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FMAobsessed
Okay the fact that Riza and the other chimeras are moving more slowly because two are injured and the other two have to carry them makes sense. I was just confused because I thought for a second that Mei was the only one who could break into Father's Lair.
angelofsarcasm89
I just had a thought. If the chimeras were created using regular alchemy, what if Father can control them? blink.gif
FMAobsessed
@angelofsarcasm89: Oooh, that would be interesting. Does Father control the other chimeras that have attacked Scar and Mei before in the sewers?
Katya Martin
QUOTE (black~hayate @ Dec 14 2009, 04:38 PM) *
Wait. You mean while they were in Gluttony, right?
They paid with Envy's stored-energy-souls. And when Ed was terribly wounded, he paid with his energy. Didn't he said something like "blabla some life energy blabla some years of my life"?


Oh, right... sorry, forgot that bit. Anyway my main point there was that attempted resurrection isn't the only way through the Gate; I just got off on a tangent.

QUOTE (angelofsarcasm89 @ Dec 14 2009, 09:20 PM) *
I just had a thought. If the chimeras were created using regular alchemy, what if Father can control them? blink.gif


I assume you're referring to the humanoid chimeras who are (currently) on the good side; I don't know that he could control them, since they're originally human and still have free will. Though I wonder if he could separate them into their original components... that would not go well for anyone, I think... The other issue with Father controlling the chimeras is whether his mind really has that sort of "parallel-processing" power; granted, he is inhuman and has had a whole bunch of other beings bouncing around inside of him for half of forever, but I don't know that he could control several bodies besides his own in cooperation, as well as doing, well, whatever it is he means to do with the sacrifices.

QUOTE (FMAobsessed @ Dec 14 2009, 10:50 PM) *
@angelofsarcasm89: Oooh, that would be interesting. Does Father control the other chimeras that have attacked Scar and Mei before in the sewers?


I don't think he directly controls them; it seems like they're just trained to attack anything that isn't with a homunculus, and it would be tedious to directly control them all the time just for that (or even as soon as they sensed someone). It's never stated that he controls them, at least, and I think Mei would have freaked out a lot more upon sensing them if they were under his control; she'd probably be able to tell.
Fullmetal666
So if and when Al gets his body back, will it go back to the way it was before him and Ed tried to bring back there Mom, or will it be skinny and look like it did in this chapter?
archronos
QUOTE (Fullmetal666 @ Dec 14 2009, 10:39 PM) *
So if and when Al gets his body back, will it go back to the way it was before him and Ed tried to bring back there Mom, or will it be skinny and look like it did in this chapter?

sky and sickly, afterall if he didn't then rejecting his body would be kinda pointless now wouldn't it?
Katya Martin
It's been pretty well established that Al's body is his actual age, but massively malnourished. That's what he'll be getting back, I'm pretty sure; de-aging him would make no sense. When he gets his body back, the first thing he's doing is spending a good long time in the hospital... tongue.gif
FMAobsessed
Al will need some serious medical attention when he gets his body back. He will also need a cheeseburger. But even though there is the theory that Ed eats for Al, how long can a body go without actually having food or water? And is it realistic to have Al still be alive in the gate?
Katya Martin
I guess it depends on the amount of nourishment is being transferred from Ed. Ed doesn't eat nearly enough for two people; he also doesn't appear undernourished, though he doesn't seem to be growing much. -hides from the Ed-Rampage- I'd say Ed's getting maybe eighty, ninety percent of what he needs from all the food he eats. It also seems like the transfer isn't particularly efficient. I think Al ends up getting the bare minimum for survival, though; the human body can survive for a surprising amount of time (really miserable time, though) on small amounts of sustenance.

If, however, the "Ed eats for Al" theory turns out false (which I doubt) then science dictates that Al's body died something on the order of three days after ending up at the Gate. I doubt it'll be proven entirely false, though.

