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black~hayate
Well, I liked it. It wasn't too fast and I could follow it perfectly.

What I really HATED was the fact that that episode is TOO SHORT xD. Now I have to wait another week *sigh*
Kasumisty
Meh, I didn't like it. And I'm not telling it after watching episode once, but twice. It was very anti-climatic, rushed and too silly. I don't know the point of adding new material and then rushing with manga content, just to fit in one, 24-minute episode. They omitted some, not as important, but fun, or sad scenes, for example Ed vomiting when seeing their "mother" transmuted, Ed barking to Mustang and teasing him about his secret... Content lose its depth from manga. The dialogs were cheesy and VA haven't put any emotions to their roles (Mustang was yelling more energically and loudly in first episode, Trisha's happyness after calm disscussion with sons was also out of place, not mentioning Ed barely not screaming at the Doors.) Don't get me wrong, I was REALLY positively waiting for this episode and I was totally mixed with mud.

but sleeping Ed at the end of episode was very cute

ETA1: And the background with Elrics' house WAS HORRIBLE

ETA2: Maybe I will write down things I did like:

-well, a bit the beginning, but it also was very fast
-the mentioning of Xerxes
-Ed on a wheelchair at the beginning somehow
-kinda taking the Al's and Ed's bodies, a little bit scary
-Mr. Truth voice *shivering*
-Ed crawling to the suit of armor *shivering once again*
-Roy reading the raport was looking nice xd
-"Gomenasais" by Al
-the writings on the sheet of paper that Ed got at the end were legible and sensible
-sleeping Ed~
-
Sal_san
I feel... dissatisfied.

I expected more from the second episode... everything felt too rushed, too unnatural. It's like they jumped from one scene into another without making a good transition... and the "Doors of Truth" part didn't feel creepy at all (I blame the background music for that one... it didn't seem to fit that scene for some reason). I had a hard time feeling the same sympathy and emotions I felt while watching the first anime/reading the manga.

I know they had a good reason for rushing the scenes like that, but couldn't BONES at least portray it in a way that it feels more natural? For example, the scene with Trisha's grave. They could have shown some shots with Trisha, Ed and Al, together, then a short five-second flash of Trisha's death, then a few flashes of her burial. At least something to smooth the transition between one scene and another...

And anyway, I wouldn't mind them doing the episodes the same way as the manga. They could have done some parts a bit differently, so it wouldn't be a bore to watch... but the essence would still be there. ^.^

I'm not making any sense, am I? -.-' Ah, it's 1 AM here... g'night.
Kyelinn
QUOTE (Kasumisty @ Apr 12 2009, 12:31 PM) *
Meh, I didn't like it. And I'm not telling it after watching episode once, but twice. It was very anti-climatic, rushed and too silly. I don't know the point of adding new material and then rushing with manga content, just to fit in one, 24-minute episode. They omitted some, not as important, but fun, or sad scenes, for example Ed vomiting when seeing their "mother" transmuted, Ed barking to Mustang and teasing him about his secret... Content lose its depth from manga. The dialogs were cheesy and VA haven't put any emotions to their roles (Mustang was yelling more energically and loudly in first episode, Trisha's happyness after calm disscussion with sons was also out of place, not mentioning Ed barely not screaming at the Doors.) Don't get me wrong, I was REALLY positively waiting for this episode and I was totally mixed with mud.


Truth be told...I'm glad they didn't add Ed vomiting. I really don't particularly like watching anything (cartoons, real, whatever) throw up. I just can't get over how much you guys all complain about this, I think you're expecting too much too soon...=/ I liked it. I followed it just fine having read the manga previously. I didn't see anything wrong with it. Sure it was a little rushed. I thought the human transmutation scene was well done, and I thought it was rather emotional. I almost cried. I think people are forgetting that this is a whole new anime now loosely based off the manga, so it seems so far. This is only the 2nd episode. I'm sure we're going to see the whole thing more in depth later on in the series, like when the brothers go visit Izumi and tell her everything. This is only to just get the anime started so people understand the story.
black~hayate
QUOTE (Sal_san @ Apr 12 2009, 11:41 AM) *
I feel... dissatisfied.

I expected more from the second episode... everything felt too rushed, too unnatural. It's like they jumped from one scene into another without making a good transition... and the "Doors of Truth" part didn't feel creepy at all (I blame the background music for that one... it didn't seem to fit that scene for some reason). I had a hard time feeling the same sympathy and emotions I felt while watching the first anime/reading the manga.

I know they had a good reason for rushing the scenes like that, but couldn't BONES at least portray it in a way that it feels more natural? For example, the scene with Trisha's grave. They could have shown some shots with Trisha, Ed and Al, together, then a short five-second flash of Trisha's death, then a few flashes of her burial. At least something to smooth the transition between one scene and another...

And anyway, I wouldn't mind them doing the episodes the same way as the manga. They could have done some parts a bit differently, so it wouldn't be a bore to watch... but the essence would still be there. ^.^

I'm not making any sense, am I? -.-' Ah, it's 1 AM here... g'night.



