RoyxRizaFan
Apr 26 2009, 03:51 PM
Yes, this episode was win. It kicked old anime @$$. And I loved how they put in the little thing about Yoki. And showing Gran die, this version totally contrasted with how Arakawa said it happened in her extras LMAO
It was, as mentioned before, a lot more emotional this time around. I was finding myself hating Tucker even more than before, and I felt even worse for Nina. Though I always want to cry after this.
I liked Ed kicking the watch and was waiting for Al's line, but it went fine without it, IMO
Sword Alchemist
Apr 26 2009, 04:28 PM
It was so cool to see Maria Ross and Denny Brosh in this episode.
Nina was so adorable. This episode was so sad.
Radadinator
Apr 26 2009, 04:51 PM
They finally did it.
Best episode so far.
For all of the reasons already mentioned here. ;____;
Also, the art was beautiful. Looked sort of like watercolor.
SonPan
Apr 26 2009, 08:06 PM
Just watched the episode... and i must say, AMAZING episode!
I read saw this in the manga long back so the old series was more fresh in my mind so I was moved to bits with the dialogue!, Nina crying... and OMG Edward's expression and Romi's VA made this episode PERFECT!
I was in tears again

Also the part where Ed is in the rain, I just love that line, and his eyes when he noticed Nina was just SO heartbreaking! OMG gave me goosebumps
ALso the part where it showed Ed and Al peeking through the door watching they're dad and then Ed deciding to play was sweet

This episode Alll in ALL had everything
Scar's new voice seems to suit him well as well
Vagrant
Apr 26 2009, 08:21 PM
Definitely one of the better episodes so far.
I agree with Ed in the rain being pretty cool.
Also: EPIC DOG.
Just wish that they hadn't made Tucker so blatantly evil before we find out what he did. Y'know, for people that are watching this without seeing the manga or the original series liek.
By the way, my memory is really fuzzy on the early manga chapters...Did Scar kill Basque Grand or whatever in the manga? From what I recall, he was only ever seen in Ishbal flashbacks or something.
Oh, and I think Scar's alchemy should mess up faces a bit more graphically.
Jen_Elric
Apr 26 2009, 08:52 PM
OMG, so fantastic!!
This episode was the best so far. I just loved every moment. The narration in the beginning didn't bother me at all.
I really enjoyed Scar's intro and Gran's death. I never liked GRan anyways, so the quicker he goes, the better. XD
I loved seeing Maria! But, I"m gonna have to keep my eye's open when I watch the episode again, cuz I don't remember seeing Denny.><
I was a little worried that we wouldn't get much of a bond as viewers with Nina and Alexander, but I was glad that we did. Nina was just too cute! That 9-year-old did an excellent job!
The whole scene with Tucker and Ed (after we see Chimera!Nina) was sad and awesome. The whole thing was straight from the manga! The looks on Ed's face was spot-on.
The rain scene blew me away! When Ed said "We're Human beings, who couldn't save a little girl" (or something close to that), I was like "OMG! Exactly like the manga!!!".
When Chimera!Nina touched Tucker hand, started crying and saying, "Tou-san...Tou-san" ("Daddy...Daddy"), I started crying. I NEVER cried during those Tucker/Nina episodes from the first series!
This episode was my fave, even though I hate Tucker. I was glad that they didn't show Scar killing Chimera!Nina. I knew they wouldn't but I was a little nervous that they would.
Next episode will be great! I can't wait to see Roy sulk in a corner cuz he was told he was "Useless". XD
Kale Mustang
Apr 26 2009, 09:00 PM
Just finished watching and I'm already dreading transcribing the Funimation subs (it'll still be done though!)
They did a fantastic job with this episode as it definitely matched the the tone of the manga (it did for me at least) and I loved how some of the environments looked like paintings (reminds me of the canvas-look from Valkyria Chronicles).
Despite knowing what was coming, my stomach still knotted up upon seeing Chimera!Nina...
Seeing Scar again was great, and I don't know if anyone else felt this way, but I thought that his kills were way more graphic (more in line with the manga) this time around versus series one.
Also great seeing Mustang's team, the new voices seem to fit them better, but it's still hard to tell.
Sword Alchemist
Apr 26 2009, 09:15 PM
QUOTE (Jen_Elric @ Apr 26 2009, 10:52 PM)

I loved seeing Maria! But, I"m gonna have to keep my eye's open when I watch the episode again, cuz I don't remember seeing Denny.><
Denny was in the scene where Bradley shows up during the investagation of Basque Gran's death.
Rainshine
Apr 26 2009, 09:35 PM
I just watched it!!
Great Episode!!!
The Nina Part of both animes and the manga creep me out sooo much!

