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Vivii
Ok Hi everyone Im am really new to this site, but It is one of my favorite FMA sites and I Really enjoy coming to it:D anyways my question is Since Science can already produce Cloned animals, but when (if they havent already) they make human clones, what will become of them, because they wont actually have a soul will they??? Will they be like a Homunculus( sorry if improper spelling) And what about emotions and memories, will Clones be able to have those, or will they just be dolls!??? Will they only be able to produce a walking shell? I mean is it possible for clones to have fear, love, hate, etc.. the common emotions that we possess? I would love to hear from u guys on this one( oh yeah, if this topic has already been talked about sorry lol, im new:D)
Popogeejo
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Since Science can already produce Cloned animals, but when (if they havent already) they make human clones, what will become of them, because they wont actually have a soul will they???
Clones would be just like normal babies, I don't get why you think they would not have a soul. (Don't base ideas on cartoons please.)

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Will they be like a Homunculus( sorry if improper spelling)

In so far as they would have independent personalities from those they were "cloned" from. no super powers though.

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And what about emotions and memories, will Clones be able to have those, or will they just be dolls!?
They would have memories and emotions. (Even the homunculi you are basing your idea of clones on had emotions and the ability to retain information.)

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Will they only be able to produce a walking shell?

Who would clone an Emo? tongue.gif No, I'm sure they would be able to clone a perfectly normal human. It would be genetically identical to what it was cloned from (unless the scientists try some other stuff) but it would have it's own personality, just like twins and triplets.

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I mean is it possible for clones to have fear, love, hate, etc.. the common emotions that we possess?

Yes. Emotions are caused by chemicals in the brain being secreted by environmental factors so a genetically identical clone will have all the emotions of whatever it was cloned from.

Also, there is no evidence of souls or how one gets one. They are not the source of emotion nor are they the factor that lets you have a memory.
Chiyo
I do believe they already have cloned a human..least that is something I heard once. The idea that clones will just be 'empty shells with no soul' is a very old idea and I suppose still is to people who fear progression in medicine. Just like Popo said an identical twin is a clone of its other half...are they empty shelled freaks?
Lost Alchemist
na i think that the clones will just like others. just without a hm.......can't spell now i'll be back when i get the spelling for the word i want!
Vivii
No Sorry I didn't mean to base it off a cartoon, hehe:d I wasn't implying FMA at all or any other cartoon. Haha Ya but good point i never thought about Twins and triplets:P
Nepharski
I question the process and the application more than the thing itself. Going with my late night television viewing schedule, anyone ever seen Gattaca? Or even The Pretender? We hear about Dolly the sheep and all that, and that's great, but I wonder just how many of Dolly's potential siblings they had to go through to get a perfect clone, and what they did with those "Siblings" if they weren't quite what they were looking for.

Fantastical, perhaps, but today's science fiction is tomorrow's science fact.

Cloning offers valuable opportunities to create organs for transplants, possibly study and cure some diseases, but I can't say I'm fond of the idea of total human cloning, if we even need it in the first place. And humans are an entirely different animal than sheep or dogs; what complications might arise? Metal Gear Solid, anyone?
Amalthea
The cloning of people is 295879 times more disturbing to me than animal cloning. Maybe it's because I consider humans to be of a higher order than other animals, but even for medical reasons, it's just amiss by my morals. I mean, seeing a fellow human being that was fabricated from a real person who was actually born is bothersome to me.
Popogeejo
QUOTE(Amalthea @ Feb 15 2007, 02:04 AM) [snapback]505259[/snapback]
The cloning of people is 295879 times more disturbing to me than animal cloning.

Yay for random numbers!

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I mean, seeing a fellow human being that was fabricated from a real person who was actually born is bothersome to me.

What about IVF? It's basically the same thing.
Plenty of humans have been made in "unnatural" ways.
Kenji
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 10:23 AM) [snapback]505283[/snapback]
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I mean, seeing a fellow human being that was fabricated from a real person who was actually born is bothersome to me.

What about IVF? It's basically the same thing.
Plenty of humans have been made in "unnatural" ways.


At least IVF still involves male and female gamete... and the embryo is implanted back into the mother's womb which means, receiving nutrient from the fetus's parent thru umbilical cord... Human Cloning is 100% test tube... and it doesn't involved male and female gamete... which goes against the law of reproduction.

Most of the "unnatural ways" still involves womb...