Ah I know what you mean.
The scene with Trishas grave and the "should be" flashbacks of her burial and so on.
It wasn't at the beginning of the manga, so it wasn't in this episode. It will come later in another flashback
Goral
@Kyelinn
I'm watching this show because I still have a hope that this anime will be better. I'm sure that when it reaches the point where first series deviated from the manga I would like to see that. For now I'm not dropping it so that I could talk about it and not be ridiculed in a way: "you haven't watched it so how can you be sure it sucks.". As you can see I'm arguing quite well since you haven't replied to my previous post :].

Edit:
Oh, and Alzea, I've replied to your post here.
Sal_san
QUOTE (black~hayate @ Apr 12 2009, 11:56 AM) *
Ah I know what you mean.
The scene with Trishas grave and the "should be" flashbacks of her burial and so on.
It wasn't at the beginning of the manga, so it wasn't in this episode. It will come later in another flashback


But if they're comfortable with making a completely new first episode, why not add a bit? I'm sure adding a few small details won't change to plot entirely... after all, it's a LOOSE adaptation, right?
Kyelinn
QUOTE (Goral @ Apr 12 2009, 12:58 PM) *
@Kyelinn
I'm watching this show because I still have a hope that this anime will be better. I'm sure that when it reaches the point where first series deviated from the manga I would like to see that. For now I'm not dropping it so that I could talk about it and not be ridiculed in a way: "you haven't watched it so how can you be sure it sucks.". As you can see I'm arguing quite well since you haven't replied to my previous post :].


*scratches head* I'm not aware I ever ridiculed you, nor am I even trying to argue with you, because I choose not to. I never even recall asking you WHY you watched the show...o_o Also, I didn't reply to your post because it would've led into a "1st Anime vs 2nd Anime" discussion and Tombow asked for it to be stopped. So, I'm respecting those wishes and I'm stopping.
Flamez_Freak
I guess this bashin is not hurtin anyone here goral . So you better stop . . Cause i think that all you are tryin to do is get some attention . . I might be wrong here , but it surely looks like it . . I've seen people tryin to compromise with you and stuff , but all you do is bash , bash and bash . . . If you hate the new anime . . Why do you even watch it . . Ha ha . . Seriously with this kind of attitude , you'll make more enemies than friends anywhere you go . .
Radadinator
The only thing that's chiefly wrong with the episodes right now is the incredibly fast pacing, and that will probably slow down as the series goes on. Sure, they could've fixed up this episode, but I'm fairly positive that they'll go more in depth with Ed and Al's bond with Trisha, the house burning, etc. once they meet Izumi. This is just an introductory episode to the transmutation, so they probably tried to keep it brief.

Maybe it would have been better if Ed and Al's visit at Pinako's place was used for more Trisha screentime, but overall, the episode really wasn't that bad.
Kyelinn
QUOTE (Radadinator @ Apr 12 2009, 01:11 PM) *
The only thing that's chiefly wrong with the episodes right now is the incredibly fast pacing, and that will probably slow down as the series goes on. Sure, they could've fixed up this episode, but I'm fairly positive that they'll go more in depth with Ed and Al's bond with Trisha, the house burning, etc. once they meet Izumi. This is just an introductory episode to the transmutation, so they probably tried to keep it brief.

Maybe it would have been better if Ed and Al's visit at Pinako's place was used for more Trisha screentime, but overall, the episode really wasn't that bad.


LOL That's pretty much what I was trying to stay. They're just trying to start the anime up so people who are watching for the first time and haven't read the manga, can at least have an understanding of what's going on here. In any case, I'm going to watch it a 2nd time. That transmutation scene was just...wow ;_; and Al, saying he's sorry over and over again and when Mustang grabbed Ed by the shirt. The look in his eyes...
Sal_san
QUOTE (fma_milan_freak @ Apr 12 2009, 12:05 PM) *
I guess this bashin is not hurtin anyone here goral . So you better stop . . Cause i think that all you are tryin to do is get some attention . . I might be wrong here , but it surely looks like it . . I've seen people tryin to compromise with you and stuff , but all you do is bash , bash and bash . . . If you hate the new anime . . Why do you even watch it . . Ha ha . . Seriously with this kind of attitude , you'll make more enemies than friends anywhere you go . .


Now, now. Let her have her own opinion... and she wouldn't have a reason to hate it without watching it, right? ^.^
mira mirth
I have mixed feelings about this episode. On the one hand, the transmutation scene was done really well. Someone before me had said that it was scarier than in season 1, and I agree. Then there's also the wonderful animation and Ed who is much cuter than in season 1 (I think), and general manga-moments, like younger!Riza meeting Winry. On the other, this felt a lot like "tell, not show." I don't even mean the first narrator talking about equivalent exchange - because it works there, but a sudden cut to a conversation between Roy and Hughes in the midst of Ed angst? That threw me. And the lines they exchanged were so incredibly contrived, too - while I understand the necessity for characters to occasionally exchange words that are aimed at educating the audience, this was just way too transparent.

Hughes: Roy, so why did you invite those kids to be alchemists? They'll see bad things, you know.
Roy: Yeah. Bad things. Oh well. *walks away*
Hughes: ... O-kay then. Don't bother explaining. I'll just wave to you in a friendly fashion anyway.

Things like that annoyed me =) At the same time, like I said, there were a lot of good points, too, so I'm generally optimistic about what is to come. And I believe it's waaay too early to judge this new season. They've got a huge challenge before them - going through the same storyline as the first season until a certain point and making it appealing both to the new and to the returning audience, so I'm going to cut them slack just for this, anyway.

