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Chiyo
Talk-back/content discussion for English dubbed episode on Adult Swim starts on page 5. smile.gif


Please post the discussions on the content of episode 54 here.
This thread is declared as a Spoiler zone for the content of the first 54 episodes.

Please don't ask for links on where to watch this episode, raw or subbed. Discussions on 'where to watch' belong in Where/How to Watch FMA Series 2. Don't post screencaps unless highlighting something important about the content of the episode. Just like on in most area's of the board, avoid one line posts, spam of any kind or conversations between two members.

Screenshots: see Omni's post.

Summary: Riza tricks a Roy-disguised Envy into giving himself away, and fires at him repeatedly. He manages to gain the advantage over her, but Roy arrives and continues attacking him viciously with his flames. Envy's body begins to decompose as his embryonic form tries to escape, but is trapped under Roy's foot. Riza points her gun at the real Roy, however, refusing to let him surrender to his rage in revenge. Edward and Scar arrive, and Ed takes posession of Envy, with Roy threatening him. Ed, Scar, and Riza talk him down from his madness, which surprises Envy. Envy tries to rile them up against each other, but is unable to. Edward suggests that Envy is jealous of humans, of how they help each other and endure crises. Outraged and humiliated, Envy commits suicide. Meanwhile, the Armstrong siblings continue to fight Sloth, with Alex tricking Sloth into slamming his arm back into place, and then plummeling him repeatedly and using his alchemy. The Briggs troops attack the front gate, leading the commander in charge to order firing at the unevacuated areas, but before he can complete the command, Buccaneer arrives to stop him, as does Falman, and Izumi Curtis. Deep underground, Hohenheim confronts Father, formerly the Dwarf in the Flask.
- © Penguintruth, used with permission

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Michiyo-
- We waited so long for the ďBurn my backĒ scene. smile.gif Love it.
- Riza is so cool. Too bad she was joking.
- Wow, Roy is really angry. Flames after flames.
- More Ishbal flashbacks with Hughes.
- I love this conversation. Great animation, excellent voice acting.
- Envy is envious. And his voice is still cute.
- Bye-bye Envy. I wonít miss you.
- And now back to the Armstrong vs Sloth.
- Alex has a time to show how awesome he is.
- Izumi!
- Wow, they changed the ending. Itís time for Hohenheim vs Father.

Absolutely loved this episode. Off to Sakuracon now, but this episode totally made my day, Iíll be in Royai fangirl mode all day. biggrin.gif
penguintruth
My initial thoughts:

- Oh look, a scene we should have seen tens of episodes ago. Thanks, Bones. It's exactly too late for me to give a damn about it.
- Jeez, Envy, stop being such a little weakling! This is like watching a crippled man fight a sabertooth tiger.
- Oh Scar, you're trying to be a relevant character again! How adorable.
- No, sorry, I'm not going to get choked up remembering a character from that long ago in the story, who was barely in it. Nice music, though.
- I love Envy's last-ditch trolling attempts. Envy would love the internet.
- STOP DRAGGING THIS SCENE OUT. JEEZ. They say that the FIRST series was melodramatic.
- "Bye bye, Edward Elric."
- TALES OF THE MASTER, DO WANT!!!
- Oh, look, we return to a homunculi battle that ISN'T utterly retarded. Except for the stupid homunculi dolls.
- Looks like this episode isn't a total loss.This music is perfect for Alex, by the way.
- Everyone's favorite housewife! biggrin.gif
- Oh, hey, it's Hohenheim! Jeez, he's been walking for a long time.

I'm not sure what I'll end up rating this episode. I have mixed feelings.
black~hayate
Wahahahahaha! That was awesome! The wait was worth it! I mean, we waited a whole year to see this chapter animated!

-It would be nice if they would blend the "Rain" song into the Ishval scene.
-The piano music was kinda tragic. It could have been better, still...
-They showed... omg they showed what??? That was not included in the manga! And I mean the "show you my back" scene! I mean... they showed Riza doing what??? I'm still positively shocked biggrin.gif.
-Oh... the gestics were awesome in this episode. So many different faces. Riza's grin, Roy's glare (deathglare), ah and Envy... I love the little green worm.
-That glare between still human-like Envy and Mustang... it seemed so awfully long to me.
-The little Envy under Roy's shoe... I felt so sorry for him ;___; He cried so pitfully...
-Envy-worm's voice actor is so awesome. Who is it, anyways? Still the same guy (or better said, girl?) or someone else?
-Roy screaming while producing flames... come on pal, it's not like snipping fingers is so hard that you scream around biggrin.gif
-But hey, the emotions were awesome. I mean, the manga chapter was awesome. But then seeing it, it was like feeling it by yourself.
-Also when Roy burned Envy or when Envy hit Riza, it all seemed so painfull, I even hissed.

What was the second eye catch? I missed it.

-Armstrong was great! And hey, we saw his mouth! Even twice! One time he showed only his teeth, another time he actually opened his mouth while screaming.
-Oh and the orange-pink sparkles <3!

I laughed at the end. "See you next time" with Envy's picture on it... but guys! We definetely won't see Envy next time biggrin.gif

Oh I loved this episode. And I watched it with some bad quality at Keyhole. It will be pretty awesome to watch it tomorrow in HD with English subs.
shanryelric
ok. first of all, I almost cry because of the crackness of keyhole. thanks to the super slow internet connection sad.gif(
I did'nt see the burn my back scene, nor when riza opened her clothes. damn it all. -,-

- the burn back scene, riza opened her clothes, and I am not able to see it??? WOW
- Roy always calls riza by her name when they're alone. yeah.
- angry roy is angry, and he looks so sexyyy biggrin.gif
- Ishbal flashbacks and Hughes.
- seems ike a Great animation and excellent voice acting.
- Envy is cute with that voce smile.gif
- 'Bye-bye edward' -,-
- Armstrong vs Sloth...
- Izumi! IZUMIIIIIIII
- they shanged the ending? oh, HohoVSFather? cool biggrin.gif

really, ANOTHER FAVE EPISODE!! even though I cannot see almost all of it ; A ;
Kaori Ayanami
Holy smokes! I saw this episode subbed! Yes, you read it right!
...in Japanese, I'm afraid XDDD
Still, it was awesome. Being the like-better-written-Japanese-than-spoken-Japanese-weirdo that I am, it's a great thing I can rely on Japanese subs besides the voice acting. I love KeyHole.

Anyway...
-I was late, so I could only watch the episode from Envy's rant on. It was much better than I expected. Even better than the manga, and I don't say it often.
-This time I could get to feel Envy's painful emotion, not only the despair. Maybe it was the tears, seeing them moving kind of got me. Besides Envy's wonderful voice actress, of course.
-Olivier's fake tears look even more epic in red.
-Dammit Sloth, you're in for suffering when picking on Armstrong. What a "revival", for God's sake.
-I loved that while Armstrong was returning to his glorious self and those morons from Central were hanging down to the floor, Olivier just went on slashing zombies as if she did that for workout in Briggs.
-Initially I thought the ending video was kind of lame, but looks like it won't matter a lot since only the song it's been used, at least now... He he he.