I would also not rule out some weirdo function of the Gate keeping Al from dying. Bizarre thing that it is, who knows what it might do.
Hyperthia
If the Gate is the thing keeping Al alive, he's just gonna go klunk when he get his body back to the outside world. *cringe*
Fullmetal666
If Ed really does eat for two then something tells me that Al might end up being as short as Ed.
C'mon Ed drink some milk for Al's sake. You do want him to have strong bones right Ed?
Animeoldtimer
I must admit I haven't read all the posts here yet so please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious or it has been already said. It just occurred to me that this scene from chapter 39 was actually a foreshadowing for the current chapter:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/39/38/

Arakawa is quite clever!

In other parts of the chapter, I got a little chuckle when Ed picked up Roy by the ankle to examine him. Also, Father is looking chubby a bit like Gluttony.
Katya Martin
QUOTE (Animeoldtimer @ Dec 15 2009, 12:52 PM) *
Also, Father is looking chubby a bit like Gluttony.


He certainly has taken a turn for the freaky. Though it's not too surprising, seeing as he's absorbed Hohenheim.
RoyxRizaFan
Al's going to go from being huge to tiny! His armor body is gigantic, and his human body is weak and extremely skinny. That's going to be hard to get used to... Perhaps he'll return to Resembool after he retrieves his body so that Winry and Pinako can help nurse him back to health, like they do with Ed and their other automail patients.
Cece
QUOTE (Animeoldtimer @ Dec 15 2009, 02:52 PM) *
I must admit I haven't read all the posts here yet so please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious or it has been already said. It just occurred to me that this scene from chapter 39 was actually a foreshadowing for the current chapter:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/39/38/

Arakawa is quite clever!

In other parts of the chapter, I got a little chuckle when Ed picked up Roy by the ankle to examine him. Also, Father is looking chubby a bit like Gluttony.


Wow that crazy! I didn't even remember that line until now. Arakawa is definitely clever.
heartwing713
I also noticed this scene that hints toward Roy's blindness.

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/61/34/

I love this scene, and I always thought it really sums up Roy and his dreams. When I saw Roy was blind, the first thing I thought of was this scene.
The_Twilight_Trinity
QUOTE (heartwing713 @ Dec 15 2009, 07:57 PM) *
I also noticed this scene that hints toward Roy's blindness.

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/61/34/

I love this scene, and I always thought it really sums up Roy and his dreams. When I saw Roy was blind, the first thing I thought of was this scene.


Ooh... I didn't think about that scene as foreshadowing, but I think that you're onto something there for sure! Mostly I just thought of Lust's last words in regards to Roy's fate. I had actually been waiting for awhile for something to come of that final speech, and I kinda thought that the Envy Battle/Riza Being Nearly Killed scenes were what was foreshadowed, but this makes sooo much more sense.
Katya Martin
I actually think Lust was referring more to Riza's (expected) death than Roy losing his vision; we don't know how well she could have predicted his Gate toll for one, and killing Riza was a part of the eventual plan (thank goodness it didn't happen.) Lust would have been fairly sure of that, and of his reaction.

As for the "looking past me" line, I don't think that quite foreshadows it either; it's referring more to the fact that Roy's vision for the future extends beyond simply taking over the military, but extends to completely reforming the country. I'd be careful about taking every reference to Roy's vision/eyes as foreshadowing for this scene; that could be stretching analysis a bit too far.
Gukumatz
QUOTE (Katya Martin @ Dec 15 2009, 11:38 PM) *
I'd be careful about taking every reference to Roy's vision/eyes as foreshadowing for this scene; that could be stretching analysis a bit too far.


I agree with this. I know that people are trying to find interesting clues since Arakawa likes to foreshadow, but I doubt that Lust knew exactly what would happen to Roy or (even if Lust didn't know) that Arakawa meant to hint to Roy's Gate toll so early on. I believe that Lust simply wanted Roy to suffer generally and was happy about that. She was trying to unnerve him before she died.
Ropespinner
Lust wasn't foreshadowind Roy's fate with her last words; Arakawa was foreshadowing it with Lust's last words.
hawkflame
QUOTE (Ropespinner @ Dec 16 2009, 06:29 AM) *
Lust wasn't foreshadowind Roy's fate with her last words; Arakawa was foreshadowing it with Lust's last words.


Exactly. Arakawa has always said she's had the ending in mind for some time; this just bring s a lot of credence to that.