PS I confess I don't remember the early manga storyline in detail, but - was Tucker an anime-only character? Huh. Maybe he just wasn't important in the manga...
Mistress of Misery
...mmmph. I'd have to agree with most of the critics here. The pacing and transitions were just...way too fast and choppy. I know that they want to get the "necessities" out of the way as soon as possible, but I think this episode is too important to skip over like that.

I really loved the transmutation scene though. Just the right amount of creepiness and emotion.

That cityscape shot of Lior at the end looked amazing; at least this series has beautiful art. ^o^ I still have a fairly positive outlook on this series...I really don't want to have to lower my expectations, so I'm hoping it'll get better as it goes on.
Alzea
QUOTE (WinterChanterelle @ Apr 12 2009, 08:15 PM) *
PS I confess I don't remember the early manga storyline in detail, but - was Tucker an anime-only character? Huh. Maybe he just wasn't important in the manga...

Tucker was in the manga and will be in the anime (as we saw scenes from this in trailers) but he isn't very important character here.

As to the second episode, again, it shoul be like this:
Summary of the episode: The Truth guy pwns you all! xD
Why? Because the event in the gate was the best in this episode and the Truth guy was made of awesomeness.
Flamez_Freak
Hey don't worry mistress . . . This is gonna get much better. . . I seriously think that they'll cover everything later using flashbacks . . As someone said earlier , these are just introductory episodes . . So please don't start degrading this new anime , i loved the new episode . . And i'd like to keep my comparison cards close to my chest right now , okay , i think we can do some more comparison in the next episode . . . Lior . . Lets wait for that . . And speakin about which , who thinks rose looks better in the new anime than in the previous one . . . Ha ha
Tombow
Thank god for my friend with better computer... I just saw the episode (raw) again, this time without intermittent delays, and with clearer sounds that enabled me to hear the actual dialogue.

And, I enjoyed it. I see that they might have omitted some scenes from manga storyline (we still don't know that for sure, because we had seen only two episodes and they may still have some flash backs in the future episodes,) but IMO as a whole so far the storyline flows ok, and I think the flow of things within this episode worked ok as an episode. IMO, some part of dialogue and editing maybe leaning toward "cheesy" side, but overall I still enjoyed watching this episode very much. More detailed opinions after I watch it a few more times. biggrin.gif


QUOTE (WinterChanterelle @ Apr 12 2009, 02:15 PM) *
Hughes: Roy, so why did you invite those kids to be alchemists? They'll see bad things, you know.
Roy: Yeah. Bad things. Oh well. *walks away*
Hughes: ... O-kay then. Don't bother explaining. I'll just wave to you in a friendly fashion anyway.

@WinterChanterelle - I think you skipped the part that right after that Mustang mutters to himself: "Hellish things? Yes, they had already seen it." (Or something like that. ^^) I think that was sort of the "punch line" for that whole dialogue exchange. biggrin.gif
mira mirth
QUOTE (Alzea @ Apr 12 2009, 06:29 PM) *
Tucker was in the manga and will be in the anime (as we saw scenes from this in trailers) but he isn't very important character here.


Aha! Thank you. There goes my hope that we wouldn't see him again... but at least he won't be underfoot so much of the time.

@Tombow mea culpa =) However, this punch line did not punch me at all - and what's worse, Roy said it after the conversation with Hughes, which completely cemented the image that they were talking for the benefit of the audience. Which they were, of course, but it didn't have to be so blatant =)
black~hayate
QUOTE (Alzea @ Apr 12 2009, 12:29 PM) *
QUOTE (WinterChanterelle @ Apr 12 2009, 08:15 PM) *
PS I confess I don't remember the early manga storyline in detail, but - was Tucker an anime-only character? Huh. Maybe he just wasn't important in the manga...

Tucker was in the manga and will be in the anime (as we saw scenes from this in trailers) but he isn't very important character here.

As to the second episode, again, it shoul be like this:
Summary of the episode: The Truth guy pwns you all! xD
Why? Because the event in the gate was the best in this episode and the Truth guy was made of awesomeness.


yaaay Alzea is back xD
I loved Truth, too. I missed it/him/her/whatever it is in the first anime.
His Name is Unknown
I'm not really buying the whole "it's rushed because it's already been done before" argument. The fact that some of this material has been treated before is not an excuse for lazy storytelling, a problem from which this episode suffers greatly, nor does it necessitate the amount of self-reference that the first two episodes have displayed.

What I mean is, if one has already seen the first anime and/or read the manga, one could project those emotions onto this new series, and because of that find a great deal of meaning in the images being shown - they are, after all, vivid and well drawn. However, viewing FMA2 from the perspective of a complete newcomer, the show is rushed, underdeveloped and honestly not all that interesting at this point. If something is going to be done, it should be done right, and that means taking time to tell the story properly, regardless of ratings.

To put it another way, would you rather be mildly entertained and smile with nostalgia at an episode's premier, or still be finding new meaning to the images and direction years later (as is the case with season one)? Sure, I get a kick out of seeing things in a new light, but the amount to which this new animation is relying on the first series is not acceptable. It's being made for ratings, not artistic merit - that much is clear. As different as the first anime is from the original story, it had a specific agenda and very defined themes which it hammered home repeatedly to tell a great story and make a lasting impact on the world of anime. So far, FMA2 is all image and no substance. That is the one thing I will not be able to forgive should it continue much longer as FMA is about the most substantial anime story I know, and to see it reduced to 'just another show' is heartbreaking.

