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Amol
QUOTE(GREEDisGOOD @ Jan 23 2007, 07:02 AM) [snapback]496582[/snapback]
Think about it: WWI and WWII, the worst actrocities in human history, were results of greed.


And a bit of Pride !
Envy II
WWII was caused by greed?

I don't think so. If you look back at the reasons that Hitler decided to hate the Jews then I think it mainy is wrath.
Popogeejo
QUOTE(Saxophonist @ Jan 28 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]498252[/snapback]
WWII was caused by greed?

I don't think so. If you look back at the reasons that Hitler decided to hate the Jews then I think it mainy is wrath.

His hate of the Jews didn't start WW2...

Please stop trying to make such events sound so simple, folks.
Envy II
That's not really what I meant... unsure.gif

I just would like to know exactly how greed started World War II.
Amol
Greed is not the right sin to be applicable in the case of WW-II , but i think its more of Pride and Wrath that was the major cause.
Popogeejo
QUOTE(Amol @ Jan 29 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]498471[/snapback]
Greed is not the right sin to be applicable in the case of WW-II , but i think its more of Pride and Wrath that was the major cause.

Please explain more in depth.
Amol
After the WW-I the consequences were not obviously in the favor of Germans.
The treaties that they were forced to sign were not in anyway showing concern about Gremany by the Allied nations !

Reasons For the growing Wrath :

1) Germany lost its overseas empire due to the war
2) Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, Latvia and Yugoslavia were created, with the parts of Germany and its other allies.
3) Treaty of Versailles

Reason for Pride can mainly be the belive of the Germans to be a superior race.

These reasons made the everybody really unhappy and .....
Thus the main cause was Wrath and a bit of Pride.
These situations gave Rise personalities like to Adolf Hitler and the war too !
Popogeejo
Still haven't heard anything on WW1 but fine...

QUOTE(Amol @ Jan 30 2007, 07:38 AM) [snapback]498698[/snapback]
After the WW-I the consequences were not obviously in the favor of Germans.

That tends to be what happens when you loose a War. I'd point out that all in all Russia came out of the worse possibly worse off than Germany.

QUOTE
Reasons For the growing Wrath :

1) Germany lost its overseas empire due to the war
2) Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, Latvia and Yugoslavia were created, with the parts of Germany and its other allies.
3) Treaty of Versailles

Non of these resulted in a real feeling of Wrath, it was a more a feeling a betrayal. This, mixed with a new form of Government which couldn't achieve anything caused a feeling of resentment to the Weimar Government, who the majority of the people believed had surrendered to soon.
Even then, these events only made it slightly possible for extreme parties to gain power. The Wall street crash and following inflation also drove the people to look at the more extreme parties for help.

QUOTE
Reason for Pride can mainly be the belive of the Germans to be a superior race.
Not necessarily true, Timmy. It wasn't until Hitler started his speeches that the Majority of Germans took on the super race Ethos.

QUOTE
These situations gave Rise personalities like to Adolf Hitler and the war too !

No they didn't! The situations you named were not the major factors for Hitler's rise to power. The Stock market crash, Article 48, the death of Hindenburg and the Reichstag fire had more effect on getting Hitler into power.
These events let Hitler have all Communist parties banned (the fire was believed to be started by a communist although these days it's now heavily doubted), the market crash sent people looking to stronger leadership in the extreme left and right, Article 48 allowed someone in Hitler's position to pass laws without a vote in times of emergency and the death of Hindenburg made the Gov. declare the needed state of emergency allowing Hitler to pass any law he wanted making him effectively a dictator. There was also the use of the SA and the Night of Long Knives which both allowed Hitler to take power and further cement it.

Such events can't be so easily defined as Greed, Wrath or Pride. There were huge amounts of factors to rule in. You can't try and put WW2 down to such simple things.

