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Fullmetal Alchemist Discussion Board > General Discussions > Open Talk > Debate District
000_neji
If you have any grandparents then,you'll be concern about this topic...This was originally debated in our school and I wanted to see your opinion about this issue. Nowadays,old ones are separated from their own family...I'll go for family. Family holds the responsibility...
DantElric
I'll go with family. They took care of you. Now it's time to return the favor. biggrin.gif
Popogeejo
Meh, the UK has more old folk than we can afford. I blame the charites giving the negeclted/lonely one blackets during the winter to up their chance of not freezing.

As for who will supprot them:
The family is first choice but if Oldie McOldfolk are a burden or upset the family dynamics then maybe the Old folk should go into a Home/retirement village. Make sure it's well run by carers and they don't use their charges as Mops or some such abuse.
It'll be expensive though which is a drain on the family.
Chiyo
This subject can depend a lot of where you come from and your core beliefs.

For instance our tutor reminds us that the Chinese (for example) were a nation that treasured their elderly. The British do not care for our elderly folk half as much. Harsh as the words may be they are to an extent true.

I would prefer my Grandparents go to a nice home. Even if they came to live with me I would have to go to work so they would be alone in the day. I am willing to pay for their care if I can afford it, but for now it's not any concern of mine. They are still fairly young.
Envy's lil' miniskirt
QUOTE(popogeejo @ Oct 6 2006, 10:04 AM) [snapback]455765[/snapback]

As for who will supprot them:
The family is first choice but if Oldie McOldfolk are a burden or upset the family dynamics then maybe the Old folk should go into a Home/retirement village. Make sure it's well run by carers and they don't use their charges as Mops or some such abuse.
It'll be expensive though which is a drain on the family.

I think that's bullshit.

The older generation spent their whole life working, paying taxes and oftentimes raising the next generation only to beshit on in most cases by the ingrates they raised. When they were young and raising children these children were an emotional and financial drain on them and it's selfish to just pack them up and send them to a nursing home when they become inconvenient.

True, just because someone is eldery doesn't mean they will be thankful that their family took them in and is taking care of them and can be a pain in the ass and cause unrest in the family but in alot of cases I've heard of it's because of the families own selfishness that they ship off gradma or grampa to the nearest state run facilty to rot.
mei_tenshi
QUOTE(Chiyo @ Oct 6 2006, 02:16 PM) [snapback]455848[/snapback]
For instance our tutor reminds us that the Chinese (for example) were a nation that treasured their elderly.
All thanks to Confucius. That dude had a solid head on his shoulders.

My grandfathers passed away before I was born, but I remember spending most of my early childhood playing games with my grandmothers. My parents were at work most of the day, so when I wasn't at school, it was my dad's mom who took care of me and my sister. So it's not as though grandparents aren't contributing to the family unit--of course, this isn't always true. There comes a point where they can't take care of themselves, but like others have already said: it's the young 'uns turn to pick up on the care-giving. At the very least, consider what it took for your mother to give birth to you, or your grandmothers to give birth to your parents. (Not conception, but that notoriously painful process that occurs after many months of carrying a living watermelon in her abdomen.)
Popogeejo
QUOTE
I think that's bullshit.

The older generation spent their whole life working, paying taxes and oftentimes raising the next generation only to beshit on in most cases by the ingrates they raised.
When they were young and raising children these children were an emotional and financial drain on them and it's selfish to just pack them up and send them to a nursing home when they become inconvenient.


What if the "Olides" don't want to live the family? I wouldn't force my Mum to go into a home but I know she wouldn't want to crowd me when I've moved out and in the end it should be down to her what she does. if shes to feeble to care for ehrself than I'll let live with me and whatever family I have but I won't force her.

QUOTE
True, just because someone is eldery doesn't mean they will be thankful that their family took them in and is taking care of them and can be a pain in the ass and cause unrest in the family but in alot of cases I've heard of it's because of the families own selfishness that they ship off gradma or grampa to the nearest state run facilty to rot.


Hence why I explicity said sending then to good homes.

Maybe I sounded insensitive with the "Oldie McOldfolk" remark but that was more taking the piss of the title of this thread. Really,"Oldies"? Show some respect.
000_neji
QUOTE
Maybe I sounded insensitive with the "Oldie McOldfolk" remark but that was more taking the piss of the title of this thread. Really,"Oldies"? Show some respect.




Then let the mods change the title of the topic if you wanted. It's not a problem anyway...I respect the old ones. If it weren't for them,we wouldn't exist right now,whether we like it or not...It is still the family who will hold the responsibility but if they're too busy,is it right to put them in an institution?
Le Monkey
QUOTE(000_neji @ Oct 9 2006, 11:01 AM) [snapback]457282[/snapback]

but if they're too busy,is it right to put them in an institution?