IMO Human Cloning is forbidden because we as human, who lust for longevity will abuse them[the cloned ones]. We will abuse them, make them as our spare parts... For instance, when I lost a limb during an accident, I will get another replacement limb from my clone, instead of getting prothestic limbs... The "procedure" of removing his[my cloned one] limb will make him suffer... Removing his limb will make his ability limited...and how about when removing his heart, liver, lungs and brain when we need either of that? Without that, they will die and automatically...we have committed murder... Cloned humans does have the right to live... not treated as a body part bin...
Chiyo
^ We will not create humans just to farm body parts off. If religion and other opposing forces would allow for stem cells to be used no human would have to be born and raised to save anothers life. The cloning you are talking about belongs in a Sci-Fi film. Society will not go ahead with cloning until it can completely justify creating clones.

In fact what you just said sounds exactly like a novel I read...fiction one I might add.
Kenji
QUOTE(Chiyo @ Feb 15 2007, 05:45 PM) [snapback]505426[/snapback]
^ We will not create humans just to farm body parts off. If religion and other opposing forces would allow for stem cells to be used no human would have to be born and raised to save anothers life. The cloning you are talking about belongs in a Sci-Fi film. Society will not go ahead with cloning until it can completely justify creating clones.

In fact what you just said sounds exactly like a novel I read...fiction one I might add.


It might sounds fiction...but if human cloning is permitted, do you think this practice will happen? I bet on it!! It will happen surely happen...

Stem cells only forms a particular organ/body part depending on its engineering...but what I am saying here is butchering another people to save another human live if human cloning is permitted...

Stem cell research and human cloning belongs to different genetic engineering field...
Popogeejo
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At least IVF still involves male and female gamete... and the embryo is implanted back into the mother's womb which means, receiving nutrient from the fetus's parent thru umbilical cord... Human Cloning is 100% test tube... and it doesn't involved male and female gamete... which goes against the law of reproduction.
There is no reason why clones could not be grown in a womans womb...
And even if it is test tube it's still a person.

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IMO Human Cloning is forbidden because we as human, who lust for longevity will abuse them[the cloned ones]. We will abuse them, make them as our spare parts... For instance, when I lost a limb during an accident, I will get another replacement limb from my clone, instead of getting prothestic limbs... The "procedure" of removing his[my cloned one] limb will make him suffer... Removing his limb will make his ability limited...and how about when removing his heart, liver, lungs and brain when we need either of that? Without that, they will die and automatically...we have committed murder... Cloned humans does have the right to live... not treated as a body part bin...

Now your going into speculation with without a sense of logic. If we are going to make clones to use as spare parts we will not be making fully active humans. If we were going to do this we would create semi perfect clone without, for example, heads (yes, this is perfectly plausible). They would be kept alive via artificial means and been unaware of their existence. No Human rights breaches, no suffering, only spare parts. Chiyo is right though, no Human rights group will let this happen because they are stupid.

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We hear about Dolly the sheep and all that, and that's great, but I wonder just how many of Dolly's potential siblings they had to go through to get a perfect clone, and what they did with those "Siblings" if they weren't quite what they were looking for.

Perfectly valid point. That is why we are doing these experiments on animals to see if we can perfect the method first. True, it may not be the same for people but so far animal testing has been proven to be hugely valuable. As for what happened to the failures, the Healthy ones were probably kept as research subjects and the malformed ones would have been put down and autopsied. I'p point out though that the odds of a malformed specimen being produced would probably be the same as in nature, the scientists weren't changing any of the DNA after all.
Kenji
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 08:27 PM) [snapback]505450[/snapback]
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At least IVF still involves male and female gamete... and the embryo is implanted back into the mother's womb which means, receiving nutrient from the fetus's parent thru umbilical cord... Human Cloning is 100% test tube... and it doesn't involved male and female gamete... which goes against the law of reproduction.
There is no reason why clones could not be grown in a womans womb...
And even if it is test tube it's still a person.


The only reason why clones could not be grown in a woman's womb is because clones are 100% test tube!! Clones are human without belly button, which means they doesn't have umbilical cord attached to them when they are a foetus... but cloning is like running a human factory...Futhermore, I din't stat that clones doesn't deserve to live... How the society will treat them[the clones] is still unknown...Rather than pity them later, I rather goes against it, since prevention is better than cure...