I can't wait until episode 5!!
amestris_star
Apr 26 2009, 10:19 PM
I'm really happy that this episode has brought a positive feel around the series. Like I said elsewhere, if the series continues with this episode's rendition of the manga, I seriously am of the opinion that the epicness of it all will be immense, particularly when the new manga material will be animated.
And someone's comment on Alexander (EPIC DOG) just made my day: that canine made me laugh like crazy XDD
Haineko
Apr 26 2009, 10:25 PM
QUOTE (amestris_star @ Apr 26 2009, 10:19 PM)

I'm really happy that this episode has brought a positive feel around the series. Like I said elsewhere, if the series continues with this episode's rendition of the manga, I seriously am of the opinion that the epicness of it all will be immense, particularly when the new manga material will be animated.
And someone's comment on Alexander (EPIC DOG) just made my day: that canine made me laugh like crazy XDD
Agreed, I also think this series can only get better. I can understand why so many people were dissatisfied with the first three episodes, but I also do think a lot of it was overreacting. Hopefully people will give FMA:B a chance, I'm confident it'll be epic like you said by the end
amestris_star
Apr 26 2009, 10:34 PM
QUOTE (Haineko @ Apr 27 2009, 07:25 AM)

QUOTE (amestris_star @ Apr 26 2009, 10:19 PM)

I'm really happy that this episode has brought a positive feel around the series. Like I said elsewhere, if the series continues with this episode's rendition of the manga, I seriously am of the opinion that the epicness of it all will be immense, particularly when the new manga material will be animated.
And someone's comment on Alexander (EPIC DOG) just made my day: that canine made me laugh like crazy XDD
Agreed, I also think this series can only get better. I can understand why so many people were dissatisfied with the first three episodes, but I also do think a lot of it was overreacting. Hopefully people will give FMA:B a chance, I'm confident it'll be epic like you said by the end

Exactly. And you have to remember that this comes after another series (that has been a mass success, not with me however, but that's another story...) so starting-up for FMA2 has been tougher for sure. Considering that they're animating events that have been already shown is difficult.
However, this episode I think has made the difference now... or at least has started. If this has shown how it shall be continuing, like I said, I'm definitely going to be more than pleased
Alzea
Apr 27 2009, 12:23 AM
Yeah, epic loldog is epic

I luv him~
Yesterday night I finally watched this with proper subs, as I said earlier - amazing~! Can't wait till next ep. It is going to be better and better soon it'll be "epic FMA:B is epic" and nobody will disagree with this^^
Imbris
Apr 27 2009, 02:31 AM
Great episode. Perfect pacing and just unbelievable animation. I still can't believe how polished this series has been. The music fit perfectly with each scene and some scenes were rightfully heart-wrenching.
We got our answer about Youswell, which wasn't too shocking. That story was amusing, but not necessary (aside from Yoki).
I think this series is about to "take off."
Hagaren_4ever
Apr 27 2009, 04:30 AM
QUOTE (Vagrant @ Apr 26 2009, 11:21 PM)

By the way, my memory is really fuzzy on the early manga chapters...Did Scar kill Basque Grand or whatever in the manga?
http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/6/21/There was a brief mention in the last panel. Easily forgettable.
Vagrant
Apr 27 2009, 05:59 AM
Ah, so it was never seen. That would account for it then. Thanks for the info.
I also just wanted to mention that I really liked the choral music towards the end. (with Ed beating Tucker and the scene afterwards)
Quelled my worries about the lack of "Brothers" and that sad piano song "rakuyou" from the original series.
Jen_Elric
Apr 27 2009, 07:59 AM
QUOTE (Sword Alchemist @ Apr 27 2009, 12:15 AM)

QUOTE (Jen_Elric @ Apr 26 2009, 10:52 PM)

I loved seeing Maria! But, I"m gonna have to keep my eye's open when I watch the episode again, cuz I don't remember seeing Denny.><
Denny was in the scene where Bradley shows up during the investagation of Basque Gran's death.
Thank you, Sword Alchemist!! Now I know where to look when I watch the Funi subs!
lunneth
Apr 27 2009, 08:45 AM
okay. lets evaluate. ep 4 was still as good as the others but what this series has done so far is reject the same sense of awe and angst we had last series. scar's destruction alchemy was a dissapointment. not that i'm a gore fanatic but i think it hasn't bee as graphically violent as the last series, one of the things of which made it what it was. i also found how they rushed most of the small details that the last series had in eps 5 and 6 to be an annoyance. it wasn't all bad though. suprisingly, the after effects of scars alchemy was more fullfilling and tasteful. it was an unusually large amount of blood for two bodies though. any way the story was good enough but i think they could have put more emphasis on how angry ed was at shou. last series he was extremly beaten, this series he was less and plus ed didn't seem right. the red coat added something to his position which i found more likely for him to act in such a way in, in the last series. plus nina could have been more child like. she was meant to be younger in this series cause when ed goes to get his automail fixed in series one he was 15 but in this he was the same age. it just felt wierd. any way. rant over. not all bad but needs alot of improvment.
mira mirth
Apr 27 2009, 08:52 AM
QUOTE (Lunneth elric @ Apr 27 2009, 06:45 PM)

