Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Episode 59: Lost Light - Content Discussion Thread
Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > Fullmetal Alchemist Discussions > Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Anime
Pages: 1, 2
Chiyo
Talk-back/content discussion for English dubbed episode on Adult Swim starts on page 4. smile.gif


Please post the discussions on the content of episode 59 here.
This thread is declared as a Spoiler zone for the content of the first 59 episodes.

Please don't ask for links on where to watch this episode, raw or subbed. Discussions on 'where to watch' belong in Where/How to Watch FMA Series 2. Don't post screencaps unless highlighting something important about the content of the episode. Just like on in most area's of the board, avoid one line posts, spam of any kind or conversations between two members.

Screenshots: please see amestris_star's post.

Summary: Roy ultimately refuses to perform a human transmutation, disappointing the gold-toothed doctor. One of the chimera disables the doctor as May arrives and helps take on the Fuhrer candidates. Roy, Scar, and May fight the Fuhrer candidates, and Roy makes it to Riza. May spots the liquid vial of Philosopher's Stone the doctor dropped, but decides to help Riza instead, using retanjutsu to stop her bleeding. Fuhrer King Bradley arrives, having swam through a drainpipe after falling into the moat. Then Pride arrives. Wrath springs into action, using his swords to nail Roy down into the doctor's alchemy array. Pride uses the gold-toothed doctor and the alchemy circle to force Roy to be a sacrifice. May notices that the source of the weirdness she's been sensing is beneath them, and Scar uses his arm to create a hole. Roy is sent through the Gate and ends up in Father's lair, where Ed discovers his sight has been taken from him. Above, Scar engages in combat with Wrath. May decends to Father's lair and notices that Alphonse hasn't regained consciousness. At the Gate, Alphonse meets his human body, but is dismayed at how malnourished it is. He decides to return without his body, but promises to return. In Father's lair, Alphonse regains consciousness. Father is happy that he has all five sacrifices now. - © Penguintruth, taken with permission from his blog.


*WARNING*

Please follow these simple rules;

-Do not spam.
-Add spoiler tags to spoilers
-Do not go off topic
-Do not fight

Spam means one line posts that contain little content. "OMG that ep was so cool" would be an example of spam. If you enjoyed the episode please specify what you enjoyed so much, was there anything you didn't like?

Spoilers mean anything you know will happen in upcoming episodes. Not everybody reads the manga and you may reveal something they didn't know. For future episode discussion, please go to the relevant topic. If you are unsure how to use spoiler tags, please ask.

Going off topic means discussing a characters actions outside of the episode, or talking about the artwork, or upcoming episodes etc. I know this can happen easily so don't be upset if I move your posts or guide you in the right direction. Double check the forum for the right place to take your post, or if required, start a new topic.

Everybody can voice their opinion, and nobody is correct just as nobody is incorrect. Because none of you will spam (right?) people will justify why they didn't like something. You are welcome to say "well I like that part because..." but you CAN NOT say "no you are wrong because..."
Michiyo-
- Shocked Dr Goldtooth is shocked.
- Here comes the rescue team!
- Some scenes were changed, but I don't mind.
- Roy is so desperate.
- The HUG <333
- Royai moments. <3
- Oh no, Bradley is here.
- I love that Roy and Riza are still holding onto each other. <3
- Poor Roy. I hate Wrath and Pride.
- Wow, cool eyecatch.
- Excellent voice acting.
- And hereís the Gate.
- Roy T_T
- The Wrath vs. Scar fight starts. And thereís new music.
- And Al finally meets his body. Al, youíre such a selfless boy.
- Spoilerish preview.
Iím very happy about the Royai moments, but very sad about what happened to Roy. But I hope that everything will be alright at the end. smile.gif
Gimpyhair
- I loved most of royai scenes: Riza's voice actor was really good, my heart breaked each time she was saying Taisa

- I wish I could say more about Mei's entrance, but yeah, keyhole had some problem with it.

- The DariusxHawkeye eyecatch: epically strange, yet badass!

- The blindRoy scene was lame: it lacked of emotion, or maybe it's because of keyhole, I'm not sure. Also, they didn't show Ed searching for "lost limbs" http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/102/019/ Too bad, I find this joke funny.

- The Al scene was really well done, I really thought he would get his body back, even if I read the manga!
penguintruth
My initial thoughts:

- A cliffhanger in FMA not paying off? HUGE SHOCK.
- Gotta love the way that little glass container of Philosopher's Stone bounces around
- Bradley is the all-time endurance champion
- Oh hey, let's stand around talking to each other!
- Heeeeeereeeee's Selim! I mean, Pride!
- How does Wrath and Pride just know how to do that right away?
- Yeah, because it totally makes sense that you can FORCE a human transmutation.
- Roy sees what you did there, Father... OH WAIT.
- All right, we get it, you're all angry and useless.
- Scar vs Bradley time!
- Al, give your body a break. Poor thing's been waiting around forever, it's not his fault he's all skin and bones.

Ah, next week a certain thing is put into motion!
amestris_star
http://randomc.net/2010/05/30/fullmetal-al...brotherhood-59/

Random Curiosity screenshots are up smile.gif
Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (penguintruth @ May 30 2010, 03:44 AM) *
A cliffhanger in FMA not paying off? HUGE SHOCK.

Hah, I like how the English dub is now in the part of the series where the cliffhangers really do pay off. Or at least, I think they do. Maybe you have a better understanding of narrative or whatever and can explain this better.
Claudius
QUOTE (Bag of Magic Food @ May 30 2010, 01:58 AM) *
QUOTE (penguintruth @ May 30 2010, 03:44 AM) *
A cliffhanger in FMA not paying off? HUGE SHOCK.

