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Tombow
Talk-back/content discussion for English dubbed episode on Adult Swim starts on page 5. smile.gif


Please post the discussions on the content of episode 22 here.
This thread is declared as a Spoiler zone for the content of the first 22 episodes.


* Where to watch this episode

* HD Screen caps of this episode to be posted on this link address sometime later


* Episode Preview from FMA-2 official JP site:
(Translation by Tombow, with episode title from official sub on Funimation.com)
Episode 22: "Backs in the Distance"
TBF.... (currently I'm having problem opening up pages on the official JP site.. I'll fill in this one later. ^^)





=======================================

Episode Summary: (To be filled)


Characters in this episode: (To be filled)


Locations: (excluding review and preview scenes, to be filled)


Sound Track info for this episode that's known to us so far: (To be filled)


FMA manga reference: To the readers of FMA manga (To be filled)
penguintruth
My initial thoughts:

- As much as I dislike Ling as a character, he does cut a good action scene.
- The art seems a little awkward at times
- "Hey, let's stop fighting to near death for a moment to have an exposition-filled conversation that conveniently reveals something at just the right time."
- I never liked this Winry scene, because I always felt that, parents' death or not, Winry is too mature to raise a gun at Scar out of vengeance.
- Wow, this sure is a long, long flashback. How much of volume 15 is this going to cover? Leave it for later!
- They really did there best to drag this Winry confrontation out. But because of the flashback, it seems more about Scar than Winry.
- I want that damn Wii game!

Poor Scar. Poor Winry. Poor writing.

Okay, it wasn't that bad. Ishbal flashback for the win.
amestris_star
As much as I liked the ep, I still need to rewatch the RAW wink.gif And I bring screenshots from usual source:

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2009/09/06...brotherhood-22/

Particularly loved:

- Winry's VA
- The Ishval flashback (including the Rockbells and the Amestrian blue eyes)
- The EdWin scene at the end.

Plus, pacing was awesome today, and it seems like it's going to be like that next week too.
Yikie
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Sep 6 2009, 02:46 AM) *
- I never liked this Winry scene, because I always felt that, parents' death or not, Winry is too mature to raise a gun at Scar out of vengeance.


I have to disagree with you on this part. True, winry is very mature for her age, but at that moment, do you think she can still think logically/rationally?
Everything went so fast for her, she suddenly knows the killer of her parents, and suddenly was facing him eye to eye.
She must've recalled all the mixed emotions at once: the grief, the anger, etc... And then, she just snapped and picked up the gun.
I mean, if I were her, I'd have a mental breakdown too.
penguintruth
QUOTE (Yikie @ Sep 6 2009, 06:38 AM) *
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Sep 6 2009, 02:46 AM) *
- I never liked this Winry scene, because I always felt that, parents' death or not, Winry is too mature to raise a gun at Scar out of vengeance.


I have to disagree with you on this part. True, winry is very mature for her age, but at that moment, do you think she can still think logically/rationally?
Everything went so fast for her, she suddenly knows the killer of her parents, and suddenly was facing him eye to eye.
She must've recalled all the mixed emotions at once: the grief, the anger, etc... And then, she just snapped and picked up the gun.
I mean, if I were her, I'd have a mental breakdown too.


Eh, you may have a point. She totally lost it in the moment.
allykatty1
Hmm, initial feeling after watching via poor quality Keyhole was some good, a little bit of great, but... a lot of disappointment. I guess I've been waiting so long to see the gun scene animated and held such high expectations for it, that anything short of STUNNING wouldn't be enough. And it wasn't stunning. The art was a little off here and there and most importantly, the characters' expressions were off. The intensity that was in the manga just wasn't there.

One of my favorite pages in the manga:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/47/10/

Turned out like this:

http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Fullmeta...0Large%2034.jpg

That comparison alone makes me so sad, knowing what could have been. sad.gif This was it; what are the odds of this being animated a third time? Practically zilch. And most of the rest of the scene played out just as flatly compared to the manga as well.

If I were going to be really negative, I would even say the screenshot looks like a piece of so-so fanart next to the "real thing"! Where's the GLARE, the FIRE, in Ed's eyes??? Where's the shock on Winry's face? She almost looks bored in the screenshot when compared to the manga panel! Where's the energy, the tension, the flying debris? Where are the onlookers? And what, it's broad blue daylight? I always envisioned it as being a little more ominous, closer to dusk. It felt like the animators were just running through the motions, yet again, like they've done so many times in this new anime. We're done with the re-telling, this is all new stuff, not to mention one of THE most important scenes in the story, and to me, well, they kind of blew it. sad.gif

I also thought the flashback was extremely out of place. WTF do we leave such an important moment for, to ramble about Ishbal??? I would have much preferred to be in the dark about this mysterious brother of Scar's, just as it is in the manga. It was much more intriguing that way. Instead, we get a long-winded flashback interrupting the entire flow of energy of the scene (well, what little energy there was, at least). I have a degree in screenwriting from the top film school in the country and this just went against alllllll my instincts! tongue.gif

Music was so-so, nothing to really shock or draw you in or tense you up, nothing to really make you FEEL. It just felt like generic "oh no, something bad is happening, you should be appalled now" music. Again, a common problem in this new show... I had really hoped they were saving the GOOD music for scenes like this one, but I guess my hopes were misplaced after all. dry.gif

The positives were the voice acting (as always - go Romi! Winry, not too shabby either), the effect of the Amestrian blue eyes, and the scene of Ed prying Winry's fingers off the gun at the end. But even then, I felt like that last scene could have been even better, even more emotional. I wonder how this would have turned out if Seiji Mizushima had still been directing? Ah well, can't be helped, I guess. unsure.gif

My last desperate hope and goal is that FMA is eventually made into a live action franchise and we someday get to see this scene REALLY done justice!!! threaten.gif *sigh*
penguintruth
Yeah, I thought that, aside from the Ishbal flashback, some of the production values weren't as great as they could have been. But perhaps they're saving the budget for other things.

