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Tombow
Talk-back/content discussion for English dubbed episode on Adult Swim starts on page 5. smile.gif


Please post the discussions on the content of episode 28 here.
This thread is declared as a Spoiler zone for the content of the first 28 episodes.


* Where to watch this episode

* HD Screen caps of this episode to be posted on this link address sometime later


* Episode Preview from FMA-2 official JP site:
(Translation by Tombow, with episode title from official sub on Funimation.com)
Episode 28: "Father"
Guided by Gluttony, Al and Xiao Mei arrive at "Father"'s lair. Just then, Gluttony's stomach suddenly opens up, and Ed, Ling, and Envy emerge from inside Gluttony's stomach.
While they are celebrating their reunion, Father arrives, and Ed and Al are shocked to see that Father's appearance is almost identical to that of their own father, Hohenheim.
Father welcomes Ed and Al, but he orders Homunculus to kill Ling. Ed and Al try to protest, but with Father's mysterious power they find themselves unable to perform Alchemy, and all three get held down by Homunculus. Father tells that "Greed's seat is vacant," then takes out a Philosopher's Stone from his body, and approaches Ling....







=======================================

Episode Summary: (To be filled)


Characters in this episode: (To be filled)


Locations: (excluding review and preview scenes, to be filled)


Sound Track info for this episode that's known to us so far: (To be filled)


FMA manga reference: To the readers of FMA manga (To be filled)
Winry Chan
Hey there-

You mentioned not being able to open up the jp website for the episode summary. Here it is:

第28話「おとうさま」
グラトニーの案内で「お父様」の所へ着いたアルとシャオメイ。その時突然グラトニーの腹が裂け、中からエド、リン、エンヴィーが現れる。再会の喜びも束の間、彼らの前へ現れたお父様の姿に驚くエドとアル。その素顔はなんと兄弟たちの父、ホーエンハイムにそっくりであった。お父様は兄弟たちを厚く手当てするが、リンに対しては殺せとホムンクルス達に命ずる。反抗する兄弟たち、だがお父様の不思議な力で錬金術が使えなくなり、リン共々押さえ込まれてしまう。そしてお父様は「グリードの席が空いている」と言って体内より賢者の石を取り出し、リンに近づいていくのだった。

I can't read Japanese (I'm more of a Chinese), but this seems to be the summary. Hope it helps...
Tombow
^ Aww Winry Chan, that's sweet of you. ^^ I will get to the translation now. biggrin.gif

ETA: The translation of the episode 27 preview summery is done, and I edited it into my first post. Thanks again, Winry Chan!! biggrin.gif
penguintruth
My initial thoughts:

- I sort of feel bad for Gluttony, having Envy, Ed, and Ling come out of him that way.
- It was pretty awesome when Father disabled alchemy
- Urgh, we've finally gotten to one of my least favorite ideas in FMA. Well, at least my favorite character (sorta) returns.
- I sort of pictured this scene a little differently
- Ah! Yuuichi Nakamura returns.
- Mei having her dreams destroyed gave me a chuckle
- Woah, Scar is PISSED. But how does he expect to kill Envy?
- The look on Scar's face when his arm doesn't work on Father is priceless
- I still don't quite understand what Scar was doing with the dust
- Poor Gluttony!

Decent episode. A bit of action, some interesting exchanges. Looking forward to seeing it with subtitles.
Mhacy
screenshots^^

well based from the screenshots. It's a nice episode though I haven't watch it yet..Im too lazy to do so xP
Sannom
QUOTE ("penguintruth")
- I still don't quite understand what Scar was doing with the dust


It's a dust explosion. The anime actually missed Scar desintegrating the pipes to get the dust, he desintegrated the water to get more oxygen or hydrogen for the deflagration. That kind of thing seems to be quite popular in mangas. There was also one in Get Backers.

QUOTE ("penguintruth")
- It was pretty awesome when Father disabled alchemy


I prefered his goofy attitude before suddenly becoming serious and ordering Glutonny to eat Lin. He really reminded me of Hohenheim here laugh.gif

QUOTE ("penguintruth")
- Woah, Scar is PISSED. But how does he expect to kill Envy?


He seemed to be doing good so far, better than in the manga laugh.gif Poor Envy was screaming in pain and surprise while the whole floor was destroyed underneath his legs and he couldn't even get near the Ishbalan.

QUOTE ("penguintruth")
- I sort of feel bad for Gluttony, having Envy, Ed, and Ling come out of him that way.