Hah, I like how the English dub is now in the part of the series where the cliffhangers really do pay off. Or at least, I think they do. Maybe you have a better understanding of narrative or whatever and can explain this better.
The Anime1 handled the cliffhangers better IMO. They had shock as well as change. OH NO! Al is turned into a bomb! ()He becomes a PS, which is probably worse). OH NO! Envy kills Edward! (Al restores him to life, at the cost of his existence, and Edward will always have the trauma of being dead). Arakawa seems to be pulling her punches, giving shock and then restoring things back to normal.

OH PLEASE NO GLARE OF DEATH IN THE ADAPTATION! Please give us some indication that Roy can think for himself and do the right decision without Riza ALWAYS holding his hand!
deet-tastic
Been waiting for this episode for forever. biggrin.gif
My thoughts were all over the place on it. One second I love bones, the next I hate them, the next I love them again.

-HUG biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif Good! Otherwise I would have flown to Japan and burned the production studio to the ground! Don't mess with a royai fan!
-Wrath, I love you. XD Stop being awesome! (don't really!)
-OoooohH!!! YEA! Selim! Pride makes his super awesome Entrance! Manga panels for the win!
-BAMF EYECATCH OF HAWKEYE AND DARIUS! OMG THAT IS AWESOME! AND SCAR GETS ONE TOO! WHOOHOO!!
-YESSSSSSSSSSS AND THERE'S THE SCREAM! YOU'RE GONE MUSTANG! HAHAHAHAH!!
- i hate you bones. Your stupid studio left out my all time favorite manga panel of Bradley. I hate you.
-Man.. Bones didn't play up the "OH CRAP" factor much, did they? I find their lack of emotion.. lacking. Oh well. I love the way they animated Mustangs Eyes though.
-They kept in Fathers "Truth is cruel" speech though! WHOO-HOO!
-NEW MUSIC WITH SCAR VS BRADLEY HECK YES! I LOVE YOU WRATH!! I LOVE YOU SCAR!!
-And Alphonse the selfless sweet-heart puts the needs of others before his own. Oh Al, you're such a sweet-heart!

I'm mad they left this out, the bottom one.
http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/102/010/
That's my favorite manga panel of Bradley. When I first read the chapter back in December, I actually stopped and saved it to my computer. It was screaming "BAD A" So I'm very angry with Bones.

The mustang thing was lacking emotion to me. It could be because I was watching raw and have no subs. But it just didn't feel as powerfull as the manga. It could also be this way because I knew what was coming.

Al's body was animated differently than how it was in 26. That's alright though. It's been months since then and his body is getting older. That could be the change.
I loved how trippy Al's voice was being used for two different people though. Haha! It was cool.

EDIT
Just remembered. They censored Mustang stabbing a candidate in the neck. Instead, he cut the guys leg. That made me mad too.
TheSentinel
QUOTE (deet-tastic @ May 30 2010, 11:13 AM) *
- i hate you bones. Your stupid studio left out my all time favorite manga panel of Bradley. I hate you.

I'm mad they left this out, the bottom one.
http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/102/010/
That's my favorite manga panel of Bradley. When I first read the chapter back in December, I actually stopped and saved it to my computer. It was screaming "BAD A" So I'm very angry with Bones.


They animated the scene from the front as opposed the the back (the way the manga did it). Can't wait for the SUB to get the dialogue. From the manga I always did like Wrath's 'humans not doing what I expect makes me angry' while smiling was a great line.

My own personal favorite Wrath panel is http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/30/19/
EveningAlchemist
Longer post, awesome episode. ohmy.gif

This episode oozed Royai! Although we all know about the hug and stuff, my favourite part of all that was the little squeeze Roy gave Riza when Bradley walked in.
Roy's scream when the transmutation was activated was pretty bone-chilling! Being forced to do alchemy doesn't sound too fun... Hawkeye's calls after him are nice too, and I bet she feels very helpless and that hurts her.
I felt Roy's terror when he turned to see the gate. When you're viewing this, you know what's coming, so you feel for Roy! The gate is not a place I'd like to vacation... I still felt the shock like in the manga, mostly due to the deep chanting music in the background. It was diluted because I knew what was coming, but seeing Roy's faded eyes made my heart lurch!

And I love that despite all Bradley's injuries, he still makes everyone tense. I really liked the creepy/intense music that was played when Pride showed himself. And is that new music I hear during the Scar/Bradley brawl? Sounds epic! biggrin.gif

Once again, you know something's wrong with Al when he gets animated all nice and shiny! New music here too? It's very beautiful and melancholy. I wanted to cry more in Al's gate scene then Mustang's! I loved how the rustle of Al's truth's hair added a new element of animation that couldn't be expressed in the manga. Did they not show Al's truth's scary face when he predicted doom? Oh well...
deet-tastic
QUOTE (TheSentinel @ May 30 2010, 09:46 AM) *
QUOTE (deet-tastic @ May 30 2010, 11:13 AM) *
- i hate you bones. Your stupid studio left out my all time favorite manga panel of Bradley. I hate you.

I'm mad they left this out, the bottom one.
http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/102/010/
That's my favorite manga panel of Bradley. When I first read the chapter back in December, I actually stopped and saved it to my computer. It was screaming "BAD A" So I'm very angry with Bones.
tongue.gif

They animated the scene from the front as opposed the the back (the way the manga did it). Can't wait for the SUB to get the dialogue. From the manga I always did like Wrath's 'humans not doing what I expect makes me angry' while smiling was a great line.

