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Full Version: Might Edward have the Napoleon Complex? Interesting Question, N'est Pas?
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Funderful
QUOTE
In the fields of psychology and psychoanalysis, Napoleon complex (or Napoleon syndrome) is a colloquial term used to describe a type of inferiority complex suffered by people who are short.


QUOTE
Compensatory behavior exhibited by those with a Napoleon complex may also include being overly aggressive or argumentative and a need to over-achieve, which all serve to give the person a sense of greater self worth.



...

huh.gif
Perhaps?
Mustang_93
Yes that could be a possibility, but somtimes he can control his "problem". But if he didn't have a Napleon complex he may have not have done what he did.
CodenameElizabeth
That is an interesting theory, Funderful.

I wonder if Arakawa was a psychology enthusiast at all? She very well *could* have used aspects of this theory in her development of Ed's character...

A lot of short guys I know are *definitely* more agressive/temperamental that my tall male friends. It's defintiely textbook "Napoleon Complex" material. It's as though they feel they need to overcompensate for their lack of stature in other ways (like driving badass cars, or being the loudest, drunkest guy at the bar yelling at the football game on the TV...) blink.gif
Fushi
Quite honestly, as a girl who very much enjoyed learning about Napoleon and who found him very interesting, this thought has crossed my mind before. Although I wasn't aware of an actual Napoleon complex in psychology...I just compared Ed to Napoleon because of their...'vertical difficulties'.

But I also compared Roy to Napoleon before, because Napoleon was known for his ambition. (Although, it was that ambition, along with his seemingly inability to sit still, that contributed to his downfall). Nevermind that Napoleon was known for being arrogant. After comparing both Ed and Roy to Napoleon, I figured that if you combined the two or something, you might get the good ol' French Emperor.



However, about Ed having a Napoleon Complex....I would say most definitely. The description of the complex fits Ed very well. (Although I'm not quite sure if he feels a need to over-achieve...)
Funderful
QUOTE
However, about Ed having a Napoleon Complex....I would say most definitely. The description of the complex fits Ed very well. (Although I'm not quite sure if he feels a need to over-achieve...)


Ed always tries to reach his goal, and he achieves what he sets his mind too.
I don't know if he tries, but he seems quite a bit like an over-achiever to me...
Not that that's always a bad thing.

Also, I think Fullmetal Alchemist may be based on the 'Napoleon and Gentle Giant' formula plot often used in television.
This often consists of a large, sentimental character (as in Alphonse), who is not always, but often dim-witted, and a short, more tempermental character, often more clever and cunning, "the brains of the outfit", who likes to be the one in charge, someone sort of hot headed.

This can be found in a number of cartoons and television shows worldwide, and I think Arakawa might have used it in her plot.
And although Al can be oblivious at times, he is by no means unintelligent or stupid.
That's why I'm referring to 'based'.

Of course, thats stated the obvious.
Fushi
QUOTE(Funderful @ Oct 19 2006, 04:41 PM) [snapback]462355[/snapback]

QUOTE
However, about Ed having a Napoleon Complex....I would say most definitely. The description of the complex fits Ed very well. (Although I'm not quite sure if he feels a need to over-achieve...)


Ed always tries to reach his goal, and he achieves what he sets his mind too.
I don't know if he tries, but he seems quite a bit like an over-achiever to me...
Not that that's always a bad thing.

Eh, I have difficulties identifying over-achievers in the first place. I never completely understood the definition of an over-achiever. XD
Funderful
Well, I'm glad you guys find this interesting.
>_< Thought arousing!

Fushigi, I'm From Canadia, Too, Eh? tongue.gif

I'd say that if Ed suffers from the Napoleon Complex, it would be to an extent.
He shares most of the symptoms.
Popogeejo
QUOTE
However, about Ed having a Napoleon Complex....I would say most definitely. The description of the complex fits Ed very well. (Although I'm not quite sure if he feels a need to over-achieve...)