what this series has done so far is reject the same sense of awe and angst we had last series.
See, I don't
want awe and angst. I agree that there is less of both and it makes me very happy, because lack of awe, angst and emo is what makes it more similar to the manga.
That said, I felt this episode had a huge amount of angst, especially if you knew what was coming. Poor Nina =( It never gets easier for me.
lunneth
Apr 27 2009, 09:44 AM
well i think it just makes fma what it is. besides emo's being depressed is just a steryotype. emo is a style of music and fashion, not a describing word. besides it gives the series more tragedy which is what does make fma what it is.
Hagane no Baka
Apr 27 2009, 09:48 AM
QUOTE (Lunneth elric @ Apr 27 2009, 09:45 AM)

okay. lets evaluate. ep 4 was still as good as the others but what this series has done so far is reject the same sense of awe and angst we had last series. scar's destruction alchemy was a dissapointment. not that i'm a gore fanatic but i think it hasn't bee as graphically violent as the last series, one of the things of which made it what it was.
That's why I actually prefer it this time around. You don't have to be overly dramatic with introducing dark and mysterious characters. I like how they tuned it down a bit with Scar. His rough and destructive nature will show itself soon enough, let it creep out slowly

QUOTE (Lunneth elric @ Apr 27 2009, 09:45 AM)

...i think they could have put more emphasis on how angry ed was at shou. last series he was extremly beaten, this series he was less and plus ed didn't seem right. the red coat added something to his position which i found more likely for him to act in such a way in, in the last series.
Well when he was beating the hell out of Shou, he didn't seem like the calmest guy in the universe. It was rather the opposite. But if you're reffering to his reaction at the end of the ep, when he was sitting on the stairs, then I guess I understand, where you're coming from. Ed cried after the Nina incindent in the 1st series, which in the manga (if my memory is correct), he didn't do. That's why I prefer the 2nd series' version coz it matches the manga. Besides I prefer this in general too; even if Ed didn't cry, his depressed, beaten demenour showed he was hurt beyond crying.
QUOTE (Lunneth elric @ Apr 27 2009, 09:45 AM)

...plus nina could have been more child like. she was meant to be younger in this series cause when ed goes to get his automail fixed in series one he was 15 but in this he was the same age. it just felt wierd. any way. rant over. not all bad but needs alot of improvment.
Well I actually liked how they made her older. That way they avoided using the old 'the younger it is, the more sorry you feel for it' cliché.
Becca-chan
Apr 27 2009, 10:01 AM
QUOTE (Hagane no Baka @ Apr 27 2009, 05:48 PM)

QUOTE (Lunneth elric @ Apr 27 2009, 09:45 AM)

...i think they could have put more emphasis on how angry ed was at shou. last series he was extremly beaten, this series he was less and plus ed didn't seem right. the red coat added something to his position which i found more likely for him to act in such a way in, in the last series.
Well when he was beating the hell out of Shou, he didn't seem like the calmest guy in the universe. It was rather the opposite. But if you're reffering to his reaction at the end of the ep, when he was sitting on the stairs, then I guess I understand, where you're coming from. Ed cried after the Nina incindent in the 1st series, which in the manga (if my memory is correct), he didn't do. That's why I prefer the 2nd series' version coz it matches the manga. Besides I prefer this in general too; even if Ed didn't cry, his depressed, beaten demenour showed he was hurt beyond crying.
QUOTE (Lunneth elric @ Apr 27 2009, 09:45 AM)

...plus nina could have been more child like. she was meant to be younger in this series cause when ed goes to get his automail fixed in series one he was 15 but in this he was the same age. it just felt wierd. any way. rant over. not all bad but needs alot of improvment.
Well I actually liked how they made her older. That way they avoided using the old 'the younger it is, the more sorry you feel for it' cliché.
To be honest, I didn't even realise that Nina was older than what she was in the original anime. O.o
She still seemed like the same little girl that she's always been, at least to me she did anyway.
FailToImpress
Apr 27 2009, 10:07 AM
^I thought Nina looked about 4 or 5...how old actually was she?
Anyhow, I really liked this episode...something about the way it was done made it seem a whole lot creepier. On the other side, I liked the humour with Ed and Alexander.
Kyelinn
Apr 27 2009, 10:16 AM
QUOTE (Lunneth elric @ Apr 27 2009, 09:45 AM)