That was horrible, I really felt bad for him on that one.
mellulah
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Oct 18 2009, 02:28 AM) *
- Urgh, we've finally gotten to one of my least favorite ideas in FMA. Well, at least my favorite character (sorta) returns.

You wouldn't happen to be the person on 4chan this morning saying that 'Greed is awsome but Ling's a ######'
Kasumisty
I must say, I didn't like the episode. Most of the good moments from manga (Ed consoling Al, mention of Ranfan) were sped up and treated as non important. There's still unconsistency with length of Ed's hair (it's not as long as Ling's!). And hey, Father's hair has no outline : x...why get Ed, Al and Hohenheim hair with outline, but leave out Father's? I also think Father's reactions were too emotional for somebody whose emotions are no longer here. Moreover, the episode seemed too chaotic (it must be that speeding up). But I liked the artstyle (aside the things mentioned) and voice play. Didn't like the change of Ling's voice, but oh well... 6/10.
rzerox21xx
I like the episode, too bad they took out the Ed elbowing Envy giant head for calling him little when they started attacking. I have the tankobon 13 and 14 with me while watching. I glad they kept May's Edward fantasies. Ed in those fantasies need a glove wtih gloves and he would be a shoe in for Vega from Street Fighter.
Forsaken Love
pretty good ep, our first proper Al and Mei scene <3 cuuuuuuuuute It was really weird hearing Greed's VA coming out of Ling, didn't feel right at all! But I kinda got used to it by the end of the ep, even though it wasn't how i imagined it, I just imagined a difference in pitch and the intonations used in Ling's original voice, I guess for the anime it kinda makes scense though, so as to define more greatly been the two characters when they switch places and have conversations with each other in later eps
S.F. Thunder
GREELING <3

I agree that Ling's voice change is weird, but I had been expecting it so I wasn't thrown off too much. I actually think it's cool.

But the pacing of the episode I didn't like. :/ Everything happened far too quickly, it seemed, and there wasn't enough time to really take in the dramatic changes that were taking place. I imagine the people who haven't read the manga would need such time before something else happened.

Well, one episode closer to Ishbal. <3

Mhacy
I just finished watching the RAW..it's not bad though it was a bit rush. I love GreedLing^^ and Mei Hallucinations were priceless. Ed's face looks so cute, I need a mature one =_=. I really like Greed's VA. I dunno but I like hearing Greed's VA although the one's talking is Ling.
Kasumisty
QUOTE (Mhacy @ Oct 18 2009, 04:37 PM) *
Ed's face looks so cute, I need a mature one =_=.


Well, he looks very mature in next episode, at least. But it could be that more reasonable clothes

Forsaken Love
^ Ed has really wide shoulders in that shot XD
Mindy
Been seeing a lot of dislike for Greed's original voice coming out of Ling but remember: Bido recognizes Greed's laugh and voice in Chp 82. I admit that it's a bit jarring at first. smile.gif

Yay, Dr. Knox & RanFan next week.
Mr. Deathy
This episode ruined some of the scenes I was most looking forward to seeing animated in the whole series.

Ling's transformation was not dramatic or shocking in any way because it was rushed through like it was a minor event, instead of one of the biggest twists in the whole story. It had the potential to be epic, gut wrenching stuff but instead it felt like no big deal. Very disappointed!

Also sad they left out some great comedy like the "If you want to shoot the leader just shoot him!" line.

I wonder if any anime only viewers will even get Mei's reaction to seeing Ed by the way. They only actually made one damn reference to her fantasies before this scene!

It's funny how they sneakily put the part where Father removes Gluttony's stone to rebuild him after the credits but before the preview. Clearly trying to cram even more than the 2+ chapters they had by squeezing another scene in there.

The only positive things I can really say about this ep is that the animation was good and at least they'll have more chance of covering a decent amount of Ishval stuff in episode 30 now that they paced this episode quicker. Even the music choice in this ep I felt was abysmal when they have tons of great tracks they could've used for the key scenes...but didn't.