My own personal favorite Wrath panel is http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/30/19/


Nah, in the manga he has the swords above his head, but here they were in front of him. And I like that camera angle on his back, rather than his front. That's what made it as epic as it was to me.
His Name is Unknown
Wrath fan here:

Really, almost everything about FMA episode 59 is irrelevant to me: Roy's blindness...eh. Hawkeye drama...deus ex machina. Father....how many eyes does he have again?...

Start talking about Scar versus Wrath, though, and you have my undivided attention. To me, this showdown represents the clash of some of the strongest themes in FMA - the interplay of religion, spirituality, and atheism and their relationship to the notion of equivalent exchange.

The Ishvalan extermination, with all of its parallels to the Holocaust and persecution of the Jewish people during WWII and throughout history, works marvelously (well, for me anyway ^^) as a meta-narrative to bind the various character interactions and plot developments together and to create a comprehensive backdrop for the drama of the Promised Day. Indeed, the interplay of two conflicting visions - the refined 'abiding' of Scar's muted vengeance and the overwhelming fury of Wrath - is the personification of many core elements of the Fullmetal story.

The death of Winry's parents, the quest for immortality, the collision of spirituality and science, Hughe's death, the Elric's suffering, the conspiracy in the military...all of these issues come back to that horrific War in Ishval and Bradley's presidential order to annihilate the believers of Ishvala. Whenever I think of this final showdown, I'm struck by how well the spiritual aspect of FMA is handled. Again and again, Ed proclaims his agnosticism, maintaining that comfortable skeptic's distance, yet when the situation really gets desperate, many characters are willing, albeit reluctantly, to consider the existence of God. One of my all time favorite moments in the manga is Wrath's bloodcurdling assault on Scar's faith as he screams: "Surely the horrors of that bloody conflict sowed the seeds of doubt in your own mind. THERE IS NO GOD!" It is an emotion which any person who struggles with reconciling the horrors of this world with the notion of an all powerful God has experienced. And yet, it is in that very moment that the sun peeks out from behind the darkness of the eclipse, blinding Bradley and giving Scar his chance.

Despite the Elrics denouncing Scar's claim to be an agent of God's judgment as an excuse for petty revenge, the overarching narrative does seem to hint that Scar may, in fact, an instrument of change from a higher power. Through this 'bloody discharge' of the conflict in Ishval, we see the representation of one who accepts both the importance of spirituality and the powerful potential of science to do good. Destruction and creation, they are the laws of the fma universe and the foundation of this fight. And of course, it is only too appropriate that Ishvalans, upon whom Wrath propounded his merciless atheism, would be the ones to ultimately remove him from his throne. Really, I don't think Wrath would have it any other way....a battle to the death between two nameless warriors...I LIKE IT!

...as you can see, I have a vested interest in how this showdown is handled, and from the looks of things, this fight has the potential to be the best beat down in FMA2. The new music - a stunning, full bodied orchestral rendition of the main theme - sent a chill down my spine; the stage has been set for a truly monumental clash of wills and I can only pray that episode 60 and 61 do not disappoint.
deet-tastic
^everything you just said. biggrin.gif


Wrath was animated so fluidely in the short moments it showed him fighting Scar. I hope Bones makes it even better than the manga. And I'm so excited to see it all unfold.
His Name is Unknown
QUOTE (penguintruth @ May 30 2010, 04:44 AM) *
My initial thoughts:

- A cliffhanger in FMA not paying off? HUGE SHOCK.
- Gotta love the way that little glass container of Philosopher's Stone bounces around


You honestly don't see the sacrifice of Mustang's sight as a cliff-hanger paying off? If anything, this episode demonstrates to me that keeping true to your principles does not always ensure a happy ending. Sure, Mustang refused the transmutation, and for a moment it appeared that Hawkeye would be rescued with no consequence, but his nobility was not without consequence.

Much as Ed's conviction to not kill nearly cost him his life (and in fact, reduced his own lifespan), Mustang's conflict to maintain his pyramid scheme came back to haunt him. He was forced to do the transmutation against his will and as punishment was consigned to a life of darkness.

That's pretty severe; to me, this is not Arakawa 'pulling punches;' I mean, sure, she could have made the repercussions more severe (read, Hawkeye's death), but who's to say there will not be consequences even if Roy does succeed (as alluded to by Riza during her retelling of the Ishvalan war)? The cliff-hanger was left on Roy's decision to do human transmutation; the result was that he was forced to commit the act whether he decided to nor. That's pretty messed up, or as Ed put it, unfair, not to mention mentally traumatic for Mustang.

I'm not arguing against you 100% here - if you read my previous post you'll see I view Hawkeye's insta-rescue by Mei Chan as a bit of a deus ex machina (I mean, it makes sense in a way, but I feel it does cheapen the drama a bit):

Having said that, I think it's a bit unfair to say this cliff hanger didn't pay off. Just because a cliff hanger doesn't lead to even more angst or death doesn't mean it's a letdown. Take the Hohenheim soul tornado episode. That was a huge cliff-hanger, and the reversal not only made sense, it also gave context and depth to just how important Hohenheim's absence from Trisha and the boys really was. It was not just a noble fight against Father which motivated him, but a desire to save his wife and sons (and all of Armestris) from being consumed in an agony of whirling souls. Not only does this knowledge strengthen Hohenheim as a hero, but it also makes sense in light of his own trauma in Xerxes, and serves as vindication for his earlier naivete to predict and prevent the dwarf in the flasks diabolical schemes. Sure it's a narrative undo in certain respects, but it also serves as dramatic character development.

