisions, as said before, if one doesn't have the morals, then it makes it hard to understand. This simple statement alone makes the unmarried teen vulnerable. This fact in mind, you have to look at the people, then at yourself.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, but when you do this, question how you grew the morals you have over them. Those teens who have had sex before marriage, and are posting on this page, this is not directed at you.

Anyways, what I'm saying is that if you do have the morals and they don't, question how you grew it. I grew it with religious beliefs and with a vow to my parents that I wouldn't. Yeah, you can call it lame, but I find it motivational so that way when I find the guy I wanna spend my life with, they won't worry about how the relationship is compared to how it might have been in high school.

I don't know about everyone else, but as long as you have something that keeps you going the way you are, I applaud you, whether you're with me or not. Determination is one thing you need to get through, and I can't go against what my way is anymore than you do.

If I've learned anything through the time I was gone, lustful people with ethics are a bit more dangerous than the averted teen mind...
jacksparrow589
QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Aug 31 2010, 06:25 AM) *
One has to find definitive answers, otherwise certain aspects of life won't really make sense.

Certainly! But people are largely products of their time and place, and while maturity doesn’t vary so much, morals and ethics, especially those about sex, vary widely from culture to culture and era to era. You just have to come to terms with that in a way that, while meshing with basic societal morals, also makes sense to you as an individual.

QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Aug 31 2010, 06:25 AM) *
I've come to a bit of a better understanding, but stand by with a simple fact that teenage sex, before you're married, let that be known, is still dangerous. You never know how it will effect you, or the partner (and sometimes, partners), you're doing it with.

I agree on that last point—you never know what effects sex will have on anyone the first time around. (Whether it's your first time at all, or your first time with a new partner.)

QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Aug 31 2010, 06:25 AM) *
As to the act of mature decisions, as said before, if one doesn't have the morals, then it makes it hard to understand. This simple statement alone makes the unmarried teen vulnerable. This fact in mind, you have to look at the people, then at yourself.

Bear in mind that maturity (even mental maturity) is very much a biological process. Teens don’t have fully developed prefrontal cortexes—the part of the brain that deals with decision-making and long-term planning—so it’s hard for them to see the consequences. However, morals can make up for this deficiency, as you’ve pointed out…

QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Aug 31 2010, 06:25 AM) *
Anyways, what I'm saying is that if you do have the morals and they don't, question how you grew it. I grew it with religious beliefs and with a vow to my parents that I wouldn't.

Hey, good for you! That you can cite the source of your beliefs/morals as your religion is great! I grew up in the Catholic Church, and I did develop a lot of my beliefs and morals during that time, but now, I’m more what you might call “spiritual” (I don’t identify with any one religion, and I’m rather secular about most things), so I don't adhere as strictly to what I learned as a child, but I feel my upbringing within the Catholic Church provided a decent basic framework. (At least, the beliefs did. The jury's still out on the people...)

QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Aug 31 2010, 06:25 AM) *
Yeah, you can call it lame, but I find it motivational so that way when I find the guy I wanna spend my life with, they won't worry about how the relationship is compared to how it might have been in high school.

Good point—comparisons are scary things. But you’ll always be making comparisons from one person/situation to another, even if it’s not sexual.

QUOTE (Night Watcher Alchemist @ Aug 31 2010, 06:25 AM) *
If I've learned anything through the time I was gone, lustful people with ethics are a bit more dangerous than the averted teen mind...

That’s why I hesitate to say “Do what feels right”—somebody will turn it around and use it as justification for something most people find reprehensible.
von Hohenheim
The whole point of having sex education is to inform children about the potential issues with having sex--it's not all fun and games all the time. Now if there are people who already want to have sex before having sex education, that doesn't guarantee they'll change their minds; you can warn people about the potential dangers of sex, and they'll still do it. However, there are people who won't do it, once they've been informed about it.

The problem with teen sex is that it often happens with people who are too ill-informed about sex, which is why I think sex education is necessary.

As for why it happens, I have no idea. There was once a girl on the Maury show who said she wanted to do it because she wanted a child. Probably because she wanted to prove how mature she was.
mellulah
Here's my 2 cents.

I fully support the idea of sex education in schools. I had my first sex education lesson when I was 8 and I feel that it is important to educate children about the importance of contraception and the dangers of STDs.

Personally I lost my virginity when I was underage, I have no regrets about it just who. It just happened and nothing ill came of it. Now I am 18 I realise how young I was and feel a little shocked looking at the 13 year old girls now. I also believe that having sex with one person and breaking up does not make it any less special when you have sex when you find Miss/Mr Right. I also feel that having sex with more than one person in a short span of time does not make you a 'slut', it's an innapropriate label if both parties are consenting. What does make you a 'slut' is playing 2 people at the same time and cheating on someone who trusts you. Threesomes, foursomes and moresomes if that sort of thing floats your boat I'm a-okay with if it's all clear with both parters involved. I'd be far too shy for any of thoose.

It's all down to the individual, some teens are mature enough to handle it I know from personal experience as I have had no negative effects from it, some, like a friend of mine, don't think and end up catching something.
Envy's Lady
We were taught about sex at school when I was 12. That's probably a good age since it is when kids hit puberty. And if they start having urges but don't understand them that's going to be worse. It will make puberty more awkward if they don't even understand what is going on.

And the fact is you can't prevent all teens from having sex so it's best to teach them safe sex in the hopes it will cut down on problems.

It is a fine line though because it teens can avoid having sex, that's for the best in my opinion.

I'm 26 and I still haven't had sex. That is a long time to wait and I would have liked it if I was married earlier. I'm still not married and I personally feel too awkward about doing it before marriage. I've been with my b/f for a few years and I've tried to psych myself into doing it after all this time but I'm so afraid of pregnancy that I just can't even get turned on for the sex. My family has a big no-no against sex before marriage and I'd hate to be the only non-married pregnant person to ever exist in my family.

So I'm holding off but if I turn out to be a 30 year old virgin I probably won't be happy about it. I don't think it's sad for people to still be virgins at that age or anything but I'll just know I spent most of my young life not doing any sex and I wonder if that's a good thing or not.

When people are under 18 though I for sure think that they probably shouldn't be having sex....but we all know some are still going to do it.
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