EDIT: Actually I'm also glad they went with Greed's voice for Greedling. I expected this and I think it's heavily implied he's meant to have Greed's voice in the manga, with Bido recognising his voice and the fact that some scenes would be weird if Ling's VA was voicing the new Greed too, such as internal struggle scenes.

rzerox21xx
The prince of dawn game had greedling with greed voice actor so of course they were going to use that voice. Glad that Ed is getting another change of clothes rather than stick with one set for a while like the first 23 episodes. I thought they would keep him wear the black one snice it was feature in the opening or a clean set of the black one snice considering he been dipped in blood for quite a while.
Irena
Not the best episode, but still better than last week. Ling's transformation was toned down a little too much, but I did like the part where he was talking to Greed. I always imagined everything to be white/yellow, but when I watched it I was like "ohyeah. Red. Philosopher's Stone. Makes Sense." xD
shiroe
Just a side note: I find it interesting that Ling's eyes change their colour after he turns into Greed, now they're the same colour as old Greed's eyes. It was hard to tell in the manga. I think it's kind of cool but a little bit strange, seeing as Wrath kept his eyes' colour after the transformation.
Ropespinner
QUOTE (shiroe @ Oct 19 2009, 12:40 AM) *
Just a side note: I find it interesting that Ling's eyes change their colour after he turns into Greed, now they're the same colour as old Greed's eyes. It was hard to tell in the manga. I think it's kind of cool but a little bit strange, seeing as Wrath kept his eyes' colour after the transformation.


It was like this in the manga as well (except that in the manga, Greed has red eyes, not purple). It's visible in, for example, the color page of chapter 98. Maybe it's because Greedling isn't Greed's first incarnation, and some of the old Greed's physical traits carried over? I think he also got sharp teeth when he was homunculified.


About the episode itself, I think it could have been better. Many scenes just didn't have the same emotional emphasis they did in the manga. Also, there are many scenes I just imagined a bit differently, and now they feel sort of "wrong" in the anime. And the music when Ling was "greedified" was way too un-epic.

On the other hand, Father's total lack of understanding of social rules and personal space was still funny as it was in the manga.
shiroe
QUOTE (Ropespinner @ Oct 19 2009, 05:53 AM) *
It was like this in the manga as well (except that in the manga, Greed has red eyes, not purple). It's visible in, for example, the color page of chapter 98. Maybe it's because Greedling isn't Greed's first incarnation, and some of the old Greed's physical traits carried over? I think he also got sharp teeth when he was homunculified.


Oh, thanks. So the homunculi have red eyes in the manga, instead of purple like in the anime? I never noticed!

As for the episode, I don't think it was rushed. I had pretty much expected this pacing based on the summaries before. Although it covered more than 2 chapters, and they kept in most of the material, these are action-packed chapters, so it played out rather nicely.

I admit it lacked emotional impact though. Probably the direction, and the bad music placement (again!) are the reasons.

Despite that, it was a very good episode overall, not close to ep 26 level, or even ep 24 level, but can be on par with 22 and 23, to me at least.



Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Oct 18 2009, 11:20 AM) *
I wonder if any anime only viewers will even get Mei's reaction to seeing Ed by the way. They only actually made one damn reference to her fantasies before this scene!

I remembered May's fantasies all right. What surprised me was how she had that reaction when she had only just glimpsed Edward, crushed underfoot, on the other side of the room. That's some good eyesight.
zonkiethegreat
I disagree with most of the comments here. This was a GOOD episode. I understand it was not quite as EPIC as it could have been, especially with the introduction of GREEDLING!!! YEAH!!! I love him!!!

I don't find the voice change for Greed weird at all, I thought it was great. Overall I was pleased with this ep.

So how many chapters are they cramming in the next episode?? It looks like from the preview, that ed will be visiting Riza's apartment???
Jen_Elric
good episode. Not as good as 25 or 26, but I thought it was well done.
I agree that when Ling turned into Greed, it was anticlimatic. And I was prepared to hear Greed's voice, so I was a little strange at first but I got used to it.
Poor Gluttony! First, Ed, Ling, and Envy just rip out of him, but then he ran out of his regeneration ability. Just felt a litttle bad for him even though i know we'll see him again.
The episode did seem to be rushed, but it was nice to see that they kept the nice animation for envy's true form.
LOL at Mei's reaction to seeing Ed was not the guy she thought him to be! And her and Al's scene was cute!
OMG, it really looked like Father was eeling up Ed!! I just about cracked up!