Agreed. WHile he does make greater achivments than his peers that doesn't seem to concern him.
Funderful
I agree.
As I said, he does 'over-achieve' at times, but is not trying to.
It's not on purpose.
But, upon inspection of the first message, If I had to draw the conclusion now...
I'd say it's something Ed has.
Mustang_93
Wow im surprised it took less than 12 hours to reach a verdict! But do Napoleon Comlexes start in childhood or was it just sprung out of his character. Arakawa may have done this purpously or maybe Ed was inspired by someone she knew. But also if he never over acheved most of the things he did wouldn't of happened.
Funderful
Feh, That's my verdict. You can stew on it for a while.
Change my mind.
Carnal Malefactor
Ed != megalomaniac

therefore

Ed != Napoleon.

E.O.T.
The New Fullmetal Alchemist
A very good theory and argument - personally I think that Arakawa "intentionally" had Edward be short so that he *could* act the way that he did - a character and story are nothing if you can't give them personalities and reasons for them to act the way that they do... Any writer worth their salt has at least a basic understanding of the human psyche, or at least they should - it adds more to their work to be able to understand the process of thought...
Funderful
Hm. Well Put, The New FMA.
Very well put.
Tombow
QUOTE(The New Fullmetal Alchemist @ Oct 19 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]462502[/snapback]
A very good theory and argument - personally I think that Arakawa "intentionally" had Edward be short so that he *could* act the way that he did - a character and story are nothing if you can't give them personalities and reasons for them to act the way that they do... Any writer worth their salt has at least a basic understanding of the human psyche, or at least they should - it adds more to their work to be able to understand the process of thought...
I agree!! Excellent post, The New Fullmetal Alchemist!! smile.gif


Just a minor question to Funderful: About the two quotes in the first post:
QUOTE
In the fields of psychology and psychoanalysis, Napoleon complex (or Napoleon syndrome) is a colloquial term used to describe a type of inferiority complex suffered by people who are short.
QUOTE
Compensatory behavior exhibited by those with a Napoleon complex may also include being overly aggressive or argumentative and a need to over-achieve, which all serve to give the person a sense of greater self worth.

Where are they from?? biggrin.gif
Would you like to includes the "source" of these quotes on the first post?? smile.gif
Funderful
Pardon me.
Actually, this was a theory of mine before I went looking for quotes,
as I began to search the internet for them,
but finally gave into my despised enemy Wikipedia as a valuable resource.
-Nods-
Tombow
QUOTE(Funderful @ Oct 22 2006, 09:03 AM) [snapback]463199[/snapback]
Pardon me.
Actually, this was a theory of mine before I went looking for quotes,
as I began to search the internet for them,
but finally gave into my despised enemy Wikipedia as a valuable resource.
-Nods-
So, the quotes are from Wikipedia, and you agree with the quotes, correct?? biggrin.gif
In that case, maybe it's a good idea to include the source of the quotes (the links to where you got the quotes from) I think.
...So that we don't have to wonder where you got them from. biggrin.gif
Popogeejo
Having looked at the article, it sounds very unoffical. no cited article, no mention of any studies and just generally like something some psych students made up to help pass a test.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Complex_(band)
Inspertation for a fake phycosis perhaps?
Tombow
Actually, I like the notion!! laugh.gif
(It may not be true, but it's interesing!!)
I mean, it's a fresh way of looking at Ed's personality!! biggrin.gif
Funderful
Actually, Mabye I don't follow you, but I've heard of the Napoleon Complex before.
I didn't just 'find' it on wiki.
I searched it, because, as I said, it was a theory of mine.
I typed it in and quoted it to give forum members a better view on it...
I wasn't like, "I think I'll search for random physcosis. Hey! This one sounds like Ed!"
No. I heard of the Napoleon Complex, and was going to submit my theory as a topic, but I thought quoting from an article would give more depth to the subject.
Popogeejo
QUOTE
I wasn't like, "I think I'll search for random physcosis. Hey! This one sounds like Ed!"