(I took WW2 history 2 years ago and have forgotten large amounts of it, please point out any major factual mistakes I made.)
Kenji
Greed because Greed will eventually lead into 5 more sins. When someone is greedy they will Lust for everything that matters being it material or non material. The lust will eventually grew to another sin which is Envy...because someone will envy others that others has the thing that he doesn't have. Envy will eventually grew to a Wrath to achieve something someone greed for and that will brings pain and misery to people, which is Sloth... Someone who is greedy will lust for Pride too because there is no evil villains that doesn't want to become famous.

Gluttony? haha..thats for Bulemia patients!
Vash_the_Gunslinger
Why would you lust for pride? Usually, pride is self-determination. Maybe if your lustfully prideful.
Kenji
What I mean in "lust for pride" is "someone which is greedy will eventually want to respected and looked highly upon in a very short time" There is pride in every corner of human heart...but it is a human's behavior to control the "amount" of Pride he wants...
Nepharski
QUOTE(Amol @ Jan 29 2007, 11:38 PM) [snapback]498698[/snapback]
After the WW-I the consequences were not obviously in the favor of Germans.
The treaties that they were forced to sign were not in anyway showing concern about Gremany by the Allied nations !

Reasons For the growing Wrath :

1) Germany lost its overseas empire due to the war
2) Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, Latvia and Yugoslavia were created, with the parts of Germany and its other allies.
3) Treaty of Versailles

Reason for Pride can mainly be the belive of the Germans to be a superior race.

These reasons made the everybody really unhappy and .....
Thus the main cause was Wrath and a bit of Pride.
These situations gave Rise personalities like to Adolf Hitler and the war too !

WWI was the direct result of Imperialism and Nationalism, Greed and Pride respectively. Specifically, the Greed of the Austrians and the Pride of the Serbians, which lit a fuse of distrust that had been steadily sparked over the course of European expansionism.

WWII was caused by quite a few factors, not all of which can be so cleanly sorted amongst the Seven Sins. Germans were admittedly resentful to all outsiders in the wake of their loses from WWI, and it was later that Adolf Hitler appealed to their sense of German heritage as a tool for his own rise to power. The Prideful thought of a supreme race is nothing new, nor is the combination of Envy and Wrath that lead to anti-semitism, and land wars generally have a soft spot for the Avaricious as well.

Gluttony, Sloth, and Lust do not directly apply here, beyond the Gluttony of resources and the Lust for power and land (although neither are the orthodox uses of the terms).
Bluewish
My brother told me that thy're all the same.
As in amount of sin....or something like that.
Amalthea
Greed or Envy. Both can lead to very, very serious mishaps.

As for Pride, nothing is wrong with confidence. wink.gif Haha.
Kenji
An turbocharged engine boosting above 3.5kPA will explode...

Over confident is lethal too~

Nepharski
QUOTE(Amalthea @ Feb 10 2007, 07:53 PM) [snapback]503776[/snapback]
As for Pride, nothing is wrong with confidence. wink.gif Haha.

There's a rather sizable gap between confidence and arrogance, Amalthea.
travisbmoore
Lust is cause wanting what you can't have well it is just bad.

[@Nepharski I managed to bring lust back because it was the devourer that takes all the souls of the wicked.]
Popogeejo
QUOTE(travisbmoore @ Feb 12 2007, 04:15 PM) [snapback]504346[/snapback]
Lust is cause wanting what you can't have well it is just bad. I managed to bring lust back because it was the devourer that takes all the souls of the wicked.

What about wanting world peace?
Just because you want something you can't have doesn't make you bad.
Kenji
QUOTE(travisbmoore @ Feb 13 2007, 12:15 AM) [snapback]504346[/snapback]
Lust is cause wanting what you can't have well it is just bad.

[@Nepharski I managed to bring lust back because it was the devourer that takes all the souls of the wicked.]