Thrilling. More than usual. Must be the online thingie. XD

By the way, did you notice the amount of otaku-ish commercials? Even Naruto was there o_0. And, also, Tales of the Master T^T. I want the "if FMA was a romantic comedy", too! It's part of the same story, after all. biggrin.gif
SneakyRuler
- Ishbal, at last. A few more good flashbacks like this and episode 30 is forgotten.
- the sheer fear in Envy's eyes, I felt so sorry for him
- excelent. maybe we would do withoout the flashbacks but... both Mustang and Envy. Mustang's anger and rage towards Envy, the desire to kill him and then the upcoming conflict whether to satisfy his revenge or choose to live without.
what might have felt a little off in manga was 100% here. I almost cried for Envy and that's a lot to say, it didn't even occure to me in manga. Both Mustang's and Envy's VA were amazing, even Ed's compassion for Envy. poor little bastard, you will be missed once I'm sure you're dead you don't seem too bad anymore...
- why do they continue to show us Izumi's training? it's like showing us a candy they do not intend to give us
- Armstrong team to end this
- and here comes THE ALCHEMIST
- ending song to good use, loved how Father was shown through the flask

Loved this episode so much, it made manga scenes even better. Next time: more homunculus beating and more Father and Izumi

QUOTE
And, also, Tales of the Master T^T. I want the "if FMA was a romantic comedy", too! It's part of the same story, after all. biggrin.gif

I wanna se that! "Miss, you dropped a bear!" "Oh dear, clumsy me! Thank you!"

Omni
Episode 54 Screencaps and Impressions

QUOTE (black~hayate @ Apr 25 2010, 04:38 AM) *
What was the second eye catch? I missed it.


amestris_star
Such a beautiful episode <3
All the Roy-Riza interaction <3
The beautiful animation and music <3

So lovely!
Claudius
So they added Hughes to this scene? Chapter 95 generally forgot about the guy, except for Roy's mental image of the picture. However, the 'Burn my back' sequence convinces me that this adaptation emphasizes the 'Riza stops Roy' point even more.
...
Okay, I may be burned or shot for saying this, but shouldn't the resolution be about Hughes instead of Royai? Since Hughes' memory is what drove Roy to this point, wouldn't it make more sense if it's Hughes' memory that stops him? Like have Roy ready to kill, thinking about how life has gotten a little darker since Hughes left, remembering how much of a great friend he was, and then realizing that Hughes the great friend would never have condoned this act of revenge (Hey, best friends don't tell you to steal or take drugs, so scratch 'killing someone' off the list too! Besides, if your girlfriend is protesting the act, I doubt your BF would think differently). Instead (in the manga), its Royai that's the solution, with Hughes taking a backseat. No mention from Edward or Riza as in 'Hughes wouldn't want this' or 'Don't ruin Hughes' memory, Roy!" (In fact, its interesting that whenever Roy has a Hughes moment, Riza or her grandfather suddenly appear. Can't stand your man thinking about anyone else but yourself, Riza?) Has this changed in Brotherhood?
Having Hughes be Roy's motivator would have solved another problematic point. Please bear with me a situation in Legion of Super-Heroes#297-298 by Paul Levitz (1983):
Cosmic Boy's family are injured by a terrorist firebomb. CB goes after the terrorists to torture them with his magnetic powers (manipulating the iron fibers in their blood). His girlfriend Night Girl knocks him out. Sound familiar?
Anyway, shortly after, the more calmer Cosmic Boy gets the news that his mother died of her injuries. CB is heartbroken. Night Girl tries to be comforting: "Is there anything I can do?"
"Yes. Forgive me." He magnetically throws her against a wall, knocking her out. Then he resumes his wish for revenge. Some of his Legionnaire buddies (Ultra Boy, Chameleon Lad, Element Lad, Sun Boy) follow CB as he corners the terrorists again. But they do nothing. They have to have faith that Cosmic Boy can stop this by himself, with no one holding his hand (I'm guessing they'll intercede at the very last minute). Indeed, Cosmic Boy gets ready to kill, hearing the terrorists' "Stop!" and then he thinks of his mother saying the same thing. He stops, horrified at what he was about to do.
This chapter brings up a major character flaw of Roy. In emotional moments he has to be supervised into making the right decision, else alone he will do the wrong thing. In this battle, what if Riza was unconscious and Ed and Scar got lost in the caverns? Then Roy would have killed Envy. If Spider-Man (who went after the Green Goblin for killing Gwen Stacy) and Cosmic Boy can choose mercy over revenge on their own and without help, then why can't Roy? Having Riza stop him only delays the problem. One of these days, this will happen to Roy again, and it might happen when he's alone (or like Cosmic Boy, he'll ensure his solitude by keeping others from interfering). Thus, I'm not going to bet the farm Roy will do the right thing.
And can someone please explain Envy's decision? When did the story ever hint to his jealousy of humans? Not to mention his suicide after all that "I don't wanna die!" whining? Whatever you may think of Anime1Envy, at least his series hinted to his issues early (Lab 5), and his fate was a logical end to that characterization (It started with being screwed by Daddy. It ends with getting screwed by Daddy). Here, it's "After 80 chapters of telling you guys that you are ants, the truth is I really envy you! Oh, and even though I screamed my cowardice to the top of my lungs, I have no problem killing myself!" Answers, anyone?
Jealous Rogo
QUOTE (Claudius @ Apr 25 2010, 05:22 AM) *
And can someone please explain Envy's decision? When did the story ever hint to his jealousy of humans? Not to mention his suicide after all that "I don't wanna die!" whining? Whatever you may think of Anime1Envy, at least his series hinted to his issues early (Lab 5), and his fate was a logical end to that characterization (It started with being screwed by Daddy. It ends with getting screwed by Daddy). Here, it's "After 80 chapters of telling you guys that you are ants, the truth is I really envy you! Oh, and even though I screamed my cowardice to the top of my lungs, I have no problem killing myself!" Answers, anyone?


Okay I don't wanna get off topic becuase I've not actuallY SEEN the episode yet, but I can give an explanation based off of what the manga had;

Throughout the series, Envy has been swanning around, full of bravado and constantly telling humans their insects and getting furious anytime a human looked down on him. In fact Envy gets his angriest when the humans he's been fighting have been defiant, in situations where he would be cowering with fear.

Case and point, during his fight with Ling and Marcoh, he had them at his mercy and they were still defiant. Look to this fight Mustang where he's in the same situation, he's screaming and begging for his life. Envy clearly hates humans because they remain defiant where he would be terrified. People get angry when they see people doing things they themselves cannot do.