There are enough references to "vision" with regard to Roy that it does seem like foreshadowing.
heartwing713
QUOTE
I also noticed this scene that hints toward Roy's blindness.

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/61/34/

I love this scene, and I always thought it really sums up Roy and his dreams. When I saw Roy was blind, the first thing I thought of was this scene.


Let me clarify a little. When I said this earlier, I was referring more to this as a hint of how Roy's vision for the country is such a big part of his personality, and the fact that Fuhrer Bradley noticed his determined eyes (as well as Lust later on), and therefore as foreshadowing of what the gate would take.
Elle-chan
I cried-.-
heartwing713
QUOTE (Elle-chan @ Dec 16 2009, 07:11 PM) *
I cried-.-


Because of Roy or because of my post?
archronos
QUOTE (Animeoldtimer @ Dec 15 2009, 11:52 AM) *
I must admit I haven't read all the posts here yet so please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious or it has been already said. It just occurred to me that this scene from chapter 39 was actually a foreshadowing for the current chapter:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/39/38/

Arakawa is quite clever!

In other parts of the chapter, I got a little chuckle when Ed picked up Roy by the ankle to examine him. Also, Father is looking chubby a bit like Gluttony.

Yep, when I read Father's line in chapter 102 I immediately thought of Lust's final words to Roy. I love it when stories reference previous events, though it makes me sad knowing that Arakawa had Roy doomed from the start.
Gukumatz
QUOTE (Ropespinner @ Dec 16 2009, 04:29 AM) *
Lust wasn't foreshadowind Roy's fate with her last words; Arakawa was foreshadowing it with Lust's last words.


I knew what people meant and I accounted for that when I said (bold new):

QUOTE (Gukumatz @ Dec 16 2009, 12:52 AM) *
I know that people are trying to find interesting clues since Arakawa likes to foreshadow, but I doubt that Lust knew exactly what would happen to Roy or (even if Lust didn't know) that Arakawa meant to hint to Roy's Gate toll so early on.



QUOTE (hawkflame @ Dec 16 2009, 10:03 AM) *
There are enough references to "vision" with regard to Roy that it does seem like foreshadowing.


Insofar as you mean "vision" as in "dream for the future," I agree completely. I think Arakawa was leading up to the irony that Father points out in chapter 102, yes.

Insofar as people are saying "vision" as in "eyes," however, I don't agree at all. Arakawa makes no more references to Roy's eyes than she does to other characters' eyes. It's not just the Lust scene. Arakawa directly stresses eyes when she has Ed hear about the State Alchemists ("eyes lit with determination," ch 24). Scar clearly notices Ed's eyes when Ed jumps in front of Winry to protect her. Ed makes fun of Ling's eyes tons. Ed notes that Ran Fan went straight for his eyes when he made fun of Ling (ch 33). Arakawa mentions eyes in Ishbal when the soldiers, not just Roy, are said to develop "killer's eyes." Hawkeye has "eye" in her name and her eyes are mentioned a lot since she's a sniper.

I am not saying that Arakawa does not mention Roy's eyes. I am saying that it is stretching it to jump and say that all those references to Roy's eyes were foreshadowing for this one scene, which is what some fans are saying. To put it in a more scientific way, I do not think the mentions are statistically significant.

Now, if someone were to actually go through every mention of eyes in the manga and somehow test the null hypothesis ("Roy's eyes are mentioned just as much as other people's eyes") and find it wrong, I'd love you! Hahahaha. It would probably be a lot of work, though.

If this had happened to someone else, you can bet people would point to that character's eye mentions and say that it was major foreshadowing.