...i think they could have put more emphasis on how angry ed was at shou. last series he was extremly beaten, this series he was less and plus ed didn't seem right. the red coat added something to his position which i found more likely for him to act in such a way in, in the last series.
QUOTE (Becca-chan)
Well when he was beating the hell out of Shou, he didn't seem like the calmest guy in the universe. It was rather the opposite. But if you're reffering to his reaction at the end of the ep, when he was sitting on the stairs, then I guess I understand, where you're coming from. Ed cried after the Nina incindent in the 1st series, which in the manga (if my memory is correct), he didn't do. That's why I prefer the 2nd series' version coz it matches the manga. Besides I prefer this in general too; even if Ed didn't cry, his depressed, beaten demenour showed he was hurt beyond crying.
If you remember Ed didn't cry, and hasn't cried yet, in the manga. I think there's a reason behind that, because delving later on into the manga, Al says something about all he and his brother needed was a good cry, but that he couldn't cry with his body even if he wanted to. Then later, Winry says something about Ed having a body that CAN cry, but won't. If Arakawa has something planned for Ed like that later in the manga, then I'd expect them (meaning the anime creators) not to make Ed cry in circumstances such as that. Also, in the first anime series, Ed was only 12 years old when Nina was killed, where as now he's 15, a bit older and little more mature. Also, Ed was really REALLY angsty in the FMA1 compared to the manga...just my opinion and analysis on the whole 'crying' thing.
TBH Lunneth, I think you need to put FMA1 out of your mind when watching this, because the circumstances with Nina, Scar and Ed going back to Resembool to get his automail fixed are WAY different than this. In FMA1 Ed was only 12, then later the Barry the Chopper incident happened, and then the series jumped ahead to Ed being 15 and later on meeting Scar and THEN getting his automail busted. In FMA1 Scar was going around killing State Alchemists for 3 years until he finally found Edward. FMA1 holds no relevance to the manga or this new anime in regards to that.
His Name is Unknown
Apr 27 2009, 10:37 AM
Disclaimer: This is going to be a long post, so please consider this my apology in advance
Geeze - this episode took me forever to find in high quality with subtitles; however, I have to say it was well worth the wait.
As I have stated on other threads, I
had harbored an overall feeling of disappointment toward the direction of the initial episodes and considered the Nina arc to be a 'make or break' moment for my continued enjoyment of the show. In light of this past trend of disappointment, I'm happy to see that they really nailed the feel of FMA with this episode. The pacing was perfect; definitely faster than FMA1, but right in line with the manga. Self reference was kept to a minimum, and contrary to what have some on this thread have said, I did not think Tucker's sinister nature was over-emphasized; if anything, this criticism is more an example of prior plot knowledge shaping expectations of episode content. Nothing in the script or the images of Brotherhood episode four suggested that Tucker was a negative character; on the contrary, his portrayal was neutral, bordering on sympathetic. It wasn't until the growing sense of unease generated by Tucker's eyeglasses silhouetted against the darkened laboratory was confirmed by that roll of thunder that the depths of his desensitization came to light. In contrast, FMA1 had far more hints about Tucker's behavior than Brotherhood (cf. the burning of the letter, the discovery that Tucker had been lying about his wife's past, the shot of 'monster Tucker' opening the door to his labs).
Also, While I'm dealing with the issue of pace and direction, let me add that I took some time to start re-reading the manga and realized just how little Trisha is mentioned in the initial chapters and how quickly the fundamental story points are laid bare. I still hold that episode two could have been done better, but at the same time I can't really say it's being unfaithful to the source material. I'm beginning to see a trend with the direction of Brotherhood in that the military/taboo/state alchemist elements of the story are being granted precedence over the emotional/relational aspects in the initial scope of the narrative focus. In past posts, I had identified this trend as a negative one, citing the new director's reliance on 'abstract plot movers' over human drama as the basis for progressing the Elric's story. However, with the contextual aid provided by the continuing narrative, it is becoming apparent that the directorial intent is concerned first and foremost with grounding the audience in the abstract tenants of Arakawa's universe before using the forces of the FMA world as a contrast to the human element of the brother's commitment and perseverance. Such a tactic makes perfect sense in light of the director's repeated comments that what he found most endearing about the characters
was their perseverance. I'm now confident that part of the negative reception of the initial episodes is due to a clash of worldview: namely, the overriding sense of 'hope' present in Arakawa's work versus the more tragic, 'realistic' approach of Seiji Mizushima which pervaded the original anime (even as I edit this, I see a discussion is developing over this very issue between Lunneth Elric and Winter Chanterelle).
To recap, the message of FMA1 can be summarized by the chapter title of its final episode: Laws and Promises," or to put it another way, 'perservence in spite of the cruel reality that dreams do not always come true' (cf. the lyrics of the fourth opening Rewrite: "Return from the brink and rewrite it; Even meaningless figments of imagination can be the driving force that gives you form"). In stark contrast, the FMA manga has always maintained a positive outlook in spite of controversy. At this point in the manga story, equivalent exchange shows no signs of being proven as a promise rather than a law as it was in season one - rather Arakawa is advocating that hard work and compassion pay off, and that revenge is never a proper motivation.
Although the first four episodes ARE a highly condensed version of the themes of FMA, I felt that the sense of movement which so characterizes the manga was successfully conveyed through both the art direction/animation and the script. The intercutting of Roy/Riza's dialogue to Winry/Ed in episode two was an effective way to establish that the Elrics would move forward in spite of the 'river of mud' that awaited them on their long journey. When considered in light of Ed's declarative 'one year' response to Pinako or Mustang's dialogue with Ed on the stairs in episode four, it is clear that the director of the new season has demonstrated his grasp on the core theme of the FMA manga: namely, optimism and perseverance in the face of seemingly insurmountable situations. Another benefit of the condensed plot, albeit an accidental one, is the direct contrast of episode three and four, where Ed goes from hubris of proclaiming himself a hero close to the level of a god to an uncertain child, lost in the rain. In the original story, this contrast was obscured by the presence of the Youswell and train incidents; not so in FMA:Brotherhood.
So much for my analysis of the over-arching plot forces at work; now for a discussion of the episode itself:
Loved:
1.) How the music playing when Ed and Al play with Nina/Alexander slowly fades to an echo as the camera switches to show Shou's conflict. Gave me chills the first time I saw it.
2.) The excellent condensing of Youswell's thematic material (alchemist of the people vs. human weapons for the state) through Armstrong's speech about the state alchemists. This episode did a great job portraying the 'hell' mentioned between Mustang and Roy in episode as well as in setting up the complexities behind Scar's actions. Perhaps these alchemists really have strayed from God's path and must perish.
