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Chiyo
Talk-back/content discussion for English dubbed episode on Adult Swim starts on page 5. smile.gif


Please post the discussions on the content of episode 53 here.
This thread is declared as a Spoiler zone for the content of the first 53 episodes.

Please don't ask for links on where to watch this episode, raw or subbed. Discussions on 'where to watch' belong in Where/How to Watch FMA Series 2. Don't post screencaps unless highlighting something important about the content of the episode. Just like on in most area's of the board, avoid one line posts, spam of any kind or conversations between two members.

Screenshots: see Hilary's Post and more at Omni's Post.


Summary: Citizens around Amestris tune into Radio Capital, a station in Central where several Mustang's subordinates are at as the Fuhrer's wife is being interviewed about the attempt on her life. Mustang's group uses this to gain support of their countrymen, who believe that a coup has been started to overthrow Bradley and Mustang and his group are defending the status quo. Hearing Maria Ross on the program, Denny Brosh realizes that she's still alive. The Central command officers are surprised to see tanks attacking HQ. Meanwhile, underground, Roy and Riza arrive to help Ed's group and Roy easily dispatches several homunculi zombies with his flames. Mei and Envy, the latter chasing the former, end up in the same room, where Envy sees the unlikely partnership between State Alchemists and Scar and comments on it. Roy demands to know who killed Maes Hughes and Envy eventually admits to it, showing him how he transformed into Hughes' wife to catch him off guard. Roy tells Ed, Scar, and the others to go ahead, as he will handle Envy on his own. Roy easily injures Envy repeatedly using his flame alchemy, even when Envy transforms into his larger form. Envy slips away and tries disguising himself as Hughes, but Roy doesn't fall for it. Having been separated during the fight, Roy and Riza reunite, but Riza points her gun at Roy. Penguintruth, used with permission.
A Pierrot's Aria
I thought it looked like a good episode! I'll say more when it's subbed.

However, I thought it was VERY strange place to end. xD!! That bit was what I was looking forward to as well *shot*

But, do my eyes deceive me? Or in that preview did it say we're getting the "burn my back" scene?
penguintruth
My initial thoughts:

- "Up next, Mrs. Bradley will spin the Wheel of Sex or get a Chocolate Bandit Mask from Sal the Stockbroker!"
- All right, we get it, stop lingering on this radio station bull....!
- People Talking: Brotherhood! Be astounded by people talking amongst themselves while the plot is at a standstill! The DVD and Blu-Ray will have additional footage of NOTHING HAPPENING!
- Oh, hey, let's waste more time with that homunculi army that make for completely uninteresting antagonists!
- Well, nevermind wasting time. Looks like Roy's hax is good for something, at least.
- You know what, forget I was complaining about Roy's fight with Envy coming up. Let's get on with it to break the monotony.
- HELL YEAH, TALES OF THE MASTER! AWESOME. Do want.
- And here's the fight you've been... DAT ARM.
- Oh hey, Scar, let's pretend you're still a relevant character.
- Got to love seeing that little jerk Envy in pain, that much I'll admit.
- Oh, we're going to end here, huh? Guess everyone will have to wait another week to see the conclusion of this part!

I gripe, but it wasn't that bad an episode. I just really have issues with this section of the manga.
Vlyse
-No Name Character Awesomeness
-Izumi's OVA!! Woot!
-Envy looked good, actually, in his true form.
-Didn't expect them to end there.
-And, the biggest surprise of all....that one Ishval scene in the preview, didn't see that coming!

This episode was nice, especially with all the facial expressions, but between a little too much anticipation and how they split up the fight between this episode and the next like Briggs vs Sloth, it wasn't as good as the last two episodes for me.

And I'm still not sure what to make of the cliffhanger from an anime-only perspective. It seems Envy could be either Roy or Riza, if it wasn't for Envy's grin at the end upon spotting Riza. And they kept the dialogue, so that nearly all signs point to Envy being disguised as Roy. But, then, Riza points her gun, so you'd think she's Envy. Never mind the preview.

As I said, I'm surprised they're bringing back Ishval. Why would they now? They didn't when Kimblee and Winry were in the car in the north. Bones seems to be confident they can add this kind of stuff in addition to the recent slow pacing, and still animate everything in the later chapters that get even longer.