I love that thing with the eyes in the flashback, though. It sort of helped to highlight the rage and madness Scar felt in the moment he killed Winry's parents.

It's still my opinion that the entire Ishbal war flashback in volume 15 of the manga should be adapted into a new FMA theatrical film.
Womie
I love this episode! God, I was very excited when I watched it. And I love EdxWin scene too wub.gif Everything is good, now episodes will be better. But I really love this episode! They showed EdxWinry's scene so beautifully ... I won't sleep today. I'm really happy. I waited for it!
Sorry for my excitement xD
thunderbreak
i havent watch it yet,but based on comments,i wish that they put the flashback to ishbal war.as allykatty says,keep it mysterious.i remember i sorta think scar is too revengfuluntil i read the flashback,which states he kills her parents bcos lack of dose.the impact is great 4 me
according to narutofan,this is the first time Kenichi Ohnuki direct an fma episode.[correction: Animation director]
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=538840
rzerox21xx
halfway through the episode and I honestly think they did a good job. Winry's voice actress did a great job and they got one of my favorite voice actors to play Scar's brother. Takehito Koyasu. Winry dad sound like he's played by Sho Hayami who also played the blind alchemist. Anyway, I loved the animation of the Ling vs Bradely. well I was wrong, I guess the Girl in the battlefield title for next week's episode was referring to May chang instead of Winry. I think it was a creative difference on staff part to include the flashback of the war in that episode atleast only Scar's and Winry's part for that episode. It relate to the events better than the manga when it was told by Marcoh, Riza and Knox. atleast to me.
thunderbreak
omg,Takehito Koyasu is in !!yeah!! cant believe he plays the good guy this time round.thanks !!
rzerox21xx
QUOTE (thunderbreak @ Sep 6 2009, 07:25 AM) *
omg,Takehito Koyasu is in !!yeah!! cant believe he plays the good guy this time round.thanks !!



Just listen to Scar's brother's voice. and you know instantly that Koyasu-san. It be nice if they get Ryotaro Okiayu to voice a character like Miles, would be perfect(voiceing another isbalian character like him would be a neat contrast to the first scar voice by him.) it would be like old scar meet new scar when they talk to each other when they adapt volume 18.
mandymtt
QUOTE (allykatty1 @ Sep 6 2009, 04:00 AM) *
Hmm, initial feeling after watching via poor quality Keyhole was some good, a little bit of great, but... a lot of disappointment. I guess I've been waiting so long to see the gun scene animated and held such high expectations for it, that anything short of STUNNING wouldn't be enough. And it wasn't stunning. The art was a little off here and there and most importantly, the characters' expressions were off. The intensity that was in the manga just wasn't there.

One of my favorite pages in the manga:

http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/47/10/

Turned out like this:

http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Fullmeta...0Large%2034.jpg

That comparison alone makes me so sad, knowing what could have been. sad.gif This was it; what are the odds of this being animated a third time? Practically zilch. And most of the rest of the scene played out just as flatly compared to the manga as well.

If I were going to be really negative, I would even say the screenshot looks like a piece of so-so fanart next to the "real thing"! Where's the GLARE, the FIRE, in Ed's eyes??? Where's the shock on Winry's face? She almost looks bored in the screenshot when compared to the manga panel! Where's the energy, the tension, the flying debris? Where are the onlookers? And what, it's broad blue daylight? I always envisioned it as being a little more ominous, closer to dusk. It felt like the animators were just running through the motions, yet again, like they've done so many times in this new anime. We're done with the re-telling, this is all new stuff, not to mention one of THE most important scenes in the story, and to me, well, they kind of blew it. sad.gif

I also thought the flashback was extremely out of place. WTF do we leave such an important moment for, to ramble about Ishbal??? I would have much preferred to be in the dark about this mysterious brother of Scar's, just as it is in the manga. It was much more intriguing that way. Instead, we get a long-winded flashback interrupting the entire flow of energy of the scene (well, what little energy there was, at least). I have a degree in screenwriting from the top film school in the country and this just went against alllllll my instincts! tongue.gif

Music was so-so, nothing to really shock or draw you in or tense you up, nothing to really make you FEEL. It just felt like generic "oh no, something bad is happening, you should be appalled now" music. Again, a common problem in this new show... I had really hoped they were saving the GOOD music for scenes like this one, but I guess my hopes were misplaced after all. dry.gif

The positives were the voice acting (as always - go Romi! Winry, not too shabby either), the effect of the Amestrian blue eyes, and the scene of Ed prying Winry's fingers off the gun at the end. But even then, I felt like that last scene could have been even better, even more emotional. I wonder how this would have turned out if Seiji Mizushima had still been directing? Ah well, can't be helped, I guess. unsure.gif

My last desperate hope and goal is that FMA is eventually made into a live action franchise and we someday get to see this scene REALLY done justice!!! threaten.gif *sigh*



Don't feel bad at all... Sometimes I can't even watch the episodes because I am so disappointed with the art. Its like they pick and choose which scenes to make look nice, for example: Roy killing lust was incredible. But this scene is JUST as important! I mean Eds face and body language there looks like the person who drew that didn't give a crap... sleep.gif
Chiyo
*floating up on cloud nine*

In saying that I'm only there for that little added moment when Ed put's his arm on Winry's back (least thats what it looked like). That scene between them was done beautifully, but Ed's "dramatic" leap in front of her was weak.