Can't wait for the next episode!
EveningAlchemist
This episode was actually one of my favourites! The pacing doesn't seem bad to me, because when I read the manga, it also seemed very fast. (I had to read it a couple times to get it.) I really liked the way Ling transformed into Greed, all the bits, really. Is it just me or does Lin sound totally sexy with Greed voice? laugh.gif When the power of the philosopher's stone suddenly made the scene become dominated with red, it really struck me. (Like when Lin met Greed, or Father turned off the alchemy!) I was wowed by Lin's voice actor, especially when he was telling greed he wanted power. He actually sounded full of greed! Mei-Chang was very ultimate comedy relief! (I still think Ed's sexy even if she doesn't...)
Whereas ep. 26 had the best ending, I think this had the best opening, with everybody spilling out of Gluttony. He really sounded in pain... O_o

The opening and ending I'm starting to like too. (All it takes is a little time.)
shiroe
QUOTE (EveningAlchemist @ Oct 19 2009, 10:27 AM) *
This episode was actually one of my favourites! The pacing doesn't seem bad to me, because when I read the manga, it also seemed very fast. (I had to read it a couple times to get it.) I really liked the way Ling transformed into Greed, all the bits, really. Is it just me or does Lin sound totally sexy with Greed voice? laugh.gif When the power of the philosopher's stone suddenly made the scene become dominated with red, it really struck me. (Like when Lin met Greed, or Father turned off the alchemy!) I was wowed by Lin's voice actor, especially when he was telling greed he wanted power. He actually sounded full of greed! Mei-Chang was very ultimate comedy relief! (I still think Ed's sexy even if she doesn't...)
Whereas ep. 26 had the best ending, I think this had the best opening, with everybody spilling out of Gluttony. He really sounded in pain... O_o

The opening and ending I'm starting to like too. (All it takes is a little time.)


Yeah, I also like how Greed's voice comes out of Ling, it's not weird at all, it's awesome!

And Mei was in no place to call Ed a bean, haha! lol they actually suit each other perfectly! biggrin.gif (as if...) (she's perfect to be Ed's sister-in-law though tongue.gif

QUOTE
So how many chapters are they cramming in the next episode??

2 chapters based on the summaries. And yeah, Ed will visit Hawkeye at the end of next ep!
QueenTiria
Ed's visiting Hawkeye next week? I can't WAAIIIT!! Because that means one of the three EdxWin manga moments is approaching!! *fangirls*

This ep was...better than the last one. Which is actually criticism, but lol^^
I liked Mei Chang's expressions, but that was about it. The good thing is that it went so damn fast it was over before I knew it^^
Kaleidoscope
I actually loved this episode. I agree that Ling's transformation could have had some better music, but I was still impressed. I also found the part when Ed and Greedling fought at the end incredibly emotional. They had just become close friends, and suddenly all that's taken away. Also, Scar's alchemy looked great and, of course, I loved the Al and Mei interaction.
mersaydee
QUOTE (shiroe @ Oct 18 2009, 04:38 PM) *
QUOTE (Ropespinner @ Oct 19 2009, 05:53 AM) *
It was like this in the manga as well (except that in the manga, Greed has red eyes, not purple). It's visible in, for example, the color page of chapter 98. Maybe it's because Greedling isn't Greed's first incarnation, and some of the old Greed's physical traits carried over? I think he also got sharp teeth when he was homunculified.


Oh, thanks. So the homunculi have red eyes in the manga, instead of purple like in the anime? I never noticed!



They actually have purple eyes in the manga, as well - though sometimes the colorist makes the purple more of a reddish tone, which is why they sometimes look red. But they're purple in both versions. happy.gif
Jealous Rogo
Seems a few people are quite dissapointed with how events turned out this week, and to be honest I'm not entirely sure why but whatever, each opinion is valid and all that. Speaking of which here is mine (ah see what I did there!):

- Did anyone find this version of Envy and co bursting from Gluttony's stomach ALOT more creepy and disturbing. It just seemed more drawn out and painful than in the Manga, plus the agonised screams by his voice actor did alot to help with that.

- Okay I'll agree that the impact of Al's reaction to seeing Ed again was sort of lost by them not making the comparison to Ed losing Al all that time ago they made in the Manga. Kinda sad to see that gone, but whatever.

- Father is so goofy, I think it makes the impact of him saying to kill Ling even greater. You gotta remember that aside from obviously being the main villain, Father had always been portrayed as a fatherly figure to the Homunculus, so we'd never seen his callous attitude until then. Dipping his offspring into vats of oil not withstanding.

- Hmmm more dropped lines, I can start to see why people are complaing. Then again the 'aim for the horse' line isn't VITAL to the plot. I noticed them removing Al's line about Ed's maturity (attacking Father instead of Envy who'd just called him short)

- Okay wanna take time to make a mini-rant about fansubbers. The first one I saw was bad, but the second one wasn't entirely better. At the point where Father says he's going to make Ling into a Homunculus, NEITHER of them subbed it in a way that I could understand what the HELL he was saying. It's not even like they don't have an official translation to go by, I have Volume 14 on my desk right now and I can tell you he chose Ling because of his endurance, skill and guts, but if I didn't have it in front of me, going by the subs, I'd have no bloody clue. I'm highlighting this because normally unsaid second subs are usually very good at this sort of thing and it took me aback. Then again maybe what he said in the Viz translation is not EXACTLY what he said originally but at least I could understand WHY he did it. Rant over, back on topic, sorry for deviating.