Envy's VA was amaazing, especially as Gracia. It's too bad we have to trade Envy in the english dub to get a (what I think) are better Roy and Riza voices.
Michiyo-
- Poor Mrs. Bradley. She doesn't know what's going around.
- Now she knows.
- The guys at the radio station really enjoy the situation.
- Aww, Denny finally realized that Maria is alive.
- The Briggs tank is here!
- Roy likes teasing Riza. smile.gif And he likes to act very cool.
- I hate Envy.
- And now Roy is angry.
- So Tales of the master gaiden will be that unaired episode on the 9th DVD/BD.
- I really like the music.
- The Envy flamerape began.
- Awesome animation.
- What, it's already over? Loved this episode, and I want the next one now!
- Burn my back scene next week! I knew they'll put it in the next ep. biggrin.gif The preview looked great.


ETA: v Thanks for the screenshots, hilary! biggrin.gif
hilary
Here's some screenshot that I'd upload to my baidu photo album
(sorry for just posting the link below : p..orz)


http://hi.baidu.com/hilalchemist/album/fa%...C7%E5%BD%D8%88D
shanryelric
oh wow.great eps. too bad the keyhole froze up. -_____________-
can't say anything, just awesome, and WHAT? THEY USE ROYAI FOR CLIFF HANGER?? WHYYYYYYYYYYYY? TwT
the preview, is that right that next episode there will be that burn my back scene? -,-
Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Apr 18 2010, 02:30 AM) *
People Talking: Brotherhood! Be astounded by people talking amongst themselves while the plot is at a standstill! The DVD and Blu-Ray will have additional footage of NOTHING HAPPENING!

I remember my brother was turned off from watching Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex because the first scene he saw was multiple minutes of a single nonstop dialogue.

QUOTE (penguintruth @ Apr 18 2010, 02:30 AM) *
Oh, hey, let's waste more time with that homunculi army that make for completely uninteresting antagonists!

I liked the idea of the army, but in practice, it comes off as "Yeah, right, like any of our heroes would really be bitten to death by a stupid zombie!"

QUOTE (Michiyo- @ Apr 18 2010, 02:30 AM) *
So Tales of the master gaiden will be that unaired episode on the 9th DVD/BD.

You mean they're so desperate to keep people interested in the gaidens, they're referring to them as "unaired episodes" now? dry.gif
Vlyse
Maaaybe Tales of the Master will be as long as an episode? ..It could be. Should be.
penguintruth
QUOTE (Bag of Magic Food @ Apr 18 2010, 05:08 AM) *
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Apr 18 2010, 02:30 AM) *
People Talking: Brotherhood! Be astounded by people talking amongst themselves while the plot is at a standstill! The DVD and Blu-Ray will have additional footage of NOTHING HAPPENING!

I remember my brother was turned off from watching Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex because the first scene he saw was multiple minutes of a single nonstop dialogue.


I don't mind talky scenes, and it certainly suits GitS: SAC when they do that, but in the midst of this supposedly action-packed military coup, maybe they shouldn't linger so long at the happenings at the radio station.
Omni
Episode 53 Screenshots and Impressions
Flamez_Freak
those are some screen shots mate...thanks a million.....episode looks amazing from the screen shots....cant wait to watch it wen it comes out though...(i dont get keyhole, sadly)
hawkflame
QUOTE (Omni @ Apr 18 2010, 05:43 AM) *


Thanks for the screenshots! Mustang looks terrifyingly pissed there- even more than he was in the manga.

Anyone else amused by the timing of this episode and the Adult Swim broadcast? You have the murder of Hughes on Adult Swim and the revenge for said murder in the Japanese broadcast on the same weekend...
shanryelric
QUOTE (Omni @ Apr 18 2010, 04:43 PM) *

oh thanks a lot!! wow!! those are some cool pics!
Claudius
QUOTE (hawkflame @ Apr 18 2010, 03:59 AM) *
Anyone else amused by the timing of this episode and the Adult Swim broadcast? You have the murder of Hughes on Adult Swim and the revenge for said murder in the Japanese broadcast on the same weekend...
Didn't escape my head. What's also interesting is that four years apart, both versions of the Hughes murder premiered in America on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim at midnight on Saturday in April.

Envy-Gracia looks really creepy, but I felt Anime1 did the better Envy-Hughes.