I did think the flashback scene was long winded when placed in the middle like that. I think also perhaps you are encouraged to forgive Scar a little prematurely, when at that point you should still be pitying poor old Winry. What I did like about that scene though is how they are always making a point about the Red Eyes of the Ishval...here the made the blue eyes stand out as the evil.

Was someone strangling a cat at some point, or was it a violin? Maybe it was slightly comical cat behind the wall Scar blasts through?

Next weeks episode looks like it might be a tad drawn out. Not sure at what point in the manga that last shot of Winry is meant to be from. I'm assuming after she's been chatting to Bradley and Ed returns and she demands to be told everything. So perhaps we can assume "OMFG I wuv Edo" is on ep 24?

Overall though I'm content.
Forsaken Love
sooo from the comments people have left I was expecting this episode to be bad and i actually really enjoyed it! I'd prefer the ishbal flashback part where its meant to be but it was fine, I detect new music at ling vs bradley? well whatever i really liked it! And omg emotions running high! I shed many tears at certain parts of this, and i certainly felt much more pain for scar than I did in the manga actually, and now the episode is over I feel really good about it, not to mention very emotional over the whole thing, I'd like to say I wanted more winry hugglez ed! That was very short but I really liked how the end theme started during it, worked really well, and maybe hugglez scene shall resume next week, all in all I thought it was pretty good, I think the fact I was expecting it to be awful made it exceed my expectations, oh and i really liked the blue eye thing in the flashback

lol edit: what was with the cat in the explosion? XD haha Al should have gone to rescue it rather than chasing after Scar, how out of character! haha i joke XD was it in the manga?
TheSentinel
Loved the flash back scene. The blue eyes were a particularly nice touch.

Can't wait to see the full Ishval flashback.

A minor note: Wrath's sword broke like in the manga (good), he kept using it (good), and the animators didn't screw up and 'fix' it mid battle (good).
Mr. Deathy
QUOTE
Can't wait to see the full Ishval flashback.


I'm pretty sure it wont be shown in full.

The way they pace things they NEVER repeat scenes. You think they'll use a third of an episode on a flashback here and then show the same scenes again?

The Ishval flashback when it's meant to happen is going to be a heavily compressed summary, of the scenes not in the anime yet, if it even happens. I could still see them just moving all the other scenes from the flashback to other episodes and then just having Hawkeye, Knox and Marcoh "explain" but just skipping to the end of the story to show that the characters now know.

Anyway I liked the episode. I guess in retrospect the gun scene wasn't QUITE as powerful as the manga but the Ishval scenes were virtually perfect and I think all around everything else was handled well.

Looks like the Hohenheim cart scene is probably gone though.
edxwinryfan
OMG OMG! I just looked at the screen shots and there is EdxWinry in this episode ahhhhhh! I need a sub right now!! Can anyone PM me a link foe the sub as soon as one is out (I need one to watch not download) biggrin.gif
TheSentinel
QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Sep 6 2009, 12:20 PM) *
I'm pretty sure it wont be shown in full.

The way they pace things they NEVER repeat scenes. You think they'll use a third of an episode on a flashback here and then show the same scenes again?

The Ishval flashback when it's meant to happen is going to be a heavily compressed summary, of the scenes not in the anime yet, if it even happens. I could still see them just moving all the other scenes from the flashback to other episodes and then just having Hawkeye, Knox and Marcoh "explain" but just skipping to the end of the story to show that the characters now know.

Anyway I liked the episode. I guess in retrospect the gun scene wasn't QUITE as powerful as the manga but the Ishval scenes were virtually perfect and I think all around everything else was handled well.


It wouldn't surprise me either. While, I agree with whoever mentioned making the Isvhal flashback into its own movie, as long as they keep the key elements of the ishval flashback and keep up the good quality of said flashbacks I'll be happy.

So far both of the flashbacks have been pretty awesome.

QUOTE (edxwinryfan @ Sep 6 2009, 12:25 PM) *
OMG OMG! I just looked at the screen shots and there is EdxWinry in this episode ahhhhhh! I need a sub right now!! Can anyone PM me a link foe the sub as soon as one is out (I need one to watch not download) biggrin.gif


I recommend googling 'Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood ep. 22 sub' sometime tomorrow.

I don't recall seeing any subs until the day after. So sometime on monday, if your in the US.
edxwinryfan
No I'm not in the Us,I'm in Canada. I usually watch it on Mondays but I can't really wait this time...
TheSentinel
QUOTE (edxwinryfan @ Sep 6 2009, 12:54 PM) *
No I'm not in the Us,I'm in Canada. I usually watch it on Mondays but I can't really wait this time...


I was referring to the U.S. area timezones. Canada gets included. Good hunting for a fansub before tomorrow though, it takes some time to produce.
FailToImpress
^Yeah, I'm in the UK and I always have to wait until Monday to find a sub.
Cece
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Sep 6 2009, 04:46 AM) *
My initial thoughts:
- I never liked this Winry scene, because I always felt that, parents' death or not, Winry is too mature to raise a gun at Scar out of vengeance.


Wow. Harsh much? Look penguintruth I don't think anyone would be mature in that situation if their parents killer was right in front of them especially since he killed them and they saved his life. You're really heartless. I probably would do the same thing as Winry except I would have actually killed him.

