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GREEDisGOOD
Over the past few years, the extreme right have lost their power in this debate, but they're still out there. Some people believe Harry Potter is really a horrible series that is introducing our kids to devil worship and sorcery. But honestly, what I'd like to know is how many of these people have even read the books. I've got a perfect example. Ever since the books have come out, my pastor's been preaching on and on about how these books will "take us down a road we don't want to go". One day, after another one of his rants, I just got pissed and walked up to him. "Excuse me, but about your sermon today. I've got a question." "Yes?" "Have you even read Harry Potter?" ".......................Well.............no."
I have read all of these books several times, and I have yet to find a single source of evidence supporting this devil worship crap. I mean really, the entire theme of these books - love is the strongest bond, self-sacrifice, friendship - yeah, those are some real devil worshipping ideas right there.
And there are some concrete allegories (I'm not sure if this is the right term) that relate Harry Potter to the Bible, like what happens to Harry in the last book: Harry (Jesus?) gives his life freely, dies, then comes back to life and defeats Voldemort (Satan?)
Honestly, I would like to hear from some of those who believe these books are evil. I've wanted to get into this argument for years now.
Sokka12fan
Ugh, that pastor shouldn't be talking about it if he didn't read the book >.<
i think it's evil. evil that it's such a good book XD
Fushi
Lulz.

I am reminded of Gabriel.



Pft, this stuff was going on long before Harry Potter. Dungeons and Dragons for example got this sort of fire. Pokemon, Sailor Moon and other anime got this. Irt's just an irrational fear of something they don't quite understand or doesn't relate to their beliefs. All you can do is point and laugh.
Hanae Mai
Harry Potter=devil?
......

WAHAHAAAAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Just like saying that Ed is the tallest char in FMA and Roy cries every four minutes

It's a book for children! Lovely and nice. Pple who say it's evil are pious, devout, and completely madheads. Especially those who haven't read it.
You don't need to argue GREED-chan. Harry Potter is not devil. Don't resent those stupid pple, and don't get pissed off. smile.gif Say, you can't argue with crazy fools, right?
Chiyo
Religious freaks cannot explain why there is so much evil in the world if God is meant to be looking after us. So lay the blame on childrens books destroying the minds of the young and you have your reason. Luckily not all religious folks are this nutty, I'm not suggesting that....but blaming a book like this for corruption in society is an easy way out.


Rock music and Columbine syndrome, find a scape goat and all will be well (I'm going to have to add a "like not" in here so some of you don't take that seriously as my opinion)
TheRainbowConnection
I like to call those people Mr. Seriousface Grumpypants. Why not as well jump on Hamlet or Macbeth?
GREEDisGOOD
QUOTE(TheRainbowConnection @ Oct 16 2007, 08:41 PM) *
I like to call those people Mr. Seriousface Grumpypants. Why not as well jump on Hamlet or Macbeth?


That's a good point. Shakespeare is considered one of the greatest playwrights to ever live, and yet I seem to remember that the opening act of Macbeth involves three witches, not to mention that Hamlet has a ghost in it. Yet I don't here any fanatical right-wing religious freaks yelling about them!
Popogeejo
QUOTE(TheRainbowConnection @ Oct 17 2007, 04:41 AM) *
I like to call those people Mr. Seriousface Grumpypants. Why not as well jump on Hamlet or Macbeth?

Hamlet and Macbeth die though, thus getting what they deserve for mixing with the evilness.
TheRainbowConnection
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Oct 17 2007, 12:25 AM) *
QUOTE(TheRainbowConnection @ Oct 17 2007, 04:41 AM) *
I like to call those people Mr. Seriousface Grumpypants. Why not as well jump on Hamlet or Macbeth?

Hamlet and Macbeth die though, thus getting what they deserve for mixing with the evilness.

Point taken.

Rebuttal: A Midsummer Night's Dream and The Tempest

Anyways. Do these people also act against Tolkien? Better yet...what about C.S. Lewis? He crafted worlds imaginary and downright magical, populated with fantastic creatures and bestrewn with dragons, witches, and magic-imbued artifacts. And yet, the entire series is a frickin' Christian allegory. OMG SPOILER: ASLAN IS JESUS. HE'S ALSO A TALKING LION. The Bible did not say that God made talking lions. Obviously, this is the work of evil magicks. Either that or God is speaking through a lion in a fairy-tale world with centaurs and witches and auto-healing trinkets. So do you condemn it or what?

For that matter, Harry is Jesus. And for what counts, he's a pretty swell guy with honest, down-to-earth values. If anyone wants to boycott the HP books, it's their prerogative to try, but it is awfully short-sighted and narrow-minded of them. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, if you will.
Fushi
^They do act out against Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, I'm sure. You just don't hear about it as often because their books have been around longer, where as Potter is still relatively recent and a huge part of pop culture right now.

Preachers mostly preach about what's big in the media and most talked about right now, because it attracts more people to their sermons. Harry Potter, evolution, the Da Vinci Code, etc, etc.
coyote_sprit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicle...arnia#Criticism

Narnia gets its fair share of criticism as well but as Fushigi Rockna said going after something controversial and more recent will get more people aware of you. A common example is Jack Thompson.