Take Claudius' opinion that anime1 handled cliff-hangers more effectively as a counter-point to my argument. In his own words: "They had shock as well as change." I would agree with this, only disputing the implication that Arakawa's twists lack change...they possess just as much change as, say, Al's bomb/philosopher's stone switch, just not on a physical level. Restraint of bloodlust does not equate to lack of change. The change is simply internalized, or to put it another way, the characters are developed.

Even with this distinction, some may view this kind of twist as expected and insufficient. I respect that, while still asserting that the real power of the manga over the anime (to me) derives from Arakawa's overall character development. Some things are cliche, but the author's ability - ultimately - to turn the expected into the unexpected while also illuminating character's internal conflicts and producing real character change is what makes FMA exceptional. Roy had to refuse, in a way, because it was essential for Bradley's character to have that moment when he was genuinely surprised that Mustang would not commit human transmutation for someone he loved. This shocked the homunculus, giving him new perspective, and even respect, for the 'foolish struggle' of the humans he opposed. That one moment where the Fuhrer looks up and actually smiles as he says: "When you humans don't do as expected, it really makes me mad," is a perfect representation of both his homunculus and human tendencies, and is itself and unexpected response. Thus, both characters are enriched (the change) while still maintaining the original shock value of the cliff hanger (Mustang does human transmutation, and loses his eyesight in the bargain). Indeed, the fact that someone could be 'judged' by the truth for an act he did not commit willingly is itself another plot point which is sure to factor into Ed's ultimate confrontation with the Truth and possibly in the explanation of what Father is and why he seeks to establish his own Law of the universe.

Looking forward to your response. It makes for a much richer discussion when people honestly voice their opinions and disagreements biggrin.gif

Oh, and about that philosopher's stone bouncing around - I always thought of it as a reference to The Temple of Doom gag where Indiana Jones is desperately trying to get his hands on the antidote for his poison as the nightclub erupts into fighting. Arakawa strikes me as the type who would enjoy Indy humor. laugh.gif
penguintruth
My point about it not paying off, much in the way we got a big array activation that led to just some people being teleported, is that the cliffhanger of the previous episode being that Roy seems to agree to do a human transmutation. And then in the beginning of this episode he goes, "LOL, actually no, I agreed NOT to. Sorry." And that's the payoff.

They might as well had him do that before the end of the last episode (which would work, since they dragged that scene out) and had the end of that episode be triumphant by having the gold-toothed doctor lifted up by whatshisface's goo. Instead we get, "LOL, just kidding, guys." It would be one thing if he agreed to it, then at the last minute struck out at the gold-toothed doctor as the chimera arrived, but we just get the payoff of the doctor's disappointment.

Now, as for the long-term payoff within the episode, fine, I see your point, but then there was no real purpose of making a big fuss out of that one action at the end of the previous episode. It confuses me as a viewer that I think I'm going to get this big punch payoff and then I get a more natural one. They shouldn't have set up the big punch to begin with if that's the case, because it seems cheap.

The cliffhanger device is a force that has to be met with equal force if it is to work.
His Name is Unknown
QUOTE (penguintruth @ May 30 2010, 06:16 PM) *
My point about it not paying off, much in the way we got a big array activation that led to just some people being teleported, is that the cliffhanger of the previous episode being that Roy seems to agree to do a human transmutation. And then in the beginning of this episode he goes, "LOL, actually no, I agreed NOT to. Sorry." And that's the payoff.


Ah, I see. A valid point - thank you for taking the time to clarify.

Considered in that light, I would have to agree with you about the emotional 'cheapness' of the reversal; my impression of the cliffhanger was already muted by a knowledge of what was already happening, but considered from the perspective of a first time viewer, this decision to begin a new episode with a 'oh wait, just kidding' does seem a bit...off.

Actually, now that I am recalling more clearly, the concurrent manga chapters did not even end on Mustang's affirmative:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/100/46/

...making this decision seem all the more arbitrary and manipulative. Having said that, I still thought it was a pretty effective cliffhanger from the perspective of not knowing what was going to happen to Hawkeye, but I will concede that 'shock value' would have been better served by leaving Mustang's decision unresolved until the next episode. Then, there would have been no dramatic undercutting or disrespect of the viewer's intelligence when he made his decision the following episode.

Your bringing this up has really piqued my curiosity as to just how many other 'minor' changes theis anime has made to the manga. It's been quite some time since I read over the original work; maybe it's time for a little compare and contrast...

...or maybe it would only get me upset rolleyes.gif
deet-tastic
^ I'm about to start re-reading the whole manga in prep for the final chapter. I might find some things that brotherhood didn't do/did wrong that will tick me off/make me upset biggrin.gif You should join me!!
cherry-chan. :D
Overall, I'd say this was a great episode. I was pretty much pleased with it as a whole, and I don't really have much complaints. Actually, I'm so happy with it that I probably wouldn't even bother finding something to complain about! Haha! laugh.gif

- Well. It seems Royai fans are pretty much happy now. Well, I am! XD The hug! <3 It might just be me, but I sort of think the hug has more feeling here than it does in the manga. Or maybe that's just because it's animated, lol. But anyway, I was very happy with it.
- I felt sorry for Mei a bit, haha. I mean, the Philosopher's Stone! So near, and yet it's always so out of reach. Poor Mei Chan.
- I cringed when Roy was pinned down by Wrath and Pride. It's surely painful. o___o Oh, it's good that they didn't put an insane amount of blood oozing from Roy's hands. That would've been crazy. XD (Since we've been seeing so much blood lately, lol.)
- Although I technically hate them because they're the bad guys... Pride and Wrath are just so awesome! :3
- The eyecatch was cool! <3
- I love Riza's VA. XD Especially when she was shouting "Taisa!" over and over when Roy was in the transmutation. ohmy.gif
- How can something so evil be so cute?! Seliiiiim. Er, Pride. XD
- And Roy's gate! The terror on his face as he turns around to face the gate... it's pretty traumatic, and the expression was good!
- Scar VS Wrath! Another awesome part of this episode. I just love Wrath's moves. So fast and... gah. Just so awesome. And to think he's what? 60 years old? XDDDD (I suddenly remember Fu. ;____;)
- Al's gate scene. Al is so selfless! Alphonse-samaaaaa~ <3 T____T That's why I really love Al. XD Always thinking of others.