Penguintruth does have a point about questioning this battle's necessity. Restoring Envy to his default form only to shortly lose it again reminds me of those Anime fillers shoehorned between manga continuity, breaking and then restoring the continuity (like Naruto's Sasuke suffering two mental breakdowns in the Anime because the writers wanted a little saga in between, or Dragon Ball Z's Ginyu Frog switching minds with Buruma only to go back to being a frog). It suggests that Envy was supposed to stay a tadpole. Did we really need a repeat of Roy OWNING a Homunculus? But I suppose Arakawa wanted some sort of Roy-Envy confrontation. Anime1 did not have that, since its version of Envy was built up to be Edward's adversary, and its probable that Arakawa wanted to have Roy deal with the 'revenge' issue, since Conqueror of Shamballa gave its own conclusion.

So why does Roy blame the trigger-pusher and not the order-maker (like he did in Anime1)? I suppose it has something to do with Roy's responsibility in Ishval. Yes, the Homunculus were to blame for starting the war, but Roy nevertheless committed horrible things when he could have refused. Thus, if Roy feels himself to be guilty of murder regardless of who ordered it, than Envy is equally guilty for killing Hughes, regardless of who ordered it.
deet-tastic
Oh man I so called that "burn my back" scene being attached to the episode where Riza confronts Mustang.
I saw that coming from miles away.

I can't watch the episode yet sad.gif
I will post my impressions in 4 hours. I HAD to come in and see screenshots though!
Mr. Deathy
Hmm, episode was really good in terms of art and animation and I wasn't "disappointed" but I have one complaint.

Just like I thought from reading the summaries, the battle is split over two eps which kind of takes away from the "epicness" of the scenes since if it was all in one completely action packed episode it would've been the most dramatic (aka all of chapter 94 in one ep). Also they didn't play a new track or in fact any recent new tracks during the fight scenes, which was a missed opportunity for me.

Anyway the art was still fantastic though and the animation at the end was great. I just wish they hadn't decided to end the episode there, but I knew it was coming when 54's summary still talked about Roy and Riza "overcoming traps".

I can't believe people like Penguintruth have a problem with this section of the manga, it makes so much sense to me it's unreal. There was nothing contrived about Envy coming back (the homonculus are powered by Philosopher's stones, there are tons of stones in central, all he needed was more and May is a naive little girl), Mustang had been set up throughout the ENTIRE SERIES to be his opponent ("Did you kill Maes Hughes" was asked at least 3 times prior to this fight) and it also serves as the perfect set up for Mustang to have (manga spoiler)One last chance to fight before the events that happen to him in the near future. Who else would his opponent have been for an end of series battle? Wrath? Scar or Greedling certainly made more sense for that fight. Pride? That just seems like a weird matchup.
Chiyo
PLEASE NOTE

Though many of you will know what is coming in the next episode can be avoid spoiling it for those who don't read the manga? I have edited posts in lieu of this, so please remember to post with care, or I'll use my flames of revenge!
Katya Martin
Denny's face when he realized who the voice on the radio belonged to was priceless.
Ooh... pretty spirals of fire... why did they stand there talking so long though?
...And then Envy was on fire. About time.
Roy, if your face sticks that way, the fangirls (and Hawkeye!) are never gonna forgive you...
Envy really fails at stop, drop, and roll.

Can't wait for next episode!

I thought that episode was pretty well-done overall, they got a lot of scenes right I think. Though of course I'm rather interested in the translation... I knew what was going on from the manga and understood a little of the dialogue, but the subtitles really help. xD The only reason I understand any Japanese at all is probably because of all the Fullmetal I've watched...
deet-tastic
Oh man that was amazing. They kept in my favorite joke!! biggrin.gif between Mustang and Riza at the beginning.

This ep did not dissapoint!
Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (Claudius @ Apr 18 2010, 06:46 AM) *
Restoring Envy to his default form only to shortly lose it again reminds me of those Anime fillers shoehorned between manga continuity, breaking and then restoring the continuity (like Naruto's Sasuke suffering two mental breakdowns in the Anime because the writers wanted a little saga in between, or Dragon Ball Z's Ginyu Frog switching minds with Buruma only to go back to being a frog). It suggests that Envy was supposed to stay a tadpole.