And LotR also gets some criticism but not much. I think that these pastures and priests need to learn what fiction is and stop trying to fuel their own agenda.
GREEDisGOOD
Religious nuts don't freak out on C.S. Lewis because his story is a direct allegory of Christ's ressurection, and they don't freak out on Tolkien because his books, too, have Christian overtones. Though I'd have to agree that they only agree because these books have been around long enough.

But the real reason they're so fired up is while Tolkien's books are mostly adult, and Lewis's children's books have really, really strong Christian themes, Harry Potter was first a children's book. And as soon as those nuts saw that their kids were reading about sorcercy BAM!! They didn't even bother to find out anything else about the books.

I grew up on these books, and in my opinion these are about the best books any kid could grow up reading.
Fushi
LOL, expect to hear "Dumbledore is the gay, more proof that Harry Potter is the devil!" in your sermons for a while! XDDDD
Colette
Harry Potter is one of the most awful overrated piece of literature out there, but not the devil.
Little Washu
Harry Potter is okay, and I can see where they'd get the ideas of those from some of the commercials (i.e., the 3rd movies dementors) but in general, it's probably more for a middle school level. But that's still qualified as children's I think. My Nana(BIG Religious) says that Harry Potter and Anime are like that because they make people 'not believe in God'. Like, Naruto is 'bad' because most of the Japanese don't believe in God, therefore making the anime's goal into making other's feel that way. Well, that's what my Nana thinks.
Naivete
The fact that people take fiction seriously as a form of conversion make me want to inwardly cry. I can understand children believing such things for a bit, but honestly, children may be willing to believe anything but they take their parents more seriously than a few pages with text.

Common sense lesson for those who have grown out of the childhood days of believing in dreams:
Fiction = not reality. ohmy.gif

Sorry if I have gone slightly off topic. >.<"
Chiyo
In terms of Dumbledore is gay, it will add to Harry Potter being devil worhip for some....and everyone else won't care.
Popogeejo
QUOTE
In terms of Dumbledore is gay, it will add to Harry Potter being devil worhip for some...

How will Dumbledore add to Devil worshipping accusations?
Homosexuality may be a sin but it's got nout to do with Devil worship where as unnatural magic does.


BTW, why is this in debate district? Shouldn't a debate have two side rather than everyone sitting about and agreeing?
GREEDisGOOD
Yeah, well, I hoped that perhaps there might have been someone out there that disagreed with this book. Maybe they just haven't seen it yet.

Anyway, I've read dozens on these attacks on the books, and favorite stupid rant to read is their almighty trump: The books have witchcraft in them. My defense: So what? The books' focus aren't on the witchcraft and all that. That's just the setting. They could have been written in a real wrold setting, and Harry would have gone to a school to learn math and history, but damn, that would've been boring. If you've read the last book, you'll know that in the end, Harry doesn't even use magic to defeat Voldermort. First, he lets Voldemort kill him without defending himself, and when Voldemort finally dies, it was because of the Elder Wand. Harry didn't do anything magical.
Chiyo
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Oct 22 2007, 05:48 PM) *
QUOTE
In terms of Dumbledore is gay, it will add to Harry Potter being devil worhip for some...

How will Dumbledore add to Devil worshipping accusations?
Homosexuality may be a sin but it's got nout to do with Devil worship where as unnatural magic does.


Some see homosexuality as evil, and what I meant was that, Harry Potter causes people to be evil (worshiping the devil etc) and to be something as disturbed as homosexual (not my personal opinions)

And yes it is debatable this book is evil, we just have yet to find someone who thinks so.
Tris the Reaper
QUOTE(Summoner Colette @ Oct 21 2007, 07:09 PM) *
Harry Potter is one of the most awful overrated piece of literature out there, but not the devil.


Agreed times a million.

I hate Harry Potter and fail to see why the entire world is so freaking enamored with it. However, it's definately not the devil. There's been witches and witchcraft in other works of literature, and in movies as well [Wizard of Oz, anyone? Good witches and bad witches? Sure it may not be as deep as HP, but the idea is still the same], but no one seems to care.

The fact that it's religious people and churches that make these accusations gets me the most. I'll go into a forum and see people think Christianity - and all in it - is retarded and bring up the HP book burnings, etc as a result. While I do not and will never deny my faith, it angers and saddens me that people from my own faith/belief system are doing this. Honestly, if books can persuade people to do things, then we're all screwed. I'll use the same excuse for people who kill and/or enact things from video games and later blaming the games -- if they're stupid enough to mix reality with fiction and blame the game, then they had mental issues to begin with.

Now, that's not to say reading HP can't enhance one's interest in the subject. It can. And that's fine. However, as I recall, Rowling once stated that she's never had anyone come up to her and go "I love your books, now I want to be a witch". Just because someone reads it doesn't mean they'll try to cast spells on everyone they see.