Envy wishes he had the courage humans do, and he's also shown indications that he wishes he had the friendship humans did as well. Look at how Envy reacts to Lust's death, while admittedly yes, Gluttony was far more furious and saddened by her death, Envy wasn't far behind him. In fact what did Envy want when Lust first died? He wanted Mustang DEAD.

So does Envy being jealous of humans make sense? Yes, to me it does. It wasn't as blatant as Anime1Envy's 'daddy issues' but it was still there. Envy's pride and hatred for humans all came from a place of Envy. He's a coward at heart, and he hates his enemies for their bravery.

As for him killing himself... that's less easy to explain with past scenes with Envy, but I think this one can be explained just be simply saying, Envy hit his limit. Envy had been humiliated to teh point where he'd rather die than endure it anymore. this sounds very Envy, he's hates being humiliated and being looked down on, and that moment when Ed feels sorry for him, is the very lowest he could hit. I gues that explains it? I'm not sure on that one,maybe someone else can try?

I'll post my full thoughts on the actual episode after the subs come out, but from the screencaps it does look like a good, very well put together episode.
Flamez_Freak
Well . . Claudius . . I can't help you wit the first part of your problem . . . . , cause i haven't watched the episode yet , and i dunno how brotherhood has handled the scene , but you do have a point about roy's character . . You know , there are some people who you need , to look after you . . . Don't use the word IF . . . IF PIGS HAD WINGS , THEY'D FLY . . . Now come on , i can understand roy . . I am like him in that sense , its just that he needs someone to help him out , he's human after all . . There are times when people get enraged , and they stop only when someone makes them understand the uselessness behind their rage . . . There are some people who struggle to take decisions on their own . . . (me) . All they need is someone to help them out . . That someone can be anyone , girlfriend , mother , brother , friend , comrade . . . Its certainly , not a character flaw , its just human nature . . .

And about envy , human nature is somethin he actually has mixed feelings for . . . He loves to hate it , but he hates to love it . . Its somethin like that . To be honest wit ya , i really think , envy considered humans to be superior to him , throughout the series , because of one factor , the EMOTIONS THEY SHARE (love , passion , care , kindness, courage , friendship) . But he never showed this complex of his , and instead , started degrading them . . . Its the SOUR GRAPES SCENARIO . . . If you like somethin , but you can't get it , you degrade it . . See , thats the explanation to the whole scenario . . . The main reason envy is named ENVY IS because although he is so so so powerful when compared to ordinary human beings , he lacks that one factor which he really admired and he is envious of humans , for that very reason . Hope you understand my point . .
Jealous rogo has explained the suicide thing pretty well , so i won't go over it again .
In a nutshell , lets take it like this , you want an ipod pretty badly , but no matter what you do , you can't get one for yourself . .Someone you despise , has it. . . And one fine day , that dude you despise comes from nowhere and gives you his ipod . . How are you gonna feel . . Won't you feel miserable , won't you feel pathetic . . Won't you feel like as if you've hit rock bottom . . . Thats how it is ..
And i hope i haven't gone off topic . . . Chiyo , forgive me if i have smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif
Claudius
Look, I'm not arguing that Roy should never have any supervision. Yes, there are times when you need someone to steer you to the right path. The thing is, it appears Roy always needs supervision. Somebody always helped him out, be it Hughes knocking down Lust's life-point or Riza threatening to go Mayerling on Roy for killing Envy. The only time Roy did something alone was trusting Raven in the Blackmail plot, which would not happen if Roy had done some homework or gotten some advice about Raven's character. This ended up blowing up on Roy's face. If this Envy-battle happened somewhere in the 40s, with Roy progressing to being his own objectivity man in future battles or situation, then fine. But this is happening rather late, and it gives the impression that Roy should never be left alone in situations like this. I'd be satisfied if Riza just aimed her gun at Edward and Scar not to interfere, then said: "Colonel, before you make your execution, tell me this. Is this what Colonel Hughes would have allowed?" Then Roy would realize as much pain he feels about his friend's death, he would be hurting Hughes as much as Envy did. This would give a better point to the later 'we need support' speech. Thus, in a way, Hughes gave Envy the harsh blow.
When I meant character flaw, I don't mean I'm faulting Arakawa or saying Roy is a lousy, one-dimensional person. I mean that Roy has a flaw, like all of us. Breasts are a character flaw for Havoc and Anime1Envy's flaw is his family issues.
And thank you for your explanations on MangaEnvy's Envy (though his suicide still is problematic). However, Jealous Rogo, I think his anger over Lust wasn't about camaraderie (he doesn't mention Lust with any significance during the battle, other than she died by Flame Alchemy). Rather, he was pissed that a human ant had destroyed a Homunculus, an insult that can't be allowed.
Vicious74
Lol @ people thinking Envy's jealousy of humans came out of nowhere. It's kinda sad when you need to have everything spoon-fed to you and fail to notice the obvious hints just because they are subtle instead of in-your-face.

Jealous Rogo (as usual I might add) has a great understanding of his character and explained it pretty well, but I'd also like to emphasize the most obvious part:



Honestly, if getting THAT pissed off and outraged by the fact that he's being looked down upon by humans doesn't SCREAM inferiority complex, which in turn naturally leads to ENVY, I don't know what does.

And srsly, why WOULDN'T he envy the bonds humans share? Just look at HIS bonds. Father only sees the homunculi as pawns. Wrath only talks to him to order him around and make him do the dirty work. Prides orders him around AND treats him like trash. Greed constantly mocks him. Gluttony and Sloth are too dumb to count. Lust was basically the only person in the world he seemed to have a decent connection with, and she was burned to death by the same man who reduced him to that miserable state. I mean, c'mon now.

As for killing himself, you've really got to not be paying attention to question that, when Riza said at least twice that SHE DIDN'T INTEND TO LET HIM LIVE AND WAS GONNA KILL HIM NO MATTER WHAT. In fact the only reason she didn't when he got out of Ed's hand was because Scar noticed that he didn't have much longer anyways.

So not only is he in a situation where he knows he's not gonna get out of alive, his whole entire life has been basically exposed as a pathetic lie of empty bravado AND the one who exposed it, the only person to ever realize and understand his true feelings, was one of the very humans he despises and envies the most. To Envy, that was naturally the ultimate humiliation. What did he have to live for after that, when the one thing that kept him going, his false claims of superiority over humans and delighting in the fact that they're pathetic creatures, had been exposed as BS and it had been made QUITE clear that he was the pathetic one there? Add to that the fact that he was gonna be killed regardless, and you can easily see 'suicide was his only option', lolz.

Anyways, loved the episode. Both Mustang's crisis and Envy's death were amazingly well done and the anime even added to them with some flashbacks to certain scenes and lines. Though I think they might've made Envy's death a little TOO dramatic. I don't think Arakawa's intent was for us to feel sorry for him (I mean he's still a complete monster) but simply to show how pathetic and humiliated he was in the end.

And I can see how some people might say Mustang and Envy's staredown was too long, but personally I felt it was perfect like that. Seeing Roy's face full of growing wrath and Envy's cowering in more fear with each moment. The tension was great.