Really great episode. Maaan. Just four episodes left. T____T
Vagrant
Art and animation looked awesome to me. Except for Al's body's face, which didn't look right. The direction seemed iffy. Good use of music though.

Going easy on the Fuhrer candidates = bad change. (Explains Roy's stupid boxing in a previous ep)

Translation was poor. Missed the point on a few things. I presume it's the translation and that the anime hasn't just butchered the writing.
deet-tastic
^probably poor translation. My friend read one where it said "you lost your eyes!!" Making it seem like Mustang literally lost the actual eye balls. She didn't give me a web address. I wish I had it, I'd take a screenshot of it for you all.
Chiyo
It has been a while since I voiced my thoughts on an episode, but this one captured me so I will.

For me the greatest thing about this episode was how it represented it's characters and how they have developed. To narrow it down specifically;

1. That Bradley has weakness. Even when hurt he has been represented as one who cannot be brought down. Here, the bleeding and breathlessness show his human side. YET he is still to be "admired" as a supreme being.

2. Roy has grown up, though his devotion is still in place. As he puts it, he has people to guide him correctly, and he accepts their guidance instead of blindly pressing on (oh ho can we get an irony?).

3. Al. We all knew he was a selfless soul, but this really establishes how everyone else will always come first Which is why he gives himself up to help his brother later on. The same for Mei, she knows what is more important

Other than that, the animation was wonderful in this episode and the pace was good. The anti-climax wasn't a let down I suppose on the basis I knew it was coming and the episode was good enough to make up for it. I think Ed is also beginning to look right for the upcoming events i.e the child has gone.
Claudius
QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ May 30 2010, 01:33 PM) *
Take Claudius' opinion that anime1 handled cliff-hangers more effectively as a counter-point to my argument. In his own words: "They had shock as well as change." I would agree with this, only disputing the implication that Arakawa's twists lack change...they possess just as much change as, say, Al's bomb/philosopher's stone switch, just not on a physical level. Restraint of bloodlust does not equate to lack of change. The change is simply internalized, or to put it another way, the characters are developed.

Actually, I meant it your way.
We may be disagreement, but one of the major points in FMA, IMO, is that the greatest scars are not the ones you bear on your body. They are the ones you carry in your mind/heart/soul.
Violent injury! Losing your eyesight! Getting crippled! Losing a limb! Getting impaled or shot! Oh well.
Taking a life, transmuting somebody, chucking away your ideals, feeling responsible for death, being dead...Somebody kill me please! I'm on my knees, pretty pretty please! Kill me! I wanna die! Put a bullet in my he-ee-ea-ea-ead!
Al would rather wish he stay in his armoured body than have his search bring more death. Roy and Riza got out of Ishval physically in one piece but are so traumatized by their experiences they wish punishment. Jean Havoc loses the use of his legs (Fat chance on knowing the love of a woman!) and yet rather then becoming bitter, he enthusiastically wants to help Roy more than ever! So to these characters, physical injury is nothing to emotional injury.
And both my Anime1 examples attest to that. These cliffhangers were resolved with lucky breaks. But what keeps these lucky breaks from becoming dues ex machinas is that these escapes come with a price that marks the characters' souls.
Al becoming a PS means that he survived only through the sacrifice of a thousand souls. That is a burden Al cannot bear (better he exploded instead) which gives him this 'death wish' mentality that screws Dante's plans. As for Ed, he was dead for a minute, no two ways about that. That's a traumatic feeling in many ways (Buffy the Vampire Slayer used this plot point rather effectively), one not easily to be forgotten or overcome (I could argue that this experience, plus the experiences of killing his Earth-Prime self to get back & the mental blow-out of going through the Gate three times meant that Ed began his exile freakin' bonkers!). You could add Anime1Roy's situation with Bradley to this. He's gonna die, but Selim comes to the rescue...and Selim dies because of it. Not quite the lucky break Roy wanted (especially since it allows him to fulfill the vengeance for Hughes' death that his manga counterpart avoided thanks to the lucky break of Riza's death threat and Envy's suicide). Better Roy lost both eyes and became crippled than ruin his life and this child's.
ShadowCat17
btw, never, ever watch the Guguru subs. The reason they're always out first is because they're automatic translations, so it's no better than if you were to plug the japanese script into google translate.

Although the cliffhanger did not pay off really, the episode as a whole did not suffer. I've always liked the ominous warning that body!Al says after Al decides to go back. I think they handled that scene very well.

Is it just me or do they *always* seem to upscale the art/animation whenever Wrath has a scene? If only they would spend a little more time making sure Roy doesn't look so wonky most of the time
FailToImpress
QUOTE (ShadowCat17 @ May 31 2010, 07:45 PM) *
Is it just me or do they *always* seem to upscale the art/animation whenever Wrath has a scene? If only they would spend a little more time making sure Roy doesn't look so wonky most of the time


This. I also think that Roy has looked really young in the past 2 episodes...