3.) That roll of thunder when Ed realizes what Tucker has done. So sad.
4.) The music during the sequence on the stairs of Eastern HQ. Brilliantly composed sequence, with a nice allusion to the alchemists' descent into hell as Mustang walks down the stairs.
5.) Nina and Alexander were so cute. Great little voice actress as well.
6.) Great use of flashback connecting Ed/Al's childhood with Nina/Alexander
7.) "But still, we're not devils, let alone gods. We're humans...WE'RE HUMANS!!!" (Wow Romi, wow. Good stuff!)
...not so much:
1.) The Shou/watch thing; I understand it was emphasizing the dubious nature of the state alchemists, but I thought it was a bit heavy handed and detracted from the more three dimensional Shou that we got in FMA1
2.) Could have done a little more with Scar's alchemic decomposition. Not bad, but could have been better.
3.) Didn't like that they skipped Youswell
Edamame
Apr 27 2009, 11:23 AM
Wow, so I just watched episode four and must say that I am thoroughly pleased. I have to admit that instead of feeling an overwhelming sense of sadness while watching the episode, I felt more of a constant sense of dread, because I knew in the back of my mind what was to be the fate of poor Nina. I believe that the directors did a superb job of building up this emotion of foreboding, by carefully droping hints that gave the viewers a deeper insight into Shou Tucker´s flucuation between a father who dearly loved his child and a "devil" who toys with human life for personal gain. (More on this latter.) I love how Scar was introduced to the viewer in a brief yet highly intense battle scene againt the State Alchemist Basque Gran; this scene foreshadows Scar´s intent to eliminate all state alchemists who he considers sinners in the eyes of God.
At first glance, I loved how Shou Tucker appeared to be a normal man who loved his daughter, but was just plain down on his luck. However, the directors did quite a nice job of dropping subtle hints regarding the other half of Shou´s personality. For instance, even the pile of dirty dishes in the sink and his lab filled with horrific chimeras gone wrong serve to show the audience that something truly is not right with this man and all is not what it seems. Shou is such a fascinating character is my mind, because he represents the desire to obtain a goal solely for personal gain, regardless of what unorthodox routes are taken to get there. I was really glad that the directors included a brief exchange between Maes Hughes and Alex Armstrong over many alchemists´ desires to became a state alchemist only for the numerous priveleges and repute.
I found Nina is this episode to be absolutely endearing. It was heart-wrenching to hear her encourage her father who she loves to death, only to know what will befall her latter. I adored the scene where she is playing outside with Edward and Alphonse, and Edward transmutes his automail and proceeds to chase her around the yard. This scene juxtaposed so well with the brief glimpse that we get of an extremely angquished Shou Tucker. I thought that the scene where the brothers and Nina were playing without a care was so sweet, because you got to see Edward and Alphonse as two teenagers simply being teenagers. Sadly, the viewer gets an inkling after catching that brief glimpse of Shou, that this happiness won´t last for long.
The scene where Ed realizes that Shou created a chimera out of his own daughter for his own selfish gain, was both heart-wrenching and extremely disturbing at the same. I was on edge when Shou told Edward that what he and his brother did to their beloved mother was "toying" with human life just like he had done to both his wife and daughter; as I viewer I had to agree that Shou´s words held some sense of truth, although the Elric brothers had an entirely different motivation- that of love, and wanting to see their mother again. I thought that intensity is this scene was heighted by Romi Pak-san´s incredible voice talents that added so much raw emotion to Ed´s character and really brought him to life in this scene. Nina asking her father if he was in pain, added all the more to the tragedy. Shou is made all the more inhuman when he states that he still has time to show of his creation and therefore not lose his title.
I thought that Mustang´s exchange with Edward during the "rain scene" was handled perfectly. I found it interesting how Mustang said that what Shou had done did not differ greatly from the rest of the state alchemist who are required to take human life at a mere order. ( I think that Edward´s line: "We are neither devils nor gods at that- We´re just humans!!" is such a powerful line that fits so well with the themes in the series.) Despite Edward´s heartbreak over what happened to Nina, and his inability to prevent it, I love how Mustang told him that he is the one who chose to walk down this dark path, and would have to soil his own hands many more times just to continue onward. We all know how many more tragedies the brothers will ultimately have to contend with, yet we also know that they will continue onward toward that one glimmer of hope.
Overall, I am thoroughly pleased! Great animation, music, pacing, and dialogue. I am really looking forward to the next episode
Becca-chan
Apr 27 2009, 12:03 PM
Just to say ( I'll bet people are wishing that I'd just shut up about it now ^^; ) that I kept thinking about this episode over and over last night...I guess it must of affected me deeper than what I thought. ^^;
Although I refuse to say that this version is better than the first anime's version, it did still manage to strike an emotional chord with me...but I feel guilty in saying that I didn't cry like I did at the end of the original anime's version. < : (
I've had to at least find comfort in another anime ( Gregory Horror Show, how I also adore you so) I'm watching just to get rid of the tense feeling in my stomach...but every time I think about this episode, the feeling comes right back.
But now that I can at least think a bit more clearly...I still don't hate Shou for what he did.
And now that I look at it...I actually find the watch scene to be more sadder than expected...but in a really pathetic way.
Sure he brought it upon himself, but all he really had left then was the watch ( sadly...I've been making fun of that unfortunate moment since yesterday, so that does at times kill the more dubious meaning that he had an ulterior motive, for me) it kind of reminded me more of a child with a cherished teddy bear...
If anything, I'm still trying to see the man that did it because there was no other option available, the one who was in a lose-lose situation no matter what he did.
And I'm still wondering if he really did love his daughter at all...I just wish that I wasn't so scared of what answers I might get in regards to that doubt.
On a side-note...has anyone ever heard of the song 'Alice Hitobashira' otherwise known as 'Alice Human Sacrifice' ?
I always said that Shou and Nina's situation suited the Third Alice stanza of the song depending on the translation.
But now that just intensified ten fold.
Another thing, sorry for talking about everyone's much hated State Alchemist...again. ^^;;
mira mirth
Apr 27 2009, 12:12 PM
I wouldn't say I'm ready for charging into a full-blown debate, but...
QUOTE
well i think it just makes fma what it is. besides emo's being depressed is just a steryotype. emo is a style of music and fashion, not a describing word. besides it gives the series more tragedy which is what does make fma what it is.
My possibly misguided reference to emo culture aside, I don't think the series 1) needs *more* tragedy than the original source material has, 2) is defined by and revolves around said tragedy. It's been eloquently put here:
QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ Apr 27 2009, 08:37 PM)