Much like the corresponding chapter, it was hard for me to care about the stuff that happened after that when the first half was so good, but GARmstrong pwning Sloth was great nonetheless. And even though I don't care much for Izumi, the ending song made her entrance pretty cool. And of course, FINALLY the HHH vs Father staredown. Looking forward to that one.
Broken Chouchou
QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Apr 25 2010, 06:17 PM) *
This has to be one of the best executed episodes in the series. The pacing was perfect honestly and the animation was superb throughout.


This.

QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Apr 25 2010, 06:17 PM) *
Anyway 10/10 for the episode for me.


This. And everything in between.
Had me on the verge there a couple of times (yes, I'm weak for melodramatic music). Really an excellent episode.

Everyone's performances were great. Ani
mation was fantastic. Music was beautiful.

My faith in that this show can actually be amazing - and emotional - when it wants to has been reinforced (which, of course, just makes the crap parts - there's quite a few of those - and the rushed, understated events of the early story even more upsetting).

This is definitely getting favved.
Mr. Deathy
This has to be one of the best executed episodes in the series. The pacing was perfect honestly and the animation was superb throughout.

All of the Mustang and Envy stuff was really well done. I don't see how they could've done it better.

I'm glad they didn't rush the emotional scenes for Envy's death but I'm surprised just how long they let it go for seeing as how the show is usually paced really quickly, but it is a good thing. I guess the way they used the credits for the Hohenheim scene let them spend more time for Envy's scenes. I actually expected it to be this episode the Hohenheim scene was moved to but I was surprised it used up the credits. I bet they'll do that again in the last few eps since they'll need every second of animation time they can get.

Anyway 10/10 for the episode for me.
TheSentinel
Good episode. I really liked how the animation turned out for when Hawkeye was unloading into Envy. The part where Envy wings her and she promptly catches her falling rifle, flips it around, and promptly knee-caps him is one my favorite moments of badassery.

Only beef with the episode is that is very much in two pieces. The conclusion of the whole Mustang's wrath on Envy followed by a return the Armstrongs vs. Sloth.

The whole revenge angle to Mustang's dealings with the Homunculi makes sense and I loved the last couple epsiodes / parts in the manga. That said, from a pure realistic / pragmatic stand point, I would have much preferred for Dr. Marcoh to kill of Envy a number of episodes / issues ago.

Now just gotta wait for the translation to see how I feel about the dialogue when they're all trying to talk Mustang down.
Bag of Magic Food
I thought Homunculus's voice was more entertaining in the flashback where he was in the flask. Maybe that's the idea: He's ripped so many emotions out of himself to turn into his children, there's not much left, and so Father is the most boring person in the world now. Of course, Envy's voice was also even funnier when he got turned little, so maybe it's just that voice filter that's fun to listen to. Speaking of, I think I would have preferred to see what would become of little Envy if he were taken to Xing...

I also wonder what the English dub will do with Father's voice. In the original Japanese he had the same voice as the narrator, but the English narrator would probably be even less fitting. Though if they wanted the same kind of voice, they could just get Father Cornello's actor stoned drunk, I think that would work...
A Pierrot's Aria
I thought this episode was brilliant- one of the best yet!

The interaction between Roy and Riza was great. I loved the facial expressions; especially when Roy looked so pained over his memories and the decision to back down. The scream/yell when he finally gave up and let off one last flame was a really nice touch and it actually bought a tear to my eye because it sounded so defeated and pained.

The part that made me want to cry the most, though --and I'm surprising myself by saying this-- was the part with Envy. I can't stand him yet his tears made me feel so sorry for him. It was actually quite heart-wrenching with all the crying and screaming; he seemed so desperate.

I loved the music too! Although one slight thing that irritates me about it is the fact that a lot of the time they play the same track, but it's played with different instruments/different tempo etc. I wish they would come up with more that's completely new. Having said that, it still sounded great! : )
Megabyte117
Great episode. Despite being previously upset when Bones removed the "Burn my back" scene from the Ishbal flashback episode, it seems to fit even more here. Especially where Mustang says something along the lines of - "I've forced you to go through painful emotions again" (subs). Izumi's entrance at the end was spectacular as well.

By the way, does anyone know the name of the song that plays during Hughes' montage?
Chiyo
Before we get too off topic, please carry on the discussion about VA's (voice actors) at the relevant thread here. I am moving a couple of your posts there.
FailToImpress
Gahhh, so emotional! One of the best episodes I've seen in a while!
Wow, after last episode I didn't think that Roy could look any more pissed off, boy I was wrong.

I really liked the addition of Riza showing him her back, nicely done. Although I did find it a bit strange that during that scene, Roy had NO reaction to it whatsoever lmao. It just seemed like he was thinking... oh, cool.

The ending was a bit random, I wonder why they decided to change it.
Mr. Deathy
QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Apr 25 2010, 11:18 AM) *
The ending was a bit random, I wonder why they decided to change it.


It's kind of obvious why they did it. They're clearly going to struggle to cram all the scenes they have left from the manga into the last 9 episodes. Using the animation space where the ending video usually is to add in another scene to the episode is a way to cram even more into their alloted time per episode.

Also the Father-Hohenheim scene really needed to be an end of ep cliffhanger, yet the Izumi scene works well as one too, so this way they could have both, without trying to cram the Father-Hohenheim scene after the credits (which there would've been no time for).

I expect them to use this method again in some of the coming eps.
Flamez_Freak
Watched the raw and i have to admit that it was a great episode . . . And just so that you guys know , there was a rumour today , that eclipse has dropped all its shows because they lost their main translator . . . But now i have a confirmation from their irc , that eclipse is droppin all the shows which it was planning to do this season . . . . And will only be doing fma brotherhood and kaichou wa maid sama . . . This season . . .
Jealous Rogo
QUOTE (Vicious74 @ Apr 25 2010, 09:15 AM) *
I don't think Arakawa's intent was for us to feel sorry for him (I mean he's still a complete monster) but simply to show how pathetic and humiliated he was in the end.


Not to get off topic, because I think it's relevant to this episode, but isn't there a quote floating around from Arakawa from soem interview saying that her intention was to make Envy suffer for killing Hughes. Which would also explain the slightly over the top one sided fight with him being killed over and over in hideous pain. If someone could find that quote it'd be great, otherwise I'm seeming rather silly here.

Oh and to add to the reasons Envy chose to kill himself - he was dying anyway. When Riza goes to shoot him, Scar stops her and tells her that there's no point, as Envy hasn't got any time left. I think also that Envy's suicide, along with him respectfully calling Edward by his name, something he'd never done til that point, were signs of Envy sort of maturing and finally standing up and being defiant in the face of death, even if it was just in robbing his enemies of the satisfaction of killing him.