I enjoyed the new episode, but as a novelty rather than as a work of art or literature; and that, my friends, is deeply unfortunate.

P.S.

Don't hate on Goral; he's got some valid points and I completely understand where he's coming from. In honor of the new series' debut, I started rewatching FMA1 from the beginning, and thus far, there isn't even a comparison between the two. FMA1 destroys FMA2 as an adaption at this point.
Tombow
QUOTE (WinterChanterelle @ Apr 12 2009, 02:40 PM) *
@Tombow mea culpa =) However, this punch line did not punch me at all - and what's worse, Roy said it after the conversation with Hughes, which completely cemented the image that they were talking for the benefit of the audience. Which they were, of course, but it didn't have to be so blatant =)

@WinterChanterelle - Gahaha, I see what you mean. biggrin.gif

-------

BTW, speaking of cheesy... this was the first time I could hear the sound in better quality audio computer, and the narration at the beginning of the episode sounds so old fashioned, like watching some Japanese WWI war news film. tongue.gif
Flamez_Freak
I'll still say that i'm not going to compare anythin to the previous anime . . . Until i watch the next episode , because there we'll know which anime is adapted better . . . Because the next episode features the same thing which had featured in the previous anime . . So lets compare after watchin the next episode . . And i still hold on to my point that the reason why this is rushed is because its been shown already . . . And to be honest , this is what i expected and this is what i got . . I know that they'll stop the rush once we come closer to hughes's death . . . And i know everyone does agree with me on that . .
Cece
QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ Apr 12 2009, 10:41 AM) *
Don't hate on Goral; he's got some valid points and I completely understand where he's coming from. In honor of the new series' debut, I started rewatching FMA1 from the beginning, and thus far, there isn't even a comparison between the two. FMA1 destroys FMA2 as an adaption at this point.



I don't think it's fair to compare an entire series to two episodes. FMA1 has 51 episodes and is angst ridden. Not that FMA2 doesn't have angst I just prefer lighter stories. Episode 2 was a bit rushed but I wouldn't say FMA1 stomps FMA2 at this point.
Automne
But it's normal to compare the first two episodes of this series, to those of the first one though...No? 'scuse me but I don't see the problem in it, if you express your opinion correctly without going all butt-hurt over those who may have liked it, while you didn't (or vice versa). Otherwise, shut it. Now that will be entirely retarded if people still continue to compare them after Hughes' death, since these two then take a completely different path plot-wise.

'Kay. This episode: Didn't like it, at all. The music was average at best, the 'emotional' moments were wasted because of god-knows-what, whether it be an inapropriate 'humourous' trick or, something was just plain missing to make it believable. There was also this very rushed feeling. Two much stuff in 25 minutes. How is a newcomer supposed to absorb that much information and get drawn in even more in this anime?

Also, glad to see Ed is just as annoying, if not even more so, than he is in the manga; that, they didn't screw up. His supposed 'cool' stance made me want him to get a good spank. And wtf, he doesn't know who is Bradley...?

Al? Just plain 'I-didn't-care-about-him-one-second' reaction from me.

Don't get me wrong, this episode didn't annoy me that much. Nope. It was just simply boring.

Good point? The animation, which is even better than in the first episode.

Just my two cents. Overall, quite a disappointment since I liked it so much so far, but there's nothing showing the other episodes will be that way. The next one might just be stellar, for all we know.
Goral
lol @fma_milan_freak
You've just written HUGE spoiler for anyone that haven't seen first anime or haven't read the manga (*cough* Hughes' death *cough*).
Kyelinn
I still hold onto my point that the reason this has been rushed is because they don't show the whole thing at the beginning of the manga. They show the full story with the brothers learning alchemy, Trisha dying, her funeral, to going off to be taught by Izumi, coming back home, performing the human transmutation, Ed's automail surgery, etc, etc, etc....during chapters 22-24 if I'm not mistaken because that's when the brothers go and see Izumi. I still think that's when they'll show the whole entire thing.
Meu
Ah, damn, I really liked the previous episode more. .__.' I know they have to make the things go fast, but... this was way too rushed. I hope they will show more detail later on.
However, the human transmutation and the Gate-scenes were awesome. I was really waiting to see Truth and hear his/her/its voice. Great. ^^
And I think Paku Romi did a very good job in these scenes; Ed's crying was heartbreaking. The whole thing was really creepy and I loved it.

The Lior episode and the rest of the beginning of the series will also possibly be very speedy, but oh well, the later parts are the parts that I'm actually waiting for. :]

// Am I the only one that thinks Hughes' nose is disturbing...?
His Name is Unknown
QUOTE (Kyelinn @ Apr 12 2009, 03:06 PM) *
I still hold onto my point that the reason this has been rushed is because they don't show the whole thing at the beginning of the manga. They show the full story with the brothers learning alchemy, Trisha dying, her funeral, to going off to be taught by Izumi, coming back home, performing the human transmutation, Ed's automail surgery, etc, etc, etc....during chapters 22-24 if I'm not mistaken because that's when the brothers go and see Izumi. I still think that's when they'll show the whole entire thing.