Overall I enjoyed the episode.
-I wish that they spent a tiny bit more time on Roy at the gate etc, to me it seemed more dramatic in the manga.
-I felt for him when he fell over, I'm glad they kept that bit from the manga. It breaks my heart!
-Enjoyed the music
-Roy and Riza's hug was done well, very cute indeed.
-Random eyecatch of Darius and Riza...
-Oh Al, you're so selfless it hurts sometimes... if we're talking equivalent exchange, you're due some pretty big rewards soon. ph34r.gif *is hoping*
Hyperthia
I loved this episode so much biggrin.gif
The HUG! Like... AWWW! *squees*
And the looks Roy gave Riza were so... AWWW! ^o^

'Course I loved the episode for other reasons, but that was the highlight for me. I can't believe how close to the end we are. It still feels like chapter 102 only just came out! So fast.
deet-tastic
^ 102 pretty much DID just come out biggrin.gif That's what's so fun about these later episodes. The chapters they're based on are still pretty new. Whereas the first episodes were chapters from WAY back almost 9 years ago.
TheSentinel
QUOTE (ShadowCat17 @ May 31 2010, 02:45 PM) *
Is it just me or do they *always* seem to upscale the art/animation whenever Wrath has a scene? If only they would spend a little more time making sure Roy doesn't look so wonky most of the time


You're right FMA takes a level in animation quality AND a level in badass anytime Wrath is around.

As for the the whole "suspense" element... I don't really pay to much attention to that since I follow the manga and no most of what is about to happen. Though, I have noticed that if you ignore the previews the suspense quality ups considerably.
Vlyse
Err plothole? Or maybe Scar just hasn't figured out what those swords are made of yet?

Kaori Ayanami
Eclipse just released this episode. At last. T^T
You're right, that looks contest is just off XD. But, otherwise, it was a good episode. It did feel a little rushed, though (it had to be, of course, but the pacing could have been better. Ohhh well).

With all that blood (that should have been cut up, since it's not the same in black than in red), they could have left Roy's stabbing at the neck of the Fuhrer-wannabe, or at least something like that. He is a soldier, the very Hero of Ishval at that, for Arakawa's sake.

The only thing that was quite better this time was Hawkeye's worry when Roy was sucked into the gate. She HAD to be so.
And no OOC in Royai. That I liked too. smile.gif
Trakonda
I've must been watching one too many Youtube Poops lately. When Scar vs. Wrath scene begun and their faces flashed there, I was just WAITING for one of them to make a funny face or something. Perfect mood killer XD

Anyway, another great episode. Loved the music and animation again. biggrin.gif

(And I actually aww'ed at the Roy/Riza hug, even though I've never really shipped them. But darn it! Guess there was this hidden Royai fan in me, waiting to get out all this time. tongue.gif )
sidekick.kep37
QUOTE (ShadowCat17 @ May 31 2010, 01:45 PM) *
Is it just me or do they *always* seem to upscale the art/animation whenever Wrath has a scene? If only they would spend a little more time making sure Roy doesn't look so wonky most of the time


TRUE. Wrath demands high quality animation or he'll cut you. His battles are always fast paced and intense, so I can see why they would up the animation; otherwise, it just look cheap, and no one ever wants a cheaply animated battle scene- especially one with Wrath.

I loved this ep. I thought it was a fun one to watch. Thoughts:

-Oh, this must be the "cliffhanger without meaning" we're all talking about. I agree. Though I did kinda see it coming since before the chapter came out.
-Run Roy!!! Run! Save her! Oh, he totally blew that guy up that was in his way. If a guy blew someone up just to get to me, I'd be in, like, insta-love, or something.
-Although, I believe everyone else has already established how "Awwww" the hug was, I just have to say this: <3 THE HUGGGG!!!! <3 And the dialog exchanged between them was sweet. wink.gif
-May, I started liking your character because of this scene where you saved Riza over getting the PS. I just thought you should know that.
-What? More subtle Royai? Thanks, Wrath, for getting to Roy tighten his grip on Riza. tongue.gif
-OHSHI- Wrath totally just used Roy as a skateboard there. And his hands must've HURT. Agh!
-Bye, Roy. :'(
-Scar v. Wrath is looking mighty intense in spite of the fact that it's just the beginning of their battle and there was a long stare-off between the two, not that it's bad or anything. I'm really looking forward to this.
-Roy being blind... It was alright. It could've been better, it could've been worse. I don't know how it could've improved, but I just know there was something missing or something keeping that scene from being amazing.
-Al's scene: I wanted to feel more emotion, like I was desperately trying to find it, but it didn't give me the shivers like it did in the manga, even though it was well played. :/

Like I said, fun episode to watch. I enjoyed it. A lot sure did happen in this episode. o_o
zonkiethegreat
^^
YES! I agree...Roy's sudden blindness reveal could have been a pinch more dramatic. I think the "opening" theme to the episodes (the part where Roy is clearly going blind and being sucked down a tunnel) is MORE dramatic, then the reveal.

All in all Great episode. But what is up with the animation on Roy??? His face kept changing.

Bag of Magic Food
"Clearly going blind" in the opening? I took that part as simply Roy getting a Blue Screen of Death on his face.
Aazadan
I liked the shot of Mustangs gate, much clearer than in the manga.
Flamez_Freak
pretty good episode....with great animation and decent artwork......next episode looks awesome....cant wait for it.....
i rate this episode a 9/10
allykatty1
QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ May 30 2010, 05:36 PM) *
QUOTE (penguintruth @ May 30 2010, 06:16 PM) *
My point about it not paying off, much in the way we got a big array activation that led to just some people being teleported, is that the cliffhanger of the previous episode being that Roy seems to agree to do a human transmutation. And then in the beginning of this episode he goes, "LOL, actually no, I agreed NOT to. Sorry." And that's the payoff.