I'd just like to say that Envy is probably one of the most complex characters in the series, and an example of why the Manga so far outshine the Anime. Anime1Envy was okay, but literally all he did was go on and on about his daddy issues and how much he hated Hohenheim, whereas as Manga Envy... he's a bit more complex. He's the sort of person that we've all probably met at some point, someone who taunts and bullies to make up for their own satisfaction. Thus he is a more rounded and well thought out character.

Wow I've made alot of comments on a thread for an episode I haven't actually seen yet, I hope I've not gone off topic. If so I do apologise, I'm trying to keep my comments relevent to the episode.

EveningAlchemist
It may just be because I'm having a sick day, but I just burst into tears when they showed Hughes in Roy's memories. The emotion was phenomenal in this episode! I wasn't expecting to feel this strongly about everything, especially Hughes since I've watched him die in anime1, the manga, and now Brotherhood, but obviously he is still missed.

I think the music played a big part in creating the mood, since it was moody itself and outrightly dramatic. Animation was on the ball too, and seeing Roy just torture Envy gave me shivers. Roy has passion and ambition, but now we know the flip-side of that can be devastating. No one knows that more than Riza. When I found out in the manga that she would kill herself if she killed Roy, I was astounded at how deep their relationship went (romantic or not) and I think Roy let go of revenge because he didn't want another death of someone he loved, even if he was dead himself. That's deep stuff right there. I think even I'm a little "envious"!

I loved Edward's face when he looked at Envy. It almost seems... compassionate? I think this is really when we understand why Envy is Envy. And it really is sad, how he is jealous of humans but can never be one, but I'm glad he's gone now.

I can't believe this... I literally have to mop up my tears from the keyboard...

On the contrast, Olivier ordering the Central troops around, and Alex with his sparkles of Armstrong made me very happy. Awesome music for that scene. laugh.gif

Wow, they actually didn't show the normal visuals for the end credits... That's alright with me!
deet-tastic
I've been waiting for this episode since November '09 when I first was introduced to fma and read this chapter for the first time.
It did not dissapoint. Not one bit. The animation in the first half was just.. ah *fangasm*

My one and only complaint, was that there seemed to be a flaw in Olivier's animation for about 5 seconds. When it first showed her.. I dunno. It seemed a bit off.

FailToImpress
QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Apr 25 2010, 08:00 PM) *
It's kind of obvious why they did it. They're clearly going to struggle to cram all the scenes they have left from the manga into the last 9 episodes. Using the animation space where the ending video usually is to add in another scene to the episode is a way to cram even more into their alloted time per episode.

Also the Father-Hohenheim scene really needed to be an end of ep cliffhanger, yet the Izumi scene works well as one too, so this way they could have both, without trying to cram the Father-Hohenheim scene after the credits (which there would've been no time for).

I expect them to use this method again in some of the coming eps.


I kind of thought that after I thought about it more. I'm not complaining anyway, this ending sequence isn't really all that interesting.

EveningAlchemist: ahh that's what I forgot to include in my post! The Hughes montage was so sad, I wasn't expecting it so it caught me a bit off guard. The episode in itself was enough to make me teary eyed, that just pushed it over the edge!
Neurotripsy
As an Envy fan I was dreading this episode & it was pretty heart-wrenching to watch, but I'm so relieved they managed to do chapter 95 justice (I was afraid it would be sped through like a lot of other scenes, but surprisingly they let the whole thing play out perfectly). Top-notch work from all the seiyuu as usual, especially Takayama. smile.gif
Goral
Everything below is my opinion and I won't add "IMO" in every sentence. Feel free to disagree. And I prefer to refer to Envy as a "she" but I will refer to that worm as "he" as well".

And so here we are, the most annoying chapter of FMA (94th) has finally been animated. I didn't like it in the manga and since FMA:B is several times worse than manga I hated this episode. There were only 5 good things in it: Izumi's entrance, topless Riza, Roy's anger (before everything became pink and everyone loved one another and wanted to hug), Armstrong's and Hohenheim's performances. The rest made me want to puke or at best extremely annoyed me.
Firstly, Olivier annoyed me as always acting all tough and all. The whole "you're under my command now" and soldiers instantly listening to her was so unconvincing that I can't believe Arakawa did that. "Defend yourselves and don't be killed". No s*it Sherlock. And I should start with the fact they didn't shoot her on sight (even though they were ordered to) but waited until she could talk to them and until dolls came.
Secondly, the thing with Roy was utterly stupid. From berserk mode Roy went to hugging everyone, saying that shrimp make him realize his mistake (yeah, right...), etc. That was completely out of his character.

To be more specific:

1) Roy killed dozens of innocent people (and who knows if not hundreds, with his destructive power I wouldn't be surprised), woman and children also (whether directly or not, doesn't matter) as well as Ishbalans that only defended themselves from aggressors and had no chance against Amestris' superior power (and he knew it). He didn't kill Envy however, because it was, eh... wrong?! So mass murderer, trash and war criminal in one person was of more worth than dozens of Ishbalans? It certainly looks that way. Mustang literally made people s*it themselves and he didn't even budge then but continued to do a human barbecue. There was no sign of emotion when he fried people, even the ones that had no strength to fight back. What's more a while later he cheerfully talked with Hughes! Years later he flirted with girls and acted casually as if nothing happened, he wasn't a psycho and didn't kill people randomly. Why would killing Envy change him? Let's be serious here.

2) I don't know what Roy was waiting for with killing Envy. Before Riza or Ed could do anything he would have already burned him. He also should have done that before Riza put a gun into his head, it looked like he was waiting for her to do it. He also could kill Envy without hurting Ed (he would only warm up his automail a little).

3) Scar was preaching him, now that's a good one. He and Scar are completely different and their revenge was on a different scale too. Scar hated (and still hates but he is over with killing) ALL Amestrians. Whether they were doctors (that saved his brethren lives) or children (Ed, Al) it didn't make a difference to him. His desire for revenge had no end since there were many Ishbalan murderers. Mustang however hated only ONE person. Chain of hatred would end where it started with one death. He would kill Envy and it would be THE END. And no, I won't believe that it could change him in any way. If he wasn't changed for worse after killing innocent PEOPLE (not some worms, mass murderes at that) he would most certainly not be changed by killing the biggest son-of-a-**ore that existed. He was a guy in his thirties, people don't change easily at that age. And we've seen he could flirt, joke and live a normal life after what he had done in Ishbal, if Envy's death would change him that would mean Ishvalans were worse trash to him than Envy, i.e. he was SOF** himself and a racist.

4) To Riza torturing Envy was OK (she let Mustang burn Envy's eyes, tongue, etc.) but killing him no. She wanted to kill him herself though.

5) In the anime Mustang knew exactly when Envy would be left with one life and even made a special combo with his last attack and took a while with it, groaning as if he wanted to take a dump. Last explosion also seemed bigger then previous ones (again suggesting he knew it would be enough). That didn't make sense at all. Nice Bones. You've managed to screw up a story that was already screwed up beyond saving. That's an achievement.