I agree with you - however, as an adaptation, I don't think this was a good decision. Books and movies are two completely different animals. What works on the page doesn't usually translate to the screen - as is the case here. That's why in my previous post I stressed the superiority of FMA1 over FMA2 as an adaptation - the direction was just more mature. Sure it was more angsty, sure it had filler episodes, but when it came to a cinematic representation of the manga material, it was spot on. The inherent drama of the manga was brought to vivid life onscreen. This is the difference between telling a story and showing a picture.

FMA1 told a story.

FMA2 is giving us pretty pictures set to music. There isn't enough of a compelling narrative to keep viewers engaged. In a story of this nature, there either must be an intriguing mystery or a strong emotional attachment demanding the audience's intellectual participation, and Brotherhood has established neither in its opening episodes. Alchemy has received little more than lip service (recombining matter, there's a taboo, the truth, etc.) at this point, so it isn't the driving force, and the brothers haven't had enough screen time for the audience to be sympathetic to their plight. I mean, FMA1 took close to nine episodes to elaborate Ed's status as Fullmetal, the meaning and workings of alchemy, the mystery and importance of the philosopher's stone, and the brothers relationship. Here, we have all that condensed into two episodes.

When you try to do everything at once, you end up doing nothing at all.

Additionally, why in the world is Ed narrating this episode. There was absolutely no set-up for such a thing. At least in FMA1, it was established that Alphonse was explaining to Rose about their past - not only that, but this fact drove home the theme established in the opening episodes that she must not follow down a similar path. That was great storytelling. This is just ... like a class in cinematic cliches or something.

When making a movie, it should be show, not tell.
Havanese
That was... a weird episode. The pacing was too fast, as others have said, and it didn't feel natural like it did in the manga. It just didn't flow right at all. The only good parts I can think of about this episode (aside from the technical aspects) is the Winry and Riza scene, and the transmutation scene, which was more graphic and creepy than in the previous series. It still didn't feel right, but it wasn't bad.

I feel really sad, since I want to absolutely love this anime, but so far I don't even like it. The animation, music, voice acting, and character designs are all good, but so far the script is really lacking. I'm very disappointed in this episode. If the series doesn't shape up, then I'm going to have to just hope that another studio will decide to remake it in another few years.
His Name is Unknown
QUOTE (Havanese @ Apr 12 2009, 03:19 PM) *
That was... a weird episode. The pacing was too fast, as others have said, and it didn't feel natural like it did in the manga. It just didn't flow right at all. The only good parts I can think of about this episode (aside from the technical aspects) is the Winry and Riza scene, and the transmutation scene, which was more graphic and creepy than in the previous series. It still didn't feel right, but it wasn't bad.


Well, when you have to start relying on crutches like voice-overs and narrators, you know it's a sign that the script has some serious problems. I understand your disappointment, Havanese, and I think that perhaps an analogy would help to explain that general feeling of 'just not right' that you're experiencing:

FMA1 is to FMA2 as Raiders of the Lost Ark is to Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

FMA1 and Raiders had vision, and every second of screen time was dedicated to realizing that vision. FMA2 (so far) and KOTCS are like collages of good ideas without the cinematic glue to bind them together. Watch any of the scenes alone and you get the feeling that they could be a part of something great; mesh them together, and you get a rushed, unemotional train wreck of a story. The director/screenwriters are obviously unsure of how to handle this material; even the opening animation illustrates this with its desire to show everything all at once. I mean, Young Hohenheim already?! The transmutation array for the Philosopher's Stone revealed in the opening shot?! Where is the tension - where is the intrigue? Where is the...the story?

I think this is the problem you are having with the direction of the new show.
mira mirth
QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ Apr 12 2009, 07:15 PM) *
FMA1 took close to nine episodes to elaborate Ed's status as Fullmetal, the meaning and workings of alchemy, the mystery and importance of the philosopher's stone, and the brothers relationship. Here, we have all that condensed into two episodes.


I think the virtues of both approaches are really subjective. A friend of mine nearly gave up on FMA-1 because she felt it was unfolding so slowly and getting nowhere at all. I had to literally hold her down until episode... I don't know, 18 or something. FMA-2 does not suffer from that; someone might like it better. And I don't think any of us who have seen FMA-1 or read the manga can really appreciate how a newcomer to FMA would feel about the story after watching the first two episodes.

... And I know that was off-topic. On topic: chibi!Al is so cute in this episode. Cuter than chibi!Ed. Remorseful!Ed, on the other hand, is the most pitiful thing I've ever seen. Those depressed eyes looking at Mustang... I think this episode had shown very well the impact the transmutation had on the brothers.
Radadinator
Well, after watching the subbed version a few times, my thoughts of it didn't get any higher. If anything, it went lower. But I'm still holding on to the hope that the director will go over this in more depth later on. Still, it wouldn't have hurt to put SOME depth in this episode.

The Hughes and Roy scene was pretty curious, but I don't have an issue with Ed being the narrator. Why wouldn't he be the narrator? There are some things in FMA that don't need to be over-analyzed and beaten to the ground.

So far, only the visuals are really amazing. The music was great, but most of it didn't work with the particular scenes they were played with. Script and pacing are the worst right now. But this is still FMA, so hopefully it'll stop playing out as a typical Burton film and improve.