I like to call this the "Zero Sum Scene", and another type I like to point out is cutscenes in video games that don't affect what the player's about to face at all. For example, in MegaMan Battle Network 2, we start with MegaMan facing ShadowMan one-on-one. But then Dr. Hikari sends in a special cannon that will annihilate ShadowMan in one blast, but can only be used once. ShadowMan points out that if MegaMan misses, he'll destroy the invaluable Mother Computer core instead, but an injured ProtoMan shows up to pin ShadowMan to the spot with the last of his strength. Unfortunately, ShadowMan's minions beam in to intercept the blast of the cannon just as MegaMan fires, and ProtoMan is too weak to help anymore, so we end up with only MegaMan vs. ShadowMan in a fair fight... just as it would have been if this whole cutscene had never happened. Similarly, near the end of the game, MegaMan's walking through an empty corridor, and then he appears to have to fight his friends...
FailToImpress
Loved the episode!
-I like where they ended it, it'll give anyone who isn't familiar with the manga a nice little cliffhanger, although I did think that the preview for the next episode kinda gave it away a little.
-Mustang looked positively p***ed, there was no doubt at how angry he was.

Now I just have to wait, what, nearly a year to hear it in English!
A Pierrot's Aria
^I loved it too! Not long watched it subbed! biggrin.gif I also can't wait to hear it in English. It's so long a wait...xD

I love how they ended it, even if at first it seemed a little strange; for those who don't read the manga it's a choice between Roy or Riza that could truly be Envy at that point-- because of the suspect behaviour from both of them; Roy's easy acceptance of Riza's disobedience of his orders, or Riza's creepy grin and the fact she's pointing a gun at his head. I also loved the music at that part- especially the bit where he turns to face her, it sounded pretty creepy. xD

I also liked the bit where Envy transforms into Gracia and even his whole confession- it was awesomely animated and it got Envy's character down to a T, he truly is evil (and psychotic). I also like how while Roy is seething, Riza is looking away as though she's trying to keep her composure yet looks thoroughly sickened by what she's hearing. And she probably knows how Roy must be feeling, too.

I also think the amount of times they say "Mustang" in a single scene also hit record numbers. *shot*

I really can't wait until the next episode!
Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (A Pierrot's Aria @ Apr 18 2010, 03:21 PM) *
I love how they ended it, even if at first it seemed a little strange; for those who don't read the manga it's a choice between Roy or Riza that could truly be Envy at that point-- because of the suspect behaviour from both of them; Roy's easy acceptance of Riza's disobedience of his orders, or Riza's creepy grin and the fact she's pointing a gun at his head.

Just what I thought. At first I thought Riza was Envy about to get the drop on Roy, but then I realized it could be the other way around, with Envy taking out Riza to give Roy one less ally, since Roy didn't actually use his alchemy at that moment. You're right that Riza pointing the gun leads the viewer to believe Riza is Envy, but the fact that they're setting up this belief right at the end of the episode leads me to suspect that it's a trick and neither of them is Envy. Can't be too trusting after they fooled us into thinking Zampano was helping Envy!

Of course, this only reminds me of how episode 49 failed at its own suspenseful misdirection cliffhanger thanks to the next episode preview. Yeah, we were so scared there for like 5 seconds, and then we clearly saw that the group hadn't really been shot. This is why Adult Swim removing the previews for TV won't always be a bad thing.


QUOTE (A Pierrot's Aria @ Apr 18 2010, 03:21 PM) *
I also liked the bit where Envy transforms into Gracia and even his whole confession- it was awesomely animated and it got Envy's character down to a T, he truly is evil (and psychotic).

I'm considering pranking some viewers of the English dub by taking a screencap of that scene and claiming that Gracia was Envy's true form all along. But that might be a little too mean. cool.gif
black~hayate
QUOTE (deet-tastic @ Apr 18 2010, 09:03 PM) *
Oh man that was amazing. They kept in my favorite joke!! biggrin.gif between Mustang and Riza at the beginning.

This ep did not dissapoint!


What was your favorite joke?
Cause it seemed to me like they missed the "your tears I want to see them again" scene. Or was that the fact that I don't understand Japanese? So was it there or wasn't ?
FailToImpress
QUOTE (Bag of Magic Food @ Apr 18 2010, 10:43 PM) *
I'm considering pranking some viewers of the English dub by taking a screencap of that scene and claiming that Gracia was Envy's true form all along. But that might be a little too mean. cool.gif


Hahaha, oh lord. laugh.gif But Elicia gives at all away! Unless she's involved too... hmm.

A Pierrot's Aria: Yeah, I forgot to mention that bit about Riza looking away, that was a nice touch.
Tian Ai
QUOTE
I also liked the bit where Envy transforms into Gracia and even his whole confession- it was awesomely animated and it got Envy's character down to a T, he truly is evil (and psychotic). I also like how while Roy is seething, Riza is looking away as though she's trying to keep her composure yet looks thoroughly sickened by what she's hearing. And she probably knows how Roy must be feeling, too.