I'm beginning to see a trend with the direction of Brotherhood in that the military/taboo/state alchemist elements of the story are being granted precedence over the emotional/relational aspects in the initial scope of the narrative focus.
I agree with that. They're not ignoring emotions ("WE ARE HUMANS!"), but they do not use them as the primary focus. It's plot-driven, not character-driven.
I would also say that the manga (and, by association, FMA2) is more about moving forward than mourning the past: the past is a heavy weight on the protagonists (all of them, up to and including Armstrong), but the centre point is moving on despite what had happened, overcoming yourself and, like
His Name is Unknown said, perseverance. Personal tragedy here is a stepping stone to something greater. In this episode, you can see it too: some of Ed's innocence had been ripped away, some illusions shattered, but these are hard and horrible truths he had to face; he'll be stronger for it, in the end. And this is why you can admire him, because, no matter how much pain is inflicted upon him, he won't give up. That's what makes him a hero.
lunneth
Apr 27 2009, 01:16 PM
QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Apr 27 2009, 11:07 AM)

^I thought Nina looked about 4 or 5...how old actually was she?
what i meant was that because ed was 15 in this episode that nina would have been born 3 years later.
Full Metal Elf
Apr 27 2009, 01:51 PM
So I had to go back and re-read the entire Nina/Tucker thing in the manga.
OMG...it was so spot on! This episode barely missed a beat!
It makes me REALLY excited for the next episode because the fight with Scar is so intense