I have a feeling this will end up being the opposite of the first anime. The first one had an awesome beginning and a not-so-awesome ending, and the second one's having a bad beginning and maybe an amazing ending once it slows down and starts contemplating things more.

(Still, the episode isn't horrible. It's just average, which is below average for FMA.)
His Name is Unknown
QUOTE (WinterChanterelle @ Apr 12 2009, 03:36 PM) *
QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ Apr 12 2009, 07:15 PM) *
FMA1 took close to nine episodes to elaborate Ed's status as Fullmetal, the meaning and workings of alchemy, the mystery and importance of the philosopher's stone, and the brothers relationship. Here, we have all that condensed into two episodes.


I think the virtues of both approaches are really subjective. A friend of mine nearly gave up on FMA-1 because she felt it was unfolding so slowly and getting nowhere at all. I had to literally hold her down until episode... I don't know, 18 or something. FMA-2 does not suffer from that; someone might like it better. And I don't think any of us who have seen FMA-1 or read the manga can really appreciate how a newcomer to FMA would feel about the story after watching the first two episodes.


True enough - although, I do have several opinions of FMA-newcomer friends that these episodes felt rushed and confusing to back up my comments. Not confusing in their content of presentation, necessarily, but more in that 'well that's great, but why should I care?' way. Now, if someone has ADD, and can't understand fundamental principles of good storytelling, does that really reflect on the merits of the show they are watching or is it a commentary on that individual's lack of appreciation for cinematic excellence (don't know your friend, so please don't take that as a dig, I'm just posing the question ^^).

On a positive, and slightly more on-topic note, I thoroughly enjoyed the dark waltz music playing during the transmutation scene; I really could watch that sequence over and over again. When taken in the context of my overall knowledge of the story, it really was an emotional moment. As others have commented, I think one of the greatest strengths of this episode was its illustration of the physical impact of the human transmutation on Ed and Al. I'm going to remain optimistic about this series, and hope for some great things from episode 3!

EDIT: @ Radadinator: It's not over-analysis; the fact that there is no real reason for Ed to be speaking other than a complete breach of the fourth wall is readily apparent. This could have been easily resolved by a few extra lines of dialogue between Ed and Al setting up that they were discussing their motivations/recounting their past failed attempts. I think the line: "Let's hope this time will be the right one," was an attempt at that, but unless it's just poor fan-subbing, that sentence is not enough to set-up the narrative story-telling device.
Radadinator
QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ Apr 12 2009, 12:49 PM) *
EDIT: @ Radadinator: It's not over-analysis; the fact that there is no real reason for Ed to be speaking other than a complete breach of the fourth wall is readily apparent. This could have been easily resolved by a few extra lines of dialogue between Ed and Al setting up that they were discussing their motivations/recounting their past failed attempts. I think the line: "Let's hope this time will be the right one," was an attempt at that, but unless it's just poor fan-subbing, that sentence is not enough to set-up the narrative story-telling device.


Ah, okay. I see where you're coming with that. Maybe I was only annoyed at people on other sites that are over-analyzing this to bits. It's not as if the old anime didn't have its fair share of bad episodes...but I guess it's because its flashback in Episode 3 was probably one of the best episodes in the entire series.

On the waltz thing, that was one of the couple instances where the music really matched with the scene. The music when Roy and Riza were leaving sounded too...sinister, I suppose, and the choral part during Ed and Al's spar didn't really fit. Something tells me that that's the new "Brothers" theme, though.

I'm clinging to the hope that they can't keep up such a fast pace for long, though.
MickiePT
All I can say is...eh. It was all right. Not the worst I've ever seen, but by FAR not the best.

I agree with everyone, the pacing was very off. On one hand, I liked that little intro in the beginning, but not if it means rushing Trisha's few moments of screentime. Or anyone else's for that matter.

I think the main part I don't like is the placement of this episode. I would have rather have waited until they reach the scene with Izumi like in the manga before hearing the backstory. It's not so much to be "just like the manga" but because I think then the flashbacks follow a more linear pattern instead of having to be referenced again when we see Izumi's training. Plus, I love how her training and the transmutation connected in the manga, and it's a shame we didn't get to see that at all.

I can see wanting to get the backstory over and done with, but this is IMPORTANT and it seemed like BONES didn't think so. They ruined several things from the manga that were my favorite scenes, like when Trisha was saying that if other alchemists learned that Ed and Al could do their work at their age it would make a 'mockery of their efforts' or when the Elrics were in class when fighting with their teacher. I liked those scenes much better than the fight between Ed and Pinako. Also, I'm pretty sure Trisha died later than when Ed was five. I'm not sure if Winry's parents died, but everything in the episode seemed a little off date wise.

One thing I did absolutely love was the Truth scene. BG might have been a little off, but it was pretty amazing. The Truth was spot on, and I loved his voice. I still think it should have been later in the anime though. They cut off a few moments in the transmutation (such as Truth taking Ed's arm) that would have been nice to have, but overall I liked that part. Liked the effect of not showing their eyes when they were adding the ingredients and blood. And love that Al doesn't act like an unwilling participant in this whole thing.

Mustang and Riza scenes seemed rushed, but they were ok. Second half was better than first. Really needed to show them burning down their house though. Al and Winry scene seemed a little pointless in my opinion.

