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Xcommunicated
I think the way religious people are supposed to get around that conundrum is by rejoicing in all God's judgements and decisions. That way when a family member dies then you should celebrate because it is, rather ambiguously, God's will. In the same vein if by a person's actions on earth they are condemned to hell then in theory you should rejoice in the righteous condemnation of a sinner.

From what I've heard, heaven is just eternity in Gods presence and hell is eternity not in Gods presence.
Forgiven
Its not just in Gods presence, it's amazing to be in his presence. And I can't wait till that day until I die, or either the rapture happens and I go to Heaven. Hell is a horrible place. Not just because you are forever burning and being tormented, but because you totally separated from Gods presence Many people wonder what it would be like if God just wasn't there, well, theres hell for you. Total separation from Jesus. Horrible.

Surprised nobody's posted in here besides me and you.
Innocent-malice
^I believe in god and all but I'm not into the whole Christian thing and i was much more miserable trying to be Christian. Sure God may exist, but he isn't helping me any and therefore I get up and take care of myself instead of sitting there worrying that he hates me.

On topic: I believe in the afterlife. The world is not a black and white place, people do good things for bad reasons and vice versa, it is not as simple as good and bad people. I think life is preparing us for something more and that there is much more after this life. After all, why would we learn and experience so much for nothing. Also, if a child grows up becomes an adult and dies with no exposure to Christianity, are they going to hell because they arn't christian?
Forgiven
QUOTE (Innocent-malice @ Apr 10 2009, 09:01 PM) *
^I believe in god and all but I'm not into the whole Christian thing and i was much more miserable trying to be Christian. Sure God may exist, but he isn't helping me any and therefore I get up and take care of myself instead of sitting there worrying that he hates me.

On topic: I believe in the afterlife. The world is not a black and white place, people do good things for bad reasons and vice versa, it is not as simple as good and bad people. I think life is preparing us for something more and that there is much more after this life. After all, why would we learn and experience so much for nothing. Also, if a child grows up becomes an adult and dies with no exposure to Christianity, are they going to hell because they arn't christian?


Why were you miserable trying to be a Christian? Being a Christian is a wonderful thing. To know that you have salvation, a free ticket outta hell all thanks to Jesus. Which many people don't have. And no, God doesn't hate you. I don't know where you got that idea from, but if you take a look at Jeremiah 29:11, John 3:16, and other verses, you'll see that he loves you. Being a Christian is great. Its wonderful. I was at School today, and we are having this mission conference/revival thing going on, and everybody headed up to the Church and it was just awesome to sit there and sing songs with other believers. I doubt there was one miserable person in that room there today. And if there was, then something was wrong with them.

Anyways, in this world, what we do and say is how we are going to determine our afterlife really. You can either have it two ways in this world: You choose to live the life of Jesus, pick your up your cross and follow him and spend all eternity in Heaven with him, or choose to live a life of a sinner and spend all eternity in Hell. Now, I'm not saying just because you say the sinners prayer you all fine and dandy, no. You still have to go out and preach the gospel, go to Church, pray and worship God, and encourage other believers to. God knows who is faithfull and who is not. Also, the sinners prayer isn't really necessary. I mean, you can say it, but what you really have to do is believe in Jesus, and confess that he is Lord. Romans 10:13: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"KJV (there is somewhere in Acts that says something along those lines to, but I'll find it later. tongue.gif)

To your last question there, yes. Sadly yes. Thats why we have missionaries who go out in places like China, North Korea, Australia, South Korea, Laos, and many other places that do not allow Jesus, to preach the gospel. Mark 16:15: "15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."KJV I really do hope that I helped you there. If not I am sorry. I kinda running on three hours of sleep and I have to wait till my mom and dad get home and yeah. But I'm still open for discussion. ^^
Innocent-malice
^thats the thing, what about those places Christians haven't been, are they being forced to hell for a ignorance that is in no way their fault, does this seem like such a just God to you? If a preacher molests children and murders people in the name of god is he going to heaven? after all he believes in Jesus. The bible has to many contradictions for my taste anyhow.