.
While re-reading I noticed that at the beginning of the next chapter is the dream Ed has about his mother, and his guilt. I really hope they don't cut that, it's so powerful.
Kyelinn
Apr 27 2009, 02:39 PM
Gyaaaah!!! I forgot about that part in the manga, Full Metal Elf! I hope you're right and I REALLY REALLY hope they do not cut that! >.<
Full Metal Elf
Apr 27 2009, 08:14 PM
Me too! >_<
xcamilax
Apr 27 2009, 09:00 PM
oke-y so here is my shoot for this episode xD
very good episode overall.
animation to begin with...Well, personally didn`t saw any flaws in this aspect, everything looked fluent and the colors where bright and well done...to be spected.
Next,we got the music, nice BG melodys, really fitted with the moments.
Not spectacular of course, but very good.
And the heavy part...the plot, I was very pleassed that it did had the manga feeling this time, it wasn`t that much focused on the "melodrama" but in the character resolutions.
That is something i really loved, now,we see edward coming to a conclusion, a realization, "we are just humans..." (and indeed we are xD)also, it was also nice to see mustang`s intermission showind the "mature point of view".I dont recall this things having that much of enphasys in the first series as in this time... (honetly , the objetive there was to get you to cry like a baby than to show a high quality narration IMO xD)
while in the 1st anime, we only saw the emotional part and yadda yadda but there weren`t actually any character grow at all,The ed and al from the first episode was almost the same as the one in the last one.(and like many of you had say, they didnt moved forward at all -__-)
The only thing that really really really ANNOYED me was that they didnt put Al´s line "Shoun tukker, if you keep talking , this time ill shut you up". I hope they dont keep Alphonse with the "passive little brother actitude" like they are doing since the first series, or the important intromissions(youknow what i mean xD spoiler spoiler spoiler haha) he`ll have later will be a little...ilogical,they should start building his character from now.
But Overall, A firmly adaptation, lets see if they can keep it when the important parts begins...
amestris_star
Apr 27 2009, 10:09 PM
QUOTE (Kyelinn @ Apr 27 2009, 11:39 PM)

Gyaaaah!!! I forgot about that part in the manga, Full Metal Elf! I hope you're right and I REALLY REALLY hope they do not cut that! >.<
Same here. I'd LOVE to see that included at the beginning of the next episode. Would really set the dark tone for the rest of the chapter (considering that it's the overall feel of these coming chapters).
Yikie
Apr 28 2009, 09:50 AM
QUOTE (xcamilax @ Apr 27 2009, 10:00 PM)

Only thing that really really really ANNOYED me was that they didnt put Al´s line "Shoun tukker, if you keep talking , this time ill shut you up". I hope they dont keep Alphonse with the "passive little brother actitude" like they are doing since the first series, or the important intromissions(youknow what i mean xD spoiler spoiler spoiler haha) he`ll have later will be a little...ilogical,they should start building his character from now.
But Overall, A firmly adaptation, lets see if they can keep it when the important parts begins...
I totally agree!
That part was when I first thought (and still thinks) Alphonse is a really cool character when I first read the manga. In the first anime series I never had that impression though...
penguintruth
Apr 28 2009, 02:50 PM
(I never thought Alphonse was that docile in the first series, just not as active as in the manga... I might also add, most of that activity happened after the manga and anime split, though Alphonse put up more of a fight with Greed's group in the manga beforehand.)
Sorry for barging in just now, but I wanted to give my thoughts on the episode here as well.
As a fan of both the manga and first series, I was very impressed by this episode. Not only was it a near dead-on adaptation of chapter five of the manga, but the extra bits were such pleasing fan service (seeing Scar kill Basque, Maria Ross and Denny Bloch, Hughes and Armstrong getting some dialogue, ZE FUHRER, Ed using his automail to play with Nina, etc), it seemed like an improvement in some ways. So very gripping, especially the scene on the stairs.
I was worried about Scar's new voice, but so far it seems to be very suitable. It almost seems more booming and threatening than the previous one. He's one scary guy. I think they gave him a few more facial lines, too, so he looks a bit older as well, but it somehow suits him. His face just screams with barely contained rage.
I won't get into how I preferred the original version, but I'll say that it may be due to the tragedy being fresh when I saw it the first time (though I also liked Shou Tucker's fate worse than death in the anime, as hokey as a chimera-Tucker was). I think the more I watch this episode, it'll probably tie up with that episode. Like I mentioned, I'm a fan of both the manga and first program.
(Also, hello!)
Hagaren_4ever
Apr 28 2009, 06:15 PM
Are those funny screen caps for the episode out yet? Sorry, I don't know the site. <:O
Tombow
Apr 28 2009, 10:12 PM
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Apr 28 2009, 05:50 PM)

(Also, hello!)
Hello
penguintruth, welcome to our board!!