- Someone mentioned they couldn't understand why he would bring back Greed when he was rebelious. Well for starters he'd cleansed Greed's soul of his memories and past, so I guess he assumed it wouldn't be a problem, plus after Lust's death he could do with anaother good pawn. Also as revealed in the later chapters, Father created the Homunculus partly to rid himself of emotions, so he was probably desperate to get rid of Greed from his body

- Am I the only one who thought the scene of Ling turning into Greed was pretty well done? Same as with Envy bursting out of Gluttony, I found this version far more disturbing. There's points when Ling's bones and limbs are clearly bending in ways they just shouldn't. I also liked the scene with Greed talking to Ling, as it shows just how similar the character's are in some senses. Also why didn't I ever realise that scene would be mostly red, I'm an idiot.

- Greed's voice coming from Ling, yeah should've realised that was how they would do it. Specially as I think doesn't Bido recognise Greed by his voice in a later chapter?

- *sigh* I KNEW that's what the eyecatches would be the minute the episode preview began. Least they didn't do a turn-around transition from Ling to Greed in the opening like I was expecting.

- Greed's reaction to Shao Mei and May Cang's reunion cracks me up every time.

- Hmmm you know it's only just dawned on me that the style of May's fantasies is alot like Ouren Host Club, which hardly surprising as BONES animation it but still does anyone else think Ed's looking a bit Tamaki in those fantasies?

- Okay I'm confused, why is Envy holding his arm up like he's hurt it... I'm not saying I don't like it, it just struck me as... odd.

- I like that they made a bigger deal of May's reaction to Scar going vengence hungry, as this is the first time she's seen him like that. She would have that reaction.

- Love the long shot of Envy VS Scar and Gluttony VS May Chang, so much happening it just looks awesome.

- Greed running with his hands in his pockets is so funny.

- Gluttony's dying, bless his cannibalistic cotton socks (there's a film I'd go see)

- Okay... this confused me. I thought the whole point of when Ed hit's Ling is that he sees Ling's eyes are normal again? Or is it just the fact he took the punch? I geuss it was the latter at least in the anime as his eyes are still purple here...

- Adding Father saying he's going to ressurect Gluttony as an added scene at the end of the ending, makes sense to me. It would've ruined the ending to have it there and it would've felt even more tacked on if it happened in the beginning of next week's episode.

- Next week should be... interesting? I don't have much to say on it, other than I'm looking forward to how they do the 'Don't Underestimate Humans' line. If they keep it at all.

Mr. Deathy
OT:
QUOTE (zonkiethegreat @ Oct 18 2009, 08:03 PM) *
So how many chapters are they cramming in the next episode?? It looks like from the preview, that ed will be visiting Riza's apartment???


Looks like it'll cover 2 chapters and end just before that. Those chapters are pretty dialogue intensive though so I expect a few omitted scenes, or at least a lot of dialogue cuts (like in most 2 chapter eps)

Episode 30 will cover segments of all the Ishval chapters I guess, though less than a third of the whole thing in terms of content I expect.

< ^ Thanks, Mr. Deathy for answering zonkiethegreat's question. ^^
NOTE: Anyone with further discussions on the content of upcoming episodes, please use Future episode discussion thread. Thank you! :) ~ Board Staff >
Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (Jealous Rogo @ Oct 19 2009, 02:26 PM) *
There's points when Ling's bones and limbs are clearly bending in ways they just shouldn't.

Oh no, he's turning into Plastic Man! happy.gif
Elle-chan
They are rushing the series to much.
edxwinryfan
The was a good episode. I am really excited for next week because of the EdxWinry scenes happy.gif I think there is 3 (sort of) one where Ed tells Bradley not to dare touch Winry, and then he calls her to make sure she is okay smile.gif plus I think we will get to see the scene where Riza asks him if he loves (is in love) Winry wub.gif wub.gif
zonkiethegreat
Yeah it looks like Ed will be visiting Riza not in the next episode but the following HALLOWEEN EP!!! YEAH! I bet ANYTHING the next ep will end with a glimpse of Riza's tattoo!!! biggrin.gif
penguintruth
I was never fond of Arakawa making Ling a new Greed. While Greed is my favorite character, I didn't want to see him come back in such a way, and Ling is probably my least favorite character. The idea itself is pretty questionable, since it makes little sense Father would willingly bring back an openly rebellious element like Greed, even with his memories wiped. His nature is to strike out on his own, since he's so greedy. It seemed to me, when I first read this in the manga, that Arakawa simply ran out of ideas for Ling. While I have since changed my mind on it, I'm still not certain whether or not it was a good move. But hey, I should feel better that Greed has returned, right? If anything, Greed inhabiting him improves him, right?