Perriot's Aria - I loved this part, too. I felt it was very well done, built up suspense/horror/upsetness.
And it truly confirms that Envy is, indeed, a complete arse.
The ending makes me curious to see what would have happened had it been vice versa - if Riza was Envy. Oh boy...


QUOTE
What was your favorite joke?
Cause it seemed to me like they missed the "your tears I want to see them again" scene. Or was that the fact that I don't understand Japanese? So was it there or wasn't ?

black~hayate - They did include the joke ^^ But it's not that nice because their expressions don't change much from being serious, so it's hard to tell they're joking. In the manga Riza had a tiny blush going, while his expression was poking fun at her. tongue.gif
Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Apr 18 2010, 04:12 PM) *
But Elicia gives at all away! Unless she's involved too... hmm.

I'll have the entire Hughes family suspected of being homunculi before I'm through! biggrin.gif
Vicious74
QUOTE (A Pierrot's Aria @ Apr 18 2010, 10:21 PM) *
I also liked the bit where Envy transforms into Gracia and even his whole confession- it was awesomely animated and it got Envy's character down to a T, he truly is evil (and psychotic). I also like how while Roy is seething, Riza is looking away as though she's trying to keep her composure yet looks thoroughly sickened by what she's hearing. And she probably knows how Roy must be feeling, too.


Yesss awesome scene is awesome. Envy's more than happy to confess his evil deeds (see my avatar) and this time was just as deliciously twisted as the Ishval one inside Gluttony's stomach.

It's moments like that that make watching him squirm in pain and suffering at the hand of berserk Roy's flames so satisfying.

Speaking of which, my props go to Minami Takayama in this episode. Absolutely amazing performance. I'm truly sorry for those who only watch the English dub and will miss out on it and have to settle for Envy's cringeworthy English VA. And also props to Shinichiro Miki, who should be even more impressive next episode with the great scenes Roy has in store for him.
EveningAlchemist
The anticipation this episode builds up in the beginning killed me! All of us manga readers knew what was coming...
Totally love how Roy was made up as some sort of hero in the people's eyes right before...

Once again, Roy Mustang's rescue/entrance of flaming glory kicks butt! (And reduces freakish zombies to ash!) Envy entrance is not quite so posh. But his evil giggle's were oh-so-perfect! The animation on Envy was great too. It's great how it was distorted and terrifying.

The image of Roy burning Hughes is a very vivid one... and how he was able to torture Envy... it's shows how strongly Roy felt all this time. It surprised me because I was used to anime1 where he cried and then forgot about it, but this is a true conflict of the madness of revenge. Roy is a person that takes things deeply to heart, since Ishbal left him with such deep scars, and I'm, errr, glad this anime manages to show how painful his idealism can be. Umm, is it okay that I feel like crying with all this emotion? crybaby.gif

Isn't it kind of ironic that this episode and the english dub of Hughes death are shown in the same week?
deet-tastic
^ I am of the opinion that it was on purpose. I mean.. come on. It HAS to be on purpose. Either that or it's the largest coincidence in anime history.

I have always loved the manga panel of Riza looking away.
I'm so glad Brotherhood included it.
http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/93/43/
zonkiethegreat
Wow, I thought the whole radio broadcast was great and really charged up the episode, by displaying a lot of varying degrees of emotions from the actual people who live in Central! I also loved seeing Havoc a couple times! biggrin.gif

As for the rest of the episode....what can I say?? I'm HUGE sucker for Roy Mustang, and this episode did not disappoint me at all!! The art direction was superb, and they really displayed Roy's power at its full potential here! Especially when he fried all those "zombies'. I was also one of the many who were surprised at where they ended it!

All in all I felt this episode was just one great piece of art right after the other, it was just all so fluid and well crafted!

Like when Envy transformed into Gracia Hughes....wow...it just gave me chills! It was BETTER THEN THE MANGA! (first time i say that!)

Here are two clips which I found to be just...*sigh* ....BEAUTIFUL! you never really see Roy in these angles, so I thought they were great!





Oh yeah...and how about that SUPER P***ED OFF ROY??? JEBUS!