QUOTE (Hagaren_4ever @ Apr 28 2009, 09:15 PM)

Are those funny screen caps for the episode out yet? Sorry, I don't know the site. <:O
@
Hagaren_4ever - I think as soon as it's out
fullmoon will bring it to us. ^^
Waiting for Funimation's sub that's coming out tomorrow. ^^
Kale Mustang
Apr 28 2009, 10:19 PM
QUOTE (Hagaren_4ever @ Apr 28 2009, 06:15 PM)

Are those funny screen caps for the episode out yet? Sorry, I don't know the site. <:O
Not up yet, but here's the site:
http://inulovinkit.livejournal.com/
fullmoon
Apr 29 2009, 02:28 AM
amestris_star
Apr 29 2009, 03:03 AM
^ Yay! Thanks fullmoon

Will have a look at it when I get back from work for sure this evening >D
Kale Mustang
Apr 30 2009, 09:12 AM
Just grabbed the Funimation episode.
Transcript will be posted either later tonight (if I'm lucky) or on Friday - Pacific Standard Time. Will be posted in official thread.
Tombow
Apr 30 2009, 02:11 PM
@
fullmoon - Thank you for bringing the capsummaries for this episode!!
@
Kale Mustang - Thank you in advance for the transcripts for the episode 4!!
I just watched the episode on Funimation.com!!
I liked it, I liked it, I liked it!!
Others have already posted excellent analyses of the episode here, and I agree!!
I just want to stress how much I've been enjoying Romi Pak-san's VAing as Ed in this series, and that includes this episode also. I think her VAing in this episode was right on the money. ^^
Sal_san
May 1 2009, 08:58 AM
This episode was truly the best so far. The scene when Ed realized what happened to Nina... so perfect. I almost cried, and that rarely happens.
I'm so glad! Can't wait for next episode!
Hagaren_4ever
May 1 2009, 06:15 PM
I didn't really cry, but I thought it was sooo sad. Here, I'll compensate with a crying face. ;_;
And here's another. T_T
So, anyway, you wanna know how obsessed with Fullmetal Alchemist I am? Today in physics class my teacher had the formula Force=mass x acceleration on the board, or, F=ma. When I saw F=ma, all I thought was, "FMA!" I'm such a nerd. XD
Mistress of Misery
May 1 2009, 06:37 PM
@ Hagaren_4ever: GAHAHAHA. xDD I never thought of that equation that way, but now that you mention it... Proof that Newton supports FMA. xD
...this was kind of off-topic, wasn't it? ._. Well, I still need to watch the Funimation sub of this episode. Can't wait to finally see it in good quality...
penguintruth
May 1 2009, 06:53 PM
We already know that Newton supports Escaflowne, but FMA too, huh?
Sal_san
May 1 2009, 06:57 PM
@ Hagaren_4ever
You are not alone. ^.^ That pretty much helped with with my exams... FMA saved my grades! XD
Back on topic... I hope next episode will have the same awesome feel to it.
Hagaren_4ever
May 3 2009, 04:55 PM
QUOTE (Sal_san @ May 1 2009, 09:57 PM)

@ Hagaren_4ever
You are not alone. ^.^ That pretty much helped with with my exams... FMA saved my grades! XD
Back on topic... I hope next episode will have the same awesome feel to it.
1.) FMA also helped my grades back when I was asked what element is most commonly found in the sun, I thought, "IT'S JUST A MASS OF HYDROGEN!!" Haha.
2.) Noone's gonna want to talk about this subject now that the 5th episode is out anyhoo. May as well talk about off topic things. XD (Sorry, Tombow. I'm done.)
Tombow
May 3 2009, 05:10 PM
@
Hagaren_4ever - Haha, actually, some of my FMA friends are watching it today on Funimation.com, and some haven't watched it yet because they had exams. Also, officially, in Hong Kong, if you're relying only on TVb, then the airing is two weeks after the airing of the episode in Japan. (TVb is up to episode 2 now.) So, yeah, please don't clutter the thread with OTs.
=============
And, to make this post on-topic:
We're still looking for any available info for the scores used in this episode.
If anyone has any info, please post.
Also, can someone please double check and post which manga chapters the content of this episode is from, and post that info...please??
Thank you!!
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