Also, every time I go to church, never mind the fact I dont hook up/do drugs/ etc. Im going to hell for having short hair on a girl, a eyebrow piercing and wearing punk clothing. Even before that i used to be told im going to hell for being a woman that stands up for herself and for being eccentric. If god made and loves everyone why did he make me this way? because he damned us all when a woman committed the ultimate sin and gave into temptation, and because of one mistake made by a women we shall remain benieth men forever? I refuse to believe in something with such a tempermental god that stereotypes everyone so easily.

I have been locked in a room and told Im going to hell by my older brother for being strong and in a church as well for simply sitting with a few boys to goof off some. Ironically doesn't the bible say though shalt not judge? and doesnt this mean you shouldn't automatically judge that all people that dont believe in Jesus are going to hell, even if it is in the bible.

And i said I dont believe in heaven or hell because thats too simple to describe the entire complex worlds people and affairs so the being Christian because of salvation thing doesnt work on me.
xXdark_angel_nekoXx
well i think that when people die that they are put in to the ground for a forever sleep. there is no heaven and the is no hell envoled. so there is alot more that i can say about this but i am going to keep my mouth shut.
Innocent-malice
^aww but I want to hear your opinions, it is a debate forum after all smile.gif
Forgiven
QUOTE (Innocent-malice @ Apr 11 2009, 03:26 AM) *
^thats the thing, what about those places Christians haven't been, are they being forced to hell for a ignorance that is in no way their fault, does this seem like such a just God to you? If a preacher molests children and murders people in the name of god is he going to heaven? after all he believes in Jesus. The bible has to many contradictions for my taste anyhow.

Also, every time I go to church, never mind the fact I dont hook up/do drugs/ etc. Im going to hell for having short hair on a girl, a eyebrow piercing and wearing punk clothing. Even before that i used to be told im going to hell for being a woman that stands up for herself and for being eccentric. If god made and loves everyone why did he make me this way? because he damned us all when a woman committed the ultimate sin and gave into temptation, and because of one mistake made by a women we shall remain benieth men forever? I refuse to believe in something with such a tempermental god that stereotypes everyone so easily.

I have been locked in a room and told Im going to hell by my older brother for being strong and in a church as well for simply sitting with a few boys to goof off some. Ironically doesn't the bible say though shalt not judge? and doesnt this mean you shouldn't automatically judge that all people that dont believe in Jesus are going to hell, even if it is in the bible.

And i said I dont believe in heaven or hell because thats too simple to describe the entire complex worlds people and affairs so the being Christian because of salvation thing doesnt work on me.


I'm so sorry, but I'll have to get back to you on the whole Christians not being there to tell other people of Christ thing. But as for your other questions/comments, No. The Preacher will not be going to Heaven. Because if really believed in Jesus, then he wouldn't be doing such things. I doubt if somebody had the Holy Spirit in them they wouldn't be doing something like molesting children, or murder. The Bible doesn't have any contradictions. It's you not understanding it completely. If a person who just reads a verse in the Bible, and just goes on with it without not completely understanding it, their gonna get it confused and end up like you. The Bible is a parenthetical book (if thats the word I'm looking for) Which means you cant just read chapter after chapter like a normal book, you have to read other parts of the Bible as well to understand certain verses.

I don't know what Church you go to, (or used to) but I don't think theirs anything in the Bible about a woman having short hair and going to Hell for it. Same with body piercings and punk clothing. Your also not going to Hell because your a woman who stands up for herself or who is eccentric. I'm somewhat eccentric. XD God didn't make you the way you are. You made yourself the way you are. Same with gay people, a lot of them say God made them who they are, but I doubt God would make somebody gay. When God created Adam, Adam needed somebody, somebody to love and to talk to, so God created Eve. Eve was obviously and woman. God created Eve to stand by her husband, and to love him, and cherish him forever. Not to be put under Adam and treated like garbage. Adam still treated Eve with respect, honesty, and love. Question, are you a feminist?