The scene where he becomes Greed is a little underwhelming though, at least musically. I did enjoy the bit where Ling talks to the spirit of Greed. When I read that in the manga, I pictured blackness with white spirits floating around, not red, but with the Philosopher's Stone, it makes more sense. I just felt like it didn't seem as dramatic as in the manga.

Also, what is it about Greed's ouroboros tattoo? I thought it was the other way around on his hand. Maybe that was just for the first anime. I thought it looked better there.

At least we get Yuuichi Nakamura again. I thought he made a good Greed beforehand, approaching the quality of Suwabe in the first series. Hearing him again as Greed made me smile. He knows how to deliver.

Why does Scar seems so damn overpowered? Angry or not, he shouldn't be able to get away with half the things he does. The look on his face when he couldn't kill Father was priceless.
Mr. Deathy
^@Penguintruth - I have the complete opposite opinion of Ling becoming Greed. I actually think Arakawa created Ling with the INTENTION to make him Greed. It's like his entire point in the storyline, that he's the good guy character who becomes a homonculus. It also ties in perfectly with his desires.

I also think it was planned out far enough in advance that the reason Father was specifically shown to drink Greed and take the stone back into himself was so that he could make a new Greed later on.

Father seems intent on separating all the "sins" from his body as well as having pawns so I guess getting rid of his greed again was part of the reason why he decided to make a new Greed. I don't think it even needs to make logical sense though because it was a great development.

I have absolutely no idea why you're so against Ling as a character? It almost comes across that your love of the first series makes you biased against characters exclusive to the manga or something. I can see no logical reason to detest the character...dislike perhaps, but you complain about him at virtually every possibility?
Imbris
I agree Mr. Deathy! Ling is a great character! Like Scar, he's an anti-hero. It's boring when a story has only good guys and bad guys, but when there are some ambiguous characters that can make a story so much more interesting.

Ling was meant to become greed, and I'm sure Arakawa had the whole thing planned out from the start. Ling's greedy on his own - always talking about "me me me" as his excuse for everything he does, so it was only natural for him to become Greed the homunculus.

And seriously Penguin...complaining about the placement of his ouroboros tattoo!? It's a nice observation if that's indeed the case, but hardly anything worth scoffing at.

Anyway, a good episode. Not as good as 26, but that's one's gonna be HARD to top. I kind of wish someone would put me in a coma for a few months so I could come back and watch the rest of the series in one sitting - these week-long waits are brutal!!
Sannom
QUOTE ("penguintruth")
Why does Scar seems so damn overpowered? Angry or not, he shouldn't be able to get away with half the things he does.


The guy is a walking weapon of mass destruction, even if not at the degree of Mustang. His alchemy makes short work of everything as long as he knows what he's fighting against, and we all know what incompetent fools Envy and Glutonny are.
penguintruth
QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Oct 20 2009, 05:40 AM) *
^@Penguintruth - I have the complete opposite opinion of Ling becoming Greed. I actually think Arakawa created Ling with the INTENTION to make him Greed. It's like his entire point in the storyline, that he's the good guy character who becomes a homonculus. It also ties in perfectly with his desires.

I also think it was planned out far enough in advance that the reason Father was specifically shown to drink Greed and take the stone back into himself was so that he could make a new Greed later on.

Father seems intent on separating all the "sins" from his body as well as having pawns so I guess getting rid of his greed again was part of the reason why he decided to make a new Greed. I don't think it even needs to make logical sense though because it was a great development.


The reasoning is shakey to start out with why Father would remake Greed. And then Arakawa does nearly nothing with him as Greed for a long while. As if he'd become an inconvenience. I don't expect immediate returns, but that it took so long for anything to come of that plot point frustrated me. Not to mention that I so loved the original Greed, I guess I got a bit miffed this one wasn't in the same form.

Now, yes, in recent chapters of the manga, Arakawa's been doing a great job with the character, but for a while, he just disappeared.

