I think that having all of the Ishbal moments spaced out throughout the series is a huge mistake. Telling it all in one story arc really allows the material to sink in and you can invest yourself in the reality of that war.

And furthermore, some of the moments that were removed would not make sense without the context of the scenes that -were- in the episode, and vice versa. Mustang's resolve towards the end to protect as many people as possible is really most powerful when the viewer has really seen and appreciated the hell that is the entire Ishbal story before it.

Some of the stuff that I really liked that were removed:

Armstrong letting two Ishbalan survivors escape , who then promptly get blown up by Kimbley.

Rounding up Amestrian soldiers of Ishbalan descent, and the military using them, their own comrades, to create the first philosopher's stones.

Everything about Winry's parents, which gave them a sympathetic human face before being killed.

The moment near the end where Mustang's basically ashamed of being considered a hero.

The scene at the Ishbalan child's grave, and the moment when Hawkeye asks Roy to burn the secrets of flame alchemy tattooed on her back.

Should have been at LEAST two, preferably three episodes.

particually since we didnt see Riza asking Roy to burn her back when a) thats in the opening and the whole scar on her back isnt otherwise explained, sais to me that we're gonna get more ishbal, we've allready had shattered flashbacks in previous episodes, so theres nothing to say that we won't get more in later eps, particually since about half the opening is ishbal, that seems kinda rich if it was just gonna be one ep

That may be true, but having it dispersed like that makes the whole story much less powerful. I felt the weight on everyone's shoulders as they were experiencing it, because of the way it was told.

And the scenes that -were- included were done so quickly and without proper context. When in the manga Roy resolved to become furher to protect as many people as he can, the frustration, disillusionment, and eventually focus on his part were palpable, due partially to the scene itself being much stronger and more emotional in the manga, and due partually to the fact that it came after a pretty powerful experience for us the reader and Roy himself.

("'HERO'? I'm a FAILURE!!" Love that moment...)

Really good episode. Some adaptation mistakes, some missed things - maybe. But emotionally intense, musically great and still telling an awesome story. I hope that the soundtrack comes out soon.

The scene with young Roy and Riza, the conversation of Edward and Riza (minus the failed humourus 'I do not love Winry' stuff), those psychedelic war sequences, the insanity of Kimbley - it made it worthwile. As always, can't wait for the next one.

I'm not sure if it's just me being unobservant, but err... Arakawa hasn't mentioned the tattoo since volume 15... right? I know she done an omake with the tattoo mentioned, but I don't recall a conversation about it explaining it properly, maybe she's saving it fo chapters not out yet o.o ... *goes to reread*
But the anime didn't exactly highlight the fact that Roy learnt his flame alchemy from Riza, or that he crushed her back... Ahh, ignore that.



Yeah, and (hopefully) there'll be more Ishval scenes (like the Riza/Roy ones, etc) because people who haven't read the manga won't know the scene in the OP was the Roy/Riza scene... Hmm, the thing is... how on earth are they gonna put flashbacks only Riza and Roy know into future episodes? Does this mean Riza and Edward will have another chat... or will Roy remenisce about Ishval while gazing fondly at Riza?

I wish that they could have left more in from volume 15. But I hope that they will have more flashbacks if they fit into the episodes.

Did anyone else notice the fact that Roy's alchemy glove made a sound effect whenever he put it on in that episode?

Perhaps it was the tremendous expectations I had for this episode, but I was greatly disappointed by this episode. A brief list of all the important things left out.
- Roy and Riza's meeting in Ishval
- Dr. Knox's brief conversation with Dr. Marcoh
- Basque Grand killing his corrupt commanding officer
- The soldiers under Roy's commando who latter return to help in his coup
- Armstrongs emotional breakdown
- Kimbley killing his superior officers
- The rumors surrounding the Rockbells
- The induction of Roy's subordinates
- And perhaps the most important one of all, Riza asking Roy to destroy her back as well as the explaination for her tattoo (feel free to remind me of any I miss)

All in all I'd say this was my least favorite episode so far (recap episode notwithstanding). It wasn't just my own hype but the poor way in which the material was handled. The series has done a relatively good job at condensing chapters in the manga to fit into a single animated episode but here is case where it simply couldn't and shouldn't have been done. What we have here are what are arguably the 5 best and most important chapters in the series. It's simply a shame to see the source material receive such a poor adaptation, hopefully this isn't repeated.