FMAobsessed
I could just kick myself for getting so far behind in Brotherhood. At least the screenshots look amazing.
Vagrant
Was I the only one who thought the art was really weird?
A lot of Roy and Envy faces looked really odd to me.

I presume it's partially to pad the episodes out, but there are some bizarre changes from the manga again.

The radio scene was kinda stupidified with the laughing guys in the background of the supposed hostage situation. In the manga, everyone was just chilling.
I also preferred Denny's reaction with just the eyes as opposed to a huge smile. It just seemed more fitting.
There was the way Envy and Mei dropped down, made more sense in the manga to me.
And in the conversation with Envy and co, it (Roy in particular) were nowhere near as dry as that.

I know this sounds like a nitpick but I've gone on before about this stuff with Envy being very cathartic. So I really wanted to make the burnination have impact, like the sound effects should've been much louder or...Something.

So, yeah.
Oh, I missed the credits and the 'next time on' part, by the way. Did I miss anything good?
Jealous Rogo
I like that teh anime has decided to emphasise the discord amongst the citizens of Ametris a bit more, the manga did it teh same but I think the music and extra scenes really, really helped here.

Of course the main focus of this week is on Mustang's stuff.

First off, THANK YOU Bones for changing 'burning their legs off' to 'reducing them to ash' that makes so much more sense.

I loved some fo teh animation and artwork in this episode, parts of it in places seemed more like I was watching Gainax or Gurren Laagan than FMA.

And I have to say Envy's voice actress did a fantastic job, she's always done great at making Envy's more sadistic scenes sound great but what really was fantastic this week were her screams. They felt real and made watching this episode fantastic.

Can't wait for next week.
Flamez_Freak
The fluidity of movements durin extreme action scenes is somethin i admire so much in this anime . . For example

bradley versus greed
roy versus lust
that short battle between lin and envy
greedlin versus wrath
pride and kimblee versus al
and now this smile.gif smile.gif
awesome stuff , it gives more intensity to the scenes and makes it look gorgeous . . .



Broken Chouchou
Pretty good episode. Not great. But pretty good.

@Vagrant - I'm with you, I thought Roy did look odd in some places. And yeah, I would also have liked the flaming sound effects to be a little louder and more.... crispifying XD I would have liked hearing the bastards skin deep fry. This wasn't anything too special or, as you say, impactful. But hey, we're not done yet.

The music when Roy went into rage mode wasn't the best fitting song for me. It worked, I guess, but I would have liked something different.
starkast
Really good epi after being behind like 13 episodes laugh.gif.
RoyxRizaFan
To claudius, penguintruth, and everyone who thinks this battle had no meaning: As stated before, this battle was forshadowed to ever since Hughe's death, waaay back when Roy first felt the spark of vengenance. Honestly, Envy being tricked to come to Marcoh for HIM to toss him around was the REAL pointless scene, if either of them had to be, because it did little for the plot, and all it did was make Marcoh look cool. This battle, on the other hand, has been hinted at since, like, volume four, and had a huge impact on Roy's character, and how he has to not only overcome outer conflicts, but inner ones as well to make a good leader, as well as showing even more depth to Roy and Riza's relationship (and I don't mean this romantically, thank you) and tying it what it meant for her to make him a flame alchemists, and her promise to shoot him if he ever strayed off his path. All these things and more were important for this battle, while all the Marcoh one did was show how cool alchemy can be, or whatever, and seperating Mei from the group. If there's one of the fights we could have done without, it could have been that one. Everything we learned from it only worked towards Envy's return, so he could fight Roy.

So yes, this battle IS important to the plot, and to the characters involved, and was hinted at from the very beginning of the series, and throughout it since, and will have a huge impact on Roy and the future of Amestria.
ShadowCat17
I think they kind of messed up the shots of Mustang and Riza at the end when they were pointing their respective weapons at each other. The manga expressions were better

You can compare them:
http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/94/34/

http://hi.baidu.com/hilalchemist/album/fa%...C7%E5%BD%D8%88D

Overall the episode didn't disappoint
Tian Ai
QUOTE
It surprised me because I was used to anime1 where he cried and then forgot about it, but this is a true conflict of the madness of revenge. Roy is a person that takes things deeply to heart, since Ishbal left him with such deep scars, and I'm, errr, glad this anime manages to show how painful his idealism can be. Umm, is it okay that I feel like crying with all this emotion? crybaby.gif

And Roy has always been established as having an extremely weak spot for his teammates, too. This episode got to me too, when he was going berserk. We never see that side of Roy! The anime did it pretty well. I'm glad they didn't understate his... psycho fit? o.O


QUOTE
So yes, this battle IS important to the plot, and to the characters involved, and was hinted at from the very beginning of the series, and throughout it since, and will have a huge impact on Roy and the future of Amestria.