Lust for something good [e.g: World peace]= BAD
Lust for something not good [e.g: materials]=BAD

haha... laugh.gif dry.gif tongue.gif
slayeralchemist
I believe that'd be pride because it is indeed the source from which the others arise.
And hey c'mon, to all of u that say it is Lust, how can u say that? Lust ain't so bad, I mean it is bad but it isnt for sure the deadliest tongue.gif
Nugget
Pride.

If you are too proud of yourself, you won't be able to admit there's something wrong with you (Being too lazy, being to wrathful etc.) and you won't be able to be a better person.
Amol
you wont be a better person with any of the sins
U.M.B.R.I.E.L.
It would have to be Envy in my eyes.
Envy...
Could cause you to kill people.
Could cause you to turn people against that certain person.
Could cause you to mabe even lose your sanity...

Trust me, I know.
I've seen it happen...-squint-
Chiyo
The other sins could apply to the effects you mentioned there, wrath can make you kill people, greed can make you turn others against someone (so all attention is for you) and any of the sins could drive you insane
Amol
so are they all inter-related ?
Chiyo
I suppose in most cases one could easily lead into another, bar gluttony and sloth. I was just saying for those particular examples it does just have to be envy that plays a part.
Sleeping Forest
Pride really is one of, if not the most dangerous sin. Being too proud can get you into serious trouble. I mean, there are so many stories that warn people about pride and hubris... dry.gif
ゆきえいり
I think that Lust is the worst because with Lust comes Love. And Love snares anything in it's way. It can help, or it can mess you up.
Elania Eless
I voted Pride. Pride basically killed my mom. She though she was too good to go and get help for her Alcoholism. So she drank herself to death.
Kenji
That is something not worthy to mention about...
If it hurts, you can edit it...and keep it within yourself... ^.^
Scythoro
They're all equal.

Pride- There's already been an example posted

Wrath- Applies also revenge and Ghandi's example of "an eye for and eye will leave the whole world blind" is a good example. You anger will consume you until you eventually begin to lash out to those you love.

Lust- This applies to not just lust of the flesh, but also worldly possessions; however, lust of the flesh can in fact kill you (STD s)

Greed-you want more and more until your own desires possess you, when you finally achieve what you want then it's still not enough; your life is hollowed by desiring only materialistic things.

Gluttony-You gorge yourself for whatever reason you see fit ( laugh.gif or lack their of), you eat just eat and then you become at risk of heart disease, diabetes, etc.

Envy- your jealous of what others have (money, spouse, job), this jealousy drives and eats at you until you either put it out of your mind or you take matters into your own hands (steal/kill)

Sloth-this is probably the saddest of sins, your lazy, not just lazy, your slothful. You procrastinate until the very end. And when the end approaches you look back and see how meaningless you life really was. to have wasted life and not accomplished anything. If you live by this sin then you're main purpose of life is to just take up space. (the description of this sin does not apply to those who are unable to do anything, this applies to those with a choice.)

These descriptions can intertwine with others.

And that's how it is.
~Kurenai~
gluttony because america is the fattest country in the world...lol

ah no, I'd say pride. why...like what others in favor of pride said...pride leads to the rest of them..
Night Shadow Alchemist
envy, revenge is never good and always dangerous
Amalthea
Really, every human being is guilty of all seven sins, some people more with certain sins than others.

Gluttony and lust are two sins that not everyone would be very guilty of. Greed, envy, sloth, pride, and wrath are the sins I that I think are most seriously committed.

(Y'know, if I hadn't gotten into FMA, I would never have realized how interesting the Seven Deadly Sins are and the history they hold.)

EDIT: Also, if apparently pride is the one that leads to the other sins, couldn't you say any of the sins will lead to the others?

Envy II
How can envy be so dangerous?

I'm curious. Not everybody who's envious kills. >_>

I'd say wrath is the most dangerous when I really think of it. Revenge seems to be what people typically kill others over.
Amethyst Sunset
Pride is like, the root of all sin.