Didn't you see him crying behind the wall he created? Also, they showed his breakdown in a previous episode as well in more detail.

And they're going to get to the majority of the stuff they left out, if I had to wager on it. People freaking out need to let the series ride its course before you scream bloody murder about ruining the manga or whatever.

Okay a lot cut, but I do personally think people are overreacting a tad... alot of what's cut (specifically everything involving Kimblee and Winry's parents) will almost certainly comeNo id up again in the future. Other stuff (like the role of Fesler) was cut because it wasn't important, and the rest was cut but what stood in it's place did pretty much the same job, just alot more subtley (everything involving Hawkeye's back). I think the way the Ishbal flashbacks have been handled haven't been perfect, and I think I'd preferred them to have been lumped together like they were in the manga, but I then also remember that the manga still exists and is still sitting on my desk.

Yes it would've been nice to see the whole thing animated, but beggers can't be choosers, and alot of people pretty much begged for this new series, which is, if anything, an animated cliffnotes of the original manga. I also think it's rather amusing to watch people complain abou tthings being removed and changed in the tiniest ways here, when their are mangas and books that have been adapted and been pretty much gutted by the people adpating them (Harry Potter ring any bells?)

Now I'm not saying this episode was perfect, no, but it did a pretty good job of editting down a massive bulk of material to one episode and still getting the same basic message across; that Hawkeye, Mustang, Armstrong and everyone else in the military, are basically preparing their own nooses by trying to overthrow the military. I think it's something that's easily forgotten, but these characters we know and love are murderers in the eyes of many, and are not destined to end up living happy lives. It's a powerful message, one you rarely see as well, and I can forgive them cutting scenes that are almost certain to come up again in the future, to keep that message alive and well.

I officially love Kimblee's new voice; it's absolutely perfect. His scenes were also cut down, but they cut it down to show the bare minimum and get across the two sides of Kimblee's characters. The soft-spoken, charming gentlemen that speaks to Hawkeye and Mustang (yeah he was being a jerk, but he was a gentlmen about it) and then the insane, poetic mad killer that kills Scar's family. The shaking in his voice as he describes the sensation was just awesome.

Hmmm so they changed the Ishbalan soldiers to just generic Ishabalans, but I'm not too bothered about that.

Okay about... five or six people have said some variation on 'Why did they cut Mustang burning Hawkeye's back when it's in the opening' and while I'm surprised they did cut it and think it should've stayed, I also say 'bwuh? it's in the opening?!' because after those comments I've watched the sucker over and over and I cannot see it ANYWHERE. So can someone point out to me where it is? Cause clearly I'm going blind or something.

Now for the most interesting thing of the episode to me, which not many have mentioned: didn't Al and May's conversation seem tacked on? I mean really tacked on, like it didn't fit in this episode? Like they added it at the last minute? Like maybe they didn't animate it originally? Like maybe they HAD to animate it? I'm not saying that's what happened, but I am reminded of JK Rowling forcing the director to put Kreacher back into the Order of the Phoenix film, so maybe Arakawa told them the scene needed to be animated?

Of course if they hadn't, all of May's adoring Al stuff would have to be cut and er... I think that needs to be there.

Anyway not a great episode, I am disappointed with some cuts, but I also have confidence alot of it will come up again in the future (I can almost take a guess at the exact point some parts will be put in) I also just wanna point out again that despite all the changes this series has had, you gotta remember that we're really lucky the changes have a. been so minor and b. are taking place in the second series of a manga that's already been adapted. There are fans of other mangas that got terrible adaptions that are probably sick with envy right now.

blind alchemist ova out...i know this is the wrong place to post this...but posting it here because ppl will read it...ahah..unlike in other threads...sorry...tombow

subbed .....

^ thanks so much for informin us bout the OVA i just watched it, really liked it

Thanks alot about the info...
I loved Ed eating at the beg, am watching it currently

Here are some of my more thorough thoughts on episode 30:

So, Bones took my favorite volume of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga, volume 15, and stripped it of its significance and impact. It's not too surprising. Spreading parts of the Ishbal flashback into other episodes, keeping this one episode, it was bound to be watered down. I shouldn't have expected any more, but I had faith in Bones, and it was misplaced.