Actually, now that I am recalling more clearly, the concurrent manga chapters did not even end on Mustang's affirmative:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/100/46/

...making this decision seem all the more arbitrary and manipulative. Having said that, I still thought it was a pretty effective cliffhanger from the perspective of not knowing what was going to happen to Hawkeye, but I will concede that 'shock value' would have been better served by leaving Mustang's decision unresolved until the next episode. Then, there would have been no dramatic undercutting or disrespect of the viewer's intelligence when he made his decision the following episode.

Your bringing this up has really piqued my curiosity as to just how many other 'minor' changes theis anime has made to the manga. It's been quite some time since I read over the original work; maybe it's time for a little compare and contrast...

...or maybe it would only get me upset rolleyes.gif


Why does everyone think Mustang agreed to do human transmutation? O_o What he said at the end of the episode was, "Wakatta," which means "I understand" or "I get it." That's exactly what he said in the manga too. The cliffhanger wasn't that he agreed to do it and then went "just kidding" at the beginning of the next episode. The cliffhanger was supposed to leave us wondering whether or not he WOULD agree to do it. I guess you could argue that it made it seem like a confirmation, but I always thought that line was meant to be ambiguous.

That said, I did see that Eclipse's fansub mistranslated it as "I will." Is that partly where the misunderstanding is coming from? o_O

Claudius - Not to go off topic, but I never thought Selim died in Anime1. Didn't he just get semi-strangled/beat up? wink.gif They never really confirmed his life or death either way, but the fact that Mustang carried him out of the mansion made it seem to me like Selim was just unconscious.
Broken Chouchou
Decent episode. While I thought some parts were great, such as Al at the gate and his decision to return, and the short Bradley vs Scar sequence (except for the stare out contest, wtf? Lame. At least the way it was executed.), I felt that other parts were a bit lacking, in impact and emotion. Mainly thinking about the whole Roy thing, both the transmutation and the consequences "revealed". Wasn't really as dramatic as I would like.
I loved Truth's little snicker though, and all the blood in this episode. Just look at that red waterfall coming from up above from Jerso! (Almost dissapointing how he only appears to have a few small cuts after that..) And I liked Goldie getting stabbed by the shadows, he almost sounded like he enjoyed it, on some level, maintaining his creepy manners.

The new music was nice, and animation was pretty good too. (Al's armour when he's lying on the floor during Father's speech!!)

Looking forward to the next one.
_Jelly
Speaking of Scar and Wrath's stare off...

HAHAHA I started to giggle in the middle of it since it went on forever and was so corny.

Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Getting a bit closer now. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Even closer. Scar. Wra--asoijiosjdaisojAAARRGGG-smash-

And also I agree with the scenes that lack in emotion... whether it was the background music or the lines or the angles they took these scenes from it just didn't hit all that hard. Though every time I say that, I get a feeling it's because I already know what's going to happen from reading the manga. =\ BUT Wrath tackling Roy was cool and was animated very well. It was hard to comprehend how exactly that went in the manga, with Roy's blast launching Wrath further and faster toward him. The action was very smooth too.

QUOTE (allykatty1 @ Jun 1 2010, 08:21 PM) *
Why does everyone think Mustang agreed to do human transmutation? O_o What he said at the end of the episode was, "Wakatta," which means "I understand" or "I get it." That's exactly what he said in the manga too. The cliffhanger wasn't that he agreed to do it and then went "just kidding" at the beginning of the next episode. The cliffhanger was supposed to leave us wondering whether or not he WOULD agree to do it. I guess you could argue that it made it seem like a confirmation, but I always thought that line was meant to be ambiguous.


I only watched the RAW of that episode and me with little knowledge of the Japanese language understood that much. He didn't say "Okay" he merely said he understood. Who he understood, he didn't say and that along with the preview would have given non-readers of the manga something to worry about. I mean, the preview showed him at the gate, or at least in a white space looking pretty freaked out. Watchers would assume he did human transmutation willingly. Surprise, guys, he was just raped and forced into it, that's all.
Broken Chouchou
I don't think the lack of emotion comes from knowing what's going to happen. All shock-value is gone, of course, but I don't really think the emotional weight is all that affected by it, for me at least. It might take away a little bit, but if a scene is done with heart, it will make you feel nonetheless. Some episodes have completely blown me away, and captured me emotionally, despite me knowing about the events beforehand.

I think it's more about execution, direction etc. And yeah, music. Sucker for melodramatic music right here tongue.gif That's also one of Brotherhood's problems at times - poor use of music. Be it repating old tracks over and over, or just placement or choice of a certain piece that doesn't feel entirely right.

QUOTE (_Jelly @ Jun 1 2010, 02:23 PM) *
Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Getting a bit closer now. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Even closer. Scar. Wra--asoijiosjdaisojAAARRGGG-smash-


Oh, and yes. Exactly.
Claudius
QUOTE (allykatty1 @ Jun 1 2010, 02:21 AM) *
Claudius - Not to go off topic, but I never thought Selim died in Anime1. Didn't he just get semi-strangled/beat up? wink.gif They never really confirmed his life or death either way, but the fact that Mustang carried him out of the mansion made it seem to me like Selim was just unconscious.
There is, I think, a Snap! of Selim's neck. The kid is dead. Mustang took the body out so Selim could be given a decent burial instead of being burned with the rest of the trash...
This was one of the episodes that Cartoon Network gave a 'viewer discretion is advised', for this scene.
deet-tastic
That's what I've been trying to understand. Why did fan subbers translate "wakatta" as "I'll do it"
It means basically "I understand" Wakarimasen=I don't know, Wakaranai= I dunno. Even if someone with zero japanese language knowledge were to read this post, they'd see where wakatta relates to wakarimasen/wakaranai

Anyone know how FUNimation subbed it on their site? I'm interested to know now.
Forsaken Love
I LOVED this episode. So much royai! <3 *_* loved it, when readin this episodes events in the manga, i remembered i was so stressed! XD I got really upset, this time around I felt more able to enjoy it, Al you're so selfless <3
Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (deet-tastic @ Jun 1 2010, 12:31 PM) *
Anyone know how FUNimation subbed it on their site? I'm interested to know now.