I think that's it. Next episode looks promising. I might be the only one who actually like Rose's old look, but the new one seems more realistic. Lior looks beautiful.

One more thing: really hate those cut scenes and that announcer.
mira mirth
QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ Apr 12 2009, 07:49 PM) *
Now, if someone has ADD, and can't understand fundamental principles of good storytelling, does that really reflect on the merits of the show they are watching or is it a commentary on that individual's lack of appreciation for cinematic excellence (don't know your friend, so please don't take that as a dig, I'm just posing the question ^^).


It does sound like a dig at my friend, but I'm going to let it slide, because what bothers me more here is the premise that you can either like the drawn-out version, or be wrong. I don't think you need to have ADD not to like the beginning of FMA-1 - you might just not like it because you don't see the merits of, for one, flashbacks within flashbacks that last for several episodes and unnecessary fillers.

That was me fighting, with off-topical stubbornness, for freedom of thought.

Personally, I liked FMA-1 when I watched it. (Then I read the manga. Initially, I liked them both for themselves, but now I think I might like FMA-2 more simply for sticking to the manga, whichever way they choose to do it.) I think this discussion belongs in the Season 1 vs. Season 2 thread, though, or whatever it is called.
Forgiven
Okay, not as good. But it was good. Now I have a somewhat liking for Riza's short hair now. o_0...

Also, does anybody know where I can read those funny screencaps that somebody posted last week? Does the person have any for episode two yet?
AA battery
QUOTE (Tombow @ Apr 12 2009, 09:13 AM) *
^ @edxwinryfan - Yap. (Please see the following quoted post ^^)

QUOTE (Alzea @ Apr 12 2009, 08:41 AM) *
Subs by shinsen-subs are out, if someone wants link PM me (only torrents right now) *goes search for the DDL*
Oh, well I have to go for now, link is on the shinsen-subs' main page, just google it^^



Go for eclipse (which is out) and gSS (not out yet)'s instead. Their translations are more reliable.

I didn't watch the subs for ep 2 yet (didn't feel the urgent need to), but judging from episode 1 (which I did watch from both groups), eclipse's translation has a slightly better flow than gSS's but needs more work on the editing and they don't use official spellings (they pretty much used old A-Keep spellings), while gSS's has good grammatical editing (but tends to be too long and wordy) and uses official spellings but no karaoke on the romaji part (if you like to sing along then get eclipse's)...

Bottom line is, if you don't mind waiting, don't watch Shinsen's... *hides*
Havanese
@His Name is Unknown: Yes, I think you are right and my problems are primarily with the direction. I may be mistaken, but I remember hearing somewhere that the director did not have much experience, so maybe this is one of the reason the directing of this episode was so bad. Still, though, just because one person makes mistakes does not excuse how poor (I hate to use the word "poor," since it's FMA we're talking about, but I can't think of it as anything else) this episode was. BONES is an established studio that has made a lot of money off of FMA before; they should not be making amateur mistakes like this. I could excuse the last episode and look at is a stand-alone episode where the purpose was to introduce the characters, but now we're starting to get to the actual plot and it's just inexcusable.

BONES is using all these cheap tricks, like making crows caw and making the atmosphere all red, and expecting that to evoke emotion in us instead of giving us character and plot development. Even if the sun was shining and the sky was a lovely shade of blue, we should have felt emotional at seeing Ed and Al's bodies get torn apart because we had been given time to grow to love them. Like during Hughes' death in the first anime. But we were barely given any time, so I wasn't emotional when I saw that scene. Others may have felt differently, but that's how I felt.

It's just... gah. I feel so sad about this. Even if every episode after this one is great, some of the scenes in this episode were ones that I really wanted to be done well, and they weren't. Really, what is BONES thinking? I just hope the next episode is better.
Sannom
What's up with that flood control thing??? It's two times today, never happened before!

This episode has two problems :

--- first, some content is cut from it, from the manga
--- second, and more important, it's REALLY placed at the wrong spot! Arakawa made this flashback so late for a reason, and only now do I understand why. That woman builds everything slowly, flashbacks included. Everything has to be at the right place, and this episode is definitely at the wrong place huh.gif

If I were Mr Irie and I would be given a chance to redo the whole thing, I would follow Arakawa's pattern. I would keep Isaac, because he is way better than this stupid Bald guy. And then, I would go to Lior, even if only in one episode. And then, go quickly until you reach Rush Valey and the beginning of Volume 5. And HERE, you slow down the pace, because Rush Valey is the one place where you can say "It's REALLY different in the manga", even if it is such a "HS period" (that I love). 5 laboratory? First anime expanded it, but the beginning is the same. Tucker? Same thing : first anime expanded on it, but the beginning is the same.
Speedo
I think they rushed a little with introducing "the Truth", if I recall he appeared he later in the manga. It would have been better I think to let people (well atleast new fans tongue.gif ) wonder what the gate and all is about, now its like you know everything already.

I liked btw the red glow they gave to the house where ed and al performed the transmutation cool.gif niceee, more from that please!!
Sannom
Actually, the Truth appears at the same time as the Door in the manga cool.gif

I noticed something in that episode, beware for everyone that never read the manga!