And it's like...I think it was Fushi that mentioned that whenever something is immensely popular with children, people are gonna freak out. Like Pokemon -- if kids were dumb enough to bring cards into class and play with them while the teacher was talking, then yes, they should have been restricted from them. But that doesn't mean all kids will go out and do the same thing.

And the Dumbeldore is gay thing...who the frick cares? Honestly now, the fact that people bother to make that one of their headlines in a newscast is sad. Very sad.

And now I'm done defending something I hate. Go me.
TheRainbowConnection
Just one minor qualification. Books can get people to do things. They can incite great populations to action.

But such books must be: 1) grounded in reality, 2) be intending to persuade, and 3) be contextually relevant.

Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto triggered world-changing events. The Bible and other religious texts, too. Rachel Carson's Silent Spring put the environmentalist movement into action.

However, anyone reasonable can see that these books are in a wholly different category than Harry Potter.

Fiction and nonfiction, people. The average (and below-average) man can differentiate.
Colette
QUOTE(Tris the Reaper @ Oct 22 2007, 11:25 AM) *
And the Dumbeldore is gay thing...who the frick cares? Honestly now, the fact that people bother to make that one of their headlines in a newscast is sad. Very sad.

"OH NO! I haven't made a headline in two whole weeks! I better announce that one of my characters was actually gay, yeah, that'll work."
Tidusu
Yeah the headline thing is so stupid. It's like moo point, it doesn't count. As for the book, read them, seen the movies. Still like them and don't think it's "Evil." So GREEDisGOOD, I agree with you. Those people out there just needs to occupy themselves with something else.

Edite: I meant Moot point, not moo.
Popogeejo
QUOTE
Those people out there just needs to occupy themselves with something else.

QUOTE(Person who says HP is evil)
Why don't you occupy yourself with a book that isn't deemed evil by our centuries old tenants? We have just as much a right to criticise a book we have grounds for believing is evil as you do to read it.


Also, it's "moot point" not "moo point"
GREEDisGOOD
QUOTE(Summoner Colette @ Oct 24 2007, 03:52 PM) *
QUOTE(Tris the Reaper @ Oct 22 2007, 11:25 AM) *
And the Dumbeldore is gay thing...who the frick cares? Honestly now, the fact that people bother to make that one of their headlines in a newscast is sad. Very sad.

"OH NO! I haven't made a headline in two whole weeks! I better announce that one of my characters was actually gay, yeah, that'll work."


I don't think her headline was a desperate grab for attention, but I do think it was uncalled for. I have no problem with Dumbledore actually being gay but the fact that there isn't a single textual example of this in the books, and that she only said it AFTER the books were finished (it couldn't affect her sales) is annoying. I have no problem with activism for a belief, but I don't like that she's changing the book's context for an agenda other than the story.
Nzm
Harry Potter is not devil (actually, the deeper meaning of those books are very close to christianity) and magic is not the same as satanism. Also, if you find Rowling's book evil and blasphemous, what about FMA?
Forsaken Love
yeah this pisses me off, my mum knows religious people who go on about this and is in constant conflict with another religious person who LOVES harry potter XD I belive she hasn't read the books either, it's ridculous, compare this with his dark materials trilogy that came out around the same time, its ridculous, those books are about killing god pretty much and questioning his existance, nothing like that is in harry potter, i mean fullmetal has more anit-christian stuff in it, i bet some people could conjore up some crap about the truth and the gate or something, but they don't because except amoung anime lovers, in England anyway, manga is not popular and no one knows of its existance...my point is, is that harry potter gets all this probably because its popular and so many people love it, and even if it did go against religion, its a FICTIONAL story, just because i read something doesn't mean i'll belive it sheesh
Nzm
In 'His Dark Materials', the agnostic worldview is promoted. The entity that gets killed is not God but something that calls itself a God. It's a big difference.
Forgiven
I am a Bible believing Christian and I'm a fan of Harry Potter. So far, I see nothing wrong with them. I mean, there still are some questionable things in there, but not enough for people calling the series "devil worshiping". At my old church, my pastor would always go on and on about how much Harry Potter is the devil himself blah, blah, blah, and my question was: "Well, did you ever read the books?" His response: "Well, as a christian, you should know what is right and what is wrong,..." and he basically went totally off of the question and made me feel like crap. People who sit there all day and say things like that are ignorant. They need to actually read the books before they can make a comment about them. Just how like I was with public high schools; I used to be against them, but now that I have experienced both sides of the fence (christian school, homeschooling, christian school again, then public high school) and I am very happy that I have had that experience, so now I can really start comparing the facts: High school, a place of learning, achievement, and morons who can't point out the US on a map of the US.

My point is, people who have never read the books or saw the movies needs to either read some reviews, ask someone who has read them, and or go to the library and skim though them. I can't stand it when people don't do there own research, just like my previous christian school principle and the pastor both sat me down and said I was going to go to hell for listening to classic rock (AC/DC, Led Zeppelin,Metallica, and so forth). (Apparently its the devils sex music.)

So my point is, people need to experience both sides of the fence before they can start talking. And no, Harry Potter is not the devil. There are far worst things out there that could be considered the devil than Harry Potter. Harry Potter would be considered Dora the explorer to them.
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