He says "All right." So the dub will probably say the same or similar. I don't have much faith in FUNimation keeping the same amount of ambiguity though, considering they changed "There's something I've been meaning to ask you" into "There's something I've been meaning to tell you..." And what are they going to do about the ending of episode 24? "Ah, I get it, Hughes. When you said that 'It's an emergency,' you meant that, uh, er... it's the emergency I'm in now?"
Flamez_Freak
QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Jun 1 2010, 07:12 PM) *
I don't think the lack of emotion comes from knowing what's going to happen. All shock-value is gone, of course, but I don't really think the emotional weight is all that affected by it, for me at least. It might take away a little bit, but if a scene is done with heart, it will make you feel nonetheless. Some episodes have completely blown me away, and captured me emotionally, despite me knowing about the events beforehand.

I think it's more about execution, direction etc. And yeah, music. Sucker for melodramatic music right here tongue.gif That's also one of Brotherhood's problems at times - poor use of music. Be it repating old tracks over and over, or just placement or choice of a certain piece that doesn't feel entirely right.

QUOTE (_Jelly @ Jun 1 2010, 02:23 PM) *
Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Getting a bit closer now. Scar. Wrath. Scar. Wrath. Even closer. Scar. Wra--asoijiosjdaisojAAARRGGG-smash-


Oh, and yes. Exactly.


this . . And the fact that the director of this show is mediocre . He is good at best , and can't even be compared to seiji mizushima . I know seiji has major problems wit female characters and has the tendency to screw it all up , but if its about hard core direction , not many can match up to his standards . I wonder why bones went for someone like irie to begin wit .
That wrath scar , wrath scar , wrath scar shot was a bit , over the top , but as someone said said earlier , the somersault move from bradley when he confronts mustang was so cool , it made me jump out of my seat . . It was better than how it was done in the manga .
deet-tastic
^I rarely say anything outload when watching stuff, but I did a "HECK YESSS!!" when Bradley pinned Mustang.
allykatty1
QUOTE (Claudius @ Jun 1 2010, 08:05 AM) *
QUOTE (allykatty1 @ Jun 1 2010, 02:21 AM) *
There is, I think, a Snap! of Selim's neck. The kid is dead. Mustang took the body out so Selim could be given a decent burial instead of being burned with the rest of the trash...
This was one of the episodes that Cartoon Network gave a 'viewer discretion is advised', for this scene.

Ooh, really? I'll have to go back and rewatch that then. *morbid*

Back on topic, I also have never really been a Royai shipper, but this episode may have converted me slightly. tongue.gif Despite having read the manga, something about seeing the hug animated clicked for me. I "aawed". happy.gif
Kasumisty
I liked this episode.

While quality may be not top-notch yet, it had some really good scenes.

I especially liked the tender moments between Roy and Riza and Alphonse at the Gate - the music was great.
Radadinator
Man, this episode was just like a series of Crowning Moments of Awesome exploding in your face. Not to mention the Tear Jerkers. (Damn you Tv tropes for being so fun to procrastinate on.)

Pride's entrance was freaking awesome. I don't care if he's the spawn of Satan, he and Wrath make the weirdest and most amazing duo ever. I'm slightly disappointed there wasn't some Battle Royale music playing during his slow-mo arrival, but whatever.

Roy's scream was probably the best bit of acting the VA's ever given the character.

And my favorite scene's Al. Just...Al. Al is everybody's Jesus. He never stops giving and sacrificing. Seriously, when does he ever get a break?


Fawfulhasfury
For people criticizing the Scar Vs. Wrath stare-off, you probably haven't seen many spaghetti westerns. In those, it's common for rivals to have a long closeup of their emotions before the showdown starts, usually set to epic music. I thought it was very well done and I was really happy to see this technique used here, especially for this battle. They used it a bit in the Envy vs. Mustang fight before Envy was reduced to his true form, and I liked it there too.
penguintruth
QUOTE (Claudius @ Jun 1 2010, 12:05 PM) *
QUOTE (allykatty1 @ Jun 1 2010, 02:21 AM) *
Claudius - Not to go off topic, but I never thought Selim died in Anime1. Didn't he just get semi-strangled/beat up? wink.gif They never really confirmed his life or death either way, but the fact that Mustang carried him out of the mansion made it seem to me like Selim was just unconscious.
There is, I think, a Snap! of Selim's neck. The kid is dead. Mustang took the body out so Selim could be given a decent burial instead of being burned with the rest of the trash...
This was one of the episodes that Cartoon Network gave a 'viewer discretion is advised', for this scene.


For a while, I assumed Selim survived, because I didn't think Mustang would waste what little strength he had carrying a dead body out of a flaming house.

A person can survive having their neck broken, too.

But given the atmosphere of that scene, yeah, the more I watch it, the more I believe he died.

Back to this episode, though, watching it again, it's a lot better than when I watched it streaming live. That scene with Al and his body was so perfect and moving.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.