Black air. If that is not some big foreshadowing thrown in for the manga fan, I don't know what it is. And what makes it better is that it's subtle. Something that only the manga fans can notice!
Asagi
Well....I didn't like this episode as much as I would like dry.gif ....I watched it with my sister who don't like FMA as much as me...and she said that she liked the episode... happy.gif
It was too fast,also Trisha's appearance was too short sad.gif .....but I liked the part of the human transmutation... .I only hope that next episode gets better
Speedo
QUOTE (Sannom @ Apr 13 2009, 01:16 AM) *
Actually, the Truth appears at the same time as the Door in the manga cool.gif


really? hmmmm... could be I havent read the manga for a long time laugh.gif but still, I think I'm right that they didn't introduced the Truth at the beginning of the manga, I'm guessing only around volume 11? Anyways IMO they rushed that a little bit to fast...
Sannom
Nah, the Truth appeared in Volume 6, along with the Door happy.gif But you're right, it is rushed.
sidekick.kep37
I agree with just about everyone who said they've rushed- especially the one post where it would've been better if the new fans were left to wonder about the Gate and all of that like the manga and original anime fans did. Hell, I even think they rushed Hoho a little too since he's already made an appearance in the theme song- him and his younger version from Xerxes- idk if that's a spoiler, but I'm being careful...

Yeah it went pretty fast, but I'm hoping that maybe they'll bring in more about the brothers' past gradually throughout the series.
Radadinator
QUOTE (Havanese @ Apr 12 2009, 03:15 PM) *
@His Name is Unknown: Yes, I think you are right and my problems are primarily with the direction. I may be mistaken, but I remember hearing somewhere that the director did not have much experience, so maybe this is one of the reason the directing of this episode was so bad.


The director did direct one other series, Kurau: Phantom Memory, which had nearly perfect direction and pacing. FMA 2 would be his first "big" series.
Still, Kurau was amazing. I'm guessing that he's messing up a bit on FMA because Kurau was an anime-only story, and because of the FMA fanbase's ridiculously high expectations. (I doubt anybody could direct perfectly under that kind of pressure.)

I'm sort of hoping that it'll only get better from here on.
I'm counting on Liore and the Nina story to have better pacing, although it's not looking good if they each have only one episode. One thing the first anime did good was to give Nina more time, right? At least the director brought in Hughes earlier.
Makika
I think this OP with hoho, homunculis, etc was made especially for the manga fans just to shows: Hey, we'll follow the manga's history, watch!
Or they put the characters in that way to cause that strange feeling like /Whoa! So cool! Who is this guy?/ in the new watchers.
Anyway, I love everything until now.

And the Winry/Riza conversation? *_* Wow, that was so cute! Riza saying: Because I have to protect one person. (Royai RLZ!)
I think this 2nd chapter better than the first, (that Isaac's history x_X). Oh, now i'm reading the manga again (all them) for think in that scenes animated. *-*
Oh, thanks god the anime is "one for week"
Mistress of Misery
QUOTE (MickiePT @ Apr 12 2009, 04:54 PM) *
I think the main part I don't like is the placement of this episode. I would have rather have waited until they reach the scene with Izumi like in the manga before hearing the backstory. It's not so much to be "just like the manga" but because I think then the flashbacks follow a more linear pattern instead of having to be referenced again when we see Izumi's training. Plus, I love how her training and the transmutation connected in the manga, and it's a shame we didn't get to see that at all.

I can see wanting to get the backstory over and done with, but this is IMPORTANT and it seemed like BONES didn't think so. They ruined several things from the manga that were my favorite scenes, like when Trisha was saying that if other alchemists learned that Ed and Al could do their work at their age it would make a 'mockery of their efforts' or when the Elrics were in class when fighting with their teacher. I liked those scenes much better than the fight between Ed and Pinako. Also, I'm pretty sure Trisha died later than when Ed was five. I'm not sure if Winry's parents died, but everything in the episode seemed a little off date wise.


EXACTLY what I was thinking. Putting the flashback in the second episode eliminated a lot of suspense and mystery that might have built up during the course of the series. The flashback contained some of the most poignant scenes I've seen in FMA, and smacking it right at the beginning of the series, as well as rushing through it in one episode, rather diluted it.

Obviously we'll get into the finer details of the brothers' past during the Izumi episodes, but it would have felt better to have all the flashbacks in one spot.

Here's to hoping the pacing will get better next time.

PS. I can't remember whether Winry's parents died before or after Trisha did. o.o *goes to check manga*
SneakyRuler
OK, still adjusting to the new character designs (especially Mustang - sometimes he doesn't look like himself from mango or FMA-1). Let's sort things out:

Great stuff:

- the human transmutation scene - I saw it in the first anime, read the manga and STILL it filled me with fright instea of going "cool, I remember that"... missing throwing up, though.
- Ed reading about Xerxes - not from manga, still good

Good stuff:

- didn't miss Trisha so much, there'll be plenty of her later, from Hohenheim's point of view, let's wait
- Mustang coming to Rizenbul, confronting Ed

Not so good stuff:

- the ate alchemy exam - too rushed, something missing, Ed's threat to Bradley didn't seem real and honestly, I didn't see a reason for Ed to become state alchemist. Good, he doesn't need transmutation circle but other than that? He made a spear! (Got it, he proved to be a sacrifice, as he's seen the truth, but that isn't obvious to each one.

Over all: beautifull music, if the episode were longer, it would be better biggrin.gif
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