I really liked the Ishbal flashback though I prefer this slower pacing instead of them skipping out on a lot of content. Overall I think the episode was good. I wish there had been more drama and the artists took more time to make the art better but otherwise it was good.
mellulah
You know I really loved that the flashback was mostly black and white with only a few things like the eyes and blood coloured. It really reminded me of the little girl with the red coat from Schindler's List.
Thalogens
I'm so rubbish, how could I forget today is sunday??!
Just watched the episode (minus sub ;_; bah) and I really loved the Ishval scenes, I think they done hose really well. I comletely forgot that they've actually moved the scenes closer, but I think it flowed well. The blue eyes was a great touch. The fullmetal Alchemist guy is still incredibly annoying. But this episode was still brilliant. I loved the Ranfan/Ling bit at the beginning.

c:
penguintruth
QUOTE (Cece @ Sep 6 2009, 03:20 PM) *
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Sep 6 2009, 04:46 AM) *
My initial thoughts:
- I never liked this Winry scene, because I always felt that, parents' death or not, Winry is too mature to raise a gun at Scar out of vengeance.


Wow. Harsh much? Look penguintruth I don't think anyone would be mature in that situation if their parents killer was right in front of them especially since he killed them and they saved his life. You're really heartless. I probably would do the same thing as Winry except I would have actually killed him.


Well, first of all, don't be so selective over what parts of the thread you read. If you go back, you'll se that later, I admitted she probably just snapped at that point.

And anyway, you might have shot at Scar, but I doubt you would have actually hit him. We're talking about Scar here. Trained soldiers have tried to shoot him and couldn't. Scar has hax speed.
Krokgard
I thought that today's episode would have covered all the chapters to the 48th, but they stopped a chapter-and-an-half before. Don't misunderstand, I liked that! If the results are good - and imho they are - It's a good thing that they're slowing down (even if probably today's episode didn't go very far because they stucked a piece of 15th volume in it).

The episode is really great. So intense, both in the violent scenes and the cyring scenes. The flashback is done in a very good way, personally I loved the "light blue eyes" stuff they added.
Even the grimmest Blackster on the Earth would shed a tear during the final scene.
edo little kid
Well , the ep was really great!!!
the ep make me want to cry u_u
every thing was great!!
Winry's dad & mom <3 T_T
this ep make me love winry moreeee than before rolleyes.gif !!!!
also ,The blue eyes was a great touch!!!!
the new music is Coooool !! 8D
but why the ep end in Winry&Ed part!?
I was surprised when the episode finished there?

any way , I will waiting the sub!! happy.gif

see ya~
Kyelinn
Eclipse's subs are out. I just finished watching this episode and WOW just wow...I absolutely loved the emphasis on the blue eyes of the Amestrians and the whole Ishval flashback was very well done. Poor Winry though..omg. The EdxWin fangirl in me was squeeing of course but at the same time you could just feel the pain Winry was experiencing at that very moment. I loved how they kept in Ed slowly removing each finger off the gun and then taking her hand in both of his. Just incredible. I think this is perhaps the 2nd or 3rd time I actually felt some emotion in the anime. I just wanted to cry along with Winry. I loved how it ended with Winry just breaking down in Ed's arms and then it went straight into the song. Excellent. I really did love this episode. Hopefully it's going to continue to be incredibly awesome like this from here on out!
Seeker of Truth
I just hope they put in Van's monster moment, not a scene I want to miss.
edxwinryfan
I only LOVED this episode because of the EdxWin haha tongue.gif I had to watch that part in the raw first just to see it smile.gif I was screaming with joy when Ed was holding Winry's hand and then she just jumps up and grabs his shoulder (hugs him). I just watched the sub... I CANNOT NOT WAIT FOR THE DUB!!! happy.gif rolleyes.gif Anyway I hope there is a bit more of EdxWinry in the next episode, Ed better be hugging her! (they better include him giving her his jacket and stuff...) Also I hope they don't leave out when Winry admits she loves Ed! happy.gif happy.gif wub.gif
Kyelinn
QUOTE (edxwinryfan @ Sep 6 2009, 07:40 PM) *
I only LOVED this episode because of the EdxWin haha tongue.gif I had to watch that part in the raw first just to see it smile.gif I was screaming with joy when Ed was holding Winry's hand and then she just jumps up and grabs his shoulder (hugs him). I just watched the sub... I CANNOT NOT WAIT FOR THE DUB!!! happy.gif rolleyes.gif Anyway I hope there is a bit more of EdxWinry in the next episode, Ed better be hugging her! (they better include him giving her his jacket and stuff...) Also I hope they don't leave out when Winry admits she loves Ed! happy.gif happy.gif wub.gif


From what I saw in next week's previews, Ed isn't wearing his red coat so I'm going to assume they won't leave that part out. ^_~ And I also hope they don't leave that scene out either! x3 Though I can't see why they would.
penguintruth
Some more thorough thoughts on the episode:

As much as I dislike Ling as a character, he sure knows how to cut a good action scene. And I've always liked Fuhrer King Bradley, despite him dispatching my favorite character. I would have even liked it more if they'd stretched out the scene a little. After all, they cut out the previous scene with the Xingese fighting homunculi. But oh well, it was still a pretty good scene.

I still think the whole situation is a bit ridiculous, with Winry immediately reaching for a gun and aiming it at Scar. Like she went from zero to "I'ma avenge mom and dad!" in a matter of moments and had the wherewithal to even reach for the gun. Yes, she snapped, but come on. Not to mention Ed and Al are still having way more difficulty with fighting Scar than they should.