We sin because we know we can, we think we can control everything, we're better than the rest, etc. Most of the time, it's the sin that leads to the rest - and the one I'm most guilty of. XD
Amalthea
QUOTE(Envy II @ Jun 16 2007, 09:15 PM) [snapback]553022[/snapback]
How can envy be so dangerous?

I'm curious. Not everybody who's envious kills. >_>

I'd say wrath is the most dangerous when I really think of it. Revenge seems to be what people typically kill others over.


I remember reading on Wikipedia under the Seven Deadly Sins that envious people are typically pleased when the person they are jealous of suffers. (This even describes the FMA character perfectly!) That itself could lead to danger if you think outside the box.

Also, if someone is so insanely jealous of someone, they may go to drastic measures to be like that person/obtain what that person has.
gunslinger alchemist
seems to me these seven sin encompis (sp?) every sin you can possibly commit. thier only counter balance is the beatitudes or the seven(?) blessings....

in response to amalthea: You said about fma and the history of the seven deadly sins:
y' know (if you haven't seen the fma movie, sorry I'll spoil it for you if continue reading.

Envy turned into a green dragon when he came to this world. The Demon lord in charge of punishing the Envious is Levithon. It came in the form of a great dragon. check it on wikapedia.
there's also Barbello (wrath)
Ademoneus(lust)
Astarte(Pride)
Astaothe(sloth)
Belial(greed)
Beezulbub(glutony)

All of these rule over different levels of hell according to a 12th century philosiphor DANTE.
in conection to Dante, Parcelus.....................................Hoenhiem supposedly lectured on the topic of Homunculi. a topic which was new in his time(the 15 hundreds)


<Merged double posts. Please avoid posting consecutively. Please use EDIT instead. ^^ 06/26/07 ~Tombow>
Twilightz
You could've edited your last post instead of posting again. o_O And this thread is not for talking about the FMA characters.

I'd say Pride, because basically all the other sins arise from that.
gunslinger alchemist
agreed sorry i rambled
Bling_bling_Angel
Pride is generally the root of why people screw up, if you think about it...mellow.gif I guess, for me, that's the heaviest of the 7.
Carnal Malefactor
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Jul 10 2007, 01:56 AM) [snapback]560841[/snapback]
Pride is generally the root of why people screw up, if you think about it...mellow.gif I guess, for me, that's the heaviest of the 7.

No, that's why WOMEN screw up.

Men screw up because of lust and greed, mostly.
The RZA
^^^Throw some Sloth in there too Bacon. Becasue if you combine men + food + beer + tv = lazy as hell.
Fujihakama
I say Pride. Some people pride themselves too much above everything and everyone else.......would you call that arrogance, or just pride?
Also, most people make HUGE mistakes because they were too proud.
GREEDisGOOD
QUOTE(Abstruse Eulogy @ Jul 10 2007, 03:08 PM) *
QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Jul 10 2007, 01:56 AM) *
Pride is generally the root of why people screw up, if you think about it...mellow.gif I guess, for me, that's the heaviest of the 7.

No, that's why WOMEN screw up.

Men screw up because of lust and greed, mostly.


Are you saying man are greedier than women? I can kind of understand the lust part because of genetics, but that still isn't completely true. And I'd say men are just as prone to pride, if not moreso than women. Think about the whole "I'm a man, I've to act like one" that leads to so many problems. I really don't think any sin is seperated to any specific gender.

As for the most dangerous, I would have to say greed. Greed leads to so many other problems, and worse yet, it can never be satisfied; we just go on wanting more and more and more...
MonsterEnvy
Guess what, there're 14 now.

The Vatican recently decided on seven 'social sins' to accompany the cardinal vices, in case anyone wants to look at these. I think they decided to be a lot more controversial this time around. Personally, I think they got about five, though two more than make up for their temporary lapse into sanity.