You can say that the Lust scene was minor foreshadowing, but I doubt even that. Lust's line was clearly about Roy's future torment, but not physical torment. I don't think anything about that scene hinted that Roy's eyes would be physically damaged in any way.
Tombow
^ Yeah, I think I agree with Katya Martin and Gukumatz on this. ^^ Gukumatz has kindly explained this quite eloquently above, and I tend to see this the same way. biggrin.gif But, I'm still open to the possibility of Arakawa-sensei leaving some other direct foreshadowing of this event somewhere in previous chapters. If anyone find the panel with such scene, by all means please post and share! (And, if possible, someone please post the corresponding raw page also so that we can actually check what exactly Arakawa-sensei wrote in the panel. ^^)
Hagaren_4ever
To me, it was pretty obvious what Lust meant with her dying words. She recognized Roy as a caring and emotional man. A man that lives for his comrades and not for himself. And she believed that one cannot live well with emotions like those, for she believed those feelings to bring anguish and hate when something goes wrong with the people you're connected to. To me, it seems that what she "foreshadowed" has already passed. When Roy went insane and tried to kill Envy. Remember the look in his eyes then? Pretty filled with anguish, right? They didn't even look the same, right? Yeah, that's what I thought.
KoolCat
@ Hagaren_4ever:Agreed.
Kokoriyu
This chapter tore me to peices. sad.gif

Al is such a caring idiot, I just really hope that it doesn't come back and take away what he's wanted after this fight is over! Looking back over the manga's main plot points, it still amazes me to no end how extensive and intricate Arakawa-sensei has made this! It all leads up to here. I wish it was January.

About Roy's eyesight...I am sure everyone here has heard it a thousand times. But that scene was just such a shocker for me, I was entirely blindsided. (then went back and watched some Brotherhood, noticed all the little foreshadowings and such and it just made it sadder..) I could almost see this battle ending in a giant fireball (though I really hope Arakawa-sensei wouldn't do something so self-sacrificial "I'm useless blind so here's a last minute death for you" :/)

As for if Roy gets his sight back or not by the end of the story, I really don't know. I want him to because he never even wanted to perform the transmutation. It wasn't an act of choice, he suffered consequence for an action outside his own freedom. But it is one of those things that we will just have to wait and see, as much as it pains us. All I am leaning on now is hope that he's going to survive at least. sad.gif This chapter was so beautifully written, but saddens me eternally as well.

(Seems some manga are doing everything I want them too, then FMA has such tragic plot twists!)
Katya Martin
I've got this nagging doubt that he won't be able to get his vision back from the Truth, but I wonder (as many others do) if alkahestry might help.

I kind of doubt we'll get the giant fireball; Roy's not going to let everything go (and this is also assuming that everyone else has died or GTFO'd, which is unlikely).

By the way, Kokoriyu, your avatar is hilarious. biggrin.gif
Kokoriyu
Perhaps. The most nagging thing to me is how Izumi explains how "Truth is cruel. But just." Then think about it--that punishment wasn't really just at all for Roy, since he had no control and was literally forced in front of the Gate to become a sacrifice. (Probably just clinging onto any condolences under the sun now for the poor Colonel, aww.)

I sure hope he won't go that far. He is a little bit of a hothead like Ed, in a moment like this his future is so unclear. Arakawa-sensei could go any which way at this point. Suspenseful, though maybe a little bit frustrating as well. Cliffhangers have never seemed crueler.

Thanks xD Glad you like it~
Sannom
QUOTE (FMAobsessed @ Dec 14 2009, 12:16 PM) *
I am wondering how Mei was able to break into Father's lair, but Riza and the chimeras weren't. Were they not behind Mei, heading in the same direction?


Like people said, Darius has to take care of Riza, and Zampano must keep an eye on his friend Gelso who's been injured pretty bad by Pride (although I thought his wounds were worse than what was shown here). Plus May has elixirology, the only alchemy known to be able to work against Father along with Scar's. And since Scar is busy with Bradley, it makes sense that May would dash for Father's lair and try to help the others.


QUOTE (Kokoriyu @ Dec 18 2009, 12:14 AM) *
Perhaps. The most nagging thing to me is how Izumi explains how "Truth is cruel. But just." Then think about it--that punishment wasn't really just at all for Roy, since he had no control and was literally forced in front of the Gate to become a sacrifice. (Probably just clinging onto any condolences under the sun now for the poor Colonel, aww.)