6) As Hawthorn wrote in the manga thread, Envy not killing Riza the first time they've met in the tunnels was strange. She loved to kill people in that manner but somehow it made sense to her to go with Riza and wait until they've met Mustang? We've seen that Mustang was capable of doing very small burns so he could probably neutralize Envy before she could do anything once they've met (and it was rather inevitable). And if she wanted to have Riza as a hostage it would be easier to her to absorb her (and not killing her by the way) thus preventing Roy from attacking (just like she did with Ed).

4/10 for the episode, and it's me being generous and taking into account Arakawa having a kid and all.
Kyelinn
Because he would be killing Envy for revenge for Envy killing Hughes. Revenge consumes a person and if Mustang had killed Envy to avenge Hughes, it may not have satisfied him and then revenge would've literally taken over him and could've turned Mustang into something he's not. As for Ishval, Roy had only just become a state alchemist and only just began working for the military if I'm not mistaken. He was just doing his job and no he didn't cheerfully chat with Hughes after it either. He and Hughes weren't happy about the war anymore than they were, but he had a job to do. Most likely that job was keeping him alive financially, but Mustang DID bat an eye at it and Mustang did NOT like it. It's not like he was Kimblee and killing for fun. It's no different than our military being at war with another country. They have no choice. They have to fight for us.
Broken Chouchou
Let me just point out, Goral, that all the killing Roy did in Ishbal wasn't because of hatred, revenge or other personal reasons. He was a soldier carrying out other people's orders. This, however, is Roy succumbing to his own dark, ugly feelings that are raging inside of him. It wasn't about killing Envy or not - it wasn't about who he was killing. It was about why he was killing. Murdering for such a low, despicable - and purely egotistical - reason as revenge, would probably change him, if you ask me.

That's why it would be "okay" for Riza - or anyone else in the group - to off him. Their motives would be different. For them it would be about eliminating a threat (not something you can say for Roy).

And even if it didn't change him at all, as they say in the episode itself, how could a person who gives in to his own, selfish reasons be fit to lead a nation?

Edit: Somehow (beyond my apprehension) missed that the argument continued on this page, this was intended as a response to Goral's original post.
Goral
@Kyelinn
You were trying to justify what Mustang did in Ishbal by blaming military for it. And him being young. According to you it is an excuse for murder, revenge however is not.

@Broken Chouchou

You're just repeating Arakawa's words. Arakawa forcefully imposes her opinion on us and what she writes is completely naive. It has a moral value and it's good since it is manga for children but is stupid IMO. People don't change that easily, and they become immune to many things (such as killing). Since Mustang killed lots of people and didn't become a bad person, killing Envy would not affect him, why should it? Let's be rational here.
Kyelinn
When you're in the military, you HAVE NO CHOICE. You can't just quit the military either. He was part of the military, he'd just become a state alchemist and not ONCE did I say he was young! WTF And I never once said it was an excuse for murder. The military says jump and you say how high. That's the way it is. It is NO different than the US military fighting to protect it's people. That doesn't mean it's RIGHT nor is it justified. I don't like it, I think it's wrong, but Mustang had no choice. He was part of the Isvhal extermination whether he liked it or not. He was a soldier and he had a responsibility to the military. It's no different than a US soldier being ordered to kill whatever countries we've been at war with.
Jealous Rogo
QUOTE (Goral @ Apr 26 2010, 08:21 AM) *
You're just repeating Arakawa's words. Arakawa forcefully imposes her opinion on us and what she writes is completely naive. It has a moral value and it's good since it is manga for children but is stupid IMO. People don't change that easily, and they become immune to many things (such as killing). Since Mustang killed lots of people and didn't become a bad person, killing Envy would not affect him, why should it? Let's be rational here.


Okay I don't see how what Arakawa is saying is niave at all. What she's saying is that all the killing mustang did in Ishbal is wrong and that he will one day have to pay for it, see Vol 15, but in teh end he did that out of duty and survival rather than out of hatred or revenge. What's she's saying is killing in self defense or because you've been ordered are wrong, but murdering out of hatred is far, far worse. To say that's niave... is saying pretty much every justice system in the world is niave. If your attacked by someone who intends to kill you nad you kill them in self defense, MOST countries will give you some slack in court for that. If your a soldier at war and your ordered to shoot the enemy soldier, who has been ordered to d the same, every country nto only is okay with this but will reward you for it. If out of hatred for another human being, you go out and shoot someone dead who has not attacked you in anyway, you will be arrested and sentanced.

Generally speaking it's accepted that it's okay to kill if your at war, in fact Arakawa challenges that. She says that in fact it's NOT okay that Mustang killed in the war, and that he WILL have to pay for it, eventually. The whole path to the Fuhrer for Mustang has been about remeption for killing during Ishbal, so really, I think him killing Envy out of rage and hatred, would knock him off that path.

Ultimately what was it that Mustang was consumed by? Wrath. Who is the current Fuhrer? Wrath. The whole point they're trying to make is that a country led by a man consumed by hatred that easily, is the screwed up one they live in at the moment. If Mustang wants to make a difference, he needs to be a different man from the one who he's trying to place.

Oh and FullMetal Alchemist is not for children. I can't even begin to imagine how you got that idea. It's for Teenagers and up. biggrin.gif
Vagrant
The art looked really crisp to me in this episode.

Dodgy music in the flashback intro. In the manga, what chapter was that in? I want to check out the scenes.
On the other hand, the music during the part with Envy getting owned was great. (a new version of fanfare for the brave or to be king - from the OSTs?) Really solidified the cathartic nature of this part. I had hoped for this last week.

Roy's extra burnination is probably the only manga change I'm cool with.
His voice and appearance still seemed a little too dark to me. Maybe it's just a personal interpretation, or relates to my feelings about this plot point over his revenge.
I've warmed to the idea behind it, but going to the extent of Riza pointing a gun at him and all the shouting...It's just too much.
Maybe it's due to my tiredness but they cut/change some lines after Ed catches Envy?

Worst part of the episode, was Envy's really stretched out death scene. Man alive.
They tried to direct it like it was a sad moment, him squirming and the music swelling and the tears and the goodbye. This was the little egotistical prick who kicked off the war and killed Hughes!

Again, they seemed to cut stuff with the Armstrongs. Particularly the part where the other soldiers tell the new squad to "Do what she says!"
Mr. Armstrong got to be badass though.

Yay, Falman. I totally forgot why he wasn't with Roy and co.

Nice bit with Father and Hohenheim, the music worked quite well. But yet again they make Hohenheim seem super serious.
Goral
@Kyelinn

Let me rephrase then, you were making excuses for him when he fried innocent people. To me it's trying to justify him but if you prefer I can call it "making excuses". You were trying to invalidate my argument by making his war crime less serious. "He was made to do it". "He didn't enjoy it". "He was in the military". Seriously, how would you name it if not "justifying"?
- You killed him.
- He pulled his gun first.
I would call it justifying.