The best part of the episode is actually my biggest issue with it, though. I love the job they did with the Ishbal flashback. Love it. The colors, the expressions, the "camera" work expressing Scar's madness. It's perfect. Amazing. I want it on DVD now.

However, by going so far into Scar's past now, and for so long, this part of the story ends up seeming to be more about Scar than Winry, when this moment should be way more Winry-oriented. Understanding of why Scar did what he did should come later. This is about Winry's initial reaction to coming face to face with her parents' killer. By having that flashback go on for so long, they dragged this out more than it should have been, too.

Now we have less for the Ishbal flashback later. I understand why they did what they did, but I think Arakawa had it slightly better.

I can't say I didn't enjoy the episode, though. It was very good. The strongest element was the voice acting. Everyone performed so well, especially Ed and Winry's VAs. I never really cared much about Winry, but by the end of the episode, I wanted to let her cry on me like Ed.
Mhacy
Just finished watching the SUB.
and it gives me a great SHOCK!xD
I mean this episode really moved me.^^
EdWin scene is just fantastic biggrin.gif
I don't really love their tandem but this episode made it changed a bit.
Poor RanFan. She had a very short screen time. . .
but overall I really love the episode
it was awesome!!
Chiyo
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Sep 7 2009, 04:09 AM) *
I still think the whole situation is a bit ridiculous, with Winry immediately reaching for a gun and aiming it at Scar. Like she went from zero to "I'ma avenge mom and dad!" in a matter of moments and had the wherewithal to even reach for the gun. Yes, she snapped, but come on. Not to mention Ed and Al are still having way more difficulty with fighting Scar than they should.


I'm inclined to agree. Riza shooting a creature that won't die over and over while weeping made sense. She has been trained to use a gun and has before.

Winry on the other hand doesn't know these weapons. She knows what they can do yes but thats a huge step from looking at one to pointing one at soomeone. For the context it was used in I think it was perfect and somehow I accepted it easier in the manga. But while everyone has pounced on Penguintruth I'm afraid I see exactly where they were coming from.

I also still think the Scar flashback, excellent as it was, was misplaced. Pity poor Winry for she in heartbroken...not show why she should forgive him already. Where she actually binds his wounds later on might have been a good point for example. Then the viewer is ready for the kidnapping scene
paperstars
QUOTE (edxwinryfan @ Sep 6 2009, 07:40 PM) *
From what I saw in next week's previews, Ed isn't wearing his red coat so I'm going to assume they won't leave that part out. ^_~ And I also hope they don't leave that scene out either! x3 Though I can't see why they would.

They better not!! happy.gif

QUOTE (penguintruth @ Sep 7 2009, 04:09 AM) *
Some more thorough thoughts on the episode:

The best part of the episode is actually my biggest issue with it, though. I love the job they did with the Ishbal flashback. Love it. The colors, the expressions, the "camera" work expressing Scar's madness. It's perfect. Amazing. I want it on DVD now.

However, by going so far into Scar's past now, and for so long, this part of the story ends up seeming to be more about Scar than Winry, when this moment should be way more Winry-oriented. Understanding of why Scar did what he did should come later. This is about Winry's initial reaction to coming face to face with her parents' killer. By having that flashback go on for so long, they dragged this out more than it should have been, too.

Now we have less for the Ishbal flashback later. I understand why they did what they did, but I think Arakawa had it slightly better.


Yeah, it was utterly epic! I agree though, Ishval kinda eclipsed Winry's moment - both of those parts of the story are so emotional to watch, it'd have been better if they'd split them up. I think I must have read the manga while half asleep, because I don't remember really understanding WHY Scar killed the Rockbells, but they really drove it home here. Best done part so far!! Big fan of the blue eyes.

Ling's growing on me, and the fight with King Bradley was amaz. We're getting to such a great part of the story, tres exciting!!!
QueenTiria
First post!!

When I first downloaded the ep and watched it, I skipped to the EdxWin parts and was absolutely horrified at the artwork. Ed looked terrible, and everything looked synthetic. But I rewatched it, and for the first time in my life, I truly understood why Scar killed Winry's parents. I honestly never got why Scar would kill them until I saw from his perspective, and I really am very very grateful for the anime to provide his point of view, as sadly, Arakawa-sensei never did and I kept on thinking Scar was a psycho. Until now, that is.
And of course, I fangirled over this EdxWin moment. For some people, MustangvsLust was the scene they waited for in the new anime. For me, it is this. And although the artwork was crap, I loved Winry's voice actress, she almost moved me to tears (again. this scene is a real tear-jerker, except I couldn't stop smiling and screaming over the sheer EdxWin the first time I watched this)
I fondly remember crying when I first read this in the manga, and Hiromu Arakawa should be hailed as THE best managaka for rendering emotion. Winry's face as she was about to shoot Scar (http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/46/44/), when she was crying (http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/47/15/) was heartbreaking. But then stupid Bones completely screwed it up. As I just accidentally deleted the rest of my message mad.gif...
Anyway, I just love this episode for switching on the metaphorical light bulb above my head. Because in my opinion, the flashback was perfectly placed. When I saw Winry again afterwards, I saw her through Scar's eyes. As a filthy Amestrian with the haunting blue eyes that killed my brother, my family, my race. And I understood his words, that it was Amestrians that first pulled the trigger. And I finally can understand why he did what he did, and realise he isn't a psycho serial-murderer. He's just a mis-understood serial-murderer.
So I can't decide whether to love this episode for Scar-enlightenment and voice acting (Winry's seiyuu rocks- almost reduced me to tears if I wasn't fangasming over EdxWin) or to hate it for the absolutely crap animation and the depiction of the EdxWin scene. I did love the music of the ending overlapping. They should do that more often. Which reminds me: isn't today the day that the full version of Miho Fukuhara's LET IT OUT comes out? Oops, off-topic. But yes. I love/hate this episode. Which I thought wasn't possible until now, really happy.gif
Kaori Ayanami
Whoever directed this episode was good. The one thing I can complain about is a specific part where Winry was starting to get mad (before she took the gun). Got to kill the person who drew her face there, as well as whoever let it happen.