1. "Bioethical" violations such as birth control

2. "Morally dubious" experiments such as stem cell research

3. Drug abuse

4. Polluting the environment

5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor

6. Excessive wealth

7. Creating poverty
Colette
I heard about this the day they were announced.

It's absolutely ridiculous. The POINT of the original seven is that they're sins we ALL commit, and we're supposed to cut down on them. So, I guess I need to cut down on my drug dealing? And there's the fact than a good chunk of them are modern issues, and certainly not timeless like the original seven.

Not to mention almost all these sins can be under the original 7. Excessive wealth -> Greed, etc.

And there's also the fact that it's HIGHLY hypocritical of them. I don't know about you, but last I heard, the Catholic church was obscenely rich.

Though it rises an interesting point. If we have 7 new sins, don't we need 7 new holy virtues?
Naivete
QUOTE
Guess what, there're 14 now.
[snip]

5, 6 and 7 overlap. o.O

Meh, the 7 new ones go into the existing 7 ones. Maybe they think we're too stupid to realise that, so they've gotten more specific, not to mention contemporary.
cherry-chan. :D
It's really hard to decide, but I voted Pride. I'm a Catholic, and going to a Catholic school, I've been taught with things regarding sins and religion and all that. I think pride is the... deadliest sin because as I remember from my studies, pride is the root of all evil--or of all sin.

(This is why I was so amazed at Arakawa-san's work on the homunculi. XD Pride being the first homunculus and all.)
Edward Cardinal Elric
The generally accepted hierarchy of the Seven Cardinal Sins (the order used by Pope St. Gregory I) is:

From least to greatest "severity"
  • Lust
  • Gluttony
  • Greed
  • Sloth
  • Wrath
  • Envy
  • Pride
As others have stated, pride is the "greatest" of the seven, and the one from which all evil inherently follows (pride was the capital offense which drove Lucifer away from God as he desired to become God himself). Pride is a particularly dangerous attitude because it can lead one not only to sin materially, but also to deny one's wrongdoings (impenitence).

Further, there are three subgroups of sorts within the master list of Cardinal Sins:

The first three lust, gluttony, and greed are of lesser overall severity as they represent the disordered desire for that which is basically good in nature.

The middle one sloth is essentially the lack of any desire to make proper use of the goods and talents that God has bestowed upon man.

The last three wrath, envy, and pride are more serious because they describe the improper desire for that which is inherently contrary to love.


QUOTE (MonsterEnvy @ Mar 13 2008, 01:49 AM) *
Guess what, there're 14 now.

The Vatican recently decided on seven 'social sins' to accompany the cardinal vices, in case anyone wants to look at these. I think they decided to be a lot more controversial this time around. Personally, I think they got about five, though two more than make up for their temporary lapse into sanity.

The many wonders of what happens when the sensationalist media tries to analyze matters pertaining to the Church. In all truth, the original team of seven remains unaltered. The Church was simply trying to provide some teaching and direct guidance in relating the Seven Cardinal Sins to a few modern issues that impact the lives of individuals today. Nothing was actually changed, the popular media just tried to spin the story in that way to grab attention.

QUOTE (Summoner Colette @ Mar 19 2008, 06:25 PM) *
And there's also the fact that it's HIGHLY hypocritical of them. I don't know about you, but last I heard, the Catholic church was obscenely rich.

The whole idea that the Church is crazy rich is really more a matter of public perception than a concrete fact. The Catholic Church, last I checked, was the world's largest charitable organization and educator. While there was definitely a time in the past where members of the Catholic clergy lived in extravagance, this is definitely not the norm in the modern Church. The typical salary of a parish priest, while certainly plenty to live off of, is nothing to write home about these days (and tends not to adjust well for inflation in my understanding). People like to point toward all of the fine and lavishly adorned structures and items that the Church owns and pronounce such as proof of wastefulness and decadence, but what such individuals fail to grasp is that most if not all of these things are not owned by members of the hierarchy for their individual use, but rather they are goods that have been made to glorify God. The Church cannot simply sell such items; they are of singular, unique value and dedicated to God in a special manner.


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