No one said that...
Kivrin
Hrrmmm... I'm not quite sure I would characterize Ed as having a Napoleon Complex IMHO. Certainly, he is sensitive about his height and over-reacts in that respect, but I don't think that necessarily goes hand-in-hand with an inferiority complex. And maybe I need to re-watch/re-read, but concerns about his height did not seem to me to inform his motivations or his goals. He sets his goals and works toward accomplishing them. I think that just makes him extremely focused. Can't recall seeing too many excesses although that episode with his trying to obliterate Mustang with that giant cannon does come to mind! But then Mustang's ostensible arrogance might drive anyone to extremes! In general, Ed's self-worth never seemed to be an issue. He falters only when he considers that he has failed Al.

To make Ed small of stature was definitely a wonderful device and offers many wonderful opportunities for comedy. And otherwise, Ed would be too perfect! He'd've been like Mei-Chan's romanticized Edward! tongue.gif

Is he impulsive? Yup. Choleric? Definitely. Passionate? Mm-hmm. But does Ed have a Napoleon Complex? I don't think so, although I'm open to being convinced!
Funderful

He can be hotheaded, and is angered quite easily.
Just because he doesn't match EVERYTHING perfectly too the tee,
that doesn't mean he does not have it.
I think he might be easily angered and such as mentioned in previous posts because he
has the Napoleon Complex.
I mean, that's not a bad thing!
I love him having it, and his freakouts and sarcasm!
It's just like if you had a major disease, and you shared most of the symptoms...
The doctor wouldn't overlook you because you were missing one.
I'm just saying, If Arakawa made him tall, there's a possibly he would be a lot more,
erm... Yeah, Kivrin, like Mei's vision of Ed.
Which would be bad. Very bad.

On a smaller note, It might just be advancement into maturity, but I noticed as Ed got older (and taller), his outburst became more subtle. Meh.
It probably is. But still.
Popogeejo
QUOTE
I think he might be easily angered and such as mentioned in previous posts because he has the Napoleon Complex.


Or it could be for comedic purposes....

QUOTE
On a smaller note, It might just be advancement into maturity, but I noticed as Ed got older (and taller), his outburst became more subtle.


Sounds more like puberty and immaturity than a psycosis then.
Funderful
QUOTE
Or it could be for comedic purposes....


Well, Yeah.
But it still fits in the description.
Doesn't mean it can't be funny.
Either way, it wouldn't change a thing...
If he had the Napoleon complex or not,
it wouldn't make his outbursts any different.

QUOTE
Sounds more like puberty and immaturity than a psycosis then.


He started going through puberty pretty early then.
I don't agree with that.
Tombow
QUOTE(Funderful @ Oct 22 2006, 02:29 PM) [snapback]463296[/snapback]
Actually, Mabye I don't follow you, but I've heard of the Napoleon Complex before.
I didn't just 'find' it on wiki.
I searched it, because, as I said, it was a theory of mine.
I typed it in and quoted it to give forum members a better view on it...
I wasn't like, "I think I'll search for random physcosis. Hey! This one sounds like Ed!"
No. I heard of the Napoleon Complex, and was going to submit my theory as a topic, but I thought quoting from an article would give more depth to the subject.
Ok, so they are from Wiki article, right??

All I'm saying is, in that case, I think its probably more informative if include the links to the source article, or at least include the info on where you quoted them from.
That's all. smile.gif
Popogeejo
QUOTE
He started going through puberty pretty early then.
I don't agree with that.


It's perfectly logical, plus the immaturity is even more viable.
5 year olds over react, pre teens over react and youn teens over react. Seems like normal behavior to me.
Mustang_93
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Oct 22 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]463340[/snapback]

QUOTE
He started going through puberty pretty early then.
I don't agree with that.