Well, I still believe that Izumi was right. That's make Pride's little operation all the scarier, because it means that he not only forced Roy to transmute Gold Tooth, he also fooled the Truth on Roy's intentions! And Truth seems to have a kind of omniscience power going on, so you have to wonder about the power of someone who is able to fool it!
Animeoldtimer
I like your idea that Truth was fooled by Pride, because I can't think of a justification either why Roy lost his sight.
mellulah
QUOTE (Kokoriyu @ Dec 17 2009, 11:14 PM) *
Perhaps. The most nagging thing to me is how Izumi explains how "Truth is cruel. But just." Then think about it--that punishment wasn't really just at all for Roy, since he had no control and was literally forced in front of the Gate to become a sacrifice. (Probably just clinging onto any condolences under the sun now for the poor Colonel, aww.)


He may have been forced to do the human transmutation but I think prehaps the punishment, and how it was just, was for the genocide in Ishbal. I know he didn't enjoy it and he was a soldier but there's a difference between war and killing hundreds of innocent civilians. Wether he was ordered to or not the fact that he killed that amount of people still stands.
heartwing713
Mellulah I think you might be on to something. Yes Roy was forced to do human transmutation, but he has done a lot of other things, like participating in Ishbal, and so he's not completely innocent. And, Sannom, I agree with you too, that maybe Pride could have fooled Truth in some way.

Maybe the Truth just governs the gate, and takes payment from whatever passes through. Maybe he doesn't have the discretion to judge people.
Katya Martin
Anyone think Truth is somehow connected to Father? Father and many of the homunculi have powers that resemble things inside the Gate; he has made attempts to control a Gate of his own as well. Seems like Truth might even be working with Father; if you look at the "tolls" it's taken from characters, it's never been anything lethal, but it's done things to help Father gain control of people. In chronological order: Izumi lost organs, not enough to kill her but enough to give her a crippling weakness that made her a little easier to control; Ed and Al lost limbs and body, which caused Ed to enter the military, bringing him into Father's reach, and equipping them with bodies that were stronger than normal in most ways, raising their chances of surviving on their own, but with easily exploitable weaknesses; now Roy's been blinded, which makes it a lot safer to go within attack range of him, because he can't use flame alchemy lest he hit an ally.

Also, are we really sure of the criteria for being a human sacrifice? At first glance, it looks like one only needs to have seen the Gate via human transmutation, but Marcoh doesn't seem to have ever done so, would probably need to be forced through the gate, and was being kept as a possible sacrifice. Hohenheim of course is just a weird case whatever rule we try to apply. Is it possible that there are more subtle rules as well-- rules that could throw a spanner in Father's plans? Izumi seems to be the only "standard" sacrifice; she's only done a single human transmutation, while Al's been through the Gate twice and Ed's been there even more (depending on which visits you count), Roy was pushed (and Pride might have screwed things up along the way), and Hohenheim is, well, Hohenheim, and we really don't know what all he's been up to. Is it possible that any of the sacrifices has some trait that will screw up Father's plans?
Disasterpiece
How will Mustang regain his eyesight

D=
angelofsarcasm89
QUOTE (Katya Martin @ Dec 19 2009, 11:30 PM) *
Also, are we really sure of the criteria for being a human sacrifice? At first glance, it looks like one only needs to have seen the Gate via human transmutation, but Marcoh doesn't seem to have ever done so, would probably need to be forced through the gate, and was being kept as a possible sacrifice.

I think the big thing is that they have to be strong enough to go through the gate and survive. Marcoh's a talented alchemist, but probably not strong enough to make the trip. They said awhile ago that Kimblee wouldn't work, because he wasn't brave enough. I think another thing that would have an effect is the person's determination to get back. Where I could see Marcoh being like "I've done horrible things, I deserve to die here. Take me, Truthy-kins." I imagine Roy more like "GTF OFF ME, I HAVE TO GET BACK NOW!"

Also, I'd really like to see more of Roy's trip through the gate.
black~hayate
QUOTE (angelofsarcasm89 @ Dec 20 2009, 08:04 PM) *
Also, I'd really like to see more of Roy's trip through the gate.


I'm sure this is gonna be an important key to something, something really interesting...
Of course it was left out on purpose wink.gif
Katya Martin
Right, right. We know it's possible to "bargain" with Truth to an extent (GIVE ME BACK MY BROTHER!!!) so it's probable that whatever Roy said to it will be relevant in the coming battle. I think he had some idea of what he was encountering because he knew that anyone who attempted human transmutation lost something in the process; he might have realized that it happened in the Gate, and said something to the Truth that will be important in the coming battle. (Though whatever exchange occurred, I would not put it past the Truth to have lied, so... yeah. Not to mention the inherent irony of that.)