Is it just me, or does the war as it's depicted in this episode seem a little... tame? In the manga, it's total chaos in most of the scenes. Total hell. Here, it almost seems like merely a police action, a series of small shoot outs. You really don't get the same severe brutality you saw in the manga, in scenes like Kimbley's with Armstrong at the wall.

We also miss quite a bit of the heart, too. I know they already covered most of Scar's past, but they missed the Rockbells being warned by their supplier, Ishbalan Amestrian soldiers being locked up, and Knox talking with Marcoh. We even lost some of the little extras, like cameos by Lust and Envy, or Bradley's inner thoughts as he saw Roy stare up at him ("He's looking right at me... no, past me."). The ambiguous wickedness of Kimbley at this point is somewhat lost. Hell, they even cut down his speech, and they got rid of all those other soldiers that were around them. It felt like Roy, Riza, and Hughes were fighting the war at times.

Look, the episode itself was pretty good on its own. We got most of the basics. Roy and Riza's past, Kimbley being a douche, state alchemists killing folks, Philosopher's Stones being created out of Ishbalans, and King Bradley looking down on humans (did anyone find it strange that he kept calling those Ishbalans "humans"? Isn't that suspicious behavior for somebody who is trying to pass as human himself?). Fine. So it's a good episode, but it could have been two masterpiece episodes.

Haha, yes I did.
The whole time I was thinking; gloves don't make that sound, or any sound at all!

Agreed- where were the bodies littered about, the gunfire? It didn't do half the job it should have in showing how insane the experience was.

And I agree with you about the lack of heart. When Roy is speaking to Hughes at the end there, firming up his resolve and looks up at the Furher (or rather, through the Furher) That whole scene worked as well as it did because it was the culmination of the entire war experience. We share in Roy's frustration, anger, and disillusionment because we read the first 150 pages prior to that, and we feel how brutal and demoralizing it was.

The anime was -telling- us how it felt without making us feel it.

-Every- character had development in these chapters. Mustang. Hawkeye. Kimbley. Armstrong. Hughes. Winry's parents. Scar and his brother. Even the furher himself. About half of these moments were lost. And while these scenes might be spread out elsewhere, not having them in one condensed story arc like this dilutes them and removes them of their proper context.

Agreed, while I do believe that the episode isn't (that) bad on it's own, as a adaptation of the manga chapters it is an absolute failure.

The most aggrevating part for me though was simply the cut and paste dialogue. Because so much was cut out, a lot of the dialogue was shorten resulting in speeches that sounded disjointed and awkward (in context).

Also this may be nitpicking, but the animators seem to have a really difficult time in keeping Riza drawn consistently.

Echoing what everyone said, I was disappointed with all that they cut. But I wasn't surprised, so I still enjoyed the episode. One advantage of the cuts was that the whole story seemed to focus in on Riza's perspective, and lent it a really cool/tragic juxtaposition, since (back then at least), she exudes more innocence than Knox, Marcoh, or Mustang, making her participation in the massacre all the more twisted.

The weirdest thing was that they did not clarify the significance of her tattoo. This is so important to Roy and Riza's back story that I'm convincing myself that they'll be more clear later, maybe even next ep. Hope I'm right.

I liked how they actually made it look like Scar killed Marcoh, made a good ending.

i dislike how they put on riza's sudden appearance scene(gunshot is way dramatic),and too much time spend on narratives.the part i really like is kimbley's speech.his seiyuu is really good.on some indiviual scenes alone such as the cementary scene,is nicely done.

anyone know where to watch the armstrong clip?

what i like the manga is the drama.well,someone can say that 03 vers has drama,but from one who read the manga first,i must say the manga has a degree of realism which draws me more than other mangas do. (i'm not comparing to anime1 anyway).i am seriously disappointed with this episode.no wonder anime viewers cant feel the sadness and cruelty of war.you'll felt arakawa 's sincerity,and one of the things she truly master is drama.you dont need to read the preface to know she interviewed veteran soldiers.they could have left mei on next ep.i'm not sure whether they intend to make FMA more shonen(ref to some comments that says FMA is more of a seinen).Bones,i really hope this is not the case here,and if this ep is cut due to fear of broadcast rates/budget cuts,i 'll take off my comments here.they are quite good with scar's part earlier.i'm not sure why why this happens.all of this episode is nothing but a mere memory.and this is supposed to show how roy built his beliefs,and also riza's,and how it affect every life.the thing is ,this ep wasnt nicely cut.it's really weird.


the seiyuus does well here.i have no complaints,and my thuimbs up to kimblee seiyuu.