It's definitely getting better. At least from espisode 18 on, if not from the 15th.

And I also got to understand much better the murder of the Rockbell couple. I'll copy here what I've already written about it at a blog.
QUOTE
Now that I’ve seen this version of Scar’s story (as opposed to the manga, I’m leaving the first anime out), I think that when he saw his brother’s arm attached to him, he kind of freaked out as would a newly made quimera. Maybe he saw the Rockbells as some mad scientists researching on him.

What I don't understad is the conversation going on in the clinic when Scar woke up. Were the Rockbells about to leave Ishval? That would be new (as it is this episode's focus on that part of the story, which I found to be stimulating).
Vagrant
Again I kind of enjoyed this episode and got into it. But again I expect to be angry when I read the manga and see what details and such they cut out. From the sounds of things, the Ishbal flashback reshuffling is probably going to piss me off.

And I also agree that the art is way too spotty in places and the cinematography always seems questionable. Especially as allykatty1 pointed out. I had similar feelings about a lot of my favourite scenes (Roy versus Lust for example, I think had similar problems) I'm not asking for a panel-by-panel retelling, but there are some shots they really should replicate.

And nitpick - Winry's crying at the end sounded really off to me. I thought Ed and Al's voices were fantastic, as usual.
For the sake of a positive note on that, I remember early on in Brotherhood, I looked up the voice actresses a bit. And afterwards I kept hearing the girl in Al's voice and other such distractions. But more recently I don't find myself watching it and thinking "Oh, that was a good performance by such-and-such", because it's just Ed and Al. It's convincing enough that I forget that there's actors behind it at all, liek.
I dunno. Maybe it's just me.

EDIT:
Already angry at the missing Hohenheim scene and the badass segue to Ling and Wrath at the end.
EDIT2:
And Ling's cheek cut was cut! And Ed saving some lady and Al apologising to the soldiers! Argh!
allykatty1
QUOTE (QueenTiria @ Sep 7 2009, 03:10 AM) *
First post!!

When I first downloaded the ep and watched it, I skipped to the EdxWin parts and was absolutely horrified at the artwork. Ed looked terrible, and everything looked synthetic. But I rewatched it, and for the first time in my life, I truly understood why Scar killed Winry's parents. I honestly never got why Scar would kill them until I saw from his perspective, and I really am very very grateful for the anime to provide his point of view, as sadly, Arakawa-sensei never did and I kept on thinking Scar was a psycho. Until now, that is.
And of course, I fangirled over this EdxWin moment. For some people, MustangvsLust was the scene they waited for in the new anime. For me, it is this. And although the artwork was crap, I loved Winry's voice actress, she almost moved me to tears (again. this scene is a real tear-jerker, except I couldn't stop smiling and screaming over the sheer EdxWin the first time I watched this)
I fondly remember crying when I first read this in the manga, and Hiromu Arakawa should be hailed as THE best managaka for rendering emotion. Winry's face as she was about to shoot Scar (http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/46/44/), when she was crying (http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/47/15/) was heartbreaking. But then stupid Bones completely screwed it up. As I just accidentally deleted the rest of my message mad.gif...
Anyway, I just love this episode for switching on the metaphorical light bulb above my head. Because in my opinion, the flashback was perfectly placed. When I saw Winry again afterwards, I saw her through Scar's eyes. As a filthy Amestrian with the haunting blue eyes that killed my brother, my family, my race. And I understood his words, that it was Amestrians that first pulled the trigger. And I finally can understand why he did what he did, and realise he isn't a psycho serial-murderer. He's just a mis-understood serial-murderer.
So I can't decide whether to love this episode for Scar-enlightenment and voice acting (Winry's seiyuu rocks- almost reduced me to tears if I wasn't fangasming over EdxWin) or to hate it for the absolutely crap animation and the depiction of the EdxWin scene. I did love the music of the ending overlapping. They should do that more often. Which reminds me: isn't today the day that the full version of Miho Fukuhara's LET IT OUT comes out? Oops, off-topic. But yes. I love/hate this episode. Which I thought wasn't possible until now, really happy.gif


Ditto on the hail to Arakawa's depiction of emotion! biggrin.gif That is the one place where this new anime is frequently failing for me - the artwork just isn't always living up to what it SHOULD be, based on the art in the manga. *sigh* But like you, I can't help but still fundamentally love it for the story (still Arakawa's FMA, after all) and the voice acting, which is always excellent.

I just watched the ep again, in HD with subtitles this time, and have calmed a bit from my initial disappointment, but maintain that the lacking art really impacted the EdWin scene for me... BECAUSE I love it so much is why I was so disappointed. It was also my Big Scene I was waiting to see animated; why couldn't it have gotten the same treatment Mustang/Lust did?!?! It certainly was just as, if not more, important. It is one of the top few defining moments in the entire manga (and my #1 personal favorite, out of the existing chapters). But I still do love the episode in the end, no matter what, because it is what it is (even if they could have executed it better).