From My exsperience of this, (I have had 2 grandparents go into homes before they died)
My first one, (My Grandma) was ill, she stayed at home with her husband for aslong as was posible. She went into a care home where she was visited every day by my Grandad and the family (Wich was Mummy, My sister and myself) as often as we could. Being 3 hours away from them didnt help. We could have braught them to live with us but our house was an old welsh farmhouse, Stone everything, high stairs. So it wasnt an option to do that.
Second was my Grandad, he lived on his own after my grandma passed as he wanted to be near her grave. After a year he couldnt live on his own anymore. Again we would have offered for him to come and live with us, but the way he was he would always argue and upset mummy, so she would be crying after most conversations with him. So he came down, and went to live in a care home, in the same town as where we were living. My mum went to work in the care home to help pay for it and to see him more often. This made him happy that he would see us all more often, (I would go down every day and see him). This caused his relation ship with my mum to improve greatly so well in fact that they we always happy together wich was good. Unfortunately so soon after he got to the state of being happy he suffered from a stroke and died soon after. I only saw him once before he died.... sad.gif
My Other set of grandparents I still have my Grampa alive, my Granny died about a week after my Grandad. She was living at home with my granmpa. She was well taken care of by my Grampa and my auntie and her family. We lived so far away so it was implausable for anything other then regular visits.
My Grampa is now sharing a small mansion with my Auntie and her family. He is still independant, but also dosnt have to drive to see him Daughter and some of his grandchildren.
My dad and I (I now live with him) visit when we can but he is snowwed under atm with work and the house next door (Re developing it) that we havnt been in 5 weeks. We aim to see him atleast once a month.
Well thats my bit. ^^
Molecular Alchemist
Yeah, i think that us kids should take care of our parents when they get older....i have an aunt in a nursing home (due to some heath issues)...and they treat her like crap....her kids are pretty sh*tty too. But, in the end, it comes down to the fact that they took care of you for all your life...and they were always there for you, so you kinda have to..its a duty, lol


Of course, that doesnt mean that i tell my parents that. I tell them that if they dont watch out, they are going into a retirement home the first chance i get. Somehow, after i say that, they get pissed and my sis and i are the only ones laughing... laugh.gif
Le Monkey
QUOTE(Molecular Alchemist @ Oct 15 2006, 12:39 AM) [snapback]459854[/snapback]

Of course, that doesnt mean that i tell my parents that. I tell them that if they dont watch out, they are going into a retirement home the first chance i get. Somehow, after i say that, they get pissed and my sis and i are the only ones laughing... laugh.gif


My mum tells me and my sis to ship her off to a home as soon as we can, tongue.gif
She knows we wouldnt, ^^
beyondredemption
Depends. Some nursing homes are really bad, and some family's abuse thier elderly. I'd say that it would depend on the mental health of the elder in particular, and any wishes that they may have made known beforehand. After all, some of the elderly suffer from Alheimers, and other mental health problems, although many maintain exellent mental health well into 80's and 90's, and may only need some help with certain things. My grandmother is coming up on her eightiest birthday, and is in exellent health. She lives alone, but may decide to choose assisted living if her arthiritus gets any worse.
Also, don't forget assisted living in your options.
000_neji
You're all right,maybe it is the younger ones that lack care of them so they're sent to institutions...
Stealth
One word, EUTHANASIA.
I think that we can learn alot from them but once they pass a point were they cant even remember there son or are too sick.

I have a heart.
Chiyo
QUOTE(The_Stealth_Alchemist @ Dec 10 2006, 11:35 AM) [snapback]482908[/snapback]
One word, EUTHANASIA.
I think that we can learn alot from them but once they pass a point were they cant even remember there son or are too sick.

I have a heart.


You are talking as if all old people should just be put of their misery...regardless of health. Not all of them loose their marbles...and even if they do does that give us the right to kill them?
Stealth
Yes, I thnik that they could at least die with dignity. Where is the dignity of having someone wipe your ass?
Chiyo
Where is the dignity in being killed because you aren't wanted?
Stealth
So do you want someone to wipe your ass? How about getting someone to dress you? is that how you want people to see you?
Chiyo
Oh I can see it now, 'Hey grandma, people have to help dress you...I find that degrading...and it doesn't matter if you do as I want you dead'

If I wish to live...I'm going to damn well live, not have someone dictate to me if I live or die because they don't want to look after me. Who's to say I will even get to the stage I can no longer dress myself? You assume all old people are completely helpless. Any by your theory, why should we be cleaning up after children when they mess themselves?

People get paid to do that job...most find it worth while.
Stealth

You say people find the job worth wile, ok so how do you think they felt when my nanna spent the last 7 years of her life being alive but not liveing? Not all of them get to be that bad but for the ones who do.......We had to even stop my little sister from seeing her she was so sick, and it happens more then you think. So what is the best thing to do for these people then? After you have seen someone suffer like that and you know that they have already live the best years of their live and you know that they cant get better what should we do then?
Chiyo
Then bloody well say what you mean. You were talking as if ALL old people will fall into that state and so all should just be killed. Regression and illness do not automatically happen when someone turns old. Of course if someone is suffering they should be allowed to pass away with dignity...but just as with anything...it's their choice if they can make it.
Stealth
Ok then, but what do you suggest should happen if they cant make a choice for them self.
Chiyo
Then that is up to the family, but usually those who regress to that state know its coming and some have to decide if they live or die before they end up in that state. If they know the person in question wouldn't want to live that way then they should let them go. However in saying that some families would then use that power to get rid of a family member they were sick of caring/paying for.

But we've gone off topic, we are talking about the general elderly, euthanasia is a whole other topic.
000_neji
Old ones should be treated nicely becuase they're still humans like us...its so unfair that they took care of our parents but they will not receive any care afterwards so i'll stick to my vote that Old ones should be cared by their own families...
Amol
Like all say Old people should be treated kindly and cared by us !

But its the old people today who want to stay aways from their families and grandchildren , I've seen many such cases, I dont agree to the fact that their children are responsible for the ill treatment and ......... !

Old people in my eyes are equally responsible for their conditions , they make it that way.

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