It's perfectly logical, plus the immaturity is even more viable.
5 year olds over react, pre teens over react and youn teens over react. Seems like normal behavior to me.

You are probably right Popo. If you watch the movie he doesn't flip out like he used to (and he finally blushes when Winry hugs him).
Funderful
Tombow; Thank you, I will add my source next time a quote.

Popo; I already said that. If you read my note, I pointed out that it might have just been Edward Advancing into maturity, and I also put that that's probably what it was.
I wasn't saying that growing to an average height was why he became calmer, infact, I just said it might have been it. But, once again, at the end, I had pointed out it was most likely maturity.
So I'm not arguing with what I've already said; that's probably why he stopped the outbursts. But, in the movie, he isn't as small on the height ratio. So there's no way to tell.

Then again, i'm not sure if the Napoleon complex is an issue that just dissipears as you grow.
On the other hand, it might. The rage pent up inside from being looked down upon for lack of height. Either way, no matter what the outcome, he may or may not have had it at least at one time,
and It wouldn't really change my opinion on Ed. I mean, he fits the description.
If the shoe fits.
The New Fullmetal Alchemist
Wow... so, we went from the Napolean complex to raging hormones, eh? ^^ I'll read through your guys' arguments when I have more time - right now I'm relating Mary Shelley's Victor Frankenstein's monster to the nature vs. nurture debate for my AP English project... *gags*
Kivrin
QUOTE(Funderful @ Oct 22 2006, 03:08 PM) [snapback]463322[/snapback]

He can be hotheaded, and is angered quite easily.
Just because he doesn't match EVERYTHING perfectly too the tee,
that doesn't mean he does not have it.
I think he might be easily angered and such as mentioned in previous posts because he
has the Napoleon Complex.
I mean, that's not a bad thing!
I love him having it, and his freakouts and sarcasm!
It's just like if you had a major disease, and you shared most of the symptoms...
The doctor wouldn't overlook you because you were missing one.
I'm just saying, If Arakawa made him tall, there's a possibly he would be a lot more,
erm... Yeah, Kivrin, like Mei's vision of Ed.
Which would be bad. Very bad.

On a smaller note, It might just be advancement into maturity, but I noticed as Ed got older (and taller), his outburst became more subtle. Meh.
It probably is. But still.
And sometimes you can have a lot of the symptoms but still not have the disease, or have a different one altogether. <shrug> Generally, I associate describing someone as having a "Napoleon Complex" as a negative and those with it as impacting people around them in a negative way.

Trying to psychoanalyse a fictional character is quite the challenge, especially since consistency is difficult when you have different writers working on the same character (from episode to episode, from series to movie, from manga to anime)! Because I never got the impression that his height made him feel inferior or otherwise doubt his self-worth in any way or that his actions/achievements were excessive or connected to feeling inferior, I can't quite see that he's got N.C.

But who knows? Maybe Arakawa will use it to describe Ed in a future interview or publication and that will settle all doubts.

(Incidentally, I'm an ex-pat from the Land of Canadia, too! <sigh> I miss Canadia ... and May West snack cakes!)
The New Fullmetal Alchemist
I could totally see it either way - in fact, I think it's both... I mean, look at how Ed acted when they were little - he was always like that! I think he's a bit of an NCer, but it got "worse" as he got older... wink.gif
Ailuro
I realize this really has nothing to do with the topic, but Napolean was actually average height for a male of his race back then. tongue.gif I'll leave now.
Funderful
Actually, Napoleon, although small by today's standards, WAS of average height.
You're right.
But still, the Napoleon complex is as it stands.
Ed take things out and can be overly aggressive towards people,
you know, kind of grumpy, but that doesn't mean he's always like that...
Anyway, I guess we'd never know unless we asked Arakawa ourselves.
I find his outbursts more common in the manga too...
Bones made he more reserved in my opinion.
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