I was disappointed this frame wasn't included in the show:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/58/06/

However, I thought it was fairly good, but a bit rushed. Although necessary, I didn't care for the length of the Ishval segment in the manga, so I didn't mind it being cut a bit short. I wished they did have the segment about Winry's parents though so we could get to know them better in the anime.

Like many others on this thread, I was a little disappointed in this episode. However, it was a lot better than it could have been. I think the extra elaboration on flame alchemy and Riza's tattoo will come in a later flashback. It's important, and I don't think Bones would leave it out completely. I don't know about the other things they left out. Those could be scattered in later, but their omission seems a little more...permanent...to me. Overall, I'm impressed by Bones. It's hard to cram such a huge flashback into one episode, but war is tough to animate, and probably expensive because of all the detail. They probably had to put it all in one episode because of budget and pacing.

Totally off subject: By the way, does anyone else get the feeling Bones reads these threads? I mean, a few weeks ago, everyone was griping about Hawkeye's lack of eyecatches, then she gets two and the "see you next time" at the end. Creepy, right? XD

Not to mention that they're naked.

Anyways, speaking as someone who's read the Ishval chapters once maybe three years ago and doesn't remember a thing, I liked this episode. Not a favorite, but it's okay. You can all gripe about the great stuff that I've missed and give me some links to the manga chapters in question now, so that I may too gasp in horror at the things that they've left out.

Please add FMA:B English dubbed episode 30 (on CN on Adult Swim) talk-back/discussions here.

FMA:B will air 1:00 AM - 1: 30 AM and 5:00 AM - 5:30 AM eastern time.

I've already said my peace on the episode, so I'll add one thing about the dub: Eric Vale is not smooth enough as the nihilistic yet philosophical Kimblee.

I agree entirely, though I do think he sounded better this time around than in the first episode.

^ Yeah, ya know, the first time I really heard Kimblee's voice, I wasn't sure about it either. I always pictured his voice being a little lower and smoother and, well, sexier. (Maybe that's just the fangirl in me, but whatever). But I have to say, I really got used to it after a while. It's not what I expected out of him, for sure. But it works if you give it a chance. Eric's voice acting is really nice, and the way he just plain says things makes me think, "Okay, yeah. That's Kimblee." Especially when he gets all excited and screaming about how "THIS STONE IS AMAAAZING!!! xDD" Oh man. I just thought that was wonderful.

*wipes off nosebleed* But enough of that. Let me just say that when I watched this episode for the first time (in Japanese... I couldn't wait), I was really disappointed, just like most of you here. Volume 15 is my absolute FAVORITE volume of FMA, and seeing things be cut out of it and shoved all into one, tiny episode broke my heart. But oddly enough, I couldn't stop watching it. It's a very addicting episode in a weird way. At this point, I think I'd even have to say I like it. I guess my love for Ishval stuff just sort of took over.

I liked this episode.......the first time through. The second time through i was criticising it in my head. The Roy and Hawkeye beginning was alright. I like that but Colleen doing the voice acting for Hawkeye throughout the rest of it sounded the same as it did when it showed Hawkeye at 16 (ish) until halfway through. (this meaning she sounded 16 while she told the story of Ishbal) Hawkeye as a 19 yr old in Ishbal was alright. But i liked how when Ed asked about the Gun being a burden she said "I lost the right to look at it that way. 'm not proud of it." I really like that. The rest of it is alright...I wish they used more parts of the Manga in it to actually make the episode count!

About Roy's glove: I think it's made of a different material and thats why it makes noise but i laughed at the noise XD

For anyone who missed this episode, it will be on Adult Swim (U.S.) again tonight.