- You killed them.
- I was ordered to.
Likewise.

Anyway, what difference does it make that he was in a military? It's better if thousands of people die then me, right? I can give a hand in a genocide if I'm being ordered to, right?
I know soldier cannot resign without consequences and I know that trial would wait for him. The problem was it was clear who was aggressor and who was a victim here. Who had superior power and who didn't stand a chance. Roy was kicking the lying (on the ground). And Alex Armstrong somehow survived after disobeying orders. He even became a major.

As for you not saying he was young. Is he old according to you or what? I don't get it.
QUOTE (Kyelinn @ Apr 26 2010, 02:53 PM) *
As for Ishval, Roy had only just become a state alchemist and only just began working for the military if I'm not mistaken.

We know Roy is now 30, in Ishbal he was about 10 years younger. Why did you even mention it if not to emphasize the fact he was still a young rookie? Either you mentioned him because you wanted to make your post longer or it was supposed to be an argument that his lack of experience led to a series of wrong decisions. Or could you elaborate and explain what you meant?

I'm not thinking poorly of FMA, only this particular part. It should be obvious by now, I was active in manga thread after all and most of the time praised Arakawa. The only time I did the opposite was in the 94th thread. And I'm not causing trouble but expressing my opinion. Since you're replying to my post, I'm replying to yours. You don't want me to reply then don't reply, easy as that.

And yes, Mustang is a character that Arakawa can do whatever she desires with it. But there is sth called consistency. If Mustang changed after killing Envy it would mean Arakawa was being inconsistent and everything we knew about him before was gibberish. All in all Mustang did not kill Envy and we have no means to know "what would happen if". But since Scar somehow changed for the better what makes you think that Mustang would not? And let me remind you that Scar killed not one but several people out of his revenge. PEOPLE not worms (unless you're saying that Envy was a human). Mustang wouldn't even kill his own species but some animal that had to be put down anyway.

Killing innocent people and not changing for worse and Scar changing for better only support my opinion. Against it is that Ed (that is a kid and didn't experience what Mustang did), Scar (whose case I've already discussed about) and Riza feared it would change him and we might think that it was Arakawa's words themselves (and by that I mean her personal belief not only character's). But as I said, it would only show Arakawa's inconsistency.

@Jealous Rogo
Teenagers are not children? O_O Maybe 17-19 not (although I could argue with that) but below?

Sure he has to pay, war is bad, etc., but that is beyond my point which is: Mustang didn't become a bad person. He wants to pay for what he had done and that's honourable of him but what I was trying to say was that killing Envy wouldn't change him since killing innocent people didn't change him. And why would one act scratch everything what he's done so far? There are no perfect people. People feel anger. I don't see a problem with Mustang killing Envy and still becoming a good leader, there is no conflict here.
Chiyo
Thank-you for ignoring me and continuing to bicker even when I requested you don't. Let me make this clear.

NOBODY IS MORE "CORRECT" THAN ANYONE ELSE. Stop making/taking fights personally

I am going to edit your posts and remove anything irrelevant instead of removing your posts altogether. If you really want to debate if Roy's actions were justified, why not open a thread dedicated to discussing it? You can discuss the whole scene, from Envy to Roy and Riza.
Bag of Magic Food
Probably because most of the times somebody starts a new topic, a moderator finds a reason it should be appended to an already existing topic instead. wink.gif

QUOTE (Vagrant @ Apr 26 2010, 09:20 AM) *
Yay, Falman. I totally forgot why he wasn't with Roy and co.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that. I had been wondering whether Falman was with the Briggs troops who sneaked into Central, or if he wasn't considered a bad enough dude for the operation and had to stay behind to hold down the fort.
deet-tastic
Yeah, instead of returning like Breda and Fuery, Falman was with Briggs. Who are with Mustang. That and they needed Falmans brain powers.
_Jelly
Loooooooooove it when people say they're just voicing their opinion, yet go crazy when people don't agree with it. Love you guys.

Good episode I think (though I havent watched the subbed one yet...). Not the most amazing episode but overall nice. I didnt like how Envy's worm form came out of his head nor the angles used when he was fighting Riza. Good to see the "burn my back" thing was included for those that dont read the manga. And Armstrong. Love that guy.
Kyelinn
I really could care less if somebody doesn't agree with my opinion or not. I just don't appreciate being accused of saying something I never said.

I'm so glad they brought in the 'burn my back' scene. That made me very happy. This whole episode was full of emotion. It was really very well done. I didn't think Roy could possibly look any more raging than what he did in the episode prior to this one. I was wrong! Very good episode.
Goral
I have an advice to you Kyelinn. Don't reply to my posts in the future, we both would be happier that way. You're still denying that you were justifying Mustang's actions by making excuses "he was ordered to", "he was just doing his job", "he didn't enjoy it", "Roy had only just become a state alchemist and only just began working for the military" (read: he was young and stupid, but no you didn't write "young", lol).
You've also written an obvious lie that Mustang wasn't talking cheerfully with Hughes neither during the war or after. And when I've proved you wrong you didn't even comment on that and instead this post was deleted. Whatever.
Broken Chouchou
QUOTE (Goral @ Apr 26 2010, 05:31 PM) *
If Mustang changed after killing Envy it would mean Arakawa was being inconsistent


Because, of course, Ishbal didn't change him at all. Where would this reasoning be coming from? That he was still able to flirt with girls and maintain a "normal" life? (Which, I don't really even think he has. Ever since Ishbal, he's been living only for his work, for his goal, never letting that out of his sight, in order to change the country, and atone for what he's done. I don't think he's had much of a normal life at all.) Or, as you say later in your post, that he didn't become a bad person?

I still think there's a difference in the killing of people, in a war, because you're ordered to, and out of survival, and killing someone (or "something" if you will) out of your own hate, for self-gratification.

Maybe he wouldn't be consumed by his anger like the characters present imply, or become a 'bad person'. But I do think it would affect him, nevertheless.

Vengeance isn't the way to go, if you ask me. It might give you some immediate satisfactory feelings, but in a longer run, I doubt it will help you process or deal with your emotions. The anger and sadness you felt certainly won't be gone just like that, because of it. If anything, I think it could make you more frustrated.

QUOTE (Goral @ Apr 26 2010, 05:31 PM) *
But since Scar somehow changed for the better what makes you think that Mustang would not?


You mean, after all those years of senseless, brutal killing?

And what do you mean by 'changed for the better'? Scar ended up a better person having killed all those people than he would have, had he not? Or do you simply mean that he became a better person than his previous mass murderer-self when he realized his wrongings?

(I don't consider this discussion off-topic since it's dealing with a - or THE - major event in this episode.)

---

For me, this is definitely one of the best episodes in Brotherhood so far. I hope the upcoming parts requiring it display as much emotion.
Jealous Rogo
Okay actually sat doiwn and watched the ep and... wow.