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We hear about Dolly the sheep and all that, and that's great, but I wonder just how many of Dolly's potential siblings they had to go through to get a perfect clone, and what they did with those "Siblings" if they weren't quite what they were looking for.
Perfectly valid point. That is why we are doing these experiments on animals to see if we can perfect the method first. True, it may not be the same for people but so far animal testing has been proven to be hugely valuable. As for what happened to the failures, the Healthy ones were probably kept as research subjects and the malformed ones would have been put down and autopsied. I'p point out though that the odds of a malformed specimen being produced would probably be the same as in nature, the scientists weren't changing any of the DNA after all.


Animal cloning has been proven to be successful till now...even the FDA approved the consumption of meat from cloned animals...
Popogeejo
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The only reason why clones could not be grown in a woman's womb is because clones are 100% test tube!!
Why?

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Futhermore, I din't stat that clones doesn't deserve to live...
No one you did...

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Rather than pity them later, I rather goes against it, since prevention is better than cure...
We should still have the cure available if the prevention doesn't work.
Kenji
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 09:12 PM) [snapback]505457[/snapback]
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The only reason why clones could not be grown in a woman's womb is because clones are 100% test tube!!
Why?


Because clones are born from somatic cell nuclear transfer [SCNT]!! It doesn't need any womb... thus clones are 100% test tube...

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Futhermore, I din't stat that clones doesn't deserve to live...
No one you did...

Glad to know that...


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Rather than pity them later, I rather goes against it, since prevention is better than cure...
We should still have the cure available if the prevention doesn't work.


Whats the cure? How? Grand massacre? Chop them into hamburger meat and feed to the tigers at zoo? Aww...yuck
Popogeejo
QUOTE(Kenji @ Feb 15 2007, 01:28 PM) [snapback]505458[/snapback]
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 09:12 PM) [snapback]505457[/snapback]
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The only reason why clones could not be grown in a woman's womb is because clones are 100% test tube!!
Why?


Because clones are born from somatic cell nuclear transfer [SCNT]!! It doesn't need any womb... thus clones are 100% test tube...

That doesn't mean the embryo can't be put in the womb...and even if i can't I fail to see the problem. The end result is still a human.


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Rather than pity them later, I rather goes against it, since prevention is better than cure...
We should still have the cure available if the prevention doesn't work.

Whats the cure? How? Grand massacre? Chop them into hamburger meat and feed to the tigers at zoo? Aww...yuck

Simply create a clone with a the gene that allows a brain to form removed. You now can grow a dummy human that is not strictly alive and can be used for spare parts. It doesn't suffer because it has no awareness of anything. Your Tiger and Zoo thing is just non nonsensical and just illogical.
Kenji
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 09:38 PM) [snapback]505462[/snapback]
QUOTE(Kenji @ Feb 15 2007, 01:28 PM) [snapback]505458[/snapback]
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 09:12 PM) [snapback]505457[/snapback]
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The only reason why clones could not be grown in a woman's womb is because clones are 100% test tube!!
Why?


Because clones are born from somatic cell nuclear transfer [SCNT]!! It doesn't need any womb... thus clones are 100% test tube...

That doesn't mean the embryo can't be put in the womb...and even if i can't I fail to see the problem.


Who wants to put the SCNT embryo into a womb and risk herself getting cancer?

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The end result is still a human.
A human with a different way on how they come to this world...

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Simply create a clone with a the gene that allows a brain to form removed. You now can grow a dummy human that is not strictly alive and can be used for spare parts. It doesn't suffer because it has no awareness of anything. Your Tiger and Zoo thing is just non nonsensical and just illogical.


Thats for unborn clones...what is the cure for existing clones that have born if cloning does get approval near future and somehow, people found a loophole and want to "cure" it? This is the time my "Tiger and Zoo" theory comes to work....It is cheap, It is fast and It is easy...


------
I have never debated like this... laugh.gif
Popogeejo
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Who wants to put the SCNT embryo into a womb and risk herself getting cancer?
It's a minimal risk and people have taken bigger risks for science before.

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A human with a different way on how they come to this world...

Your point being?

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Thats for unborn clones...
...You've lost me here. The clones I described would be "born" but not alive in the traditional sense. It sounds stupid but it's possible.

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what is the cure for existing clones that have born if cloning does get approval near future and somehow, people found a loophole and want to "cure" it?

What the hell are you talking about? A cure for what? If we made fully active human clones then they would be subject to the same rights as everyone else, they would not be forced to donate their organs to the person they were cloned from...(assuming that's what you mean)

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This is the time my "Tiger and Zoo" theory comes to work....It is cheap, It is fast and It is easy...
1) Your "Tiger and Zoo" thing is not a theory.
2) It seems like your saying if we clone people we'll end up using them for food "because we could."
In that case I'd point out we haven't done this with homeless people yet and it would be easier to clone, oh I don't know, cattle and such for animal consumption.
3) This is about the stupidest argument I've heard against cloning. It doesn't even begin to make sense.