I also LOVE the execution of the Ishbal sequence. I had already understood why Scar killed the Rockbells just fine, but the way the ep played it out really did drive it home. However, I still question its' placement right in the middle of the gun scene. I would rather things stayed focused on Winry for now and later we find out why Scar is the way he is. I wouldn't change anything about the awesome Ishbal bit except that I would have moved it to somewhere else in a later episode... or heck, even at the very beginning of this episode might have been fine. I just didn't like it interrupting the gun scene so jarringly. o_O
RoyxRizaFan
Wow! Brotherhood has had two amazing episodes in a row!

I actually liked that they showed more of the Ishbal flashback in this episode. I think it really added to the affect. The voice acting was amazing, and they didn't cut anything...it was just a really awesome episode!!!

I really liked the blue eye thing, and how they showed Scar losing it. That was awesome.

And EdWin!!!! I was going crazy over the adorable EdWin! I love this chapter/episode!!!

So yeah. This episode PWNed XDDDD
Nzm
WOW, this episode was AWESOME! And if anyone still thinks that Brotherhood is less emotional... well... no comment. The Scar memories was so great example of extreme actions of people in extreme situations. The blue-eyed soldiers looked very World War II, you know, the whole idea of 'Aryan beauty'. Winry's behaviour was very heart-moving. And hooray for some EdXWin. Wow, I'm still amazed. Probably the best episode if we talk about emotion (some of them ad better action or storyline, but none was so emotional). I hope that we'll have a few darker EPs now (I like the humour, but this anime needs some more darkness).
Jen_Elric
Well! This episode is now my second fave (next to 19)! I LOVED IT!!

I actually didn't pay attention to the artwork. Maybe that was a good thing, from what I was reading...

The Ling/Wrath fight was great! They kept in some stuff I thought they would cut. Like Ling cutting off the top of Gluttony's head, and the "light bomb" scene. Yes, I know they stopped showing the rest of the fight to show the Scar scene's, but from the preview, looks like we'll get the rest next episode.

I love Winry's VA. Her screaming "Why did you kill them?!" (other something like that), hit my heart and made me teary eyed.
What I didn't like (and it's the only thing too), was that they cut away from a pivitol scene to do the flachback. It seemed REALLY out of place.

But, as out of place as it was, it was an awesome scene! I loved how they had the blue eyes glowing and they had alchemy colored too. The scene was well done, especially Scar's VA and the "camera" shots when he went "mad".

The scene where Ed leaps in front of Winry was good. Not as powerful as in the manga, but I think I know why. In the manga, the "camera" shot is from above, by Scar's shoulder, but in the anime, it's by Scar's feet. We get a better look at the look on Ed's face from above, for some reason. I kinda wish Bones left it that way.

Winry's crying in Ed's arms had me crying! Winry's VA rocks!

The emotions were so high in this episode. First, you feel bad for Winry, and hate Scar. Then, during and after the flashback, you feel bad for Scar. Then he tries to attack Winry, so you hate him again. And when Winry cries in Ed's arms, you feel bad for her more. lol

Can't wait for next week!
zonkiethegreat
WOW...What a well made episode! I LOVED IT! The entire flashback was just AMAZING!!!
Blue_Haven
Man, I wish they would go after all the other episodes with the same gusto they used for ep. 19. I think one of the main reasons that scene was so well done was that Arakawa herself had voiced that she was anticipating seeing the Roy vs. Lust scene animated. Of course they wanted it to live up to her expectations.
This series would be absolutely phenomenal if they just followed the manga a bit more closely and maybe bumped up the production values a bit. (Though I do realize it's not as simple as that, time and money are of course a huge factor in the animation business.) You'd just think that if they were going to go through all the trouble of making a whole new series they would take their time and do it right ya know?

Overall, this was a pretty nice episode! The artwork wasn't as bad as past episodes and it was paced rather well. I think it would have had a bit more impact if they had kept the onlookers and the MP's in the scene though. One of the good points was Scar's flashback. Though a bit misplaced, it was handled really well. I especially loved the blue-eyed Amestrians. But the scene when Ed jumps in front of Winry...kinda lame. I was expecting them to handle that way better being the defining scene in the chapter and all. It could of been really intense but ended up being all awkward and anti-climatic. Kinda disappointing.sad.gif
And the gun...that was just kinda chillin'...in the middle of nowhere...in the perfect spot for Winry to pick it up...annoyed me. :/ In the manga Arakawa has a passed-out MP laying next to the gun that makes it more obvious as to where the gun came from. It just made it seem less out-of-place to me. Eh, but overall they did a pretty good job. (The part where Winry starts crying into Ed's chest was so sweet.) :')
Red Kitty
Yay, sub's out! biggrin.gif. Better than last week's awful translations, at least.

It was a so-so episode - in all honesty, I preferred last week's episode. The pace is definitely slowing down a bit - can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing yet.

I was personally a big fan of Winry's gun scene, but they seriously screwed up all the emotion and tension aspects of it. Perhaps a very quick flashback would have been more effective (as in literally, a very fast zoom into Winry's face and into her eyes, and flashes (yes, a 'flash' back) of her life with her parents before they went away, her parents leaving, and a funeral, images flashing faster as they went? That would have given the impression of her 'snapping'. Maybe then going back to Winry's stunned face, and smoothly rotating to Scar's? I think that would have been more dramatic than the longer flashback that was there).