Hehe sounds like an essay thesis! biggrin.gif But I couldn't agree more. It's very significant and relates Roy and Scar on a deeper level, and finally ties together the Hughes-Revenge mission.


But as epic as the episode was, I snorted a little bit when I saw this: http://hi.baidu.com/hilalchemist/album/ite...cab211c7e8.html
ShadowCat17
I do wish they had left the part about Envy realizing that Roy does his pinpoint attacks with one hand, and large explosions with the other. It didn't quite have the same effect with Roy just saying that he has pinpoint accuracy.
Claudius
Hold it, I was just trying to open my mind a little to other people's views. I felt Penguintruth did have some points (Marcoh did need his moment of atonement, and Roy already killed one Homunculus), even though I wasn't entirely in agreement with him/her. If you noticed, I did question Penguintruth's criticism about Roy going after the order-taker rather than the order-maker (like he did in Anime1).

Anyway, what interests me most of Roy's revenge- whether its against Bradley in Anime1 or Envy in the manga- is that:

Man, Roy must have loved Maes Hughes very much.

With exception to Riza Hawkeye, Maes Hughes is probably the only person Roy Mustang ever truly loved (Not that way!). I'm probably not exaggerating that Hughes was a major factor in making Roy the man he is (as best friends usually are). In the manga, Hughes' optimism to survive during Ishval probably kept Roy from blowing his brains out (With Hughes' absence in Anime1's Ishbal war showing Roy, well, almost blowing his brains out). In Anime1, when Roy was probably at his lowest point- isolated in his room working on human transmutation- it was the presence of Hughes that brought a smile to the haggard alchemist's face, probably for the first time in years. Hughes helped Roy climb up to the ranks, steering him to the right path (with his absence probably throwing Roy into some wrong paths; Hughes would have vetoed the Blackmail plot). No matter how much the guy bugged him with his many phonecalls or pictures of Elysia, Roy was devoted to his friend. So Maes Hughes' death was probably the hardest blow he ever suffered. It left a gaping wound that can probably never be healed.
That he is capable of dropping everything he believes in to make his best friend's murderer pay- it's an expression of friendship love. True, revenge is not the right expression for it, but it is an honest expression nevertheless.
zonkiethegreat
QUOTE (Claudius @ Apr 19 2010, 09:38 PM) *
Anyway, what interests me most of Roy's revenge- whether its against Bradley in Anime1 or Envy in the manga- is that:

Man, Roy must have loved Maes Hughes very much.

With exception to Riza Hawkeye, Maes Hughes is probably the only person Roy Mustang ever truly loved (Not that way!).


Well if I were in Roy's shoes, and someone like Envy had murdered my best friend, especially the callously cold way he did it, I would unleash PURE HELL on them too.

Roy's character has always been very loyal to his comrades, he would've done the same for Havoc (i believe).
Vicious74
QUOTE (RoyxRizaFan @ Apr 19 2010, 10:48 PM) *
To claudius, penguintruth, and everyone who thinks this battle had no meaning: As stated before, this battle was forshadowed to ever since Hughe's death, waaay back when Roy first felt the spark of vengenance. Honestly, Envy being tricked to come to Marcoh for HIM to toss him around was the REAL pointless scene


THANK YOU!