QUOTE
I have absolutely no idea why you're so against Ling as a character? It almost comes across that your love of the first series makes you biased against characters exclusive to the manga or something. I can see no logical reason to detest the character...dislike perhaps, but you complain about him at virtually every possibility?


I'm hardly so blindly in love with the first series that I can't accept manga-only characters. Major General Olivier Armstrong, for instance, is one of my favorite characters. And I appreciate how much more mileage the manga has gotten out of Doctor Marcoh than the first series did.

I'm not that in love with the anime-only characters, either. Frank Archer was sort of an iffy character, and then they turn him into some sort of cyborg, which had me scratching my head. The child Wrath was irritating most of the time, and I only sympathized with him towards the end, and in the movie. Dante came across as more of an obstacle than a villain.

I just dislike the Xingese in general. They come in, they have these amazingly exaggerated super skills that immediately match the opposition, and they just don't come across as FMA characters to me. They interfere by having themes too similar to already existing characters, and it becomes too much of the same thing, but in a form that feels awkward.

And you know, despite my critical nature, I did, after all, really like this episode. Though I save most of my praise for my blog reviews.
Forsaken Love
I don't see there's anything awkward about Greeling at all, its obvious the original Greed was created to become Greeling, as Ling was also created for the primary purpose of becoming Greeling, thats their purposes in the story, to become an awesome epic anti-hero to give the story some more deapth, and blend the black and white barriors of good and evil, for me I also allways loved the xingese characters and love how arakawa puts people from many races and cultures into her story, fma would not work in its current form if it wernt for the xingese characters concepts like the reverse transmutation circle would be much less explored, as would the dropped hints of how amestrias' alchemy is weird whether you like them or not, they are important
Broken Chouchou
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Oct 20 2009, 11:00 AM) *
The reasoning is shakey to start out with why Father would remake Greed.


Well, I thought Father wanted to get rid of all his human emotions, and by drinking Greed, isn't it possible that he regained the feeling of greed? So making another Greed, even though he might be somewhat of a liability, might be worth having a "cleansed" mind, or whatever.

QUOTE (penguintruth @ Oct 20 2009, 11:00 AM) *
Ling is probably my least favorite character


I just have something. WHY? You've been ranting about that in almost every post you mention him xD Why do you hate him so much?
penguintruth
QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Oct 20 2009, 02:36 PM) *
I just have something. WHY? You've been ranting about that in almost every post you mention him xD Why do you hate him so much?


I've already explained why I dislike the Xingese characters. Ling in particular because I feel like he's a slightly different version of Edward. We already have one Ed, we don't need another one. He detracts from Ed, and more importantly, from Alphonse, because with two strong Eds, you tend to look away from the other brother. And after Arakawa went through all the trouble of developing Al.

Ling is a "loud" character, like Edward. Alphonse is more nuanced, but more people will likely look at Ling, because of all the grand things they have him do. It's like they're trying to make Ling into another Elric brother, and I dislike it. Two is enough.
Bag of Magic Food
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Oct 20 2009, 01:00 PM) *
And then Arakawa does nearly nothing with him as Greed for a long while. As if he'd become an inconvenience. I don't expect immediate returns, but that it took so long for anything to come of that plot point frustrated me.

Maybe if the manga takes too long to end, this anime will have to add some filler episodes about Greed doing more stuff! Yeah?


QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Oct 20 2009, 01:36 PM) *
Well, I thought Father wanted to get rid of all his human emotions, and by drinking Greed, isn't it possible that he regained the feeling of greed?

And then he had a greedy thought: "I need more minions! MORE!"
Kaleidoscope
About Ling... I'm going to commit FMA blasphemy here, so bear with me.
First of all, I freely confess Al is my favorite male character.

Having said that, I actually prefer the Elric brothers separated. All of my favorite arcs or part of arcs involve the brothers separated. I think their characters both shine so much better when they're not together. Yes, they make a classic team, but the manga really picks up when Arakawa has established their dynamic and importance to each other enough to separate them, especially for long periods of time. The Gluttony's stomach arc is wonderful, in part because Ling is a much better foil for Ed than Al. Ling and Ed do have a lot of similarities, which makes their differences all the more striking. At the point when they meet in the story, Ed has very little self control, whereas I see Ling as incredibly calculating and self-controlled for a 15 year old, right from the get go. He knows what he wants, and he always does his best to spin the situation to his advantage. Ed on the other hand, often makes things worse for himself because of his lack of self control, like when he starts a fight with Envy in the forest, when Envy just came to collect Gluttony. But gradually, their characters develop in such a way that Ed becomes more and more self-disciplined (one humorous example would be his insistence on attacking Father in this episode), and Ling, despite his desperate attempts to spin things to his advantage, is sucked deeper and deeper into situations he cannot control. His possession is the most obvious example, but his breakdown in 100 is another important moment . The contrast is wonderful.