All these debates are getting bogged down in retarded statements. Please people, think through your points loigcally before you post them.

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Stem cell research and human cloning belongs to different genetic engineering field...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6353919.stm
Kenji
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 10:39 PM) [snapback]505471[/snapback]
It's a minimal risk and people have taken bigger risks for science before.


Who will be so stupid willingly let herself to contract uterus cancer...

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Your point being?
Take how you are born against how they are born... easy as that...

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You've lost me here. The clones I described would be "born" but not alive in the traditional sense. It sounds stupid but it's possible.


I got it... Same concept with KFC's chickens long long [10-12 years ago] time ago...They grow chickens without heads, feathers and feets... and yet the chickens grows day by day...

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What the hell are you talking about? A cure for what? If we made fully active human clones then they would be subject to the same rights as everyone else, they would not be forced to donate their organs to the person they were cloned from...(assuming that's what you mean)
How do you know they will be subjected to the same rights as everyone else?
How do you know they will not be forced to butchered themselves to donate their parts?

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1) Your "Tiger and Zoo" thing is not a theory.
2) It seems like your saying if we clone people we'll end up using them for food "because we could."

Forget it...thats my own theory...
I dint stat that "we'll end up using them as food"....

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3) This is about the stupidest argument I've heard against cloning. It doesn't even begin to make sense.

All these debates are getting bogged down in retarded statements. Please people, think through your points loigcally before you post them.
Just because my theory sounds retard it doesn't mean the whole arguement debate, to be precise, sounds stupid... Try think out of the box... =.=

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Stem cell research and human cloning belongs to different genetic engineering field...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6353919.stm


Chiyo
QUOTE(Kenji @ Feb 15 2007, 03:20 PM) [snapback]505480[/snapback]
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 10:39 PM) [snapback]505471[/snapback]
It's a minimal risk and people have taken bigger risks for science before.


Who will be so stupid willingly let herself to contract uterus cancer...


You said yourself it was a risk....its not that a woman would actually just be giving herself cancer. Its like people who smoke know it could give them cancer but that won't stop them
Kenji
QUOTE(Chiyo @ Feb 15 2007, 11:26 PM) [snapback]505482[/snapback]
QUOTE(Kenji @ Feb 15 2007, 03:20 PM) [snapback]505480[/snapback]
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 10:39 PM) [snapback]505471[/snapback]
It's a minimal risk and people have taken bigger risks for science before.


Who will be so stupid willingly let herself to contract uterus cancer...


You said yourself it was a risk....


I dint said so... From the beginning, I dint even stat that cloning involves uterus....unsure.gif
IMO, cloning is 100% test tube as I mention above...
Chiyo

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Who wants to put the SCNT embryo into a womb and risk herself getting cancer?


Is what I was replying to...you mentioned it being a risk then go on to say its a certainty
Popogeejo
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Who will be so stupid willingly let herself to contract uterus cancer...
It's A MINIMAL RISK! That means the odds of the women getting caner is, and this is the technical part, Minimal! There is a risk that Astronauts will be killed at several points in a mission but they do it. Same can be said for people in the army.

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Take how you are born against how they are born... easy as that...

I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem. Caesarean babies are born differently but they are still normal. Why should test tube babies be any different. Please explain, carefully.

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How do you know they will be subjected to the same rights as everyone else?
How do you know they will not be forced to butchered themselves to donate their parts?
Because these would be clones of humans and therefore subject to human rights.

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I dint stat that "we'll end up using them as food"....

Well you did say we would feed them to animals...

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Just because my theory sounds retard it doesn't mean the whole arguement debate, to be precise, sounds stupid...
Those were two separate statements. Your statement was retarded and made no sense. This debate is good (well it's okay) but there are tons of stupid arguments being made in several debates that make the whole debate district rather hard to enjoy.

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Try think out of the box... =.=

What the hell is that even supposed to mean? It's such a stupid term bandied by people who have no idea what they're talking about!
Kenji
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 11:37 PM) [snapback]505487[/snapback]
Take how you are born against how they are born... easy as that...
I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem. Caesarean babies are born differently but they are still normal. Why should test tube babies be any different. Please explain, carefully.