The Marcoh fight was crap. A major antagonist being 'pwned' and ridiculed just so a minor guy who'd been pretty much a non-character, just a lump of misery and self-loathing, could have a 'cool' moment is just plain stupid. Doubly so because, as RoyxRizaFan explained, it made the REAL meaningful Envy fight that was to come lose some of its impact.
Claudius
QUOTE (Vicious74 @ Apr 19 2010, 09:20 PM) *
The Marcoh fight was crap. A major antagonist being 'pwned' and ridiculed just so a minor guy who'd been pretty much a non-character, just a lump of misery and self-loathing, could have a 'cool' moment is just plain stupid. Doubly so because, as RoyxRizaFan explained, it made the REAL meaningful Envy fight that was to come lose some of its impact.
You exaggerate MangaEnvy's position. In Anime1, he was a major antagonist, being- with Bradley- Darth Vader to Dante's Palantine (as well as signifying Edward's dark-side, the evil path not taken). In the Manga, Envy is relegated to Corporal Storm Trooper. For all his bluster and scary transformations, he's a poor combatant (as his battle with RanFan shows; Anime1Envy would have been a better match), he always underestimates the enemy, and gets OWNED by two Alchemists. Yeah, he started the Ishval War, but one gets the impression that this was a relatively easy job that Lust, Pride, and other Homunculus thought 'beneath their talents.' 'This is stupid! Let's get Envy to do this one! (the fact Anime1 had a different cause for the war makes MangaEnvy's achievement look even more pathetic). His only major part was killing Maes Hughes.
FailToImpress
QUOTE (Tian Ai @ Apr 19 2010, 11:44 PM) *
But as epic as the episode was, I snorted a little bit when I saw this: http://hi.baidu.com/hilalchemist/album/ite...cab211c7e8.html


Glad I wasn't the only one. laugh.gif That bit right at the end always gets me, they always pick the most random screenshot.
Flamez_Freak
And another thing i noticed from the preview , rearrangin Riza's 'Burn my back' scene from somewhere in the weakly done ishbal flashback to a part of the series , which has been excellently developed by bones is praiseworthy . . . And i think its gonna have more impact now . . . .
Jealous Rogo
QUOTE (Claudius @ Apr 20 2010, 04:36 AM) *
QUOTE (Vicious74 @ Apr 19 2010, 09:20 PM) *
The Marcoh fight was crap. A major antagonist being 'pwned' and ridiculed just so a minor guy who'd been pretty much a non-character, just a lump of misery and self-loathing, could have a 'cool' moment is just plain stupid. Doubly so because, as RoyxRizaFan explained, it made the REAL meaningful Envy fight that was to come lose some of its impact.
You exaggerate MangaEnvy's position. In Anime1, he was a major antagonist, being- with Bradley- Darth Vader to Dante's Palantine (as well as signifying Edward's dark-side, the evil path not taken). In the Manga, Envy is relegated to Corporal Storm Trooper. For all his bluster and scary transformations, he's a poor combatant (as his battle with RanFan shows; Anime1Envy would have been a better match), he always underestimates the enemy, and gets OWNED by two Alchemists. Yeah, he started the Ishval War, but one gets the impression that this was a relatively easy job that Lust, Pride, and other Homunculus thought 'beneath their talents.' 'This is stupid! Let's get Envy to do this one! (the fact Anime1 had a different cause for the war makes MangaEnvy's achievement look even more pathetic). His only major part was killing Maes Hughes.


Yeah MangaEnvy is the middle child of the Homunculus, he's above Gluttony and Sloth and give them orders, but he's constantly being put in his place by Wrath and Pride, his superiors. Case and point, go back and read the Manga (cause the anime left it out) and see what Envy's opinion of Pride is. He friggin hates the guy. Envy hates the fact that others can order him around.

If we go by the TV Tropes definition of the group of villaisn; Anime1Envy is the Dragon but in Manga... Envy's the Trickster at best.

On top of that, the ENTIRE POINT OF ENVY'S CHARACTER is that's he's an arrogant little sociopath who believes himself to not only be superior to humans, but also believes them to be insects and toys for his own amusement. So what happens when Marcoh, one of his toys, stands up to him? He gets taken down a few pegs and gets the just desserts he'd had coming to him for a while. That's why the Marcoh fight has a point.

THIS fight is about Mustang, with Envy just being his target in the end. This is about the fact that Mustang has lost sight of what his goal actually is. He sees Envy and instantly forgest that he's supposed to be trying to stablise the country and protect his loved ones, all he cares about is revenge. Envy, on the other hand, is humiliated once more, but this time in a different way. While the first time was about Envy's toys biting him in the arse, this time it's about Envy's callous disregard of human life coming back to bite him in the arse. You can tell Envy pretty much forgot about Hughes and didn't even give it two thoughts.

Flamez_Freak
Like jealous rogo pointed out , both fights are important . . And the similarity between both fights is that envy gets humiliated in both of them . . . . And i have to admit , power and authority wise , envy is below pride and wrath . . . He's on lust's level , ( only authority wise though . He'd own lust if they are pitted against each other) .
Another point of envy's character is projected during marco's fight , although he hates and despises humans , he falls down to such a level that he'd do anythin to survive (try to take over the weakest of humans , yoki , to survive )
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