Oh man, I can't wait for the next chapter...
Hagaren_4ever
Ugh, by the time the next chapter is out, the Winter break will be over, I'll back in school, and I'll be sixteen. Aaah, it seems so far away! >_<

I think Roy's trip to the gate will be shown next, and melodramatic Royai will show up too, so let's just sit tight, and TRY to enjoy the Holidays. laugh.gif
Katya Martin
Heh, this chapter came right when I gained a whole month of time to do very little. So I get to obsess over it all through break! tongue.gif

I don't know if 103 will flash us back to Roy's trip through the Gate; I think that might wait another chapter or so, to build up tension. Also, 103's bound to be full of plenty of other things, such as tying up loose ends with Wrath, so we may not get far enough into the impending sacrifices vs Father fight for whatever Roy encountered to become directly relevant.
Elle-chan
QUOTE (heartwing713 @ Dec 16 2009, 08:30 PM) *
QUOTE (Elle-chan @ Dec 16 2009, 07:11 PM) *
I cried-.-


Because of Roy or because of my post?

Both sadwalk.gif
zonkiethegreat
Ok Ok, heres a theory about Roy's loss of sight....READY??? This might blow your mind!!....MAYBE Arakawa just wants to give Roy some bad-arse sunglasses, so that she doesn't have to draw his eyes anymore???? eh??? I bet you didn't think of that!!! BOOYA!!! I NAILED IT!!! biggrin.gif

***I am joking of course. Even though Roy is supposedly the most difficult character for her to draw.****
Kisara
I don't think the next chapter will have Roy's encounter with the gate either. I hope that the fight between Scar and Bradley will end with a bang and that we'll get to see more of Greed and / or Ran Fan.

Ok, back to this chapter. Like many people, I also had a "stare at the screen with your eyes wide going 'OMGOMGOMGOMG....' " moment, but technically speaking, if the boys can get their bodies back, shouldn't Roy be able to get his sight back the same way? That is assuming that they do eventually get their bodies back.

By the way, where's Hohenheim gone to?
Hyperthia
QUOTE (Gukumatz @ Dec 16 2009, 11:15 PM) *
Insofar as people are saying "vision" as in "eyes," however, I don't agree at all. Arakawa makes no more references to Roy's eyes than she does to other characters' eyes. It's not just the Lust scene. Arakawa directly stresses eyes when she has Ed hear about the State Alchemists ("eyes lit with determination," ch 24). Scar clearly notices Ed's eyes when Ed jumps in front of Winry to protect her. Ed makes fun of Ling's eyes tons. Ed notes that Ran Fan went straight for his eyes when he made fun of Ling (ch 33). Arakawa mentions eyes in Ishbal when the soldiers, not just Roy, are said to develop "killer's eyes." Hawkeye has "eye" in her name and her eyes are mentioned a lot since she's a sniper.

Heh... What if just everyone went blind? Or got their eyeballs sucked out...
Eyes are definitely a common theme in this series.
heartwing713
QUOTE (Hyperthia @ Dec 30 2009, 02:49 PM) *
Heh... What if just everyone went blind? Or got their eyeballs sucked out...
Eyes are definitely a common theme in this series.


LAWL. I'm imagining a fight between a blind Scar and a blind Bradley.
hand-made-city
QUOTE (Kisara @ Dec 30 2009, 06:49 PM) *
By the way, where's Hohenheim gone to?


Hohenheim got sucked up into Father's body, last time we saw him.... Father's got a pot belly now. XD
Kisara
QUOTE (hand-made-city @ Dec 31 2009, 03:57 AM) *
QUOTE (Kisara @ Dec 30 2009, 06:49 PM) *
By the way, where's Hohenheim gone to?


Hohenheim got sucked up into Father's body, last time we saw him.... Father's got a pot belly now. XD


Ohhh, right. Didn't notice that, just wen't back and checked. Thanks.
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