Damn...I am so frustrated now for stepping into the wrong boat...gotta continue nevertheless... its rude and unresponsible to leave people wondering...

Normal babies born are with umbilical cords thus they will have belly button and normal babies embryo is a mitosis and meiosis of both male and female gamete. Furthermore, they are protected by amnion fluid when they are inside mother's womb. They are being feed with mother's nutrients and got the goodness of breast milk after they were born... Whereas a clone is produced from SCNT and when in developing stage they were feed with unknown substances, soaked in an unknown substance... and they are breed with tubes connected to them...

<Remark: I translated a few terms from Malay language,I apologize for spelling errors>


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Just because my theory sounds retard it doesn't mean the whole arguement debate, to be precise, sounds stupid...
Those were two separate statements. Your statement was retarded and made no sense. This debate is good (well it's okay) but there are tons of stupid arguments being made in several debates that make the whole debate district rather hard to enjoy.


Debates are ment to be "stupid" to each other so that they can be debated continuesly...
Which is why I stayed out from debates at my school...
This is the first time I am so commited to a debate...

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Try think out of the box... =.=
What the hell is that even supposed to mean? It's such a stupid term bandied by people who have no idea what they're talking about!


If it is such a stupid term, then forget it... it is too simple and yet complicated...
Chiyo
I think Popo was trying to say is even if you think 'outside the box' you cannot presume things will turn the way you believe they will. To me looking at it practically does not mean it will become human farming
Kenji
My tiger and zoo theory is only a concept of what human will do in order to wipe out something they wish to dissapear... Oftenly they will resort to the cheapest way, the easiest way and the fastest way... Take that trivia and start think differently... It doesn't really necessary means "chop clones into hamburger meat and feed them to the tigers at zoo". Just because it sounds stupid it does not mean the whole thing is useless, retard, silly, dummy or whatever you called it....

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I am damn sleepy now...good nite..zzz
Popogeejo
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Normal babies born are with umbilical cords, thus they will have belly button. Furthermore, they are protected by amnion fluid when they are inside mother's womb. They are being feed with mother's nutrients and got the goodness of breast milk after they were born...
I know all that, and mother milk has nothing to do with anything. Any milk will do for the most part.

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Whereas a clone is being feed with unknown substances, soaked in an unknown substance... and they are breed with tubes connected to them...
I'm fairly confident they are "soaked" in amnion fluid. It should be fairly easy to replicate and they would be fed proper nutrients and such.
I still don't see what any of this has to do with anything, the end result is still a person, except the clone won't have bellybutton.
Humans are humans, bellybutton or not.
Chiyo
QUOTE(Kenji @ Feb 15 2007, 04:13 PM) [snapback]505497[/snapback]
Just because it sounds stupid it does not mean the whole thing is useless, retard, silly, dummy or whatever you called it....

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I am damn sleepy now...good nite..zzz


I don't remember calling it any of those things, and neither did Popo.
Kenji
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 16 2007, 12:14 AM) [snapback]505498[/snapback]
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Normal babies born are with umbilical cords, thus they will have belly button. Furthermore, they are protected by amnion fluid when they are inside mother's womb. They are being feed with mother's nutrients and got the goodness of breast milk after they were born...
I know all that, and mother milk has nothing to do with anything. Any milk will do for the most part.


Oh...really? Then whats with all the researches that proves the goodness of breastmilk to new born child??

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Whereas a clone is being feed with unknown substances, soaked in an unknown substance... and they are breed with tubes connected to them...
I'm fairly confident they are "soaked" in amnion fluid. It should be fairly easy to replicate and they would be fed proper nutrients and such.
I still don't see what any of this has to do with anything, the end result is still a person, except the clone won't have bellybutton.
Humans are humans, bellybutton or not.


Why clones need to be soaked in amnion fluids when they are guaranteed shockproof?
Again, I emphasize...I doesn't see clones as monsters... They are still human albeit they are came from different way...

QUOTE(Chiyo @ Feb 16 2007, 12:17 AM) [snapback]505499[/snapback]
QUOTE(Kenji @ Feb 15 2007, 04:13 PM) [snapback]505497[/snapback]
Just because it sounds stupid it does not mean the whole thing is useless, retard, silly, dummy or whatever you called it....

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I am damn sleepy now...good nite..zzz


I don't remember calling it any of those things, and neither did Popo.