The shots and cinematography used in general ruined the whole thing (because the VA in this episode was amazing). Not effective at all. Like Winry's 'why?' line was just a shot of her kneeling normally - no interesting or effective angle (maybe a shot of just her lips moving instead, maybe going to scar looking stunned while she talks). Frankly, that scene could have been amazing, but it sucked. The art also suffered huge lapses in quality at times, and didn't really pull it off. The quality actually distracted me a lot.

The gun annoyed me immensely. Firstly it came out of nowhere (plot hole much?), and in the second half of the episode, she held onto it for far too long - it felt like she was milking it a bit. Not convincing. Winry should have darkened the tone a little when she grabbed the gun, maybe after her hands shook, she grabs it tightly, and when she looks up to scar, showing her face, you see her tears and her vulnerability showing though via facial expression rather than from wherever it did come from. I didn't feel sorry for her, like in the manga - it felt more like annoying angst than an actual breakdown. There was also music in the background at one point, which could have worked (it was quite good and effective, actually) if the art and the shots were sorted out.

I loved the Ishabal flashbacks though. Brilliant, done extremely well. The blue eyes were awesomely, awesomely effective. Scar's waking up moment in the hospital was great (you got the feeling it was a real makeshift hospital, it felt somewhat real with people moving about), and it gave a little insight about scar. I really, really hope this doesn't mean detracting time from the Ishabal chapters proper (I hope they spend as much on those scenes as Mustang vs. Lust, and hope the hachet job of the gun scene will be replaced with an awesome Ishabal flashback in general. I personally loved that chapter (or were they chapters?), so i hope they don't cut much there).

And then we have the EdxWin moments. If there's one thing I hate about EdWin, it's how forced it is. It felt forced a little in this episode too. Ed's diving in front of Winry' was rather lame and cliché (it could have actually been done effectively, and pulled off, if they'd sorted out the cinematography and the issues with art *sigh*). Al was a bit of a jerk afterwards with his line on risking heir lives it seemed. Watching it, I wish EdxWin was actually an unrequited love and an infatuation on Winry's side (would flow and work better, as well as be generally more interesting plotwise). I'm a bit biased on this episode, because I've realised I'm not really an EdWin fan (prefer AlxWin), so the slightly obvious hints annoy me (unlike the Royai ones in episode 19, which whilst obvious, didn't annoy me as much). Although the moment was actually done quite well, with the close-up on Ed holding Winry's arm, and Winry is his arms crying at the end. I think the credits music gradually coming in was slightly less effective than in episode 19 - the moment was supposed to be a bit of quiet after the storm.

And the VA was amazing, like I said.
Mr. Deathy
QUOTE
The gun annoyed me immensely. Firstly it came out of nowhere (plot hole much?)


One of the soldiers that was waiting for permission to engage Scar drops it when they get blasted back by the dust cloud I think.
Kyelinn
QUOTE (Red Kitty)
And then we have the EdxWin moments. If there's one thing I hate about EdWin, it's how forced it is. It felt forced a little in this episode too. Ed's diving in front of Winry' was rather lame and cliché (it could have actually been done effectively, and pulled off, if they'd sorted out the cinematography and the issues with art *sigh*). Al was a bit of a jerk afterwards with his line on risking heir lives it seemed. Watching it, I wish EdxWin was actually an unrequited love and an infatuation on Winry's side (would flow and work better, as well as be generally more interesting plotwise). I'm a bit biased on this episode, because I've realised I'm not really an EdWin fan (prefer AlxWin), so the slightly obvious hints annoy me (unlike the Royai ones in episode 19, which whilst obvious, didn't annoy me as much). Although the moment was actually done quite well, with the close-up on Ed holding Winry's arm, and Winry is his arms crying at the end. I think the credits music gradually coming in was slightly less effective than in episode 19 - the moment was supposed to be a bit of quiet after the storm.

And the VA was amazing, like I said.


*cough* Even though you prefer AlxWin, it's not happening *cough* EdxWin is actually the canon couple in this story, no matter how much it annoys you. Better get used to seeing the EdxWin moments coming up in this anime. Al and Winry don't have the chemistry that Ed and Winry do...they never have. Just out of curiosity, have you read the manga? Also, how is EdxWin forced? Arakawa plays it out just right and of course he dove in front of Winry. She had a serial killer about ready to take her out. I'm sure he wasn't about to let somebody extremely important to him just get killed like that. Plus it was part of the plot to take Scar hesitate as he remembered his brother doing the same for him. Also if it were unrequited, no I'm sorry but I disagree. It wouldn't work better. I don't quite see how you see it that way, but whatever. You know, I think you're the first person I've seen actually complain about EdxWin in this story and it's canon. laugh.gif
Mistress of Misery
QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Sep 7 2009, 05:48 PM) *
QUOTE
The gun annoyed me immensely. Firstly it came out of nowhere (plot hole much?)


One of the soldiers that was waiting for permission to engage Scar drops it when they get blasted back by the dust cloud I think.


Yes, but in the manga, it was clearer as to where the gun came from since there was an unconscious MP right next to Winry.

Anyway. Initial impressions were fairly positive, although the art was kind of iffy. Ling vs Wrath was great, the flashback itself was pretty amazing (although poorly placed), the VAs actually made me forget about the bleh art for a few moments, and the very last scene with Ed and Winry was pretty well done (and I don't even ship EdWin). Everything else was mediocre at best. I really wish the focus had been more on Winry in this episode; the manga made my heart clench for her, but here it's just kind of...angsty with no real substance.

Still, that flashback. <3
Elle-chan
I started crying. When i saw this episode
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