While people may argue that they dislike this portion of the manga, I defy anyone to not at least give props to teh VA work. Envy's VA in particular knockedit out of the park. No one is gonna be able to match her work. The scene was fantastic, so fantastic I cannot put it into words. I actually felt SORRY for Envy in the end. The way they handled the scene was just... sad. You finally saw Envy for the pathetic wretch he is.

Also, if you watched the episode and you still can't understand why Envy killed himself... I think BONES made it even clearer than the manga.

Basically Envy was raised to despise humans, with his father and brother (Pride in particular) constantly going on about the pride of a Homunculus. So Envy's wish to be more human caused a conflict in himself, and caused him to act out against humans, in order to make sure no one ever suspected he actually wanted to be more like them. No wonder Envy wasn't very fond of Greed, his 'out' brother if you like. His line to Greed about Ling's body 'don't be surprised if your new form disgusts me' is so... over-compensatory, like deep down Envy would probably not mind being human at all. So what happens when he's found out for what he is? he kills himself.

...is this sounding at ALL familiar to anyone? Like... well-documented cases of people killing themselves in real life for a certain reason, because of the way they were raised and attitudes they are supposed to hold? I think you get what I'm getting at, and like I said those examples are sadly all too common and real, so the idea Envy woudl do something similar for a similar reason. Yeah I buy that.

The rest of the episode... was a massive MEH after that. I mean I love the Armstrongs but I was just like 'all this stuff has NO impact on me after that tour-de-force of emotion I just saw.' I really think they'd have been better off arranging things so the episode ended with Envy's death rather than how they did. I dunno, it didn't lessen Envy's stuff btu it DID lessen everything else.

Ahhh nevermind, we get awesomeness abounds next week anyway.

Maybe I'll be able to over-analyse to death someone else nowEnvy's gone tongue.gif
IceSkadi
QUOTE (Jealous Rogo @ Apr 27 2010, 06:18 PM) *
While people may argue that they dislike this portion of the manga, I defy anyone to not at least give props to teh VA work. Envy's VA in particular knockedit out of the park. No one is gonna be able to match her work. The scene was fantastic, so fantastic I cannot put it into words. I actually felt SORRY for Envy in the end. The way they handled the scene was just... sad. You finally saw Envy for the pathetic wretch he is.


I agree, Envy's VA was phenomenal in this episode. The whole cry scene was very intense and in my opinion slightly better than in the manga (probably because the voice has a great importance in this part).
I do really loved Roy's VA too, especially when he snapped to release all his anger/frustration/sadness.

The whole Envy's departure was really sad, sadder than Gluttony's one. I mean reading the manga I was impressed but watching this episode I was totally astonished. In particular the fact that during the Envy's eyecatch there wasn't the "Fullmetal-guy-voice" made all more serious.


I must admit that I would have preferred to see the whole "Mustang's revenge ark" in a single episode, but heck this one was fantastic.
Kyelinn
QUOTE (Goral @ Apr 27 2010, 09:32 AM) *
I have an advice to you Kyelinn. Don't reply to my posts in the future, we both would be happier that way. You're still denying that you were justifying Mustang's actions by making excuses "he was ordered to", "he was just doing his job", "he didn't enjoy it", "Roy had only just become a state alchemist and only just began working for the military" (read: he was young and stupid, but no you didn't write "young", lol).
You've also written an obvious lie that Mustang wasn't talking cheerfully with Hughes neither during the war or after. And when I've proved you wrong you didn't even comment on that and instead this post was deleted. Whatever.

Oh spare me. You're not worth the time or effort. So how about you just stop responding to me and let me be.
deet-tastic
Back on topic now..

Some of the camera angles did bother me a bit. The ways they chose to "film" some scenes. But they were still awesome.
This scene in particular was made of win. It was so fluid. I took like a million screenshots of it.
http://deetersthebrotherhoodfangirl.blogsp...ye-moments.html
Kaori Ayanami
Please... Let's take into account that Arakawa is Japanese, and so are her "target" readers, so to speak. They're mostly NOT Christian, not even Western-minded, so don't try to judge them by standards they don't even think about. And, no, I am not justifying him (or Arakawa). I'm explaining the situation.
QUOTE (Goral @ Apr 26 2010, 09:31 AM) *
Anyway, what difference does it make that he was in a military? It's better if thousands of people die then me, right? I can give a hand in a genocide if I'm being ordered to, right?
Then again, it's not about what it's right, but about what he believes it's right. And the society he lives in, of course. Genocide has happened in real world thanks to effed up thinkings, after all.
QUOTE
If Mustang changed after killing Envy it would mean Arakawa was being inconsistent and everything we knew about him before was gibberish.
It's not about killing Envy or not. It's about letting himself be driven by his hatred. So, if he accidentally killed Envy by stomping his boot on a little too hard, it wouldn't matter. XD
QUOTE
He wants to pay for what he had done and that's honourable of him but what I was trying to say was that killing Envy wouldn't change him since killing innocent people didn't change him.
We've been reading different mangas (and watching different animes) then. He was changed. Hell, even by the "His battlefield, once more" gaiden he was already scarred.

Yeah, he laughed with Hughes during the war. They were both goofing around to forget about the horrid thing they were doing. If you read/watched the entire scene you would have noticed that.
He did flirt normally after that... for information and cover-up. To sum it up, he may have recovered somewhat, but he never forgets about it.

Kyelinn, please, don't bring up the American troops topic. We are not all American. Thank you in advance.
Vicious74
QUOTE (Jealous Rogo @ Apr 27 2010, 05:18 PM) *
Okay actually sat doiwn and watched the ep and... wow.

While people may argue that they dislike this portion of the manga, I defy anyone to not at least give props to teh VA work. Envy's VA in particular knockedit out of the park. No one is gonna be able to match her work. The scene was fantastic, so fantastic I cannot put it into words. I actually felt SORRY for Envy in the end. The way they handled the scene was just... sad. You finally saw Envy for the pathetic wretch he is.

Also, if you watched the episode and you still can't understand why Envy killed himself... I think BONES made it even clearer than the manga.

Basically Envy was raised to despise humans, with his father and brother (Pride in particular) constantly going on about the pride of a Homunculus. So Envy's wish to be more human caused a conflict in himself, and caused him to act out against humans, in order to make sure no one ever suspected he actually wanted to be more like them. No wonder Envy wasn't very fond of Greed, his 'out' brother if you like. His line to Greed about Ling's body 'don't be surprised if your new form disgusts me' is so... over-compensatory


And ironic because Envy actually goes out of his way to look human and hates being seen in his beast homunculus form.

And this

"So Envy's wish to be more human caused a conflict in himself, and caused him to act out against humans, in order to make sure no one ever suspected he actually wanted to be more like them."

is very true and like you said stuff like that happens in real life a lot. For example, people who act like complete homophobics in order to try and supress their own homosexual urges and make sure no one ever suspects they exist.

And that is part of why Envy is one of Arakawa's best characters. He's a very believable character and we all come across people like him in our lives.
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