As for Al, I love his dynamic with Winry (adore the snark), Scar (great illustration of Al’s priorities), Mei (guilty shipper here), and Hohenheim (shows the depth of Al’s desire to be accepted), but I also love him on his own or with minor characters. Al's such an introspective character that he can totally carry a scene on his own. My all time favorite Al moments are his trudge through the snow in the Briggs arc and his fight with Kimblee and Pride With Ed, he sometimes gets overshadowed, as penguintruth said, Ed's a very loud character.

So yeah, I think Ling's a great addition to the story, and I actually love what he and the gradually ginormous cast as a whole do to force the Elrics apart. I know, I'm blasphemous.
Broken Chouchou
QUOTE (Bag of Magic Food @ Oct 20 2009, 05:50 PM) *
And then he had a greedy thought: "I need more minions! MORE!"


YES! Exactly biggrin.gif haha.

QUOTE (Kaleidoscope @ Oct 20 2009, 08:56 PM) *
I freely confess Al is my favorite male character.


I pretty much agree with everything you say in this post.

From my sig and ava I think it's pretty evident who my favourite character is tongue.gif And that's not blasphemy at all! Al is awesome biggrin.gif
penguintruth
Kaleidoscope, though I still disagree, and would rather see the brothers together, as they balance each other, you do present an interesting argument.
Jealous Rogo
You know Kaleidoscope now you mention it, doesn't it seem like Ed and Al are forced apart alot? Almost as if Arakawa intends to end the story with them apart? It would be a better,more realistic ending for the series than the movie's 'we'll stick together forever, wont be creepy' because in real life, brothers and sisters dont end up spending allllll their time together when they grow up. They go off and have seperate lives and families. I think maybe this is kind of what Al and Ed's seperations with different groups is meant to symbolise?

So this isn't off topic I'll connect it back to this episode. For the second time, one of the brothers is desperate to be reunited with another, but if you notice how long does it take for them to get seperated AGAIN? About ten minutes. Admittedly it's just Al running off to try and save May Chang but look at it more deeply. Al left Ed to save May Chang. If that's not feebly signifiant on a deeper level I'm desperately reaching at to keep this on topic then I don't know what it is.

Also, same applies for Ed/Winry during the Scar battle.
Sannom
QUOTE ("Kaleidoscope")
I actually prefer the Elric brothers separated.


QUOTE ("Kaleidoscope")
I think their characters both shine so much better when they're not together.


This. I'm a guilty shipper like you and mostly used this to bring forth Edwin points, but yeah I absolutely agree with you.

QUOTE ("Jealous Rogo")
Almost as if Arakawa intends to end the story with them apart?


To end the story with them "apart", first series-like, certainly not. But preparing us to the fact that they will eventually live different lives with different people once that their bodies are restored? Definitely. I even expect them to live in different countries, visiting each other from time to time.

Not like the ending of the first series (the movie) where their ultimate goal seems to be always together, always on a quest for something.
Forsaken Love
QUOTE (Jealous Rogo @ Oct 21 2009, 02:20 PM) *
You know Kaleidoscope now you mention it, doesn't it seem like Ed and Al are forced apart alot? Almost as if Arakawa intends to end the story with them apart? It would be a better,more realistic ending for the series than the movie's 'we'll stick together forever, wont be creepy' because in real life, brothers and sisters dont end up spending allllll their time together when they grow up. They go off and have seperate lives and families. I think maybe this is kind of what Al and Ed's seperations with different groups is meant to symbolise?

So this isn't off topic I'll connect it back to this episode. For the second time, one of the brothers is desperate to be reunited with another, but if you notice how long does it take for them to get seperated AGAIN? About ten minutes. Admittedly it's just Al running off to try and save May Chang but look at it more deeply. Al left Ed to save May Chang. If that's not feebly signifiant on a deeper level I'm desperately reaching at to keep this on topic then I don't know what it is.

Also, same applies for Ed/Winry during the Scar battle.


Lulz, my perfect fma ending would be Al going off on travles to xing with the xingese characters when they go home, and then Ed go back with winry to resembool XD

I'm also a very guilty shipper of alxmei XD and was delighted to see their first proper moment this episode haha

And i agree with everything kalido-san said, and don't be guuuilty! Al is my favourite character too
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