What I mean whole thing is not limited to the "Tiger and Zoo" alone...but rather the whole of my debate...
Popogeejo
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Oh...really? Then whats with all the researches that proves the goodness of breastmilk to new born child??
Mothers milk might be the best but it's not the only option. Cow's milk is a perfectly good substitute. So is Yaks and goats milk.

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Again, I emphasize...I doesn't see clones as monsters... They are still human albeit they are came from different way...
Then why the hell are you arguing the point? It's pointless.
Kenji
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 16 2007, 12:22 AM) [snapback]505501[/snapback]
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Again, I emphasize...I doesn't see clones as monsters... They are still human albeit they are came from different way...
Then why the hell are you arguing the point? It's pointless.


EDIT- You are the one who dragged me into this debate...I was debating about the purpose of human cloning at first...but somehow the subject just got dragged deeper and deeper till as confusing and complicated as now...
Thats the power of debate, IMO....

SO popo, in the beginning, you thought that I think clones are monsters huh? laugh.gif
Chiyo
You need to say something if you're going to quote.
Nepharski
While were on the subject, why do we need to clone humans at all? Animals and organs, I can understand, even approve of. But people? What for?
Kenji
Why human reproduce is the reason why do people now resort to human cloning...
Not every human was born perfect... ^.^
Nepharski
...Born perfect? The last group of fellows to think they could define and procure "Perfect" children left Europe a bloody mess with their hasty exit. Perfect? No human being was born perfect. Let us leave eugenics out of this.

Beethoven was deaf, but he still composed some of the greatest music the world has ever known.
Kenji
I think I gotta reshuffle the words...

Every humans are born imperfect... ^.^
Nepharski
Yes, we are; some not as noticably so, but still.
Kenji
Ditch the perfect human aside...
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Cloning is another alternative way to reproduce, which is why we need to clone humans now... Religion is the only obstacle for human cloning...
Popogeejo
Clones would be good for medical research. A group of genetically identical people on which tests can be run (the clones doing so of their own free will of course) would be extremely handy.
Emily_BrokenAngel
Honestly, I think that the clones will just like others.....
As.... Homunculus! XD
Yeah.. īcause they donīt have soul....Same with the clones
Umh... Two Emilys unsure.gif
Whaaaaa!! No!!! XP
Kenji
I can even accuse you are soulless now...
I can even say I am soulless for now....
Our body runs= we live, our body stops= we drop dead...
Souls are only religious thing...
Stealth
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 16 2007, 12:59 PM) [snapback]505702[/snapback]
Clones would be good for medical research. A group of genetically identical people on which tests can be run (the clones doing so of their own free will of course) would be extremely handy.


Yeah right, as if any one would want to be tested on. They would clam that they should have rights like every one else and treated like every one else. They can be far more useful then being used as a test subject.

Chiyo
^ Everyday people set themselves up for science experiments...as do multiple births....they have the choice and they take it. Thats what he's getting at.
Kenji
Furthermore, with cloning, we can manipulate their brain structure...
Chiyo
How do we do that?
Kenji
change the structure of certain cells... It can be done...too complicated to explain because I am not into genetic engineering... ^.^
Chiyo
But then that wouldn't be making an exact replica anymore....thats pretty much just another 'designer babies' idea.
Kenji
as long as they still have the same systems that function like normal human being researches can be done on them. This is better than conducting research on mice for human's sake...
Chiyo
^ cloning humans for experimentation is better than using mice?
Popogeejo
QUOTE(Stealth @ Feb 16 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]505827[/snapback]
Yeah right, as if any one would want to be tested on. They would clam that they should have rights like every one else and treated like every one else.
...
There are plenty of scientific programs that use human volunteers to do research. By having genetically identical people you have a more accurate way to measure any changes.

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They can be far more useful then being used as a test subject.
Such as?
We could use them for labour, yes, but that's hardly requires genetically identical people so it's rather redundant.
They could have military applications I guess. Hitler wasn't the only one who wanted a race of super soldiers and it does have real merit even if it is morally dubious. However, because their personalities wouldn't be the same, such a force would only be as effective (roughly) as a "normal" army. (Maybe slightly better moral due to lack of racial and social divisions and a sense of belonging.) To make it worth the cost you would have to go into even more moral grey areas such as brain washing to get the most out of them.

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This is better than conducting research on mice for human's sake...

But using mice is a lot less expensive and experiments like brain alteration that you mentioned, are done on mice because the high risk factors.
Less dangerous medical tests would be fine for humans though. (Lets not get into the whole animal testing debate though, we have a thread for that already.)
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