You brother is an idiot You shouldn't have been locked in a room just because you are a woman and you went to Church. And I am sorry for that. I agree, woman are treated like gum under a shoe in this generation, but that doesn't mean you should blame God and hate men. Men only treat woman the way they do (disrespectfully) because they live a Godless life. Well, I think you just need to do a study on Hell to really see why being a Christian is so important.

You, like many people, have taken that memory verse out of context.

Here is the real verse(s):

36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.

38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. Luke:6:36-38KJV
Innocent-malice
^verse on adam and eve directly states that the woman shall serve the man and Adam was not blamed for eating the apple, only eve. And Gay people CANNOT help being Gay...they are attracted to the same sex...doesn't god want us to love one another? then why do gays have to hide their sexuality. Every gay person i know has not become that way because they wanted to, some even tried being straight, it does not work. I am attracted to men..so whats so wrong with another man being attracted to a man? we have natural instincts in that area we cannot help, I believe it is proven too, scientifically that is. like i could try being attracted to a women, but it would never happen.and what about transsexual use to be gay people? biggrin.gif They arnt gay anymore..or what about the ones that are now, originally they where the opposite sex so...

and contadiction:

The bible says "thou shalt not judge" but tells you to assume, or judge that every other religion is wrong and yours is right, like every other religion tells. The thing about the bible is you can interpret it any way you want, there wouldnt be so many different beliefs if god had been so thorough to point out yours is totally right. also, heres a wonderful website pointing out why i say the bible contadicts itself instead of having to type a few up myself: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...radictions.html

What about people who forgive, do not judge or codemn, they are not going to hell if their christian, but what if they are jewish...jesus was jewish as well...that where christianity stemmed from.

and I believe in equality between men and women, but I don't bite men's heads off or find it degrading when they do something nice for me. and the gender gap has been this way for centuries upon centuries, its actually slowly getting better. I have studied hell to a degree, I don't believe in it, end of story.
Hagaren_4ever
Right now, I'd say I'm pretty much agnostic. I'm going to admit to myself that I'm never really going to know all the secrets of the universe. So, I'm just going to live my life as well as I can, being good to others, and trying to bring joy to people in my life. And if I do something to upset the "God" that may be out there, than I'm willing to except the punishment he gives me. That is, unless I someday convert... 0_o
Forsaken Love
Lol my belives on the afterlife you could say are very complicated, as I've probably mentioned in other places, I belive in stuff from lots of religions with my own theories thrown into the mix and love to use science to back up my beliefs, so i won't go essay and try to keep my theories simple and to the point XD

hell: There are different levels of hell depending on how bad people are, but no one will ever be abandoned, truly evil people must be 'broken down' and de-evolved and rebuilt from the begining to become better people, but God will never abandon these people, once they have learnt, they will go to paradise and the gates of hell will close for eternety

limbo: 7 stages between heaven and hell. For people who are generally good but have made mistakes. Not perfect enough for heaven but not evil enough for hell, again they will reach paradise eventually

paradise: This is the one im least sure off, but im sure there is much more to paradise then the classic happy for ever and ever with God etc, again i think this is still a journey

and the place beyonddd- in some sufie (can't spell sorry) I was reading how some people will eventually go beyond paradise, to find the truth of everything and will become creators in their own right, open to interpretation i guess.

I belive in ghosts, I think these are people who are too tied to earth for their own reasons and can't let go
lunneth
i'm not particularly a simple catholic. i believe science plays a huge part in the universe we live in and that heaven and hell exist but i think there is alot more to it. i hear alot of people saying stuff like "if god exists then prove it" okay i'll try my best with this response. ahem. "if god didn't exist, then how do you think any religion got so far, or even how did the bible not get tossed aside". anyways now onto afterlife. i believe that the people who go to hell are very rare and that god is not cruel enough to have a purgatory (a place where you debate your place in heaven if your inbetween) i do also belive in resurrection or a life in an alternate place. i sorta belive in karma too so i guess i'm mostly catholic and stilghtly philosophical.
angelstar2408
Forgive me but I have to be honest in saying that I don't believe in afterlife..

I'm a baptized Catholic on paper but a proud Atheist in reality. I mean It wasn't my fault for being baptized when I was an infant.... It's just so unfair.... sad.gif
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